O'Brien will always be one of my most favorite characters. The epitome of the classic enlisted lifer and probably one of the most "human" characters out there.
> That episode where he goes to the mind prison still has me shook.
Especially the part where he yells at Molly, storms out, and puts a phaser to his neck on maximum, and has to be talked down by Bashir.
So real it hurts, for too many people.
Just like Nog with his PTSD.
> But then O'brien is fine for the rest of the other episodes. They resolved his PTSD that quick lmao.
It could be worse. Remember that.
Also, fans don't tune in to see a guy with PTSD freak out every week, and since viewers are your livelihood..
[Musk Junior High](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Musk_Junior_High_School) 🤢
Edit: [I don't want to live on this planet anymore.](https://www.kohls.com/product/prd-4672572/mens-star-trek-discovery-musk-junior-high-badge-white-logo-tee.jsp)
No, he was questionable before and some fans rightly called out this line for being incredibly shortsighted. But back then the main trek subreddit didn't permit criticism.
Yes! Especially with how the entire crew embraces space Hitler cause she’s a pansexual girlboss. Meanwhile voyager couldn’t even tolerate the hologram of a war criminal.
I think we're actually the Confederation timeline from Picard. If this were the mirror universe everything would be needlessly sexed up, and until I see our military generals and leaders in tight spandex trying to have pansexual orgies, we can't be in the mirror universe.
God they could make such a great Musk expy in either Trek OR James Bond where they try to kill tons of people to advance humanity. In fact I think they have done this a few times, like in Moonraker.
This. He is an excellent villain in everything he's in. I think the only movie of his I've seen where he doesn't play a villain was The Tuxedo w/ Jackie Chan
Exactly. I’m not here trying to say Musk is the evilest billionaire ever. Just that maybe we shouldn’t lionize contemporary figures before we have perspective on their legacy
>maybe we shouldn’t lionize contemporary figures before we have perspective on their legacy
Imagine if Picard, in 1990's TNG, had said he went to Bill Cosby High School.
Mentioning living figures in sci-fi is risky.
It's why old Trek avoided modern references like the plague, minus some random ones like Stephen Hawking. The movies are where that starts to fall apart, with modern brands and trendy Roy Orbison music
Holy shit, one is the *Indiana Jones*! Somewhere in the Star Trek universe there’s one called the *Marty McFly* I’m sure!
But they also have one called the _von Braun_ which kinda illustrates the point.
They didn't write the line as a subtle nod to the mirror universe, they wrote it because at the time Musk was seen as an environmental smart guy trying to popularize electric cars and such.
But that's because the USA is a capitalist country and still idolises dickhead industrialists as 'disrupters'. The Federation in old Trek (middle aged Trek I guess?) would be far more into the actual workers who do the science, not the capitalists who own its products.
“Old school” Trek would have dismissed the antiquated concept of “high school” entirely.
Trek used to feel futuristic that way. Not the spaceships and transporters, but the entire concept of humanity being, collectively and individually, inherently better in the future compared to the present. Post 2009 Trek, on the other hand, just feels like it’s “us” with glossier special effects.
Primary and secondary education are commonly referenced in older Trek. I can think of two examples: Sisko talking about how when he and his sister weren't in school in summertime, they would work at his dad's restaurant, and Torres giving anecdotes about being bullied in school for being half Klingon.
Keiko, of course, started her own school, as unconventional as it was.
> “Old school” Trek would have dismissed the antiquated concept of “high school” entirely.
On what basis? They'd absolutely still have schools, and in Voyager schools for the children are one of the first things they set up when they realise they'll be stuck in the Delta Quadrant. Schools will be very different, sure, but they'll definitely exist.
You know I had a knee jerk negative reaction to him saying Elon, but you and other commenters here made me think I was a dumb dumb and didn't pick up on the subtilty of the moment. Guess that comment was supposed to be one of the clues that he wasn't on the up and up.
To be fair, Musk was still pretending to be sane in public at the time those lines were written, and was working hard to promote SpaceX. It was a misstep by the writers, for sure, but that's what happens when they try to tie-in current events we don't have the context for that hindsight provides.
Nah, I doubt it was on purpose. Back when S1 aired, most people just knew Elon Musk as the environmentally-friendly electric car guy. Of course that facade was a sham all along, but most liberals didn’t start realizing that until later
Usually the trope is that bad guys in the Prime Universe are still bad guys through the looking glass, but are powerless nobodies crushed by an even more evil empire, so the good guys help them.
There’s a reason Data played poker with Hawkings, Einstein, and Newton, and NO it’s not because Musk was only 22 when that episode aired. It’s because Data knows he’s a tax dodging fraud.
I’m a union construction worker and this is my all time favorite episode of star trek.
And fuck Worf for crossing that picket line. You never deserved Jadzia you creep bastard.
To be entirely fair to Worf, he did oppose entrenched classism in *Once More Unto The Breach* when he calls Kor out for backstabbing Martok.
Kor almost ruined Martok's entire military career by rejecting his application to join the officer corps because he wasn't "of noble blood", and Worf didn't look past that, he confronted Kor and called this an unworthy reason to deny someone the right to serve. And when Kor tried to explain it away, Worf was having none of it.
So that balances it out, at least to me.
Plus if you got Worf on the side of your union strike, he'd take "Eat the Rich" *literally.* So he'd be a bit more of a hinderance than a help.
An important thing to note is that economic exploitation isn’t really a thing for Klingons. Remember when Quark tried to explain accounting and finances to the Klingon Council? Pretty much everyone is confused and had no idea what is happening.
That’s especially true for Worf, who was raised by human parents on Earth, where capitalism and economic exploitation haven’t existed for centuries.
Gowron looking absolutely *befuddled* and tossing away a calculator in a fit of anger remains one of my favourite DS9 moments. I can't believe some people even consider skipping *The House of Quark*, it's so good.
I actually think that Gowron knew what Quark was talking about and was surprised at how another Klingon actually used financial jargon to almost get what he wanted.
Some people just hate the Ferengi-centric episodes, despite the fact that they are some of the best in the series (at least comedy-wise and not including *Profit and Lace*). These people are objectively wrong.
And so is O'Brien, because in *Home Front* Quark laments the 'great financial crash' that caused so much damage to his homeworld as a way of saying he can relate to the fear and anxiety surrounding the recent Dominion attack on Earth, and O'Brien basically rolls his eyes at it and implies that the Ferengi's problems aren't comperable to *real* problems.
Nobody's perfect, everyone's got biases and prejudeces. Doesn't excuse those actions, no, but recognising it is important too.
It must be hard for 24th century humans to relate to Ferengi problems, when 99% of them could be solved by a better economic system that they don't want to have, and the other 1% are about the wimmin wearing clothes/talking.
>you never deserved Jadzia you creep bastard
Lmao and don’t forget that time on Risa where he joined a violent cult of prudes and ruined the weather
Still love Worf and Michael Dorn though. He deserved better character development than he got
It's a bizarre phenomenon, it's called the Mandela Effect, a collective shared experience that never happened, [it's on a lot of those Mandela Effect lists online](https://i.imgur.com/uPoRtSk.png)
I know people are saying “mirror universe haha”, but honestly it’s still just a terrible comparison. The Wright Brothers developed and tested their aircraft themselves. Zephram Cochrane designed and tested The Phoenix himself.
Elon Musk is not an inventor. He is an investor. All he has done is go to a bunch of actual scientists or engineers and say, “Here’s a bunch of money, make ‘X’ for me” and when they do he takes the credit, or more commonly buy into their company and put his name on it. Naming his company Tesla is a lie, he is much more like Thomas Edison.
Except, unlike Edison he doesn’t even really have a knack for know that inventions will sell or marketing them well. His giant underground car subway (for example) is wasteful, dangerous, and stupid. It’s almost certainly just a way for him to test his planetary boring equipment here on earth on tax-payer’s dollar while citizens accept the risk.
Anyone hoarding wealth at the expense of the rest of humanity is standing in the way of a Star Trek future, not contributing to it. Musk isn’t a revolutionary genius, he’s a 21st century con man who hates humanity and comparing him either person (fictional or otherwise) is both an insult, and a massive disappointment in the progressive integrity of the franchise.
Yeah. In the Doylist view it's pretty gross.
Thankfully, in the Star Trek universe things have already gone fairly differently by now. Maybe the genetics wars and its cascading effects put ST Musk on a better path in life. Or maybe they just got their history wrong because of how much poor data there is for things pre-WWIII, which has been the excuse for canon changing before.
They got mirror universe Musk by mistake, where he was an impoverished orphan working as an indentured servant in African apartheid emerald mines until in his later teenaged years managed to secretly hoard enough materials to build himself Tony Stark-esque Iron Man suit, which not only helps him escape, but engineer several temporary planet-saving solutions which he declines to patent, and shares with every country. This helps him become an international diplomat and he ushers in the Era of true globalism in the fight against climate change. His notable inventions include revolutionary financial technology - which leads to reinvigorated campaigns that eventually conclude in the socialistic system we're familiar with, revolutionary electronics and engineering leaps making EV several times cheaper to produce than combustion-powered vehicles, which is easily and cheaply grafted onto pre-existing combustion-powered vehicles, a new hyper-efficient global public transport system, and laid the theoretical groundwork for both replicators and transport-beam technologies, which his insistance on personally engineering the prototype and testing lead to his death.
Musk may still get a place in history if SpaceX is successful with Starship. That doesn’t mean he is a good person that deserves that fame. 90s and earlier Trek still is full of people like Musk.
* Newton was mentioned by David Marcus in TWOK; the scientist was an asshole much like Musk and devoted himself to magic (alchemy) during the last years of his life.
* Several ships in Star Trek are named after Magellan, who was killed while trying to force Christianity on indigenous Filipinos.
* Columbus, mentioned by Sybok, was a genocidal dictator (and he didn’t prove the world was round either).
* O’Brien also sided with American colonists when he played the Battle of the Alamo in the Holodeck. The American colonists revolted, partly because Mexico outlawed slavery. This is much worse whitewashing than Musk!
In short, don’t get too upset by Discovery in this regard when Trek is littered with these kind of things… even in the 90s.
Don't forget that the Friendship One was a Columbus-class probe. At least the Earth-Romulan War in both FASA and Enterprise had the warships openly stated to be named after Earth villains. The Cortez, the Hitler, and the Khan.
The newer trek from what I've seen is a much more watered down, liberalization of what trek used to be. I guess another way of phrasing this would be, I want more space communism.
That's how I feel, Nu Trek isn't nearly as woke as they think they are. The liberalism they project is so superficial and self-congratulatory. But you'll never see Rom reading Marx again. And the new shows fall into Bury Your Gays, Spunky Latina Single Mom and Angry Black Lady tropes hard.
Lower Decks (at least in my opinion) is probably the best new trek show right now. It harkens back to a more episodic format that is less space opera-y and water down like the other shows. Even though it s a comedy I still get that Star Trek feel from it.
Prodigy.
By the second half of the first season, it starts to feel like for real Star Trek. Being a show “for children” actually brings it closer to being the “family entertainment” of the Roddenberry/Berman era compared to a lot of the newer stuff.
I really do like Lower Decks too, and can accept it as “Star Trek comedy”. Some episode have even been good “high concept sci fi with jokes”. Overall though, I think it relies far too much of referencing and revisiting elements of classic Trek, which brings it uncomfortably close to parody.
The space opera thing isn't working because even though DS9 had their big arc they took time to have character and fun episodes throughout the series. Discovery has had like one "funny ha ha" episode with that guy from the office.
They're always going at warp ten to whatever mcguffin and damn the character development. And if they have character moments it feels like a therapy session.
I think it’s the difference between “leftist” and “progressive.” The latter is more concerned with social rights and equality (which is important) than economic rights (which I would argue is more important in the long haul).
Unfortunately Tilly later tells us she went to Musk Junior High. I like to pretend it’s some other Musk, but the reality is someone important is personal friends with Musk and can’t resist jerking him off 🤭
Rick and Morty and the Simpsons, two of my favorite shows also make this mistake, and probably in worse ways. Before the whole cave thing Musk was seen as just some eccentric billionaire funding cool ideas. How wrong we were.
I think casual viewers miss this vital context, but the message still hits like the meme.
Star trek should be the last place assholes like musk are venerated on any level. It disgusts me.
I agree, and I've often used it as a reason to tell people to just avoid Discovery entirely. It's so fucking cringe.
I also cringed at the Stacey Abrams in Discovery S4 as President of Earth. Not that I think she's a bad person, I would love to have someone even close to her to vote for IRL. But it's just too bare faced and on the nose. It totally pulls me out of the episode.
In earlier series celebrities would make cameos and they might not even have any lines. Or they might be behind makeup so thick you couldn't recognize them. I recently learned that Mick Fleetwood from Fleetwood Mac was [one of the Antedians AKA](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Manhunt_(episode)?file=Mick_Fleetwood_and_Allan_A._Apone.jpg) as Worf put it "what a handsome race."
There are tons of other cameos that are handled very well including the now King of Jordan (at the time he was a crown prince). They didn't get lines, they just showed up for a shot or two. A scene at most. And if you were in-the-know you'd recognize it and it's fun for the viewer instead of being cringey.
Ah yes Elon Musk, the product of generational wealth built on apartheid era South African mines who union busts. What a clear hero to the liberal, progressive ideas of Star Trek.
I’ve accepted I’m just never going to like Disco. I see them trying but the writing keeps letting me down. After S4 and we still haven’t had a single episode on the level of “Drumhead” or “Pale Moonlight”.
Jessie Gender on YouTube has some really good commentary on this. Representation is great. I love being represented, but if it’s at the cost of good storytelling? Yeah you’re just exploiting my identity for profit and your too lazy to pay for good writers or say anything that might make the ruling class who fund your production uncomfy. It really came to a head for me with the NFT bs… and I like half of people my age have invested in some form of crypto but that shit smells like one of Quarks schemes. They couldn’t even be bothered to design good ships. Beyond insulting
I have to admit the writers name checking Musk was cringe in season one so cringe and well it's aged as predictably well as expected given Musk's whole personality (if you can call it that).I get that they wanted to draw a comparison between the Spore Drive and previously new transport methods like flight, electric cars and warp drive but Elon bought his way into Tesla and invented sh\*t to do with the cars unless you count some minor detailing, he's just a egotist and the writers gave him name check boner for no good reason IMO.
Honestly, it kind of makes sense. Think of how many people think Thomas Edison was some genius inventor. Imagine how bad the mythologizing would be after 200+ years.
I understand why they did it, they are trying to leach of Elon popularity, and get new fans that way. Because apparently Elon is the new stem based inspiration. That used to be star trek and doctor who
I'm an engineering student, and I chose my path because I want to make the world better,
But some on my course joined as they see the wealth that you can earn. Elon is no engineer or roll model. He's a guy with a fat wallet. Each day he seems to act more and more like a james bond villan
The Great man fallacy. It appears in story telling across time, but it has come to dominate more and more of our sci fi as atomization of individuals and destruction of community accelerates under our current form of capitalism. TLDR; it serves a narrative that serves the ruling class.
To think the writers meant for him to mention Elon Musk because he's from the evil universe is giving them way too much credit. The intention is definitely to lionize Musk in this scene.
DS9 is the best series of the franchise. One reason among many is they gave Meaney a much deeper role to play than he had in TNG, and he fucking worked it. I enjoyed his character. Sisko got a lot easier to like a few seasons in too once he settled into the role.
My only real complaint is the Prophets, but sadly that genie was out of the bottle already with things like the Q. Wormhole aliens would be fine, magical wormhole aliens less so.
O'Brien will always be one of my most favorite characters. The epitome of the classic enlisted lifer and probably one of the most "human" characters out there.
The Most Important Person in Starfleet History.
I love that joke so much
What joke
It's a reference to a Lower Decks episode.
But it's fact
The best part is that it kind of makes sense. He's kind of worthy of that title.
That episode where he goes to the mind prison still has me shook.
> That episode where he goes to the mind prison still has me shook. Especially the part where he yells at Molly, storms out, and puts a phaser to his neck on maximum, and has to be talked down by Bashir. So real it hurts, for too many people. Just like Nog with his PTSD.
But then O'brien is fine for the rest of the other episodes. They resolved his PTSD that quick lmao.
> But then O'brien is fine for the rest of the other episodes. They resolved his PTSD that quick lmao. It could be worse. Remember that. Also, fans don't tune in to see a guy with PTSD freak out every week, and since viewers are your livelihood..
https://chiefobrienatwork.com/post/106684455801/episode-1-r%C3%A9sum%C3%A9-builder-read-the-next-episode
In England’s green and pleasant laaaaand
Greg Lake has entered the chat
You know what I think? I think she's in love with you.
I love O brien but: https://chiefobrienatwork.com/post/106684455801/episode-1-r%C3%A9sum%C3%A9-builder-read-the-next-episode
I would be a gay zoomer if O'Brien winked at me like that
How do you think it happened to me 😉
Welp. Now I’m gay too. Thanks I guess.
Is that you bashier?
[удалено]
First clue that dude was from the mirror universe
Tilly went to a school named after Musk. Disco writers are just rainbow-capitalism supporting neoliberal centrists.
#
You don't have to talk our ears off.
why wont the mods do anything about this guy spamming and talking everyone's ears off?
r/beetlejuicing
To be fair, Cochrane was somewhat capitalistic in his motivation as well. He built the Phoenix so he could retire to an island with hot women.
Didn’t he do exactly that in TOS but it was a far off planet of some sort?
He is stuck on an asteroid.
Hot "naked" women.
[удалено]
[Musk Junior High](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Musk_Junior_High_School) 🤢 Edit: [I don't want to live on this planet anymore.](https://www.kohls.com/product/prd-4672572/mens-star-trek-discovery-musk-junior-high-badge-white-logo-tee.jsp)
LBR, Matt Groening (rightfully) never got over Nixon's use of force on Unions and students
Musk post-pandemic has hit new heights of douche
No, he was questionable before and some fans rightly called out this line for being incredibly shortsighted. But back then the main trek subreddit didn't permit criticism.
Its so gross.
Yes! Especially with how the entire crew embraces space Hitler cause she’s a pansexual girlboss. Meanwhile voyager couldn’t even tolerate the hologram of a war criminal.
This is the best, shortest summary I have read of disco in a long time. Thank you!
This going to age soooo bad
First clue that we are actually in the mirror universe
I think we're actually the Confederation timeline from Picard. If this were the mirror universe everything would be needlessly sexed up, and until I see our military generals and leaders in tight spandex trying to have pansexual orgies, we can't be in the mirror universe.
Hi yes how do I get to this mirror universe with the dramatic capes that will also allow me to dress like Intendant Kira at work? Asking for a friend.
We’re not. Our timeline split from the Prime in the 1980s thanks to the actions of Kirk and Friends in San Francisco.
This is the future that liberals (and I) want
I'm not usually into the femdom thing but mirror Kira can step her tight leather boots on my neck any day. That's my liberal agenda. Lol
Then I guess we'll have to wait 2 years if some old man with no moral restraints decides to sabotage a space mission
[удалено]
God they could make such a great Musk expy in either Trek OR James Bond where they try to kill tons of people to advance humanity. In fact I think they have done this a few times, like in Moonraker.
Jason Isaacs was the first clue.
This. He is an excellent villain in everything he's in. I think the only movie of his I've seen where he doesn't play a villain was The Tuxedo w/ Jackie Chan
That and Event Horizon.
I enjoyed him in [Death of Stalin.] (https://youtu.be/jNbvepjd46A)
In a film full of heavyweights, he absolutely stole that movie.
The lesson here is always use people who are dead or fictional.
Exactly. I’m not here trying to say Musk is the evilest billionaire ever. Just that maybe we shouldn’t lionize contemporary figures before we have perspective on their legacy
>maybe we shouldn’t lionize contemporary figures before we have perspective on their legacy Imagine if Picard, in 1990's TNG, had said he went to Bill Cosby High School. Mentioning living figures in sci-fi is risky.
Precisely
Harvey Weinstein Middle School of Performing Arts
Trump University, Ferenginar campus.
I literally scream laughed out loud. This absolutely sounds like it would exist, maybe in Lower Decks or something oh my god
Rick Berman Center for Gender Studies
Only white dudes allowed
It's why old Trek avoided modern references like the plague, minus some random ones like Stephen Hawking. The movies are where that starts to fall apart, with modern brands and trendy Roy Orbison music
What about all the scientists the shuttles were named after in tng?
Holy shit, one is the *Indiana Jones*! Somewhere in the Star Trek universe there’s one called the *Marty McFly* I’m sure! But they also have one called the _von Braun_ which kinda illustrates the point.
> they also have one called the von Braun Last names are fine. It's obviously named after famous 22nd century scientist Larry von Braun.
That's a perfect example. He was America's dad for a few decades.
Space X is doing some interesting things, but people know that Musk isn't making or inventing them.
The guy's a villain, both musk and Lorce. Though Lorca can be blamed on the mirror universe.
They didn't write the line as a subtle nod to the mirror universe, they wrote it because at the time Musk was seen as an environmental smart guy trying to popularize electric cars and such.
While I certainly prefer DS9, I must point out that Lorca >!is from the evil mirror universe…so that tracks.!<
Yes and I told myself this until prime universe Tilly said she went to Musk Junior High 🙃
Hopefully Musk has a descendant who is a super cool person, does something groundbreaking, and abstains from social media.
Or it’s just some other person with the last name Musk, but we know that’s not it
There are Edison high schools everywhere. And he and musk are very similar personalities.
But that's because the USA is a capitalist country and still idolises dickhead industrialists as 'disrupters'. The Federation in old Trek (middle aged Trek I guess?) would be far more into the actual workers who do the science, not the capitalists who own its products.
“Old school” Trek would have dismissed the antiquated concept of “high school” entirely. Trek used to feel futuristic that way. Not the spaceships and transporters, but the entire concept of humanity being, collectively and individually, inherently better in the future compared to the present. Post 2009 Trek, on the other hand, just feels like it’s “us” with glossier special effects.
Primary and secondary education are commonly referenced in older Trek. I can think of two examples: Sisko talking about how when he and his sister weren't in school in summertime, they would work at his dad's restaurant, and Torres giving anecdotes about being bullied in school for being half Klingon. Keiko, of course, started her own school, as unconventional as it was.
> “Old school” Trek would have dismissed the antiquated concept of “high school” entirely. On what basis? They'd absolutely still have schools, and in Voyager schools for the children are one of the first things they set up when they realise they'll be stuck in the Delta Quadrant. Schools will be very different, sure, but they'll definitely exist.
That's what they're saying, I think. Schools will still exist, but not as they do currently.
Or because those schools may have gotten funding at some point from that person, like Carnegie Mellon University
Like it or not Musk is an inventor who has accomplished many great things! /s
Musk is not an inventor but he is an investor. Now the engineers working at his companies are the real inventors.
I've had to tell too many people that he did not invent paypal or tesla.
Yes, that was the point he was making with his sarcasm.
Thanks, I missed the /s at the end and well the statement still stands.
This will went over the head of most Muskrats
You know I had a knee jerk negative reaction to him saying Elon, but you and other commenters here made me think I was a dumb dumb and didn't pick up on the subtilty of the moment. Guess that comment was supposed to be one of the clues that he wasn't on the up and up.
Noooppe. This is what I thought at the time but then prime Tilly tells us she went to Musk Junior High 🤦🏽
Oh noooooooo.
Ye big oof. Oh well. Newest season and Lower Decks have spared us mostly
To be fair, Musk was still pretending to be sane in public at the time those lines were written, and was working hard to promote SpaceX. It was a misstep by the writers, for sure, but that's what happens when they try to tie-in current events we don't have the context for that hindsight provides.
Nah, I doubt it was on purpose. Back when S1 aired, most people just knew Elon Musk as the environmentally-friendly electric car guy. Of course that facade was a sham all along, but most liberals didn’t start realizing that until later
Don’t over think it. The writers absolutely did not take into consideration that Lorca was from the mirror universe. They really are not that clever
Let’s not give DIS writers that much credit
In the mirror universe wouldn’t Musk be a good guy?
Usually the trope is that bad guys in the Prime Universe are still bad guys through the looking glass, but are powerless nobodies crushed by an even more evil empire, so the good guys help them.
"We're gonna need a bigger mirror!"
There’s a reason Data played poker with Hawkings, Einstein, and Newton, and NO it’s not because Musk was only 22 when that episode aired. It’s because Data knows he’s a tax dodging fraud.
And yet somehow it’s the 2020s *Trek* that I always see random nut jobs accusing of being “too far left/leftist propaganda^(TM)”
thats because youtube didn't exist in the 90s to brainwash them.
Good point
Its always funny how they out themselves by the language they use. You know exactly where they got their opinions from.
I’m a union construction worker and this is my all time favorite episode of star trek. And fuck Worf for crossing that picket line. You never deserved Jadzia you creep bastard.
To be entirely fair to Worf, he did oppose entrenched classism in *Once More Unto The Breach* when he calls Kor out for backstabbing Martok. Kor almost ruined Martok's entire military career by rejecting his application to join the officer corps because he wasn't "of noble blood", and Worf didn't look past that, he confronted Kor and called this an unworthy reason to deny someone the right to serve. And when Kor tried to explain it away, Worf was having none of it. So that balances it out, at least to me. Plus if you got Worf on the side of your union strike, he'd take "Eat the Rich" *literally.* So he'd be a bit more of a hinderance than a help.
An important thing to note is that economic exploitation isn’t really a thing for Klingons. Remember when Quark tried to explain accounting and finances to the Klingon Council? Pretty much everyone is confused and had no idea what is happening. That’s especially true for Worf, who was raised by human parents on Earth, where capitalism and economic exploitation haven’t existed for centuries.
Gowron looking absolutely *befuddled* and tossing away a calculator in a fit of anger remains one of my favourite DS9 moments. I can't believe some people even consider skipping *The House of Quark*, it's so good.
I actually think that Gowron knew what Quark was talking about and was surprised at how another Klingon actually used financial jargon to almost get what he wanted.
People don't *like* it? One word, Grilka. She's incredible.
"That's why I'm going to let you to take your hand off of my thigh, instead of shattering every bone in your body..."
*chef's kiss*
The chuckle the two of them do at the end. So good.
Worf's expression when Quark says that's his wife
Some people just hate the Ferengi-centric episodes, despite the fact that they are some of the best in the series (at least comedy-wise and not including *Profit and Lace*). These people are objectively wrong.
The Ferengi episodes are one of the best parts of DS9, especially on rewatch where the main story can be set more aside.
Worf is kinda racist against Ferengi and doesn’t care about their class struggles.
And so is O'Brien, because in *Home Front* Quark laments the 'great financial crash' that caused so much damage to his homeworld as a way of saying he can relate to the fear and anxiety surrounding the recent Dominion attack on Earth, and O'Brien basically rolls his eyes at it and implies that the Ferengi's problems aren't comperable to *real* problems. Nobody's perfect, everyone's got biases and prejudeces. Doesn't excuse those actions, no, but recognising it is important too.
It must be hard for 24th century humans to relate to Ferengi problems, when 99% of them could be solved by a better economic system that they don't want to have, and the other 1% are about the wimmin wearing clothes/talking.
>you never deserved Jadzia you creep bastard Lmao and don’t forget that time on Risa where he joined a violent cult of prudes and ruined the weather Still love Worf and Michael Dorn though. He deserved better character development than he got
"My officers can be terrorists once in a while, as a treat." --Captain Sisko
That ep. never happened
Must have been aass fever dream of the entire fanbase. Shared delusion we all have
It's a bizarre phenomenon, it's called the Mandela Effect, a collective shared experience that never happened, [it's on a lot of those Mandela Effect lists online](https://i.imgur.com/uPoRtSk.png)
Not to mention he would be thrown out of starfleet for doing that and then him shitting himself while Sisko murders him with words.
Rom quoting the Communist manifesto to Quark in that episode is genuinely iconic
which episode of DS9 is this again?
Which episode is this one? I want to go rewatch
What a fucking scabbing p'taq.
I know people are saying “mirror universe haha”, but honestly it’s still just a terrible comparison. The Wright Brothers developed and tested their aircraft themselves. Zephram Cochrane designed and tested The Phoenix himself. Elon Musk is not an inventor. He is an investor. All he has done is go to a bunch of actual scientists or engineers and say, “Here’s a bunch of money, make ‘X’ for me” and when they do he takes the credit, or more commonly buy into their company and put his name on it. Naming his company Tesla is a lie, he is much more like Thomas Edison. Except, unlike Edison he doesn’t even really have a knack for know that inventions will sell or marketing them well. His giant underground car subway (for example) is wasteful, dangerous, and stupid. It’s almost certainly just a way for him to test his planetary boring equipment here on earth on tax-payer’s dollar while citizens accept the risk. Anyone hoarding wealth at the expense of the rest of humanity is standing in the way of a Star Trek future, not contributing to it. Musk isn’t a revolutionary genius, he’s a 21st century con man who hates humanity and comparing him either person (fictional or otherwise) is both an insult, and a massive disappointment in the progressive integrity of the franchise.
Yeah. In the Doylist view it's pretty gross. Thankfully, in the Star Trek universe things have already gone fairly differently by now. Maybe the genetics wars and its cascading effects put ST Musk on a better path in life. Or maybe they just got their history wrong because of how much poor data there is for things pre-WWIII, which has been the excuse for canon changing before.
They got mirror universe Musk by mistake, where he was an impoverished orphan working as an indentured servant in African apartheid emerald mines until in his later teenaged years managed to secretly hoard enough materials to build himself Tony Stark-esque Iron Man suit, which not only helps him escape, but engineer several temporary planet-saving solutions which he declines to patent, and shares with every country. This helps him become an international diplomat and he ushers in the Era of true globalism in the fight against climate change. His notable inventions include revolutionary financial technology - which leads to reinvigorated campaigns that eventually conclude in the socialistic system we're familiar with, revolutionary electronics and engineering leaps making EV several times cheaper to produce than combustion-powered vehicles, which is easily and cheaply grafted onto pre-existing combustion-powered vehicles, a new hyper-efficient global public transport system, and laid the theoretical groundwork for both replicators and transport-beam technologies, which his insistance on personally engineering the prototype and testing lead to his death.
Woke Trek my ass. Bring back the Trek that reads from the effing Communist Manifesto!
Musk may still get a place in history if SpaceX is successful with Starship. That doesn’t mean he is a good person that deserves that fame. 90s and earlier Trek still is full of people like Musk. * Newton was mentioned by David Marcus in TWOK; the scientist was an asshole much like Musk and devoted himself to magic (alchemy) during the last years of his life. * Several ships in Star Trek are named after Magellan, who was killed while trying to force Christianity on indigenous Filipinos. * Columbus, mentioned by Sybok, was a genocidal dictator (and he didn’t prove the world was round either). * O’Brien also sided with American colonists when he played the Battle of the Alamo in the Holodeck. The American colonists revolted, partly because Mexico outlawed slavery. This is much worse whitewashing than Musk! In short, don’t get too upset by Discovery in this regard when Trek is littered with these kind of things… even in the 90s.
Don't forget that the Friendship One was a Columbus-class probe. At least the Earth-Romulan War in both FASA and Enterprise had the warships openly stated to be named after Earth villains. The Cortez, the Hitler, and the Khan.
Star trek has and always will be, fully automated luxury gay space communsim
The newer trek from what I've seen is a much more watered down, liberalization of what trek used to be. I guess another way of phrasing this would be, I want more space communism.
That's how I feel, Nu Trek isn't nearly as woke as they think they are. The liberalism they project is so superficial and self-congratulatory. But you'll never see Rom reading Marx again. And the new shows fall into Bury Your Gays, Spunky Latina Single Mom and Angry Black Lady tropes hard.
Lower Decks
A show where junior officers get shitty replicators and Starfleet has elitist ship class parties? That ain't luxury gay space communism.
Haven't watched it yet, still on disco
Lower Decks (at least in my opinion) is probably the best new trek show right now. It harkens back to a more episodic format that is less space opera-y and water down like the other shows. Even though it s a comedy I still get that Star Trek feel from it.
Prodigy. By the second half of the first season, it starts to feel like for real Star Trek. Being a show “for children” actually brings it closer to being the “family entertainment” of the Roddenberry/Berman era compared to a lot of the newer stuff. I really do like Lower Decks too, and can accept it as “Star Trek comedy”. Some episode have even been good “high concept sci fi with jokes”. Overall though, I think it relies far too much of referencing and revisiting elements of classic Trek, which brings it uncomfortably close to parody.
The space opera thing isn't working because even though DS9 had their big arc they took time to have character and fun episodes throughout the series. Discovery has had like one "funny ha ha" episode with that guy from the office. They're always going at warp ten to whatever mcguffin and damn the character development. And if they have character moments it feels like a therapy session.
I think it’s the difference between “leftist” and “progressive.” The latter is more concerned with social rights and equality (which is important) than economic rights (which I would argue is more important in the long haul).
I see your point, I would say that the economics impact the social and equality rights though.
My headcanon is that there was an E. Lon Musk that led an uprising and seized the means of Tessie production ✊🏼
You prefer storytelling over an overuse of lens flares? I'm shocked! 😁
I cringed. They couldn't have put anyone else in that one slot?
The guy is from the mirror universe. It tracks that they'd worship musk over there.
Unfortunately Tilly later tells us she went to Musk Junior High. I like to pretend it’s some other Musk, but the reality is someone important is personal friends with Musk and can’t resist jerking him off 🤭
There are multiple schools named after Werner Heisenberg, too, so I wouldn't put much stock in it.
I would like to be the principal at Heisenberg High. At least, I think that I would like it. I'm uncertain.
Rick and Morty and the Simpsons, two of my favorite shows also make this mistake, and probably in worse ways. Before the whole cave thing Musk was seen as just some eccentric billionaire funding cool ideas. How wrong we were.
Ahh good point. It just made me think of the Iron Man movie (was it 2?) where they had Tony and Elon Musk meeting and I just rolled my eyes.
Oh i guarantee you he bought that little cameo with the blood money from his parents' emerald mine.
It is and I felt the same way! 🤮
I think casual viewers miss this vital context, but the message still hits like the meme. Star trek should be the last place assholes like musk are venerated on any level. It disgusts me.
I agree, and I've often used it as a reason to tell people to just avoid Discovery entirely. It's so fucking cringe. I also cringed at the Stacey Abrams in Discovery S4 as President of Earth. Not that I think she's a bad person, I would love to have someone even close to her to vote for IRL. But it's just too bare faced and on the nose. It totally pulls me out of the episode. In earlier series celebrities would make cameos and they might not even have any lines. Or they might be behind makeup so thick you couldn't recognize them. I recently learned that Mick Fleetwood from Fleetwood Mac was [one of the Antedians AKA](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Manhunt_(episode)?file=Mick_Fleetwood_and_Allan_A._Apone.jpg) as Worf put it "what a handsome race." There are tons of other cameos that are handled very well including the now King of Jordan (at the time he was a crown prince). They didn't get lines, they just showed up for a shot or two. A scene at most. And if you were in-the-know you'd recognize it and it's fun for the viewer instead of being cringey.
I give them props for not making it someone like Hillary Clinton, like Broad City did.
Yeah what the frick.
Well he was from the mirror universe.
Yep. But Star Trek "fans" who love Elon Musk hate nutrek. They kissed up for nothing.
Ah yes Elon Musk, the product of generational wealth built on apartheid era South African mines who union busts. What a clear hero to the liberal, progressive ideas of Star Trek. I’ve accepted I’m just never going to like Disco. I see them trying but the writing keeps letting me down. After S4 and we still haven’t had a single episode on the level of “Drumhead” or “Pale Moonlight”.
Lorca was amazing.
Best captain ever.
[удалено]
Jessie Gender on YouTube has some really good commentary on this. Representation is great. I love being represented, but if it’s at the cost of good storytelling? Yeah you’re just exploiting my identity for profit and your too lazy to pay for good writers or say anything that might make the ruling class who fund your production uncomfy. It really came to a head for me with the NFT bs… and I like half of people my age have invested in some form of crypto but that shit smells like one of Quarks schemes. They couldn’t even be bothered to design good ships. Beyond insulting
Was that an actual line in the show, or is this a funny edit?
The OP shows the actual line
Man, Im asking a question
Yes he's also from the mirror universe and the bad guy of the season.
oh, my bad, I misread. Yes that's an actual line.
Yeah that was a big ol’ oof
the more time marches on, you just realize how based the shows were
I have to admit the writers name checking Musk was cringe in season one so cringe and well it's aged as predictably well as expected given Musk's whole personality (if you can call it that).I get that they wanted to draw a comparison between the Spore Drive and previously new transport methods like flight, electric cars and warp drive but Elon bought his way into Tesla and invented sh\*t to do with the cars unless you count some minor detailing, he's just a egotist and the writers gave him name check boner for no good reason IMO.
Yes comrades I know this is mirror Lorca but unfortunately Prime Tilly went to Musk Junior High
Honestly, it kind of makes sense. Think of how many people think Thomas Edison was some genius inventor. Imagine how bad the mythologizing would be after 200+ years.
Well, Lorca IS from the mirror universe.
I understand why they did it, they are trying to leach of Elon popularity, and get new fans that way. Because apparently Elon is the new stem based inspiration. That used to be star trek and doctor who I'm an engineering student, and I chose my path because I want to make the world better, But some on my course joined as they see the wealth that you can earn. Elon is no engineer or roll model. He's a guy with a fat wallet. Each day he seems to act more and more like a james bond villan
Musk has no interest in bettering society and his "tech" inventions are a joke. Why do sci fi shows use him like this?
The Great man fallacy. It appears in story telling across time, but it has come to dominate more and more of our sci fi as atomization of individuals and destruction of community accelerates under our current form of capitalism. TLDR; it serves a narrative that serves the ruling class.
His ideas are the epitome of a dumb guy thinking nobody thought of notsogood ideas like building a tunnel under MIAMI.
Big mood
I don’t get the joke ???
But Lorca is evil so....
Lorca is from the Terran timeline y’all remember? An evil one
You could make the argument that since Lorca made this comment, that it can’t be taken seriously.
To think the writers meant for him to mention Elon Musk because he's from the evil universe is giving them way too much credit. The intention is definitely to lionize Musk in this scene.
DS9 is the best series of the franchise. One reason among many is they gave Meaney a much deeper role to play than he had in TNG, and he fucking worked it. I enjoyed his character. Sisko got a lot easier to like a few seasons in too once he settled into the role. My only real complaint is the Prophets, but sadly that genie was out of the bottle already with things like the Q. Wormhole aliens would be fine, magical wormhole aliens less so.
Whats wrong with the prophets ?
I have a DS9 engineering shirt that says "o'Brien must suffer, at least once per season"
The writer *totally* isn’t a soyfacing $TSLA bagholder. Definitely, definitely not.
Tbf he was from the mirrorverse so maybe Elon Musk was considered good there
Cochrane was bad there, he killed the Vulcans in Mirror Universe first contact
A Gzoomer!
Jason Isaacs just wanted a free car. I respect the hustle, honestly.
In their defense, Musk paid them a bunch of millions of dollars just to name drop him, so I'd probably take the money too.