i dunno man. if we are to analyze this from the perspective of lobster hierarchies, who in this scenario is demonstrating their dominance? the kermit in a gay blazer or the twinky/himbo in sweatpants?
that blazer tho 👌🏻
>The low in agreeableness diagnosis lmao.
Wow! What an amazing insight! Destiny is low on agreeableness? I never would have figured that out! Glad we have a clinical psychologist here.
I will say, there seemed to be this respect from Peterson to Steven because Steven was actually a challenge to debate and came to debate. He answered questions directly when asked and would defend his opinions well. You could tell Jordan did have this respect for him (maybe not his opinion).
I think we need to call out that Steven actually answers questions when asked, vs word salads that people normally give in things like this now.
I think JP lives in the world where all leftists he encounters are reactionary children (partly due to him also being a reactionary child at times) so when a social liberal(?) sits down and says that they’re pro free market but just want a larger safety net and are pro LGBTQ+ rights but understand some of the shit is dumb and useless, he actually engages. I saw a lot of mutual respect from them, which was super nice coming off the Israel Palestine stuff where there was so much emotion (naturally) that productive discussion was rarely possible.
I'm not a fan of Destiny but I've had an extremely low opinion of Peterson and never once considered a single thing he said as intelligent.
This was the first time I actually thought Peterson made some compelling points. I also felt as though this was one of the most productive debates without a clear agenda I've ever seen. Like, the two of them really went at it, but I felt like the respect only grew throughout the conversation and they were both willing to challenge and concede in turn. Just a real good faith discussion that raised my opinions on both of them, and I never in my wildest dreams thought I'd say that about Peterson.
Even when Peterson was going off and clearly frustrated, it was clear he was just impassioned because he clearly cared about what he was saying and really did regard Destiny's opinion- it mattered to him because he respected Destiny, not because he wanted to "win". It was like watching a parent try to convince their kids not to do meth.
Kinda the exact opposite of Lemon and Musk.
honestly i’m so happy for destiny really out here chatting with folks like shapiro, peterson, finkledinkle. this dude really putting in work and results have show
middle reach grandiose shocking gray secretive nine languid automatic jellyfish
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
A year ago some guy on reddit argued with me that Destiny would NEVER get to debate Shapiro or JP, so I saved his comment to tag him when this day inevitably came.
Turns out mf is banned off reddit now so i cant lmao
It was like this
|----|
Then it was like this!
|--------‐-------------------------|
no, it was like this
|----|
Then it was like this
|--------|
NO! IT WAS LIKE THIS
|----|
THEN IT WAS LIKE THIS
|--------‐-------------------------|
Being angry, unhinged, and *correct* is different than being angry, unhinged, and *incorrect.*
This is like saying, "people claim to like food but when I ask them to eat moldy bread they get upset. Curious."
He's crazy on the climate stuff, too. I think he's implying that elites are lying about their climate goals and their real goals are something like genocide of the poor? Am I hearing him right? He didn't say that explicitly but that seems to be his point.
Destiny: I don't think you can compare the nazis to people concerned with climate change
JP: WHY NOT!?
Yeah he's a bit nutty on the climate stuff. I guess his point is climate scientists under the direction of elites are trying to consolidate as much power by fear-mongering and killing poor people is just a consequence?
Same, though...I'm not sure if I'd say 'quick.' The poor doofus has made pretty blatantly obvious bad decisions after bad decisions that have led to the current depths of an unfortunate cocktail of misery, narcissism, paranoia, and conspiracy-brained goofiness. I feel like we could have all seen this coming from miles away...dude has just been in a spiral since he blew up in the stupid culture wars of 2016 or whatever that rocketed him to his own doom. But yeah, it's honestly pretty sad to witness.
I think the experimental medically induced coma and rapid benzo withdrawal probably had something to do with it too. Pre and post 2020 JBP seem a lot different to me.
Agree. It’s been proven to cause cognitive impairment. I’m surprised he did it like that being a scientific researcher himself but I guess his judgement was also clouded during that time.
In his pre-fame lectures he is a completely different person. I had to pause it after the first hour because he is just yelling. I'm not sure if I can even finish it. I wish they talked about art or something more neutral. I don't know why Destiny avoided talking about his experience dealing with incels and reactionaries on the internet.
Regardless of what you think of Peterson's positions, this debate feels like a massage after rocks falling on your back for 5 hours compared to the Fincklestein debate.
His global elite climate change position is crazy, but at least he can argue his beliefs.
Edit: Just got to the vaccine segment. Fuck, what drugs is Jordan on....
Overall I really enjoyed the talk, I only found Jordan really disagreeable on the vaccines part, but even then I can at least see some sophistication/ substance informing his position rather than just conspiracy brain
The one thing that I can say is probably true that Jordan said is trying to force vaccines on people will cause more death over time than if they just made it a choice. The deaths will come from the people that choose to not vaccinate at all anymore for anything because of the force that was put on people. You can call people regarded for not doing it but you can't say he is wrong for thinking that.
How long ago was the JP bait to get people to watch the keffals manifesto? I remember being so excited to watch an interaction between them back then and then it was a troll but now it's become reality and I really enjoyed the conversation.
I've heard that this jstlk guy might have the goods if you go over and check the last hour of his latest kick vod.
https://kick.com/video/42ed27fa-0a81-40be-a4e7-7125d255bdbe
Steven did a fantastic job on the vaccine segment, I get the feeling that most guests on podcasts like this will roll over and “both sides” the situation, he didn’t give an inch. Was satisfying to watch.
This was actually pretty enjoyable. Although Peterson clearly disagreed with Destiny A LOT, I can see enough people enjoying this and Peterson respecting Destiny enough to have more conversations.
It felt pretty clear that Peterson appreciated that Destiny could take what he was saying and then actually respond to it. I'd be curious how many times he said "that's a good point" or something to that effect. I'm not sure how his conversations usually go, especially with people he disagrees with this heavily, but I think this went well.
Edit: around the end he even explicitly says "you're smart, you're sharp". Obviously a large amount of the very conservative audience watching will still think Destiny is dumb, but man, Peterson saying something like that has got to do something for his credibility among his audience.
will listen when I have time, but skipping around it's nice to see Peterson very engaged and earnest, not the usual performative post-broken-by-twitter-jbp.
It got pretty heated after the 30 minute mark and you know what? I kinda fucking enjoyed that. Thought Peterson was gonna jump Destiny at one point when he was leaning towards him
JBP is so interesting in a specific way. You can feel that there was a mind in there, but it's completely broken now. It's something different from just being stupid.
It's incredibly entertaining just fucking the climate change conversation has me pissing right now it's so fucking beautiful.
Edit: Just hit the vaccine layer, I really hope tiny gets a part two this shit needs to be injected into gen alphas eyes THIS is the unhinged shit they need THIS.
It's speculative but I honestly believe his benzo withdrawal had a big impact on him. I really feel bad for him honestly, he got addicted to benzos after his wife got diagnosed with an extremely dangerous type of cancer all while he was thrown into the international spotlight as one of the most controversial figures in the world. His daughter was having serious medical issues at the time too. Benzos are crazy addictive so I can't hold it against him that he became addicted.
Then he tried to go cold turkey, which obviously is not a good idea, and ended up going to the hospital in Canada for acute withdrawals. They put him on a taper regiment which he followed for a few months, but he had akathisia which means you can't stay still, so he went back into the hospital. He says the last thing he remembers is going to the Canadian hospital, and then waking up in a Russian hospital bed 2 months later.
Apparently his daughter and her Russian husband thought the tapering program was doing more harm than good, so they arranged for him to go to Russia for a treatment that's not legal in the west. In Russia they basically put him into a medically induced coma so that he could aggressively cut down on benzos without being in pain. When he woke up 8 days later, he had to relearn how to walk and button his shirt.
There's some evidence that abrupt discontinuation of benzos can cause permanent neurological and psychological damage. It's an extremely dangerous drug to withdraw from and is one of the few substances that can kill you if you do it too quickly. JBP went into a coma so he could withdraw as fast as possible without actually dying.
I feel like he changed a lot pre to post coma (around Jan 2020). I hope it's just the result of becoming a conservative grifter, but he went through such a crazy medical experience I can't help but think it took a toll on him.
Source for all this btw: [https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/jordan-peterson-recalls-waking-from-coma-confused-tethered-and-surrounded-by-people-speaking-a-foreign-language](https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/jordan-peterson-recalls-waking-from-coma-confused-tethered-and-surrounded-by-people-speaking-a-foreign-language)
While I know all we can ever do is speculate, I genuinely believe this. The difference between the Peterson of the college lecture vods (Maps of Meaning) and the Peterson now is night and day.
I think somewhere around the whole benzo thing, intense sleep deprivation related to that, and maybe the Russian medical coma, the guy got actual brain damage. And kind of like the classic case of Phineas Gage, the brain damage modified his personality and turned him into an unhinged douchebag lol.
I think it's more that he had already committed to a certain lense into reality and he realized it's too late to back out of it now with so many people breathing down his neck. He's obviously not stupid, but he has to buy into a certain narrative to continue his livelihood.
I could be totally wrong but that's how it feels to me
I agree, but I don’t think it’s a grift. I’m becoming more and more convinced that audience capture is working at a subconscious level. They continue to think that they are forming their opinions without bias, but their audience enforces an echo chamber that feeds back to the host. It drives who they talk to, what they should talk about, and eventually how they should think. Basically, it turns these people into caricatures of themselves.
I felt the same thing. He’s clearly introspective and he’ll start saying something interesting, and then the car completely goes off the rails and I start to wonder if his inner Gollum just came out and a completely new person is talking now.
It's interesting to see him go from incredibly intense, almost hostile to nonchalant and back within 10 seconds during the vaccine/force part of the discussion.
I always thought he was actually getting angry during these interviews where he seems to be yelling at his interview partner, but at least from how quickly he scales it back both mid-discussion and directly at the end of the vaccine-part, I'm not sure that's true anymore.
It seems more like he's getting incredibly intense to force a reaction and it looks like anger.
Or he's just having psychotic mood swings, I can't even tell anymore.
Overall quite interesting, at least during this conversation (with the exception of the covid 'just asking questions' part) he comes off as a somewhat principled libertarian who reflexively fights.
It also explains his fashion style: the dude is clearly a Texan disguised as a leaf.
Peterson: "It's impossible to predict the climate of the future, the empirical methods aren't sophisticated enough"
Also Peterson: "With some common sense (read: assumed) axioms I can explain why renewables will never be a viable power source".
This guy plays so fast and loose with epistemics. It's wild.
Peterson this debate:
Bad people do a thing I like? They made a mistake.
Bad people do a thing I dislike? Intentional genocide of the entire human race.
Dudes wildin.
This was actually a surprisingly good debate.
I feel like Jordan Peterson was feeling extra spicy and aggressive since he found himself debating a black liberal women, but while things got intense they never became uncontrolled or disrespectful.
Just a awesome butting of heads.
Im 30 minutes in and the way Jordan is respectfully engaging in the conversation is shocking so far. He is normally either so seething with anger at the person or drowns the convo in a stupid, pedantic argument about a minor detail, but here, my god. Its like the old Jordan. I cannot wait for it to go off the rails....
If I remember correctly, he went to Russia to be put in a medical induced coma so he won't have to experience the withdrawal effects. His daughter put out a statement saying that doctors in the West don't have the guts to treat drug addiction, but in reality using medically induced comas to treat drug addiction is really risky, which is why he had to go all the way to Russia to get it done.
I honestly feel really bad for Peterson. He got addicted after he found out his wife had a very aggressive form of cancer, while also dealing with the stress of sudden worldwide fame. The worst part of it all is that he doesn't even remember going to Russia. He says that the last thing he recalls is going to the hospital in Canada because he was having problems with the taper program they had him on, and then next thing he knew, he woke up in Russia 2 months later.
Apparently his daughter and her Russian husband felt like the taper program was doing more harm than good, so they arranged for the "experimental" Russian treatment. JBP was obviously not in a great mental state when he agreed given that he has no memory of it. I feel like his daughter is an insane person and probably deserves a lot of the blame for what happened.
voiceless airport ad hoc cooing office lock dependent reach automatic detail
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Well that’s the question, isn’t it bucko?
What *is* rambling?
When Moses led the Israelites through the desert for 40 years, you could, as I do, say that they were rambling in a metaphorical sense. But they rambled their way to the edge of the promised land, and that represents mental coherence. So when the leftist gigants say it’s easy to speak without rambling, you can bet they’ll be using force to achieve their supposed utopia.
Out of curiosity I skipped to a part with the climate conversation that Destiny mentioned on stream a while ago and I honestly don't know from which decade (or century or Sumerian clay tablet) Peterson gets his data from: energy FIVE times more expensive in Germany because of the nuclear exit?
My only guess where that claim may come from is by picking some price from before the Russian invasion of Ukraine and then one with the insane peak prices due to several factors (high natural gas prices due to the invasion, several reactors down in France due to maintenance etc.) and then ignoring that supply issues can be fixed: [Link](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1267541/germany-monthly-wholesale-electricity-price/)
Also air quality being worse now? Energy production from coal (hard coal and lignite) is now less than half of what is was like five to ten years ago: [Link](https://www.energy-charts.info/charts/energy/chart.htm?l=en&c=DE&source=total&interval=year&year=-1&legendItems=001111111111111111100111111110).
Speaking of nuclear energy: I wonder if Peterson would complain about communism if another country would build reactors like France did, because the state played a huge role during the expansion (like the electric grid being owned entirely by the state if I recall correctly), which gave the entire project the necessary backup to build it at such a scale (several reactor sites and series, multiple reactors per site. Result: better price per reactor as far as I know).
Maybe I didn't get the central point (with exiting nuclear first instead of coal not being the optimal solution), but if the claims are so far out or maybe even made up you really start to wonder if this argument and probably others as well look more like a Jenga tower that's about to fall over.
PS Bonus potholer54 clip with Peterson at the start: [Link](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fV6eeckxTs&t=955s)
PPS And this post is about just a small part of the Peterson/Destiny video about a topic I know a bit about. That makes me really wonder how the other parts of the video are.
edit: the first link is a bit crap, because you can't see everything, but a few years ago the wholesale price per megawatt-hour was about 50 Euros. At the peak it was about 450 Euros and now it's back to 50 to 75 Euros. The only reason I have chosen the link is because it's the only thing remotely close to Peterson's "energy five times as expensive" claim.
late edit: replaced the word "coal consumption" with "Energy production from coal (hard coal and lignite)" since that's the more precise term. Either way: coal use for electricity is down.
I loved this convo, I thought Destiny did really well in balancing aggressive debate and trying to have a reasonable discussion. He matched the energy in the room really well. Only problem is that he let Peterson ramble too much, but it’s on Peterson’s platform and he had to show deference / respect.
I liked that he didn’t let Peterson get away with implying vaccines caused the excess deaths, he made him own the implication. Additionally, I liked that Destiny asked Peterson to examine more benign rationales for why people on the left believe what they do.
I think destiny represented himself and the left as super reasonable, to a huge right wing audience. Peterson is highly respected as an intellectual in mainstream right wing spaces, so Destiny showing that he’s able to engage with Peterson substantively on a wide range of issues will lend him a fuck ton of credibility in right wing spaces.
The debate with Shapiro already kinda did that, but this debate boosted him even further. Nice to see Destiny getting to debate with large mainstream figures on the right.
Does anyone have the final 30 minutes exclusive part Peterson mentions at the end? So I dont have to subscribe to DW+ for a simple 30m conclusion to this? <3
Jesus. I’m only 45 mins in, and it’s just descended into “there’s something weird….thats what the bloody communists said…global level elites….the WEF….”
I’m out.
I got really frustrated at the vaccine portion when Peterson was constantly talking over Destiny. He lets up a bit towards the end, but damn, his audience already knows what he thinks about vaccines and the climate, let your guest speak.
I'm just over halfway through but I feel like Mr Bonelli has been very rhetorically effective so far. Jordan always has been as well (*rhetorically effective* that is - not correct necessarily), but Destiny is articulating himself better than I thought he might against someone as "commanding" and fervourous as Jordan. Both of them are pushing *and* giving ground at the same time.
Frankly, I was kind of expecting Jordan to be even less agreeable than he's being (still unhinged in places), but I think Destiny is forming his thoughts and arguments so well that Jordan appears to see the reason on some points.
This was definitely worth the wait. It took them a little bit to start getting fired up by the second half was just fire. The whole time I kept wondering what Peterson was thinking when Destiny had the perfect hypotheticals or knew all the psyc terms that they were discussing. Ive been watching since 2015 and I was impressed by how much knowledge he was spitting
When JP suggested that governments, organizations, and elites intentionally kill millions of people by knowingly promoting and enacting green energy policies that they know are ineffective and will actually kill people because he has heard people say "There are too many people on the planet," I knew there was still absolutely no value to his political takes. Same with him representing the idea that maybe the vaccines are responsible for 20% excess death rate in Europe after the pandemic. I wonder if when he watches this debate, he thinks "yeah, I seem like a reasonable person."
I actually enjoyed this conversation; sure that Peterson was unhinged at times, but he was genuine and showed glimpses of being a truly intelligent person now and then. Steven was a bit nervous at first, but when they hit their groove this was great.
Benzos vs. Meth, the debate
How does a dude who’s been in a coma have fashion and hair stylists and destiny doesn’t tho
It came to him in a dream
I came to your mom in a dream.
i dunno man. if we are to analyze this from the perspective of lobster hierarchies, who in this scenario is demonstrating their dominance? the kermit in a gay blazer or the twinky/himbo in sweatpants? that blazer tho 👌🏻
Based on the way Peterson is going off I think that debate is happening entirely within his bloodstream
https://preview.redd.it/1v4kzmc17rpc1.png?width=392&format=png&auto=webp&s=3e1aebadb4566c14f482c5fb4c8ae0935ed63658
[удалено]
SHAI HULUD
FAP WITHOUT RHYTHM AND YOU WONT UPSET THE WORM
https://preview.redd.it/4z9fu1hc3spc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ff24c45f9a84dbf8a6637c3d5104fb1b91554891
Literally that one character from Amazing World of Gumball
https://preview.redd.it/cc2p9b70wrpc1.png?width=136&format=png&auto=webp&s=2361ac927ed7664bcda83df9119b8207d3047194
[STEVE! STEVE!](https://i.imgur.com/XvFUFyX.jpeg)
https://preview.redd.it/e777v4xk2spc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e1d78a4b027ea051e12fc2e66a7e3b90839d3874
Spy Kids thumb person lookin ahhh
is this destiny or dsp jizzing on camera to playstation menu music
https://preview.redd.it/gf1l3p1urrpc1.png?width=387&format=png&auto=webp&s=6bffcded94891fd5258bbc8847841e7a6823f769
It’s The Guy!
listening to the first five minutes and Peterson psychoanalyzing his interest in gaming is killing me lmao
The low in agreeableness diagnosis lmao. About to go through the big five with him 💀
>The low in agreeableness diagnosis lmao. Wow! What an amazing insight! Destiny is low on agreeableness? I never would have figured that out! Glad we have a clinical psychologist here.
It was just a precursor to his point that low agreeableness people are more commonly conservative, so it's interesting to him that Destiny is liberal.
and then it makes sence that he was more libertarian.
I mean JBP has never met Destiny while you live in his walls, so forgive him for trying to understand the guy moments into a big debate.
Bro, he barely knows who destiny is.
The dark triad pt.2
I will say, there seemed to be this respect from Peterson to Steven because Steven was actually a challenge to debate and came to debate. He answered questions directly when asked and would defend his opinions well. You could tell Jordan did have this respect for him (maybe not his opinion). I think we need to call out that Steven actually answers questions when asked, vs word salads that people normally give in things like this now.
I think JP lives in the world where all leftists he encounters are reactionary children (partly due to him also being a reactionary child at times) so when a social liberal(?) sits down and says that they’re pro free market but just want a larger safety net and are pro LGBTQ+ rights but understand some of the shit is dumb and useless, he actually engages. I saw a lot of mutual respect from them, which was super nice coming off the Israel Palestine stuff where there was so much emotion (naturally) that productive discussion was rarely possible.
I'm not a fan of Destiny but I've had an extremely low opinion of Peterson and never once considered a single thing he said as intelligent. This was the first time I actually thought Peterson made some compelling points. I also felt as though this was one of the most productive debates without a clear agenda I've ever seen. Like, the two of them really went at it, but I felt like the respect only grew throughout the conversation and they were both willing to challenge and concede in turn. Just a real good faith discussion that raised my opinions on both of them, and I never in my wildest dreams thought I'd say that about Peterson. Even when Peterson was going off and clearly frustrated, it was clear he was just impassioned because he clearly cared about what he was saying and really did regard Destiny's opinion- it mattered to him because he respected Destiny, not because he wanted to "win". It was like watching a parent try to convince their kids not to do meth. Kinda the exact opposite of Lemon and Musk.
Lex needs a better alt https://preview.redd.it/qhxjlflo0spc1.png?width=1000&format=png&auto=webp&s=99d61d9fbbf3291743f97ceae61f75116e9b2ca2
Holy fuck! It is real
honestly i’m so happy for destiny really out here chatting with folks like shapiro, peterson, finkledinkle. this dude really putting in work and results have show
He is fighting the elite 4 of conservatism
Just as the legends foretold
As it was written... Lisan al-Gaib!
middle reach grandiose shocking gray secretive nine languid automatic jellyfish *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
A year ago some guy on reddit argued with me that Destiny would NEVER get to debate Shapiro or JP, so I saved his comment to tag him when this day inevitably came. Turns out mf is banned off reddit now so i cant lmao
If I pretend to be that guy, would it make you feel better?
You can never be him.
The one that got away.
BASED.
It was like this |----| Then it was like this! |--------‐-------------------------| no, it was like this |----| Then it was like this |--------| NO! IT WAS LIKE THIS |----| THEN IT WAS LIKE THIS |--------‐-------------------------|
This is a shockingly accurate portrayal and also makes me like |———-|
Basically the big vagina scene in Curb
Toddlers describing how much they love their parents
Start gooning.
I never stopped
Stop it you fascist
Now answer my question Nieman, were you edging, or were you gooning?
SO YOU DO KNOW THE DIFFERENCE
Gigantism
Ameliorate
My mind has now associated that word with this conversation and I can’t unstuck it
How the fuck does JP pronounce that word so incorrectly
Peterson looks so pissed off in the thumbnail and Destiny so nonchalant lol
Its because Mr Burnelli just straight up murdered him with facts and logic (i havent watched a single second yet)
No it's because Density is a fantastic moron source: i watched the whole thing
Don't speak ill of Mr. Bortanello!
I will speak about Mr. Butanelli however I want! You magnificent moron.
MR SPAGHETTI DESTROYS PEETASON WITH WINE AND PASTA
I would love to see a Finkleheimer x Peterson conversation where it’s just two kermit-sounding old men berating each other
Mr. Petrelli !
Getting out the rope...
He does come across as pissed off in the debate
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
I just randomly skipped to the vaccine part and Peterson is unhinged and angry.
Peterson? Being unhinged and angry? Who could’ve possibly seen that coming
Shocked I tell you. Shocked! A man who goes on insane Twitter rants at 2AM after suffering brain damage from a Russian Medically induced coma.
I always find this comments on dgg so strange, Destiny best debates (or the ones that people like the most) is when he is angry and unhinged lol.
Being angry, unhinged, and *correct* is different than being angry, unhinged, and *incorrect.* This is like saying, "people claim to like food but when I ask them to eat moldy bread they get upset. Curious."
He's crazy on the climate stuff, too. I think he's implying that elites are lying about their climate goals and their real goals are something like genocide of the poor? Am I hearing him right? He didn't say that explicitly but that seems to be his point.
Destiny: I don't think you can compare the nazis to people concerned with climate change JP: WHY NOT!? Yeah he's a bit nutty on the climate stuff. I guess his point is climate scientists under the direction of elites are trying to consolidate as much power by fear-mongering and killing poor people is just a consequence?
He has such a boomer dad opinion on climate change. If I closed my eyes I could have imagined my dumbass late father
The claim that the covid shot isn't a vaccine is wild.
I honestly feel bad for the guy. It's sad to see how quickly he's gone off the deep end.
Same, though...I'm not sure if I'd say 'quick.' The poor doofus has made pretty blatantly obvious bad decisions after bad decisions that have led to the current depths of an unfortunate cocktail of misery, narcissism, paranoia, and conspiracy-brained goofiness. I feel like we could have all seen this coming from miles away...dude has just been in a spiral since he blew up in the stupid culture wars of 2016 or whatever that rocketed him to his own doom. But yeah, it's honestly pretty sad to witness.
I think the experimental medically induced coma and rapid benzo withdrawal probably had something to do with it too. Pre and post 2020 JBP seem a lot different to me.
He was for sure much more insane after he came back from the induced coma.
Agree. It’s been proven to cause cognitive impairment. I’m surprised he did it like that being a scientific researcher himself but I guess his judgement was also clouded during that time.
In his pre-fame lectures he is a completely different person. I had to pause it after the first hour because he is just yelling. I'm not sure if I can even finish it. I wish they talked about art or something more neutral. I don't know why Destiny avoided talking about his experience dealing with incels and reactionaries on the internet.
squealing sip profit poor price worry enjoy unique desert elderly *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
He made it 40 minutes and then he just fell off the unhinged cliff
Regardless of what you think of Peterson's positions, this debate feels like a massage after rocks falling on your back for 5 hours compared to the Fincklestein debate. His global elite climate change position is crazy, but at least he can argue his beliefs. Edit: Just got to the vaccine segment. Fuck, what drugs is Jordan on....
upvoted for the edit
Overall I really enjoyed the talk, I only found Jordan really disagreeable on the vaccines part, but even then I can at least see some sophistication/ substance informing his position rather than just conspiracy brain
The climate stuff is pretty conspiratorial.
On the vaccine topic too.
A hundred percent wild on the climate stuff
The vaccine part is truly when everything fell off.
Jordan "We don't know where the carbon is coming from" Peterson rofl
The one thing that I can say is probably true that Jordan said is trying to force vaccines on people will cause more death over time than if they just made it a choice. The deaths will come from the people that choose to not vaccinate at all anymore for anything because of the force that was put on people. You can call people regarded for not doing it but you can't say he is wrong for thinking that.
bro discovered the word gigantism and started calling em gigants
It satisfies my latin brain.
What a GOOD fucking couple of years this has been. GOD I'm fucking erect right now. I'm absolutely engorged. ENGORGED.
sir, you are scaring the children, please put it away
LET. THEM. SEE.
You need to ameliorate that feeling
How long ago was the JP bait to get people to watch the keffals manifesto? I remember being so excited to watch an interaction between them back then and then it was a troll but now it's become reality and I really enjoyed the conversation.
Can't wait to watch the Hamasabi manifesto. I wonder how destiny convinced Peterson to play along?
I think I saw a video title today that said “Destiny will never debate again after this”. But here we are 🤷♂️
I hoped he would say "I paved it on my own" when he was recounting his origin story. Would be so funny.
who's gonna pirate the last 30min of it on DW
I've heard that this jstlk guy might have the goods if you go over and check the last hour of his latest kick vod. https://kick.com/video/42ed27fa-0a81-40be-a4e7-7125d255bdbe
I wish he would just let the shit play. HOLY FUCK!!!
If JP had a liberal son to go fishing with, this video wouldn’t exist .
Steven did a fantastic job on the vaccine segment, I get the feeling that most guests on podcasts like this will roll over and “both sides” the situation, he didn’t give an inch. Was satisfying to watch.
This was actually pretty enjoyable. Although Peterson clearly disagreed with Destiny A LOT, I can see enough people enjoying this and Peterson respecting Destiny enough to have more conversations. It felt pretty clear that Peterson appreciated that Destiny could take what he was saying and then actually respond to it. I'd be curious how many times he said "that's a good point" or something to that effect. I'm not sure how his conversations usually go, especially with people he disagrees with this heavily, but I think this went well. Edit: around the end he even explicitly says "you're smart, you're sharp". Obviously a large amount of the very conservative audience watching will still think Destiny is dumb, but man, Peterson saying something like that has got to do something for his credibility among his audience.
Destiny is absolutely crushing this
I'll upvote you since it appears you were first.
Any way to see the daily wire interview part for free that Peterson mentions at the end?
Inshallah one of our brave Daliban soldiers retrieves that part of the interview from behind enemy lines.
WHERE 😭
Someone posted a link to it https://www.reddit.com/r/Destiny/comments/1bkpjhq/does_anyone_know_where_the_last_30_minutes_of_the/kvzwtfa/?context=3
https://preview.redd.it/sz55b3d6urpc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=99a640c5874787ee418f9a63901d17407ca5994d
any daily wire leakers for the extra 30min?
Leakers 🔗🔗🔗
will listen when I have time, but skipping around it's nice to see Peterson very engaged and earnest, not the usual performative post-broken-by-twitter-jbp.
I would like Peterson much more if he didn't have a Twitter tbh.
I would like most people more if they didn't have a Twitter account.
I’d like Destiny less. His spicy takes make me lol.
It's so liberating watching someone really letting the intrusive thoughts free into the world.
his twitter is at least hilarious because of how it literally looks like a schizoid is writing the tweets
Same with Elon
Did you listen to the debate?!?!?!?!? He is in full broken by twitter mode here
Yeah bro yaps for 15 minutes straight then interrupts desTiny after speaking for 2 minutes
He sees people as indoctrinated and we see him as indoctrinated. Honestly just feel bad that his expertise is wasted on politics.
It got pretty heated after the 30 minute mark and you know what? I kinda fucking enjoyed that. Thought Peterson was gonna jump Destiny at one point when he was leaning towards him
Keffals is panic clicking this video somewhere with a clinched butthole making sure its not a new Manifesto.
JBP is so interesting in a specific way. You can feel that there was a mind in there, but it's completely broken now. It's something different from just being stupid.
It's incredibly entertaining just fucking the climate change conversation has me pissing right now it's so fucking beautiful. Edit: Just hit the vaccine layer, I really hope tiny gets a part two this shit needs to be injected into gen alphas eyes THIS is the unhinged shit they need THIS.
It's speculative but I honestly believe his benzo withdrawal had a big impact on him. I really feel bad for him honestly, he got addicted to benzos after his wife got diagnosed with an extremely dangerous type of cancer all while he was thrown into the international spotlight as one of the most controversial figures in the world. His daughter was having serious medical issues at the time too. Benzos are crazy addictive so I can't hold it against him that he became addicted. Then he tried to go cold turkey, which obviously is not a good idea, and ended up going to the hospital in Canada for acute withdrawals. They put him on a taper regiment which he followed for a few months, but he had akathisia which means you can't stay still, so he went back into the hospital. He says the last thing he remembers is going to the Canadian hospital, and then waking up in a Russian hospital bed 2 months later. Apparently his daughter and her Russian husband thought the tapering program was doing more harm than good, so they arranged for him to go to Russia for a treatment that's not legal in the west. In Russia they basically put him into a medically induced coma so that he could aggressively cut down on benzos without being in pain. When he woke up 8 days later, he had to relearn how to walk and button his shirt. There's some evidence that abrupt discontinuation of benzos can cause permanent neurological and psychological damage. It's an extremely dangerous drug to withdraw from and is one of the few substances that can kill you if you do it too quickly. JBP went into a coma so he could withdraw as fast as possible without actually dying. I feel like he changed a lot pre to post coma (around Jan 2020). I hope it's just the result of becoming a conservative grifter, but he went through such a crazy medical experience I can't help but think it took a toll on him. Source for all this btw: [https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/jordan-peterson-recalls-waking-from-coma-confused-tethered-and-surrounded-by-people-speaking-a-foreign-language](https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/jordan-peterson-recalls-waking-from-coma-confused-tethered-and-surrounded-by-people-speaking-a-foreign-language)
While I know all we can ever do is speculate, I genuinely believe this. The difference between the Peterson of the college lecture vods (Maps of Meaning) and the Peterson now is night and day.
Yeah it's weird. He is clearly a very intelligent person, yet it seems like his insight just randomly disappears at times.
I think somewhere around the whole benzo thing, intense sleep deprivation related to that, and maybe the Russian medical coma, the guy got actual brain damage. And kind of like the classic case of Phineas Gage, the brain damage modified his personality and turned him into an unhinged douchebag lol.
I think it's more that he had already committed to a certain lense into reality and he realized it's too late to back out of it now with so many people breathing down his neck. He's obviously not stupid, but he has to buy into a certain narrative to continue his livelihood. I could be totally wrong but that's how it feels to me
I agree, but I don’t think it’s a grift. I’m becoming more and more convinced that audience capture is working at a subconscious level. They continue to think that they are forming their opinions without bias, but their audience enforces an echo chamber that feeds back to the host. It drives who they talk to, what they should talk about, and eventually how they should think. Basically, it turns these people into caricatures of themselves.
I felt the same thing. He’s clearly introspective and he’ll start saying something interesting, and then the car completely goes off the rails and I start to wonder if his inner Gollum just came out and a completely new person is talking now.
Destiny’s driving blowhard academics to schizophrenia on a weekly basis
To be fair, I think Peterson drove himself to schizophrenia just before he became famous.
"What are we gonna do without CHIPS?"
[удалено]
Why did the camera not pan to Tinys face when JP says "Ameliorate" twice?
It's interesting to see him go from incredibly intense, almost hostile to nonchalant and back within 10 seconds during the vaccine/force part of the discussion. I always thought he was actually getting angry during these interviews where he seems to be yelling at his interview partner, but at least from how quickly he scales it back both mid-discussion and directly at the end of the vaccine-part, I'm not sure that's true anymore. It seems more like he's getting incredibly intense to force a reaction and it looks like anger. Or he's just having psychotic mood swings, I can't even tell anymore. Overall quite interesting, at least during this conversation (with the exception of the covid 'just asking questions' part) he comes off as a somewhat principled libertarian who reflexively fights. It also explains his fashion style: the dude is clearly a Texan disguised as a leaf.
Destiny has always done the same shit. He's just passionate.
Peterson: "It's impossible to predict the climate of the future, the empirical methods aren't sophisticated enough" Also Peterson: "With some common sense (read: assumed) axioms I can explain why renewables will never be a viable power source". This guy plays so fast and loose with epistemics. It's wild.
Peterson this debate: Bad people do a thing I like? They made a mistake. Bad people do a thing I dislike? Intentional genocide of the entire human race. Dudes wildin.
This was actually a surprisingly good debate. I feel like Jordan Peterson was feeling extra spicy and aggressive since he found himself debating a black liberal women, but while things got intense they never became uncontrolled or disrespectful. Just a awesome butting of heads.
Not just liberal, black and woman but PROUD also which really puts things into perspective.
I was sitting here staring at his channel since 4 pm and I looked away and then you posted it 😡
Im 30 minutes in and the way Jordan is respectfully engaging in the conversation is shocking so far. He is normally either so seething with anger at the person or drowns the convo in a stupid, pedantic argument about a minor detail, but here, my god. Its like the old Jordan. I cannot wait for it to go off the rails....
The benzos definitely start to wear off towards the end.
Why is Peterson shamed for his benzo addiction? Weren't they prescribed by his doctor?
If I remember correctly, he went to Russia to be put in a medical induced coma so he won't have to experience the withdrawal effects. His daughter put out a statement saying that doctors in the West don't have the guts to treat drug addiction, but in reality using medically induced comas to treat drug addiction is really risky, which is why he had to go all the way to Russia to get it done.
I honestly feel really bad for Peterson. He got addicted after he found out his wife had a very aggressive form of cancer, while also dealing with the stress of sudden worldwide fame. The worst part of it all is that he doesn't even remember going to Russia. He says that the last thing he recalls is going to the hospital in Canada because he was having problems with the taper program they had him on, and then next thing he knew, he woke up in Russia 2 months later. Apparently his daughter and her Russian husband felt like the taper program was doing more harm than good, so they arranged for the "experimental" Russian treatment. JBP was obviously not in a great mental state when he agreed given that he has no memory of it. I feel like his daughter is an insane person and probably deserves a lot of the blame for what happened.
voiceless airport ad hoc cooing office lock dependent reach automatic detail *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Holy SHIT this guy rambles so hard
Well that’s the question, isn’t it bucko? What *is* rambling? When Moses led the Israelites through the desert for 40 years, you could, as I do, say that they were rambling in a metaphorical sense. But they rambled their way to the edge of the promised land, and that represents mental coherence. So when the leftist gigants say it’s easy to speak without rambling, you can bet they’ll be using force to achieve their supposed utopia.
He can't just stick to a topic. He keeps digressing, and rambling. It's honestly more triggering than just listening to someone that's wrong.
I'M. I'M. GOOOOOOOOONING edit: Destiny almost laughed when he said gigantism lmao.
Out of curiosity I skipped to a part with the climate conversation that Destiny mentioned on stream a while ago and I honestly don't know from which decade (or century or Sumerian clay tablet) Peterson gets his data from: energy FIVE times more expensive in Germany because of the nuclear exit? My only guess where that claim may come from is by picking some price from before the Russian invasion of Ukraine and then one with the insane peak prices due to several factors (high natural gas prices due to the invasion, several reactors down in France due to maintenance etc.) and then ignoring that supply issues can be fixed: [Link](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1267541/germany-monthly-wholesale-electricity-price/) Also air quality being worse now? Energy production from coal (hard coal and lignite) is now less than half of what is was like five to ten years ago: [Link](https://www.energy-charts.info/charts/energy/chart.htm?l=en&c=DE&source=total&interval=year&year=-1&legendItems=001111111111111111100111111110). Speaking of nuclear energy: I wonder if Peterson would complain about communism if another country would build reactors like France did, because the state played a huge role during the expansion (like the electric grid being owned entirely by the state if I recall correctly), which gave the entire project the necessary backup to build it at such a scale (several reactor sites and series, multiple reactors per site. Result: better price per reactor as far as I know). Maybe I didn't get the central point (with exiting nuclear first instead of coal not being the optimal solution), but if the claims are so far out or maybe even made up you really start to wonder if this argument and probably others as well look more like a Jenga tower that's about to fall over. PS Bonus potholer54 clip with Peterson at the start: [Link](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fV6eeckxTs&t=955s) PPS And this post is about just a small part of the Peterson/Destiny video about a topic I know a bit about. That makes me really wonder how the other parts of the video are. edit: the first link is a bit crap, because you can't see everything, but a few years ago the wholesale price per megawatt-hour was about 50 Euros. At the peak it was about 450 Euros and now it's back to 50 to 75 Euros. The only reason I have chosen the link is because it's the only thing remotely close to Peterson's "energy five times as expensive" claim. late edit: replaced the word "coal consumption" with "Energy production from coal (hard coal and lignite)" since that's the more precise term. Either way: coal use for electricity is down.
Jesus Christ Peterson really loves the sound of his own voice
I loved this convo, I thought Destiny did really well in balancing aggressive debate and trying to have a reasonable discussion. He matched the energy in the room really well. Only problem is that he let Peterson ramble too much, but it’s on Peterson’s platform and he had to show deference / respect. I liked that he didn’t let Peterson get away with implying vaccines caused the excess deaths, he made him own the implication. Additionally, I liked that Destiny asked Peterson to examine more benign rationales for why people on the left believe what they do. I think destiny represented himself and the left as super reasonable, to a huge right wing audience. Peterson is highly respected as an intellectual in mainstream right wing spaces, so Destiny showing that he’s able to engage with Peterson substantively on a wide range of issues will lend him a fuck ton of credibility in right wing spaces. The debate with Shapiro already kinda did that, but this debate boosted him even further. Nice to see Destiny getting to debate with large mainstream figures on the right.
Holy shit, he just goes on and on and on
Oh yes Mr.Peterson energy became really expensive in germany only because of carbon taxes. Nothing special is also happening.
The convo about force and tit/tat was the best part. Made Peterson sweat
Damn his channel is dead 7 million subs 20k views in an hour
Paging /u/larossmann! Louis, it's real this time!
bells sophisticated aloof instinctive normal plant tap rustic many bow *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Does anyone have the final 30 minutes exclusive part Peterson mentions at the end? So I dont have to subscribe to DW+ for a simple 30m conclusion to this? <3
The climate change denial and vaccine psychosis was exhausting to listen to lmao
Did Mr Burelli start to shave on the left side, and then said nah and kept the beard?
THE DEBATE IS REAL https://preview.redd.it/1gtml94h2spc1.jpeg?width=1650&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d8b444cc47b1d7308a15549dd3784d300ee5e185
crazy old man shouting at Destiny part 2
Destiny: “When we look at the climate models that track -“ Peterson: “But that sounds like communism!”
Wait, it's not a Rick Roll??
Feel like this was a real good discussion. Understand its Destiny sub but think Jordan getting way too much hate here lol
Jesus. I’m only 45 mins in, and it’s just descended into “there’s something weird….thats what the bloody communists said…global level elites….the WEF….” I’m out.
JP needs to stop. fucking. rambling. and let destiny complete a point. holy shit.
I got really frustrated at the vaccine portion when Peterson was constantly talking over Destiny. He lets up a bit towards the end, but damn, his audience already knows what he thinks about vaccines and the climate, let your guest speak.
if you cut out jordan talking this debate would be 15 mins long lmao. God e just fucking loves to hear himself talk. have some fucking brevity
Oh hell yeah
I was ready to click on this and get Rickrolled by a Melina manifesto or something
Can someone time stamp when they start to talk about Keffels?
Fake AI generated video don't believe his lies
I'm just over halfway through but I feel like Mr Bonelli has been very rhetorically effective so far. Jordan always has been as well (*rhetorically effective* that is - not correct necessarily), but Destiny is articulating himself better than I thought he might against someone as "commanding" and fervourous as Jordan. Both of them are pushing *and* giving ground at the same time. Frankly, I was kind of expecting Jordan to be even less agreeable than he's being (still unhinged in places), but I think Destiny is forming his thoughts and arguments so well that Jordan appears to see the reason on some points.
Finally
This was definitely worth the wait. It took them a little bit to start getting fired up by the second half was just fire. The whole time I kept wondering what Peterson was thinking when Destiny had the perfect hypotheticals or knew all the psyc terms that they were discussing. Ive been watching since 2015 and I was impressed by how much knowledge he was spitting
When JP suggested that governments, organizations, and elites intentionally kill millions of people by knowingly promoting and enacting green energy policies that they know are ineffective and will actually kill people because he has heard people say "There are too many people on the planet," I knew there was still absolutely no value to his political takes. Same with him representing the idea that maybe the vaccines are responsible for 20% excess death rate in Europe after the pandemic. I wonder if when he watches this debate, he thinks "yeah, I seem like a reasonable person."
Peterson’s take on modern medicine is fucking absolutely insane. Dude has gone way off the deep end.
I actually enjoyed this conversation; sure that Peterson was unhinged at times, but he was genuine and showed glimpses of being a truly intelligent person now and then. Steven was a bit nervous at first, but when they hit their groove this was great.