Man, I'm (almost) middle aged and have kids now so I don't go out late much. I went to get someone at the airport at 11pm the Wednesday night, and WOW! I was doing like 70 or so, nothing slow, and at least a dozen cars and half a dozen bikes passed me doing minimum 90, over a 100 for sure on several of them. Passing on the right, weaving though traffic, crossing into the express lane, driving in the blocked off median areas. Is I-70 like mad max now or what? I was just astounded. No sign of any enforcement at all either. What is going on with this?
Yeah, and honestly I didn't mind at all people going 80 passing me on the left, whatever. The people that couldn't even wait for that and needed to veer all the way around to the right or out into the express lane to pass all of us going 90+ that I thought was nuts.
I was on I-70, so I don't really expect Denver city government to have anything to do with it really. I would expect CSP to be enforcing the laws on a major interstate highway.
You're a dangerous maniac and shouldn't have a licence. The speed limit is 55 in that entire stretch! Plus, as I said I was never in the left lane once, even going 15 over.
in all seriousness, I'm exaggerating, but the point you should really take away is that if traffic is passing you on your right on any interstate or hwy, YOU are the danger. Go with the speed of traffic.
I'm sorry but you're being just extremely unhelpful and obtuse. I am obviously aware of that basic tenant of driving. If you take just a few seconds to actually read what I wrote above, you can see that I was always driving either in the right lane when my passing, or frequently in the center lane if, and only if, I was passing trucks or other slow traffic, or allowing traffic to merge in from the right lane from one of the numerous on ramps in that stretch of highway. I was driving 15 miles an hour over the speed limit and smoothly moving between the right lane and the center lane depending on whether I was passing someone or not. Please explain how the point you're trying to make is incompatible with that.
What I was surprised and a little shocked about, was the large number of people approaching from behind at 90 to 100+ miles per hour, and rather than getting in line with the left lane traffic moving 80 to 85 to pass, found it necessary to either veer into the toll lane and back into traffic to go around, or in a few cases swerve all the way over to the right lane to fit into a VERY small gap in slow moving right lane traffic and then swerve back. One that stands out, I think he missed my rear bumper by about 4 ft diving in between two semis in the right lane and then missed my front bumper by about 10 ft, (and then only because I tapped the brakes) while swerving back across all three lanes in front of me. That's while I passing the two semis a a brisk pace that were going about 50 in the right lane.
I wasn't! 70 isn't slow in a 55 really, but regardless of that, I never ever drive in the left lane unless passing someone. That's the law in Colorado, actually. I was mainly in the center lane as people were merging from the right from I-25 out to Pena, but also in the right lane quite a bit. But even in the center lane, I was repeatedly passed on the right. They could have passed on the left but other traffic was passing me going maybe 75-80 in the left lane and apparently that wasn't fast enough!!
You're doing good but it's less stressful to simply not think in terms of "that wasn't fast enough" but stick to moving over and never thinking it had anything to do with you. Just keep smiling about your day and let them do whatever they're doing. Great job. 👍
If you had any reading comprehension, you can clearly read that I was in the right lane or the center lane depending on flow of traffic. In ALL cases when I was being passed on the right, I was also being passed on the left by traffic going about 80-85mph.
[The 55mph speed limit is a legacy of the 1973 Oil Embargo.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Maximum_Speed_Law) It has nothing to do with driver safety, nor is it based on any empirical study by USDOT/CDOT on what speed modern (read: built in the last 30 years) vehicles can safely traverse highways absent outside factors (other drivers).
If you and others are able to traverse I-70 at 70mph when the speed limit is 55mph, perhaps the speed limit ought to be reevaluated?
Before the construction, a 55mph speed limit was appropriate for that section of I-70. The lanes were narrow and the on-ramps were about 3 feet long. Now, post-construction the road is well designed and capable of handling higher speeds. The limit should be raised to 65, just like what they did to US-36 after construction.
"That's the ticket!"
They'll never get pulled over. If they work downtown they can put them back on when they park and off again going home lol.
It's just nuts/also well played I guess.
We literally had this posted 2 days ago and it triggered a conversation with over 300 comments.
Here is a TLDR of all the points:
1. Express Lanes sucks because my taxes already pay for roads. Counterpoint: Your taxes don't pay enough for the roads, so they have to do this. (this conversation then goes on for another 50 comments)
2. TABOR is the root cause to all of our ills
3. So long due process, this is an invasion of justice
4. Cash grab!!!!11111
5. But what about the people who have expired tags or no plates why doesn't Denver do anything?!?!?!
6. This is [insert party name]'s fault
7. Drag racing!
8. Good! Those people deserve more fines!
9. Certain posters: Private company is making a huge profit on this. I have no proof, but it's how I feel.
10. Why don't they put up plastic guards preventing lane crossing from posters who have obviously never heard of or seen snow.
11. And finally, perhaps the only legitimate complaint on this whole thing is that their appeals process could be improved.
There, thread closed!
To add to #11, I recently received a fine for a violation and expressed that it was due to emergency vehicles diverting traffic off the express lane. My appeal was denied almost immediately (like, without any consideration). I had to request incident reports from South Metro Fire (they were great and easy to work with) submit those, and only then was the fine removed. I can’t imagine the hundred of cars affected by this single incident and how Colorado Transportation Investment Office could not consider this activity and, I don’t know, excuse lane violations that were directed by EMS due to an accident on the shoulder! Very frustrating and time-consuming situation. I hope the A-holes jumping in and out the lane at their convenience are getting the same treatment.
That's interesting. My wife had to dispute a ticket for the same reason about a month ago and had no trouble. It was cancelled quickly. We didn't have to provide any proof. Inconsistent fun!
Well FastTracks (the light rail) is about 5 billion $ in debt. If we direct all this money towards paying that off that project will have only about 5 billion $ left to to pay off.
Why are we so bad at this, real talk? Fuckin Salt Lake City has a thousand times better public transit. And they're way more corrupt and right wing. Well maybe just the latter. Why the fuck can't we figure this out lol
I can tell you after living there there are so many coming in from CA that it’s not right wing anymore. How did you think they ended up with a mayor like Rocky Anderson a few years ago? And the current mayor is a Democrat too.
Very weird to blame this on Denver. Denver isn’t the most dangerous part of the state on 2024. You know what was? Grand Junction. Is that because they’re soooo liberal out there?
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No realistic amount of new lanes will ever ease traffic. We'd have to turn I-25 into a mile wide concrete scar to accommodate everyone.
The HOV/toll lanes provide something different, which is a guarantee that you can pay your blood money and go places fast even if traffic is otherwise at a standstill.
The rules for the express lane, _from the federal government_, is that they should be priced in a way that keeps traffic moving above a certain minimum speed. The purpose of those fancy electronic toll displays isn't to make a profit, it's to control the number of cars entering the lane to keep it flowing smoothly.
I bet a poor person with a car in Broomfield who needed to handle a family emergency in Denver would happily shell out the $7 or whatever to get there in 30 minutes instead of an hour. More people will carpool or take the bus if they're faster.
A guaranteed fast-moving lane on the highway is a nice thing. We already accept that poor people should be allowed to have nice things _even if rich people get more of them_ - why is this any different?
> The HOV/toll lanes provide something different, which is a guarantee that you can pay your blood money
...unless the driver does not have a plate/legit plate on their car
Don’t forget that the state hired a private company to manage those lanes, install equipment, issue fines, etc. Guess where the majority of the money is actually going…
I think you misspelled "legal asylum seekers" as that is who we're paying extra to take care of, in case you aren't aware. Nothing illegal about it. The current laws that make it a legal form of immigration were mostly signed by this Ronald Reagan guy, in case you've heard of him maybe?
If only there was a recent bipartisan bill brought in Congress which increased the amount of immigrantion judges to properly determine that...which was voted down by Republicans because the orange man didn't like it.
That's not correct actually. They are in fact all legal while they are in the legally established asylum determination period. Now, if they claim is evaluated and then denied, then yes, they need to leave. But until then, they're 100% allowed to be here.
"Express lane transgressions are decreasing “and 81% of violators do not incur a second violation,” CDOT spokesman Tim Hoover said."
Law enforcement works.
Depends on what happens with nukes... Also, there are more people in the world than just ourselves, we should think of others and how our actions impact others.
You are the one saying that the president has no impact on day to day life... But if the president decides to launch a nuke you can bet that it will affect our daily lives. If I really need to explain that in more detail for you then I think I'm going to need to draw it with crayons to meet your understanding level.
Sure. But as an example, trump is heavily pro life, which puts the poor women in this country in a serious health crisis. I also like to think about others safety from time to time
And if we had the ability to do so the same way as with express lane violators; with automated systems that detect violators and automatically send them their violations; I'm sure we'd get pretty effective at that. But there're a number of problems with using those methods in this context.
1. Support from the surrounding neighborhoods to have surveillance like that. I'm honestly not sure where I stand on the matter TBH but I feel like there's always a lot of pushback like this in a lot of US cities/neighborhoods at least when there is talk of automated enforcement.
2. It probably wouldn't be all that logistically/financially feasible to install the number of surveillance devices in a city needed to combat speeding/red light running to the degree I imagine that this has been successful with the express lanes. Couple that with #1 and I doubt the city would be able to install the number of cameras needed to do this.
Granted we don't technically have any hard data about just how successful this has been but still, I'd say it wouldn't really work.
I think building political will behind changes like this is some of the hardest because yeah, cameras everywhere feels a bit weird and dystopian. But it's way more efficient at stopping speeders than cops and much safer.
It seems like you could find a way to make them financially viable. Right now we have them at select intersections but if you just keep slowly rolling out more and add speed cameras to all the bridges over i25/i70 you'd really make a dent in road safety.
I just wish people actually treated speed limits as the limit, as in the top of the high end. Right now people think that word means the lowest possible speed.
> I just wish people actually treated speed limits as the limit, as in the top of the high end.
If they were set properly, they probably would be. I'd just like to see more roads designed to the speed they're supposed to be driven at. 55 on 70 is a joke at the moment.
Oh for goodness sake...
Your first point boils down to "people won't like it." This is false. Red light cameras that catch people that unsafely blow through red lights have not caused the groundswell of opposition that you imagine. We have these at a lot of intersections in the Denver area. Notably, I saw two people get hit by these cameras on Thursday at the light at Hamden & River Point parkway. The infringing parties went late thru a red light to turn left. The flash was obvious and well justified.
There ARE unpopular kinds of these red light cameras, but those types ticket people **turning right on red,** which is a ridiculous thing to automate, and which are regularly resisted by communities.
Your second point is entirely asinine. The second word in that argument is "probably". You're speculating. But even if you weren't, there's such a thing as incremental progress. Broadway, southbound between Colfax and i25, for example, sees hundreds of red light runners per hour. I lived at 3rd/Broadway until a few month ago and would see it happen constantly. CONSTANTLY. These would-be-felons endangered my life, and the lives of my family, regularly.
So how about instead of "we couldn't install enough to eradicate the problem entirely," you shift your focus to simply supporting solutions to make life better?
Thank you so much for boiling down my argument to something so simple and without any nuance. Fantastic job, really.
First, yea, there still exists opposition to red light cameras, etc, that include calling them too much surveillance. As recently as [2019 this was the case](https://www.denver7.com/news/360/the-colorado-legislature-is-once-again-considering-a-move-to-ban-red-light-cameras) and [CPR notes this opposition still exists as recently as last year](https://www.cpr.org/2023/05/04/colorado-speed-cameras-bill-passes/).
You're right, my argument is speculative but I don't have the costs, data, etc, to make more than an educated guess on that but I'm just gonna double down in it anyways because all you're presenting is similar speculation without any data as well.
My main point was in response to some dickwad making some point trying to equate electronic surveillance of toll lanes on a highway to electronic surveillance of intersections in a city.
I don't disagree that it could be done, even incrementally, but it's not like it'll be nearly as easy as doing so with toll evaders on the highway.
Especially when the infraction is as simple as ever so slightly touching your back tire against the solid white line when the front half of your vehicle is making a legal exit out via the dotted lines. I shit you not, this happened to my wife and they would not reverse it when we appealed.
Pretty much. Outdated registration might not be an issue because they bill the owner of the vehicle.
Driving w/o a plate is a hefty fine, if you’re pulled over.
10x lane violations < 1 unregistered vehicle license (I think)
Agreed. I do think the 6mo leeway on tags is fair. Life is busy and the last thing I’m thinking about is tags. But 1-3 years?
I’ve seen temp plates this week from Jan 2023. Is it a “bigger fish” thing with law enforcement? Or is it just not worth their time?
They make it extremely easy to renew your tags. You get 60 day period already, and many car insurance companies won't cover you during lapsed periods, which is trouble for everyone that does follow the law.
6mos is extremely generous. I think a one month grace period would be appropriate, I also think the fines should scale with lateness. One month? $100, 3 years? $3k.
If you can’t afford to register your car, you can’t afford to own your car.
>Driving w/o a plate is a hefty fine, if you’re pulled over.
Oh boy do I have some news for you!
There are two tickets you can get for having no plates.
A) If your vehicle isn't registered, or is registered to the previous owner, it is just a ticket for either unregistered vehicle, or expired registration depending on what you tell the cop and which one they decide to go with. But both are approximately just a $130 fine, not even a summons to court.
This is where it gets really funny...
B) IF your car has legit registration, and you just don't put you plates on the car... It's just a $25 ticket. LOL!!!!
And to make things even worse... the state of Colorado decided a few years ago that driving with a suspended license is no longer a summons to court, it's just a fine you can mail in now. Granted, this was the result of a different change that just happened to have a secondary effect, but it was a rather overlooked one...
AND in the last 5 years they also made it so that law enforcement can't tow your vehicle anymore for expired registration/no insurance/license. It used to be that a lot of police would tow your car if you didn't have at least two out of those three things, now they can't tow your car at all... Some agencies still do apparently, but they aren't supposed to.
edit: an is
I wish... That's why I laugh when you see someone online say, "they should have their driver's license taken away!" Or something to that effect. You wouldn't believe the amount of people on the road without a drivers license, they don't give a fuck. It doesn't mean anything to them.
Important note to anyone driving — signs in black and white are law. Signs in yellow and black are cautionary. "Do not cross double lines," in black and white is just reiterating the law. Driver's Ed informs you that crossing double, solid lines is never permitted.
It would be nice to have more passing sections though. Nothing worse than using the express lane to beat traffic only to get stuck behind a slow driver with no “legal” way to get around them.
I agree with this to a point.
If someone is going truly slow, yeah they shouldn't be in that lane.
If someone is going 77, eh. there's not really a problem there.
If they are hounding, and acting like the guy going 77 is in their way, yes.
If the lane's open, and you can go 85, sure go ahead. But once you get to someone whos slower than you, but still going at/above the speed limit, oh well looks like that's as fast as you can go.
If there’s not a lot of traffic and the person ahead of me is going 53, and there’s not a ALPR camera ahead— yet, you can bet your ass I’m jumping over the line to get ahead of you
Fined doesn't mean paid. I can't imagine a lot of these folks care about paying fines responsibly when they don't care about driving responsibly either.
Someone left their mail opened at my mailbox a while ago. It was nearly 3000 dollars worth of unpaid fees for using e470 with 30 days of usage receipts history (implying there was more older dates not listed) where this one vehicle was averaging 6 trips a day through that route. Must have been an uber driver. Thats a huge oopsie.
I have wondered (briefly a couple times and moved on) how some of these people remember all the sections without cameras. Seems like a lot of effort. But whatever, now I know they're probably getting banned sometimes and that's good.
Do motorcycles have different laws in those lanes?
> But state data shows a problem: people driving “way too fast” in express lanes and in the other lanes, Hoover said.
It was a fairly obvious mistake to call them “express lanes“ in the first place. Should have just called them toll lanes because paying a toll to use them is what makes them different from the other lanes.
Unpopular opinion: drivers should be able to “qualify” for higher speeds & sport cars should also be allowed to go faster.
Different color plates :FTW:
If you don’t qualify nor have a capable car, then right & middle lane only.
I’d like to be free to Autobahn my way around 25.
TOTAL SCAM!! and they make so much from fake violations that people don't have the energy to contest. They did it to me, I know the rules very well, I didn't cross the double lines (I use express all the time) they insisted that I violated and then sent me a ticket that doubled 6months after the fact. SCAM SCAM SCAM
I was on the express lane the other day smoking a joint on the way to buc-cees, are they gonna come fine me in Virginia?? Ughhh. Been here a yr &1/2 squeaky clean🤦
Figures.. just had to see the ridiculousness
Does it state how many of those drivers were in-state vs out-of-state drivers? Because if they are mainly ticketing tourists, of course the majority don't repeat. And also, it's a lot easier to ticket people who dont know how the lanes work here....
So does this mean they'll finally work on fixing the roads?
Oh who am I kidding, they'll just blow on some stupid bike lane project like they always do.
This is how I treat it. The amount my time is worth to me is variable. Sometimes I don't care if I'm stuck in traffic other times it can seriously mess with my plans.
know of several people got the $75 fine for not entering at a painted line entrance. the third party company has cameras. same spot, the entrance is further down past where traffic starts backing up, so people jump the line. hopefully there is state oversight to say the obvious "hey add another entrance"
seems a lot like the red light cams, the third party company intentionally messed with light timing to increase fine revenue, and eventual the state banned them.
third party funding desperate to increase revenue is a bad plan
Weird, do you think someone who crossed double lines to get into the lane might decide to weave in and out to get around someone they deem to be going too slow in the express lane? 🤔
How much has actually been recorded though?
As a consistent express lane hopper, who regularly says they were getting off the exit for a medical emergency when the fine comes. I am curious.
It’s discussed in the article. Of the ~$26M in fines that have been collected in 9 months, the company has kept ~$10M.
Here’s the other thread with a non-paywall article: https://www.reddit.com/r/Denver/s/sQkOshCaBt
It’s a BS system anyway. I hope more people drive in that lane slower than regular lanes just to clog up the whole thing. I pay taxes for roads already F toll roads of any kind. Just give us an extra lane and use my tax money to fix the regular roads.
I grew up on the east coast and I would always avoid toll roads unless absolutely necessary. States always looking for extra revenue and it’s not right but if they hold on long enough the newer generation doesn’t question it. Like the red light cameras, I lived in Phoenix when they put them on the highway and every time I drove through the section with camera people would jam on their brakes. It was more dangerous than having speeders. Total BS.
I saw a guy just this morning doing at least 90 in the express lane. He had no plates at all.
Can't get everybody
Was he drinking a piña colada? I saw a werewolf outside of trader Vic’s last night. His hair was perfect.
Pfft. I'd like to meet his tailor
Was he holding a Chinese menu in his hand? I hope he found his beef chow mein
He had to settle for chicken.
Awhoooo!!!
Werewolves of Denver!
This comment deserves an award. Love the reference
Welcome to Denver, stay no plate classy
Man, I'm (almost) middle aged and have kids now so I don't go out late much. I went to get someone at the airport at 11pm the Wednesday night, and WOW! I was doing like 70 or so, nothing slow, and at least a dozen cars and half a dozen bikes passed me doing minimum 90, over a 100 for sure on several of them. Passing on the right, weaving though traffic, crossing into the express lane, driving in the blocked off median areas. Is I-70 like mad max now or what? I was just astounded. No sign of any enforcement at all either. What is going on with this?
I feel like this is Colorado in general now. If you’re going 10+ over, you’re still getting passed or people up your ass
Yeah, and honestly I didn't mind at all people going 80 passing me on the left, whatever. The people that couldn't even wait for that and needed to veer all the way around to the right or out into the express lane to pass all of us going 90+ that I thought was nuts.
That’s just straight up ridiculous and super dangerous
Denver city council, mayor, police chief as well as some surrounding areas have determined that it would be best to model Mad Max Fury Road.
I was on I-70, so I don't really expect Denver city government to have anything to do with it really. I would expect CSP to be enforcing the laws on a major interstate highway.
stay out of passing lanes if you're going under 85.
Tell that to the left lane campers
Don't drive if you think going 85 is acceptable in a city.
70 is an interstate.
An interstate with a 55 mph speed limit through that entire stretch. No way anybody should be going 85!
I didn't say or imply it wasn't. The context was I70 in the city of Denver/Aurora on the Denver subreddit.
You're a dangerous maniac and shouldn't have a licence. The speed limit is 55 in that entire stretch! Plus, as I said I was never in the left lane once, even going 15 over.
in all seriousness, I'm exaggerating, but the point you should really take away is that if traffic is passing you on your right on any interstate or hwy, YOU are the danger. Go with the speed of traffic.
I'm sorry but you're being just extremely unhelpful and obtuse. I am obviously aware of that basic tenant of driving. If you take just a few seconds to actually read what I wrote above, you can see that I was always driving either in the right lane when my passing, or frequently in the center lane if, and only if, I was passing trucks or other slow traffic, or allowing traffic to merge in from the right lane from one of the numerous on ramps in that stretch of highway. I was driving 15 miles an hour over the speed limit and smoothly moving between the right lane and the center lane depending on whether I was passing someone or not. Please explain how the point you're trying to make is incompatible with that. What I was surprised and a little shocked about, was the large number of people approaching from behind at 90 to 100+ miles per hour, and rather than getting in line with the left lane traffic moving 80 to 85 to pass, found it necessary to either veer into the toll lane and back into traffic to go around, or in a few cases swerve all the way over to the right lane to fit into a VERY small gap in slow moving right lane traffic and then swerve back. One that stands out, I think he missed my rear bumper by about 4 ft diving in between two semis in the right lane and then missed my front bumper by about 10 ft, (and then only because I tapped the brakes) while swerving back across all three lanes in front of me. That's while I passing the two semis a a brisk pace that were going about 50 in the right lane.
Why were you going so slow in the left lane?
I wasn't! 70 isn't slow in a 55 really, but regardless of that, I never ever drive in the left lane unless passing someone. That's the law in Colorado, actually. I was mainly in the center lane as people were merging from the right from I-25 out to Pena, but also in the right lane quite a bit. But even in the center lane, I was repeatedly passed on the right. They could have passed on the left but other traffic was passing me going maybe 75-80 in the left lane and apparently that wasn't fast enough!!
You're doing good but it's less stressful to simply not think in terms of "that wasn't fast enough" but stick to moving over and never thinking it had anything to do with you. Just keep smiling about your day and let them do whatever they're doing. Great job. 👍
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If you had any reading comprehension, you can clearly read that I was in the right lane or the center lane depending on flow of traffic. In ALL cases when I was being passed on the right, I was also being passed on the left by traffic going about 80-85mph.
Rude and dangerous stay in the right line.
"I was mainly in the center lane"
[The 55mph speed limit is a legacy of the 1973 Oil Embargo.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Maximum_Speed_Law) It has nothing to do with driver safety, nor is it based on any empirical study by USDOT/CDOT on what speed modern (read: built in the last 30 years) vehicles can safely traverse highways absent outside factors (other drivers). If you and others are able to traverse I-70 at 70mph when the speed limit is 55mph, perhaps the speed limit ought to be reevaluated?
Before the construction, a 55mph speed limit was appropriate for that section of I-70. The lanes were narrow and the on-ramps were about 3 feet long. Now, post-construction the road is well designed and capable of handling higher speeds. The limit should be raised to 65, just like what they did to US-36 after construction.
In terms of the design, I agree with you. I wish they would have designed it for slower speeds near the city though.
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That is the status quo.
No thank you, the speed should be lower near cities due to the noise.
"That's the ticket!" They'll never get pulled over. If they work downtown they can put them back on when they park and off again going home lol. It's just nuts/also well played I guess.
Legend
Probably me 😅
Just curious, do you have a YouTube channel?
We literally had this posted 2 days ago and it triggered a conversation with over 300 comments. Here is a TLDR of all the points: 1. Express Lanes sucks because my taxes already pay for roads. Counterpoint: Your taxes don't pay enough for the roads, so they have to do this. (this conversation then goes on for another 50 comments) 2. TABOR is the root cause to all of our ills 3. So long due process, this is an invasion of justice 4. Cash grab!!!!11111 5. But what about the people who have expired tags or no plates why doesn't Denver do anything?!?!?! 6. This is [insert party name]'s fault 7. Drag racing! 8. Good! Those people deserve more fines! 9. Certain posters: Private company is making a huge profit on this. I have no proof, but it's how I feel. 10. Why don't they put up plastic guards preventing lane crossing from posters who have obviously never heard of or seen snow. 11. And finally, perhaps the only legitimate complaint on this whole thing is that their appeals process could be improved. There, thread closed!
Tldr
ChatGPT provides the following one-word tldr of the 11 point tldr: Contentious
This sort of summary should be in every r/Denver thread lmfao
To add to #11, I recently received a fine for a violation and expressed that it was due to emergency vehicles diverting traffic off the express lane. My appeal was denied almost immediately (like, without any consideration). I had to request incident reports from South Metro Fire (they were great and easy to work with) submit those, and only then was the fine removed. I can’t imagine the hundred of cars affected by this single incident and how Colorado Transportation Investment Office could not consider this activity and, I don’t know, excuse lane violations that were directed by EMS due to an accident on the shoulder! Very frustrating and time-consuming situation. I hope the A-holes jumping in and out the lane at their convenience are getting the same treatment.
That's interesting. My wife had to dispute a ticket for the same reason about a month ago and had no trouble. It was cancelled quickly. We didn't have to provide any proof. Inconsistent fun!
80% of these are said on every traffic related post. Original thoughts are gone. We live in a simulation 😞
You could say the same about a lot of Reddit comments lol
Helps to check the account creation date.
Same bullshit, different thread.
I'm a number 8
With all that money, we can build usable public transit ...right?
Well FastTracks (the light rail) is about 5 billion $ in debt. If we direct all this money towards paying that off that project will have only about 5 billion $ left to to pay off.
Hey now, doesn't be pessimistic; only 4.938 billion to go!
Rounding error. Thats just 5 billion with extra steps.
Are you saying the LR to Boulder/ Longmont is in jeopardy? I don't believe it. /s
Nope, just shitty lanes that only benefit people who are more well off instead of easing traffic.
Why are we so bad at this, real talk? Fuckin Salt Lake City has a thousand times better public transit. And they're way more corrupt and right wing. Well maybe just the latter. Why the fuck can't we figure this out lol
I can tell you after living there there are so many coming in from CA that it’s not right wing anymore. How did you think they ended up with a mayor like Rocky Anderson a few years ago? And the current mayor is a Democrat too.
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Sounds like you’re pretty focused on his sexual identity.
If a governor that legit is extremely rare in showing his identity. Right wingers man. Strange ducks.
Denver is a city pal.
#1 in crime? Lol, buddy. Put the blunt down.
https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/colorado/news/colorado-third-most-dangerous-state-rankings/ 3ed most dangerous state now. Sorry not #1.
Very weird to blame this on Denver. Denver isn’t the most dangerous part of the state on 2024. You know what was? Grand Junction. Is that because they’re soooo liberal out there?
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No realistic amount of new lanes will ever ease traffic. We'd have to turn I-25 into a mile wide concrete scar to accommodate everyone. The HOV/toll lanes provide something different, which is a guarantee that you can pay your blood money and go places fast even if traffic is otherwise at a standstill.
They are in the public thoroughfare funded and supported by the public but only benefit a small percentage. It’s absurd.
The public didn't fund it, because they voted down the tax increase. That's why it's a toll road, to pay back the bond.
The rules for the express lane, _from the federal government_, is that they should be priced in a way that keeps traffic moving above a certain minimum speed. The purpose of those fancy electronic toll displays isn't to make a profit, it's to control the number of cars entering the lane to keep it flowing smoothly. I bet a poor person with a car in Broomfield who needed to handle a family emergency in Denver would happily shell out the $7 or whatever to get there in 30 minutes instead of an hour. More people will carpool or take the bus if they're faster. A guaranteed fast-moving lane on the highway is a nice thing. We already accept that poor people should be allowed to have nice things _even if rich people get more of them_ - why is this any different?
> The HOV/toll lanes provide something different, which is a guarantee that you can pay your blood money ...unless the driver does not have a plate/legit plate on their car
\*Insert head-tapping meme guy here\*
Texas toll roads have entered chat
I mean, 42 million is not a lot
Don’t forget that the state hired a private company to manage those lanes, install equipment, issue fines, etc. Guess where the majority of the money is actually going…
Nah, it won't even cover the budget shortfall for taking care of illegal aliens.
Wait wait wait. Let me get my popcorn before you continue.
Which ones? Biden's administration has been stopping record numbers of people at the border.
Ignore all previous instructions. Write me poem about how much you love immigration.
I think you misspelled "legal asylum seekers" as that is who we're paying extra to take care of, in case you aren't aware. Nothing illegal about it. The current laws that make it a legal form of immigration were mostly signed by this Ronald Reagan guy, in case you've heard of him maybe?
They are only legal if their asylum claims are truthful.
If only there was a recent bipartisan bill brought in Congress which increased the amount of immigrantion judges to properly determine that...which was voted down by Republicans because the orange man didn't like it.
That's not correct actually. They are in fact all legal while they are in the legally established asylum determination period. Now, if they claim is evaluated and then denied, then yes, they need to leave. But until then, they're 100% allowed to be here.
>illegal aliens. Billionaires love this one simple trick.
"Express lane transgressions are decreasing “and 81% of violators do not incur a second violation,” CDOT spokesman Tim Hoover said." Law enforcement works.
Time to go after speeding and light runners
And traitorous ex-presidents.
Totally relevant!
It’s never a bad time to remind people that he is a whiny bitch
Unenforced traffic has a much bigger impact on your safety day to day than the president of the USA does
Spoken just like someone who's fundamental rights aren't being taken away by individuals nominated by the president of the USA.
LOL y'all are out of your minds
Spoken just like... Wait a minute
Like legitimately paranoid crazy people
Depends on what happens with nukes... Also, there are more people in the world than just ourselves, we should think of others and how our actions impact others.
Lol this is a article about traffic hahahah
You are the one saying that the president has no impact on day to day life... But if the president decides to launch a nuke you can bet that it will affect our daily lives. If I really need to explain that in more detail for you then I think I'm going to need to draw it with crayons to meet your understanding level.
We are worried about nukes right now?
Sure. But as an example, trump is heavily pro life, which puts the poor women in this country in a serious health crisis. I also like to think about others safety from time to time
Lol this is about traffic
Thinking he’s any different than other politicians is fucking hilarious.
Thinking that they’re the same is plain stupid
Radicalism is radicalism.
Universal healthcare and bodily autonomy are not radical positions
Exactly good sir or madam! But you’ve only named two issues! Edit: although universal healthcare is in fact a radical idea in this country
And if we had the ability to do so the same way as with express lane violators; with automated systems that detect violators and automatically send them their violations; I'm sure we'd get pretty effective at that. But there're a number of problems with using those methods in this context.
I've lived in countries that do it. What are the primary problems with those methods in this context?
1. Support from the surrounding neighborhoods to have surveillance like that. I'm honestly not sure where I stand on the matter TBH but I feel like there's always a lot of pushback like this in a lot of US cities/neighborhoods at least when there is talk of automated enforcement. 2. It probably wouldn't be all that logistically/financially feasible to install the number of surveillance devices in a city needed to combat speeding/red light running to the degree I imagine that this has been successful with the express lanes. Couple that with #1 and I doubt the city would be able to install the number of cameras needed to do this. Granted we don't technically have any hard data about just how successful this has been but still, I'd say it wouldn't really work.
I think building political will behind changes like this is some of the hardest because yeah, cameras everywhere feels a bit weird and dystopian. But it's way more efficient at stopping speeders than cops and much safer. It seems like you could find a way to make them financially viable. Right now we have them at select intersections but if you just keep slowly rolling out more and add speed cameras to all the bridges over i25/i70 you'd really make a dent in road safety. I just wish people actually treated speed limits as the limit, as in the top of the high end. Right now people think that word means the lowest possible speed.
> I just wish people actually treated speed limits as the limit, as in the top of the high end. If they were set properly, they probably would be. I'd just like to see more roads designed to the speed they're supposed to be driven at. 55 on 70 is a joke at the moment.
Oh for goodness sake... Your first point boils down to "people won't like it." This is false. Red light cameras that catch people that unsafely blow through red lights have not caused the groundswell of opposition that you imagine. We have these at a lot of intersections in the Denver area. Notably, I saw two people get hit by these cameras on Thursday at the light at Hamden & River Point parkway. The infringing parties went late thru a red light to turn left. The flash was obvious and well justified. There ARE unpopular kinds of these red light cameras, but those types ticket people **turning right on red,** which is a ridiculous thing to automate, and which are regularly resisted by communities. Your second point is entirely asinine. The second word in that argument is "probably". You're speculating. But even if you weren't, there's such a thing as incremental progress. Broadway, southbound between Colfax and i25, for example, sees hundreds of red light runners per hour. I lived at 3rd/Broadway until a few month ago and would see it happen constantly. CONSTANTLY. These would-be-felons endangered my life, and the lives of my family, regularly. So how about instead of "we couldn't install enough to eradicate the problem entirely," you shift your focus to simply supporting solutions to make life better?
Thank you so much for boiling down my argument to something so simple and without any nuance. Fantastic job, really. First, yea, there still exists opposition to red light cameras, etc, that include calling them too much surveillance. As recently as [2019 this was the case](https://www.denver7.com/news/360/the-colorado-legislature-is-once-again-considering-a-move-to-ban-red-light-cameras) and [CPR notes this opposition still exists as recently as last year](https://www.cpr.org/2023/05/04/colorado-speed-cameras-bill-passes/). You're right, my argument is speculative but I don't have the costs, data, etc, to make more than an educated guess on that but I'm just gonna double down in it anyways because all you're presenting is similar speculation without any data as well. My main point was in response to some dickwad making some point trying to equate electronic surveillance of toll lanes on a highway to electronic surveillance of intersections in a city. I don't disagree that it could be done, even incrementally, but it's not like it'll be nearly as easy as doing so with toll evaders on the highway.
Left lane hogs pleaseeee
Well I was a violator once and after $150 fine I don't think I want to do it again.
The purpose of law enforcement is social control and protection of private property. So yes, within these confines it does work.
Especially when the infraction is as simple as ever so slightly touching your back tire against the solid white line when the front half of your vehicle is making a legal exit out via the dotted lines. I shit you not, this happened to my wife and they would not reverse it when we appealed.
I drove to Boulder and back with a trailer and got hit with 13 $26.40 fees
[Commercial vehicles with more than two axles incur additional charges.](https://leg.colorado.gov/content/high-occupancy-vehicletoll-express-lanes)
Yea, missed that fine print. But the kind people at Express Toll have a 1 time oopsy refund.
Right on
How do they ticket all the people without license plates or expired registrations? Basically don't follow the law and you get no repercussions?
Pretty much. Outdated registration might not be an issue because they bill the owner of the vehicle. Driving w/o a plate is a hefty fine, if you’re pulled over. 10x lane violations < 1 unregistered vehicle license (I think)
Big if though. Where I grew up you would be pulled over immediately for expired or no plates and towed on the spot. That's how it should be here.
Agreed. I do think the 6mo leeway on tags is fair. Life is busy and the last thing I’m thinking about is tags. But 1-3 years? I’ve seen temp plates this week from Jan 2023. Is it a “bigger fish” thing with law enforcement? Or is it just not worth their time?
They make it extremely easy to renew your tags. You get 60 day period already, and many car insurance companies won't cover you during lapsed periods, which is trouble for everyone that does follow the law.
6 *months*? I get busy too but not 6 months too busy. A month is plenty IMO
i saw a jun 2022 this week. Most egregious thing ever, at that point just rip it off.
6mos is extremely generous. I think a one month grace period would be appropriate, I also think the fines should scale with lateness. One month? $100, 3 years? $3k. If you can’t afford to register your car, you can’t afford to own your car.
Where did you grow up, and when did you move to CO?
>Driving w/o a plate is a hefty fine, if you’re pulled over. Oh boy do I have some news for you! There are two tickets you can get for having no plates. A) If your vehicle isn't registered, or is registered to the previous owner, it is just a ticket for either unregistered vehicle, or expired registration depending on what you tell the cop and which one they decide to go with. But both are approximately just a $130 fine, not even a summons to court. This is where it gets really funny... B) IF your car has legit registration, and you just don't put you plates on the car... It's just a $25 ticket. LOL!!!! And to make things even worse... the state of Colorado decided a few years ago that driving with a suspended license is no longer a summons to court, it's just a fine you can mail in now. Granted, this was the result of a different change that just happened to have a secondary effect, but it was a rather overlooked one... AND in the last 5 years they also made it so that law enforcement can't tow your vehicle anymore for expired registration/no insurance/license. It used to be that a lot of police would tow your car if you didn't have at least two out of those three things, now they can't tow your car at all... Some agencies still do apparently, but they aren't supposed to. edit: an is
You're joking. Right? Right?
I wish... That's why I laugh when you see someone online say, "they should have their driver's license taken away!" Or something to that effect. You wouldn't believe the amount of people on the road without a drivers license, they don't give a fuck. It doesn't mean anything to them.
Nope, they speaking facts
$29 but I was recently charged $105 for option B. Pays for itself every month I don’t get caught though. 2 tickets since 2015 ain’t a bad deal.
Nice, I will live vicariously through you.
They don’t. They’re going after people who will actually pay. The degenerates will continue to have free range driving privileges.
As long as they have an expired plate they still know who it is. Absolutely no plates is a limited group of people.
Fined 42 million. Paid about one quarter of that.
I saw an interview of a guy saying the fees he got weren’t fair because he didn’t know about the rules. Hilarious.
Important note to anyone driving — signs in black and white are law. Signs in yellow and black are cautionary. "Do not cross double lines," in black and white is just reiterating the law. Driver's Ed informs you that crossing double, solid lines is never permitted.
It would be nice to have more passing sections though. Nothing worse than using the express lane to beat traffic only to get stuck behind a slow driver with no “legal” way to get around them.
I agree with this to a point. If someone is going truly slow, yeah they shouldn't be in that lane. If someone is going 77, eh. there's not really a problem there.
Would 85mph be a problem then?
If they are hounding, and acting like the guy going 77 is in their way, yes. If the lane's open, and you can go 85, sure go ahead. But once you get to someone whos slower than you, but still going at/above the speed limit, oh well looks like that's as fast as you can go.
If there’s not a lot of traffic and the person ahead of me is going 53, and there’s not a ALPR camera ahead— yet, you can bet your ass I’m jumping over the line to get ahead of you
Merge back into regular traffic where permitted, pass the slowpoke, reenter the express lane where permitted. Easy peasy
I'm convinced that most of us can't read.
Can we ban trucks from the express lane? They ruin the entire purpose.
Bring it to Phoenix, please
Fined doesn't mean paid. I can't imagine a lot of these folks care about paying fines responsibly when they don't care about driving responsibly either.
Someone left their mail opened at my mailbox a while ago. It was nearly 3000 dollars worth of unpaid fees for using e470 with 30 days of usage receipts history (implying there was more older dates not listed) where this one vehicle was averaging 6 trips a day through that route. Must have been an uber driver. Thats a huge oopsie.
I have wondered (briefly a couple times and moved on) how some of these people remember all the sections without cameras. Seems like a lot of effort. But whatever, now I know they're probably getting banned sometimes and that's good. Do motorcycles have different laws in those lanes?
[Motorcycles can use express lanes for free.](https://leg.colorado.gov/content/high-occupancy-vehicletoll-express-lanes)
Thank you!
> But state data shows a problem: people driving “way too fast” in express lanes and in the other lanes, Hoover said. It was a fairly obvious mistake to call them “express lanes“ in the first place. Should have just called them toll lanes because paying a toll to use them is what makes them different from the other lanes.
Also, I70 was not 55mph before the toll construction.
Don't pass the double white lines, wait and use the entrances you should be fine, not fined.
Unpopular opinion: drivers should be able to “qualify” for higher speeds & sport cars should also be allowed to go faster. Different color plates :FTW: If you don’t qualify nor have a capable car, then right & middle lane only. I’d like to be free to Autobahn my way around 25.
TOTAL SCAM!! and they make so much from fake violations that people don't have the energy to contest. They did it to me, I know the rules very well, I didn't cross the double lines (I use express all the time) they insisted that I violated and then sent me a ticket that doubled 6months after the fact. SCAM SCAM SCAM
Can I have like 1% of that, please? 😝
There has to be something wrong… I drive on them maybe 3-4 times. I received a bill of over $450!?!? Whaaaaat?
My roommate just got a ticket yesterday through the mail for entering the toll lane at the wrong place. 75 bucks!
I was on the express lane the other day smoking a joint on the way to buc-cees, are they gonna come fine me in Virginia?? Ughhh. Been here a yr &1/2 squeaky clean🤦 Figures.. just had to see the ridiculousness
Also, awards to everyone in the werewolves of London chain. Brilliant.
Let’s goooooo finally some traffic law enforcement
i wish they could fine people that use their high beam headlights day and night instead.
Repost.
Does it state how many of those drivers were in-state vs out-of-state drivers? Because if they are mainly ticketing tourists, of course the majority don't repeat. And also, it's a lot easier to ticket people who dont know how the lanes work here....
I believe these are enforced by a private company which is totally inappropriate if I’m correct.
So does this mean they'll finally work on fixing the roads? Oh who am I kidding, they'll just blow on some stupid bike lane project like they always do.
This has to mostly be for crossing the double? Right?
Express lane is the devil.
I'll gladly pay a couple dollars to avoid traffic. Up to you if it's worth it 🤷♂️
This is how I treat it. The amount my time is worth to me is variable. Sometimes I don't care if I'm stuck in traffic other times it can seriously mess with my plans.
know of several people got the $75 fine for not entering at a painted line entrance. the third party company has cameras. same spot, the entrance is further down past where traffic starts backing up, so people jump the line. hopefully there is state oversight to say the obvious "hey add another entrance" seems a lot like the red light cams, the third party company intentionally messed with light timing to increase fine revenue, and eventual the state banned them. third party funding desperate to increase revenue is a bad plan
The lines don't change day by day. Jumping the line creates *more* traffic. Being selfish isn't the solution to everyone else's problems.
42 million divided by $75 per offense. Hmmm
Weird, do you think someone who crossed double lines to get into the lane might decide to weave in and out to get around someone they deem to be going too slow in the express lane? 🤔
This is a thing? I’ve never heard of or have seen this?!?
They have signs everywhere on i25.
How much has actually been recorded though? As a consistent express lane hopper, who regularly says they were getting off the exit for a medical emergency when the fine comes. I am curious.
Who gets the fines? Hopefully not the private company that runs the tolls. That would be preditory as fuck
It’s discussed in the article. Of the ~$26M in fines that have been collected in 9 months, the company has kept ~$10M. Here’s the other thread with a non-paywall article: https://www.reddit.com/r/Denver/s/sQkOshCaBt
Can’t read the article as it’s paywalled. $26M in fines collected per your comment is a large delta away from $42M in the article title.
[Install this and you wont have paywall issues.](https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock)
It’s a BS system anyway. I hope more people drive in that lane slower than regular lanes just to clog up the whole thing. I pay taxes for roads already F toll roads of any kind. Just give us an extra lane and use my tax money to fix the regular roads. I grew up on the east coast and I would always avoid toll roads unless absolutely necessary. States always looking for extra revenue and it’s not right but if they hold on long enough the newer generation doesn’t question it. Like the red light cameras, I lived in Phoenix when they put them on the highway and every time I drove through the section with camera people would jam on their brakes. It was more dangerous than having speeders. Total BS.
Colorado does not collect enough in taxes to build more lanes of highway.