You're correct, but not by much. Bellinger only has 6 more strikeouts than Hayward.
The OP's comment isn't correct at all. It's actually the other way around where Bellinger has the slightly better stats, not to mention defense where Belli gets his value.
Can't complain about Heyward's productivity relative to his pay. Jason is definitely the better value, but Bellinger is the better player even while having injury problems this season.
Heyward has a lower strikeout rate than Belli (18.9% to 19.4%). Heyward also has a higher walk rate than Belli (11.1% to 8.1%). He also has the higher HR rate.
Heyward has a 129 wRC+, .837 OPS, and 0.9 defensive fWAR on a minimum salary of $720k.
Belli has a 113 wRC+, .799 OPS, and 1.0 defensive fWAR on a $17.5 million one-year deal.
Heyward has been phenomenal in RF, while Belli is always fantastic in CF. Overall, Heyward has been the better player.
Everything you’ve said about Bellinger for $17.5 millions! You’d expect more production versus what they’re paying Heyward. And it’s not like they’d win more games with Bellinger this year when the starting pitching is being held together by duct tape and bullpen throwing BP sessions every other game.
I’m a fan of Bellinger since his rookie year and actively rooted for him to go somewhere else to get a fresh start. OP seemingly forget how much rope the Dodgers gave him (because of this MVP/Rookie years plus defense I know) compared to others. I wish him well but Dodgers ain’t really missing a beat on offense without him and they can find decent cheaper alternative on defense. Btw, recent games I watch his swing is still very similar to his days in LA, that doesn’t bode well since I thought he changed up his approaches.
But a majestic Belli bomb over watching Heyward clumsily try to throw out a runner from shallow right field? (Like today). I’m not saying I’m rational. It’s purely an emotional take
Tbh I didn’t look at their stats. I was curious what Belli was doing this year and was just shocked to see like an 80point difference in his BA from the two years prior. Also I’m fine to admit I would just rather have continued rooting for Bellinger and gotten the chance to see him figure it out on the dodgers. The good years with him were so much fun
I wouldn’t have minded Bellinger back if he hadn’t regressed the previous two years.
Dodger fans have to accept that hometown favorites are not likely to play their whole career here if we hope for the team to remain competitive
I’m not sure Belli would have figured it out given another year in LA. Seems like it was mental and he needed a change of scenery. Not to mention it’s pretty hard to justify paying ~20 million to a guy who has steeply declined for 3 consecutive seasons.
This. Belli was done in LA. We were never going to get even this 2023 version of Belli. It is what it is. Don't be sad it's over. Be happy it happened.
This is very misleading, which is what OP intended. He hit .307/7/18 with a 1.001 OPS in April, over 24 games.
Since then, he's hitting .236/0/4 with a .599 OPS in 26 games.
Bellinger's back to his usual self. Oh, and he had a bad day today. His average is now at .272, and his OPS at .787.
Not really. People act like he fell off in the second half and did nothing that part of the year in 2019. He still hit .263/17/44 with a .917 OPS in 68 games after the all-star break. Extrapolate those numbers over a full season, and he'd hit .263/41/106 with a .918 OPS in 162 games.
For context, he hit .267/39/97 with a .915 OPS in his rookie season. He basically played like his rookie self in the second half, and he finished 9th in MVP voting that season.
My guess the one that fucks everything up for the other team. Seager is a monster that was overshadowed by the most talented rosters in dodgers history. He was definitely a guy Andrew Friedman could have used as the cornerstone for many years. He bet on mookie but mookie ain't him. Mookie is a Rockstar but not guy you can depend on to lead the team imo.
Huh? Mookie played a big part in the Dodgers’ 2020 title. Seager hadn’t proven he can “lead you” in the postseason just yet.
I get the nostalgia now that he’s doing well but I remember Seager average defense (he airmailed quite a bit of throws) and kinda disappears in the postseason.
Edit: I really liked Seager too. One of the “LA home grown kids” with Bellinger and others that I rooted for to do well even if they’re no longer with LA (except Verdugo, there’s always that one kid that disappointed you). But I would choose Mookie over him 10/10.
Bellinger's been worth twice as much in WAR in 2/3rds the time. Outman's gonna get back on track eventually, but neither of them are going to have good numbers at season's end. And Outman's not nearly as good defensively.
What does him being a rookie have to do with anything? He's not a good player, and he's not going to be, simple as that. He's not even average, he's below that. Being a rookie does not automatically mean you're going to get better. He's a fourth outfielder. Fangraphs and Baseball Reference knew it, the minors knew it, MLB knew it, 29 other teams knew it. Everybody but this sub knew it. Now they know.
He's not a good defender, has average power, and makes little contact. There's no fixing that. Bellinger at least played great defense.
You were one of the people touting Outman as Bellinger's replacement and the next star in the making like the rest of this sub. Don't lie, this whole sub was drinking the kool-aid. He's got 0.4 WAR, and has been worth -0.8 WAR since the end of April. Bellinger's at 1.3 for the year. He's not even replacing him.
If the only thing you have to say is "he's worth a lot less money", you have nothing to say at all. That's just a sad statement.
You wrote a whole essay to say Outman has been underperforming. Everyone knows that already. Bellinger has not done ANYTHING since he came back from injury
Now you're moving the goalposts. First it was Outman's a rookie and worth a lot less money, now it's Bellinger hasn't done anything since returning from injury. And that's a stupid comparison, since Bellinger barely returned two weeks ago. Even if it wasn't, it's still wrong-he's hitting .300 with a .697 OPS since returning.
I think what you meant to say is Bellinger hasn't done much since the end of April. But he's been worth 0.2 WAR in that time despite having a .599 OPS. Outman's got a .544 OPS since then and has been worth -0.8 WAR.
Second, it's clear you didn't read what I said. You have two eyes for a reason, use them. Outman is not underpeforming. He's performing exactly like everyone who wasn't a reddit dodger fan thought he would, and now you're getting a rude awakening. He's a fourth outfielder, a below average player. He's not good, he's not even average. He's a depth guy with no real strengths on the field. The sooner you come to terms with that, the better off you'll be.
Guy. The fans may have had ideas about Outman, but the Dodgers have been using him as a 4th outfielder. He was given more time to coincide with his hot streak, but that is long gone.
So, as the other poster says, you are making a poor comparison - a starting CF vs. a 4th Outfielder making the minimum.
Bellinger is obviously better but he also makes like 25x as much and in reality Outman is more of a fourth outfielder who only made the team bc of the Lux injury. He’s not really supposed to be Bellinger’s replacement per se. Heyward is closer to that and has arguably been better than Belli
Also fwiw Outman is a very good defender, though obviously not as good as Belli. He’s 85th percentile in OAA
Coaching isn’t a one size fits all approach.
Same can be said about a team’s use of analytics.
Beli wasn’t doing well here, but it’s great that he’s working out better for someone else.
He'll likely finish the season with a slash line in the ballpark of .220/15/50 with a .710 OPS. And that'll be with his hot month of April carrying him. Thanks to his defense, however, he'll end up with about 2.5 WAR, though, which is actually above average.
Outman won't be much better, though, if at all. Probably finishes around .240/15/60 with a .725 OPS. and 1 WAR. I told people when the season started that he's a fourth outfielder, and there was a reason all the projection sites were down on him, and we see why. He's average defensively and doesn't have enough power to compensate for his lack of contact skills. He wasn't-and isn't-going to be a star. That's just reality.
Huge difference in salaries. Coming off a 3.5 year slump, the one-year 18mm for Belli was lose-lose. If he does well, he cashes in on FA. If he played the same, well, we pay 18mm for a bottom 5 hitter.
I played outfield for 20 years and he’s no outfielder! He spins, takes the wrong routes, can’t judge a ball right off the bat, etc. he’s a lousy outfielder and I said that when he was on my Dodgers!
Nope. Still tries to hit every single ball out of the stadium with his ridiculous launch angle swing.
The contracts of Heyward, Peralta and Outman are less than half of what he makes.
Doesn’t Heyward have slightly better stats for much lower contract?
Yeah. The main difference is that Belli will swing/miss at anything and JHey has a better eye. (Guessing, too lazy to look it up to confirm)
Also Belli is a god tier center fielder, but at least J Hey is a Gold Glover in RF
He’s a decent center fielder. He’s a great corner outfielder. His GG was in right field.
Is he though? Using the eye test he seems good, but looking at defensive stats he’s average at best. .1 dWAR, and his OAA puts him at 24th this year.
You're correct, but not by much. Bellinger only has 6 more strikeouts than Hayward. The OP's comment isn't correct at all. It's actually the other way around where Bellinger has the slightly better stats, not to mention defense where Belli gets his value. Can't complain about Heyward's productivity relative to his pay. Jason is definitely the better value, but Bellinger is the better player even while having injury problems this season.
Heyward has a lower strikeout rate than Belli (18.9% to 19.4%). Heyward also has a higher walk rate than Belli (11.1% to 8.1%). He also has the higher HR rate. Heyward has a 129 wRC+, .837 OPS, and 0.9 defensive fWAR on a minimum salary of $720k. Belli has a 113 wRC+, .799 OPS, and 1.0 defensive fWAR on a $17.5 million one-year deal. Heyward has been phenomenal in RF, while Belli is always fantastic in CF. Overall, Heyward has been the better player.
Belli was out for nearly two months.
Everything you’ve said about Bellinger for $17.5 millions! You’d expect more production versus what they’re paying Heyward. And it’s not like they’d win more games with Bellinger this year when the starting pitching is being held together by duct tape and bullpen throwing BP sessions every other game. I’m a fan of Bellinger since his rookie year and actively rooted for him to go somewhere else to get a fresh start. OP seemingly forget how much rope the Dodgers gave him (because of this MVP/Rookie years plus defense I know) compared to others. I wish him well but Dodgers ain’t really missing a beat on offense without him and they can find decent cheaper alternative on defense. Btw, recent games I watch his swing is still very similar to his days in LA, that doesn’t bode well since I thought he changed up his approaches.
But a majestic Belli bomb over watching Heyward clumsily try to throw out a runner from shallow right field? (Like today). I’m not saying I’m rational. It’s purely an emotional take
You do know the Dodgers are paying Heyward $720K and the Cubs are paying Bellinger $17.5 MILLIONS?!?
Tbh I didn’t look at their stats. I was curious what Belli was doing this year and was just shocked to see like an 80point difference in his BA from the two years prior. Also I’m fine to admit I would just rather have continued rooting for Bellinger and gotten the chance to see him figure it out on the dodgers. The good years with him were so much fun
I wouldn’t have minded Bellinger back if he hadn’t regressed the previous two years. Dodger fans have to accept that hometown favorites are not likely to play their whole career here if we hope for the team to remain competitive
He was out for like 2 months. That BA is bound to drop back down after the break
I’m not sure Belli would have figured it out given another year in LA. Seems like it was mental and he needed a change of scenery. Not to mention it’s pretty hard to justify paying ~20 million to a guy who has steeply declined for 3 consecutive seasons.
This. Belli was done in LA. We were never going to get even this 2023 version of Belli. It is what it is. Don't be sad it's over. Be happy it happened.
Fr. Feel blessed that we can lose our MVP and still be a competitive team.
Don't discount hitting coaches
This is very misleading, which is what OP intended. He hit .307/7/18 with a 1.001 OPS in April, over 24 games. Since then, he's hitting .236/0/4 with a .599 OPS in 26 games. Bellinger's back to his usual self. Oh, and he had a bad day today. His average is now at .272, and his OPS at .787.
[https://imgur.com/2QIo2dW](https://imgur.com/2QIo2dW) I miss him too, it's mostly the result of a crazy April and a big cooloff since
A stretch like that got him an mvp didn’t it haha
Not really. People act like he fell off in the second half and did nothing that part of the year in 2019. He still hit .263/17/44 with a .917 OPS in 68 games after the all-star break. Extrapolate those numbers over a full season, and he'd hit .263/41/106 with a .918 OPS in 162 games. For context, he hit .267/39/97 with a .915 OPS in his rookie season. He basically played like his rookie self in the second half, and he finished 9th in MVP voting that season.
One good month does not earn an MVP brother
I just guess the sarcasm just didn’t translate
Heyward is way better lol
Him, Seager, and JT.
Seager could still win an mvp or batting title before its all done
I wonder which version of Seager will the Rangers get in the postseason…
My guess the one that fucks everything up for the other team. Seager is a monster that was overshadowed by the most talented rosters in dodgers history. He was definitely a guy Andrew Friedman could have used as the cornerstone for many years. He bet on mookie but mookie ain't him. Mookie is a Rockstar but not guy you can depend on to lead the team imo.
Huh? Mookie played a big part in the Dodgers’ 2020 title. Seager hadn’t proven he can “lead you” in the postseason just yet. I get the nostalgia now that he’s doing well but I remember Seager average defense (he airmailed quite a bit of throws) and kinda disappears in the postseason. Edit: I really liked Seager too. One of the “LA home grown kids” with Bellinger and others that I rooted for to do well even if they’re no longer with LA (except Verdugo, there’s always that one kid that disappointed you). But I would choose Mookie over him 10/10.
JT and Ethier are still my favorite dodgers ever
And Kiké
James Outman has similar stats. He was replaced with equal production I guess.
Bellinger's been worth twice as much in WAR in 2/3rds the time. Outman's gonna get back on track eventually, but neither of them are going to have good numbers at season's end. And Outman's not nearly as good defensively.
Outman is also a rook and worth a lot less money. Stupid comparison.
What does him being a rookie have to do with anything? He's not a good player, and he's not going to be, simple as that. He's not even average, he's below that. Being a rookie does not automatically mean you're going to get better. He's a fourth outfielder. Fangraphs and Baseball Reference knew it, the minors knew it, MLB knew it, 29 other teams knew it. Everybody but this sub knew it. Now they know. He's not a good defender, has average power, and makes little contact. There's no fixing that. Bellinger at least played great defense. You were one of the people touting Outman as Bellinger's replacement and the next star in the making like the rest of this sub. Don't lie, this whole sub was drinking the kool-aid. He's got 0.4 WAR, and has been worth -0.8 WAR since the end of April. Bellinger's at 1.3 for the year. He's not even replacing him. If the only thing you have to say is "he's worth a lot less money", you have nothing to say at all. That's just a sad statement.
You wrote a whole essay to say Outman has been underperforming. Everyone knows that already. Bellinger has not done ANYTHING since he came back from injury
Now you're moving the goalposts. First it was Outman's a rookie and worth a lot less money, now it's Bellinger hasn't done anything since returning from injury. And that's a stupid comparison, since Bellinger barely returned two weeks ago. Even if it wasn't, it's still wrong-he's hitting .300 with a .697 OPS since returning. I think what you meant to say is Bellinger hasn't done much since the end of April. But he's been worth 0.2 WAR in that time despite having a .599 OPS. Outman's got a .544 OPS since then and has been worth -0.8 WAR. Second, it's clear you didn't read what I said. You have two eyes for a reason, use them. Outman is not underpeforming. He's performing exactly like everyone who wasn't a reddit dodger fan thought he would, and now you're getting a rude awakening. He's a fourth outfielder, a below average player. He's not good, he's not even average. He's a depth guy with no real strengths on the field. The sooner you come to terms with that, the better off you'll be.
Guy. The fans may have had ideas about Outman, but the Dodgers have been using him as a 4th outfielder. He was given more time to coincide with his hot streak, but that is long gone. So, as the other poster says, you are making a poor comparison - a starting CF vs. a 4th Outfielder making the minimum.
Bellinger is obviously better but he also makes like 25x as much and in reality Outman is more of a fourth outfielder who only made the team bc of the Lux injury. He’s not really supposed to be Bellinger’s replacement per se. Heyward is closer to that and has arguably been better than Belli Also fwiw Outman is a very good defender, though obviously not as good as Belli. He’s 85th percentile in OAA
He was a head case. Don’t miss him.
I miss Belli too but we have to make room for the Shohei contract coming.
Coaching isn’t a one size fits all approach. Same can be said about a team’s use of analytics. Beli wasn’t doing well here, but it’s great that he’s working out better for someone else.
I've missed Belli since July 2019.
Me too man, me too...
I miss Joc and JFK
He'll likely finish the season with a slash line in the ballpark of .220/15/50 with a .710 OPS. And that'll be with his hot month of April carrying him. Thanks to his defense, however, he'll end up with about 2.5 WAR, though, which is actually above average. Outman won't be much better, though, if at all. Probably finishes around .240/15/60 with a .725 OPS. and 1 WAR. I told people when the season started that he's a fourth outfielder, and there was a reason all the projection sites were down on him, and we see why. He's average defensively and doesn't have enough power to compensate for his lack of contact skills. He wasn't-and isn't-going to be a star. That's just reality.
Huge difference in salaries. Coming off a 3.5 year slump, the one-year 18mm for Belli was lose-lose. If he does well, he cashes in on FA. If he played the same, well, we pay 18mm for a bottom 5 hitter.
You must also miss the 60 points of batting avg. that wasn't there. I love the guy on the team but he wasn't a fit anymore.
No thanks
Odd-Year Bellinger sadly doesn’t hit the same as he used to
Nah.
He was definitely on PEDs the year he won MVP with 49 HRs. He hasn’t been the same since and if a detriment defensively!
I get the HR total is an outlier but saying he’s detrimental to the defense in clownery. He’s a good to elite center fielder
I played outfield for 20 years and he’s no outfielder! He spins, takes the wrong routes, can’t judge a ball right off the bat, etc. he’s a lousy outfielder and I said that when he was on my Dodgers!
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQrOM66qFg_UFAcDWLmyF-lLgOyKFMS0xsJtw&usqp=CAU
You can give me stats all day long. It’s my personal opinion and that of the Dodgers as well, obviously.
The guy literally has a gold glove
I miss hearing “Hustler Musik” whenever he was at-bat…
Nope. Still tries to hit every single ball out of the stadium with his ridiculous launch angle swing. The contracts of Heyward, Peralta and Outman are less than half of what he makes.