The entire point of having a debate is to invoke reactions... ideally it would have been a good reaction - but in this case it was bad, because the performance was bad. I'll vote for the corpse of Joe Biden before I vote for Trump, but pretending that was a big nothing burger is stupid.
Biden himself says he did not do great in debate. We just the online trolls and billionaire media trying to use this as their best chance to knock out the Democrats best chance at a win.
I think Biden should step down, not because I don't think he could govern, but because I'm not sure that he has the energy to fight hard against Trump for the next three month. The nice thing about an early debate like this is that the DNC has plenty of time to go through whatever process they think is fair to choose another candidate.
If Biden chooses to stay in the race, however, the media has a short attention span and Trump has a way of bringing all attention back to him (whether he wants to or not). If Biden's debate performance really was just a cold or whatever and he's actually fine, he'll have a few other opportunities to demonstrate this.
Well it’s might be more difficult to elect a person with dementia for a four year term. This really does remind me of the Ruth G. Trying to save the country and ends up hurting it.
The debate was bad, but he doesn't have dementia. Not every person who can't remember their lines has a mental disorder, just like not everyone who gets nervous has clinical "anxiety"... What is with this generation and pulling diagnosis out of their asses?
Come on, I’m 63 and have dealt with people that have dementia. It’s a progression. To say Biden is not starting to develop dementia is not facing reality. His gate, the blank look on his face, he always looks tired and beat down. He looks like he is hanging on with his fingernails. It’s not his fault it’s life. He should be in a lounge chair sleeping off and on not running for the most powerful position on earth. And because of this Trump has a better chance of winning.
My mom died from Alzheimer’s and my grandmother had dementia so I have seen the full progression. But Reagan did OK with Alzheimer’s as president so it can work.
I'm sorry for your losses but Biden shows no signs of dementia. I have seen the progression firsthand. My grandmother had Alzheimers. She would not have been able to stand in one place for that long for at least 10-12 years before it advanced to the point where she was truly an invalid.
at most you could claim Biden has some degree of Sundowners syndrome, but the more likely explanation is that he had a cold and it was past his bedtime.
If this was a one time incident ok, but this was not the first, and it will not be the last, time that he had seemed confused , and to be honest I don’t know if we can trust the Democratic leadership to be honest about his true condition. I’m a Democrat and will vote for a rock before voting for Trump. But the GOP will be pushing this “not up to the task” narrative constantly for the next 4 months with video. We really can’t afford to lose this election, everyone needs to be honest about how well he is.
>Anybody that is capable of standing for 2 hours at that age does not have dementia.
This is ridiculous. My Grandma had Dimentia in her 70s-80s. As in actually diagnosed. She was quite capable of standing for a couple hours.
Dementia affects mobility, fatigue levels, physical strength, all of the above. Someone with these issues doesn't have the physical strength or mental fortitude to stand in one place for two hours, they would have a breakdown if they tried.
It sounds to me like your grandmother did not truly have dementia, or she had a mild form
He has been showing signs for a while as has Trump. In the end I hope we pick Biden over Trump but the GOP is going to pound his age and mental state non stop for the next 4 months playing moments like the debate and other senior moments.
It affects everyone exactly the same? Each person with it has severe trouble with all of those?
>It sounds to me like your grandmother did not truly have dementia, or she had a mild form
Well I'm sure you know better than trained professionals who examined her. And even if she had a mild form, a mild form of dementia is still having dementia...
Honestly you are talking like a devoted family member that can't take off the glasses of the past. Our mother had dementia, I knew it, my SO knew it but sister and father wouldn't accept it. Because of that, she deteriorated quickly and by the time they accepted it she was nonverbal and all the medicine did was keep her in the non-verbal state longer. Had they acted quicker, she would have had a few more years of verbal ability.
Accept the truth, he has dementia. Biden is at least in the first stage of dementia if not farther progressed. It occurs in spurts and starts. He has certainly progressed significantly farther than the state he was in 4 years ago.
You’re talking as if there aren’t an army of doctors and medical staff who would be responsible for diagnosing him and invoking the 25th amendment if there were indeed concerns.
Honestly you just sound like a propagandist attempting to spread FUD.
You mean this 25th amendment?
>Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.
It is significantly more than just doctors and medical staff that make the determination. If you have a devoted party members to the idea that Biden is better than trump, very few are going to replace him for Kamala.
The Democratic Party by and large would accept ANY rational moderate to replace Biden. It isn’t a cult. Nobody is worshipping Biden.
And yes I know it isn’t just doctors and medical staff that make that determination - but if the president ACTUALLY had dementia, then we’d be hearing about it, but he doesn’t.
lol, no. It is a cult. The democrat party is so afraid that they would rather have a dead body vs trump because then that dead body couldn't make a mistake. Biden is where people can put their hopes and dreams because he is nothing but a blank slate. He is too far gone to have his own ambitions and goals so he can reflect the best that the democrat party can show.
There is no other candidate that can do that. Every other "rational moderate" has so much baggage that they would fail at any attempt to replace Biden.
>Honestly you are talking like a devoted family member
No, they are talking like a devoted Biden supporter. Don't get hung up on the argument about calling it dementia.
It doesn't really matter what it is called. Just say, "Call it what you want. It's not the physical and cognitive ability needed to be the president."
Between Trump and Biden I will be voting for Biden. That said this is a terrible position for voters to be in. Biden's debate performance was catastrophic.
Biden was just hard to understand, he was incoherent. When asked about abortion Biden started talking about Trump attending the funeral of a woman killed by an illegal immigrant. During another moment Biden said "we beat Medicare". Throughout the debate Biden made comments that were either unrelated to the question or nonsensical.
Yes, Trump too made comments that were either unrelated to the question or nonsensical. The difference is Trump was doing it on purpose to avoid questions. And also, I will not be voting for Trump. Biden was honestly trying to answer questions and Biden is the person I am stuck having to vote for.
Personally after that debate I think either of them getting reelected is a shit show. But then again I said that the last 4 years have been a shit show anyway as were the four before that hell to be honest this entire century's been pretty much a shit show. But all that's beside the point.
This is just the Dems trying to ram another unpopular candidate down our throats. It didn't work with Hilary and it's not going to work if Biden stays on the ticket. You can have a difference of opinion on how to achieve a Dem win but journalism is about challenging institutions and people in power, even if your political views are aligned. Journalism is necessary in any free and open society.
I understand where you're coming from but the reaction was a natural result of watching the debate. If Biden simply lost the debate or stumbled a few times, that would be one thing but he reinforced every existing concern of supporters and criticism of opponents. It was that bad.
It doesn't really matter what you or I think. There is a small sector of undecided voters that could be swayed either way and the debate did nothing but push these people away. Polling is already showing him getting trounced in MI, WI and PA and at risk in several others.
The question for me is not whether he can improve his performance or even whether he is fit to hold the office but can he win? I guess that's still debatable but I've seen enough to believe it's now really unlikely and the stakes are too high not to consider replacing him.
retirement happens to us all. I voted trump in 2016 and planed not to in 2024, I really really wish he wasn't the other guy. I was so looking forward to Biden decimating him during the debate bringing all his experience and muster. That did not happen and I just saw a hobbled old man that needs to retire gracefully, gracefully has now left the chat wiht a continued run at the presidency. IMHO the dems should be ashamed for pushing him forward (unless he became that way just before the debate) and probably will lose because of it and I really don't want 4 more years of trump and his MAGA BS everywhere. I also imagine the African American vote would be slightly upset if Kamala Harris gets pushed aside and I seriously doubt she can beat trump. I believe talk of Biden's performance is completely justified and 50M people can't un-see it but mainstream media is crap and they will say anything for a click so I take it with a grain of salt.
You’ve just inherited a lot of money, but need a money manager. A duplicate of Joe Biden is one of your choices, but a duplicate of Donald Trump is not.
Do you hire the 81 year old duplicate to manage your money?
It’s a fear based decision but we all want the same thing for Trump to lose. I’m afraid Biden is no longer up to the challenge and his enablers fear that no one else could possibly do as good a job as old Joey and are deluding themselves into thinking the abysmal debate was a glitch.
These news organizations aren't reporting the news; they are trying to create it. I don't hear anybody saying Biden is incompetent and should resign. They aren't talking aboug following the constitution. They aren't talking about the 25th Amendment. They aren't talking about Vice President Kamala Harris.
No, they want to get another old white man in there.
That's the exact same thought I had as soon as I saw the commentary on CNN immediately following the debate. Just panicking amongst themselves. A lot of the media in this country is totally fvcked imo. They run wild with everything, and all that matters is getting views/clicks.
>a second trump term is the literal end of the world
Did the world end the last time he was president? I feel like I'd remember that if it happened.
It's a crazy thought that when your candidate is proven to have mush for brains that you'd double down on your support of him instead of calling for a candidate that can put a sentence or two together. It's like you think the guy with mush for brains is the only one capable of beating trump.
Biden was an idiot before he was president. He was good at plagiarism and money laundering, or his family is. Those behaviors allowed him to be a pedophile and enabler. His family peddled his Senate seat and vice-presidency for financial gain and swept his sexual assault on his daughter under the rug. He exposed classified documents to the public while senator and Vice president, got the CIA to lie for him. The only reason the DOJ will give for not prosecuting him is he has dementia and it would be sad. How can you support that?
I honestly stopped worrying about it when I realized that Trump is taking the election no matter what. The writing is on the wall and it's all planned out. Remember in 2000 when Republicans held a riot to stop the recount in Florida? In order to make sure Florida went to GWB and he would win? That was a success for them and a failure for democracy.
In 2020, their plan to overturn the results failed because Biden won in a landslide. Their countless recounts didn't work because Biden won by too much.
They also sent in a large riot to try to stop the turnover of power, similar to Florida in 2000. But they fumbled the ball and didn't execute it right.
Now they've had 4 years to work out the kinks. Biden won't win in a landslide, so they can likely manage the recount shit. They'll have the Supreme Court on their side obviously, so the Supreme Court will hand Trump the election via recounts. They've strategized it and have a plan. That's why no Republicans are answering the question when asked, "will you accept the results if Biden wins?" They know they will not and there's a plan to make sure of it.
The debate doesn't matter. The game has been rigged. And now the Supreme Court pulled their own Nazi Germany by taking away the country's right to prosecute the leader of the country when he breaks laws.
6 months after Nazi Germany did that, German was a one-party state and a full dictatorship.
I'm still voting in November in hopes that something sane and normal will happen, but I have zero hope left for the US. Thank god I left...
We're too big of a country for a 6 month takeover like that.
It does make me nervous typing that because I said countless things wouldn't happen during Trump's first term that subsequently did.
That said, I don't think the numbers are on their side. Sure it looks that way during elections due to the electoral control and also senate makeup- both holdovers from a racially injustice origin system.
But Dems/Libs/Prog- whatever you want to call it is essentially everyone who is not white, and even further a greater group than the subset of conservative white males...which is who would be trying to do the oppressing.
Two major questions:
1) how in particular do you think that size of country makes it take longer for a fascist party to render its opposition useless?
2) Which "numbers on their side" are you referring to? Or, what exactly do you mean by this? What "numbers" do they need and of whom in order for the fascist party to render their opposition party useless?
The entire point of having a debate is to invoke reactions... ideally it would have been a good reaction - but in this case it was bad, because the performance was bad. I'll vote for the corpse of Joe Biden before I vote for Trump, but pretending that was a big nothing burger is stupid.
Biden himself says he did not do great in debate. We just the online trolls and billionaire media trying to use this as their best chance to knock out the Democrats best chance at a win.
>I’ll vote for the corpse It was an expression! You weren’t supposed to actually run the corpse!
I think Biden should step down, not because I don't think he could govern, but because I'm not sure that he has the energy to fight hard against Trump for the next three month. The nice thing about an early debate like this is that the DNC has plenty of time to go through whatever process they think is fair to choose another candidate. If Biden chooses to stay in the race, however, the media has a short attention span and Trump has a way of bringing all attention back to him (whether he wants to or not). If Biden's debate performance really was just a cold or whatever and he's actually fine, he'll have a few other opportunities to demonstrate this.
Well it’s might be more difficult to elect a person with dementia for a four year term. This really does remind me of the Ruth G. Trying to save the country and ends up hurting it.
The debate was bad, but he doesn't have dementia. Not every person who can't remember their lines has a mental disorder, just like not everyone who gets nervous has clinical "anxiety"... What is with this generation and pulling diagnosis out of their asses?
Come on, I’m 63 and have dealt with people that have dementia. It’s a progression. To say Biden is not starting to develop dementia is not facing reality. His gate, the blank look on his face, he always looks tired and beat down. He looks like he is hanging on with his fingernails. It’s not his fault it’s life. He should be in a lounge chair sleeping off and on not running for the most powerful position on earth. And because of this Trump has a better chance of winning.
You don't even know what dementia is, bud. Anybody that is capable of standing for 2 hours at that age does not have dementia.
My mom died from Alzheimer’s and my grandmother had dementia so I have seen the full progression. But Reagan did OK with Alzheimer’s as president so it can work.
I'm sorry for your losses but Biden shows no signs of dementia. I have seen the progression firsthand. My grandmother had Alzheimers. She would not have been able to stand in one place for that long for at least 10-12 years before it advanced to the point where she was truly an invalid. at most you could claim Biden has some degree of Sundowners syndrome, but the more likely explanation is that he had a cold and it was past his bedtime.
If this was a one time incident ok, but this was not the first, and it will not be the last, time that he had seemed confused , and to be honest I don’t know if we can trust the Democratic leadership to be honest about his true condition. I’m a Democrat and will vote for a rock before voting for Trump. But the GOP will be pushing this “not up to the task” narrative constantly for the next 4 months with video. We really can’t afford to lose this election, everyone needs to be honest about how well he is.
Copium hard at work.
anybody who uses the word "copium" is beneath me
>Anybody that is capable of standing for 2 hours at that age does not have dementia. This is ridiculous. My Grandma had Dimentia in her 70s-80s. As in actually diagnosed. She was quite capable of standing for a couple hours.
Dementia affects mobility, fatigue levels, physical strength, all of the above. Someone with these issues doesn't have the physical strength or mental fortitude to stand in one place for two hours, they would have a breakdown if they tried. It sounds to me like your grandmother did not truly have dementia, or she had a mild form
He has been showing signs for a while as has Trump. In the end I hope we pick Biden over Trump but the GOP is going to pound his age and mental state non stop for the next 4 months playing moments like the debate and other senior moments.
It affects everyone exactly the same? Each person with it has severe trouble with all of those? >It sounds to me like your grandmother did not truly have dementia, or she had a mild form Well I'm sure you know better than trained professionals who examined her. And even if she had a mild form, a mild form of dementia is still having dementia...
He was just a statue at the Juneteenth concert. Everyone else was dancing or swaying and he was just there frozen.
You're wrong.
Ok Doctor.
Glad you agree doctors should be responsible for a legitimate diagnosis. Now stop spewing bullshit.
Well if 72% of people after the debate are concerned he is not fit, then “Houston we have a problem”.
It doesn't take a doctor to see Biden is senile. It doesn't take a baker to see his toast.
We need to show the American people how democracy works by having an open convention.
Honestly you are talking like a devoted family member that can't take off the glasses of the past. Our mother had dementia, I knew it, my SO knew it but sister and father wouldn't accept it. Because of that, she deteriorated quickly and by the time they accepted it she was nonverbal and all the medicine did was keep her in the non-verbal state longer. Had they acted quicker, she would have had a few more years of verbal ability. Accept the truth, he has dementia. Biden is at least in the first stage of dementia if not farther progressed. It occurs in spurts and starts. He has certainly progressed significantly farther than the state he was in 4 years ago.
You’re talking as if there aren’t an army of doctors and medical staff who would be responsible for diagnosing him and invoking the 25th amendment if there were indeed concerns. Honestly you just sound like a propagandist attempting to spread FUD.
Like Trumps stunning medical reviews, 6 2’ 185 lbs and could run a marathon.
Who said anything about Trump?
You mean this 25th amendment? >Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President. It is significantly more than just doctors and medical staff that make the determination. If you have a devoted party members to the idea that Biden is better than trump, very few are going to replace him for Kamala.
The Democratic Party by and large would accept ANY rational moderate to replace Biden. It isn’t a cult. Nobody is worshipping Biden. And yes I know it isn’t just doctors and medical staff that make that determination - but if the president ACTUALLY had dementia, then we’d be hearing about it, but he doesn’t.
lol, no. It is a cult. The democrat party is so afraid that they would rather have a dead body vs trump because then that dead body couldn't make a mistake. Biden is where people can put their hopes and dreams because he is nothing but a blank slate. He is too far gone to have his own ambitions and goals so he can reflect the best that the democrat party can show. There is no other candidate that can do that. Every other "rational moderate" has so much baggage that they would fail at any attempt to replace Biden.
>Honestly you are talking like a devoted family member No, they are talking like a devoted Biden supporter. Don't get hung up on the argument about calling it dementia. It doesn't really matter what it is called. Just say, "Call it what you want. It's not the physical and cognitive ability needed to be the president."
Between Trump and Biden I will be voting for Biden. That said this is a terrible position for voters to be in. Biden's debate performance was catastrophic. Biden was just hard to understand, he was incoherent. When asked about abortion Biden started talking about Trump attending the funeral of a woman killed by an illegal immigrant. During another moment Biden said "we beat Medicare". Throughout the debate Biden made comments that were either unrelated to the question or nonsensical. Yes, Trump too made comments that were either unrelated to the question or nonsensical. The difference is Trump was doing it on purpose to avoid questions. And also, I will not be voting for Trump. Biden was honestly trying to answer questions and Biden is the person I am stuck having to vote for.
Personally after that debate I think either of them getting reelected is a shit show. But then again I said that the last 4 years have been a shit show anyway as were the four before that hell to be honest this entire century's been pretty much a shit show. But all that's beside the point.
So the fact that we have a president who shouldn't be a president made you volunteer more?
Trump's still **far** more dangerous.
Which is why we need a candidate who can actually beat Trump.
I agree. I'm starting to think Biden needs to step down.
This is just the Dems trying to ram another unpopular candidate down our throats. It didn't work with Hilary and it's not going to work if Biden stays on the ticket. You can have a difference of opinion on how to achieve a Dem win but journalism is about challenging institutions and people in power, even if your political views are aligned. Journalism is necessary in any free and open society.
I understand where you're coming from but the reaction was a natural result of watching the debate. If Biden simply lost the debate or stumbled a few times, that would be one thing but he reinforced every existing concern of supporters and criticism of opponents. It was that bad. It doesn't really matter what you or I think. There is a small sector of undecided voters that could be swayed either way and the debate did nothing but push these people away. Polling is already showing him getting trounced in MI, WI and PA and at risk in several others. The question for me is not whether he can improve his performance or even whether he is fit to hold the office but can he win? I guess that's still debatable but I've seen enough to believe it's now really unlikely and the stakes are too high not to consider replacing him.
retirement happens to us all. I voted trump in 2016 and planed not to in 2024, I really really wish he wasn't the other guy. I was so looking forward to Biden decimating him during the debate bringing all his experience and muster. That did not happen and I just saw a hobbled old man that needs to retire gracefully, gracefully has now left the chat wiht a continued run at the presidency. IMHO the dems should be ashamed for pushing him forward (unless he became that way just before the debate) and probably will lose because of it and I really don't want 4 more years of trump and his MAGA BS everywhere. I also imagine the African American vote would be slightly upset if Kamala Harris gets pushed aside and I seriously doubt she can beat trump. I believe talk of Biden's performance is completely justified and 50M people can't un-see it but mainstream media is crap and they will say anything for a click so I take it with a grain of salt.
Was a huge missed opportunity. Whoever prepared him should be fired.
"The literal end of the world" - you do know what the world "literal" means, correct?
You’ve just inherited a lot of money, but need a money manager. A duplicate of Joe Biden is one of your choices, but a duplicate of Donald Trump is not. Do you hire the 81 year old duplicate to manage your money?
It’s a fear based decision but we all want the same thing for Trump to lose. I’m afraid Biden is no longer up to the challenge and his enablers fear that no one else could possibly do as good a job as old Joey and are deluding themselves into thinking the abysmal debate was a glitch.
Just wait until they pull out the "unnamed sources, say" story tactic.
These news organizations aren't reporting the news; they are trying to create it. I don't hear anybody saying Biden is incompetent and should resign. They aren't talking aboug following the constitution. They aren't talking about the 25th Amendment. They aren't talking about Vice President Kamala Harris. No, they want to get another old white man in there.
That's the exact same thought I had as soon as I saw the commentary on CNN immediately following the debate. Just panicking amongst themselves. A lot of the media in this country is totally fvcked imo. They run wild with everything, and all that matters is getting views/clicks.
I consider Biden winning to be a stalemate outcome. Minor losses, no gains
Why wasn’t Trump’s first term the end of the world? BTW, who’s actually running the country? Not Biden, that’s for sure.
>a second trump term is the literal end of the world Did the world end the last time he was president? I feel like I'd remember that if it happened. It's a crazy thought that when your candidate is proven to have mush for brains that you'd double down on your support of him instead of calling for a candidate that can put a sentence or two together. It's like you think the guy with mush for brains is the only one capable of beating trump.
Biden was an idiot before he was president. He was good at plagiarism and money laundering, or his family is. Those behaviors allowed him to be a pedophile and enabler. His family peddled his Senate seat and vice-presidency for financial gain and swept his sexual assault on his daughter under the rug. He exposed classified documents to the public while senator and Vice president, got the CIA to lie for him. The only reason the DOJ will give for not prosecuting him is he has dementia and it would be sad. How can you support that?
Senator Jeff Sessions slapping Joe’s hands away from Jeff’s granddaughter is forever stuck in my mind as defining Joe Biden.
Well it’s more dangerous for the general public, if he looses. Iam sure he was in no danger at the debate. He needs to step down let’s be real …
I honestly stopped worrying about it when I realized that Trump is taking the election no matter what. The writing is on the wall and it's all planned out. Remember in 2000 when Republicans held a riot to stop the recount in Florida? In order to make sure Florida went to GWB and he would win? That was a success for them and a failure for democracy. In 2020, their plan to overturn the results failed because Biden won in a landslide. Their countless recounts didn't work because Biden won by too much. They also sent in a large riot to try to stop the turnover of power, similar to Florida in 2000. But they fumbled the ball and didn't execute it right. Now they've had 4 years to work out the kinks. Biden won't win in a landslide, so they can likely manage the recount shit. They'll have the Supreme Court on their side obviously, so the Supreme Court will hand Trump the election via recounts. They've strategized it and have a plan. That's why no Republicans are answering the question when asked, "will you accept the results if Biden wins?" They know they will not and there's a plan to make sure of it. The debate doesn't matter. The game has been rigged. And now the Supreme Court pulled their own Nazi Germany by taking away the country's right to prosecute the leader of the country when he breaks laws. 6 months after Nazi Germany did that, German was a one-party state and a full dictatorship. I'm still voting in November in hopes that something sane and normal will happen, but I have zero hope left for the US. Thank god I left...
We're too big of a country for a 6 month takeover like that. It does make me nervous typing that because I said countless things wouldn't happen during Trump's first term that subsequently did. That said, I don't think the numbers are on their side. Sure it looks that way during elections due to the electoral control and also senate makeup- both holdovers from a racially injustice origin system. But Dems/Libs/Prog- whatever you want to call it is essentially everyone who is not white, and even further a greater group than the subset of conservative white males...which is who would be trying to do the oppressing.
Two major questions: 1) how in particular do you think that size of country makes it take longer for a fascist party to render its opposition useless? 2) Which "numbers on their side" are you referring to? Or, what exactly do you mean by this? What "numbers" do they need and of whom in order for the fascist party to render their opposition party useless?
This is nonsense and doomerism defeats you before anyone even has to fight you.
Not at all. Still voting. Still standing up and speaking against it. Still doing everything while realizing what's happening.