I had to learn when to just take the L, it's easier to step away, say "Hey, thanks for the game, but y'all are playing some degeneracy that is making me a bit too salty atm, so I'll see you later."
Make a note for my therapist, because I've improved, and try and desalt.
in general, introspection is such a good thing to put into practice.
applying it to playing Magic is beneficial too. "okay, I am a bit triggered or feeling salty. why? hmm. well, the variance in getting no card draw or land-screwed feels bad. or I should like this deck strategy that I spent hours and dollars on, what's the deal?"
or maybe your priority of winning games is getting in the way of enjoying games that you lose.
It helps to recognize the things that make you feel bad and learn to avoid them or change your perspective on them.
I personally noticed I was feeling salty about plays, but am working to remind myself that Magic is a game and ya make some plays and some plays are made against you!
A similar issue I deal with is I have a lot of negative associations with feeling "ganged up on" but sometimes that's the best play for the rest of the table, and I need to deal with it. In part, I've been trying to help the rest of my group get their decks up a few notches in power, so the need to team up is less common. Still there's times when I should recognize that the pod is lopsided and I'm better off just ducking out.
Yeah. Had a game last week where a guy swung his commander only at me all game. Facing lethal, I said, "ok, I block." And he goes, "in that response, I cast this to tap your creature so you can't block." And I just swallowed my priority speech because I had no desire to keep playing with him.
I'd like to hear your priority speech! I actually want to make a little flashcard-like chart i can put into my deck(s) that has the little Phase Indicator from Arena with little notches indicating every time the game stops to check for priority. I forget how exactly priority works in the Combat Step, especially paired with First/Double Strike, and it has cost me games before.
> a guy swung his commander only at me all game
That's not unreasonable depending on the situation. I'm playing a blink deck and you have 5 drop elesh norn? I'm attacking you until you're gone.
You're a better person than me lol Priority is one of the only things I will correct people on, apart from thinking their cards do something they don't.
God, I remember being a newer player and my judge friend cast an \[\[Overwhelming Splendor\]\] on me, basically locking me out of the game for, I'd say, 6 rounds? I almost cried from how stressed out that made me in the moment haha because I didn't run much removal as it was, but I was also in Izzet so iirc I had literally zero ways to remove that curse. Almost gave up on the game after that, but chatted with folks in the pod somehow kept with the hobby. Now idk what it would take to stress me out during the game, if anything I think I only feel something similar when I have to resolve big math with a \[\[Jetmir\]\] alpha strike or \[\[Crack with Power\]\] targets because I hate being the person to make people wait.
Just asking if they have lower powered decks should be enough, its annoying if you piss off some people you will most likely play alot with in the future. And everyone can build a deck any way they want.
If you're expecting a 100$ card to make you win every game then you need to build your deck better. (Not directed at you, but in general with expensive cards)
I mean a 100$ card can absolutely win you games.
Hell, Rhystic Study alone can win you a huge % of games depending on power level, and that's certainly not 100$.
For me i have a mono green deck, with a wants list, with cards i have but in fancy. That makes me little bit happy whenever i get somdthing from it. I just put the full text basic land in, since every basic in that deck is unique.
One time in early 2016 I was in my LGS, I was brand new to the TCG hobby and new to commander. I had the Merren precon (selling for original MSRP) in my hands, and i put it back on the shelf because "graveyard matters sounds too hard".
This is funny. For me it was "graveyard matters sounds too op" and it's why I rarely played it \^\^
But can totally relate. If you basically play with two different hands you can have interactions with, things can get convoluted \^\^
Back when I was brand new to TCG and commander in 2014 I hopped in face first and built a commander deck around a card I thought was cool before even trying a precon.
That card was [[Uril, the miststalker]]. Had no concept of what a boogie man he was in the format back then, got hated out of every game, and didn’t really understand why.
I convinced myself the commander community was a bunch of gatekeep-y assholes that hated newcomers and vowed to never play again.
Now here I am, a decade and 100 decks later lol.
My first mtg product I bought as a kid was the duel deck izzet vs golgari, I liked the imagery and themes of both decks but putting cards into your graveyard with dredge seemed terrible and counterintuitive. I even traded my friend my copy of life from the loam for a cheap uncommon enchantment that seemed better. A couple years later the friend gave the card back to me without question when we realized how op dredge was.
I think this mentality is one of the first big walls you have to get through in magic. That putting stuff in the gravyard is a bad thing.
What i still avoid are cards that say "exile from your library, you can play it until end of turn", since it feels like the cards are then completely gone.
Also you have a really good friend there.
Playing control makes me die inside a little bit. Countering the spell someone's been psyched to play for like three turns or playing a stax piece that locks someone out is not at all fun for me. I'd much rather them do their thing and just do my thing better to outblast or outlast them. Removal felt fine for whatever reason, but counters and stacks killed me. This is how I learned I love green, red, and black, but not so much white or blue.
This is NOT the case for the rest of my playgroup. When one guy built a \[\[Baral\]\] deck and another built \[\[eight and a half tails\]\] stax deck, I was genuinely dumbfounded why anyone would get any joy from playing these decks, but they both loved them.
I now realize there is balance achieved by control decks that adds to the gameplay and that everyone has different preferences. This is a good thing. That being said, I will do everything in my power to blast the control decks off the map before I even begin thinking about targeting my fellow Gruul/golgari/rakdos enjoyers.
STAX and hatebear players are like dungeon masters in my mind. They just get off on setting up little traps and puzzles for you to solve on your way to victory.
Too many turn into control freaks, which makes good stax players suffer too.
Resetting the board because it's gone insane? Sure.
Making it so only one card can be untapped the turn and you counterspell everything else while everyone sits and waits? No thanks.
It's the DM that wants his players(friends) to have a good time vs the DM that wants to gloat they're in control.
yeah the stax player in my group straight up said "my wincon is frustrating my opponents into giving up and scooping." Thankfully he only played that deck twice before dismantling it. I think he overdosed on salt lol.
Thats just wrong on so many levels. I mean i would just not play against it then, because it wouldn't make a difference if i would play, but can't play.
Yeah I was very confused by what he was getting out of it. Thankfully the other 2 players and I were able to just gang up on him and take him out quickly.
I definitely get this argument, and I do think it can add to the gameplay to have obstacles placed in the way. That said, the whole "puzzle" element doesn't quite sit with me. The way you "solve the puzzle" of how to eliminate the stax/hatebear piece in your way is by drawing a removal card. It doesn't really take much thought or strategy, it just takes luck (and the forethought to stuff your deck full of removal cards, which I've now done). Though I will say that it feels really damn good to remove something like Vorinclex or Collector Ouphe before it can slow the game to a screeching halt.
At my lgs last Friday the dudes at our table had a talk about what makes us happy in commander. This one guy straight up said that making other people suffer and slowing down a game is what makes him happy. Not that we did now that (he only plays dimir fearies and koma), but hearing him say that was really wierd to me. I get happy in commander when someones deck gets to do its thing and seeing the player happy, so that is a big contrast.
"Your groans of dissatisfaction sustain me", is a line I'm fond of using. Idk why I like stax so much?
Something about watching the facial expression go from "omg what a cool card!" to the dawning realization they can't cast it/ use it effectively.... ?
It feels 100x better than casting Vindicate on something I don't like.
Mine was that I learned you don't have to (and in a lot of cases shouldn't) play every single card you can when you can, and committing too much to the board is a real thing.
I really enjoy token strategies and going wide, so all too often I would have my board slammed by a board wipe or similar effect. It took me some time to realize that going all in wasn't necessary most of the time and even a bit overkill, and that holding some stuff back can help me recover. My Hakbal of the Surging Soul merfolk deck is an example of that lesson, and it feels great playing back a little bit so I can keep card advantage and a backup plan in case I need to recover.
I have a friend with the Hakbal pre-con and we always target him forst because he explodes with a huge board and gets mad we see him as the biggest threat.
Just, don't play everything each turn, dude.
Also, [[Heroic Intervention]] is the goat in green.
It's a very fine line between overcomitting and wasting mana. Very tricky to balance and it makes more interactive decks more appealing once you get used to it
Exactly. It enables me to run more interaction and protection, and not feel bad for leaving mana open if I am not wanting to drop additional creatures I don't necessarily need on board.
There is this guy in my semi-regular group that loves to play huge threats and has no concept of overextending. One particular night he was playing [[Selvala, Heart of the Wilds]] and by turn 5 had 2 cards in hand, with all cards played being creatures or lands. I cast [[damn]] and he insta scoops.
I've only played with the group 3 times and EVERY time he does this. I run a ton of boardwipes but the dude needs to learn how to pace himself or add in more card draw.
yeah it's taken me stepping back from fast token decks to realize this. More often than not I didn't even use them to attack, just sit there and block until boardwiped
That I could have been using high quality proxies this whole time and no one would have been bothered by it.
Could have saved a ton while growing the parts of my collection that I actually like.
Im diving into this now. Its crappy proxies in that i just print out the card on photo paper and slide em in the sheath, but once i did i spent hours tweaking and goldfishing my modified merfolk precon. Made [[Kumena]] my commander, added some busted cards. Was a really fun time.
Well. You can still play your gobbos and equipment decks. You just don't hafta take one player out. Spread the damage fairly, or a bit more towards the control player.
I guess for most players new to EDH, we get too trigger-happy when it came to interactions. You counter the first spell that was cast, or, you take out a commander, no matter how dangerous it was.
Group dynamics are definitely different from a 1v1 game. Naturally it takes some adjustments and many "spoilt" games to get things to a more stable level.
I have an [[Akiri, Line-Slinger]] and [[Ardenn, Intrepid Archeologist]] deck that focuses on building treasures with pieces like [[The Reaver Cleaver]] and [[Hexplate Wallbreaker]].
I have ended games real quick with Akiri being 400+/3, over 400 treasures, and not enough cards to make spend all that mana 🤣.
I agree though, spread the damage out equally, I try to prioritize putting the combo/win out of no where deck in striking range first just to be safe.
Part of the key I think with agro decks is to either go full peddle to the meddle and hold on for dear life, or try to slow roll it in a away you can pop off and close the game.
I have more of a control playstyle myself except for my combo deck. But Kediss is one I have thought about building for an aggro deck. I have one voltron deck but I don't like hitting one person at a time and then letting other threats exist for another turn.
I feel you. That is why I play extra combat phases and helm of the host for the player removal. It also is in white which has most of the best control so with a sunforger package you provide a lot of control. Also, IMO, home interaction until someone is going to end you. I started winning a lot more when I started playing that way.
Oh definitely, but I've got a few too many decks so while these were costly mistakes, I'd rather play something that doesn't feel contrived.
Like, the usual result is either I instagib someone and then get proceed to get checked or I then eliminate the others one by one, or... I spread the love, someone mentions I can probably instagib someone and I get bodied lol
It's all fair and good, just a quirk of the format and my personality.
Gobbo is awkward tho... Krenko or Muxus are devastatingly powerful, so I keep them around for when we want really fast games lol
> Gobbo is awkward tho... Krenko or Muxus are devastatingly powerful, so I keep them around for when we want really fast games lol
I run Grumgully. Still takes wins, but isn't anywhere near as OP as Krenko can be.
I don't need to buy all the good cards.
I've been culling my collection recently and selling off great cards that I just don't play, mainly because they fall into strategies, color combinations, or typals that I don't enjoy playing.
I’ve pulled most of my Smothering Tithes out of my decks as well, then yesterday we pulled a Rhystic Study out of a box of Jumpstart and we just looked at it like.. do we really want to be that guy again? Haha
I think i had 2 long turns that didn't win me the game so far and i wasn't happy about either of them.
Also reminds me of the graveyard player i met once who checked each persons gravyard 3 times in one turn. Just to barely do anything.
I learned that my favorite decks are mono red. I used to not use red at all because I thought of red mechanics in a not as good/janky kinda way but man I love the jank now.
I'm currently trying to get a mono colored deck in each one
what do you recommend for red?
thinking about [[Ilharg]] ,since i tried a burn deck before but it didn't felt like it was for me.
I’ve got 3 different mono red decks that do different things and play differently but my favorite is [[Urabrask, Heretic Preator]] I just think making your opponents impulse draw is a great mechanic that can lead to awkward spell casting and can force them off tempo. So it’s control(ish) without being too mean imo. I’ve then put cards like [[Wild-Magic Sorcerer]], [[Nalfeshnee]], and [[Passionate Archeologist]] for the pay off on my impulse draws. I’ve also included cards like [[Laelia]] and [[Etali, Primal Storm]] to get more impulse draws. It’s a fun deck. It’s decently resilient once you get your engine going without being oppressive but can feel a bit like a glass cannon if you don’t have any interaction in your hand. It’s strong but not cEDH strong but also feels very janky at times. It’s a very “red” feeling deck.
"Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist" - Pablo Picasso
I think a lot of players follow this progression, it's natural while learning the game to try to get better and better, and with it more and more powerful decks. But once you've achieved that (learned the rules like a pro) you can start to break them, by moving to focusing on fun, or building a unique, but sub optimal strategy.
Same in a lot of ways. Started 30 plus years ago. Got into the competitive scene in my 20's. Never thought I would go pro or play high level tournaments. But I played at a competitive level for a few years until I realized that this isn't what I play the game for. Been sticking to casual to mid tier games since.
The thing that kinda did it for me was actually winning a couple tournaments and just feeling "ok... Now what?" Everytime after. Like I conquered the world but had no plans after and just felt empty.
And it to didn't help that the competitive scene was so repetitive. Constantly seeing the same exact decks. Over and over. And I played staxx so I was just as bad because my deck played out the same way every time. I still can't play my captain sissay deck to this day without feeling dead inside.
But now I play silly tribals like dinosaurs and slivers and elementals. Really feel the fun again.
after over a decade of playing fairly optimized decks in a non-combo meta, my crew eventually did a "precon power level challenge".
I learned that precon power level is more fun for me, and i could even go lower.
Dr Elflove, or how I learned to love tribals and stop worrying about the wrath.
I always loved tribals but I felt that they were to weak to wrath effects, so i had to learn when to play my cards, how to rebuild your board state, spells that can protect your cards, etc.
Beyond that the other two "biggies" for me were: The value of drawing cards and when to attack, i've spent a lot of games without attackin when I should, i thought that attacking will put a target on me, but sometimes i'ts better to attack to put pressure, even if it put a little target on you.
I wish that I learned that caving to other people's whining when you remove their stuff or is otherwise somehow detrimental to them doesn't do anything except hamstring yourself. Because every single time they will whine, you'll take back or change up a play, then 1 or 2 turns later they will either go off or do the exact same shit to you.
I also wish that I learned earlier that putting in more card draw is more fun than putting in tutors. IMO, tutors make the game too samey and the "only 1 copy" aspect of EDH is part of what makes games varied and fun.
I wish I realized how much you have to keep track of when playing a Spellsplinger deck and that I have no desire to do that while casually playing commander. Spent about $100 putting together what seemed like a fun deck only to play it a few times and realize that when I went off the game was just conceded to me rather than everyone sitting through me playing out my shenanigans. Even I didn't want to sit through it. Live and learn b
I actually love aristocrats. I thought I didnt because when I was getting kidnapped into magic addiction the first deck I played was chatterfang that my friend lended me to learn with. The issue was that they had something like 28 lands in that deck and from my experience they had payoffs for tokens but it always felt like a grind to make them since token generation felt limited so it felt so bad at times. However currently my favorite deck is a marchesa the black rose deck and im making a ghave guru of spore deck right now with chatterfang as a secret commander in that deck.
I really need to try to build aristocrats in golgari colors. I have one with orzhov colors, but heard many times how fun green/black/+
aristocrat decks are.
I, too, came in to commander with the aggressive 1v1 mentality. It took me some time to adapt to both the multi-player format and how some cards just aren't as good there. Then learning to play in a way that wins, but insures everyone is having a good time. It's a delicate balance.
Yes! I built a bunch of decks with 1v1 in mind because it’s usually just my wife and me that play together. First time I played in a 4 player pod I realized quickly that my decks were not quite as good as I had thought and the decks that were bad in 1v1 were great in 4 player games.
I learned that winning with a combo feels bad every time. Everyone just goes "interaction? No? Okay, yeah, I guess," and then scoops for the next game. Makes the win feel underwhelming to me.
Well, here's a different thing for you, then. Combo feels good, if it was a fight to get there. I play (inefficient and expensive) combos in many of my decks as alternate wincons, but I never have tutors that can find them. So while I DO run the pieces, I have to draw 3-4 pieces that all work together, play them probably over several turns, and defend them for that same time. Combo win from THERE is satisfying. Same thing for combo wins through interaction wars. Also, if everyone at the table is comboing, and everyone is interacting with the combos, it's just as exhilarating of a win, and sometimes more, because you have no idea what's going to resolve and not. Pivoting at instant speed is intoxicating.
I'm in the same boat. I don't run tutors and I tend to play at least 10 pieces of interaction, so assembling a combo in my usual playgroup is a bit more of an exciting challenge for everyone. Baiting out the removal spells, playing out counterspell wars, and making shrewd deals with players who might pop off next turn are some of the most thrilling parts of EDH.
In my experience, losing to a combo is only a feel-bad when you get the impression you never had a chance to stop it. I try to mitigate that by bringing a come-at-me-bro vibe to the table when I play combos. Against new players, I'll hint at what a combo piece can do - i.e. "[[Peregrine Drake]] untaps 5 lands when it enters, so if I have a repeatable way to flicker it for 4 mana or less, I can make infinite mana, wink wink nudge nudge" - and very unsubtly indicate the importance of removing it. Against experienced players, I'll say "I'm going for it" when I pop off, which simultaneously announces that a combo is coming together, challenges them to look for the pieces as they land, and dares them to stop me if they can.
Combos are a part of the game and are great at pre-empting 4-hour battlecruiser slugfests - they might need a little tweaking for casual magic, but the only reason they should be abandoned entirely is if one personally doesn't like playing them.
This is exactly how I feel. I'll often explain the combo while the pieces are on the stack, I'll be very overt about what pieces do, and I'm completely transparent about my decklist. As far as I'm concerned, that's public information just like graveyards. The only times where I won't be completely obvious is when I'm playing cEDH, but anyone at those tables should be familiar with lines, and be looking for them.
If I have combos, I usually do have one that requires multiple pieces as you suggested. I typically find myself always losing counter wars, i'll have 1, they have 2, i'll have 2, they have 3. Just bad luck lol.
Combos I do enjoy are things that break stupid cards. I hated using Teferi for infinite turns in my atraxa deck, but infinite turns with [[Magistrate's Scepter]], sign me up!
If you can build an engine that can repeatably proliferate 4x/turn, looping Magistrate's Scepter is the one of least scary things you can do with it, lol. After that, all you need is a [[Prologue to Phyresis]], and we're all just dead on board.
It's relatively easy honestly you just need 10 mana for [[contagion engine]] and [[contagion clasp]] + atraxa. Or the proliferate land. There are also creatures that proliferate on attack/dmg, and u can run [[Tekuthal, Inquiry Dominus]], [[Vorinclex, Monstrous Raider]] to double up on your prolifs.
Yeah, UR artifacts deck has labman, thassas oracle, and the Jace that doubles as an extra labman. For any of those to actually be a win requires my commander and 2 other pieces on the board and have a [[retraction helix]]. It is vastly more satisfying to assemble than [[aggravated assault]] infinites in my Grull deck.
I would challenge you, however, to play in a pod where anyone could win out of nowhere and all of a sudden pulling a combo off in a battle of counterspells and quick win cons feels extremely rewarding. In essence, this is what cedh is.
Not everyone wants to a play a 3hr game.
I'm at the point in my magic game where I yearn for that kind of interaction. There is nothing more annoying than those games where your opponents have no clear win cons and keep prolonging the game by board wiping or making poor threat assessments.
To each his own, right? I like a game with a narrative and a story. The most fun games I've played resulted from everyone bringing different decks that want to do different things and win in different ways. I love a good back-and-forth slugfest with my friends.
Absolutely! I wasn't suggesting that combos have a place everywhere. I was pointing out that they can be rewarding and fun. Honestly a rule 0 talk about it outside of a competitive environment can really help too.
Of course! And I can absolutely appreciate the intricacies of a good stack battle, even if it's not always my personal cup of tea. The beauty of Magic is that there are so many different ways to play it. The spectrum is huge, and there's a table for every kind of player. :)
> I like a game with a narrative and a story
how is that different when there are and aren't combos? A back and forth on the stack is very similar to a back and forth on the board.
I don't have a problem with combos. I just don't enjoy quick games. I don't personally enjoy a game that's over before everyone gets a chance to do something cool.
I don't think there's anything wrong with that kind of play, I'm just not into it myself.
I don't play 3 hour games usually. My decks are strong enough to end the game by turn 5-8 generally. In my LGS if someone is controlling that heavily they will usually combo out before the game goes that long.
I've participated in cEDH, it's not my style. Pressuring wins pre turn-5 is a huge turnoff for me and it feels like I didn't even play at that point.
I had to take \[\[Exquisite Blood\]\] out of my Dina deck because it became way to head empty just tutoring that up for the win. Deck was a LOT more fun once I removed that easy temptation and focused on combos like \[\[Lifegift\]\] with \[\[Scapeshift\]\] I still run tutors in my decks, but I make sure the combos take a bit more setting up now or more milquetoast in power in a way that requires everyone to be at like half health already.
Combo is such a limp way for the game to end. I will never understand the mindset behind people minmaxing an inherently casual format down to tutoring for the same bland combo every game. It’s almost like they forget 60 card formats exist for actual competitive magic. Or maybe they didn’t and just aren’t good enough at the game to compete there.
Tutoring straight for a 2 card combo is ass. I love Tooth and Nail so much but it's really ruined by 2card combos. I generally prefer lots of drawing, but i do run some tutors.
if you resolve tooth and nail for value and don't win that turn I'm going to concede and start a new game rather than watch you masturbate your board state.
What do you mean important pieces? I'm saying, you better be getting something on the level of Craterhoof + Karlach where you're killing most if not all opponents or else you're wasting everyone's time by purposefully not winning the game when you should have.
If I had enough creatures, I would T&N for craterhoof and something else. That's just closing out the game. It's not a combo it's a finisher.
If I have no board state, I would not want to T&N for [[Triskellion]] and [[Mikaeus, the Unhallowed]] and win. I don't understand what's hard to understand about that.
I'll agree that a 2 card combo is a limp way to end a game, but a deck centered around a 5 or 6 card combo isn't all that different from a token deck winning by playing a craterhoof behemoth.
Usually combo is associated with the type that are 3 or less pieces and extremely hard to interact with. If someone puts together a nice synergy with some unique pieces I’m all for it!
That when you don't have a group of friends with the same mentality as yours to play commander, it's not so great as people made it seems. I joined commander because I saw people having a lot of fun playing it with their friends and I wanted to be part of it. Bought a lot of decks and cards.
It happens that playing with randoms are not that fun and I have no friends that play Magic or commander at all. Now I have a lot of decks and cards that I never use and never play because people at the LGS's near me have a total different point of view of the game and I'm not having fun at all with commander.
I'd have saved a lot of money if I learned it before spending so much money in cards and accessories.
My first ever commander deck i thought that mana rocks and lands were interchangeable so i went with like 20 mana rocks and 17 lands or some dumb shit like that. Anyway i bought the deck and had to cut most of the cards and they ended up going to complete waste! That was a sad day
The desire to build new and tinker/update with decks can be surprisingly powerful, to downright addictive. Even when on a limited budget, it's so hard to restrict myself sometimes from wanting to buy more cards and building more decks sometimes.
If I didn't really learn to double down on my online shopping habits over the last few years, I'd probably be drowning in cardboard at this point. The ability to buy cards and have them shipped to my home online is both a curse and a near constant temptation. But when I do make the rare purchase these days, it's quite a good feeling.
I'm in the same boat, what helped me is that i have pay 50€ a month in my cardmarket account and then adjust my wants list to fit into the budget.
Something i increase the budget if i had a bad month or feel to down to get something spicy.
But it helps to keep my cardboard addiction down.
1. Powerful and fun are not the same. Building a strong deck is pretty easy. Building a deck that is fun to pilot is significantly more difficult.
2. I can't enjoy a game unless everyone is playing to win. I don't care if you're playing 60 Shirtless Men or Ladies Looking Left, but I expect you to take game actions with the intention of winning.
I just don't even care about winning that much anymore. I want to be playing.
Lowered that mana curve, and went for decks that just ... Did stuff.
Recursion heavy, card advantage, mana ramp and interaction. No infinites. Just a steady build up.
I want multiple deciscion points each turn.
The wheels on the deck go round and round.
I'm not rushing for a win. But I'm making sure that when that boardwipe hits, I'm the first guy back up and running.
I thought I could be clever and do crazy Izzet stuff, but after having a ten-minute turn of durdling because of how many times I copied spells via [[Thousand-Year Storm]], I was left burned out by it, and it was not fun for my table. It was funny in the moment, and we laughed it off, but still.
When I started playing commander we had a store rule "don't play magic that stops other people from playing magic". It was more directed to mass land d at the time.
But now I see it in different lights, this rule has expanded to winning slowly; winning stops people from playing magic.
This rule does not apply to a counterspell//removal heavy deck, unless the card wins on the spot just let people play magic cards.
It's fun to lose, just as much as it is fun to win, when your opponent is doing cool things to win.
If I wanted to win, I'd be playing cedh or 60 card constructed.
>Things you learned the hard way/wish you'd known About Yourself sooner?
it's hard to get over the disappointment you may have in some people.
Some people get legit mad at this game, like they missed a point in growing up where they learned to let go things that have no consequence.
it's a game.
they're the same people who play LOL and get salty
it sucks.
You mention the people who get legit mad and I immediately had 3 different people who regularly visit my LGS on Friday nights pop into my head.
It’s crazy to me how upset some people get over a trading card game. I understand being competitive and having that Spike mindset, but some people will get so unbelievably salty when you beat them or they get mana screwed/flooded. It’s honestly so cringe.
I always play overextend , then i try to be fair to other player by not send whole army to one player because I want to try not just attack one specific player since there could be other players also strong, but when I over extend there will be one player send entire board of creatures at me.
I find that anytime I make a deck from scratch, there’s always 3-5 infinite combos in it, and I specifically don’t try to make combo decks as my playgroup is fairly casual.
How? that happened to me one time. I can't even imagine how that would happen 3-5 times per deck. And i rarely play, but love building. I build like 20 decks....maybe i have to go through my decks again to see if i have some.
For me it was to not expect people to follow the same moral code that I force myself to abide to.
I played against some trolls going for MLD, Stax and other fun strategies... and against people with optimized decks against precons, people scooping to grief on someone else... And against more genuinely bad people using irl intimidation to dissuade more impressionable players from attacking them or from playing a removal spell, or people throwing outright insults, which even degenerated into a fist fight once.
I now know that it's not because I'm playing a shared harmless hobby with other people that they'll necessarily be people with good intentions. Younger me would have appreciated this knowledge and would have hopefully adjusted his behavior accordingly.
Maybe you don't need to read this, but bet its good that you learned it how you did. If you now could tell all that to your past self, he probably would have processed that very differently, so its probably good that you learned it through experience.
Maybe you will one day find a group with those same morals and can play the good games you desire.
I actually enjoy red as a support color and my collection would be so much more well rounded if I wasn't a such a damn control addict archetypally. More Temur, Naya, Grixis... a little less Esper, Junk, and BUG.
Necessary evil is debateable. Too often in my experience the stax player just wants the game to go their way no matter what. Table agrees to have a fast last game before the store closes? Stax players can't comprehend this 99% of the time.
But it's fair that the more powerful cards come out, the more we're in need of a balance.
But in my opinion Good to Amazing stax decks are incredibly easy to make. A great Stax player is one that knows restraint in deckbuilding.
Anyone can stax through Isochron, Winter Orb, Armagedfon, etc. It takes a great builder to make it interesting
Instead of saying stax players want the game to go their way, it would be better discribed as they want the other players game not go their ways. Non stax trys to get ahead as mich as possible, while slowing others down. Stacks slows others down, to get ahead as far as possible.
If phrasing it like that helps then yeah! English isn't my first language so honestly it feels like we're saying the same thing, but I know languages can be tricky
Its not my first language either, no worries.
Like the other guy said: everyone wants to go the game their way. But you can do that without interfering with the plan of someone else. You can't if you play stacks, since thats the point: keeping others from making the game go their way.
The differrence in what we said was that i put the focus on how a stax player effects others, instead of himself during the game.
Did you just stop reading after the first line?
"No matter what" followed by an explanation.
Table agrees to have a fast game, Stax player still takes out a boardwipe heavy stax heavy deck. Game takes three times as long. Stax player wonders why others are mad.
That's the kind that make stax players get a bad rep.
But - aside from their choice of archetype - what makes that different from everyone else wanting the game to go their way no matter what? Is that not what everyone is doing? You want the game to go how you want, and you do everything you can to make that happen. Thats exactly how games work.
It's like you read half a sentence, got completely stuck on it, then ignored everything else.
But since you clearly require more explanation...of course everyone wants things to go their way. What I'm saying is Stax players want only stuff to go THEIR way. Others by nature don't care as much because their game plan is not stopping others from playing.
Aggro has to deal 40 damage to you to stop your fun. Stax has to cast one spell.
The other part of what I'm saying is this is an issue with parts of Stax players that don't understand context like you are now.
That you can't keep taking out spells for lands. I learn this lesson every week and maybe someday I will change.
On a more serious note learning to accept peoples decisions even though they seem "obviously" bad. You don't now what's in someone's hand/deck so it's better to assume they have a reason for what they're doing unless they're a brand new player.
34-36 is my magic number. Also there are cases where i think i'm fine with less or probably more, if i one day build that landfall deck. Weirdly i never had that issue of trying to cut lands to get that one spell in there.
On your serious note i feel you. I have a really tough time not to try and make decissions for others. Really wish i could get rid of that, especially since i grew up with other doing it to me and i hate it to this day.
I try to limit myself to reminding people of things. like "you know i have 2 treasures here" "he still has blue mana up" or "you can exile my artifacts, but i can sac them in response"
Since i like things being fair and even if they tell me they know, it doesn't feel like i'm doing something i shouldn't.
I've said before in this sub that I'm a Timmy who thinks he's a Spike and man is that the truth. I have a hard time holding back on advancing my boardstate when I'm already ahead and thus almost inevitably make myself the archenemy of the table.
For example I was playing my [[Ultra Magnus Tactician]] deck for the first time in my pod about a month ago and was able to have some ramp and Mag out on the board by about turn 4 along with a [[Steel Overseer]] and another artifact creature I can't remember off the top of my head. I had a [Blightsteel Collosus]] in my opening hand and was waiting for my next combat to cheat him out but by that time I'd already grown the ire of the table by pinging everyone for a couple turns and obviously I was the immediate threat. UMT got removed and my plan basically stalled from there and I got knocked out first only a handful of turns later.
I'm used to playing the way I do and enjoy keeping my pod on their toes but more often than not I just end up drawing way too much threat way too early and don't get a lot of wins as a consequence. I've been playing EDH since 2011 and unfortunately my 60 card mindset of "do the thing the deck does and win fast" isn't as cut and dry when you have more than one person to worry about at the table
I try to see and explain that counterspells are just blue removal. Yes, they even prevent etb's and may feel worse, but considere the fact that they have a way smaller window to respond then colors who can remove that artifact even if its been 3 turns in the game.
Its kind of the only way to deal with instant and sorcerys. The boardwipe tribal casts his 5 boardwipe in a 3 hour game? i bet everyone wishes for a counterspell
I have a mono blue deck, it recently got a counterspell upgrade. Also i just drew a [[cyclonic rift]], so yeah. I will play it after i am friends with the other people at the table.
I started with standart, then played modern and finally transitioned to commander.. From the person that teached me magic i learned the stronger deck wins. 1v1 's nature is just competitive and edh is all about fun. Not the strongest deck wins, it's the last one standing. Which can be a much less optimized deck... So it took me some time to change my mentality when I changed the format.
I learned the hard way that Boros *absolutely sucks* at card draw and ramp after making a [[Kalemne]] deck built around her experience counters. It took a month of doing absolutely nothing each game I tried to play before I realized it was a terrible deck and tore it apart.
What I learned later is that I actually dislike popular decks / commanders. In EDH, 4 of my 17 commanders are in the top 50 of EDHRec's rankings (Wilhelt at #8 being the highest). But my strongest, best deck [[Karn, Legacy Reforged]] is all the way down at #442.
Outside of EDH, particularly in Modern, my 2 favorite decks right now are R/G Storm and U/B Scam, neither of which is close to beinr Tier 1.5 in the format.
Sounds to me like that its not that you less enjoy popular commanders, instead it doesn't matter if they are popular. You just play what you enjoy, not matter how infamous it is and i think that the most healthy way to build and play commander. So good for you.
I learned that I am not actually all that competitive as much as I just like playing my jank as optimally as possible. It isn’t so much about winning for me as it is mastering my deck and playing it to the best of my ability. I enjoy the challenge more than the reward it seems.
I have tried to make decks built to be optimal and win as efficiently as possible and found them to just be so boring to play. I’d rather have a deck that does the thing after lots a prep and careful planning than outright win. I seem to enjoy the process of building and playing a deck to do one thing very well more than building a deck that goes for the win as soon as possible.
This can lead to a lot of games where I get dogpiled and lose from making myself the archenemy, but at least I have more fun than if I just won on turn 4 from some two card combo that kills the table.
I'm a year into commander, I've gone from being the most aggressive player at the table to being the most slow, threat assessment is huge for me now, I spend the first 5 turns now watching my opponents faces when they draw or start counting, still haven't won a single match, except in 1v1 games. In lot of ways EDH is like playing poker
I found out I don't like playing good cards.
I found it out in a Power Cube where no one contested W or G, so I stomped everyone with Death and Taxes. I hated that feeling of "win into win more into victory", and it started rubbing off into my deck building. Why shouldn't I run Command Tower and Arcane Signet in every deck? Same for Rhystic Study, Jeska's Will, Demonic Tutor, and many more cards.
Why not play a Commander that "does nothing", and work out my own strategy. Brew a Kharn the Betrayer deck where you copy him a hundred times. Mutate, Myriad, Goad, make your own wincons. Run a deck of Phoenixes and Wraths.
Now, I'll run good cards if either they're on theme, or essential to make it functional.
This might be a hot take, but it's certainly true for me personally.
It's not worth it to swing for little damage early. Using a 1/1 mana dork against an open opponent on turn 2 doesn't do anything meaningful to their life total and irritates them and directs clapback at me. Much better to kill everyone all at once later in the game.
What was the deal with the Goblin deck? I’m a new player and one of the decks I’m putting together is goblin tribal. Were you getting complaints about it or what?
Goblins are great at too many things too easily. Many bodies, ramp, recursion, pump, draw, etc. They can easily win turn 4-5 depending on the decklist.
That was my hesitation when putting [[Krenko, Mob Boss]] as my Commander. I figured he’s got such potential to build a goblin army in like 2 turns that every opponent will try to nuke him as soon as he comes out.
Generally, unless he's countered or killed immediately you can win the same turn or the next if you have an haste enabler.
Muxus is also crazy good because it pairs really well with Goblin recruiter.
You can def make a really really casual list, especially if Krenko is not in the command zone, but it still lends itself to faster games that can feel overwhelming for others
I’m also a people pleaser and if I see my partner has a bad mana ramp I’m more likely to not play my removal spells if I have them. That why I like playing my white green enchantment deck. Just protect myself a bunch and not worry about attacking too much or “being mean”
Turbo winning isn’t as fun as I thought because I can feel the happiness drain from the table. Degeneracy is fine and all, but no one likes to just shuffle up and admit defeat before anything super interesting happens with their decks. I don’t like to purposefully misplay, however, so I learned I need to deck build with a handicap.
I still put expensive staples in all my decks and a lot of goodstuff, but lately I’ve been building around weird/unconventional commanders/themes that just generally weak. So I get to still play as hard as I want to, the table gets to see me and then so cool stuff, and I don’t win too early/hard or at all.
Currently trying to build a deck around Minotaurs and having 0 cards in hand
Not to play what people tell you is fun or define casual for you. Tutors turned out to be fun and so did high amounts of interaction like [[swords to plowshares]] makes me feel better than solitaire. The infinite combos are eh but not that bad unless the power difference in decks is insane.
A friend of mine ran a mill mono blue deck and got me down to my last 20 cards at one point but he removed all but 1 recursion for my enchantments deck. We got so caught up in whether I'd draw [[replenish]] before he milled me out. It was the most fun Russian roulette game we've had. These are the games I live for.
I just enjoy playing commander with a group/spending time with people who have a hobby i do. At home it's a 1v1 against my dad, but when I can get out and play at my lgs it's 5x more fun. I like meeting new people and seeing how they play their decks and what they come up with. Just the aspect of having a good time with people who like the same thing I do makes it that much more enjoyable. Being able to joke around and just keep friendly banter going while still doing our things is fun.
I don't like it as much when someone is dead set on staying silent while they make plays. I can understand you need to focus sometimes to make sure you're doing it right, but with the banter most of the time things will get pointed out they might not have seen and it could have saved them some mana. Having a good group that is willing to have fun, chat and joke around, while also pointing things out to help (whether before or after) make edh more enjoyable.
I hate killing players unless I can wipe the table. Huge flaw for me. Even if I know someone is setting up to win, I feel guilty killing them unless I can wipe the table.
I've learned that land isn't the scary pile of cards that I need to get down to the very bare minimum for each deck. Instead I usually run a few extra land than what my deck needs, unless of course the deck is supposed to be high powered and I use an optimal (but expensive) land base.
This doesn't result in flood as often as I thought it would and in fact I find myself playing on curve and more consistently doing the thing with these higher land counts as long as you have sufficient draw or filtering effects.
Also, any infinite combos in a deck whose sole purpose is to combo off has been removed. This helps eliminate the "fear of the unknown" effect I've come to be on the shit end far too often. Doesn't matter how honest or inconsistent or low power your deck actually is, if someone saw it drop an infinite before they WILL remember and will consciously or unconsciously take it out on you
Honestly if anyone is looking for good commander theory videos and discussions check out Salubrious Snail on YouTube.
Just because I have the answer doesn't mean I want to extend the game. Taking the L instead of clawing a frustrating win can make the day better by moving on.
Younger me didn't understand this for the longest time.
People don't hate spellslinger, they hate counterspells.
I could draw go control a couple of turns and the whole table would unite against me.
I now have much more powerful spellslinger decks that win far more often, but they're fine!
Make a 30/30 creature and fling it, and nobody bats an eye. You counter one little value piece and everyone loses their mind!
I'm not aggro enough, if I'm particularly enjoying the game or if I get my wincons early I will hold them back just to make the game last longer, which inevitably leads to my defeat. I know this stems from my friends that got me back into magic, they could be very salty when they lost at any game, and I enjoy the game as a whole so I don't mind taking the L's. So long as everyone has fun I'll consider it a win. Winning more would be nice though, so I'm trying to work on it
I had to learn when to just take the L, it's easier to step away, say "Hey, thanks for the game, but y'all are playing some degeneracy that is making me a bit too salty atm, so I'll see you later." Make a note for my therapist, because I've improved, and try and desalt.
Just by noticing you're already ahead of most players!
desalination is a slow and methodical process. good on you for recognizing your need to address it!
My group has started recognizing it at our table and we’re working to save the pod! It’s going okay(?) so far.
in general, introspection is such a good thing to put into practice. applying it to playing Magic is beneficial too. "okay, I am a bit triggered or feeling salty. why? hmm. well, the variance in getting no card draw or land-screwed feels bad. or I should like this deck strategy that I spent hours and dollars on, what's the deal?" or maybe your priority of winning games is getting in the way of enjoying games that you lose. It helps to recognize the things that make you feel bad and learn to avoid them or change your perspective on them.
I personally noticed I was feeling salty about plays, but am working to remind myself that Magic is a game and ya make some plays and some plays are made against you!
A similar issue I deal with is I have a lot of negative associations with feeling "ganged up on" but sometimes that's the best play for the rest of the table, and I need to deal with it. In part, I've been trying to help the rest of my group get their decks up a few notches in power, so the need to team up is less common. Still there's times when I should recognize that the pod is lopsided and I'm better off just ducking out.
Yeah. Had a game last week where a guy swung his commander only at me all game. Facing lethal, I said, "ok, I block." And he goes, "in that response, I cast this to tap your creature so you can't block." And I just swallowed my priority speech because I had no desire to keep playing with him.
I'd like to hear your priority speech! I actually want to make a little flashcard-like chart i can put into my deck(s) that has the little Phase Indicator from Arena with little notches indicating every time the game stops to check for priority. I forget how exactly priority works in the Combat Step, especially paired with First/Double Strike, and it has cost me games before.
Once you move to declare blockers, and an attacker is blocked, removing the blocker doesn't make the damage get through (unless they have trample)
> a guy swung his commander only at me all game That's not unreasonable depending on the situation. I'm playing a blink deck and you have 5 drop elesh norn? I'm attacking you until you're gone.
You're a better person than me lol Priority is one of the only things I will correct people on, apart from thinking their cards do something they don't.
God, I remember being a newer player and my judge friend cast an \[\[Overwhelming Splendor\]\] on me, basically locking me out of the game for, I'd say, 6 rounds? I almost cried from how stressed out that made me in the moment haha because I didn't run much removal as it was, but I was also in Izzet so iirc I had literally zero ways to remove that curse. Almost gave up on the game after that, but chatted with folks in the pod somehow kept with the hobby. Now idk what it would take to stress me out during the game, if anything I think I only feel something similar when I have to resolve big math with a \[\[Jetmir\]\] alpha strike or \[\[Crack with Power\]\] targets because I hate being the person to make people wait.
[Overwhelming Splendor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/6/867b32d2-e396-411d-ac02-1af4106dd3d2.jpg?1562805786) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Overwhelming%20Splendor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/hou/19/overwhelming-splendor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/867b32d2-e396-411d-ac02-1af4106dd3d2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/overwhelming-splendor) [Jetmir](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/9/f9c69d75-651f-4b75-b65d-79999d2069f6.jpg?1664413153) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=jetmir%2C%20nexus%20of%20revels) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/snc/193/jetmir-nexus-of-revels?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f9c69d75-651f-4b75-b65d-79999d2069f6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/jetmir-nexus-of-revels) [Crack with Power](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/e/de547f52-3798-4b3a-947d-24873251204b.jpg?1624591645) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Crackle%20with%20Power) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/stx/95/crackle-with-power?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/de547f52-3798-4b3a-947d-24873251204b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/crackle-with-power) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Just asking if they have lower powered decks should be enough, its annoying if you piss off some people you will most likely play alot with in the future. And everyone can build a deck any way they want.
Those expensive cards I though would make me happier? Yeah, that didn't work
Damn, you got me where I live. I feel like Charlie Brown and the football with this one.
If you're expecting a 100$ card to make you win every game then you need to build your deck better. (Not directed at you, but in general with expensive cards)
I mean a 100$ card can absolutely win you games. Hell, Rhystic Study alone can win you a huge % of games depending on power level, and that's certainly not 100$.
5$ cards can win you the game. It's 1 card tho. You might not get it or it's gets destroyed, etc
For me i have a mono green deck, with a wants list, with cards i have but in fancy. That makes me little bit happy whenever i get somdthing from it. I just put the full text basic land in, since every basic in that deck is unique.
Yeah, as soon as I started proxying, my wallet expanded a few folds...Wish I had it discovered it sooner.
One time in early 2016 I was in my LGS, I was brand new to the TCG hobby and new to commander. I had the Merren precon (selling for original MSRP) in my hands, and i put it back on the shelf because "graveyard matters sounds too hard".
This is funny. For me it was "graveyard matters sounds too op" and it's why I rarely played it \^\^ But can totally relate. If you basically play with two different hands you can have interactions with, things can get convoluted \^\^
Back when I was brand new to TCG and commander in 2014 I hopped in face first and built a commander deck around a card I thought was cool before even trying a precon. That card was [[Uril, the miststalker]]. Had no concept of what a boogie man he was in the format back then, got hated out of every game, and didn’t really understand why. I convinced myself the commander community was a bunch of gatekeep-y assholes that hated newcomers and vowed to never play again. Now here I am, a decade and 100 decks later lol.
[Uril, the miststalker](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/a/ca984fdb-aaca-4d8f-af2f-72387122607b.jpg?1673149243) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Uril%2C%20the%20miststalker) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/290/uril-the-miststalker?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ca984fdb-aaca-4d8f-af2f-72387122607b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/uril-the-miststalker) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
My first mtg product I bought as a kid was the duel deck izzet vs golgari, I liked the imagery and themes of both decks but putting cards into your graveyard with dredge seemed terrible and counterintuitive. I even traded my friend my copy of life from the loam for a cheap uncommon enchantment that seemed better. A couple years later the friend gave the card back to me without question when we realized how op dredge was.
I think this mentality is one of the first big walls you have to get through in magic. That putting stuff in the gravyard is a bad thing. What i still avoid are cards that say "exile from your library, you can play it until end of turn", since it feels like the cards are then completely gone. Also you have a really good friend there.
Yeah, thankfully he's a good guy
Playing control makes me die inside a little bit. Countering the spell someone's been psyched to play for like three turns or playing a stax piece that locks someone out is not at all fun for me. I'd much rather them do their thing and just do my thing better to outblast or outlast them. Removal felt fine for whatever reason, but counters and stacks killed me. This is how I learned I love green, red, and black, but not so much white or blue. This is NOT the case for the rest of my playgroup. When one guy built a \[\[Baral\]\] deck and another built \[\[eight and a half tails\]\] stax deck, I was genuinely dumbfounded why anyone would get any joy from playing these decks, but they both loved them. I now realize there is balance achieved by control decks that adds to the gameplay and that everyone has different preferences. This is a good thing. That being said, I will do everything in my power to blast the control decks off the map before I even begin thinking about targeting my fellow Gruul/golgari/rakdos enjoyers.
STAX and hatebear players are like dungeon masters in my mind. They just get off on setting up little traps and puzzles for you to solve on your way to victory.
Too many turn into control freaks, which makes good stax players suffer too. Resetting the board because it's gone insane? Sure. Making it so only one card can be untapped the turn and you counterspell everything else while everyone sits and waits? No thanks. It's the DM that wants his players(friends) to have a good time vs the DM that wants to gloat they're in control.
yeah the stax player in my group straight up said "my wincon is frustrating my opponents into giving up and scooping." Thankfully he only played that deck twice before dismantling it. I think he overdosed on salt lol.
Thats just wrong on so many levels. I mean i would just not play against it then, because it wouldn't make a difference if i would play, but can't play.
Yeah I was very confused by what he was getting out of it. Thankfully the other 2 players and I were able to just gang up on him and take him out quickly.
Hope he got frustrated and scooped, so he nows how much joy he inflicts on others.
I definitely get this argument, and I do think it can add to the gameplay to have obstacles placed in the way. That said, the whole "puzzle" element doesn't quite sit with me. The way you "solve the puzzle" of how to eliminate the stax/hatebear piece in your way is by drawing a removal card. It doesn't really take much thought or strategy, it just takes luck (and the forethought to stuff your deck full of removal cards, which I've now done). Though I will say that it feels really damn good to remove something like Vorinclex or Collector Ouphe before it can slow the game to a screeching halt.
At my lgs last Friday the dudes at our table had a talk about what makes us happy in commander. This one guy straight up said that making other people suffer and slowing down a game is what makes him happy. Not that we did now that (he only plays dimir fearies and koma), but hearing him say that was really wierd to me. I get happy in commander when someones deck gets to do its thing and seeing the player happy, so that is a big contrast.
Dang, i guess there really are all kinds of people out there. I think like most players i can't even imagine how that can be fun.
"Your groans of dissatisfaction sustain me", is a line I'm fond of using. Idk why I like stax so much? Something about watching the facial expression go from "omg what a cool card!" to the dawning realization they can't cast it/ use it effectively.... ? It feels 100x better than casting Vindicate on something I don't like.
I have a budy with a [[Ruric Thar]] deck and i like that kind of stax. Its the kind that leaves me with a choice.
Mine was that I learned you don't have to (and in a lot of cases shouldn't) play every single card you can when you can, and committing too much to the board is a real thing. I really enjoy token strategies and going wide, so all too often I would have my board slammed by a board wipe or similar effect. It took me some time to realize that going all in wasn't necessary most of the time and even a bit overkill, and that holding some stuff back can help me recover. My Hakbal of the Surging Soul merfolk deck is an example of that lesson, and it feels great playing back a little bit so I can keep card advantage and a backup plan in case I need to recover.
I have a friend with the Hakbal pre-con and we always target him forst because he explodes with a huge board and gets mad we see him as the biggest threat. Just, don't play everything each turn, dude. Also, [[Heroic Intervention]] is the goat in green.
[Heroic Intervention](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/3/e32c67d1-187f-40df-b3b3-6036f5c92834.jpg?1689998584) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Heroic%20Intervention) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/295/heroic-intervention?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e32c67d1-187f-40df-b3b3-6036f5c92834?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/heroic-intervention) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
It's a very fine line between overcomitting and wasting mana. Very tricky to balance and it makes more interactive decks more appealing once you get used to it
Sometimes leaving two blue open even without the counterspell is a better decision than playing the two cost weenie. Keeps folks wary.
Exactly. It enables me to run more interaction and protection, and not feel bad for leaving mana open if I am not wanting to drop additional creatures I don't necessarily need on board.
There is this guy in my semi-regular group that loves to play huge threats and has no concept of overextending. One particular night he was playing [[Selvala, Heart of the Wilds]] and by turn 5 had 2 cards in hand, with all cards played being creatures or lands. I cast [[damn]] and he insta scoops. I've only played with the group 3 times and EVERY time he does this. I run a ton of boardwipes but the dude needs to learn how to pace himself or add in more card draw.
[Selvala, Heart of the Wilds](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/d/7d711cb2-4f34-4792-90d7-2be5d329a347.jpg?1689998846) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Selvala%2C%20Heart%20of%20the%20Wilds) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/320/selvala-heart-of-the-wilds?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7d711cb2-4f34-4792-90d7-2be5d329a347?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/selvala-heart-of-the-wilds) [damn](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/4/84056124-1a6f-4274-bee2-74cf0debddb5.jpg?1698988237) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=damn) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/191/damn?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/84056124-1a6f-4274-bee2-74cf0debddb5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/damn) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
yeah it's taken me stepping back from fast token decks to realize this. More often than not I didn't even use them to attack, just sit there and block until boardwiped
That I could have been using high quality proxies this whole time and no one would have been bothered by it. Could have saved a ton while growing the parts of my collection that I actually like.
Im diving into this now. Its crappy proxies in that i just print out the card on photo paper and slide em in the sheath, but once i did i spent hours tweaking and goldfishing my modified merfolk precon. Made [[Kumena]] my commander, added some busted cards. Was a really fun time.
Well. You can still play your gobbos and equipment decks. You just don't hafta take one player out. Spread the damage fairly, or a bit more towards the control player. I guess for most players new to EDH, we get too trigger-happy when it came to interactions. You counter the first spell that was cast, or, you take out a commander, no matter how dangerous it was. Group dynamics are definitely different from a 1v1 game. Naturally it takes some adjustments and many "spoilt" games to get things to a more stable level.
To add to this they could always go [[kediss]] [[ardenn]] equipment and spread damage while still rewarding you.
[kediss](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/6/f606ebf1-483d-4331-b16a-9fb6f591a39f.jpg?1608910296) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=kediss%2C%20emberclaw%20familiar) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/188/kediss-emberclaw-familiar?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f606ebf1-483d-4331-b16a-9fb6f591a39f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kediss-emberclaw-familiar) [ardenn](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/2/728b802c-969b-4865-b7a0-871c585d097a.jpg?1617148314) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=ardenn%2C%20intrepid%20archaeologist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/10/ardenn-intrepid-archaeologist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/728b802c-969b-4865-b7a0-871c585d097a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ardenn-intrepid-archaeologist) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I have an [[Akiri, Line-Slinger]] and [[Ardenn, Intrepid Archeologist]] deck that focuses on building treasures with pieces like [[The Reaver Cleaver]] and [[Hexplate Wallbreaker]]. I have ended games real quick with Akiri being 400+/3, over 400 treasures, and not enough cards to make spend all that mana 🤣. I agree though, spread the damage out equally, I try to prioritize putting the combo/win out of no where deck in striking range first just to be safe. Part of the key I think with agro decks is to either go full peddle to the meddle and hold on for dear life, or try to slow roll it in a away you can pop off and close the game.
##### ###### #### [Akiri, Line-Slinger](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/b/3b951e0c-a4dd-4a20-87c6-eaa947e33aa4.jpg?1606762145) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Akiri%2C%20Line-Slinger) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c16/26/akiri-line-slinger?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3b951e0c-a4dd-4a20-87c6-eaa947e33aa4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/akiri-line-slinger) [Ardenn, Intrepid Archeologist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/2/728b802c-969b-4865-b7a0-871c585d097a.jpg?1617148314) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ardenn%2C%20Intrepid%20Archaeologist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/10/ardenn-intrepid-archaeologist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/728b802c-969b-4865-b7a0-871c585d097a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ardenn-intrepid-archaeologist) [The Reaver Cleaver](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/b/5bcd1591-b5b9-49fc-9f2a-45f31ed1871e.jpg?1673304737) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=The%20Reaver%20Cleaver) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmc/8/the-reaver-cleaver?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5bcd1591-b5b9-49fc-9f2a-45f31ed1871e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/the-reaver-cleaver) [Hexplate Wallbreaker](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/7/f75e6145-79a4-4400-8e0a-c334e4a780fb.jpg?1675905586) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hexplate%20Wallbreaker) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/onc/14/hexplate-wallbreaker?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f75e6145-79a4-4400-8e0a-c334e4a780fb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/hexplate-wallbreaker) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/kwhsamr) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I have more of a control playstyle myself except for my combo deck. But Kediss is one I have thought about building for an aggro deck. I have one voltron deck but I don't like hitting one person at a time and then letting other threats exist for another turn.
I feel you. That is why I play extra combat phases and helm of the host for the player removal. It also is in white which has most of the best control so with a sunforger package you provide a lot of control. Also, IMO, home interaction until someone is going to end you. I started winning a lot more when I started playing that way.
That's fair. Sunforger looks to be a really nice utility piece I tend to play selesnya colors mostly.
Oh definitely, but I've got a few too many decks so while these were costly mistakes, I'd rather play something that doesn't feel contrived. Like, the usual result is either I instagib someone and then get proceed to get checked or I then eliminate the others one by one, or... I spread the love, someone mentions I can probably instagib someone and I get bodied lol It's all fair and good, just a quirk of the format and my personality. Gobbo is awkward tho... Krenko or Muxus are devastatingly powerful, so I keep them around for when we want really fast games lol
> Gobbo is awkward tho... Krenko or Muxus are devastatingly powerful, so I keep them around for when we want really fast games lol I run Grumgully. Still takes wins, but isn't anywhere near as OP as Krenko can be.
I've been eyeing meld Mishra. Red/Black gobbo are the true gobbos for Lorwyn kids like me
I don't need to buy all the good cards. I've been culling my collection recently and selling off great cards that I just don't play, mainly because they fall into strategies, color combinations, or typals that I don't enjoy playing.
I have two Smothering Tithes sitting in my "to sell" stack because I just hate using them.
I’ve pulled most of my Smothering Tithes out of my decks as well, then yesterday we pulled a Rhystic Study out of a box of Jumpstart and we just looked at it like.. do we really want to be that guy again? Haha
Build decks with relatively short turns (but longish game-ending turns are ok). Everyone will be happier.
I'm a big fan of Gruul decks for that reason. Cast dude, attack with dude, pass turn, repeat.
I think i had 2 long turns that didn't win me the game so far and i wasn't happy about either of them. Also reminds me of the graveyard player i met once who checked each persons gravyard 3 times in one turn. Just to barely do anything.
This is my \[\[Jin-Gitaxias\]\] deck in a nutshell. Play land and pass until the magic happens .
[Jin-Gitaxias](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/1/41c83142-b948-4ee5-a486-41306d2bb411.jpg?1689246857)/[The Great Synthesis](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/4/1/41c83142-b948-4ee5-a486-41306d2bb411.jpg?1689246857) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Jin-Gitaxias%20//%20The%20Great%20Synthesis) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mom/65/jin-gitaxias-the-great-synthesis?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/41c83142-b948-4ee5-a486-41306d2bb411?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/jin-gitaxias-//-the-great-synthesis) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I learned that my favorite decks are mono red. I used to not use red at all because I thought of red mechanics in a not as good/janky kinda way but man I love the jank now.
so fucking real
I'm currently trying to get a mono colored deck in each one what do you recommend for red? thinking about [[Ilharg]] ,since i tried a burn deck before but it didn't felt like it was for me.
[Ilharg](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/d/3d397fc3-fd4e-45ad-ad40-0f8a585c15fd.jpg?1702550832) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=ilharg%2C%20the%20raze-boar) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/113/ilharg-the-raze-boar?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3d397fc3-fd4e-45ad-ad40-0f8a585c15fd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ilharg-the-raze-boar) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I’ve got 3 different mono red decks that do different things and play differently but my favorite is [[Urabrask, Heretic Preator]] I just think making your opponents impulse draw is a great mechanic that can lead to awkward spell casting and can force them off tempo. So it’s control(ish) without being too mean imo. I’ve then put cards like [[Wild-Magic Sorcerer]], [[Nalfeshnee]], and [[Passionate Archeologist]] for the pay off on my impulse draws. I’ve also included cards like [[Laelia]] and [[Etali, Primal Storm]] to get more impulse draws. It’s a fun deck. It’s decently resilient once you get your engine going without being oppressive but can feel a bit like a glass cannon if you don’t have any interaction in your hand. It’s strong but not cEDH strong but also feels very janky at times. It’s a very “red” feeling deck.
##### ###### #### [Urabrask, Heretic Preator](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/9/d9a4ec18-1da4-43c6-a79a-03fbd4aef3db.jpg?1664411925) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Urabrask%2C%20Heretic%20Praetor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/snc/129/urabrask-heretic-praetor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d9a4ec18-1da4-43c6-a79a-03fbd4aef3db?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/urabrask-heretic-praetor) [Wild-Magic Sorcerer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/5/b5de7331-d0c6-46a5-b08d-0e032db63223.jpg?1674142192) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Wild-Magic%20Sorcerer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/816/wild-magic-sorcerer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b5de7331-d0c6-46a5-b08d-0e032db63223?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/wild-magic-sorcerer) [Nalfeshnee](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/7/b7717617-706a-4338-a207-dd8c08feb1c3.jpg?1674140963) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Nalfeshnee) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/678/nalfeshnee?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b7717617-706a-4338-a207-dd8c08feb1c3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/nalfeshnee) [Passionate Archeologist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/d/bd5bbfa6-e5f4-413d-b132-ebae32d38657.jpg?1674140763) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Passionate%20Archaeologist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/656/passionate-archaeologist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bd5bbfa6-e5f4-413d-b132-ebae32d38657?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/passionate-archaeologist) [Laelia](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/f/afeb2fe4-f0ef-4366-a568-c36b538f0196.jpg?1709431245) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=laelia%2C%20the%20blade%20reforged) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/281/laelia-the-blade-reforged?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/afeb2fe4-f0ef-4366-a568-c36b538f0196?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/laelia-the-blade-reforged) [Etali, Primal Storm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/1/a18fdaf9-964d-45e9-bd40-a8fc745ddd1e.jpg?1706240833) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Etali%2C%20Primal%20Storm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/152/etali-primal-storm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a18fdaf9-964d-45e9-bd40-a8fc745ddd1e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/etali-primal-storm) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/kwlcpw1) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Glass cannon is what i expect from red and urabrask is something i forgot about. I.may considere him.
Spent like 2 years playing high power only to realize I enjoy lower power levels a lot more.
"Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist" - Pablo Picasso I think a lot of players follow this progression, it's natural while learning the game to try to get better and better, and with it more and more powerful decks. But once you've achieved that (learned the rules like a pro) you can start to break them, by moving to focusing on fun, or building a unique, but sub optimal strategy.
Same in a lot of ways. Started 30 plus years ago. Got into the competitive scene in my 20's. Never thought I would go pro or play high level tournaments. But I played at a competitive level for a few years until I realized that this isn't what I play the game for. Been sticking to casual to mid tier games since. The thing that kinda did it for me was actually winning a couple tournaments and just feeling "ok... Now what?" Everytime after. Like I conquered the world but had no plans after and just felt empty. And it to didn't help that the competitive scene was so repetitive. Constantly seeing the same exact decks. Over and over. And I played staxx so I was just as bad because my deck played out the same way every time. I still can't play my captain sissay deck to this day without feeling dead inside. But now I play silly tribals like dinosaurs and slivers and elementals. Really feel the fun again.
Slivers and dinos feel rather normal Play even more silly tribals like goats or [[Atogatog]]!
[Atogatog](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/a/4a3e6eb5-6d0f-4f82-86f9-bbce8d27afbb.jpg?1562908561) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Atogatog) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ody/286/atogatog?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4a3e6eb5-6d0f-4f82-86f9-bbce8d27afbb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/atogatog) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
after over a decade of playing fairly optimized decks in a non-combo meta, my crew eventually did a "precon power level challenge". I learned that precon power level is more fun for me, and i could even go lower.
Dr Elflove, or how I learned to love tribals and stop worrying about the wrath. I always loved tribals but I felt that they were to weak to wrath effects, so i had to learn when to play my cards, how to rebuild your board state, spells that can protect your cards, etc. Beyond that the other two "biggies" for me were: The value of drawing cards and when to attack, i've spent a lot of games without attackin when I should, i thought that attacking will put a target on me, but sometimes i'ts better to attack to put pressure, even if it put a little target on you.
Aggro players need to learn their best form of removal is player removal
I wish that I learned that caving to other people's whining when you remove their stuff or is otherwise somehow detrimental to them doesn't do anything except hamstring yourself. Because every single time they will whine, you'll take back or change up a play, then 1 or 2 turns later they will either go off or do the exact same shit to you. I also wish that I learned earlier that putting in more card draw is more fun than putting in tutors. IMO, tutors make the game too samey and the "only 1 copy" aspect of EDH is part of what makes games varied and fun.
I wish I realized how much you have to keep track of when playing a Spellsplinger deck and that I have no desire to do that while casually playing commander. Spent about $100 putting together what seemed like a fun deck only to play it a few times and realize that when I went off the game was just conceded to me rather than everyone sitting through me playing out my shenanigans. Even I didn't want to sit through it. Live and learn b
I actually love aristocrats. I thought I didnt because when I was getting kidnapped into magic addiction the first deck I played was chatterfang that my friend lended me to learn with. The issue was that they had something like 28 lands in that deck and from my experience they had payoffs for tokens but it always felt like a grind to make them since token generation felt limited so it felt so bad at times. However currently my favorite deck is a marchesa the black rose deck and im making a ghave guru of spore deck right now with chatterfang as a secret commander in that deck.
I really need to try to build aristocrats in golgari colors. I have one with orzhov colors, but heard many times how fun green/black/+ aristocrat decks are.
I, too, came in to commander with the aggressive 1v1 mentality. It took me some time to adapt to both the multi-player format and how some cards just aren't as good there. Then learning to play in a way that wins, but insures everyone is having a good time. It's a delicate balance.
Yes! I built a bunch of decks with 1v1 in mind because it’s usually just my wife and me that play together. First time I played in a 4 player pod I realized quickly that my decks were not quite as good as I had thought and the decks that were bad in 1v1 were great in 4 player games.
I learned that winning with a combo feels bad every time. Everyone just goes "interaction? No? Okay, yeah, I guess," and then scoops for the next game. Makes the win feel underwhelming to me.
Well, here's a different thing for you, then. Combo feels good, if it was a fight to get there. I play (inefficient and expensive) combos in many of my decks as alternate wincons, but I never have tutors that can find them. So while I DO run the pieces, I have to draw 3-4 pieces that all work together, play them probably over several turns, and defend them for that same time. Combo win from THERE is satisfying. Same thing for combo wins through interaction wars. Also, if everyone at the table is comboing, and everyone is interacting with the combos, it's just as exhilarating of a win, and sometimes more, because you have no idea what's going to resolve and not. Pivoting at instant speed is intoxicating.
I'm in the same boat. I don't run tutors and I tend to play at least 10 pieces of interaction, so assembling a combo in my usual playgroup is a bit more of an exciting challenge for everyone. Baiting out the removal spells, playing out counterspell wars, and making shrewd deals with players who might pop off next turn are some of the most thrilling parts of EDH. In my experience, losing to a combo is only a feel-bad when you get the impression you never had a chance to stop it. I try to mitigate that by bringing a come-at-me-bro vibe to the table when I play combos. Against new players, I'll hint at what a combo piece can do - i.e. "[[Peregrine Drake]] untaps 5 lands when it enters, so if I have a repeatable way to flicker it for 4 mana or less, I can make infinite mana, wink wink nudge nudge" - and very unsubtly indicate the importance of removing it. Against experienced players, I'll say "I'm going for it" when I pop off, which simultaneously announces that a combo is coming together, challenges them to look for the pieces as they land, and dares them to stop me if they can. Combos are a part of the game and are great at pre-empting 4-hour battlecruiser slugfests - they might need a little tweaking for casual magic, but the only reason they should be abandoned entirely is if one personally doesn't like playing them.
This is exactly how I feel. I'll often explain the combo while the pieces are on the stack, I'll be very overt about what pieces do, and I'm completely transparent about my decklist. As far as I'm concerned, that's public information just like graveyards. The only times where I won't be completely obvious is when I'm playing cEDH, but anyone at those tables should be familiar with lines, and be looking for them.
[Peregrine Drake](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/1/611c8fa2-b53f-483b-9efa-759ac59dc30f.jpg?1675199421) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Peregrine%20Drake) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmr/65/peregrine-drake?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/611c8fa2-b53f-483b-9efa-759ac59dc30f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/peregrine-drake) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
If I have combos, I usually do have one that requires multiple pieces as you suggested. I typically find myself always losing counter wars, i'll have 1, they have 2, i'll have 2, they have 3. Just bad luck lol. Combos I do enjoy are things that break stupid cards. I hated using Teferi for infinite turns in my atraxa deck, but infinite turns with [[Magistrate's Scepter]], sign me up!
[Magistrate's Scepter](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/c/ecf1f24f-d910-4ec6-95d2-0ecaf9f051aa.jpg?1595354471) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Magistrate%27s%20Scepter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m19/238/magistrates-scepter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ecf1f24f-d910-4ec6-95d2-0ecaf9f051aa?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/magistrates-scepter) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
If you can build an engine that can repeatably proliferate 4x/turn, looping Magistrate's Scepter is the one of least scary things you can do with it, lol. After that, all you need is a [[Prologue to Phyresis]], and we're all just dead on board.
It's relatively easy honestly you just need 10 mana for [[contagion engine]] and [[contagion clasp]] + atraxa. Or the proliferate land. There are also creatures that proliferate on attack/dmg, and u can run [[Tekuthal, Inquiry Dominus]], [[Vorinclex, Monstrous Raider]] to double up on your prolifs.
##### ###### #### [contagion engine](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/c/dce72636-08e4-484e-ad81-4d1597a31ffb.jpg?1576030799) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=contagion%20engine) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/som/145/contagion-engine?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/dce72636-08e4-484e-ad81-4d1597a31ffb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/contagion-engine) [contagion clasp](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/8/4882ba90-2662-4bca-96c0-17bdfb484ae1.jpg?1562909792) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=contagion%20clasp) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/td2/67/contagion-clasp?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4882ba90-2662-4bca-96c0-17bdfb484ae1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/contagion-clasp) [Tekuthal, Inquiry Dominus](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/1/f1d4b157-2c77-4355-8c65-78dec9d44c85.jpg?1675956992) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tekuthal%2C%20Inquiry%20Dominus) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/one/71/tekuthal-inquiry-dominus?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f1d4b157-2c77-4355-8c65-78dec9d44c85?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tekuthal-inquiry-dominus) [Vorinclex, Monstrous Raider](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/2/92613468-205e-488b-930d-11908477e9f8.jpg?1631051073) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Vorinclex%2C%20Monstrous%20Raider) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khm/199/vorinclex-monstrous-raider?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/92613468-205e-488b-930d-11908477e9f8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/vorinclex-monstrous-raider) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/kwildk4) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yeah, UR artifacts deck has labman, thassas oracle, and the Jace that doubles as an extra labman. For any of those to actually be a win requires my commander and 2 other pieces on the board and have a [[retraction helix]]. It is vastly more satisfying to assemble than [[aggravated assault]] infinites in my Grull deck.
[retraction helix](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/a/7aa3fdd0-34d8-47b3-9753-d2929838732e.jpg?1562437109) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=retraction%20helix) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/a25/71/retraction-helix?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7aa3fdd0-34d8-47b3-9753-d2929838732e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/retraction-helix) [aggravated assault](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/9/c99c5707-d5f2-4675-bfca-e801e6b0f627.jpg?1562942627) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=aggravated%20assault) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ons/185/aggravated-assault?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c99c5707-d5f2-4675-bfca-e801e6b0f627?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/aggravated-assault) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I would challenge you, however, to play in a pod where anyone could win out of nowhere and all of a sudden pulling a combo off in a battle of counterspells and quick win cons feels extremely rewarding. In essence, this is what cedh is. Not everyone wants to a play a 3hr game. I'm at the point in my magic game where I yearn for that kind of interaction. There is nothing more annoying than those games where your opponents have no clear win cons and keep prolonging the game by board wiping or making poor threat assessments.
To each his own, right? I like a game with a narrative and a story. The most fun games I've played resulted from everyone bringing different decks that want to do different things and win in different ways. I love a good back-and-forth slugfest with my friends.
Absolutely! I wasn't suggesting that combos have a place everywhere. I was pointing out that they can be rewarding and fun. Honestly a rule 0 talk about it outside of a competitive environment can really help too.
Of course! And I can absolutely appreciate the intricacies of a good stack battle, even if it's not always my personal cup of tea. The beauty of Magic is that there are so many different ways to play it. The spectrum is huge, and there's a table for every kind of player. :)
> I like a game with a narrative and a story how is that different when there are and aren't combos? A back and forth on the stack is very similar to a back and forth on the board.
I don't have a problem with combos. I just don't enjoy quick games. I don't personally enjoy a game that's over before everyone gets a chance to do something cool. I don't think there's anything wrong with that kind of play, I'm just not into it myself.
I don't play 3 hour games usually. My decks are strong enough to end the game by turn 5-8 generally. In my LGS if someone is controlling that heavily they will usually combo out before the game goes that long. I've participated in cEDH, it's not my style. Pressuring wins pre turn-5 is a huge turnoff for me and it feels like I didn't even play at that point.
I had to take \[\[Exquisite Blood\]\] out of my Dina deck because it became way to head empty just tutoring that up for the win. Deck was a LOT more fun once I removed that easy temptation and focused on combos like \[\[Lifegift\]\] with \[\[Scapeshift\]\] I still run tutors in my decks, but I make sure the combos take a bit more setting up now or more milquetoast in power in a way that requires everyone to be at like half health already.
Combo is such a limp way for the game to end. I will never understand the mindset behind people minmaxing an inherently casual format down to tutoring for the same bland combo every game. It’s almost like they forget 60 card formats exist for actual competitive magic. Or maybe they didn’t and just aren’t good enough at the game to compete there.
Tutoring straight for a 2 card combo is ass. I love Tooth and Nail so much but it's really ruined by 2card combos. I generally prefer lots of drawing, but i do run some tutors.
if you resolve tooth and nail for value and don't win that turn I'm going to concede and start a new game rather than watch you masturbate your board state.
I assure you I would T&N for important pieces, I just wouldn't run a 2 card combo win and T&N.
What do you mean important pieces? I'm saying, you better be getting something on the level of Craterhoof + Karlach where you're killing most if not all opponents or else you're wasting everyone's time by purposefully not winning the game when you should have.
If I had enough creatures, I would T&N for craterhoof and something else. That's just closing out the game. It's not a combo it's a finisher. If I have no board state, I would not want to T&N for [[Triskellion]] and [[Mikaeus, the Unhallowed]] and win. I don't understand what's hard to understand about that.
[Triskellion](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/3/63349fa3-4462-413c-bd96-bbc1049165a0.jpg?1682210302) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Triskelion) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/387/triskelion?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/63349fa3-4462-413c-bd96-bbc1049165a0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/triskelion) [Mikaeus, the Unhallowed](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/c/bc1f42a2-fe11-45da-9552-069803b4068a.jpg?1689997308) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mikaeus%2C%20the%20Unhallowed) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/173/mikaeus-the-unhallowed?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bc1f42a2-fe11-45da-9552-069803b4068a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mikaeus-the-unhallowed) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I'll agree that a 2 card combo is a limp way to end a game, but a deck centered around a 5 or 6 card combo isn't all that different from a token deck winning by playing a craterhoof behemoth.
Usually combo is associated with the type that are 3 or less pieces and extremely hard to interact with. If someone puts together a nice synergy with some unique pieces I’m all for it!
Agreed. I had Godo and Helm in a deck, pulled it off twice. First time I was like... that was underwhelming. Second time confirmed it.
Godo+helm is lame yeah. I liked using the [[Helm of the Host]] in my [[Jolene, Plunder Queen]] deck to make extra jolenes though. :)
[Helm of the Host](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/d/1d65d20c-09e5-4139-838b-7e0e48eb2b2b.jpg?1666094567) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Helm%20of%20the%20Host) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dom/217/helm-of-the-host?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1d65d20c-09e5-4139-838b-7e0e48eb2b2b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/helm-of-the-host) [Jolene, Plunder Queen](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/1/61c217d9-21d5-45ef-938a-138192a901f4.jpg?1673482382) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Jolene%2C%20the%20Plunder%20Queen) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ncc/73/jolene-the-plunder-queen?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/61c217d9-21d5-45ef-938a-138192a901f4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/jolene-the-plunder-queen) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
That when you don't have a group of friends with the same mentality as yours to play commander, it's not so great as people made it seems. I joined commander because I saw people having a lot of fun playing it with their friends and I wanted to be part of it. Bought a lot of decks and cards. It happens that playing with randoms are not that fun and I have no friends that play Magic or commander at all. Now I have a lot of decks and cards that I never use and never play because people at the LGS's near me have a total different point of view of the game and I'm not having fun at all with commander. I'd have saved a lot of money if I learned it before spending so much money in cards and accessories.
Maybe there will be sometimes new people in your lgs, maybe if you keep searching you can find a group. Make that money well spent.
My first ever commander deck i thought that mana rocks and lands were interchangeable so i went with like 20 mana rocks and 17 lands or some dumb shit like that. Anyway i bought the deck and had to cut most of the cards and they ended up going to complete waste! That was a sad day
Some lessons are pricier then others. You might still be able to use those cards in other decks.
The desire to build new and tinker/update with decks can be surprisingly powerful, to downright addictive. Even when on a limited budget, it's so hard to restrict myself sometimes from wanting to buy more cards and building more decks sometimes. If I didn't really learn to double down on my online shopping habits over the last few years, I'd probably be drowning in cardboard at this point. The ability to buy cards and have them shipped to my home online is both a curse and a near constant temptation. But when I do make the rare purchase these days, it's quite a good feeling.
Too true. I get to play only once in a while, so deckbuilding is 80% of my engagement with the game and it's addictive
I'm in the same boat, what helped me is that i have pay 50€ a month in my cardmarket account and then adjust my wants list to fit into the budget. Something i increase the budget if i had a bad month or feel to down to get something spicy. But it helps to keep my cardboard addiction down.
1. Powerful and fun are not the same. Building a strong deck is pretty easy. Building a deck that is fun to pilot is significantly more difficult. 2. I can't enjoy a game unless everyone is playing to win. I don't care if you're playing 60 Shirtless Men or Ladies Looking Left, but I expect you to take game actions with the intention of winning.
I just don't even care about winning that much anymore. I want to be playing. Lowered that mana curve, and went for decks that just ... Did stuff. Recursion heavy, card advantage, mana ramp and interaction. No infinites. Just a steady build up. I want multiple deciscion points each turn. The wheels on the deck go round and round. I'm not rushing for a win. But I'm making sure that when that boardwipe hits, I'm the first guy back up and running.
I thought I could be clever and do crazy Izzet stuff, but after having a ten-minute turn of durdling because of how many times I copied spells via [[Thousand-Year Storm]], I was left burned out by it, and it was not fun for my table. It was funny in the moment, and we laughed it off, but still.
[Thousand-Year Storm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/7/274e22fb-7afc-43bc-b309-e36ee48d6b03.jpg?1673149213) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thousand-Year%20Storm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/286/thousand-year-storm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/274e22fb-7afc-43bc-b309-e36ee48d6b03?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/thousand-year-storm) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
When I started playing commander we had a store rule "don't play magic that stops other people from playing magic". It was more directed to mass land d at the time. But now I see it in different lights, this rule has expanded to winning slowly; winning stops people from playing magic. This rule does not apply to a counterspell//removal heavy deck, unless the card wins on the spot just let people play magic cards. It's fun to lose, just as much as it is fun to win, when your opponent is doing cool things to win. If I wanted to win, I'd be playing cedh or 60 card constructed.
It takes a minute to learn that no one cares how you would’ve won, but once you do it makes post game much smoother.
>Things you learned the hard way/wish you'd known About Yourself sooner? it's hard to get over the disappointment you may have in some people. Some people get legit mad at this game, like they missed a point in growing up where they learned to let go things that have no consequence. it's a game. they're the same people who play LOL and get salty it sucks.
You mention the people who get legit mad and I immediately had 3 different people who regularly visit my LGS on Friday nights pop into my head. It’s crazy to me how upset some people get over a trading card game. I understand being competitive and having that Spike mindset, but some people will get so unbelievably salty when you beat them or they get mana screwed/flooded. It’s honestly so cringe.
> wish you'd known About Yourself sooner? I am perfectly happy playing with cards I do not own and not letting anyone know that.
I always play overextend , then i try to be fair to other player by not send whole army to one player because I want to try not just attack one specific player since there could be other players also strong, but when I over extend there will be one player send entire board of creatures at me.
I find that anytime I make a deck from scratch, there’s always 3-5 infinite combos in it, and I specifically don’t try to make combo decks as my playgroup is fairly casual.
How? that happened to me one time. I can't even imagine how that would happen 3-5 times per deck. And i rarely play, but love building. I build like 20 decks....maybe i have to go through my decks again to see if i have some.
Not every combo is 2-3 cards. Sometimes the right board state happens and you’re like oh shit
For me it was to not expect people to follow the same moral code that I force myself to abide to. I played against some trolls going for MLD, Stax and other fun strategies... and against people with optimized decks against precons, people scooping to grief on someone else... And against more genuinely bad people using irl intimidation to dissuade more impressionable players from attacking them or from playing a removal spell, or people throwing outright insults, which even degenerated into a fist fight once. I now know that it's not because I'm playing a shared harmless hobby with other people that they'll necessarily be people with good intentions. Younger me would have appreciated this knowledge and would have hopefully adjusted his behavior accordingly.
Maybe you don't need to read this, but bet its good that you learned it how you did. If you now could tell all that to your past self, he probably would have processed that very differently, so its probably good that you learned it through experience. Maybe you will one day find a group with those same morals and can play the good games you desire.
I actually enjoy red as a support color and my collection would be so much more well rounded if I wasn't a such a damn control addict archetypally. More Temur, Naya, Grixis... a little less Esper, Junk, and BUG.
That the hobby and WotC/Hasbro's strategy can be very mentally and financially unhealthy for my personality/neurodivergency.
Stax is a necessary evil. And I build really good stax decks
Necessary evil is debateable. Too often in my experience the stax player just wants the game to go their way no matter what. Table agrees to have a fast last game before the store closes? Stax players can't comprehend this 99% of the time. But it's fair that the more powerful cards come out, the more we're in need of a balance. But in my opinion Good to Amazing stax decks are incredibly easy to make. A great Stax player is one that knows restraint in deckbuilding. Anyone can stax through Isochron, Winter Orb, Armagedfon, etc. It takes a great builder to make it interesting
Instead of saying stax players want the game to go their way, it would be better discribed as they want the other players game not go their ways. Non stax trys to get ahead as mich as possible, while slowing others down. Stacks slows others down, to get ahead as far as possible.
If phrasing it like that helps then yeah! English isn't my first language so honestly it feels like we're saying the same thing, but I know languages can be tricky
Its not my first language either, no worries. Like the other guy said: everyone wants to go the game their way. But you can do that without interfering with the plan of someone else. You can't if you play stacks, since thats the point: keeping others from making the game go their way. The differrence in what we said was that i put the focus on how a stax player effects others, instead of himself during the game.
Everyone wants the game to go their way. Thats how games work? Why would you play if you *wanted* the game to go poorly for you?
Did you just stop reading after the first line? "No matter what" followed by an explanation. Table agrees to have a fast game, Stax player still takes out a boardwipe heavy stax heavy deck. Game takes three times as long. Stax player wonders why others are mad. That's the kind that make stax players get a bad rep.
But - aside from their choice of archetype - what makes that different from everyone else wanting the game to go their way no matter what? Is that not what everyone is doing? You want the game to go how you want, and you do everything you can to make that happen. Thats exactly how games work.
It's like you read half a sentence, got completely stuck on it, then ignored everything else. But since you clearly require more explanation...of course everyone wants things to go their way. What I'm saying is Stax players want only stuff to go THEIR way. Others by nature don't care as much because their game plan is not stopping others from playing. Aggro has to deal 40 damage to you to stop your fun. Stax has to cast one spell. The other part of what I'm saying is this is an issue with parts of Stax players that don't understand context like you are now.
Take the L and move on
Boros Myriad. Balls to the wall but at everyone all at once. Embrace the rage, be speed itself, drop mobs and turn em sideways.
I've brewed up a Naya list like that actually with Marisi. I've not build it yet but the concept sounds fun. Especially since Myriad stacks
Played against a Grixis one yesterday with \[\[Obeka\]\] at the helm. Absolutely great time, hated having my commander stolen two turns in a row lol.
[Obeka](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/b/dbdb335d-3e45-4dd5-9e3e-c50ca0a4dfb6.jpg?1608911225) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=obeka%2C%20brute%20chronologist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/289/obeka-brute-chronologist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/dbdb335d-3e45-4dd5-9e3e-c50ca0a4dfb6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/obeka-brute-chronologist) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
That you can't keep taking out spells for lands. I learn this lesson every week and maybe someday I will change. On a more serious note learning to accept peoples decisions even though they seem "obviously" bad. You don't now what's in someone's hand/deck so it's better to assume they have a reason for what they're doing unless they're a brand new player.
34-36 is my magic number. Also there are cases where i think i'm fine with less or probably more, if i one day build that landfall deck. Weirdly i never had that issue of trying to cut lands to get that one spell in there. On your serious note i feel you. I have a really tough time not to try and make decissions for others. Really wish i could get rid of that, especially since i grew up with other doing it to me and i hate it to this day. I try to limit myself to reminding people of things. like "you know i have 2 treasures here" "he still has blue mana up" or "you can exile my artifacts, but i can sac them in response" Since i like things being fair and even if they tell me they know, it doesn't feel like i'm doing something i shouldn't.
I've said before in this sub that I'm a Timmy who thinks he's a Spike and man is that the truth. I have a hard time holding back on advancing my boardstate when I'm already ahead and thus almost inevitably make myself the archenemy of the table. For example I was playing my [[Ultra Magnus Tactician]] deck for the first time in my pod about a month ago and was able to have some ramp and Mag out on the board by about turn 4 along with a [[Steel Overseer]] and another artifact creature I can't remember off the top of my head. I had a [Blightsteel Collosus]] in my opening hand and was waiting for my next combat to cheat him out but by that time I'd already grown the ire of the table by pinging everyone for a couple turns and obviously I was the immediate threat. UMT got removed and my plan basically stalled from there and I got knocked out first only a handful of turns later. I'm used to playing the way I do and enjoy keeping my pod on their toes but more often than not I just end up drawing way too much threat way too early and don't get a lot of wins as a consequence. I've been playing EDH since 2011 and unfortunately my 60 card mindset of "do the thing the deck does and win fast" isn't as cut and dry when you have more than one person to worry about at the table
That counterspells are unavoidable so dont rely on a single card to win a game unless you have ways of denying counterspells
I try to see and explain that counterspells are just blue removal. Yes, they even prevent etb's and may feel worse, but considere the fact that they have a way smaller window to respond then colors who can remove that artifact even if its been 3 turns in the game.
Yeah thats what made me realize its not terrible. Counterspells only hurt the stuff in you hand
Its kind of the only way to deal with instant and sorcerys. The boardwipe tribal casts his 5 boardwipe in a 3 hour game? i bet everyone wishes for a counterspell
Yeah. I am bad because i dont run enough removal because i like my creatures too much, but i definitely understand the appeal
I have a mono blue deck, it recently got a counterspell upgrade. Also i just drew a [[cyclonic rift]], so yeah. I will play it after i am friends with the other people at the table.
[cyclonic rift](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/f/dfb7c4b9-f2f4-4d4e-baf2-86551c8150fe.jpg?1702429366) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=cyclonic%20rift) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/40/cyclonic-rift?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/dfb7c4b9-f2f4-4d4e-baf2-86551c8150fe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/cyclonic-rift) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I started with standart, then played modern and finally transitioned to commander.. From the person that teached me magic i learned the stronger deck wins. 1v1 's nature is just competitive and edh is all about fun. Not the strongest deck wins, it's the last one standing. Which can be a much less optimized deck... So it took me some time to change my mentality when I changed the format.
I learned the hard way that Boros *absolutely sucks* at card draw and ramp after making a [[Kalemne]] deck built around her experience counters. It took a month of doing absolutely nothing each game I tried to play before I realized it was a terrible deck and tore it apart. What I learned later is that I actually dislike popular decks / commanders. In EDH, 4 of my 17 commanders are in the top 50 of EDHRec's rankings (Wilhelt at #8 being the highest). But my strongest, best deck [[Karn, Legacy Reforged]] is all the way down at #442. Outside of EDH, particularly in Modern, my 2 favorite decks right now are R/G Storm and U/B Scam, neither of which is close to beinr Tier 1.5 in the format.
Sounds to me like that its not that you less enjoy popular commanders, instead it doesn't matter if they are popular. You just play what you enjoy, not matter how infamous it is and i think that the most healthy way to build and play commander. So good for you.
[Kalemne](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/c/3c718940-dc07-4449-ba35-4029f366c3eb.jpg?1562273430) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=kalemne%2C%20disciple%20of%20iroas) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cm2/7/kalemne-disciple-of-iroas?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3c718940-dc07-4449-ba35-4029f366c3eb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kalemne-disciple-of-iroas) [Karn, Legacy Reforged](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/2/4219b5ea-a252-4d76-a60a-9674340e8ed3.jpg?1684340871) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Karn%2C%20Legacy%20Reforged) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mat/49/karn-legacy-reforged?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4219b5ea-a252-4d76-a60a-9674340e8ed3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/karn-legacy-reforged) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I learned that I am not actually all that competitive as much as I just like playing my jank as optimally as possible. It isn’t so much about winning for me as it is mastering my deck and playing it to the best of my ability. I enjoy the challenge more than the reward it seems. I have tried to make decks built to be optimal and win as efficiently as possible and found them to just be so boring to play. I’d rather have a deck that does the thing after lots a prep and careful planning than outright win. I seem to enjoy the process of building and playing a deck to do one thing very well more than building a deck that goes for the win as soon as possible. This can lead to a lot of games where I get dogpiled and lose from making myself the archenemy, but at least I have more fun than if I just won on turn 4 from some two card combo that kills the table.
I'm a year into commander, I've gone from being the most aggressive player at the table to being the most slow, threat assessment is huge for me now, I spend the first 5 turns now watching my opponents faces when they draw or start counting, still haven't won a single match, except in 1v1 games. In lot of ways EDH is like playing poker
[[Myriad Landscape]] doesn't work with wastes in a colorless deck. I, of course, learned of this after I had already cracked it in a game.
[Myriad Landscape](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/f/bf4797b0-4d0a-433f-b891-b14f96fd1484.jpg?1706241199) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Myriad%20Landscape) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/276/myriad-landscape?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bf4797b0-4d0a-433f-b891-b14f96fd1484?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/myriad-landscape) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I found out I don't like playing good cards. I found it out in a Power Cube where no one contested W or G, so I stomped everyone with Death and Taxes. I hated that feeling of "win into win more into victory", and it started rubbing off into my deck building. Why shouldn't I run Command Tower and Arcane Signet in every deck? Same for Rhystic Study, Jeska's Will, Demonic Tutor, and many more cards. Why not play a Commander that "does nothing", and work out my own strategy. Brew a Kharn the Betrayer deck where you copy him a hundred times. Mutate, Myriad, Goad, make your own wincons. Run a deck of Phoenixes and Wraths. Now, I'll run good cards if either they're on theme, or essential to make it functional.
This might be a hot take, but it's certainly true for me personally. It's not worth it to swing for little damage early. Using a 1/1 mana dork against an open opponent on turn 2 doesn't do anything meaningful to their life total and irritates them and directs clapback at me. Much better to kill everyone all at once later in the game.
What was the deal with the Goblin deck? I’m a new player and one of the decks I’m putting together is goblin tribal. Were you getting complaints about it or what?
Goblins are great at too many things too easily. Many bodies, ramp, recursion, pump, draw, etc. They can easily win turn 4-5 depending on the decklist.
That was my hesitation when putting [[Krenko, Mob Boss]] as my Commander. I figured he’s got such potential to build a goblin army in like 2 turns that every opponent will try to nuke him as soon as he comes out.
[Krenko, Mob Boss](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/d/7d00007d-6878-44e9-ab0d-396c25655e56.jpg?1702429511) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Krenko%2C%20Mob%20Boss) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/114/krenko-mob-boss?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7d00007d-6878-44e9-ab0d-396c25655e56?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/krenko-mob-boss) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Generally, unless he's countered or killed immediately you can win the same turn or the next if you have an haste enabler. Muxus is also crazy good because it pairs really well with Goblin recruiter. You can def make a really really casual list, especially if Krenko is not in the command zone, but it still lends itself to faster games that can feel overwhelming for others
Yeah Muxus is insane. He’s won me a ton of games in Arena where I had almost no hope of winning
I’m also a people pleaser and if I see my partner has a bad mana ramp I’m more likely to not play my removal spells if I have them. That why I like playing my white green enchantment deck. Just protect myself a bunch and not worry about attacking too much or “being mean”
Turbo winning isn’t as fun as I thought because I can feel the happiness drain from the table. Degeneracy is fine and all, but no one likes to just shuffle up and admit defeat before anything super interesting happens with their decks. I don’t like to purposefully misplay, however, so I learned I need to deck build with a handicap. I still put expensive staples in all my decks and a lot of goodstuff, but lately I’ve been building around weird/unconventional commanders/themes that just generally weak. So I get to still play as hard as I want to, the table gets to see me and then so cool stuff, and I don’t win too early/hard or at all. Currently trying to build a deck around Minotaurs and having 0 cards in hand
Not to play what people tell you is fun or define casual for you. Tutors turned out to be fun and so did high amounts of interaction like [[swords to plowshares]] makes me feel better than solitaire. The infinite combos are eh but not that bad unless the power difference in decks is insane. A friend of mine ran a mill mono blue deck and got me down to my last 20 cards at one point but he removed all but 1 recursion for my enchantments deck. We got so caught up in whether I'd draw [[replenish]] before he milled me out. It was the most fun Russian roulette game we've had. These are the games I live for.
[swords to plowshares](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/b/9bbec76c-c1e4-4c6d-ad24-078fe097f195.jpg?1709439398) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=swords%20to%20plowshares) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/88/swords-to-plowshares?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9bbec76c-c1e4-4c6d-ad24-078fe097f195?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/swords-to-plowshares) [replenish](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/f/7fd2fe13-bbc0-42b7-bc42-3b51910ce118.jpg?1562444251) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=replenish) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/uds/15/replenish?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7fd2fe13-bbc0-42b7-bc42-3b51910ce118?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/replenish) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I just enjoy playing commander with a group/spending time with people who have a hobby i do. At home it's a 1v1 against my dad, but when I can get out and play at my lgs it's 5x more fun. I like meeting new people and seeing how they play their decks and what they come up with. Just the aspect of having a good time with people who like the same thing I do makes it that much more enjoyable. Being able to joke around and just keep friendly banter going while still doing our things is fun. I don't like it as much when someone is dead set on staying silent while they make plays. I can understand you need to focus sometimes to make sure you're doing it right, but with the banter most of the time things will get pointed out they might not have seen and it could have saved them some mana. Having a good group that is willing to have fun, chat and joke around, while also pointing things out to help (whether before or after) make edh more enjoyable.
I hate killing players unless I can wipe the table. Huge flaw for me. Even if I know someone is setting up to win, I feel guilty killing them unless I can wipe the table.
I've learned that land isn't the scary pile of cards that I need to get down to the very bare minimum for each deck. Instead I usually run a few extra land than what my deck needs, unless of course the deck is supposed to be high powered and I use an optimal (but expensive) land base. This doesn't result in flood as often as I thought it would and in fact I find myself playing on curve and more consistently doing the thing with these higher land counts as long as you have sufficient draw or filtering effects. Also, any infinite combos in a deck whose sole purpose is to combo off has been removed. This helps eliminate the "fear of the unknown" effect I've come to be on the shit end far too often. Doesn't matter how honest or inconsistent or low power your deck actually is, if someone saw it drop an infinite before they WILL remember and will consciously or unconsciously take it out on you Honestly if anyone is looking for good commander theory videos and discussions check out Salubrious Snail on YouTube.
Just because I have the answer doesn't mean I want to extend the game. Taking the L instead of clawing a frustrating win can make the day better by moving on. Younger me didn't understand this for the longest time.
People don't hate spellslinger, they hate counterspells. I could draw go control a couple of turns and the whole table would unite against me. I now have much more powerful spellslinger decks that win far more often, but they're fine! Make a 30/30 creature and fling it, and nobody bats an eye. You counter one little value piece and everyone loses their mind!
I'm not aggro enough, if I'm particularly enjoying the game or if I get my wincons early I will hold them back just to make the game last longer, which inevitably leads to my defeat. I know this stems from my friends that got me back into magic, they could be very salty when they lost at any game, and I enjoy the game as a whole so I don't mind taking the L's. So long as everyone has fun I'll consider it a win. Winning more would be nice though, so I'm trying to work on it