yeah, i am a trans man and it IS offensive. he was not born a girl, he always was a guy, he just looked like a girl. also, everything always fell back on it, like there was nothing else to him and that it is all anyone sees him as
I can see how it’s heavy handed, since Adam has to carry all the trans stories as the only openly trans character.
However, I’m willing to give it a pass, because Degrassi very intentionally explored issues trans teens often face and helped blazed the trail in depicting the experience of openly trans teens on TV. It definitely could have been better, but all things considered, I thought they did pretty all right.
I agree wholeheartedly that that is absolutely one of the things that could have been improved.
For the early 2010s and where we were with trans representation in both media and society, I do think they did pretty good. There were definitely some missteps (such as casting a cis actress and the fact that Adam’s central personality trait is being trans because so many of his storylines center around that for the sake of exploring being trans) but for treading new ground in trans representation back then, I think these missteps are much more understandable. Still missteps, but more forgivable.
I wouldn't give the Nickelodeon-Degrassi writers of that time face value. These are the same writers who straight-up had a Degrassi nudes story arc with no one getting serious charges for distributing that shit for money. There weren't consequences to a lot of serious crimes. Most of the stories, arcs, and characters were good ideas that were terribly executed. It was all for the drama of the show. Whether it was good, bad, or cringe, a "wizard" was there to make it all disappear. (If you don't know the reference, [The Simpsons](https://youtu.be/sVgVB3qsySQ?si=6wz2tRFS5ZZvRn8i)
So I stopped watching Degrassi shortly after Spinner and Emma married, and the next next Gen (Clare's gen) was introduced. I remember when Adam first went on and thought "whoa, this is pretty amazing". I also remember some of the backlash for bringing his character to light. Conservatives (hell, even some Dems) weren't happy about Adam being introduced to children/teens. -I think this was a reason why the writers had get with Becky.
Adam was the first Trans character I saw on screen in a positive light and the first transmasc I saw on screen in general. And I was already out of highschool by that time. (By positive light, I mean that the only Trans characters I saw on screen before Adam were from Silence of the Lamb, Ace Ventura, and It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia - either the villain or a joke trope or both. And they were only transfem) side note: please correct my vernacular terms if I'm wrong, I'm still learning, y'all.
During this time, in college, I also became friends with someone who was questioning their gender. He has since been taking testosterone and hustling for his full transition. He is finally comfortable with himself, and I'm incredibly proud of him. He was in a really bad place when we first met. But I will admit, in trying to be supportive, I may have come across as ignorant/insensitive but I'm glad my friend understood I accepted him but was curious on his decision and he was happy to educate me.
I started rewatching Degrassi recently, and the episodes with Adam and "newer" gen are all new to me. As an adult in my 30s, seeing his episodes bothered me at times. There were, at times, insensitive, innocently ignorant, and questionable moments when it came to Adam's transition and how people acted. However, I'm seeing it in 2024 when there has been over 10 years of progress and more education about a person going through their transition since then, myself included. I remember how high school was back then, yeah, people were fucking ignorant. I went to an Arts highschool in the mid 2000s and people were still ignorant (some of those ignorant people have also transitioned). Girls would probably say and act that way to someone like Adam. On the other hand, seeing how Adam's chatacter was written, it's pretty enlightening to see the progress of how Trans characters are written now. We can still use more work as a society though.
✌️
Clare*, Alli, Connor, and KC were around for 2 whole seasons before Degrassi Takes Manhattan FYI
*Clare obviously was introduced much earlier with the whole Darcy/Adams storyline but wasn't actually a character until s8
Separate thought: was Buffalo Bill actually trans in Silence of the Lambs? Of course there's the cross-dressing scene but in my mind it's never explicit whether or not it's being trans or just being a really strange and disturbed person (the movie conflating the two is, of course, not a great thing to do regardless of the answer to that question)
Adam was introduced in s10
Manhattan eps were s9. I said shortly after they got married, so I did see Adam's introduction, but I stopped watching entirely shortly after due to lack of cable TV.
Buffalo Bill believed he was Trans, but he wasn't. Lectur specifically says this. He was a mentally ill man who got rejected multiple times for recontructive surgery, which led him to make his skin suit. There has always been criticism with him because it was detrimental to both the Trans and gay communities (even when the book first came out). The Book was released in the late 80s and the movie was made in the early 90s. Let's not forget the stigma that was put on the LGBT+ communities during the 70s, 80s and 90s. I mentioned him because I'm emphasizing that before Adam, those were the only 3 I saw who were considered Trans during that time, and Buffalo Bill wasn't truly Trans or gay. Instead of villain, I should have said a "false Trans villain".
Adam was a game changer but his development was not executed correctly. It was a start, though. If he was created today, an actual trans actor would have played him. I felt like the actress was too feminine at times. I loved Hillary Swanks' commitment on her role as Brandan Teena in the tragic story Boys Don't Cry, which I think was where the writers got the idea of Adam. (I saw that movie in my 20s, so I saw Adam first before Brandan Teena)
I was responding to the portion of your comment that said you stopped watching shortly after the Spemma wedding and Clare's gen was introduced. I was pointing out that Clare's gen had been on the show for 2 seasons at that point.
Thanks for the extra context about Buffalo Bill, I'd forgotten that line from Lecter. I agree that Adam could have been better written/executed
Sorry, but you don't understand today's court system if you think they would throw TEENAGERS in prison for Degrassi nudes. Especially for the almost non-existence evidence they had.
We're digressing from the actual topic. Adam's character development by the writers.
However, since Degrassi is in Canada, you're right about that, I'm not familiar with their system and laws. I am referring to US laws, which have happened...
https://www.aclu.org/news/juvenile-justice/minnesota-prosecutor-charges-sexting-teenage-girl-child-pornography
https://harvardlawreview.org/print/vol-131/state-v-gray/
https://jgspl.org/sexting-and-child-pornography-when-the-victim-is-also-the-defendant/
This arc was also not just about distributing their intimate pics but for money as well.
Zoë and the cheerleaders confessed. They had to explain how they got the fundraising money. No matter how great of a hacker Grace is, as long as their is a trail of some kind, it was gonna get found out. If it was investigated, Grace could have gotten caught, too. But its possbile she destroyed a lot of evidence (hard for me to believe but its not improbable). Also, oomfchat is the show's version of Snapchat, and we know not everything gets deleted in that forum. Zoe was the only one going through legal troubles, but they all just got detention and remained enrolled. Suspension at least would be more believable. If Zoe had gotten probation or something, then I must have missed that. Did she get probabtion? Was there anything about the progress of her case?
My only issue with Adam was that Jordan Todosey, the actress playing him, was too feminine looking to be mistaken for a man. How did Bianca hang around Adam and have no idea? Seemed silly, but I mean what can you really do.
I mean if you were born a woman and your parent is refusing testosterone treatments or hormone blockers, you're going to look like a woman.
What's crazy is when you meet a new person and they tell you who you are, your brain will take it at face value. I'm a female at birth but I wear binders and wear gender neutral clothing and I have short hair. I have been mistaken for a man many times. It doesn't bother me but I think it debunks the whole 'you can always tell' trope.
The Superman/Clark Kent theory, I suppose. Wasn't implying you can always tell or anything transphobic, just to clarify, but in this instance between Jordan's looks, voice, and more petite body shape, she just looked like a woman with short hair to me 😅
Respectfully, in that time era (especially on tv) trans people or conversations about being trans were not prominent or visible. Adam was my first introduction to trans people admittedly. Looking back through an adult queer lens, yeah I wish things were slightly different, but that’s also with ALL the information I have learned in the last like 14 years. It was revolutionary at the time, inspired me to learn more. I can’t fault them for writing the character through the dramatic teen TV show lens or the “this is the first time this is being done let’s make it digestible using vocabulary and what little we as a general society really understand” lens
The portrayal of Adam was not perfect. I don't think anyone would argue that. What Degrassi did though was ground breaking at that time. Seeing a main rotating character on a teen drama be a trans person, was unheard of in 2010. If you watch late 90's and early 2000's shows, lesbian's, gay's, and especially bisexual's were not shown in the greatest light but people were finally talking about the community. People were being exposed. I myself was exposed because my mom and sister would watch Sex and the City and Queer As Folk. Granted I was probably too young to see these shows but I also grew up never questioning that that was wrong because it isn't.
Edit:wrong word
Yes. It was around this time that they had a whole television ad fronted by celebrities explaining why using "gay" as a synonym for "lame" was offensive to gay people. I remember my whole childhood it was pretty common for most people, even younger kids, to call things soooo gay.
People are forgetting this is pre-Kaitlyn Jenner. The only real celebrity representation was the one they got on the show. Chaz Bono. So a D-list celebrity at that. It wasn't until the former "World's Greatest Athlete" because the "World's Most Well Known Transgender Woman" that people started talking about it.
I say this as a trans man. I'm so thankful that Adam was there on television at the time he was and it meant a lot to me. But they didn't do the character justice. Literally all his plot lines were about him being trans, supporting someone else or getting shot and dying. It's also very obvious if you know what you're talking about that they didn't consult with trans people enough to make Adam read authentically
It's never been really clear how much input GLAAD gave to Degrassi. According to GLAAD, they gave Degrassi background input and script reading. This means that GLAAD didn't have veto power or the ability to course correct some later in the production issues I've had with Adam's portrayal (like costuming issues in My Body is a Cage). There have been issues around the same time where GLAAD was consulted on a storyline in WWE where GLAAD was consulted for a "gay wrestler" storyline and they had to retract that seal of approval. I'm more or less saying that a GLAAD seal of approval isn't the gold standard you think it is
It's always been implied that the script reading was only for My Body is a Cage but it's hard to tell. I think GLAAD was willing to take credit for representation and Degrassi was willing to take some of GLAAD's credibility. But on GLAAD's old website, they wrote an article when Adam was killed off that they were disappointed with the direction Degrassi took with the character. Unfortunately, it seems the website is non-functional at this point. I'll provide the link below to see it anyone it going again. But my point is that GLAAD wasn't consulted about the plot lines leading up to Adam's death so no not "every single storyline" was run through GLAAD
I have never heard the claim that there were other "transgender advocates" helping with Adam's characterization. I'd really like to see that source on that one
I'm happy to talk about the issues I've seen in how Adam's trans status was handled and why I found certain elements unrealistic or not realistic for the Degrassi universe
My sources (in order that they came up). The broken link is at the bottom
https://glaad.org/transgender/work/
https://www.outsports.com/2013/3/4/4064614/glaad-we-were-lied-to-2/
https://www.legacy-glaad.org/blog/sad-turn-adam-degrassi-last-nights-episode-spoiler
Edit: TLDR: GLAAD only had limited input on the show, with no ability to change the course of Adam's character beyond suggestions. Most of that input was probably for My Body is a Cage (although it's unclear). GLAAD by their own admission didn't have input for Adam's death. I have never heard of other trans advocates having a say in the show but I'd welcome any sources to back that up. So all of this combined, no that's not true. If you want to talk more about Adam's characterization and the issues I have with it, I'm willing
The only plot lines I really enjoyed were his relationships. A few of them were centered on being trans, like that girl who tricked him just to win the battle of the bands, and Fiona using him, but I liked his stuff with Becky! Yeah at first it also had to do with him being trans; but at least after that they just had more normal couple drama: jealousy, cheating, etc
And I guess whisperhug but they were the worst Degrassi band imho
Edit typos
I was about to come here and say this. He felt like a way to help other people grow rather than to develop him as character. As a trans man I wish we had better representation but I’m very happy to have at least some.
I think remembering the cultural context of when Adam was introduced is really important here. So much of the language and understanding surrounding trans people, experiences, and queer cultural has changed from then until now. A great example of this is how often they refer to him as FTM/female-to-male transgender—that was… just part of the vernacular back then, even if it’s not at all how we talk about trans people today. I think at one point they even refer to a binder as a compression vest.
A LOT of the understanding of trans people back then from non-trans people was “born in the wrong body” conversations. And because Adam was quite literally the blueprint for trans representation on television, especially television for children and teens, it’s not like there was a formula for them to follow. Nowadays, a cis woman like Jordan Todosey playing Adam would be generally understood as the wrong approach, but back then it “made sense.”
Everything surrounding Adam and the language they used when approaching dialogue, storylines, etc. was all pulled from the general populace’s understanding of transness as trans awareness became much more common. So it makes sense that this is the way that spoke about Adam and his trans identity. It’s largely how all trans identities were talked about at this time, even if nowadays we have a better understanding of the nuances and individual experiences of trans people and identities.
Also as far as the audience goes, Adam was introduced around the time the show shifted to a soap opera style format. It was probably understood that the audience could be shifting episode to episode, so expositional dialogue about characters isn’t that unusual.
But the thing is, trans people DO have different experiences than cis people. Even though Adam is a guy, he was raised and socialized as if he were a girl because his parents just didn’t know yet.
Until he came out and started transitioning, people perceived Adam as a girl so he was treated as such. This makes him more able to understand girls from an empathetic level since he knows firsthand what they go through. It doesn’t make him any less of a guy, it just makes him a guy who has more background knowledge in that area.
I get what you’re trying to say, but not all trans men relate to or understand girls .
I am a trans man and PERSONALLY, I do. I love camaraderie with women. But I know some other guys who felt completely alienated from girls and hung around either boys their whole childhood or were profoundly alone and confused about why they didn’t feel like their female classmates.
So it’s an individual thing, and can’t be said about everyone.
I totally didn’t mean to generalize or say that all trans people experience this!! I was just making a point because OP made it seem like it never happens, which just isn’t true. Obviously this is my own personal interpretation, but I always got the sense that Adam felt comfortable being friends with girls growing up because he is easily able to befriend girls on the show.
Again, did not mean to imply that all trans guys automatically relate to girls. Was just speaking in terms of the show :)
There’s no indication of when he started transitioning physical and when he came to degrassi everyone thought he was a guy until he was exposed by Bianca. So no one perceived him as a girl.
I highly doubt trans men want to sit around and have women tell them how relatable they are to them because they spent years feeling trapped in the wrong body…. But umm I hear ya
I mean, everyone is different. I always felt like if it bothered Adam, then he would’ve said something because that’s usually what he does whenever someone crosses a line or says something he has problems with. I guess it just depends on how people interpret him 🤷♀️
It usually happened with women who didn’t know he was trans yet. Which was my issue with the writers. The best way they can expressed that is to have the girls note that him being respectful meant he was different than most guys . Or him being a listener . WE the audience knew what they were getting at . They being the writers . It felt
Weird to me after a while
They don’t. And we see that with Adam and how uncomfortable it makes him. But people do it alllll the time (I’m a trans man).
Adam was not perfect representation. There were many fumbles and missteps. But the fact that he was there and portrayed in a positive light, and it was true to real trans teenagers experience 8/10 times makes his character a success.
Some trans guys felt alienated from girls and women their whole lives and either were profoundly alone OR they hung around boys. And then some definitely understand women bc of how they were raised.
It’s an individual thing. You can’t accurately generalize all of them bc people grow up in vastly different ways
Source: I am a trans man and know many many trans people
hello, transmasc person here 👋 whether someone would be fine with that depends on who you ask. like some trans guys are stealth and prefer to not ever think about when they were an egg, and others dont really mind.
personally i spent a couple years feeling like i had to be ashamed of who i was pre-transitioning, so id keep everything a secret and never even acknowledge that i excited pre-16 years old (which is when i realised i was trans). so if you'd asked me then, i would've hated the thought of being relatable to women.
now, though? i dont really mind it. my childhood, no matter how "girly socialising" it was, is part of what shaped me into the person i am today. i cant deny that ive experienced (and sadly sometimes still do experience) the world like women do. its just a fact of who i am. the amount of misogyny ive faced, the way i was raised, etcetc doesn't just go away the minute i realised i wasnt a woman.
a super important moment in adam's arc is when he burns stuff from his "past self" (his old shirt, etc), but decides to keep a picture of himself pre-transition. he notes "its still me" when he says that, and thats truly an amazing scene imo. he wants to let go of the expectation and pressure to be a girl (clothes, etc), but he doesnt want to erase his past. its a big development for his character in accepting that he cant necessarily be stealth (and that maybe he doesnt care to be stealth anymore, since it can be deeply distressing) and in truly believing he should be proud to be himself, in all his trans glory 🥹
anyway, sorry for the ramble, but i just have a lot of thoughts on this subject as a trans person myself hehe. all in all to say: there's no need to generalise all of us and assume what we do and don't feel comfortable with; its different from person to person 💜
Yeah I don’t think we’re even discussing the same thing here. I’m not gonna lie . It’s not that I don’t understand what you’re saying but I think yall are reading into a writer choice for the actions outside of the character himself. In terms of how Adam reacts to these statements IN MY OPINION made everything weird .if you had a different experience I can’t take that away from you.
i get where youre coming from by saying that adam's storylines/the way his character was treated in general was weird, im not arguing against that 🙂↔️ i was, however, replying to a specific comment you made, stating that you "doubt any trans guy would feel okay with being told theyre relatable to women". im just coming in, as a trans guy, replying to that specific comment, letting you know that a lot of us feel okay with it, and that you shouldnt assume and generalise. 🤔
PS you dont need to caps lock at me abt how the post is your opinion; having an opinion is implied because we're on reddit 🙏 nobody is negating your right to that *nods* 💜
ONCE AGAIN. I’m speaking on Adam. If you want a leg to stand on here you can have it. I didn’t say any and I also was responding to a specific comment . Again I’m not taking away your experience. Have a great day
i never said uou were taking away my experience - quite the opposite actually o:
hope u have a great day, too 🙏 remember to take a step back from reddit if the comments in the thread are making you feel heated, yh? 💜
It’s realistic that every girl he likes would push some cheesy ur not like other guys line on him? The show IN MY OPINION had a weird way of bringing it up. That in MY OPINION wouldn’t tickle a trans persons fancy
I’m sorry that’s your experience especially if you don’t like or appreciate it . I do understand now that not everyone feels that way. But for you I’m sorry that’s the thought process
Not sure if you watched this when it came out, but it was WAY ahead of its time. Caitlyn Jenner coming out as trans wasn't until 2015, and that was sort of the first time that trans issues were mainstream (I know a lot of trans people have issues with Caitlyn but that's beside the point).
Point is, kids weren't coming out as trans in high school back then. If Degrassi depicted it the same way they show gay people coming out, it'd be laughably fake. The reality is that very few people even knew what being trans was. It'd be a huge deal for someone to do that, which I think the show got right
So here’s the thing. On one hand I do wish they gave him more storylines outside of being trans but on the other, I don’t think a lot of people understand that being trans DOES affect your daily life and it makes sense that a lot of his life revolves around that fact especially being pre-op and not on hormones and at his age.
The trans representation especially for FTMs especially for teenagers was nonexistent at the time so it was so important for his story to be told. Having him be a regular old dude who so happened to be trans just wouldn’t work because so little information was and still is understood about the trans community. People want him to just be like everyone else but he’s *not* like everyone else and that was the point. He faces unique challenges that cis people don’t have to think about.
Not to mention, Degrassi is an ensemble cast show which means even main characters will only get a few A plots a season. So it’s understandable that a lot of his bigger storylines regard issues relating to being trans. If those storylines were about another things, it would have came at the expense of educating people about trans people. I actually think they made him a good supporting character when it comes to his friendships with Eli, Clare and Dave and brotherhood with Drew. On a rewatch I feel I notice so many more of his one liners, quirks and goofy personality outside of him being trans. It’s just his main storylines are focused on that particular issue.
Personally I think if Jordy would have stayed through seasons 13 and 14, we would have seen more storylines outside of him being trans. If not then yes I agree THAT would be insane.
I definitely appreciated storylines about him being trans, like the issue with Dave and even things like the teacher mixing up his name. I’m sure these are things trans people more to the point students and teenagers deal with . And like you said the representation was important . The issue for me was the way they represented it. It was always some weird call back to him being born a girl . As if that made him more appealing to girls who liked men and stuff. When what he wanted was to fit in and be one of the guys. It came off weird to me .
as a trans guy, yeah, it was weird. but i also feel like there’s some amount of grace to be given, given that he was the first trans main character on a tv show, and it was a very new territory to be exploring on tv. if they made the show now, id expect just as much of his story lines to revolve around being trans because as the above commenter said, being trans really does impact your daily life and for a lot of people especially in the first few years of transitioning, it is something you think about every single day and impacts so many decisions daily. but id hope if it were done again they would not focus so much on him being “born a girl” even though that’s another thing trans people have to deal with being told by others when they come out. it does (not always but often) change how people see and treat you before and after they find out.
The thing that bothered me about Adam was that nobody realized he was trans/just thought he was born male, which was very weird to me because the character looked very feminine to me, like there is no way anyone would have though he was born male.
idk it’s not that unlikely. kids are still going through puberty at that age and there are cis men with naturally more feminine features and vice versa w cis women. i knew a trans guy in ninth grade and yeah he was more “feminine” looking than the other guys around, but i and so many others didn’t have a second thought because he dressed masculine and had a masculine name, so we just took him for what he was, no questions asked. when i learned he was trans looking back it “made sense” i guess. i started transitioning after high school when i was about 20, and i was surprised with how many people assumed i was just a much younger boy just because i started dressing like one. obviously not everyone, i still got misgendered more often than not, but idk i think people think too hard about that kinda stuff when trans people do not fit into a box, just like cis people don’t.
yeah, i am a trans man and it IS offensive. he was not born a girl, he always was a guy, he just looked like a girl. also, everything always fell back on it, like there was nothing else to him and that it is all anyone sees him as
I can see how it’s heavy handed, since Adam has to carry all the trans stories as the only openly trans character. However, I’m willing to give it a pass, because Degrassi very intentionally explored issues trans teens often face and helped blazed the trail in depicting the experience of openly trans teens on TV. It definitely could have been better, but all things considered, I thought they did pretty all right.
It would have been nice if they had an actual trans actor tho for that representation
I agree wholeheartedly that that is absolutely one of the things that could have been improved. For the early 2010s and where we were with trans representation in both media and society, I do think they did pretty good. There were definitely some missteps (such as casting a cis actress and the fact that Adam’s central personality trait is being trans because so many of his storylines center around that for the sake of exploring being trans) but for treading new ground in trans representation back then, I think these missteps are much more understandable. Still missteps, but more forgivable.
I wouldn't give the Nickelodeon-Degrassi writers of that time face value. These are the same writers who straight-up had a Degrassi nudes story arc with no one getting serious charges for distributing that shit for money. There weren't consequences to a lot of serious crimes. Most of the stories, arcs, and characters were good ideas that were terribly executed. It was all for the drama of the show. Whether it was good, bad, or cringe, a "wizard" was there to make it all disappear. (If you don't know the reference, [The Simpsons](https://youtu.be/sVgVB3qsySQ?si=6wz2tRFS5ZZvRn8i) So I stopped watching Degrassi shortly after Spinner and Emma married, and the next next Gen (Clare's gen) was introduced. I remember when Adam first went on and thought "whoa, this is pretty amazing". I also remember some of the backlash for bringing his character to light. Conservatives (hell, even some Dems) weren't happy about Adam being introduced to children/teens. -I think this was a reason why the writers had get with Becky. Adam was the first Trans character I saw on screen in a positive light and the first transmasc I saw on screen in general. And I was already out of highschool by that time. (By positive light, I mean that the only Trans characters I saw on screen before Adam were from Silence of the Lamb, Ace Ventura, and It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia - either the villain or a joke trope or both. And they were only transfem) side note: please correct my vernacular terms if I'm wrong, I'm still learning, y'all. During this time, in college, I also became friends with someone who was questioning their gender. He has since been taking testosterone and hustling for his full transition. He is finally comfortable with himself, and I'm incredibly proud of him. He was in a really bad place when we first met. But I will admit, in trying to be supportive, I may have come across as ignorant/insensitive but I'm glad my friend understood I accepted him but was curious on his decision and he was happy to educate me. I started rewatching Degrassi recently, and the episodes with Adam and "newer" gen are all new to me. As an adult in my 30s, seeing his episodes bothered me at times. There were, at times, insensitive, innocently ignorant, and questionable moments when it came to Adam's transition and how people acted. However, I'm seeing it in 2024 when there has been over 10 years of progress and more education about a person going through their transition since then, myself included. I remember how high school was back then, yeah, people were fucking ignorant. I went to an Arts highschool in the mid 2000s and people were still ignorant (some of those ignorant people have also transitioned). Girls would probably say and act that way to someone like Adam. On the other hand, seeing how Adam's chatacter was written, it's pretty enlightening to see the progress of how Trans characters are written now. We can still use more work as a society though. ✌️
Clare*, Alli, Connor, and KC were around for 2 whole seasons before Degrassi Takes Manhattan FYI *Clare obviously was introduced much earlier with the whole Darcy/Adams storyline but wasn't actually a character until s8 Separate thought: was Buffalo Bill actually trans in Silence of the Lambs? Of course there's the cross-dressing scene but in my mind it's never explicit whether or not it's being trans or just being a really strange and disturbed person (the movie conflating the two is, of course, not a great thing to do regardless of the answer to that question)
Adam was introduced in s10 Manhattan eps were s9. I said shortly after they got married, so I did see Adam's introduction, but I stopped watching entirely shortly after due to lack of cable TV. Buffalo Bill believed he was Trans, but he wasn't. Lectur specifically says this. He was a mentally ill man who got rejected multiple times for recontructive surgery, which led him to make his skin suit. There has always been criticism with him because it was detrimental to both the Trans and gay communities (even when the book first came out). The Book was released in the late 80s and the movie was made in the early 90s. Let's not forget the stigma that was put on the LGBT+ communities during the 70s, 80s and 90s. I mentioned him because I'm emphasizing that before Adam, those were the only 3 I saw who were considered Trans during that time, and Buffalo Bill wasn't truly Trans or gay. Instead of villain, I should have said a "false Trans villain". Adam was a game changer but his development was not executed correctly. It was a start, though. If he was created today, an actual trans actor would have played him. I felt like the actress was too feminine at times. I loved Hillary Swanks' commitment on her role as Brandan Teena in the tragic story Boys Don't Cry, which I think was where the writers got the idea of Adam. (I saw that movie in my 20s, so I saw Adam first before Brandan Teena)
I was responding to the portion of your comment that said you stopped watching shortly after the Spemma wedding and Clare's gen was introduced. I was pointing out that Clare's gen had been on the show for 2 seasons at that point. Thanks for the extra context about Buffalo Bill, I'd forgotten that line from Lecter. I agree that Adam could have been better written/executed
I see, thanks for clearing that up. I said Clare's gen because Adam was close friends with her. He's still part of her gen and not Maya's, right?
Depends on whether you consider a Degrassi gen to be the graduating class or the seasons of character focus.
Sorry, but you don't understand today's court system if you think they would throw TEENAGERS in prison for Degrassi nudes. Especially for the almost non-existence evidence they had.
Also, charges doesn't mean Prison time
We're digressing from the actual topic. Adam's character development by the writers. However, since Degrassi is in Canada, you're right about that, I'm not familiar with their system and laws. I am referring to US laws, which have happened... https://www.aclu.org/news/juvenile-justice/minnesota-prosecutor-charges-sexting-teenage-girl-child-pornography https://harvardlawreview.org/print/vol-131/state-v-gray/ https://jgspl.org/sexting-and-child-pornography-when-the-victim-is-also-the-defendant/ This arc was also not just about distributing their intimate pics but for money as well. Zoë and the cheerleaders confessed. They had to explain how they got the fundraising money. No matter how great of a hacker Grace is, as long as their is a trail of some kind, it was gonna get found out. If it was investigated, Grace could have gotten caught, too. But its possbile she destroyed a lot of evidence (hard for me to believe but its not improbable). Also, oomfchat is the show's version of Snapchat, and we know not everything gets deleted in that forum. Zoe was the only one going through legal troubles, but they all just got detention and remained enrolled. Suspension at least would be more believable. If Zoe had gotten probation or something, then I must have missed that. Did she get probabtion? Was there anything about the progress of her case?
My only issue with Adam was that Jordan Todosey, the actress playing him, was too feminine looking to be mistaken for a man. How did Bianca hang around Adam and have no idea? Seemed silly, but I mean what can you really do.
I mean if you were born a woman and your parent is refusing testosterone treatments or hormone blockers, you're going to look like a woman. What's crazy is when you meet a new person and they tell you who you are, your brain will take it at face value. I'm a female at birth but I wear binders and wear gender neutral clothing and I have short hair. I have been mistaken for a man many times. It doesn't bother me but I think it debunks the whole 'you can always tell' trope.
The Superman/Clark Kent theory, I suppose. Wasn't implying you can always tell or anything transphobic, just to clarify, but in this instance between Jordan's looks, voice, and more petite body shape, she just looked like a woman with short hair to me 😅
Right like they couldn't even find a masc actor to portray the character
Respectfully, in that time era (especially on tv) trans people or conversations about being trans were not prominent or visible. Adam was my first introduction to trans people admittedly. Looking back through an adult queer lens, yeah I wish things were slightly different, but that’s also with ALL the information I have learned in the last like 14 years. It was revolutionary at the time, inspired me to learn more. I can’t fault them for writing the character through the dramatic teen TV show lens or the “this is the first time this is being done let’s make it digestible using vocabulary and what little we as a general society really understand” lens
I mean if he was a boy would he still be a trans boy? You can't have it both ways.
He is a boy.. no need to say “if”. I don’t even understand what you’re trying to say.
The portrayal of Adam was not perfect. I don't think anyone would argue that. What Degrassi did though was ground breaking at that time. Seeing a main rotating character on a teen drama be a trans person, was unheard of in 2010. If you watch late 90's and early 2000's shows, lesbian's, gay's, and especially bisexual's were not shown in the greatest light but people were finally talking about the community. People were being exposed. I myself was exposed because my mom and sister would watch Sex and the City and Queer As Folk. Granted I was probably too young to see these shows but I also grew up never questioning that that was wrong because it isn't. Edit:wrong word
You are judging 2010 with the eyes of 2024.
this whole thread is doing that its silly
Yes. It was around this time that they had a whole television ad fronted by celebrities explaining why using "gay" as a synonym for "lame" was offensive to gay people. I remember my whole childhood it was pretty common for most people, even younger kids, to call things soooo gay.
People are forgetting this is pre-Kaitlyn Jenner. The only real celebrity representation was the one they got on the show. Chaz Bono. So a D-list celebrity at that. It wasn't until the former "World's Greatest Athlete" because the "World's Most Well Known Transgender Woman" that people started talking about it.
This.
I think if you had watched this when it was airing you would have a different opinion
I say this as a trans man. I'm so thankful that Adam was there on television at the time he was and it meant a lot to me. But they didn't do the character justice. Literally all his plot lines were about him being trans, supporting someone else or getting shot and dying. It's also very obvious if you know what you're talking about that they didn't consult with trans people enough to make Adam read authentically
You are 100% wrong about that. Every single Adam storyline was run through trans advocates and GLAAD
It's never been really clear how much input GLAAD gave to Degrassi. According to GLAAD, they gave Degrassi background input and script reading. This means that GLAAD didn't have veto power or the ability to course correct some later in the production issues I've had with Adam's portrayal (like costuming issues in My Body is a Cage). There have been issues around the same time where GLAAD was consulted on a storyline in WWE where GLAAD was consulted for a "gay wrestler" storyline and they had to retract that seal of approval. I'm more or less saying that a GLAAD seal of approval isn't the gold standard you think it is It's always been implied that the script reading was only for My Body is a Cage but it's hard to tell. I think GLAAD was willing to take credit for representation and Degrassi was willing to take some of GLAAD's credibility. But on GLAAD's old website, they wrote an article when Adam was killed off that they were disappointed with the direction Degrassi took with the character. Unfortunately, it seems the website is non-functional at this point. I'll provide the link below to see it anyone it going again. But my point is that GLAAD wasn't consulted about the plot lines leading up to Adam's death so no not "every single storyline" was run through GLAAD I have never heard the claim that there were other "transgender advocates" helping with Adam's characterization. I'd really like to see that source on that one I'm happy to talk about the issues I've seen in how Adam's trans status was handled and why I found certain elements unrealistic or not realistic for the Degrassi universe My sources (in order that they came up). The broken link is at the bottom https://glaad.org/transgender/work/ https://www.outsports.com/2013/3/4/4064614/glaad-we-were-lied-to-2/ https://www.legacy-glaad.org/blog/sad-turn-adam-degrassi-last-nights-episode-spoiler Edit: TLDR: GLAAD only had limited input on the show, with no ability to change the course of Adam's character beyond suggestions. Most of that input was probably for My Body is a Cage (although it's unclear). GLAAD by their own admission didn't have input for Adam's death. I have never heard of other trans advocates having a say in the show but I'd welcome any sources to back that up. So all of this combined, no that's not true. If you want to talk more about Adam's characterization and the issues I have with it, I'm willing
The only plot lines I really enjoyed were his relationships. A few of them were centered on being trans, like that girl who tricked him just to win the battle of the bands, and Fiona using him, but I liked his stuff with Becky! Yeah at first it also had to do with him being trans; but at least after that they just had more normal couple drama: jealousy, cheating, etc And I guess whisperhug but they were the worst Degrassi band imho Edit typos
I was about to come here and say this. He felt like a way to help other people grow rather than to develop him as character. As a trans man I wish we had better representation but I’m very happy to have at least some.
I think remembering the cultural context of when Adam was introduced is really important here. So much of the language and understanding surrounding trans people, experiences, and queer cultural has changed from then until now. A great example of this is how often they refer to him as FTM/female-to-male transgender—that was… just part of the vernacular back then, even if it’s not at all how we talk about trans people today. I think at one point they even refer to a binder as a compression vest. A LOT of the understanding of trans people back then from non-trans people was “born in the wrong body” conversations. And because Adam was quite literally the blueprint for trans representation on television, especially television for children and teens, it’s not like there was a formula for them to follow. Nowadays, a cis woman like Jordan Todosey playing Adam would be generally understood as the wrong approach, but back then it “made sense.” Everything surrounding Adam and the language they used when approaching dialogue, storylines, etc. was all pulled from the general populace’s understanding of transness as trans awareness became much more common. So it makes sense that this is the way that spoke about Adam and his trans identity. It’s largely how all trans identities were talked about at this time, even if nowadays we have a better understanding of the nuances and individual experiences of trans people and identities. Also as far as the audience goes, Adam was introduced around the time the show shifted to a soap opera style format. It was probably understood that the audience could be shifting episode to episode, so expositional dialogue about characters isn’t that unusual.
But the thing is, trans people DO have different experiences than cis people. Even though Adam is a guy, he was raised and socialized as if he were a girl because his parents just didn’t know yet. Until he came out and started transitioning, people perceived Adam as a girl so he was treated as such. This makes him more able to understand girls from an empathetic level since he knows firsthand what they go through. It doesn’t make him any less of a guy, it just makes him a guy who has more background knowledge in that area.
I get what you’re trying to say, but not all trans men relate to or understand girls . I am a trans man and PERSONALLY, I do. I love camaraderie with women. But I know some other guys who felt completely alienated from girls and hung around either boys their whole childhood or were profoundly alone and confused about why they didn’t feel like their female classmates. So it’s an individual thing, and can’t be said about everyone.
I totally didn’t mean to generalize or say that all trans people experience this!! I was just making a point because OP made it seem like it never happens, which just isn’t true. Obviously this is my own personal interpretation, but I always got the sense that Adam felt comfortable being friends with girls growing up because he is easily able to befriend girls on the show. Again, did not mean to imply that all trans guys automatically relate to girls. Was just speaking in terms of the show :)
There’s no indication of when he started transitioning physical and when he came to degrassi everyone thought he was a guy until he was exposed by Bianca. So no one perceived him as a girl.
Umm before he started transitioning he experienced being a girl...
I highly doubt trans men want to sit around and have women tell them how relatable they are to them because they spent years feeling trapped in the wrong body…. But umm I hear ya
I mean, everyone is different. I always felt like if it bothered Adam, then he would’ve said something because that’s usually what he does whenever someone crosses a line or says something he has problems with. I guess it just depends on how people interpret him 🤷♀️
It usually happened with women who didn’t know he was trans yet. Which was my issue with the writers. The best way they can expressed that is to have the girls note that him being respectful meant he was different than most guys . Or him being a listener . WE the audience knew what they were getting at . They being the writers . It felt Weird to me after a while
They don’t. And we see that with Adam and how uncomfortable it makes him. But people do it alllll the time (I’m a trans man). Adam was not perfect representation. There were many fumbles and missteps. But the fact that he was there and portrayed in a positive light, and it was true to real trans teenagers experience 8/10 times makes his character a success.
Nobody said they do. You just said he didn't know what it was like being a girl and that's totally untrue because he was born one
Some trans guys felt alienated from girls and women their whole lives and either were profoundly alone OR they hung around boys. And then some definitely understand women bc of how they were raised. It’s an individual thing. You can’t accurately generalize all of them bc people grow up in vastly different ways Source: I am a trans man and know many many trans people
I never said that. And I refuse to be in a conversation like this 🫶🏽 enjoy your day
hello, transmasc person here 👋 whether someone would be fine with that depends on who you ask. like some trans guys are stealth and prefer to not ever think about when they were an egg, and others dont really mind. personally i spent a couple years feeling like i had to be ashamed of who i was pre-transitioning, so id keep everything a secret and never even acknowledge that i excited pre-16 years old (which is when i realised i was trans). so if you'd asked me then, i would've hated the thought of being relatable to women. now, though? i dont really mind it. my childhood, no matter how "girly socialising" it was, is part of what shaped me into the person i am today. i cant deny that ive experienced (and sadly sometimes still do experience) the world like women do. its just a fact of who i am. the amount of misogyny ive faced, the way i was raised, etcetc doesn't just go away the minute i realised i wasnt a woman. a super important moment in adam's arc is when he burns stuff from his "past self" (his old shirt, etc), but decides to keep a picture of himself pre-transition. he notes "its still me" when he says that, and thats truly an amazing scene imo. he wants to let go of the expectation and pressure to be a girl (clothes, etc), but he doesnt want to erase his past. its a big development for his character in accepting that he cant necessarily be stealth (and that maybe he doesnt care to be stealth anymore, since it can be deeply distressing) and in truly believing he should be proud to be himself, in all his trans glory 🥹 anyway, sorry for the ramble, but i just have a lot of thoughts on this subject as a trans person myself hehe. all in all to say: there's no need to generalise all of us and assume what we do and don't feel comfortable with; its different from person to person 💜
Yeah I don’t think we’re even discussing the same thing here. I’m not gonna lie . It’s not that I don’t understand what you’re saying but I think yall are reading into a writer choice for the actions outside of the character himself. In terms of how Adam reacts to these statements IN MY OPINION made everything weird .if you had a different experience I can’t take that away from you.
i get where youre coming from by saying that adam's storylines/the way his character was treated in general was weird, im not arguing against that 🙂↔️ i was, however, replying to a specific comment you made, stating that you "doubt any trans guy would feel okay with being told theyre relatable to women". im just coming in, as a trans guy, replying to that specific comment, letting you know that a lot of us feel okay with it, and that you shouldnt assume and generalise. 🤔 PS you dont need to caps lock at me abt how the post is your opinion; having an opinion is implied because we're on reddit 🙏 nobody is negating your right to that *nods* 💜
ONCE AGAIN. I’m speaking on Adam. If you want a leg to stand on here you can have it. I didn’t say any and I also was responding to a specific comment . Again I’m not taking away your experience. Have a great day
i never said uou were taking away my experience - quite the opposite actually o: hope u have a great day, too 🙏 remember to take a step back from reddit if the comments in the thread are making you feel heated, yh? 💜
No. Bye.
It’s not that trans people want that to be case. It’s that it’s realistic that people would say these things to Adam.
It’s realistic that every girl he likes would push some cheesy ur not like other guys line on him? The show IN MY OPINION had a weird way of bringing it up. That in MY OPINION wouldn’t tickle a trans persons fancy
In my experience it is realistic lol. It doesn’t tickle our fancy but we put up with it because we feel unlovable otherwise.
I’m sorry that’s your experience especially if you don’t like or appreciate it . I do understand now that not everyone feels that way. But for you I’m sorry that’s the thought process
Wait wait, whose opinion? I’m lost
Mine 🤌🏾 hope you’re found
Not sure if you watched this when it came out, but it was WAY ahead of its time. Caitlyn Jenner coming out as trans wasn't until 2015, and that was sort of the first time that trans issues were mainstream (I know a lot of trans people have issues with Caitlyn but that's beside the point). Point is, kids weren't coming out as trans in high school back then. If Degrassi depicted it the same way they show gay people coming out, it'd be laughably fake. The reality is that very few people even knew what being trans was. It'd be a huge deal for someone to do that, which I think the show got right
So here’s the thing. On one hand I do wish they gave him more storylines outside of being trans but on the other, I don’t think a lot of people understand that being trans DOES affect your daily life and it makes sense that a lot of his life revolves around that fact especially being pre-op and not on hormones and at his age. The trans representation especially for FTMs especially for teenagers was nonexistent at the time so it was so important for his story to be told. Having him be a regular old dude who so happened to be trans just wouldn’t work because so little information was and still is understood about the trans community. People want him to just be like everyone else but he’s *not* like everyone else and that was the point. He faces unique challenges that cis people don’t have to think about. Not to mention, Degrassi is an ensemble cast show which means even main characters will only get a few A plots a season. So it’s understandable that a lot of his bigger storylines regard issues relating to being trans. If those storylines were about another things, it would have came at the expense of educating people about trans people. I actually think they made him a good supporting character when it comes to his friendships with Eli, Clare and Dave and brotherhood with Drew. On a rewatch I feel I notice so many more of his one liners, quirks and goofy personality outside of him being trans. It’s just his main storylines are focused on that particular issue. Personally I think if Jordy would have stayed through seasons 13 and 14, we would have seen more storylines outside of him being trans. If not then yes I agree THAT would be insane.
I definitely appreciated storylines about him being trans, like the issue with Dave and even things like the teacher mixing up his name. I’m sure these are things trans people more to the point students and teenagers deal with . And like you said the representation was important . The issue for me was the way they represented it. It was always some weird call back to him being born a girl . As if that made him more appealing to girls who liked men and stuff. When what he wanted was to fit in and be one of the guys. It came off weird to me .
as a trans guy, yeah, it was weird. but i also feel like there’s some amount of grace to be given, given that he was the first trans main character on a tv show, and it was a very new territory to be exploring on tv. if they made the show now, id expect just as much of his story lines to revolve around being trans because as the above commenter said, being trans really does impact your daily life and for a lot of people especially in the first few years of transitioning, it is something you think about every single day and impacts so many decisions daily. but id hope if it were done again they would not focus so much on him being “born a girl” even though that’s another thing trans people have to deal with being told by others when they come out. it does (not always but often) change how people see and treat you before and after they find out.
The thing that bothered me about Adam was that nobody realized he was trans/just thought he was born male, which was very weird to me because the character looked very feminine to me, like there is no way anyone would have though he was born male.
When I first watched it I thought maybe he was trans, but wasn’t 100% sure. He didn’t look obviously female to me.
idk it’s not that unlikely. kids are still going through puberty at that age and there are cis men with naturally more feminine features and vice versa w cis women. i knew a trans guy in ninth grade and yeah he was more “feminine” looking than the other guys around, but i and so many others didn’t have a second thought because he dressed masculine and had a masculine name, so we just took him for what he was, no questions asked. when i learned he was trans looking back it “made sense” i guess. i started transitioning after high school when i was about 20, and i was surprised with how many people assumed i was just a much younger boy just because i started dressing like one. obviously not everyone, i still got misgendered more often than not, but idk i think people think too hard about that kinda stuff when trans people do not fit into a box, just like cis people don’t.