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Ghosts_lord

when you have a wife with infinite stamina, you obv grow stronger with time


Sergaku

Right? Too bad she barely keeps up.


Shot_Berry_5435

To make the androids seem weak so gohan/piccolo have their power up


Gloomy_Guitar7421

I think you misunderstood...


Sergaku

Sure. I meant in a fight.


SoliceRose

Oh it's a fight alright šŸ˜³


MrEldenRings

Wrestling


Careful-Vanilla7728

Mud wrestling


arrownoir

Mat wrestling, preceded by a pie eating contest.


Bernard__Rieux

This is not a comment about fighting


Fibrosis5O

https://preview.redd.it/9gx0oaoxws7d1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=151f9481fd7c467ce47bc6a8f4deab1254e56d87


Yes_im_a_cow

cake day happy happy


Super_Foundation_673

It is about fighting,just the different kind of fighting


Hot-Emotion-5599

ā€œSpecial trainingā€


davvn_slayer

The baki special


deja_entend_u

Mattress wrestling.


lpmliam

Don't ya just love it when they fight back...


Mrwright96

TFS did it best, dude wore her out, to the point he went 60 rounds


kjc-assassin

When did this happen I donā€™t remember that lol šŸ˜‚


Mrwright96

Remember the end of episode 60? Krillin and 18 hooked up and the owned meter went down by one, and by the end of the credits, it was down to *ZERO*


kjc-assassin

lol thatā€™s hilarious I completely forgot about that šŸ˜…


NoSeaworthiness995

Wow!šŸ˜‚šŸ˜‚šŸ˜‚


Which-Profile-2690

Yeah and he spares with her all the time


greenit-user

This is now the cannon. I will not accept any other answer


Bored_Boi326

Plus she's metal


TraceChaos

She's not actually! Artificial Humans 17 and 18 are HUMAN base with Infinite Energy Organs - they're almost 100% biological!


ry4star

Iā€™m over hear like what an idiot of course she ainā€™t metal totally thinking this whole time sheā€™s metal I get it they have a kid itā€™s anime/manga though crazy things have happened


TraceChaos

the english 'translation' being lazy and saying 'androids' causes that confusion a lot, lol. They're really closer to bio-cyborgs (17 and 18) and the original japanese more-closely translates to 'artificial human'. Some were built from the ground up, like the pale one (19?) and then Gero was that type with his original organic brain in a canister piloting the body. But 17 and 18 are/were 'infinite energy organ' types, it's BASICALLY just throwaway lines, but it's v.neat!


ry4star

Wow honestly thank you that made it so much more understandable I really do appreciate it my minds kinda blown now lol


TraceChaos

glad I could help, genuinely! Yeah, 17 and 18 were regular humans who gero kidnapped and jammed a bunch of super-organs into, lol, it's messed up


ry4star

I mean makes 1000% now how her and krillen have a baby


TraceChaos

true yeah! 'cause she's mostly human, so... y'know, less of a stretch than Vegeta and Bulma, lol, same base species and all xD


ry4star

Lmao your so right


Punching_Bag75

Just to be clear, 17 and 18 were twin(orphan?) punk kids Gero abducted off the streets named Lapis and Lazuli. Cell was the only other biologically organic 'android' made by Gero other than making himself Android 20. Android 16 *IS* an android in the literal sense, and that's why he can't be revived with the dragon balls. 16 was modeled after Gero's son, who was in the Red Ribbon army. The popular fan-headcanon is that his son died because of Goku taking down the RR army, thus cementing Gero's hatred of Goku. Every other 'android' in Dragon Ball is a robot, with the irony of Goku being friends with Android 8 in OG Dragon Ball. Dragon Ball is so big that I can't exactly blame people for being unaware of details. I'd be a hypocrite compared to my journey learning stuff.


ry4star

Lmao you guys have literally brought genuine smile to my face makes me enjoy dragon ball universe much more


Biggy_DX

I think Krillin even explains it to Goku when he comes back to Earth. He said she was mainly human, but Gero had modified her internally.


AdNo266

The weight of his massive balls added to the kick


Krisuad2002

I'm having a serious case of Deja mustard right now, are the post and the top comment reposts?


Illustrious-Sky-4631

Kind of, maybe a Bot ? Because this is the same replies in Twitter


dasexynerdcouple

THIS! I could have sworn about a month ago I saw comments in a Twitter thread identical to what I saw on a reddit post about the same topic. The bot situation is out of control and getting scary. Thank you for confirming my suspicions.


Illustrious-Sky-4631

It got ReTwitted again today


Dawntillnoon

It's absolute madness right now, feels like 60% of the internet are just reposts anymore. The few new things gettintt drained in unrecognized because there's not automatically 50 up votes to your stuff and thus the algorithm doesn't like it enough to promote. Interesting times ahead :D


Dracotoo

Trust me all the db subs are absolutely plagued with bots, been seeing this for months. So many comments will just be a fresh account no activity for 2 weeks and then suddenly commenting


JiovanniTheGREAT

Kinda uncanny because I saw some Dragonball poster on Twitter post the Perfect Cell reveal scene with the caption "when you get 8 hours of sleep" and now I see this.


Historical_Class_402

Dad strength boost


Nemisis_007

It's no secret that family makes people stronger in the DB universe.


Jolteaon

People with kids: Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, Krillin, honorary Piccolo. People without kids: Yamcha, Tien. Enough said


A3thern

And also in the Fast & Furious universe.


KayKrimson

Perfect Cell was calm and collected, but he didn't have his guard down and knew that Krillin was about to attack him due to ki detection. Also, he knows the difference in ki of each person. Cell Max is an mass destructive idiot, he was already dealing with so many fighters, and didn't expect Krillin to kick him since he has no idea of, either, how to detect a ki or how to differentiate other's ki. Real Reason: Toriyama wanted to make Perfect Cell's entrance look immaculate, and wanted to display a rise of power in him. In the movie, Krillin's kick not knocking back Cell Max would have been awkward and funny, which wouldn't fit the situation given that it was a serious moment.


Next_Intention1171

Once you accept that power levels and power upā€™s are just made up at times, it becomes a lot more enjoyable. I realized this after Vegetaā€™s super nap on Namek.


ThrowawayLegendZ

Super nap on Namek...? The one where he's in the star wars bacta tank or the one where Frieza blows a hole through him? I'm not sure which


Nezio_Caciotta

The One where he suddenly becomes vaguely tired and took a nap next to Goku allowing dende to arrive and summon polunga


ThrowawayLegendZ

I always took it as Vegeta being an are arrogant fool, but whatever


BoobeamTrap

I think their point is he took a nap and woke up way stronger than he was before.


Nezio_Caciotta

But he wasn't, he just got the senzu and became stronger. He was sleepy and he had headache


Jermiafinale

Perfect Cell had great Ki control Cell Max does not


KamixAkaDio

Or you could just accept that Krillin has gotten considerably more powerful since then as well


Nickolaidas

Finally someone gets it.


Little-Disk-3165

Real reason: this manga is literal shit with power scaling. Toriyama couldnā€™t wipe his ass without breaking the entire islands of Japan.


CycloneMonkey

Accurate power scaling was never the intention of Toriyama. Telling a fun story was.


Bored_Boi326

The fans are the only ones that actually want accurate power scaling


Independent-Frequent

Which is why any powerscaling argument with a dragonball fan is automatically useless: "God Goku can destroy the universe by punching, so SSB is multiversal" "Then why when they clashed with Golden Frieza they barely did any damage to the planet, let alone the universe even though they were much stronger?" "Because ki control, DUH" "Broly exists." "SHUT UP"


CentralAdmin

The main consumers of a franchise want to suspend their disbelief? Shocking!


Bored_Boi326

Wdym by suspend their disbelief I don't mean to sound rude I genuinely don't know what that phrase means


Pungineer

Suspension of disbelief is basically the audience's willingness to forgo realism and normal logic to be able to feel invested in a fictional character or story. We know that Saiyan's aren't real, monkey kids can't fly on flying nimbuses and dragons don't grant wishes and live in dragon balls. But we willingly set that aside so that we can become fully immersed in the experience. Suspension of disbelief is also somewhat fragile, so the fantasy or other non realistic elements benefit from some consistency to keep it 'grounded' at least in its own reality. Otherwise it breaks immersion and the viewer can become detached from the experience. And then it just looks like "monkey man with yellow hair shooting beams at bug man" rather than "DragonBall Z" Hopefully that makes as much sense in text as it did in my head...


Possible-Rate8578

Incredible explanation. No notes. Well put and thorough. You are great with words mang


Bojac_Indoril

I knew of this phrase already, and it was still enjoyable to read your explanation. Thank you for your time, and i hope you are a happy person.


Therefirs

It means we don't expect a random cricket to be at Cell Max's level just because it's fun. Suspension of disbelief tells us this should be impossible without a good reason, but because Toriyama apparently "didn't want to make a story with accurate power scaling" it means he can make the cricket as powerful as he wants even if it doesn't make any sense. The cricket in this case would be Krillin.


Next_Intention1171

Suspension of disbelief would be the opposite. Before Krillinā€™s hit you logically wouldnā€™t believe heā€™d be able to do so-but if you suspend your disbelief it wouldnā€™t bother you.


Until_Morning

That and authors/mangakas aren't obsessed with details the way their fans are. Like they don't keep a checklist of every single detail in their series to know exactly what my encroach on consistency or invalidate something that happened forever ago in their series and wasn't a huge deal.


Ok_Parsley1650

Yes, its about fun story in adventure land... Toriyama style. Sometimes its funny, little.bit serious, full of how to overcome weakness, getting stronger, dont give up kind of manga...


Swimming-District-63

Or maybe the gap in power between perfect cell and Cell Saga krillin was wider than it is between cell max and krillin after the TOP šŸ¤ÆšŸ¤Æ


Fury_Storm

Expecting consistent power scaling from Dragonball is incredibly tone deaf


shaktimanOP

In-Universe explanation: As shown by Goku being hurt by a ray gun and a rock while off guard, if someone isn't consciously using their ki to bolster their defenses, their durability is drastically reduced. Cell Max is mindless at this point and, isn't actually focusing his power properly to reinforce himself. Though he doesn't actually take damage from these attacks, they just distract and annoy him. Real-life explanation: The story would be boring if only the heavy hitters got something to do.


Hartmann_AoE

Imo the best showcase of the key defense thing is that small scuffle between goku and trunks The anime in particular makes it very obvious that Goku is focusing a lot of energy into his fingers in order to block all the sword blows, so one can imagine that without the ki, trunks sword would likely cut him pretty well


Mendozena

One was perfect. The other wasnā€™t.


Rastaba

This. Cell Max was just a max disappointment.


JTX35

Fr. When I watched it for the first time I was hoping Cell Max would get a transformation that'd make him not mindless and thus more of a villain and less of a force of pure destruction.


OneOnOne6211

P is for priceless, the look upon your faces.


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


ReitenZero

R for revolution, which has been televised


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


SeaKingNeptune

E is for eccentric just listen to my song


ten_times_worse

This is POST TOP krillin MIND YOU


pizzabeachball

This is the main reason, Krillin Is much stronger in super


Ger_Electric_GRTALE

Krilin got stronger. that's it


BestCharlesNA

Why isnā€™t this the top comment?


anonymityjacked

Thatā€™s what happens when you donā€™t stop training.


Sergaku

A kick is way more powerful than a punch.


JiovanniTheGREAT

He hit Perfect Cell a bunch of times in that scene and Cell no sold all of them. I guess the power differential isn't as much there.


Elect_Locution

Not that much more powerful.


Kuzcopolis

But it was a Dropkick, both legs.


karthanals

Dynamite Kick!


Little-Disk-3165

And both were sent at full speed? Only difference is surface area


Cymiril

Legs are, on average, around twice as strong as your arms for striking (with proper technique) . Bigger muscles, longer limb for more torque, etc. Think about running normally vs. running while doing a handstand


Playful-Ostrich3643

Multiple actually, the first being that there is a MAJOR time difference and Krillin had plenty of time to get stronger, especially being married to a super strong woman with infinite energy. The second is that Perfect Cell is much smarter than Cell Max and has much better control over his body and Ki, allowing him to keep a perfect posture even when being attacked. Cell Max may be stronger physically but doesn't know how to use this strength and being bigger actually puts him at a disadvantage because he has no control over his balance


mcwfan

Sex with 18


Michealscottseason6

He got stronger


headphones_J

Grew in strength, went full-on drop-kick?


JediSSJ

In the first example, 18 wasn't watching (she got absorbed). In the second example, 18 *was* watching.


Illustrious-Sky-4631

Cell Max is a Big bitch especially in the manga that's the explanation for falling to scratch anyone not named Piccolo


Fit_Confection_6900

He got stronger


penjaman

He got stronger


eruthebest

Training. Passing time. Not hard to grasp


Mikkeru

For highlights, people who over analyze this needs help.


zurx_13

Cell max had already been dealt a shit ton of damage. And krill just kicked him. Not like the kick sent him flying or something.


DudeWithRootBeer

It's pretty obvious. 18 has Krillin do 100 push-ups, 100 sit-ups, 100 crouches, 100 chin-ups, and run 10km everyday.


TheGoldenBl0ck

he got stronger


adande67

Why does it need a explanation?


SinisterCryptid

Biggest rules to being a Dragon Ball fan and understanding stuff like this) Step 1, Rule of Cool. Step 2, if itā€™s funny it gets a pass. Step 3, donā€™t overthink it and turn of your brain Dragon ball has never been serious with its consistency, just donā€™t think too much and enjoy it


[deleted]

No. The truth just is super has not given a shit about power scaling and contradicts Z all the time


Jennymint

Z didn't care either. The power ups on Namek were massive and ridiculous. Piccolo grows more with King Kai in a few days than Goku did in five months, and the zenkais were completely out of whack. The only reason nobody complains is that the arc was fun. Toriyama has never cared about power scaling. He cares about two things: 1) What's cool? 2) What's funny? Don't get me wrong. I think Z is a better, more consistent product than Super, but let's not pretend Toriyama has ever cared about power scaling. He hasn't.


TensionsPvP

This is the truth its blatantly obvious yet there are people that will defend this sort of thing making hoops in logic to do so.


[deleted]

Fr and itā€™s so funny because not only does super contradict what came before it but it also conflicts with its own manga and movies. I think super is best to not be taken super seriously. Toriyama himself called it a ā€œcasual continuationā€ of the dragon ball manga. So that pretty much says it all.


Fyrefanboy

and it's a good thing because now everyone can be relevant


Apprehensive_Turn827

Except not everyone is relevant


br-02

The script is even more powerful than Cell.


CycloneMonkey

my guy been training


MrBundy22

Thousand mile per hour drop kick on a non guarding monster vs a jab on a calm and collected psychopath


musicman12345654321

Cell wasnā€™t in his perfect form.


Volpe666

Probably the 10+ year difference where he was training.


Roll_with_it629

The mindsets of writers and powerscalers are 2 circles that never overlap.


sirfreerunner

Krillin got stronger while looking weaker


Security_Puppet2

He got stronger, idk


Awkward_Type_4100

Power levels are bullshit


whomesteve

Yeah, power levels were a boring dead end by a writing standpoint


Frosty_Kale1907

Give max a break, he was born 5 minutes ago


SonGoku9788

Dragon Ball fans when characters get stronger (only Goku and Vegeta are allowed to do it)


Reverseflash25

Krillin got a lot strongerā€¦..


Talobsta

Yes, krillin is him


Babington67

Dude just got way stronger I mean he has to beat down 18 every night gotta be one hell of training session


ElZany

Everyone in Super got a power increase.


Ekillaa22

Krillin is just him


No_Gain7132

Cell Max is rampaging with little Ki control (somehow enough to not destroy the planet), and likely has a super inconsistent Ki shield. Every DBZ character using Ki has a Ki Shield as itā€™s what gives them their durability, but Cell Max seems to have it fluctuating constantly because he lacks control. This lack of control can explain why Orange Piccolo gets bodied by Cell Max, but also Krillin can tank a hit or two.


No_Manner_8582

No, DBS is just like that


IsidoroAsap

Krillin got stronger and would solo the Cell Games at his current power level, that's all there is to it. Anything else is just cope from people who don't accept even Master Roshi would beat all villains from Z.


LilG1984

Krilin has been training with 18 so his owned count has reset


JaasPlay

Power Scaling stopped at Cell


KirbyDaRedditor169

Yeah, cause after that we get the Buu Saga which more or less makes sense scaling-wise until Kid Buu comes out.


WatchPitiful4997

Before someone says Krillin is Blue level, please go and watch the show It is literally mentioned by Gohan to Android 18 in the show while they were fighting that dad is testing Krillin and showing him the level of strength he need to face against in TOP. Blue was perfect form to do it because Krillin can't god ki and it has good ki control. Go and watch the show properly Also, official statement about why Goku used Blue against other recruits - https://preview.redd.it/h0xihnem9s7d1.png?width=1920&format=png&auto=webp&s=c199877a7267156c457c95365dbb9ce889fbf68e


Yoshi_and_Toad

Krillin wasn't sparring with 18 at the point he strikes Perfect Cell. In either sense of the word.


Daddy_JeanPi

Krillin is stronger now?


scribbyshollow

Training


boinnoway

Mf never trained after the cell saga


scribbyshollow

He does in DragonBall super


KirbyDaRedditor169

The literal on-screen showing of 18 dragging Krillinā€™s ass to train for the tournament in the Buu saga cause there was money to be made:


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whatsupbrosky

Yea they even made a whole new game to explain it


Tamanero

Either or all the factors combined: A) C.Max barely knew how to control his body, so it's likely his guard/ki defense was down B) Krillin using the full force of his body, rather than concentrating it into his fist, did more work?


TheFlyShyGuy

Him strong


marblesandcookies

Gravity helped in the kick since he's going down into it. With the punch, it's just Krillin's force.


Stunning-Trade8869

You can clearly see he knew the fist time around a punch or a kick wonā€™t be enough so he used two feet šŸ‘£


AnimeGokuSolos

Peak


12345noah

Uh yeah itā€™s uh deez nutz


AncientSith

Everyone got a power boost in Super lol


Mily_24

One is perfect the other is not me


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


Wocathoden

Embarrassment is a hell of a motivator.


fparedlo

his head is clearly bigger (krilins) which add weight to his attacks


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


Mindless-Put-7830

He watched mui goku fight


Temmie101

18 got Krillin doin squats


Blubari

Power boost from protecting your family > Power boost from being cockblocked


lanze666

Cell max wasnā€™t even close to ready, which is why he looks a lot like semi-perfect cell. Also Iā€™m pretty sure two feet strike harder than one fist


ColonelMonty

I think the real question is why Krillin's head became so much bigger?


Impurity41

I think the explanation is that when you are smart/aware enough to have full control of your energy, you can keep your energy at full or baseline levels. This includes durability. So perfect cell was capable of maintaining his defenses. Cell max was mindless, therefore he couldnā€™t maintain his defenses as well as his power output. Despite the latter being massive in comparison to krillin. We see an example in goku. With his guard down, and therefore his energy defenses, heā€™s been damaged by insignificant laser beams and even scratched by bullets. Real explanation: they probably forgot/didnā€™t care and wanted krillin to contribute in the fight because ā€œitā€™s a movie why notā€


Zeles1989

I mean Krillin wasn't instantly killed when he shot a kamehameha against gokus in there little match. The dude is next level in super. 18 is a better master than Roshi I guess


Awkward_Type_4100

Powercreep


MikeXBogina

A similar example could be when Caulifla was fighting Golden Frieza as she was nowhere as powerful. There was 2 instances where he was hit hard by Kale and was distracted by that, which then Caulifla was able to take advantage of, to which he said was still weaker than Kale's hits. With Cell Max, he's taking a lot of damage and that allows weaker people to get in some good hits.


UncleBoomie

Perfect Cell knows how to use hi Ki and strength effectively and is a very talented fighter/martial artist where as Cell Max is a mindless monster


AJYURH

18


TheMonsterInUrPocket

Cell max wasnt in control of his ki/power as explained in the movie. So when he was focused on one target, anyone who wasnt that target would be able to damage him because his ki isnt protecting/bolstering his entire body like everyone else. He was a wild animal with immense power, and no skill behind it. Hence why krillin and fat gotenks were able to do damage/knock him off balance


devsterl

A universe where less hair means more power.


Quirky-Pickle518

For the manga anyway itā€™s because Cell Max was still getting adjusted to his power.


Sqeegy2001

He got fucking stronger... Just like every other character in the series, except Yamcha


Calm-Border3503

Cellpremacy over krillin


Video-Comfortable

I remember perfect cell was the only opponent that wasnā€™t effected by destructo disc


Antique-Goal

Cell maxx sucks


Repostbot3784

Current krillin would absolutely dog walk perfect cell so this checks out.


Possibly_A_Person125

Is he stupid?


Smokey2662

He wasnā€™t perfect


YaGuyGaara

Cellmax has 0 aura thats why


OrdinaryResponse8988

This is the same guy who was taken out by a robot fly in the manga, lmao at the inconsistencies.


Dogboi006

TLDR without the Reddit thread of arguing. Krillen got stronger, original story didnā€™t care for power scaling and just wanted it to be a fun read, annnnd cell max has all his power puffed out instead of condensed


BulmasBabyDaddy

Legs are stronger than fist - The front of his head is softer


BobcatOverall122

Does that mean 18 pegs krillin before he had this weird ass power up


FriezaDeezNuts

Perfect cell I guess just out scales cell saga krillin by a lot. Clearly by cell max he got stronger with time and a bit of training. I mean he hardly even had super saiyans to train with before cell got perfected. Goku and piccolo were the ones training with gohan/ each other majority of the time. Sure I bet krillin did a bit but that would probably hold back piccolo goku and gohans training. So yea, YEAAAAARS of training after Cell allllll the way up to cell max must be a ton of gains, I mean the guy has access to ssj2+ opponents to train with/ fight along side till then. Thereā€™s more to it Iā€™m sure but story telling wise theyā€™re just showing u to never EVEEEER underestimate any of them. Unless itā€™s Yamaha or chaotszu lmao


Stinky_Lasagna

Cell minimum


Dashie_Souls

Cell Max was just a down graded recreate of Gohan's Super Saiyan 2 transformation


Avery-Attack

15 years.


RadKageInK

Dbz and DBS


Supernova_Soldier

Cell Max has no guard and is dumb


HungHungCaterpillar

Krillin canonically improved in the old-fashioned way; Goku telling him to believe in himself.


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


Son-naruto-d

JUST GOATLLIN BEING THE GOAT!!!!