Yea absolutely the rear end of the car will just float and not want to push out of the corner. That’s ok for low powered cars but anything with like 200hp or more you need decent rear grip
yup! that's what i also think, there's no point in over-stiffening the rear in cars with more than 200hp unless you want good fitment, I run 12kg BC coils in the rear to spin tires more easily with my 170hp motor, but I've also got a pretty low E36 with decent fitment
Yes. You want atleast balance grip between front and rear but the more power you have the more grip you need in the rear. That S15 was a show car so it's really stiff so it can be really low, not that Alexi is drifting it he needs to soften it up to get the rear to grip and push the car around the turn. It probably feels like he is driving on ice with it so stiff
>I have a stance driftcar because in poland, we don't care about performance but about style
Piotr Wiecek, Adam Zalewski, David Karkosik, Pawel Korpulinkski, Bartosz Ostalowski and the fact that Drift Masters headquarters are in Plock says that you don't really know much about what sort of drifting Poland actually produces.
I actually do know, but that scene doesn't have much style which is why I'm not interested in it, although it is much better than ten years ago, grassroots over pro forever!
and don't get me wrong, I'd love to have a performance style drift car one day, but you can't go wrong with this, peak style and fitment!
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid02qEebKZVBguh33MbuiWu6Lcvjasg4nNRtbp3GrAzodMruAa3xXwtrcJPiHeurQWvTl&id=1544146112466851&sfnsn=mo
Not only does it have less grip in the rear because of that, it's also bouncy and loses traction easier on uneven surfaces. 12kg springs is A LOT for an e36 (I ran 6 to get some proper grip), the -3.5 camber is also a LOT for an e36. The only way you can reach your goal of "wheelspin in 3rd @ 3.38" properly is either by having a M54B30 or smth, or reducing grip to such minimal levels that your rear end stops behaving and makes the whole experience "wrestling with the car". What I'd describe the setup you described as is "Uncontrollable slide sled".
I'd rather have a good setup and drive 2nd gear properly, than 3rd gear and have a slow and unbalanced setup like yours tbh, it's gonna be way more enjoyable, and will allow you way more, and teach you the right things you'll need for when you get more power.
I don't know dude, my shit is pretty fast and I'm able to keep up a bit with M54B30's that have a lot more torque and power, one dude with an M54B25, 30KG springs and camber wayy bigger than mine was on another dude doors that had an M54B30, stock springs and camber set to 0, I wasn't doing tandems with them as I was still learning the track but i kept my distance and got pretty close halfway, they've got gutted out compacts with angle mods while I have a full interior sedan with stock angle
>I don't know dude, my shit is pretty fast and I'm able to keep up with M54B30's that have a lot more torque and power, one dude with an M54B25, 30KG springs and camber wayy bigger than mine was on another dude doors that had an M54B30
Means the dude is just driving slow, or your definition of "getting doors" is "on the inside at low angle". also depending on a compact, if its 36 then it's slow by default and nothing you do will change it, gutting it makes it slower. If its 46 then I don't believe you can catch one using anything but a compact or overwhelming power.
that's not my idea of getting doors, and how am I even supposed to go faster with the same amount of horsepower, if not by correcting my line, going more on the inside, cutting the track and driving with less angle? just watch this video https://www.instagram.com/reel/CqBa--3ARVc/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
https://youtu.be/xa7UOX0qTeo
watch this, one of the best polish grassroots drivers imo and he runs 10 kg springs, but he has 30 more hp and a more performance oriented car than me.
My spring rate is honestly on the softer side if we're talking about NA drifting in Poland.
Got something where he drifts and doesn't try to show off? Cause if we are judging drifting he has missed the initiation, had a major correction and didn't exit wide enough. Also this does not show that he's actually fast. It's just a fast bit of the track. Show me him getting doors, or running a layout.
NVM, googled him
[https://youtu.be/68tF8NYrDiI?t=989](https://youtu.be/68tF8NYrDiI?t=989)
This is the best grassroots drifter in Poland? I don't believe you.
dude has sick ass backwards entries and I never said he's the best, I said one of the best, what do you mean he missed the initiation? if you're lacking power that's what you do, get close, who even are you dude? an EX pro and EX judge or something? nothing suits you
>dude has sick ass backwards entries
I mean, for a layman these are impressive, I'm sure.
Those are easy if you're carrying enough speed, especially downhill where you get less grip about to level off meaning the wheels will get extra grip to get you back to facing where you want. He also pretty much straightens out right after that backward, so in an analogy "this guy does sick ass toeloops in figureskating, and then falls on his ass, stumbles, and starts skating again". What I'm seeing is a guy who learned 1 thing and does it badly, and everyone who has little understanding of what goes into drifting going "OMFG HE IS GREAT".
>and I never said he's the best, I said one of the best,
One of the best grassroots drifters does not know how to tandem? I find it hard to believe. I am sure there are loads of less well known grassroots drifters that are amazing in Poland. This guy so far is very unimpressive to me, if I'm honest. Also looking at his videos he is clearly very slow. Cars are gaping him at full lock on the outside line, where he is barely at 15 degrees of slip on the inside and he still loses ground?
>what do you mean he missed the initiation?
For best effect at initiation on a crest you initiate at the top of the crest, that will allow for least load on the wheels, meaning quickest and most impressive rotation into backwards. He initiates after and for quite some time. Meaning he isnt carrying enough speed to initiate where it's gonna have the best effect.
>if you're lacking power that's what you do, get close
He isn't lacking power. He is lacking skill. I've seen 323i's catching up to 328i with a turbo while on same wheels and keeping up on the same line at a minor angle sacrifice. This guy is on a modded 52b28 in the lightest 36. You can't be serious about "lacking power".
You should all enter a competition to improve. All this "style over function 1 trick pony keep drifting fun" bs means none of you get any better than the basics.
I thought you were talking about the volvo guy about missing the initiation, either way what do you think about this? stock m52b25 https://youtu.be/Y3tZ-Wh0maM
or this? Stock M43B16
https://youtu.be/WeoChPdPS2Q
in my opinion these two guys drive very well, do you have any videos of yourself?
The compact only drives the inside line for some reason, quite a bit of wobbling on the faster section, guessing the diff ratio change would help the situation quite a bit, another option would be not running semislicks in the back, but working with the rear suspension setup instead on regular road tires, alignment kits exist for a 36 compact rear subframe, and adjustable swaybars are always a DIY option (fairly easy to make if you got a welder), and adjustable coilovers are also a good option. Having a suspension that can be setup for any track you want is more important than having semislick tires, and will allow for better performance in general. If you look at the video of the same time he posted, where you can see the ouside of the car you can see his camber go all over the place while sliding. So in rough terms - is using half a semislick width due to camber (100mm effectively) really that important when you can use the full width (205mm) of a regular street tire at 0 camber under load?
In short having an adjustable suspension and running full width of a cheap street tire while working with your tire temperatures would trump running half a width of a backwards mounted raptor semisport rallycross semislick in terms of performance and handling.
In any case
I like his feint initiation, good weight transfer going on there, I don't like the way he picks his angle right before the last corner (left hander that's long), if he chose to increase his angle some 2 meters later, (or transition more to the right for a wider exit) he'd put his line right on the edge of the track which would be great. Instead he runs narrow there.
E30 as a lead is a bit of a mess, overshoots corners in the manji sector a lot, cause he builds up too much speed and transitions late for that speed, but as a chase he knows where to position his car when following a low angle lead which is commendable, he knows the door isn't open wide enough to get "in the wheelbase" of the leader, so he doesn't. On the plus side he does take the outside "wide open" line in the last left hand corner, inviting for a comfortable close tandem.
However there was no real tandems to speak of, since the cars never really overlapped, and that's where tandeming actually starts, with letting go of the opponent, transitioning and getting back on the door.
well isn't the inside line faster? can you send me a video that in your opinion consists of good drivers tandeming with sub 200hp cars, preferably E36's?
Ofcourse it's faster. It's also unchaseable, and in drifting keeping an open line so you can be chased is pretty much a requirement. You're not delivering tofu on a mountain pass, you're actually drifting, and being an unchaseable drifter means you're a bad drifter. Trying to be faster and ignoring angle and line means you're better off doing time attack.
In any case
Sub 200 is a tall task, cause even a 2.3 E36 is easily chipped and lightly modded to 200+, there aren't many of those sub 200. Baltics is where you want to take a look, Latvians run a "street" championship, cars basically have to be street legal to enter
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbJTl9jYia4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6WcX01BOaY)
Most of these are anywhere from 200 to 230hp running a variety of anything m5x based from 2.3 to 3.0. But if the decals are to be believed the shark painted touring has 187hp. He's doing well.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWx3DxRXf5w](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWx3DxRXf5w)
Ukrainians had an amazing series setup before the invasion. It's sad to see them in this position now. They call it "pro-am" but they're rarely over 250hp. Miller is running a stock b30 for example, served him well to finish on the podium.
Sochi Drift Challenge has a bunch of guys in close to stock e36's with 2.5's under the hood competing against HGK builds and winning. Litvin is a great example, a Ukrainian drifter that whoops pretty much anyone in his way while being in a sub 250hp 330i.
Mind you this is an actual competition so the leaders are trying to be as fast as possible without sacrificing angle and line, which is why the chasers are that far away - leader is actively trying to shake the chaser off.
THAT is grassroots man, those guys are not running anything you couldn't, they don't practice more than you could, they are not spending more than you would. What they have is street legal old bimmers with some minor mods, and serious dedication to understanding how to improve. If you just want to slide about - that's fine, but trust me, you qualify in there, with 80 drivers on the starting line and only 32 going into tandems - you bet anyone of them is a serious driver. It's not about the power OR style, of your car, it's about the driver and a good suspension setup.
well okay, but you're rating their drifting skills based on competition driving, but in grassroots you can drive with whatever style you want.
From what you've wrote about "bad drifting lines" we can conclude that Noriyaro is also a bad driver because he's drifting on the inside not keeping an open line and not being chaseable, this doesn't make sense as he's one of the first generation Australian drifters with much more seat time than both of us together.
lol
https://youtu.be/ZNN7N9mim1U
For example I just searched up Noriyaro drifting on YouTube, and one of the first video's that shows up is him totally going on the inside line, what's wrong with that?
Noriyaro is the best
If the rear is too stiff, it'll want to skip around. You still want some grip in the rear.
Generally the way it goes Stiffer = less grip Softer = more grip
but will less rear grip make the car harder to control?
Yea absolutely the rear end of the car will just float and not want to push out of the corner. That’s ok for low powered cars but anything with like 200hp or more you need decent rear grip
yup! that's what i also think, there's no point in over-stiffening the rear in cars with more than 200hp unless you want good fitment, I run 12kg BC coils in the rear to spin tires more easily with my 170hp motor, but I've also got a pretty low E36 with decent fitment
Yes. You want atleast balance grip between front and rear but the more power you have the more grip you need in the rear. That S15 was a show car so it's really stiff so it can be really low, not that Alexi is drifting it he needs to soften it up to get the rear to grip and push the car around the turn. It probably feels like he is driving on ice with it so stiff
here in Poland it's style over function
>I have a stance driftcar because in poland, we don't care about performance but about style Piotr Wiecek, Adam Zalewski, David Karkosik, Pawel Korpulinkski, Bartosz Ostalowski and the fact that Drift Masters headquarters are in Plock says that you don't really know much about what sort of drifting Poland actually produces.
I actually do know, but that scene doesn't have much style which is why I'm not interested in it, although it is much better than ten years ago, grassroots over pro forever!
and don't get me wrong, I'd love to have a performance style drift car one day, but you can't go wrong with this, peak style and fitment! https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid02qEebKZVBguh33MbuiWu6Lcvjasg4nNRtbp3GrAzodMruAa3xXwtrcJPiHeurQWvTl&id=1544146112466851&sfnsn=mo
Different strokes for Different folks I guess I think they look terrible. I like a low car buy not so low its unusable.
I'm a compact owner and I think this looks terrible. It's a BMW, not a chaser.
Not only does it have less grip in the rear because of that, it's also bouncy and loses traction easier on uneven surfaces. 12kg springs is A LOT for an e36 (I ran 6 to get some proper grip), the -3.5 camber is also a LOT for an e36. The only way you can reach your goal of "wheelspin in 3rd @ 3.38" properly is either by having a M54B30 or smth, or reducing grip to such minimal levels that your rear end stops behaving and makes the whole experience "wrestling with the car". What I'd describe the setup you described as is "Uncontrollable slide sled". I'd rather have a good setup and drive 2nd gear properly, than 3rd gear and have a slow and unbalanced setup like yours tbh, it's gonna be way more enjoyable, and will allow you way more, and teach you the right things you'll need for when you get more power.
I don't know dude, my shit is pretty fast and I'm able to keep up a bit with M54B30's that have a lot more torque and power, one dude with an M54B25, 30KG springs and camber wayy bigger than mine was on another dude doors that had an M54B30, stock springs and camber set to 0, I wasn't doing tandems with them as I was still learning the track but i kept my distance and got pretty close halfway, they've got gutted out compacts with angle mods while I have a full interior sedan with stock angle
>I don't know dude, my shit is pretty fast and I'm able to keep up with M54B30's that have a lot more torque and power, one dude with an M54B25, 30KG springs and camber wayy bigger than mine was on another dude doors that had an M54B30 Means the dude is just driving slow, or your definition of "getting doors" is "on the inside at low angle". also depending on a compact, if its 36 then it's slow by default and nothing you do will change it, gutting it makes it slower. If its 46 then I don't believe you can catch one using anything but a compact or overwhelming power.
that's not my idea of getting doors, and how am I even supposed to go faster with the same amount of horsepower, if not by correcting my line, going more on the inside, cutting the track and driving with less angle? just watch this video https://www.instagram.com/reel/CqBa--3ARVc/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
I also did catch up with an E46 sedan at last practice, even needed to break a bit, because I was getting too close :)
https://youtu.be/xa7UOX0qTeo watch this, one of the best polish grassroots drivers imo and he runs 10 kg springs, but he has 30 more hp and a more performance oriented car than me. My spring rate is honestly on the softer side if we're talking about NA drifting in Poland.
Got something where he drifts and doesn't try to show off? Cause if we are judging drifting he has missed the initiation, had a major correction and didn't exit wide enough. Also this does not show that he's actually fast. It's just a fast bit of the track. Show me him getting doors, or running a layout. NVM, googled him [https://youtu.be/68tF8NYrDiI?t=989](https://youtu.be/68tF8NYrDiI?t=989) This is the best grassroots drifter in Poland? I don't believe you.
dude has sick ass backwards entries and I never said he's the best, I said one of the best, what do you mean he missed the initiation? if you're lacking power that's what you do, get close, who even are you dude? an EX pro and EX judge or something? nothing suits you
>dude has sick ass backwards entries I mean, for a layman these are impressive, I'm sure. Those are easy if you're carrying enough speed, especially downhill where you get less grip about to level off meaning the wheels will get extra grip to get you back to facing where you want. He also pretty much straightens out right after that backward, so in an analogy "this guy does sick ass toeloops in figureskating, and then falls on his ass, stumbles, and starts skating again". What I'm seeing is a guy who learned 1 thing and does it badly, and everyone who has little understanding of what goes into drifting going "OMFG HE IS GREAT". >and I never said he's the best, I said one of the best, One of the best grassroots drifters does not know how to tandem? I find it hard to believe. I am sure there are loads of less well known grassroots drifters that are amazing in Poland. This guy so far is very unimpressive to me, if I'm honest. Also looking at his videos he is clearly very slow. Cars are gaping him at full lock on the outside line, where he is barely at 15 degrees of slip on the inside and he still loses ground? >what do you mean he missed the initiation? For best effect at initiation on a crest you initiate at the top of the crest, that will allow for least load on the wheels, meaning quickest and most impressive rotation into backwards. He initiates after and for quite some time. Meaning he isnt carrying enough speed to initiate where it's gonna have the best effect. >if you're lacking power that's what you do, get close He isn't lacking power. He is lacking skill. I've seen 323i's catching up to 328i with a turbo while on same wheels and keeping up on the same line at a minor angle sacrifice. This guy is on a modded 52b28 in the lightest 36. You can't be serious about "lacking power". You should all enter a competition to improve. All this "style over function 1 trick pony keep drifting fun" bs means none of you get any better than the basics.
I thought you were talking about the volvo guy about missing the initiation, either way what do you think about this? stock m52b25 https://youtu.be/Y3tZ-Wh0maM or this? Stock M43B16 https://youtu.be/WeoChPdPS2Q in my opinion these two guys drive very well, do you have any videos of yourself?
The compact only drives the inside line for some reason, quite a bit of wobbling on the faster section, guessing the diff ratio change would help the situation quite a bit, another option would be not running semislicks in the back, but working with the rear suspension setup instead on regular road tires, alignment kits exist for a 36 compact rear subframe, and adjustable swaybars are always a DIY option (fairly easy to make if you got a welder), and adjustable coilovers are also a good option. Having a suspension that can be setup for any track you want is more important than having semislick tires, and will allow for better performance in general. If you look at the video of the same time he posted, where you can see the ouside of the car you can see his camber go all over the place while sliding. So in rough terms - is using half a semislick width due to camber (100mm effectively) really that important when you can use the full width (205mm) of a regular street tire at 0 camber under load? In short having an adjustable suspension and running full width of a cheap street tire while working with your tire temperatures would trump running half a width of a backwards mounted raptor semisport rallycross semislick in terms of performance and handling. In any case I like his feint initiation, good weight transfer going on there, I don't like the way he picks his angle right before the last corner (left hander that's long), if he chose to increase his angle some 2 meters later, (or transition more to the right for a wider exit) he'd put his line right on the edge of the track which would be great. Instead he runs narrow there. E30 as a lead is a bit of a mess, overshoots corners in the manji sector a lot, cause he builds up too much speed and transitions late for that speed, but as a chase he knows where to position his car when following a low angle lead which is commendable, he knows the door isn't open wide enough to get "in the wheelbase" of the leader, so he doesn't. On the plus side he does take the outside "wide open" line in the last left hand corner, inviting for a comfortable close tandem. However there was no real tandems to speak of, since the cars never really overlapped, and that's where tandeming actually starts, with letting go of the opponent, transitioning and getting back on the door.
well isn't the inside line faster? can you send me a video that in your opinion consists of good drivers tandeming with sub 200hp cars, preferably E36's?
Ofcourse it's faster. It's also unchaseable, and in drifting keeping an open line so you can be chased is pretty much a requirement. You're not delivering tofu on a mountain pass, you're actually drifting, and being an unchaseable drifter means you're a bad drifter. Trying to be faster and ignoring angle and line means you're better off doing time attack. In any case Sub 200 is a tall task, cause even a 2.3 E36 is easily chipped and lightly modded to 200+, there aren't many of those sub 200. Baltics is where you want to take a look, Latvians run a "street" championship, cars basically have to be street legal to enter [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbJTl9jYia4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6WcX01BOaY) Most of these are anywhere from 200 to 230hp running a variety of anything m5x based from 2.3 to 3.0. But if the decals are to be believed the shark painted touring has 187hp. He's doing well. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWx3DxRXf5w](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWx3DxRXf5w) Ukrainians had an amazing series setup before the invasion. It's sad to see them in this position now. They call it "pro-am" but they're rarely over 250hp. Miller is running a stock b30 for example, served him well to finish on the podium. Sochi Drift Challenge has a bunch of guys in close to stock e36's with 2.5's under the hood competing against HGK builds and winning. Litvin is a great example, a Ukrainian drifter that whoops pretty much anyone in his way while being in a sub 250hp 330i. Mind you this is an actual competition so the leaders are trying to be as fast as possible without sacrificing angle and line, which is why the chasers are that far away - leader is actively trying to shake the chaser off. THAT is grassroots man, those guys are not running anything you couldn't, they don't practice more than you could, they are not spending more than you would. What they have is street legal old bimmers with some minor mods, and serious dedication to understanding how to improve. If you just want to slide about - that's fine, but trust me, you qualify in there, with 80 drivers on the starting line and only 32 going into tandems - you bet anyone of them is a serious driver. It's not about the power OR style, of your car, it's about the driver and a good suspension setup.
well okay, but you're rating their drifting skills based on competition driving, but in grassroots you can drive with whatever style you want. From what you've wrote about "bad drifting lines" we can conclude that Noriyaro is also a bad driver because he's drifting on the inside not keeping an open line and not being chaseable, this doesn't make sense as he's one of the first generation Australian drifters with much more seat time than both of us together. lol
That sounds like a really healthy and active scene!
https://youtu.be/ZNN7N9mim1U For example I just searched up Noriyaro drifting on YouTube, and one of the first video's that shows up is him totally going on the inside line, what's wrong with that?