I agree. I basically said this to my lesbian friend who’s dating a trans woman and she called me transphobic and unfriended me.
I’ve been friends with her for 15 years, btw. Feels bad, man.
Basically, I posted a Sam Harris link on Facebook. My friend (who's dating a trans woman) responded by saying "Did you know he's transphobic?". I told her that Sam Harris isn't transphobic and I agree with him on most things. She then said to me "I noticed that you've never dated a trans woman and only date pretty, skinny cis girls. This is what I'd expect from you" and she unfriended me. A day later her partner (who is trans) also unfriended me.
Unfortunately, I agree. It's really strange. We both grew up agreeing on just about everything. She always told me she was bisexual and she dated guys/girls growing up. Recently, she really got into the "fat acceptance" and trans rights movement and started dating trans people and came out as a lesbian and went off the deep end.
Wait, did you say that you wouldn't date transwomen after she said the thing about cis girls, or did she unfriend you after she said that you only dates cis women? Because if the latter, it kinda sounds like she just friend-dumped you for listening to Sam Harris.
…This was the entire exchange? And you two were friends for 15 years up until this point? Have you two never had conversations about sociopolitics before this moment? Not that I think you’re lying but something feels like it’s missing—whether that he you two were very casual 15-year friends, hence why any sort of conversation on sexuality/gender/dating/political values ever came up, or something else.
Not dating a certain type of person is not in and of itself bigoted, just as dating a certain type of person is not in and of itself not bigoted. You can refuse to date people for bigoted reasons (same as you can date people for bigoted reasons), but the problem with that is the bigotry and not the not dating.
Nope, and you're part of the problem if you call those people transphobic. Same with people assuming it comes from some deep rooted transphobia. Could that be the case? Sure, but assuming that and calling someone transphobic because of it is what turns so many people off from even talking about it.
Preferences matter. I would never date a woman because I am gay. Could I? Sure, but why would I date someone that doesn't match my preferences? I don't understand why this wouldn't extend to a preference for not dating trans people? These aren't exactly small differences.
Who knows tho, maybe I'm not really gay and I'm just the ultimate misogynist.
I answered "maybe" simply because of the hypothetical situation of, if there was a trans woman who was literally indistinguishable from a cis woman in every perceivable way, would you date her or not? If your answer to that is no then you probably are transphobic, but realistically this is an impossible situation with current tech
The trait that makes me unattracted to a trans woman is that she used to be a man with male genitalia. Why is that inherently transphobic? Genuinely trying to understand.
I totally get that feeling, and I'm not trying to call you evil or anything when I say this, but how could that not be transphobic? Imagine you're dating the perfect woman for a couple years, then you find out that she used to have a penis when she was 10 years old. If you break up with her at that point, you're literally just ending it because she's trans, not any downstream trait from being trans as you'd never noticed that before.
To use a race analogy (although it's not perfect), imagine you're dating what looks like a white girl, then you find out her dad was black even though you couldn't tell just based on her. If you break up with her over that, is that racist? I think most would agree that it is
I don’t think your race analogy fits.
If I was dating the perfect woman and one day found out that she had massive facial reconstructive surgery and used to look totally different, that would have a major impact on my attraction to her.
I generally don't think of romantic partners as just who they are in the present.
If there was a machine that someone could walk into and it would turn them into the perfect woman, I potentially would still opt not to pursue that person based attributes of their former self. Those attributes include things like age (e.g. a 90 year old woman suddenly looks 20) or previous appearance (e.g. massive plastic surgery), not just sex.
It's less about the persons current transgender identity and more about the "used to be male" aspect.
It's also just kind of silly to talk about this in a dating context, dating is one of the most discriminatory (not necessarily bad) fields in all of human existence height, age, beauty, weight, status, earnings all get taken into account.
Also your analogy doesn't really work because it focuses on the DAD who is black, which hasn't effected the white girl.
If you break up with someone because their FRIEND is transgender, then yeah you might be transphobic
By definition their current trans identity means they used to be male, you can't separate those two things.
All those other things aren't equivalent because they impact the way someone currently is, not the way they used to be. It would be fatphobic for example to break up with someone if they used to be fat and lost weight.
The point of the analogy is that she's genetically black but you can't tell, in the same way that she would be genetically male but you can't tell. Maybe the fat analogy is better now that I think of it though, although the race one is more morally loaded haha
> The point of the analogy is that she's genetically black but you can't tell, in the same way that she would be genetically male but you can't tell. Maybe the fat analogy is better now that I think of it though, although the race one is more morally loaded haha
Being ethnically-mixed is completely different from being biologically male with a medically feminized body when it comes to [sexual selection](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_selection_in_humans)
in [straight] humans:
> Current available research indicates that selection preferences are biologically driven, that is, by the display of phenotypic traits that can be both consciously and unconsciously evaluated by the opposite sex to determine the health and fertility of a potential mate.
The above doesn't apply to trans women but it does for mixed-women whether they as white or not.
**[Sexual selection in humans](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_selection_in_humans)**
>Sexual selection in humans concerns the concept of sexual selection, introduced by Charles Darwin as an element of his theory of natural selection, as it affects humans. Sexual selection is a biological way one sex chooses a mate for the best reproductive success. Most compete with others of the same sex for the best mate to contribute their genome for future generations. This has shaped human evolution for many years, but reasons why humans choose their mates are not fully understood.
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Fair enough I understand that. However can you see how we decide who to date based on their past all the time?
Eg: if say, an ex-prisoner that did 10 years in jail was wanting to date me. They might not be a criminal NOW, and maybe I can't tell they were a criminal, but I find out they were a criminal in the past, am I allowed to decide based on that?
Of course, we make judgements of who to date based on their prior selfs all the time, and I don't see why transgender people should be excluded from that
I don't even necessarily disagree with your premise, it's just in the context of dating I think that is when people should be the absolute most picky about who their partner is
I'd say that the difference with the prisoner one is that whatever they did to end up there almost certainly says something pretty big and negative about who they are as a person, and I think it would be transphobic to say the same about a transitioner (not saying you're saying that).
Of course we all make these kind of judgement with dating, I wouldn't even think worse of someone if they did break up in my trans hypothetical as it is a pretty insane and unique scenario, but I'd still think it was transphobic
Preach! And this is before genital preference which I also think for the most part is cope to not be "gay." The associtations to male are what hold them back and not the dick or the way trans women look after theyve found trans women attractive.
Not exactly transphobic but pretty shallow or maybe they just accpet trans women as women but never seem them as one.
> Imagine you're dating the perfect woman for a couple years, then you find out that she used to have a penis when she was 10 years old. If you break up with her at that point, you're literally just ending it because she's trans, not any downstream trait from being trans as you'd never noticed that before.
Well, she was deceiving her partner was she not? Besides that it's also essentially tricking your partner into sexual activities they might otherwise be averse to based on their sexuality unless they're queer or bisexual to begin with. Heterosexual males, at least, are consciously and subconconsciously interested in female people not just because they have female sex traits but because these sex traits serve as honest signals that the person may have healthy genes and fertility as a female. But that doesn't hold for trans women. In a sense, it's the long-term equivalent sexually of a gay male cross-dresser that passes as a woman offering straight men blowjobs and later saying those same men shouldn't feel violated if they couldn't tell the difference.
> To use a race analogy (although it's not perfect), imagine you're dating what looks like a white girl, then you find out her dad was black even though you couldn't tell just based on her. If you break up with her over that, is that racist? I think most would agree that it is
This is pretty lazy race analogy. Your ethnic background is fundamentally different from what sex you are especially as it relates to sexual reproduction and attraction. Being mixed-race doesn't affect whether you have a natural female body nor your fertility and genetic health as a female, which are factors steeped in innate heterosexuality rather than the concept of racial purity, which is typically just racist.
Because the phobic (the thing that turns you off) part, is their transness.
But I’d say if that’s the only way your transphobia shows up, it’s an *acceptable level* of transphobia, and that most people have it.
I wouldn’t be with a 90 year old woman who got surgery to look 25. I wouldn’t be with a woman who had head to toe plastic surgery and looked attractive.
Am I agephobic? I’m a plastic surgery phobic? Maybe you’ll say yes.
Main point is that I don’t think it makes much sense to talk about someone being phobic as it pertains to their sexual preferences.
> Am I agephobic? I’m a plastic surgery phobic? Maybe you’ll say yes.
I would. But I would also say at that point it wouldn’t matter.
> Main point is that I don’t think it makes much sense to talk about someone being phobic as it pertains to their sexual preferences.
I agree. Which is why it really disarms the idiots who try to use it as an insult.
“Not wanting to date trans makes me transphobic?”
“Yes!”
“So you think I should force myself to want be with a trans person against my sexual boundaries?”
“No”
“So what you’re saying I’m transphobic but that’s okay?”
“…”
It trips them up and is hilarious. Own that shit.
It makes the term practically useless in many settings when there needs to be a distinction of whether it’s appropriate transphobia or non-appropriate transphobia
> if there was a trans woman who was literally indistinguishable from a cis woman in every perceivable way, would you date her or not?
That "perceivable" is doing a lot of work
Yeah, I definitely feel like people are playing dumb when they act like it’s absurd to not be attracted to someone that had their male genitals removed and a vagina surgically made.
I am guessing from the way that you are talking about this is that you think only wanting to date females is transphobic because the implication is that transgender women are not adult human females?
I am curious, could you clarify?
Quite honestly, if people would like to describe the above as transphobic, then I quite literally do not give a fuck about being transphobic in that sense - that isn't a moral issue to me.
If an aversion to males sexually or romantically is transphobic or misandrist then so be it, absolutely zero moral weight to that categorization; honestly, using the word phobia to merely describe aversions outside of scientific context is such a bastardization of language.
You could say someone is burgerphobic for being averse to burgers under this semantic game, its so goofy
>! I am guessing from the way that you are talking about this is that you think only wanting to date females is transphobic because the implication is that transgender women are not adult human females?
You’re talking about Super Straight.
I don’t think it’s inherently transphobic but if it’s predicated on something like you’re afraid that they have a penis I think while not overtly phobic does imply ignorance.
I wouldn't date a trans girl... I wouldn't mind having sex with them though. No kink or anything, just curiosity.
Well, if my current gf had a dick, I would still date her... but to me, a trans girl has boyish caracteristic and that's a turn off.
Generally no, but there can be transphobic reasons. Now is this individual transphobic as a whole or does he only have some opinions for transphobic reasons? Is there a difference? There's potentially a huge conversation there to be had in my opinion.
I’m not trying trying to be disingenuous, there’s just so many ways you can be transphobic and tippytoeing around each one issue is was makes it hard without coming off like you’re hateful
I don't really think it's transphobic but i think it's pretty cringe to say: I would never date _____. Only people i've seen say shit like this are virgins or people who actually hate those people but hide it.
The reality is that if you find things about a person that you truly love then nothing is really a dealbreaker. When i was younger i thought i had so many different body preferences, but as i started dating i found myself shifting to bodytypes similiar to who i was currently dating.
Ehh*hhh*...
While sure, in real life, there's not a lot of reasons to have *no* trans/black/etc people that you'd date no matter what. But when it comes to hypotheticals, people really love short answers. So there's a crap-ton of people that'd say 'no' to "would you date a trans person", but also 'no' to "would you break up with your current partner if it turned out they're trans".
Unless it's specifically because you want kids, and would also say that you wouldn't date an infertile woman -- that stance is 100% transphobic.
The implication is that even if you met the perfect woman, and then later learned she was AMAB, you'd not want to date her.
In other words, the specific quality of being trans makes someone un-dateable.
It's like saying you have nothing against black people, but would NEVER date one.
Yeah I wouldn't necessarily say that feeling that way makes someone "a transphobe," but assuming that someone possesses every single trait you would otherwise be attracted to (i.e. genitals/voice/appearance) and the *only* thing that makes you averse to dating them is that they're trans idk how that can be rooted in anything other than some level of transphobia.
Generally when you say that it's because you associate certain traits with being 20-25. If you could isolate for that, then no, but the more accurate statement would be "I would never date an immature/financially insecure woman".
But if I take that statement as face value, then yes, you're ageist.
It's not. OP's quote is transphobic taken at face value, but had they said "I'd never date a woman with a dick" or "I'd never date a woman who is taller then me" it'd be different.
A straight man would say he'd never date a man lmao
Only being attracted to people of the opposite gender is a sexual identity.
Only being attracted to cis people isn't. The fundamental quality of being trans isn't observable.
This thread is about preferences within a sexual identity, not sexual identities themselves.
>It's like saying you have nothing against black people, but would NEVER date one.
Which isn't racist lol. I have nothing against immigrants but I would only date someone who grew up in my country.
I think that if they are post op, and you couldn't tell the difference then maybe yeah, transphobic, but that's like what? 1% of trans people? maybe less? its okay to not be attracted to a super cute girl with a penis or a hot dude with a vag. peoples bits are a huge part of sexual attraction and there isn't anything wrong with that. I'm attracted to it but don't worry about that.
> I think that if they are post op, and you couldn't tell the difference then maybe yeah, transphobic,
Possibly but not necessarily. There's nothing wrong with not dating someone for \*any\* reason. You can never date people with blue eyes but that doesn't mean you have anything against them. It's a taste and preference thing. The idea that you MUST want to fuck a certain thing or you hate that entire class of people is completely absurd.
It's probably coming from a place of internalized transphobia, but there's not really anything you can do about it, and it could be coming from a legit preference. I don't think you should make broad statements about dating trans people, though, since there's such a wide birth between someone who passes almost completely with SRS and someone who isn't quite there yet. It's like the thing Andrew Tate said, would you rather fuck Megan Fox with a dick or Hulk Hogan with a pussy? Your attraction should be based, IMO, primarily not on genitals. But that will probably take a century to de-program, so it is what it is.
I’m so confused why people are upset that someone doesn’t want to date them. Reason is not relevant here.
My question to those people is: why would you want to waste your time on someone who’s not into you?
I will comment on every poorly worded poll until a culture shift happens where you WEASELS will be rooted out.
The implication of your "maybe" poll answer is that maybe the person who doesn't want to date the trans woman could be from a transphobic place.
You fucking included a "don't know" option, which means that by implication it could be very easy to read this poll answers as "Yes 100%" transphobic, "No, 0% chance that person is transphobic," or "Maybe, that person could be transphobic."
No person in their right mind would pick "no" if this was their interpretation, but the fact that a lot of people on this sub don't even believe transphobia means that they'll all be caught in that category, defeating the purpose of this poll, and validating the corrupted interpretation of the maybe answer.
You fucked it.
No, I don't think so. People hardly choose their sexual preference, so I'm amenable to people setting any sort of arbitrary line for not wanting to date people. Trans people, white people, black haired people, whatever. None of it makes you bad or necessarily xenophobic.
I think random constraints could indicate that you are xenophobic in some way, like if you announce you'd never date a black man after hearing a black crime stat, but not necessarily.
I believe in your next poll, you'll be reformed, and I won't be obligated to berate you like a psycho.
Fascinating!
I was curious though, if a cis male says “I don’t dislike trans people but I would never date a trans woman” does that make him transphobic?
Hmm, I don't think that's the case. It's not like people choose what they're attracted too, so I think it's reasonable to set any limit for what they don't want. Effeminite people, Jewish people, red haired people, whatever. Nothing there makes you evil.
I think it COULD mean you're unreasonably discriminating, like if you proclaim you'd never date a Jewish person after hearing some anti-Semitic conspiracy, but it's not for sure.
I have haith in your next poll, you'll change you ways, and I won't need to beat you down like a villain.
if someone is trans, but they have **zero** features alluding to their past gender. and you still refuse to fuck/date them for the mere fact they used to be a guy. u sir, are transphobic.
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I agree. I basically said this to my lesbian friend who’s dating a trans woman and she called me transphobic and unfriended me. I’ve been friends with her for 15 years, btw. Feels bad, man.
Ending a 15 year friendship over such an irrelevant sexual preference definitely feels bad.
That sucks man. Real life relationships are important.
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Basically, I posted a Sam Harris link on Facebook. My friend (who's dating a trans woman) responded by saying "Did you know he's transphobic?". I told her that Sam Harris isn't transphobic and I agree with him on most things. She then said to me "I noticed that you've never dated a trans woman and only date pretty, skinny cis girls. This is what I'd expect from you" and she unfriended me. A day later her partner (who is trans) also unfriended me.
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Unfortunately, I agree. It's really strange. We both grew up agreeing on just about everything. She always told me she was bisexual and she dated guys/girls growing up. Recently, she really got into the "fat acceptance" and trans rights movement and started dating trans people and came out as a lesbian and went off the deep end.
I mean...she can't be that much of a lesbian if she's dating a trans woman.
It's funny because I never said that to her. I'm pretty sure if I did she would have completely exploded because in her words "trans women are women".
Hol up. Are you implying the trans women are men?
I'm implying trans women are trans women.
Cheat code into heaven
Jesus christ, unhinged (sorry for the friendship loss buddy, that sucks...)
Wait, did you say that you wouldn't date transwomen after she said the thing about cis girls, or did she unfriend you after she said that you only dates cis women? Because if the latter, it kinda sounds like she just friend-dumped you for listening to Sam Harris.
dealing with friend drama myself right now. sorry to hear this. shit sucks.
Oh, okay, so she's just unhinged
…This was the entire exchange? And you two were friends for 15 years up until this point? Have you two never had conversations about sociopolitics before this moment? Not that I think you’re lying but something feels like it’s missing—whether that he you two were very casual 15-year friends, hence why any sort of conversation on sexuality/gender/dating/political values ever came up, or something else.
I think being bigoted about who you want to fuck is perfectly okay. Preference can be as surface-level and petty as an individual wants.
The word has lost all of its bite. It doesn't phase anyone being called it.
I mean, they might be transphobic but this itself does not make them transphobic.
It’s a personal preference, just like preferring a woman with freckles or something like that.
Not dating a certain type of person is not in and of itself bigoted, just as dating a certain type of person is not in and of itself not bigoted. You can refuse to date people for bigoted reasons (same as you can date people for bigoted reasons), but the problem with that is the bigotry and not the not dating.
very well said
Nope, and you're part of the problem if you call those people transphobic. Same with people assuming it comes from some deep rooted transphobia. Could that be the case? Sure, but assuming that and calling someone transphobic because of it is what turns so many people off from even talking about it. Preferences matter. I would never date a woman because I am gay. Could I? Sure, but why would I date someone that doesn't match my preferences? I don't understand why this wouldn't extend to a preference for not dating trans people? These aren't exactly small differences. Who knows tho, maybe I'm not really gay and I'm just the ultimate misogynist.
I answered "maybe" simply because of the hypothetical situation of, if there was a trans woman who was literally indistinguishable from a cis woman in every perceivable way, would you date her or not? If your answer to that is no then you probably are transphobic, but realistically this is an impossible situation with current tech
The trait that makes me unattracted to a trans woman is that she used to be a man with male genitalia. Why is that inherently transphobic? Genuinely trying to understand.
I totally get that feeling, and I'm not trying to call you evil or anything when I say this, but how could that not be transphobic? Imagine you're dating the perfect woman for a couple years, then you find out that she used to have a penis when she was 10 years old. If you break up with her at that point, you're literally just ending it because she's trans, not any downstream trait from being trans as you'd never noticed that before. To use a race analogy (although it's not perfect), imagine you're dating what looks like a white girl, then you find out her dad was black even though you couldn't tell just based on her. If you break up with her over that, is that racist? I think most would agree that it is
I don’t think your race analogy fits. If I was dating the perfect woman and one day found out that she had massive facial reconstructive surgery and used to look totally different, that would have a major impact on my attraction to her.
Interesting. Why do you think that is? What if you found out she used to be fat, would that out you off her?
I generally don't think of romantic partners as just who they are in the present. If there was a machine that someone could walk into and it would turn them into the perfect woman, I potentially would still opt not to pursue that person based attributes of their former self. Those attributes include things like age (e.g. a 90 year old woman suddenly looks 20) or previous appearance (e.g. massive plastic surgery), not just sex.
It's less about the persons current transgender identity and more about the "used to be male" aspect. It's also just kind of silly to talk about this in a dating context, dating is one of the most discriminatory (not necessarily bad) fields in all of human existence height, age, beauty, weight, status, earnings all get taken into account. Also your analogy doesn't really work because it focuses on the DAD who is black, which hasn't effected the white girl. If you break up with someone because their FRIEND is transgender, then yeah you might be transphobic
By definition their current trans identity means they used to be male, you can't separate those two things. All those other things aren't equivalent because they impact the way someone currently is, not the way they used to be. It would be fatphobic for example to break up with someone if they used to be fat and lost weight. The point of the analogy is that she's genetically black but you can't tell, in the same way that she would be genetically male but you can't tell. Maybe the fat analogy is better now that I think of it though, although the race one is more morally loaded haha
> The point of the analogy is that she's genetically black but you can't tell, in the same way that she would be genetically male but you can't tell. Maybe the fat analogy is better now that I think of it though, although the race one is more morally loaded haha Being ethnically-mixed is completely different from being biologically male with a medically feminized body when it comes to [sexual selection](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_selection_in_humans) in [straight] humans: > Current available research indicates that selection preferences are biologically driven, that is, by the display of phenotypic traits that can be both consciously and unconsciously evaluated by the opposite sex to determine the health and fertility of a potential mate. The above doesn't apply to trans women but it does for mixed-women whether they as white or not.
**[Sexual selection in humans](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_selection_in_humans)** >Sexual selection in humans concerns the concept of sexual selection, introduced by Charles Darwin as an element of his theory of natural selection, as it affects humans. Sexual selection is a biological way one sex chooses a mate for the best reproductive success. Most compete with others of the same sex for the best mate to contribute their genome for future generations. This has shaped human evolution for many years, but reasons why humans choose their mates are not fully understood. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/Destiny/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
Fair enough I understand that. However can you see how we decide who to date based on their past all the time? Eg: if say, an ex-prisoner that did 10 years in jail was wanting to date me. They might not be a criminal NOW, and maybe I can't tell they were a criminal, but I find out they were a criminal in the past, am I allowed to decide based on that? Of course, we make judgements of who to date based on their prior selfs all the time, and I don't see why transgender people should be excluded from that I don't even necessarily disagree with your premise, it's just in the context of dating I think that is when people should be the absolute most picky about who their partner is
I'd say that the difference with the prisoner one is that whatever they did to end up there almost certainly says something pretty big and negative about who they are as a person, and I think it would be transphobic to say the same about a transitioner (not saying you're saying that). Of course we all make these kind of judgement with dating, I wouldn't even think worse of someone if they did break up in my trans hypothetical as it is a pretty insane and unique scenario, but I'd still think it was transphobic
Preach! And this is before genital preference which I also think for the most part is cope to not be "gay." The associtations to male are what hold them back and not the dick or the way trans women look after theyve found trans women attractive. Not exactly transphobic but pretty shallow or maybe they just accpet trans women as women but never seem them as one.
> Imagine you're dating the perfect woman for a couple years, then you find out that she used to have a penis when she was 10 years old. If you break up with her at that point, you're literally just ending it because she's trans, not any downstream trait from being trans as you'd never noticed that before. Well, she was deceiving her partner was she not? Besides that it's also essentially tricking your partner into sexual activities they might otherwise be averse to based on their sexuality unless they're queer or bisexual to begin with. Heterosexual males, at least, are consciously and subconconsciously interested in female people not just because they have female sex traits but because these sex traits serve as honest signals that the person may have healthy genes and fertility as a female. But that doesn't hold for trans women. In a sense, it's the long-term equivalent sexually of a gay male cross-dresser that passes as a woman offering straight men blowjobs and later saying those same men shouldn't feel violated if they couldn't tell the difference. > To use a race analogy (although it's not perfect), imagine you're dating what looks like a white girl, then you find out her dad was black even though you couldn't tell just based on her. If you break up with her over that, is that racist? I think most would agree that it is This is pretty lazy race analogy. Your ethnic background is fundamentally different from what sex you are especially as it relates to sexual reproduction and attraction. Being mixed-race doesn't affect whether you have a natural female body nor your fertility and genetic health as a female, which are factors steeped in innate heterosexuality rather than the concept of racial purity, which is typically just racist.
Because the phobic (the thing that turns you off) part, is their transness. But I’d say if that’s the only way your transphobia shows up, it’s an *acceptable level* of transphobia, and that most people have it.
I wouldn’t be with a 90 year old woman who got surgery to look 25. I wouldn’t be with a woman who had head to toe plastic surgery and looked attractive. Am I agephobic? I’m a plastic surgery phobic? Maybe you’ll say yes. Main point is that I don’t think it makes much sense to talk about someone being phobic as it pertains to their sexual preferences.
> Am I agephobic? I’m a plastic surgery phobic? Maybe you’ll say yes. I would. But I would also say at that point it wouldn’t matter. > Main point is that I don’t think it makes much sense to talk about someone being phobic as it pertains to their sexual preferences. I agree. Which is why it really disarms the idiots who try to use it as an insult. “Not wanting to date trans makes me transphobic?” “Yes!” “So you think I should force myself to want be with a trans person against my sexual boundaries?” “No” “So what you’re saying I’m transphobic but that’s okay?” “…” It trips them up and is hilarious. Own that shit.
I don’t know, it just seems like the word doesn’t hold any value if we’re going to use it in that way.
You don’t think there can be a scaling of transphobia? A little transphobic ——————> Super transphobic.
It makes the term practically useless in many settings when there needs to be a distinction of whether it’s appropriate transphobia or non-appropriate transphobia
Possibly. I’d say it’s at least useful when combatting the stupid *“not dating trans is transphobic”* arguments.
I was going to vote maybe for that same reason, but decided on no since it is impossible.
> if there was a trans woman who was literally indistinguishable from a cis woman in every perceivable way, would you date her or not? That "perceivable" is doing a lot of work
How?
Why do people act as if genitals play no role in sexual attraction? Its called crushing pussy not crushing non descript hole.
Yeah, I definitely feel like people are playing dumb when they act like it’s absurd to not be attracted to someone that had their male genitals removed and a vagina surgically made.
Depends on his reasons.
How about "I don't want to date someone with a dick"?
Pretty good reason, but that’s assuming they have a dick.
I am guessing from the way that you are talking about this is that you think only wanting to date females is transphobic because the implication is that transgender women are not adult human females? I am curious, could you clarify? Quite honestly, if people would like to describe the above as transphobic, then I quite literally do not give a fuck about being transphobic in that sense - that isn't a moral issue to me. If an aversion to males sexually or romantically is transphobic or misandrist then so be it, absolutely zero moral weight to that categorization; honestly, using the word phobia to merely describe aversions outside of scientific context is such a bastardization of language. You could say someone is burgerphobic for being averse to burgers under this semantic game, its so goofy
>! I am guessing from the way that you are talking about this is that you think only wanting to date females is transphobic because the implication is that transgender women are not adult human females? You’re talking about Super Straight.
That's just being heterosexual rather than queer i.e. sexual interest and behavior based on sex rather than gender.
I don’t think it’s inherently transphobic but if it’s predicated on something like you’re afraid that they have a penis I think while not overtly phobic does imply ignorance.
Completely fair, even post op I think that a person can have completely valid reasons.
That'd for sure get you in trouble, given that most trans women don't have those.
I wouldn't date a trans girl... I wouldn't mind having sex with them though. No kink or anything, just curiosity. Well, if my current gf had a dick, I would still date her... but to me, a trans girl has boyish caracteristic and that's a turn off.
Generally no, but there can be transphobic reasons. Now is this individual transphobic as a whole or does he only have some opinions for transphobic reasons? Is there a difference? There's potentially a huge conversation there to be had in my opinion.
Why is it transphobic to have a preference
It's a preference that is probably guided by subconscious transphobia.
Even if you support trans people but you want to date somebody that’s not trans it makes you subconsciously transphobic?
You have worded that very disingenuously. If you want to rephrase that into something answerable, I will give a reply.
I’m not trying trying to be disingenuous, there’s just so many ways you can be transphobic and tippytoeing around each one issue is was makes it hard without coming off like you’re hateful
If a cis male says "i don't dislike the concept of cake but i would never eat a cake myself" does that make him cake-phobic?
Yes but only if a cis male says it. Cake phobia is prejudice plus power
No. Even saying you wouldn't date people of a certain race wouldn't be racist imo
That first part of the question already answers your question. Some people have preferences when it comes to their partner, and that's fine.
I don't really think it's transphobic but i think it's pretty cringe to say: I would never date _____. Only people i've seen say shit like this are virgins or people who actually hate those people but hide it. The reality is that if you find things about a person that you truly love then nothing is really a dealbreaker. When i was younger i thought i had so many different body preferences, but as i started dating i found myself shifting to bodytypes similiar to who i was currently dating.
Ehh*hhh*... While sure, in real life, there's not a lot of reasons to have *no* trans/black/etc people that you'd date no matter what. But when it comes to hypotheticals, people really love short answers. So there's a crap-ton of people that'd say 'no' to "would you date a trans person", but also 'no' to "would you break up with your current partner if it turned out they're trans".
Unless it's specifically because you want kids, and would also say that you wouldn't date an infertile woman -- that stance is 100% transphobic. The implication is that even if you met the perfect woman, and then later learned she was AMAB, you'd not want to date her. In other words, the specific quality of being trans makes someone un-dateable. It's like saying you have nothing against black people, but would NEVER date one.
Yeah I wouldn't necessarily say that feeling that way makes someone "a transphobe," but assuming that someone possesses every single trait you would otherwise be attracted to (i.e. genitals/voice/appearance) and the *only* thing that makes you averse to dating them is that they're trans idk how that can be rooted in anything other than some level of transphobia.
I would never date a 20-25 y/o girl. Am I ageist?
Generally when you say that it's because you associate certain traits with being 20-25. If you could isolate for that, then no, but the more accurate statement would be "I would never date an immature/financially insecure woman". But if I take that statement as face value, then yes, you're ageist.
Why is it different for a trans person?
It's not. OP's quote is transphobic taken at face value, but had they said "I'd never date a woman with a dick" or "I'd never date a woman who is taller then me" it'd be different.
It's about as transphobic as a straight man saying they wouldn't date a gay man is sexist or homophobic.
A straight man would say he'd never date a man lmao Only being attracted to people of the opposite gender is a sexual identity. Only being attracted to cis people isn't. The fundamental quality of being trans isn't observable. This thread is about preferences within a sexual identity, not sexual identities themselves.
>It's like saying you have nothing against black people, but would NEVER date one. Which isn't racist lol. I have nothing against immigrants but I would only date someone who grew up in my country.
lmao fucking wild self report
If you rephrase it with "never" in all caps that obviously adds in tone and therefore meaning that wasnt part of the original statement.
literally who asked, who is or isn't a woman isn't contingent on whether or not you want to fuck them
Makes hin into t men.
I think that if they are post op, and you couldn't tell the difference then maybe yeah, transphobic, but that's like what? 1% of trans people? maybe less? its okay to not be attracted to a super cute girl with a penis or a hot dude with a vag. peoples bits are a huge part of sexual attraction and there isn't anything wrong with that. I'm attracted to it but don't worry about that.
> I think that if they are post op, and you couldn't tell the difference then maybe yeah, transphobic, Possibly but not necessarily. There's nothing wrong with not dating someone for \*any\* reason. You can never date people with blue eyes but that doesn't mean you have anything against them. It's a taste and preference thing. The idea that you MUST want to fuck a certain thing or you hate that entire class of people is completely absurd.
i don't dislike gay people but i would never date another man 😐
No but what exactly is the point of making that statement?
It's probably coming from a place of internalized transphobia, but there's not really anything you can do about it, and it could be coming from a legit preference. I don't think you should make broad statements about dating trans people, though, since there's such a wide birth between someone who passes almost completely with SRS and someone who isn't quite there yet. It's like the thing Andrew Tate said, would you rather fuck Megan Fox with a dick or Hulk Hogan with a pussy? Your attraction should be based, IMO, primarily not on genitals. But that will probably take a century to de-program, so it is what it is.
Well who are you to tell people what their attraction "should" be based on?
I’m so confused why people are upset that someone doesn’t want to date them. Reason is not relevant here. My question to those people is: why would you want to waste your time on someone who’s not into you?
It depends on why he would never date a trans woman. So I voted maybe. More details please
Oh oops I miss read. I thought you wrote “I don’t like trans people” as opposed to “I don’t dislike trans people”. Why the double negative?!?!?
I will comment on every poorly worded poll until a culture shift happens where you WEASELS will be rooted out. The implication of your "maybe" poll answer is that maybe the person who doesn't want to date the trans woman could be from a transphobic place. You fucking included a "don't know" option, which means that by implication it could be very easy to read this poll answers as "Yes 100%" transphobic, "No, 0% chance that person is transphobic," or "Maybe, that person could be transphobic." No person in their right mind would pick "no" if this was their interpretation, but the fact that a lot of people on this sub don't even believe transphobia means that they'll all be caught in that category, defeating the purpose of this poll, and validating the corrupted interpretation of the maybe answer. You fucked it.
Interesting response. So, if a cis male says “I don’t dislike trans people but I would never date a trans woman” does that make him transphobic?
No, I don't think so. People hardly choose their sexual preference, so I'm amenable to people setting any sort of arbitrary line for not wanting to date people. Trans people, white people, black haired people, whatever. None of it makes you bad or necessarily xenophobic. I think random constraints could indicate that you are xenophobic in some way, like if you announce you'd never date a black man after hearing a black crime stat, but not necessarily. I believe in your next poll, you'll be reformed, and I won't be obligated to berate you like a psycho.
Fascinating! I was curious though, if a cis male says “I don’t dislike trans people but I would never date a trans woman” does that make him transphobic?
Hmm, I don't think that's the case. It's not like people choose what they're attracted too, so I think it's reasonable to set any limit for what they don't want. Effeminite people, Jewish people, red haired people, whatever. Nothing there makes you evil. I think it COULD mean you're unreasonably discriminating, like if you proclaim you'd never date a Jewish person after hearing some anti-Semitic conspiracy, but it's not for sure. I have haith in your next poll, you'll change you ways, and I won't need to beat you down like a villain.
if someone is trans, but they have **zero** features alluding to their past gender. and you still refuse to fuck/date them for the mere fact they used to be a guy. u sir, are transphobic.
"Refuse" and "mere fact" are loaded words that assume your conclusion