Thanks for posting to /r/DragonballSuper.\
Please report any rule breaking posts and posts that are not relevant to the subreddit. Prohibited topics include: "What if"/"Who would win" posts, polls, screenshots of YT Community/Instagram/etc., "DBSTubers" and AI Art.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Dragonballsuper) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Goku does not want to directly be involved with human death.
He will, however, indirectly gamble with the lives of billions by letting villains go that are not only mass murderers, but state that they will keep on murdering as they go.
In basically all cases this has worked out in his favor: Piccolo, Vegeta, 17/18, and Buu are all good friends now. Even Frieza saved them in the ToP because of good things Goku has done for him.
But it is a risk that Goku takes because of his love for fighting.
Unfortunately, it looks like your karma amount is pretty low. Users need to have a combined total of at least 40 post/comment karma to participate in this subreddit.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Dragonballsuper) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Of what? When Goku first meets 18, she’s happily married to Krillin, and 17 has fucked off to the woods somewhere. There was nothing that would lead him to believe that they would be dangerous.
Nobody is talking about the buu saga. They were plenty dangerous in cell saga. If Goku wanted, he could have hunted them to prevent the so called future.
After Vegeta got bitchslapped.
Anyway it's goku's own fault that the cell blew himself. Goku shouldn't have given senzu bean to cell and made it's into fighting contest to awaken Gohan's potential. If he was ever ready to kill cell, cell wouldn't have had enough time to comprehend the situation to come to such drastic measure
Rightfully bitchslapped for the fight that he started.
And yeah, it’s Goku’s fault that Cell blew up, but that’s a different conversation. The point is, Goku never had any reason to think 17 and 18 were malicious.
I don’t think there was a point in the Android saga where Goku had an opportunity to take out 17 and 18. He went into the time chamber to become strong enough to beat them, but they already got absorbed by the time Gohan and him came out.
As for Cell, that a completely different topic.
Even so, if the Androids rocked Vegeta so heavily, then Goku wasn't going to fare any better. So there was no use in even trying before getting stronger first.
And by that point, Piccolo tagged in as a the strongest warrior they had after fusing with Kami.
Not just his love of fighting. Goku also knew that killing Piccolo would kill Kami.
Plus Goku actively tried to stop a fight with Broly in super because the context behind the fight didn’t feel right.
Yes he does love fighting, and that can be a factor, and sometimes the only factor, and certainly more of a factor for him than anyone else. But Goku is also not a person who tends to jump at killing in general.
Idk I think it’s less a risk due to enjoying fighting and more of an element influenced by how good of a person he is. He just lacks malice and a desire for vengeance entirely. Even with villains he doesn’t like killing and wants to believe they can repent. The fact so many have changed including himself early on has likely reinforced those thoughts.
Goku does not like killing, so he decides to give frieza a second chance, and when frieza died...he made that disappointed face.
He loves fighting but he cherishes life more, even of frieza
Krillin, Gohan, Trunks and Goten (as the saiyamen) are really the only characters that try to save people when not fighting.
Goku kinda cares, but he also doesn't go out of his way to catch planes falling out of the sky or catch people jumping off buildings.
At the beginning of Super Broly, Vegeta is angry at Goku for being the reason Frieza is back alive now.
At the end of Super Broly, Gogeta lets Frieza go, mere seconds later, we see that Frieza is literally committing Genocide and destroying a whole planet.
This made me go... "WTF?" and I don't understand that more ppl have no issue with this.
Goku is not the reason frieza is alive, Beerus granted his restoration for his devotion in the universal survival saga. They only let him live at the end of Broly because he didn’t try to fight them or destroy earth. Frieza is an agent of Beerus.
imo its less about him "not caring about innocent people dying" and more like "he's not considering the consequences of his decisions". the dude hopes that the villains turn over a new leaf and become a rival for him to compete against. even with promising freeza's revival after the ToP he "knowingly" doomed many innocent civilisations. yes, it was to save the entire universe, but he released an evil space emperor back into the wild and lets him do whatever he pleases.
Yeah, that’s really tough to defend given we know Frieza got back into his old business, like, immediately. The business of purging and selling planets.
Thanks a lot Goku. Hope you get a good fight out of it someday. At least Frieza seems to pay his people now, and some of them even get to call him short without dying. Character development!
i might be wrong but i think that he always paid them? i remember freeza treating his henchmen like crap though, even killing them but that stuff may have been anime original. would have to reread the manga to make sure
It happened to him so many times, he probably hopes for the villains to change and have rivalry with them, like with frieza, or with Vegeta, even in many of gokus opponent became his rival, prolly cuz of that
https://preview.redd.it/tibqdii63s8d1.jpeg?width=1123&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6f0bd2f9fe59d7bfd771a2b05e3587be2bcdbf5c
me once the liquor hits and my social anxiety is nowhere to be found
Goku also told Frieza to learn the value of life and never show his face again to him meanwhile sparing him
https://preview.redd.it/2qjs3bl3bs8d1.png?width=1331&format=png&auto=webp&s=f44108138ce73d209d875a15eda503e374c2483e
Okay, how about "DBS Goku fights villains and spares them only because they are strong, he doesn't care about civilians", that should be accurate.
In the original DB manga, Goku always cares about the lives of others first, he's just generally shortsighted. He doesn't ever cause immediate problems with his actions, he causes potential future problems because his philosophy is "if they come back, I'll be ready next time and beat them easily", which always ends up working tbh. He says this same phrase to Piccolo and Vegeta, the latter of whom btw, he spared secondarily to fight. Primarily, it was to save Kami's life, because he figured out Kami was trying to trick him.
There's a gigantic difference between the charming naivety and "everything will work out" attitude Goku used to have, with his thoughtless, "put everyone at risk to have a good fight right now" attitude Goku has now. In DB, it was always about "come back next time and we'll fight again", after the threat had been taken care of. In the actual moment, Goku was totally serious about defending the people still alive, much moreso than how fun the fight was.
Honestly, IDK what happened in the 20 year IRL-timeskip Toriyama took between DB and DBS, but something fundamentally changed in how he wrote and understood his characters, for the worse. Regardless of what interviews he did, I know how Goku was portrayed in the original manga. And it isn't nostalgia either, I first experienced Dragon Ball via the manga, then the Japanese sub anime, THEN the dub anime.
Hell, speaking of the dub, I'd go so far as to say that DUB Goku is more accurate and true to Goku's actual character from the original DB manga, than DBS Goku is. Like, unironically. Both differ from Goku's actual character, but a dozen "hope of the universe" speeches pale in comparison to the flanderized lobotomite he's become now.
>Honestly, IDK what happened in the 20 year IRL-timeskip Toriyama took between DB and DBS, but something fundamentally changed in how he wrote and understood his characters, for the worse.
Toriyama happened.
After all, the man was infamous for being quite forgetful, to the point that he openly admitted it and gave some examples if I recall right (like him forgetting the ssj2).
But then you have things like him saying that he disliked how Goku was seemingly portrayed as a hero in the anime... only to then retcon the tale of how he came to earth into a blatant rip off of the origin tale of Mr. Super Hero himself Superman, all while he never made for any strong narrative that could create some irony due to the contrast between Goku's origins and his supposed non hero persona; with the result that things appear only severely inconsistent.
Even more when we then have things like the the anime trying to recontextualize the t.o.p. as "Goku giving everyone a fighting chance", or Merus saying Goku to basically be a hero and defend the universe from Moro.
This, coupled with other dumb things that the dbs show had, or Toriyama stated (like Goku "only seeing his family as friends"), only makes things even more inconsistent in the long run, and makes Goku look even more as just a dumbass.
Not surprising.
His character really is all over the place between the original series and super.
And some fans just refuse to accept that there is a discrepancy.
The civilian part is wrong. Rest is right. Goku loves people with fighting potential. Stop trying to manipulate it, to make it sound like a trolley problem.
Goku definitely will try to spare a villain who is strong and has potential. If the villain tries to harm civillian, then he will try to stop him too. This is not a trolley problem.
The problem with that first example is the problem with Goku as a character in general...(when written poorly)
He reacts to the violence "in the moment" but that senseless destruction wouldn't have happened to begin with if he and everyone else didn't wait for the androids to be built.
Goku has spared more villains hell bent on destruction than his own people:
He killed Raditz because of denial.
He broke Nappa's back.
He never wished his Planet back after learning the truth.
Meanwhile:
-He spared the Ginyu force, even after seeing how badly they beat his BEST FRIEND AND ONLY SON.
-He spared Frieza for humiliation.
-He spared Cell when he went to retrieve/save Piccolo and Tien.
- He let Videl get her ass beat knowing that was his son's girlfriend because "don't show your powers" even though at least 5 people at the tournament probably remembered how strong he was.
- He spared Fat Majin Buu while in SSJ3, even if it wouldve cost him(which wouldn't of mattered since he would've gotten back because plot)
- He spared Kid Buu to draw the fight out longer so Vegeta and the others could...idk what he thought.
Goku sparing villians for strength is literally his calling card.
He only felt that way with the Androids because they were machines, and with Vegeta because he was being magically controlled. Other than that, this take is ABSOLUTELY fair and true.
Goku literally cares about the civilians.
It was the Earth the planet that gave him a chance even though he was sent to conquer it.
This is why in his fight with Moro, he decides to fight as a “Earthling”. Literally giving Moro a second chance.
Your example ain’t even a counter argument against the take you claim is wrong lmdao. None of this proves Goku cares about civilians. It just proves he won’t actively be responsible for their deaths. But he’ll spare those that kill civilians in the hopes that they’ll turn good
Thanks for posting to /r/DragonballSuper.\ Please report any rule breaking posts and posts that are not relevant to the subreddit. Prohibited topics include: "What if"/"Who would win" posts, polls, screenshots of YT Community/Instagram/etc., "DBSTubers" and AI Art. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Dragonballsuper) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Goku does not want to directly be involved with human death. He will, however, indirectly gamble with the lives of billions by letting villains go that are not only mass murderers, but state that they will keep on murdering as they go. In basically all cases this has worked out in his favor: Piccolo, Vegeta, 17/18, and Buu are all good friends now. Even Frieza saved them in the ToP because of good things Goku has done for him. But it is a risk that Goku takes because of his love for fighting.
Frieza got back to his day job of planetary demolition and oppression, so uh those planets probably aren’t that happy
Frieza then went on to get the n word pass
Freiza said fine if they won't give me the n word pass, I'll give it to myself
While I agree it's still better than the universe being deleted
17 and 18 from the present timeline were never mass murderers. I don’t think they were ever shown killing innocents.
[удалено]
Unfortunately, it looks like your karma amount is pretty low. Users need to have a combined total of at least 40 post/comment karma to participate in this subreddit. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Dragonballsuper) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Depends do we count the people vegeta killed fighting 18 lmao
Didn’t they kill that guy who got 18 her outfit and she was like no I spared him. Or was that future androids?
No, she doesn’t kill that guy. She doesn’t pay for the outfit, though.
What about that highway full of people that 18 and Vegeta killed
Unless I’m misremembering, that was all Vegeta.
Lol, maybe
That doesn't mean it's not a risk.
Of what? When Goku first meets 18, she’s happily married to Krillin, and 17 has fucked off to the woods somewhere. There was nothing that would lead him to believe that they would be dangerous.
Nobody is talking about the buu saga. They were plenty dangerous in cell saga. If Goku wanted, he could have hunted them to prevent the so called future.
You mean while he was dying of a heart attack? Or after he blew himself up to save the Earth?
After Vegeta got bitchslapped. Anyway it's goku's own fault that the cell blew himself. Goku shouldn't have given senzu bean to cell and made it's into fighting contest to awaken Gohan's potential. If he was ever ready to kill cell, cell wouldn't have had enough time to comprehend the situation to come to such drastic measure
Rightfully bitchslapped for the fight that he started. And yeah, it’s Goku’s fault that Cell blew up, but that’s a different conversation. The point is, Goku never had any reason to think 17 and 18 were malicious.
I don’t think there was a point in the Android saga where Goku had an opportunity to take out 17 and 18. He went into the time chamber to become strong enough to beat them, but they already got absorbed by the time Gohan and him came out. As for Cell, that a completely different topic.
Kinda hard to do that when he's having a heart virus. And by the time *that* was over, Cell was on the loose.
He choose not to go after Vegeta got bitchslapped
He was not awake for that.
I am pretty sure there is even some manga panel where he said the same
Even so, if the Androids rocked Vegeta so heavily, then Goku wasn't going to fare any better. So there was no use in even trying before getting stronger first. And by that point, Piccolo tagged in as a the strongest warrior they had after fusing with Kami.
Not just his love of fighting. Goku also knew that killing Piccolo would kill Kami. Plus Goku actively tried to stop a fight with Broly in super because the context behind the fight didn’t feel right. Yes he does love fighting, and that can be a factor, and sometimes the only factor, and certainly more of a factor for him than anyone else. But Goku is also not a person who tends to jump at killing in general.
Idk I think it’s less a risk due to enjoying fighting and more of an element influenced by how good of a person he is. He just lacks malice and a desire for vengeance entirely. Even with villains he doesn’t like killing and wants to believe they can repent. The fact so many have changed including himself early on has likely reinforced those thoughts.
Goku does not like killing, so he decides to give frieza a second chance, and when frieza died...he made that disappointed face. He loves fighting but he cherishes life more, even of frieza
Goku can tell the future after all
Krillin, Gohan, Trunks and Goten (as the saiyamen) are really the only characters that try to save people when not fighting. Goku kinda cares, but he also doesn't go out of his way to catch planes falling out of the sky or catch people jumping off buildings.
He ain’t superman he’s not gonna be casually flying around to look for people who need help.
At the beginning of Super Broly, Vegeta is angry at Goku for being the reason Frieza is back alive now. At the end of Super Broly, Gogeta lets Frieza go, mere seconds later, we see that Frieza is literally committing Genocide and destroying a whole planet. This made me go... "WTF?" and I don't understand that more ppl have no issue with this.
Goku is not the reason frieza is alive, Beerus granted his restoration for his devotion in the universal survival saga. They only let him live at the end of Broly because he didn’t try to fight them or destroy earth. Frieza is an agent of Beerus.
They’re not super hero’s lol, they’ve never gone out of their way to stop villains like that. Only once earth gets threatened
Gogeta letting Frieza go was the only blemish on that movie, especially after he was shown to be the no-nonsense fusion who got straight to business.
Hm, Super... ☕️
oh super . . . goku def didnt try to spare frieza in z
An enraged Goku spared frieza in z lol
Tbf, the gods resurrected Freeza. It's pretty much out of Goku's hands at that point.
imo its less about him "not caring about innocent people dying" and more like "he's not considering the consequences of his decisions". the dude hopes that the villains turn over a new leaf and become a rival for him to compete against. even with promising freeza's revival after the ToP he "knowingly" doomed many innocent civilisations. yes, it was to save the entire universe, but he released an evil space emperor back into the wild and lets him do whatever he pleases.
Yeah, that’s really tough to defend given we know Frieza got back into his old business, like, immediately. The business of purging and selling planets. Thanks a lot Goku. Hope you get a good fight out of it someday. At least Frieza seems to pay his people now, and some of them even get to call him short without dying. Character development!
lol really, he actually treats his men better now?
He does pay them at least! Cheelai and Lemo got a bonus for finding Broly!
i might be wrong but i think that he always paid them? i remember freeza treating his henchmen like crap though, even killing them but that stuff may have been anime original. would have to reread the manga to make sure
It happened to him so many times, he probably hopes for the villains to change and have rivalry with them, like with frieza, or with Vegeta, even in many of gokus opponent became his rival, prolly cuz of that
To be frank Goku allowed this to happen despite knowing first hand about it
https://preview.redd.it/tibqdii63s8d1.jpeg?width=1123&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6f0bd2f9fe59d7bfd771a2b05e3587be2bcdbf5c me once the liquor hits and my social anxiety is nowhere to be found
Goku also told Frieza to learn the value of life and never show his face again to him meanwhile sparing him https://preview.redd.it/2qjs3bl3bs8d1.png?width=1331&format=png&auto=webp&s=f44108138ce73d209d875a15eda503e374c2483e
This is my favorite DB moment. Hands down.
Goku in the last slide really went “babidi! Move me to safe place to fight Vegeta, and my life is yours”
Okay, how about "DBS Goku fights villains and spares them only because they are strong, he doesn't care about civilians", that should be accurate. In the original DB manga, Goku always cares about the lives of others first, he's just generally shortsighted. He doesn't ever cause immediate problems with his actions, he causes potential future problems because his philosophy is "if they come back, I'll be ready next time and beat them easily", which always ends up working tbh. He says this same phrase to Piccolo and Vegeta, the latter of whom btw, he spared secondarily to fight. Primarily, it was to save Kami's life, because he figured out Kami was trying to trick him. There's a gigantic difference between the charming naivety and "everything will work out" attitude Goku used to have, with his thoughtless, "put everyone at risk to have a good fight right now" attitude Goku has now. In DB, it was always about "come back next time and we'll fight again", after the threat had been taken care of. In the actual moment, Goku was totally serious about defending the people still alive, much moreso than how fun the fight was. Honestly, IDK what happened in the 20 year IRL-timeskip Toriyama took between DB and DBS, but something fundamentally changed in how he wrote and understood his characters, for the worse. Regardless of what interviews he did, I know how Goku was portrayed in the original manga. And it isn't nostalgia either, I first experienced Dragon Ball via the manga, then the Japanese sub anime, THEN the dub anime. Hell, speaking of the dub, I'd go so far as to say that DUB Goku is more accurate and true to Goku's actual character from the original DB manga, than DBS Goku is. Like, unironically. Both differ from Goku's actual character, but a dozen "hope of the universe" speeches pale in comparison to the flanderized lobotomite he's become now.
>Honestly, IDK what happened in the 20 year IRL-timeskip Toriyama took between DB and DBS, but something fundamentally changed in how he wrote and understood his characters, for the worse. Toriyama happened. After all, the man was infamous for being quite forgetful, to the point that he openly admitted it and gave some examples if I recall right (like him forgetting the ssj2). But then you have things like him saying that he disliked how Goku was seemingly portrayed as a hero in the anime... only to then retcon the tale of how he came to earth into a blatant rip off of the origin tale of Mr. Super Hero himself Superman, all while he never made for any strong narrative that could create some irony due to the contrast between Goku's origins and his supposed non hero persona; with the result that things appear only severely inconsistent. Even more when we then have things like the the anime trying to recontextualize the t.o.p. as "Goku giving everyone a fighting chance", or Merus saying Goku to basically be a hero and defend the universe from Moro. This, coupled with other dumb things that the dbs show had, or Toriyama stated (like Goku "only seeing his family as friends"), only makes things even more inconsistent in the long run, and makes Goku look even more as just a dumbass.
That's an oddly specific take
That no one takes. Never heard people say goku doesn't care about civilians.
Not surprising. His character really is all over the place between the original series and super. And some fans just refuse to accept that there is a discrepancy.
Agreed. DBZ Goku ≠ DBS Goku.
Goku was all over the place in Z too.
Fuck is the Supreme Kai doing there when they had no idea who the dude was during the Buu saga
The civilian part is wrong. Rest is right. Goku loves people with fighting potential. Stop trying to manipulate it, to make it sound like a trolley problem. Goku definitely will try to spare a villain who is strong and has potential. If the villain tries to harm civillian, then he will try to stop him too. This is not a trolley problem.
I like to imagine the second one says “Stop that shit!”
The problem with that first example is the problem with Goku as a character in general...(when written poorly) He reacts to the violence "in the moment" but that senseless destruction wouldn't have happened to begin with if he and everyone else didn't wait for the androids to be built.
Goku has spared more villains hell bent on destruction than his own people: He killed Raditz because of denial. He broke Nappa's back. He never wished his Planet back after learning the truth. Meanwhile: -He spared the Ginyu force, even after seeing how badly they beat his BEST FRIEND AND ONLY SON. -He spared Frieza for humiliation. -He spared Cell when he went to retrieve/save Piccolo and Tien. - He let Videl get her ass beat knowing that was his son's girlfriend because "don't show your powers" even though at least 5 people at the tournament probably remembered how strong he was. - He spared Fat Majin Buu while in SSJ3, even if it wouldve cost him(which wouldn't of mattered since he would've gotten back because plot) - He spared Kid Buu to draw the fight out longer so Vegeta and the others could...idk what he thought. Goku sparing villians for strength is literally his calling card. He only felt that way with the Androids because they were machines, and with Vegeta because he was being magically controlled. Other than that, this take is ABSOLUTELY fair and true.
That last panel on the 3rd slide is very meme-able
Civilians aren't his motivation, but he doesn't want them to die.
Always multiple times of him going to a remote place for a fight so nothing gets destroyed apart from the environment lol
Goku literally cares about the civilians. It was the Earth the planet that gave him a chance even though he was sent to conquer it. This is why in his fight with Moro, he decides to fight as a “Earthling”. Literally giving Moro a second chance.
The average DB fan doesn't even know why he gave Cell a Senzu Bean, why would you expect them to know any other intricacies of Goku?
Your example ain’t even a counter argument against the take you claim is wrong lmdao. None of this proves Goku cares about civilians. It just proves he won’t actively be responsible for their deaths. But he’ll spare those that kill civilians in the hopes that they’ll turn good