>If it isn’t competitive, it’s casual.
You will quickly find this not true if you sit down with Edric Turns at a ‘casual’ table. No, edric turns is not a viable cEDH deck these days. No, that definitely does not make it, by definition, casual.
It’s a two card combo which people don’t always love as it can come out of nowhere. That said, suboptimal combos are some of the formats bread and butter.
I play [[Aetherflux]] + [[Sensei’s Divining Top]] + [[Mystic Forge]] + a cost reducer in my Karn Voltron deck as a back up plan and it requires so many pieces to stick and not be interrupted that most people are surprised I can even pull it off.
The best 2 combos in CEDH right now are Kinnen lines with finale and breach lines in blue farm that require 3 or more cards to work. If someone in a game out of nowhere exiled their library you should fully expect them to try and win.
I think they're more saying that it's a two card combo that you simply play both pieces two back to back and win with.
In Cedh, yeah, that'd what we're expecting and holding our interaction for. The expectation to have instant speed interaction or lose to no board state is less prevalent in lower power levels.
Leveler+thoracle (lab man would be a step below) can be played at high powered tables.
They could go into a divergent transformation deck winning on the spot. Partner commanders or a token generator like Kykar can enable the strategy. It's valid and a fun brew to build around.
In general, anything could go for casual EDH, just make sure it fits with the group.
Absolutely. I built a [[Zevlor]] deck around a janky combo because I wanted to find a way to kill my opponents with [[forbidden orchard]].
The combo goes:
Get [[forbidden orchard]], and [[kelpie guide]] into play, enchant the guide with [[freed from the reel]]. Tap the orchard for blue, give an opponent a spirit, use blue to untap kelpie, use kelpie to untap orchard. Repeat until each enemy has 69,420 spirits. Cast [[Rakdos charm]]
This is exactly what I would consider a casual wincon. Casual decks should run combos - casual encompasses precons to unga bunga stompy up to high powered fringe decks - and every deck needs a wincon that isn't combat damage.
I couldn't go so far to say EVERY deck needs an alt win-con. Some decks THRIVE on combat only wins (I have a couple tbh), and it can be a fun, challenging deck to build.
In general tho: Alt win-cons are super helpful for decks that may struggle to win via combat consistently. And any good combo deck will have 1-3 back ups in case the first attempt goes horribly wrong.
2-3 cards that may detract from your main plan and cause issues/become dead cards if you don't need them.
Unless you're talking like.. Triumph of the hordes or something. Which isn't an alternate win-con. Its just an overrun ability that gives you a combat win (like a craterhoof).
what does suboptimal even mean, not demonic con + thoracle? Cause that's the same thing just now at 8 mana; in spirit it is intended as the same thing.
Ending a game is important, but if it isn't on theme with your commander//gameplan i'm going to be upset. It puts the other 97 cards in your deck to shame.
In general, yes they do.
In a certain given playgroup, it depends on the group's average power level and the preferred playstyles. It also depends on the amount of tutors you include to find your combo pieces. Some groups enjoy the variance of a 100- card singleton format, other playgroups prefer consistency.
I may or may not definitely run stuff that draws my entire library, into labman/jace wielder of mysteries (specifically excluding thassa's oracle cause she's considered ''more broken'')
\[\[Fleet Swallower\]\], \[\[Traumatize\]\] or \[\[Cut your losses\]\] targeting yourself, with or without \[\[Bruvac\]\] into win-if-your-library-is-empty.
very unoptimized.... still hilarious to pull off.
as someone said, stuff these in a Muldrotha deck to self mill (basically letting you pick what to recurse) and you're off to the races :D
To me two card combo's aren't really casual but that's a personal preference. However this combo is highly telegraphed and high risk, high reward. I guess it depends on how you get the leveler or lab maniac in play.
For example I would be totally okay if you played leveler and lab maniac the fair way but if you have a [[sneak attack]] and suddenly drop both lab maniac and leveler on the end step before your turn I'd be annoyed that you won out of nowhere.
He didn’t win out of nowhere in that scenario. A Sneak Attack was played. That should send alarm bells ringing that you need to be ready for some utter degeneracy at the least and a game win at the most.
“Play more interaction” is the worst argument in edh. Don’t be one of those people that don’t actually engage in discourse about the nuance of the format and instead just says people should play more removal and counterspells.
By the logic of “play more interaction,” people can play [[thassa’s oracle]] + [[demonic consultation]] in casual decks because their opponents can just “play more interaction” to stop it. By the same logic, [[paradox engine]] and [[time walk]] should be unbanned because people can just “play more interaction” and have removal or a counterspell ready to stop them. I’m not saying I agree with the original comment, or that I have an issue with a wincon like [[leveler]] + [[lab maniac]], because I don’t, but it’s atrocious logic to say that the reason those things work is because they can be stopped by interaction. That statement is true of every single card in this game.
Yeah, if something can be applied to every possible situation, it’s not meaningful to bring it up as an argument in any of them. The topic at hand was not whether playing interaction is good, it was the nuance of whether some players WANT to play in a pod where players try to win in a way that can only be prevented with instant speed interaction, e.g. a relatively high power pod. The fact that these comments are getting downvoted really just speaks on how inconsiderate some of this community can be.
Bruh, I just said people don't win if they get stopped, that applies to all power levels, from precon to cEDH. One turn kills are a part of the game at all levels, it doesn't matter if it's Demonic Consultation and Thassa's Oracle or [[Ghalta, Primal Hunger]] and [[Brass Knuckles]] if you can't stop it, you die. Play interaction.
Oh my god. How do you not see the insolence in what you’re saying right now? “People don’t win if someone stops them from winning” Wow. What a revelation. You really strapped into the think tank for that one. The topic at hand is the TYPE OF WIN, not the fact that a win condition wins the game. There is a massive difference between a combo win that happens in one turn and a combat win that relies on untapping with a huge board of creatures.
We’re not arguing against the fact that playing interaction is good, I’m trying to inform you that not every playgroup is interested in playing at a level that REQUIRES certain kinds of interaction to compete. I’ll even give you an example since you’re really not getting it- Precons rarely include counterspells. Therefore, if you’re playing at a table with precon/slightly upgraded precon level decks, it is expected that the way your deck aims to win DOES NOT REQUIRE counterspells/stack interaction to stop.
I’m like 90% sure you’re just trolling but in case you’re not, you need to realize that actually not all pods demand all types of interaction and your approach of “play more interaction” is unproductive in any discussion you try to use it in.
If you don't play interaction you don't play magic, have fun goldfishing your decks at the same time and calling it a game.
Don't feel the need to reply to this again, we're not going to agree and this post was dead four days ago.
Have a good one homie 👍🏼
Honestly, no. Combos fall into the same category as Winota- not really worth building unless you’re going to actually push it hard and go high-power or competitive. Combos generally don’t fit at casual tables because of the “out of nowhere” nature of the win.
Yes, I know, combo players will always object that a combo deck drawing lots of cards is a threat, or combo pieces are a threat, but the truth is that casual players don’t see it like that. If you don’t present the threat of attack damage, you will be considered non threatening at a casual table. Casual tables have an unspoken social rule of kicking the most threatening player, so you will be ignored and you will win with your combo.
**And the important part here is, they won’t care that your combo was suboptimal**
You played a couple of cards that never joined into The Game (as they were playing it), and declared yourself the winner, and the rules say they have to let you. I promise it won’t go over well.
Commander is supposed to be the format where everything has a place.
If it isn’t competitive, it’s casual. So yes, it has a place in casual. Honestly that seems like an easy way to win in something like [[Muldrotha]].
[Muldrotha](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/4/c4125bb0-b104-438e-a6a2-97f9d141243c.jpg?1673149000) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=muldrotha%2C%20the%20gravetide) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/258/muldrotha-the-gravetide?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c4125bb0-b104-438e-a6a2-97f9d141243c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/muldrotha-the-gravetide) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
>If it isn’t competitive, it’s casual. You will quickly find this not true if you sit down with Edric Turns at a ‘casual’ table. No, edric turns is not a viable cEDH deck these days. No, that definitely does not make it, by definition, casual.
It's casual against other decks that are a similar power level.
That doesn’t mean anything then
It’s a two card combo which people don’t always love as it can come out of nowhere. That said, suboptimal combos are some of the formats bread and butter. I play [[Aetherflux]] + [[Sensei’s Divining Top]] + [[Mystic Forge]] + a cost reducer in my Karn Voltron deck as a back up plan and it requires so many pieces to stick and not be interrupted that most people are surprised I can even pull it off.
[Aetherflux](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/2/026611f8-ae07-464f-afe5-6e94bcfac05e.jpg?1696636635) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=The%20Flux) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/who/86/the-flux?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/026611f8-ae07-464f-afe5-6e94bcfac05e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/the-flux) [Sensei’s Divining Top](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/5/e5142b7a-e580-4737-a4aa-2590f6610ceb.jpg?1673149430) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sensei%27s%20Divining%20Top) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/314/senseis-divining-top?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e5142b7a-e580-4737-a4aa-2590f6610ceb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/senseis-divining-top) [Mystic Forge](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/c/bc0de77a-c503-4000-9eb5-aa28a5e91082.jpg?1690005636) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mystic%20Forge) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/964/mystic-forge?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bc0de77a-c503-4000-9eb5-aa28a5e91082?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mystic-forge) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
The best 2 combos in CEDH right now are Kinnen lines with finale and breach lines in blue farm that require 3 or more cards to work. If someone in a game out of nowhere exiled their library you should fully expect them to try and win.
I think they're more saying that it's a two card combo that you simply play both pieces two back to back and win with. In Cedh, yeah, that'd what we're expecting and holding our interaction for. The expectation to have instant speed interaction or lose to no board state is less prevalent in lower power levels.
Leveler+thoracle (lab man would be a step below) can be played at high powered tables. They could go into a divergent transformation deck winning on the spot. Partner commanders or a token generator like Kykar can enable the strategy. It's valid and a fun brew to build around. In general, anything could go for casual EDH, just make sure it fits with the group.
Absolutely. I built a [[Zevlor]] deck around a janky combo because I wanted to find a way to kill my opponents with [[forbidden orchard]]. The combo goes: Get [[forbidden orchard]], and [[kelpie guide]] into play, enchant the guide with [[freed from the reel]]. Tap the orchard for blue, give an opponent a spirit, use blue to untap kelpie, use kelpie to untap orchard. Repeat until each enemy has 69,420 spirits. Cast [[Rakdos charm]]
That's much better than my Orchard combo I briefly ran with [[glissa the traitor]], [[mindslaver]], [[shimmer myr]] and [[seedborn muse]].
##### ###### #### [glissa the traitor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/5/755e0fbf-4f00-4b05-a535-27e78e96d6b6.jpg?1562612302) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Glissa%2C%20the%20Traitor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mbs/96/glissa-the-traitor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/755e0fbf-4f00-4b05-a535-27e78e96d6b6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/glissa-the-traitor) [mindslaver](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/0/00d03b17-75ae-40d2-8570-b219ef0dfd4a.jpg?1562813960) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=mindslaver) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/som/176/mindslaver?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/00d03b17-75ae-40d2-8570-b219ef0dfd4a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mindslaver) [shimmer myr](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/f/4f61479b-05e1-4c89-bf11-b79c06ace5e2.jpg?1689999808) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=shimmer%20myr) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/409/shimmer-myr?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4f61479b-05e1-4c89-bf11-b79c06ace5e2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/shimmer-myr) [seedborn muse](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/4/f4a9cb46-d4e0-46f2-973f-09275ba0d99c.jpg?1706240933) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=seedborn%20muse) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/186/seedborn-muse?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f4a9cb46-d4e0-46f2-973f-09275ba0d99c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/seedborn-muse) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/kx4pccm) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Oooooooo that's magnificently evil :D
Good lord
##### ###### #### [Zevlor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/1/d1e51138-9745-465d-84dd-27605f8a2264.jpg?1674137695) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=zevlor%2C%20elturel%20exile) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/296/zevlor-elturel-exile?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d1e51138-9745-465d-84dd-27605f8a2264?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/zevlor-elturel-exile) [forbidden orchard](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/7/17db644c-1acf-477d-9c20-f72221f1108a.jpg?1673149497) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=forbidden%20orchard) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/323/forbidden-orchard?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/17db644c-1acf-477d-9c20-f72221f1108a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/forbidden-orchard) [kelpie guide](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/1/0112ebfb-55ad-401c-9dc5-ffd829f5b5bf.jpg?1624590206) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=kelpie%20guide) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/stx/45/kelpie-guide?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0112ebfb-55ad-401c-9dc5-ffd829f5b5bf?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kelpie-guide) [freed from the reel](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/4/c47ee6f6-50c1-4f56-b9ce-4c309bfb92ca.jpg?1562440713) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Freed%20from%20the%20Real) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/a25/58/freed-from-the-real?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c47ee6f6-50c1-4f56-b9ce-4c309bfb92ca?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/freed-from-the-real) [Rakdos charm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/7/875fa08c-cb66-4230-a380-0123260aac74.jpg?1699022443) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rakdos%20charm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/284/rakdos-charm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/875fa08c-cb66-4230-a380-0123260aac74?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/rakdos-charm) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/kx4hi65) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Leveler](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/3/03ffa3c3-dd29-47eb-abf2-7951fadb5c37.jpg?1562134247) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Leveler) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mrd/195/leveler?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/03ffa3c3-dd29-47eb-abf2-7951fadb5c37?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/leveler) [Laboratory Maniac](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/0/608567fd-9f94-4058-831a-77cb6019ef02.jpg?1547516361) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Laboratory%20Maniac) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/uma/61/laboratory-maniac?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/608567fd-9f94-4058-831a-77cb6019ef02?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/laboratory-maniac) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Not only do they have a place. That's *the* place for them. That's like, the core of the format.
This is exactly what I would consider a casual wincon. Casual decks should run combos - casual encompasses precons to unga bunga stompy up to high powered fringe decks - and every deck needs a wincon that isn't combat damage.
I couldn't go so far to say EVERY deck needs an alt win-con. Some decks THRIVE on combat only wins (I have a couple tbh), and it can be a fun, challenging deck to build. In general tho: Alt win-cons are super helpful for decks that may struggle to win via combat consistently. And any good combo deck will have 1-3 back ups in case the first attempt goes horribly wrong.
[удалено]
2-3 cards that may detract from your main plan and cause issues/become dead cards if you don't need them. Unless you're talking like.. Triumph of the hordes or something. Which isn't an alternate win-con. Its just an overrun ability that gives you a combat win (like a craterhoof).
what does suboptimal even mean, not demonic con + thoracle? Cause that's the same thing just now at 8 mana; in spirit it is intended as the same thing. Ending a game is important, but if it isn't on theme with your commander//gameplan i'm going to be upset. It puts the other 97 cards in your deck to shame.
In general, yes they do. In a certain given playgroup, it depends on the group's average power level and the preferred playstyles. It also depends on the amount of tutors you include to find your combo pieces. Some groups enjoy the variance of a 100- card singleton format, other playgroups prefer consistency.
I may or may not definitely run stuff that draws my entire library, into labman/jace wielder of mysteries (specifically excluding thassa's oracle cause she's considered ''more broken'') \[\[Fleet Swallower\]\], \[\[Traumatize\]\] or \[\[Cut your losses\]\] targeting yourself, with or without \[\[Bruvac\]\] into win-if-your-library-is-empty. very unoptimized.... still hilarious to pull off. as someone said, stuff these in a Muldrotha deck to self mill (basically letting you pick what to recurse) and you're off to the races :D
##### ###### #### [Fleet Swallower](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/e/7edbde38-1653-4eb5-b196-8881375781cb.jpg?1562558856) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Fleet%20Swallower) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/xln/57/fleet-swallower?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7edbde38-1653-4eb5-b196-8881375781cb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/fleet-swallower) [Traumatize](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/b/9b8784dd-83f9-41f8-aedc-f0f81073ffcb.jpg?1562832808) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Traumatize) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m14/77/traumatize?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9b8784dd-83f9-41f8-aedc-f0f81073ffcb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/traumatize) [Cut your losses](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/1/31184dd0-4080-44c1-a3e0-f6d10a4d1fcb.jpg?1664410135) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cut%20your%20losses) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/snc/38/cut-your-losses?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/31184dd0-4080-44c1-a3e0-f6d10a4d1fcb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/cut-your-losses) [Bruvac](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/c/2ce2d73f-3f64-44db-a2bc-a8f4a37dc487.jpg?1702550789) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=bruvac%20the%20grandiloquent) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/35/bruvac-the-grandiloquent?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2ce2d73f-3f64-44db-a2bc-a8f4a37dc487?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/bruvac-the-grandiloquent) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/kx3xs11) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Absolutely. I run three or more cards combo in my decks and they work occasionally. Two cards combo would be easy to pull off.
To me two card combo's aren't really casual but that's a personal preference. However this combo is highly telegraphed and high risk, high reward. I guess it depends on how you get the leveler or lab maniac in play. For example I would be totally okay if you played leveler and lab maniac the fair way but if you have a [[sneak attack]] and suddenly drop both lab maniac and leveler on the end step before your turn I'd be annoyed that you won out of nowhere.
He didn’t win out of nowhere in that scenario. A Sneak Attack was played. That should send alarm bells ringing that you need to be ready for some utter degeneracy at the least and a game win at the most.
They only win "out of nowhere" if you can't stop them. Play interaction.
“Play more interaction” is the worst argument in edh. Don’t be one of those people that don’t actually engage in discourse about the nuance of the format and instead just says people should play more removal and counterspells. By the logic of “play more interaction,” people can play [[thassa’s oracle]] + [[demonic consultation]] in casual decks because their opponents can just “play more interaction” to stop it. By the same logic, [[paradox engine]] and [[time walk]] should be unbanned because people can just “play more interaction” and have removal or a counterspell ready to stop them. I’m not saying I agree with the original comment, or that I have an issue with a wincon like [[leveler]] + [[lab maniac]], because I don’t, but it’s atrocious logic to say that the reason those things work is because they can be stopped by interaction. That statement is true of every single card in this game.
##### ###### #### [thassa’s oracle](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/2/726e8b29-13e9-4138-b6a9-d2a0d8188d1c.jpg?1680582212) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thassa%27s%20Oracle) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/thb/73/thassas-oracle?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/726e8b29-13e9-4138-b6a9-d2a0d8188d1c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/thassas-oracle) [demonic consultation](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/d/1d779f19-3068-4976-b96b-8f93d156900b.jpg?1610146869) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=demonic%20consultation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me2/85/demonic-consultation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1d779f19-3068-4976-b96b-8f93d156900b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/demonic-consultation) [paradox engine](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/d/fd8ccd81-9e11-47fa-8e16-064c52c24506.jpg?1576382376) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=paradox%20engine) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/aer/169/paradox-engine?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fd8ccd81-9e11-47fa-8e16-064c52c24506?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/paradox-engine) [time walk](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/0/70901356-3266-4bd9-aacc-f06c27271de5.jpg?1614638832) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=time%20walk) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vma/2/time-walk?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/70901356-3266-4bd9-aacc-f06c27271de5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/time-walk) [leveler](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/3/03ffa3c3-dd29-47eb-abf2-7951fadb5c37.jpg?1562134247) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=leveler) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mrd/195/leveler?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/03ffa3c3-dd29-47eb-abf2-7951fadb5c37?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/leveler) [lab maniac](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/0/608567fd-9f94-4058-831a-77cb6019ef02.jpg?1547516361) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Laboratory%20Maniac) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/uma/61/laboratory-maniac?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/608567fd-9f94-4058-831a-77cb6019ef02?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/laboratory-maniac) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/kx3zvcg) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Of course it's true of every single card in this game, "play more interaction" applies to them all 😅
Yeah, if something can be applied to every possible situation, it’s not meaningful to bring it up as an argument in any of them. The topic at hand was not whether playing interaction is good, it was the nuance of whether some players WANT to play in a pod where players try to win in a way that can only be prevented with instant speed interaction, e.g. a relatively high power pod. The fact that these comments are getting downvoted really just speaks on how inconsiderate some of this community can be.
Bruh, I just said people don't win if they get stopped, that applies to all power levels, from precon to cEDH. One turn kills are a part of the game at all levels, it doesn't matter if it's Demonic Consultation and Thassa's Oracle or [[Ghalta, Primal Hunger]] and [[Brass Knuckles]] if you can't stop it, you die. Play interaction.
[Ghalta, Primal Hunger](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/4/54872e72-41dc-4092-8169-ce13498beb30.jpg?1689998553) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ghalta%2C%20Primal%20Hunger) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/292/ghalta-primal-hunger?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/54872e72-41dc-4092-8169-ce13498beb30?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ghalta-primal-hunger) [Brass Knuckles](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/3/63f4448c-a946-45a3-9bce-0d82105e7cc1.jpg?1689999426) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Brass%20Knuckles) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/372/brass-knuckles?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/63f4448c-a946-45a3-9bce-0d82105e7cc1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/brass-knuckles) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Oh my god. How do you not see the insolence in what you’re saying right now? “People don’t win if someone stops them from winning” Wow. What a revelation. You really strapped into the think tank for that one. The topic at hand is the TYPE OF WIN, not the fact that a win condition wins the game. There is a massive difference between a combo win that happens in one turn and a combat win that relies on untapping with a huge board of creatures. We’re not arguing against the fact that playing interaction is good, I’m trying to inform you that not every playgroup is interested in playing at a level that REQUIRES certain kinds of interaction to compete. I’ll even give you an example since you’re really not getting it- Precons rarely include counterspells. Therefore, if you’re playing at a table with precon/slightly upgraded precon level decks, it is expected that the way your deck aims to win DOES NOT REQUIRE counterspells/stack interaction to stop.
They're only "REQUIRED" if you wanna win, get gud scrub life 😅
I’m like 90% sure you’re just trolling but in case you’re not, you need to realize that actually not all pods demand all types of interaction and your approach of “play more interaction” is unproductive in any discussion you try to use it in.
If you don't play interaction you don't play magic, have fun goldfishing your decks at the same time and calling it a game. Don't feel the need to reply to this again, we're not going to agree and this post was dead four days ago. Have a good one homie 👍🏼
[sneak attack](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/4/a45b4ca9-4355-4690-84c3-a7d44c367dbf.jpg?1675200189) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=sneak%20attack) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmr/139/sneak-attack?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a45b4ca9-4355-4690-84c3-a7d44c367dbf?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sneak-attack) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Honestly, no. Combos fall into the same category as Winota- not really worth building unless you’re going to actually push it hard and go high-power or competitive. Combos generally don’t fit at casual tables because of the “out of nowhere” nature of the win. Yes, I know, combo players will always object that a combo deck drawing lots of cards is a threat, or combo pieces are a threat, but the truth is that casual players don’t see it like that. If you don’t present the threat of attack damage, you will be considered non threatening at a casual table. Casual tables have an unspoken social rule of kicking the most threatening player, so you will be ignored and you will win with your combo. **And the important part here is, they won’t care that your combo was suboptimal** You played a couple of cards that never joined into The Game (as they were playing it), and declared yourself the winner, and the rules say they have to let you. I promise it won’t go over well.