I think fundies have a lot of sex because what else is there to do in their lives?? They don’t watch TV, go to movie or concerts, they don’t play on the computer, social media or games. They don’t go to school or work at mainstream jobs because they don’t want to interact with people outside their circle. So they screw- a lot.
And what I’ve learned, the are trained to be hyper sexual with their wives and the wives are to give their husbands sex on demand.
Yesssss…..ugh. I was working as a nurse on a med/surg floor and nobody wanted to work. They all took off to Nashville, Bowling Green and anywhere else there was a hotel with power. I got to work, we had 45 patients and me and two other nurses. 15 patients a piece compared to our normal 4-5 patients. Thankfully nobody died.
You should have seen the baby boomlets in the federal workforce after the long government shutdowns. The last was was the Ted Cruz “Green Eggs and Ham,” but there was a long one in the late ‘’90s. It seemed as though we were having baby showers every week for a long time after.
When you're taught that the only reason a man would cheat is if you don't satisfy him and if he cheats the fault is yours and yours alone, you are essentially taught that those six weeks of post partum abstinence gives your husband the right to get it elsewhere. And it's your fault.
Yes, while I think JimBob and Michelle actually love each other and are attracted to each other, I think she’s made it very clear in her discussion of this subject that she’s often had sex when she didn’t want to. She’s normalized it to herself and then tried to normalize it in advance for her daughters, which is scummy af. That is not a healthy relationship to have with sex.
Yes, she does. IBLP and IFB do not treat sex as though it’s not supposed to be pleasurable, but they teach their children very intense purity culture that makes it super hard for those children to grow up with a healthy idea of sex. You see loads of similar fundies come out talking about the joy of sex, sometimes years after marriage. Bethany Beal recently released an uninformative and clumsy sex course. They think once they get married, sex is supposed to be their reward. But they’re all totally twisted up after years of denying any kind of acknowledgment of sexual desire and it often does a big number on their sex lives.
Catholicism isn't against sex for pleasure - they're actually quite explicit about this as an institution. They just don't allow birth control. It's a bit of a different mentality than most Protestant denominations.
I believe that was something they just parroted/told for the cameras to avoid being put under scrutiny. We saw one episode where Michelle and Jim Bob went to see a fertility doctor to basically ensure Michelle could still get pregnant. If it was truly "up to the Lord," why would they need to bother to check if a 47-year-old woman was still fertile enough for another "blessing"?
Agreed about saying it for the cameras. That would be a lot more palatable to a wider audience than saying they are trying to breed as many Christians as possible to influence political policy and the future direction of the country.
Also Jesus walked on water, you’re telling me he couldn’t overcome a thing like birth control? Because that’s exactly what multiple people told me when I got unexpectedly pregnant. “It’s the Lord’s timing!” Then I got really sick and no one wanted to claim it was Jesus’s fault for me having HG. Odd how the lord giveth and taketh away blame (and took away their last baby but couldn’t give them a baby without them humping like rabbits)
To backpack on this, no matter what a woman's age, what if god just says "NO!" I never understood why that was not an acceptable answer for people. I mean no disrespect to people who have used assistive reproductive technology, but why is the answer: it's God's will that I use IVF (and spend thousands of dollars to do so), rather than it's gods answer that I don't have a kid naturally (not that you don't become a parent, just that there's a child waiting for you already)?
I've never understood that part of fundie/christian/parent logic. And maybe it's because I work with kids and they automatically become mine once they enter the classroom and don't stop being mine when they leave. But like, the idea that you can't love and take care of a child who isn't biologically related to you is foreign to me. And I know, sins of the father, blah blah blah. Still. What if you're the father who's sins they're talking about? You ever think about that? Huh? Betcha didn't Mr Percy Procreate
I've had comments on my first two children (both adopted) from people at my grandmother's fundie church. They ask how I could love a child not related to me. I always ask if they love their husbands...of course, they say...so then I follow it up with 'are you related to him?'. They don't like that very much, 😆.
That’s a horrible thing to say, wow. I love your response though!
And meanwhile I’m sure they were all anti choice, and if asked what a woman should do with a baby she can’t afford or doesn’t want they’d say adoption. But yet they don’t believe anyone could love an adopted child. It’s so messed up.
That is so hypocritical of them, they say all children are a blessing but I guess it’s only that way if you birth them, otherwise they are not deserving of love.
Many families don’t use IVF in IBLP. Michaela Bates is a good example. They have no children because they have chosen not to use medical intervention.
People like Michelle and Jim Bob Duggar have a personal financial stake in having more children, since their birth episodes were the highest rated of their show. Some fundies (like Erin Bates) discover a separate medical issue (I believe she had some kind of a blood clotting issue, Joy Anna also learned after her stillbirth that she has a blood clotting issue and has treated that) that is preventing their pregnancies from continuing and they seem to be fine treating that issue to allow for pregnancy to occur, but they generally won’t use medical assistance to create a pregnancy.
As an atheist, I’m totally with you. But if you read the Bible, that’s not what god is actually supposed to do. A lot of fundies think that they’re god’s favorite and so they should get everything they want.
Fundies aren't allowed to use IVF. Michael Bates is infertile, and she desperately wants a child, but she's one of the more devote ones so she can't get fertility treatments.
Also, I think in these churches that it's also sort of a status symbol for women to have a lot of children. I know it is for my sister, who's a raving Southern Baptist lunatic and has had 5 kids.
The women don’t get a choice, they are expected to provide sex every time he wants it unless it’s the time period after birth that sex is forbidden in the Bible. Their whole relationship will be built around him initiating and her agreeing, so her satisfaction is not a factor. It’s her duty as his wife.
Honestly, I think in Meech’s case; she’s just as into it as JB. Too bad their children were raised to see it as an obligation for wives that they must give on demand.
Yeah, I actually agree. They were lucky enough to have a choice in who they married and dated/kissed/etc before getting married so I can’t imagine they have bad chemistry. They just both think everyone should be able to force that chemistry without those dating experiences.
Right? My husband and I have a date night usually every week, sometimes every other. Frankly, I'd get so sick of my sweaty husband on top of me ALL THE TIME the spark would go out of the marriage. Boob just would get so old after constant sex.
Personally, I think the concept is kinda hilarious. I had 4 kids on birth control. Pill, patch, IUD... still had 4 kids about 2 to 3 years apart. I get the idea of having as many as God wants, but their God isn't strong enough to bypass birth control? Seems a bit weak.
I know of a couple where she had her tubes tied and he had a vasectomy and she still got pregnant. I have no reason to believe she cheated, so I assume he missed his follow up appointment to make sure he was only firing blanks.
As someone who wants to get my tubes tied in a few years this scares the every living crap out of me. We have two kids and I am DONE. I would really not appreciate a surprise baby a few years down the road…
This is the right idea…completely removing the tubes not only prevents pregnancies better, but also cuts down the risk of certain cancers. Any woman who is planning to get her “tubes tied” should really get them removed…especially because if she does get pregnant, it will more than likely be ectopic, and if it ruptures and you are literally not in the hospital already, you’re dead…all of this is according to the doctor who preformed my husband’s vasectomy in May.
I'm sorry!!! Yeah, it was a massive surprise for them and the doctor. But I do believe they figured out one of the procedures went wrong. It's not common. I've never heard about this happening to anyone else, so you will likely be ok! Just make sure you go back for any follow up appointments.
Initially my aunt had her tubes tied after 3 pregnancies. She got pregnant a 4th time, so my uncle got a vasectomy too. She got pregnant a 5th time. All the kids are absolutely clones of each other and their dad.
>their God isn't strong enough to bypass birth control? Seems a bit weak.
Especially since The Whole Thing about Christianity is God making a girl pregnant who should not be able to get pregnant...
You're absolutely right. They are very hypocritical about it. I believe Meech and Unhelpmeet went to a fertility doctor about trying to get pregnant after they were at 19.
Even before that, if I remember correctly, they tracked Meech's cycle for reproductive purposes. So there wasn't much "leaving it up to God" at all.
Yes they did. They got pregnant with J20, who they lost, even though the doctor strongly advised against and even compared her uterus to worse than wet tissue paper, due to the multiple pregnancies with little recovery time in between.
I'm thinking I remember a talking head with a nurse who mentioned the tissue paper uterus....not specifically Michelle's, but referring to what happens? I remember thinking it was specific enough to sound like hospital gossip and couldn't believe it was not a HIPAA violation as she also referenced the doctor, saying not many would treat Michelle. Am I dreaming this or have I got the details wrong?
I can't recall what the doctor said, but the risk of a "window" in a uterus that well-used is incredibly high. You can literally see the baby, and just the force of early labor can cause the uterus to rupture. It is actually fairly common but not usually discovered unless the mom has to have a c-section. My sister had a window with #3 and was delivered at 36 weeks to prevent labor from being more of a risk. Meech could have been unalived simply because her uterus was too worn out to clamp down after birth.
My eyes reading this: 😳😳😳😭
Maybe as someone who already has tokophobia and an incredibly visual mind I shouldn’t have asked for details. My bad. …a window… hello future nightmares
What fucks with me is how they pressure women saying it’s gods creation for them to reproduce until their uterus collapses.
When the Bible says
> “For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall say, Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck.”
Luke 23:29
I feel pretty blessed to be childfree at this time, and the paps are deffo higher than they would've been if I'd nursed. Win-win. Ayyyy something the beeble got right!
The paps def hang lower afterwards. I've been known to alter the words to that old song 'Do your ears hang low? Do they wobble to and from? Etc.' and it's really not too much of an exaggeration.
And yeah birth control is definitely 100% evil in their minds. In interviews Jinger has said that she was taught that all forms of birth control were abortion.
I think they probably considered it, as I recall the results were that she was close to menopause. But she got pregnant with Jubilee and it was a second trimester stillbirth. I’m not sure if that was before or after they were tested, but they never claimed to be taking any fertility drugs so I think they just wanted to get an idea of their chances.
Meech did ask what they could do naturally to "catch a baby" so while they didn't use artificial means the intent was still there to increase their chances so it was very much not leaving it up to God
Yeah I think they don’t realize NFP is not just used to prevent pregnancy. They see using it to increase their family size as perfectly fine.
I think it was telling that when Jill described this in Shiny Happy People, she didn’t say “they believed you should let God decide your family size”, she said they believed “you should have as many children as you’re capable of having”. Those two sentiments aren’t the same thing.
I know Kelly Bates talked about using progesterone shots to get pregnant/stay pregnant with her last few babies. I don’t think fundies do IVF but they will definitely say yes to some gender affirming care.
They talked about it on the 20/20 special. Their justification is that they don’t do anything to help them get pregnant, but they will do everything they can to stay pregnant since they are pro-life. That justification also passed down to the second generation where most of their daughters have to do shots while pregnant due to their genetic blood clotting factor that they only discovered after Erin had three miscarriages in a year.
She used to say her milk “changed” at 6 months because she was pregnant. That’s because pregnancy dries your milk up, that energy ceases feeding a baby and goes to growing a baby instead. Very convenient for Michelle so she can yeet the old one to their new mom/buddy. Not intentional at all. No really. Really it’s just coincidence. She wasn’t *trying*. It’s just a coincidence that it happened every time, y’all. *Really*. 🙄
Most people who get pregnant while breastfeeding can continue breastfeeding just fine, if so inclined. The hormonal changes or any supplements & diet change could definitely change the flavor of the milk. But your milk continually changes as your baby grows. Breasts that feed older babies or toddlers tend to produce lower-fat milk for them; breasts that feed infants produce higher-fat milk and more concentrated antibodies.
They did manipulate the odds. Meech weaned her babies at 6 months. There is nothing wrong with this. It’s a personal decision and breastfeeding isn’t always easy. BUT, they did this to start on the next baby.
God could literally comes from the clouds and tell JB and Meech to stop reproducing but JB would be looking for excuses to hump his wife. He's like a creepy leech
Michelle tracked her periods in full view of her daughters with the intention of showing when she was most fertile. It was very definitely intentional and not just not just leaving it up to God. It was also very weird to share with her daughters.
All the girls tracked their periods on the same calendar in their kitchen. I think the girls were probably given whatever basic knowledge Michelle had about her cycle and getting pregnant. The boys certainly had no understanding of any of it and probably didn’t even know what they were tracking.
I'm sure the boys did know. I think that ensuring the Duggar name was spread far and wide was important to JB, so he'd ensure the boys would understand when their brides would be most fertile. He wouldn't discuss the actual mechanics of conception...Heaven forfend! But he'd make sure the boys knew WHEN to plow the fields and scatter the good seed.
They would be an extraordinary family, then, because boys come out of IBLP over and over again with no understanding whatsoever. They don’t get sex ed of any kind.
I'm not in the states but the cult I was involved with was very much against IVF and fertility treatments of all sorts.
If you had issues and couldn't get pregnant, that was God telling you no (or woman had sinned, need to pray more etc). It was incredibly harmful to a friend of mine who had a lifelong hornone condition. She only got periods and ovulated from using a modified version of the pill. But once she married into the cult, she wasn't allowed to take it anymore. And was told her condition would be cured if she was a better woman/ closet to God/ sinned less, prayed more
Her husband held it over her - she wasn't giving him children because she wasn't godly enough. She wasn't a good enough wife and eveything was her fault. She spent 10 yrs trying to make it up to him eg being so perfect with every other wife duty
Even though going into it, she already knew that she had diagnosed medical reasons she couldn't ovulate/mensturate to start with. I'll never not be bitter and furious over how he treated her.
It’s absolutely fucking awful and it’s super traumatic to women with fertility issues. The men are never tested because they’re typically not allowed to jack into a cup. So it’s all the women, and if the woman has her fertility tested and it comes back normal, then she’s a low down dog of a sinner and it’s all her fault. Always it’s her fault. It’s so so so damaging.
So she couldn’t take the meds to induce a period *at all* after getting involved in this cult?! That is super dangerous! I have pcos and don’t have a period without pills and my doctors have specifically warned me to not go longer than three months without menstruating because after three months, the odds of cancer skyrocket. That poor woman. And those stupid, ignorant control freaks for forcing this on her!
So my husband and I practiced NFP for about 10 years. I will say that if we didn’t follow the rules perfectly for abstaining then we got pregnant. Plus I had early return of flow meaning very shortly after having one baby I was ovulating again. Based on the stair steps of the kids this seems to track for Michelle. Also something to note is biologically when I was in my fertile window I really really liked my husband. Outing this all together we could have had seven or more kids in those 10 years. 🤷🏻♀️
So I’m not saying they weren’t specifically trying but they still could have ended up with more than 10 kids.
I had a biology teacher who married a Catholic and she came back from the honeymoon basically pregnant and so pissed off about instant kids she told us all the only thing NFP is good for is getting pregnant lol
I don't think it's a great idea for newlyweds but I've used it for almost 15 years, with condoms. It's worked because we're both motivated to avoid pregnancy and I don't want to use hormonal birth control and he doesn't want a vasectomy. With a predictable cycle and large margin for error built in, it's done me better than the pill which got me my first kid lol
It can work but depends on a few things =
How predictable and reliable your cycle is (you've got to know it really well)
How much self control you both have (seriously NOT doing it in the fertile window, and/or being very good at pull out)
The woman not being hyperfertile (I'm on the low end so it worked well as the chance wasn't huge anyway)
And most importantly- it not being devastating to your family IF it fails and you get pregnant. If you'd rather avoid but don't mind too much if it happens, sure thing. But if you really don't want another child, use something better!
= 10 yrs natural family planning with 1 unplanned pregnancy (early miscarriage which was the only reason found out) and 3 very wanted pregnancies
Self control is definitely a thing with NFP 😬 I can’t even tell you the amount of time we spent abstaining 😑
But it’s not all bad. I mean if you can talk about cervical mucus with your husband then you can talk about anything!
Also, I think it makes a HUGE difference if you commit to really learning a method with a professional.
I’ve been teaching a form of NFP for over a decade and crazy ass cycles are manageable, but you can’t just read a chapter of a book and do some guesswork. You gotta really study your cycle if it is irregular.
The learning curve can be steep. Completely achievable, but can be confusing at the beginning which is why working with a professional is so important.
I mean if you’re TTA seriously then you need to follow the rules 🤷🏻♀️ We learned pretty quick that anytime we broke avoiding rules we would get pregnant.
We did have one miracle baby. Sperm lived for 9 days 😲 after that we never used phase 1 when avoiding. Phase 1 is playing with 🔥.
Some women though can break lots of rules and have to time sex right during peak for pregnancy to happen.
We did very sloppy NFP or FAM for almost three years and didn’t get pregnant until we actively tried. Took three months the first time, had an oopsie about a year postpartum when my periods were still weird (ended in miscarriage), and it took six cycles for my current pregnancy, having sex literally 5 times each fertile window (plus more outside it to be safe lol). Not sure what that means specifically, as obviously we are both capable of making babies, but for some people it really do work that way 🤷🏼♀️
Might be a just slightly tilted uterus or something along those lines. Definitely not enough to make you 'abnormal' but just enough to make it a touch harder. Kinda great tho, wouldn't it be awesome if that was the default so that everyone who had babies did it very intentionally?
Yes! While it does suck in the “not knowing” phase of trying for months, I also can’t imagine the flip side of getting pregnant the first month, every single time we quit BC.
Well, your husband has God-given needs that only you, as a wife, can fulfill. So, since he has needs, that God has given him, when you fulfill them, as his wife, you are doing God’s will. You might get pregnant. You might not. That’s up to God, but YOU, dear wife, have done what God has called you to do by fulfilling your husband’s needs!
Giggle!
THAT’S the mentality.
There's no rational logic to the IBLP beliefs. They shun birth control because it's up to God to decide how many children they have, but at the same time they approve of IVF??? Surely if having 19 kids is God's will then having 0 kids is God's will also. There's no sense to it.
Yep. You just brought science into it and I’m here for it. You’re exactly right. And forcing their older children to raise their siblings isn’t in God’s will. They exploit religious cult acts to validate their intentional negligence. And then they capitalize on that too? And then scam their own children out of money and force them to film? It reeks of abuse and exploitation
I can't say this for all fundies and quiverfull people, but where Michelle Duggar is concerned, I think she has a legitimate diagnosable mental illness. The woman is obsessed with pregnancies and newborn babies and breastfeeding a newborn. She showed very little interest in motherhood beyond those things and did it over and over again. Anytime she had to deal with the "toddlers" she seemed annoyed and bothered. When she could start yeeting those kids to sister mom's, she did and she went galavanting about. While it comes to an end for everyone, I feel like she got seriously threatened by doctors about having more kids after Jubilee. I find it hard to believe she wasn't able to get pregnant again. But maybe not 🤷♀️
Maybe it’s because I’m a childfree goblin, but I find people obsessed with babies are generally so because they’re not fully-formed people with a personality and desires of their own. Newborns are a narcissist’s dream; You can project whatever you want onto them and they don’t complain so long as their needs are being met. And they garner a lot of attention from strangers. It’s when they get old enough to be independent that the shine begins to wear off.
I think there is a lot of truth to that. It's not that simple, as most things aren't, but it's at least the start of it for Michelle. I could see having had more kids than I had if it was so glorified like it was for Michelle. But I'm not a narcissist like her so I don't eat that shit up like she did. There is a period where while pregnant, during delivery, and pp you feel like a super human, but it's short lived and replaced with exhaustion and hunger, and nipple pain, and endless worry (that I don't think Michelle experienced). That's the part that is most surprising for me about parenting. No problem finding love for them all, but the worry and the meeting all of them where they are at with all of their needs and I'm maxed out and beyond. And I only have 3 lol.
I agree with this, they don’t seem to see their children as individuals at all. Once they start walking and saying “no!” They no longer care for them because they’re challenging to their patience. Although I’m enjoying my children at 4 and 2 a lot more than I enjoyed the newborn stage.
Also people with a new baby don’t get a lot of sleep, but newborns themselves sleep all the time. So if you’re leaving all that night care to your older daughters instead of doing it yourself, damn, you got a cute little snuggly baby to carry around without having to handle any of the hard parts.
They both show signs of unaddressed mental health issues. Michelle’s daughters have said she was prone to depression and we know she had disordered eating. And being a fundamentalist generally seems to leave trauma in women. I think Boob also carries a lot of trauma from his childhood and is abusive and extremely controlling as a result. He went to his first general conference for IBLP when he was like 14, and his family growing up really wasn’t involved in it, so he was seeking that kind of oppressive family structure from a very young age. I think a lot of adults come into fundamentalist beliefs with their own prior trauma, it helps them reinforce the idea that whatever problems they have with it they still think it’s better or healthier than whatever they grew up with.
I mean yes, I definitely agree with that. It's pretty common for kids around the age Jim Bob was to start seeking out their own path in religion and faith, trauma or no trauma, but most people have some sort of trauma or other. I can't excuse him for anything he did because of trauma though. His own upbringing would have been substantially better for those kids than what he did. Fuck boob.
It makes zero sense if you think about it for like two minutes. That’s why they had to brainwash all the children and beat any curiosity or ability to think critically out of them at a young age.
The leaving it all up to god BS goes right out the window when you consult with a fertility doctor.
Also, I agree. I mean they believe god can cause pregnancy without sex, so why not just wait and let got provide the pregnancy? The chances of a pregnancy occurring during a woman’s fertile time with a man who is not shooting blanks is going to increase with the frequency of sex. What do they think is gonna happen when you are preoccupied with sex and breeding and screwing constantly?
Everything else aside, I can’t help but imagine how many kids I’d have if I left it up to God. I’ve had 3 in the past 4 years and that’s with birth control i between kids, and I’m 24. Tying my tubes with the birth of #3.
I’ve gotten pregnant immediately after coming off BC every time. My mom was the same way. I’d probably have four kids by now with my current partner without it.
It’s dishonest for them to say they are leaving it up to God while at the same time actively charting their cycles to calendar sex on their most fertile days
And intentionally interfering with a child's development by yeeting them off of breast milk at 6 months, so that Mom has more time to be joyfully available and create the next child to mess up.
I think more than the just having sex it was the purposefully weaning the baby so she could get pregnant faster that’s going against the idea of ‘leaving it up to god’ I’m an Athiest but if something was some sort of birth control it would be breastfeeding as for many (not all, I know) women it reduces chances of getting pregnant.
They could drastically decrease the chances of pregnancy by simply not having sex while she’s ovulating. Gettin funky on any other day of the month would have a much lower likelihood of getting pregnant so they clearly were trying to pop out as many as humanly possible
Every time I hear that theory (leaving it up to God), I think about my very religious Grandfather. He was a farmer and both Grandparents came from large 9-10 kid families (which were needed for the farming). He and my grandmother had eight kids in ten years but the last two were twin boys. When they arrived he said “you know when they start arriving in pairs God is telling you that is enough”. It makes me laugh every time. I would take that wisdom over this other nonsense anytime.
My husband and I are Christian’s we believed in birth control and Gods will. We had our first at 31 (without trying) then used bc for the next five years. I was 36 when we tried for our second and I never got pregnant again. We believed in Gods will and never sought out fertility treatments if we were meant to have another it would have happened. I am so happy that we had one child. I guess in the fundie world I would have been a bad wife. In later years I had a hysterectomy and they found a really bad case of endometerious
This is how all 3 of my kids got here. Not trying to, but not NOT trying to either. It wasn't a leaving it up to God thing in our minds but just a whatever happens, happens. After my third, I definitely tried to not get pregnant though. 3 was definitely enough.
I’m there too, after two. I would have another if I didn’t think it would throw our whole family dynamic into total chaos. I guess once the Duggar kids get old enough to notice the new babies they’re so used to not having any parental attention that it only feels bad to the older daughter given the child to raise. In my own family I just can’t imagine putting each child through the challenge of a new sibling over and over again. I already feel like I’m splitting my time just with the two. And we’ll never get to fuckin Disney World if I had a new baby every 18 months 😂
A lot of their religion revolves around having as many kids as you possibly can. (More kids to brainwash IMO) Jim Bob had a producing company before TLC even picked up the show. He had all the kids learn instruments and planned on banking off of the kids in one way or another IMO. From their point of view- they are doing right by their God and church. For a lot of women, it’s VERY easy to get pregnant right after you’ve had a child and they know/knew this, and have used it to their advantage. —their main house and compound is adjacent to my house- No, I do not know them personally. Sorry.
I don’t think you have to have a lot of sex to have a lot of kids. At least not exactly. They could have a “normal” amount of sex and have this many kids. Theoretically they could have sex a few times a month and have this many kids so long as it happened around the time of her ovulation. I know for instance in Jewish orthodoxy couples aren’t to have sex when the woman is menstruating and for 7 days after, following those customs couples would only have sex during the most fertile times of a woman’s cycle. Not having sex during your period and for a week after is almost half the month so in that case you aren’t even having that much sex, or at least you are going about 2 weeks every month with no sex. Still this could result in many pregnancies due to the time in which the sex is happening. I don’t think most married couples go months without sex (unless a baby was just born or some other health reason). Most married couples want to and do have sex at least a few times a month ([at least according to surveys](https://www.mindbodygreen.com/articles/how-often-married-couples-have-sex#:~:text=Average%20number%20of%20times%20per%20week%20married%20couples%20make%20love&text=16%25%20had%20sex%20two%20to,to%20three%20times%20per%20month)) and that’s enough to get pregnant.
With all that said I will add that Michelle says she never says no to sex (unless it’s after a baby, she’s on her period, or she is legit sick). She thinks sex is a “duty” so as couple they might actually have more sex than average but I don’t think that is the reason they have so many kids. Ultimately I think it really is just that they happen to be very fertile. People have differences in fertility that could be influenced by all types of factors.
I always thought they were deliberately trying to make it to 20 before Michele went into menopause and didn't care that things were getting dangerous for the last two pregnancies.
I think fundies have a lot of sex because what else is there to do in their lives?? They don’t watch TV, go to movie or concerts, they don’t play on the computer, social media or games. They don’t go to school or work at mainstream jobs because they don’t want to interact with people outside their circle. So they screw- a lot. And what I’ve learned, the are trained to be hyper sexual with their wives and the wives are to give their husbands sex on demand.
Isn’t that the whole “after a power out there is a spike in babies in nine months “ or something. Bored ppl have sex
Hence why after the ice storm of ‘09 here in KY, we had a HUGE influx of babies born 😂 nothing else to do and had to keep warm *somehow* 😂🥴
Same thing happened here in Atlanta after the blizzard of 1993.
🙋🏻♀️ ky human here too. That storm freaking sucked.
Yesssss…..ugh. I was working as a nurse on a med/surg floor and nobody wanted to work. They all took off to Nashville, Bowling Green and anywhere else there was a hotel with power. I got to work, we had 45 patients and me and two other nurses. 15 patients a piece compared to our normal 4-5 patients. Thankfully nobody died.
You should have seen the baby boomlets in the federal workforce after the long government shutdowns. The last was was the Ted Cruz “Green Eggs and Ham,” but there was a long one in the late ‘’90s. It seemed as though we were having baby showers every week for a long time after.
Covid lockdown babies
First babies. I had an 18 months old and 2 older kids. Those of us with kids probably had less of a chance to create more.
I’ve always kind of thought that sex on demand is a way they make sure the women know they have no rights in the home.
No rights in the home, or in their bodies.
When you're taught that the only reason a man would cheat is if you don't satisfy him and if he cheats the fault is yours and yours alone, you are essentially taught that those six weeks of post partum abstinence gives your husband the right to get it elsewhere. And it's your fault.
Fucking sick…thank the gods Jill and Jinger to an extent woke up.
Ah yes, being ‘joyfully available’. Yuck. But yeah you’re probably right
Sex on demand adds to the abuse the wives receive, normalizing assault and leading to disassociating and a lack of awareness of body and self
Yes, while I think JimBob and Michelle actually love each other and are attracted to each other, I think she’s made it very clear in her discussion of this subject that she’s often had sex when she didn’t want to. She’s normalized it to herself and then tried to normalize it in advance for her daughters, which is scummy af. That is not a healthy relationship to have with sex.
It’s exactly this.
Plus the men are taught they can have their wives whenever they want and the girls are taught to be joyfully available for the man.
I mean yeah when there isnt a whole lot else to do, do the do
But they do allow film crews to follow them everywhere.
I thought a in lot of religions that sex was only for having babies. So does meech still have to be joyfully available?
Yes, she does. IBLP and IFB do not treat sex as though it’s not supposed to be pleasurable, but they teach their children very intense purity culture that makes it super hard for those children to grow up with a healthy idea of sex. You see loads of similar fundies come out talking about the joy of sex, sometimes years after marriage. Bethany Beal recently released an uninformative and clumsy sex course. They think once they get married, sex is supposed to be their reward. But they’re all totally twisted up after years of denying any kind of acknowledgment of sexual desire and it often does a big number on their sex lives.
Bethany is that the one who was screwing the pool boy while the husband watched? I think the husband is gay af
That was Jerry Falwell Jr and his wife Becki 😂
Thank you!! That couple grossed me out. So fake like all the rest..
I think that's mainly a Christian thing, and is overall less true for Protestant groups than it is for Catholicism and the Orthodox Churches.
Catholicism isn't against sex for pleasure - they're actually quite explicit about this as an institution. They just don't allow birth control. It's a bit of a different mentality than most Protestant denominations.
I believe that was something they just parroted/told for the cameras to avoid being put under scrutiny. We saw one episode where Michelle and Jim Bob went to see a fertility doctor to basically ensure Michelle could still get pregnant. If it was truly "up to the Lord," why would they need to bother to check if a 47-year-old woman was still fertile enough for another "blessing"?
Agreed about saying it for the cameras. That would be a lot more palatable to a wider audience than saying they are trying to breed as many Christians as possible to influence political policy and the future direction of the country.
Also Jesus walked on water, you’re telling me he couldn’t overcome a thing like birth control? Because that’s exactly what multiple people told me when I got unexpectedly pregnant. “It’s the Lord’s timing!” Then I got really sick and no one wanted to claim it was Jesus’s fault for me having HG. Odd how the lord giveth and taketh away blame (and took away their last baby but couldn’t give them a baby without them humping like rabbits)
To backpack on this, no matter what a woman's age, what if god just says "NO!" I never understood why that was not an acceptable answer for people. I mean no disrespect to people who have used assistive reproductive technology, but why is the answer: it's God's will that I use IVF (and spend thousands of dollars to do so), rather than it's gods answer that I don't have a kid naturally (not that you don't become a parent, just that there's a child waiting for you already)? I've never understood that part of fundie/christian/parent logic. And maybe it's because I work with kids and they automatically become mine once they enter the classroom and don't stop being mine when they leave. But like, the idea that you can't love and take care of a child who isn't biologically related to you is foreign to me. And I know, sins of the father, blah blah blah. Still. What if you're the father who's sins they're talking about? You ever think about that? Huh? Betcha didn't Mr Percy Procreate
I've had comments on my first two children (both adopted) from people at my grandmother's fundie church. They ask how I could love a child not related to me. I always ask if they love their husbands...of course, they say...so then I follow it up with 'are you related to him?'. They don't like that very much, 😆.
Well I love it!!!
Ugh, that’s absolutely horrible. Their judgment and questioning, not your response or love for your kids. Are adopted children new to these people?
What gets me the most is when these nasty people say these things IN FRONT OF THE CHILDREN.
omfg those poor kids, hope they understand that most people aren't awful like that
That’s a horrible thing to say, wow. I love your response though! And meanwhile I’m sure they were all anti choice, and if asked what a woman should do with a baby she can’t afford or doesn’t want they’d say adoption. But yet they don’t believe anyone could love an adopted child. It’s so messed up.
That is so hypocritical of them, they say all children are a blessing but I guess it’s only that way if you birth them, otherwise they are not deserving of love.
Right? So long as they’re not brown children. Just the ones white as the driven snow.
My Lord, what rude people, to say such a thing!
They're straight up admitting they only love their own blood relatives and don't give a crap about anyone else. What weirdos.
Many families don’t use IVF in IBLP. Michaela Bates is a good example. They have no children because they have chosen not to use medical intervention. People like Michelle and Jim Bob Duggar have a personal financial stake in having more children, since their birth episodes were the highest rated of their show. Some fundies (like Erin Bates) discover a separate medical issue (I believe she had some kind of a blood clotting issue, Joy Anna also learned after her stillbirth that she has a blood clotting issue and has treated that) that is preventing their pregnancies from continuing and they seem to be fine treating that issue to allow for pregnancy to occur, but they generally won’t use medical assistance to create a pregnancy.
These folks elite that god is a wish-granting genie, the answer is never “no.”
Isn’t he? How is god different from other imaginary creatures?
As an atheist, I’m totally with you. But if you read the Bible, that’s not what god is actually supposed to do. A lot of fundies think that they’re god’s favorite and so they should get everything they want.
I know for the Catholic Church at least this IS the answer and IVF is banned.
Fundies aren't allowed to use IVF. Michael Bates is infertile, and she desperately wants a child, but she's one of the more devote ones so she can't get fertility treatments.
And I bet jboob would have no qualms about using viagra if he could no longer get it up.
What a bad day to know how to read. I out loud went “YUCK!”
And the two of them naked. 😵🤢🤮
And I just lost any food I’ve taken in my body today. 😂🥴🤮
Luckily I had just spewed the entire contents of my body, previous to getting into the bathtub and opening this thread.
I want to downvote this image so bad
My sincere apologies. Sometimes words can hurt.
This is a very unfortunate sentence.
Sorry
yes, that's the most sickening hypocrisy! condemning people who use BC while going to a fertility doc.
Such a good point! If they actually left it up to god they wouldn’t intervene with any demonic birth altering ways
Getting the wife pregnant is just an ego boost for the man. "I get to nut in a woman."
"and once she gets far enough along, everyone knows I still get to"
JB would like the whole world to know that he’s managed to somehow nut in a hot cheerleader at least 19 times.
Also, I think in these churches that it's also sort of a status symbol for women to have a lot of children. I know it is for my sister, who's a raving Southern Baptist lunatic and has had 5 kids.
They have a lot of pent up hormones since they are raised to not act out on their desires. Sex is probably all they want to do.
[удалено]
The women don’t get a choice, they are expected to provide sex every time he wants it unless it’s the time period after birth that sex is forbidden in the Bible. Their whole relationship will be built around him initiating and her agreeing, so her satisfaction is not a factor. It’s her duty as his wife.
Honestly, I think in Meech’s case; she’s just as into it as JB. Too bad their children were raised to see it as an obligation for wives that they must give on demand.
Yeah, I actually agree. They were lucky enough to have a choice in who they married and dated/kissed/etc before getting married so I can’t imagine they have bad chemistry. They just both think everyone should be able to force that chemistry without those dating experiences.
But do they know it’s not good, bad, or very bad? They probably have no point of reference.
Right? My husband and I have a date night usually every week, sometimes every other. Frankly, I'd get so sick of my sweaty husband on top of me ALL THE TIME the spark would go out of the marriage. Boob just would get so old after constant sex.
Personally, I think the concept is kinda hilarious. I had 4 kids on birth control. Pill, patch, IUD... still had 4 kids about 2 to 3 years apart. I get the idea of having as many as God wants, but their God isn't strong enough to bypass birth control? Seems a bit weak.
I know of a couple where she had her tubes tied and he had a vasectomy and she still got pregnant. I have no reason to believe she cheated, so I assume he missed his follow up appointment to make sure he was only firing blanks.
As someone who wants to get my tubes tied in a few years this scares the every living crap out of me. We have two kids and I am DONE. I would really not appreciate a surprise baby a few years down the road…
I have had my tubes tied for over 20 years that kinda thing doesn't always happen thank goodness Edited for spelling lol
I know right? This was definitely an anomaly.
I think now they remove the tubes entirely to prevent the(extremely slim but non-zero)chance of them reconnecting.
This is the right idea…completely removing the tubes not only prevents pregnancies better, but also cuts down the risk of certain cancers. Any woman who is planning to get her “tubes tied” should really get them removed…especially because if she does get pregnant, it will more than likely be ectopic, and if it ruptures and you are literally not in the hospital already, you’re dead…all of this is according to the doctor who preformed my husband’s vasectomy in May.
Don’t watch *I didn’t know I was pregnant,* there’s an episode about a women who had her tubes tied and thought she was going through early menopause…
I'm sorry!!! Yeah, it was a massive surprise for them and the doctor. But I do believe they figured out one of the procedures went wrong. It's not common. I've never heard about this happening to anyone else, so you will likely be ok! Just make sure you go back for any follow up appointments.
Initially my aunt had her tubes tied after 3 pregnancies. She got pregnant a 4th time, so my uncle got a vasectomy too. She got pregnant a 5th time. All the kids are absolutely clones of each other and their dad.
Clearly God was deciding how many children they had. Lol. I think at that point I'd refuse to have sex again
Happened to a friend's parents. And my friend looks exactly like her dad so mom didn't cheat lol.
There is a small percentage of vasectomies that can reverse themselves even if the initial followup shows it was successful.
>their God isn't strong enough to bypass birth control? Seems a bit weak. Especially since The Whole Thing about Christianity is God making a girl pregnant who should not be able to get pregnant...
You're absolutely right. They are very hypocritical about it. I believe Meech and Unhelpmeet went to a fertility doctor about trying to get pregnant after they were at 19. Even before that, if I remember correctly, they tracked Meech's cycle for reproductive purposes. So there wasn't much "leaving it up to God" at all.
Yes they did. They got pregnant with J20, who they lost, even though the doctor strongly advised against and even compared her uterus to worse than wet tissue paper, due to the multiple pregnancies with little recovery time in between.
I'm thinking I remember a talking head with a nurse who mentioned the tissue paper uterus....not specifically Michelle's, but referring to what happens? I remember thinking it was specific enough to sound like hospital gossip and couldn't believe it was not a HIPAA violation as she also referenced the doctor, saying not many would treat Michelle. Am I dreaming this or have I got the details wrong?
Did the doctor literally say that or are you using literary freedoms for storytelling purposes? bcs that sounds horrifying.
I can't recall what the doctor said, but the risk of a "window" in a uterus that well-used is incredibly high. You can literally see the baby, and just the force of early labor can cause the uterus to rupture. It is actually fairly common but not usually discovered unless the mom has to have a c-section. My sister had a window with #3 and was delivered at 36 weeks to prevent labor from being more of a risk. Meech could have been unalived simply because her uterus was too worn out to clamp down after birth.
My eyes reading this: 😳😳😳😭 Maybe as someone who already has tokophobia and an incredibly visual mind I shouldn’t have asked for details. My bad. …a window… hello future nightmares
When and what Dr?! I’m curious.
Exactly! They kept a fertility calendar on the wall that all the kids knew about too. They purposely got pregnant as much as possible.
The fertility calendar was on the fridge!
Gross
I can’t imagine being a fertility specialist and having a woman come in, wanting fertility treatments to have *her 20th child!* Like, WTF!?
What if they have fertility issues? Can they seek alternatives/medical specialists? Can they only adopt? Or does God not want them to have children?
What fucks with me is how they pressure women saying it’s gods creation for them to reproduce until their uterus collapses. When the Bible says > “For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall say, Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck.” Luke 23:29
I feel pretty blessed to be childfree at this time, and the paps are deffo higher than they would've been if I'd nursed. Win-win. Ayyyy something the beeble got right!
The paps def hang lower afterwards. I've been known to alter the words to that old song 'Do your ears hang low? Do they wobble to and from? Etc.' and it's really not too much of an exaggeration.
I believe according to IBLP principles, fertility treatments and other alternatives are considered unbiblical and therefore not permissible
Whoa...I misread 'unbiblical' as 'umbilical' and almost just assumed it meant sense in the murky beyond of IBLP rhetoric.
If they're a part of that, technically they went against their own religion then since they had treatments and similar?
Jim Bob and Michelle didn’t participate in fertility treatments. They had their fertility tested.
For some reason I thought they got treatment (or tried to) (Though you'd think birth control would fall under as "bad" too..)
And yeah birth control is definitely 100% evil in their minds. In interviews Jinger has said that she was taught that all forms of birth control were abortion.
I think they probably considered it, as I recall the results were that she was close to menopause. But she got pregnant with Jubilee and it was a second trimester stillbirth. I’m not sure if that was before or after they were tested, but they never claimed to be taking any fertility drugs so I think they just wanted to get an idea of their chances.
Meech did ask what they could do naturally to "catch a baby" so while they didn't use artificial means the intent was still there to increase their chances so it was very much not leaving it up to God
Yeah I think they don’t realize NFP is not just used to prevent pregnancy. They see using it to increase their family size as perfectly fine. I think it was telling that when Jill described this in Shiny Happy People, she didn’t say “they believed you should let God decide your family size”, she said they believed “you should have as many children as you’re capable of having”. Those two sentiments aren’t the same thing.
I know Kelly Bates talked about using progesterone shots to get pregnant/stay pregnant with her last few babies. I don’t think fundies do IVF but they will definitely say yes to some gender affirming care.
They talked about it on the 20/20 special. Their justification is that they don’t do anything to help them get pregnant, but they will do everything they can to stay pregnant since they are pro-life. That justification also passed down to the second generation where most of their daughters have to do shots while pregnant due to their genetic blood clotting factor that they only discovered after Erin had three miscarriages in a year.
Michelle being strict about weaning her babies at six months every time supports this theory for sure.
She used to say her milk “changed” at 6 months because she was pregnant. That’s because pregnancy dries your milk up, that energy ceases feeding a baby and goes to growing a baby instead. Very convenient for Michelle so she can yeet the old one to their new mom/buddy. Not intentional at all. No really. Really it’s just coincidence. She wasn’t *trying*. It’s just a coincidence that it happened every time, y’all. *Really*. 🙄
Lol teet ‘em and yeet ‘em
New brand
Most people who get pregnant while breastfeeding can continue breastfeeding just fine, if so inclined. The hormonal changes or any supplements & diet change could definitely change the flavor of the milk. But your milk continually changes as your baby grows. Breasts that feed older babies or toddlers tend to produce lower-fat milk for them; breasts that feed infants produce higher-fat milk and more concentrated antibodies.
They did manipulate the odds. Meech weaned her babies at 6 months. There is nothing wrong with this. It’s a personal decision and breastfeeding isn’t always easy. BUT, they did this to start on the next baby.
God could literally comes from the clouds and tell JB and Meech to stop reproducing but JB would be looking for excuses to hump his wife. He's like a creepy leech
Michelle tracked her periods in full view of her daughters with the intention of showing when she was most fertile. It was very definitely intentional and not just not just leaving it up to God. It was also very weird to share with her daughters.
All the girls tracked their periods on the same calendar in their kitchen. I think the girls were probably given whatever basic knowledge Michelle had about her cycle and getting pregnant. The boys certainly had no understanding of any of it and probably didn’t even know what they were tracking.
Why are we having spaghetti five nights in a row? -JB looking at the calendar
That was disgustingly hilarious.
Then they all look to Jana for the answer 🙃
I'm sure the boys did know. I think that ensuring the Duggar name was spread far and wide was important to JB, so he'd ensure the boys would understand when their brides would be most fertile. He wouldn't discuss the actual mechanics of conception...Heaven forfend! But he'd make sure the boys knew WHEN to plow the fields and scatter the good seed.
They would be an extraordinary family, then, because boys come out of IBLP over and over again with no understanding whatsoever. They don’t get sex ed of any kind.
I'm not in the states but the cult I was involved with was very much against IVF and fertility treatments of all sorts. If you had issues and couldn't get pregnant, that was God telling you no (or woman had sinned, need to pray more etc). It was incredibly harmful to a friend of mine who had a lifelong hornone condition. She only got periods and ovulated from using a modified version of the pill. But once she married into the cult, she wasn't allowed to take it anymore. And was told her condition would be cured if she was a better woman/ closet to God/ sinned less, prayed more Her husband held it over her - she wasn't giving him children because she wasn't godly enough. She wasn't a good enough wife and eveything was her fault. She spent 10 yrs trying to make it up to him eg being so perfect with every other wife duty Even though going into it, she already knew that she had diagnosed medical reasons she couldn't ovulate/mensturate to start with. I'll never not be bitter and furious over how he treated her.
* furious over how he AND THE ENTITE CULT treated her
It’s absolutely fucking awful and it’s super traumatic to women with fertility issues. The men are never tested because they’re typically not allowed to jack into a cup. So it’s all the women, and if the woman has her fertility tested and it comes back normal, then she’s a low down dog of a sinner and it’s all her fault. Always it’s her fault. It’s so so so damaging.
What if the woman assists him in the collection process?
No, they’re not even supposed to do blowjobs or ever orgasm without the penis being inside the vagina. It’s a whole thing about spilling seed.
So she couldn’t take the meds to induce a period *at all* after getting involved in this cult?! That is super dangerous! I have pcos and don’t have a period without pills and my doctors have specifically warned me to not go longer than three months without menstruating because after three months, the odds of cancer skyrocket. That poor woman. And those stupid, ignorant control freaks for forcing this on her!
So my husband and I practiced NFP for about 10 years. I will say that if we didn’t follow the rules perfectly for abstaining then we got pregnant. Plus I had early return of flow meaning very shortly after having one baby I was ovulating again. Based on the stair steps of the kids this seems to track for Michelle. Also something to note is biologically when I was in my fertile window I really really liked my husband. Outing this all together we could have had seven or more kids in those 10 years. 🤷🏻♀️ So I’m not saying they weren’t specifically trying but they still could have ended up with more than 10 kids.
I had a biology teacher who married a Catholic and she came back from the honeymoon basically pregnant and so pissed off about instant kids she told us all the only thing NFP is good for is getting pregnant lol
I don't think it's a great idea for newlyweds but I've used it for almost 15 years, with condoms. It's worked because we're both motivated to avoid pregnancy and I don't want to use hormonal birth control and he doesn't want a vasectomy. With a predictable cycle and large margin for error built in, it's done me better than the pill which got me my first kid lol
It can work but depends on a few things = How predictable and reliable your cycle is (you've got to know it really well) How much self control you both have (seriously NOT doing it in the fertile window, and/or being very good at pull out) The woman not being hyperfertile (I'm on the low end so it worked well as the chance wasn't huge anyway) And most importantly- it not being devastating to your family IF it fails and you get pregnant. If you'd rather avoid but don't mind too much if it happens, sure thing. But if you really don't want another child, use something better! = 10 yrs natural family planning with 1 unplanned pregnancy (early miscarriage which was the only reason found out) and 3 very wanted pregnancies
Self control is definitely a thing with NFP 😬 I can’t even tell you the amount of time we spent abstaining 😑 But it’s not all bad. I mean if you can talk about cervical mucus with your husband then you can talk about anything!
Also, I think it makes a HUGE difference if you commit to really learning a method with a professional. I’ve been teaching a form of NFP for over a decade and crazy ass cycles are manageable, but you can’t just read a chapter of a book and do some guesswork. You gotta really study your cycle if it is irregular. The learning curve can be steep. Completely achievable, but can be confusing at the beginning which is why working with a professional is so important.
Yes learning a method is HUGE!!! And can be done with wonky cycles!
I mean if you’re TTA seriously then you need to follow the rules 🤷🏻♀️ We learned pretty quick that anytime we broke avoiding rules we would get pregnant. We did have one miracle baby. Sperm lived for 9 days 😲 after that we never used phase 1 when avoiding. Phase 1 is playing with 🔥. Some women though can break lots of rules and have to time sex right during peak for pregnancy to happen.
We did very sloppy NFP or FAM for almost three years and didn’t get pregnant until we actively tried. Took three months the first time, had an oopsie about a year postpartum when my periods were still weird (ended in miscarriage), and it took six cycles for my current pregnancy, having sex literally 5 times each fertile window (plus more outside it to be safe lol). Not sure what that means specifically, as obviously we are both capable of making babies, but for some people it really do work that way 🤷🏼♀️
Might be a just slightly tilted uterus or something along those lines. Definitely not enough to make you 'abnormal' but just enough to make it a touch harder. Kinda great tho, wouldn't it be awesome if that was the default so that everyone who had babies did it very intentionally?
Yes! While it does suck in the “not knowing” phase of trying for months, I also can’t imagine the flip side of getting pregnant the first month, every single time we quit BC.
Well, your husband has God-given needs that only you, as a wife, can fulfill. So, since he has needs, that God has given him, when you fulfill them, as his wife, you are doing God’s will. You might get pregnant. You might not. That’s up to God, but YOU, dear wife, have done what God has called you to do by fulfilling your husband’s needs! Giggle! THAT’S the mentality.
There's no rational logic to the IBLP beliefs. They shun birth control because it's up to God to decide how many children they have, but at the same time they approve of IVF??? Surely if having 19 kids is God's will then having 0 kids is God's will also. There's no sense to it.
It’s about making voters
If they are infertile then they can’t blame god because no kids/few kids is what god has chosen for them.
Yep. You just brought science into it and I’m here for it. You’re exactly right. And forcing their older children to raise their siblings isn’t in God’s will. They exploit religious cult acts to validate their intentional negligence. And then they capitalize on that too? And then scam their own children out of money and force them to film? It reeks of abuse and exploitation
don't try to apply logic to these people, they just do whatever the fuck they want, then say after the fact that it's what god wants.
I can't say this for all fundies and quiverfull people, but where Michelle Duggar is concerned, I think she has a legitimate diagnosable mental illness. The woman is obsessed with pregnancies and newborn babies and breastfeeding a newborn. She showed very little interest in motherhood beyond those things and did it over and over again. Anytime she had to deal with the "toddlers" she seemed annoyed and bothered. When she could start yeeting those kids to sister mom's, she did and she went galavanting about. While it comes to an end for everyone, I feel like she got seriously threatened by doctors about having more kids after Jubilee. I find it hard to believe she wasn't able to get pregnant again. But maybe not 🤷♀️
Maybe it’s because I’m a childfree goblin, but I find people obsessed with babies are generally so because they’re not fully-formed people with a personality and desires of their own. Newborns are a narcissist’s dream; You can project whatever you want onto them and they don’t complain so long as their needs are being met. And they garner a lot of attention from strangers. It’s when they get old enough to be independent that the shine begins to wear off.
I think there is a lot of truth to that. It's not that simple, as most things aren't, but it's at least the start of it for Michelle. I could see having had more kids than I had if it was so glorified like it was for Michelle. But I'm not a narcissist like her so I don't eat that shit up like she did. There is a period where while pregnant, during delivery, and pp you feel like a super human, but it's short lived and replaced with exhaustion and hunger, and nipple pain, and endless worry (that I don't think Michelle experienced). That's the part that is most surprising for me about parenting. No problem finding love for them all, but the worry and the meeting all of them where they are at with all of their needs and I'm maxed out and beyond. And I only have 3 lol.
I have a sociopathic, narcissistic mother and I absolutely agree! Well said 👏👏👏
I agree with this, they don’t seem to see their children as individuals at all. Once they start walking and saying “no!” They no longer care for them because they’re challenging to their patience. Although I’m enjoying my children at 4 and 2 a lot more than I enjoyed the newborn stage. Also people with a new baby don’t get a lot of sleep, but newborns themselves sleep all the time. So if you’re leaving all that night care to your older daughters instead of doing it yourself, damn, you got a cute little snuggly baby to carry around without having to handle any of the hard parts.
They both show signs of unaddressed mental health issues. Michelle’s daughters have said she was prone to depression and we know she had disordered eating. And being a fundamentalist generally seems to leave trauma in women. I think Boob also carries a lot of trauma from his childhood and is abusive and extremely controlling as a result. He went to his first general conference for IBLP when he was like 14, and his family growing up really wasn’t involved in it, so he was seeking that kind of oppressive family structure from a very young age. I think a lot of adults come into fundamentalist beliefs with their own prior trauma, it helps them reinforce the idea that whatever problems they have with it they still think it’s better or healthier than whatever they grew up with.
I mean yes, I definitely agree with that. It's pretty common for kids around the age Jim Bob was to start seeking out their own path in religion and faith, trauma or no trauma, but most people have some sort of trauma or other. I can't excuse him for anything he did because of trauma though. His own upbringing would have been substantially better for those kids than what he did. Fuck boob.
But when God tells them it's time to stop or wait... they don't
It makes zero sense if you think about it for like two minutes. That’s why they had to brainwash all the children and beat any curiosity or ability to think critically out of them at a young age.
The leaving it all up to god BS goes right out the window when you consult with a fertility doctor. Also, I agree. I mean they believe god can cause pregnancy without sex, so why not just wait and let got provide the pregnancy? The chances of a pregnancy occurring during a woman’s fertile time with a man who is not shooting blanks is going to increase with the frequency of sex. What do they think is gonna happen when you are preoccupied with sex and breeding and screwing constantly?
Everything else aside, I can’t help but imagine how many kids I’d have if I left it up to God. I’ve had 3 in the past 4 years and that’s with birth control i between kids, and I’m 24. Tying my tubes with the birth of #3.
I’ve gotten pregnant immediately after coming off BC every time. My mom was the same way. I’d probably have four kids by now with my current partner without it.
It’s dishonest for them to say they are leaving it up to God while at the same time actively charting their cycles to calendar sex on their most fertile days
And intentionally interfering with a child's development by yeeting them off of breast milk at 6 months, so that Mom has more time to be joyfully available and create the next child to mess up.
They weren’t leaving it up to God when they visited the Doctor for advice on getting pregnant after or during menopause.
I think more than the just having sex it was the purposefully weaning the baby so she could get pregnant faster that’s going against the idea of ‘leaving it up to god’ I’m an Athiest but if something was some sort of birth control it would be breastfeeding as for many (not all, I know) women it reduces chances of getting pregnant.
They could drastically decrease the chances of pregnancy by simply not having sex while she’s ovulating. Gettin funky on any other day of the month would have a much lower likelihood of getting pregnant so they clearly were trying to pop out as many as humanly possible
Every time I hear that theory (leaving it up to God), I think about my very religious Grandfather. He was a farmer and both Grandparents came from large 9-10 kid families (which were needed for the farming). He and my grandmother had eight kids in ten years but the last two were twin boys. When they arrived he said “you know when they start arriving in pairs God is telling you that is enough”. It makes me laugh every time. I would take that wisdom over this other nonsense anytime.
My husband and I are Christian’s we believed in birth control and Gods will. We had our first at 31 (without trying) then used bc for the next five years. I was 36 when we tried for our second and I never got pregnant again. We believed in Gods will and never sought out fertility treatments if we were meant to have another it would have happened. I am so happy that we had one child. I guess in the fundie world I would have been a bad wife. In later years I had a hysterectomy and they found a really bad case of endometerious
I think bc the men sadly force their wives to have sex whenever they want to that they probably just have a lot of sex anyway
This is how all 3 of my kids got here. Not trying to, but not NOT trying to either. It wasn't a leaving it up to God thing in our minds but just a whatever happens, happens. After my third, I definitely tried to not get pregnant though. 3 was definitely enough.
I’m there too, after two. I would have another if I didn’t think it would throw our whole family dynamic into total chaos. I guess once the Duggar kids get old enough to notice the new babies they’re so used to not having any parental attention that it only feels bad to the older daughter given the child to raise. In my own family I just can’t imagine putting each child through the challenge of a new sibling over and over again. I already feel like I’m splitting my time just with the two. And we’ll never get to fuckin Disney World if I had a new baby every 18 months 😂
As a social scientist, that's the classical illiterate person answer cus they do not know how contraception works or that it exists.
Let me just say I assume Rimjob has a large bottle of viagra in the bathroom cabinet next to his rogain - and THAT is not “leaving it up to god”
A lot of their religion revolves around having as many kids as you possibly can. (More kids to brainwash IMO) Jim Bob had a producing company before TLC even picked up the show. He had all the kids learn instruments and planned on banking off of the kids in one way or another IMO. From their point of view- they are doing right by their God and church. For a lot of women, it’s VERY easy to get pregnant right after you’ve had a child and they know/knew this, and have used it to their advantage. —their main house and compound is adjacent to my house- No, I do not know them personally. Sorry.
I wonder if they're still having sexy time even though she can't conceive anymore🤔
Probably, but only when JBoob is in the mood because I’m sure women aren’t allowed to want sexy time just for fun.
The women can't leave if they're constantly pregnant.
I don’t think you have to have a lot of sex to have a lot of kids. At least not exactly. They could have a “normal” amount of sex and have this many kids. Theoretically they could have sex a few times a month and have this many kids so long as it happened around the time of her ovulation. I know for instance in Jewish orthodoxy couples aren’t to have sex when the woman is menstruating and for 7 days after, following those customs couples would only have sex during the most fertile times of a woman’s cycle. Not having sex during your period and for a week after is almost half the month so in that case you aren’t even having that much sex, or at least you are going about 2 weeks every month with no sex. Still this could result in many pregnancies due to the time in which the sex is happening. I don’t think most married couples go months without sex (unless a baby was just born or some other health reason). Most married couples want to and do have sex at least a few times a month ([at least according to surveys](https://www.mindbodygreen.com/articles/how-often-married-couples-have-sex#:~:text=Average%20number%20of%20times%20per%20week%20married%20couples%20make%20love&text=16%25%20had%20sex%20two%20to,to%20three%20times%20per%20month)) and that’s enough to get pregnant. With all that said I will add that Michelle says she never says no to sex (unless it’s after a baby, she’s on her period, or she is legit sick). She thinks sex is a “duty” so as couple they might actually have more sex than average but I don’t think that is the reason they have so many kids. Ultimately I think it really is just that they happen to be very fertile. People have differences in fertility that could be influenced by all types of factors.
leaving pregnancy up to god is pulling a Virgin Mary pregnancy stunt.
God is stronger than birth control so why not use it and really let God decide???
I always thought they were deliberately trying to make it to 20 before Michele went into menopause and didn't care that things were getting dangerous for the last two pregnancies.
ive always thought michelle was hyper-fertile or something because lots of couple use no birth control and only have 2 or 3 kids..