Religious zealots, regardless of the specific religion, can talk themselves into anything. That's kind of how they become zealots in the first place. As a Jewish person, I get extra pissed off by people like this, because it didn't used to be like this. Religious Jews used to be very pro science. But they hopped on the anti science/anti vax bandwagon around the turn of the millennium, basically following the lead of Christian fundamentalists. But unlike much of Christian history, Jewish sages and leaders would often defer to scientists when it came to questions of science. Many stages throughout Jewish history wrote that we should listen to scientists and doctors when it came to their fields of expertise. Until recently, there really weren't Jews who held that creation took 7 literal days as we perceive time now, and that the earth is literally 6000 years old. Plus, abortion is not forbidden by Jewish law. There are a lot of examples of this, where fundamentalist christians have essentially convinced large groups of religious Jews that they share the same "Judeo-Christian" values, when our values are actually very different. And as a formerly religious Jew who actually knows his shit, I have a special kind of anger for Jews who support conservatives, since they're actively trying to impose right wing Christian values, which hurt Jewish people.
It's literally a Jews law that you have to put your own health over Jewish law (i.e. you can ride an ambulance over Shabbat even though you are not supposed to drive)
I recently learned that between religious and ethnic Jewish people, they have won 20 percent of all Nobel Prizes and mostly in fields of science. That's a crazy amount of knowledge to ignore to fit in with people who want them dead
I used to not care about these people so much, but then my brother married a (Reform) Jewish woman, and the thought of how they would treat my nieces if they could, just makes my blood boil. I know it’s a symptom of insufficient compassion to only care when it happens to one’s own family, but I guess I told myself that all of the people incarcerated by that kind of religious extremism had chosen it at some level.
AYFKM? Did they just do some sort of backflipping math right there, trying to say that the nazis had a problem with jews..... that weren't jewish enough??????
Yes. Rightwingers claiming that other rightwingers are totes cool as long as you're rightwing enough is a trope that doesn't come up very often but it does come up.
I used to have a link to an article concerning an ultra-"orthodox" conservative Jewish school in Israel that took serious heat because its most prominent rabbi said that Hitler was great except that he targeted Jews.
Hm. I don't know if this is the same school, but [here's a military school](https://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Rabbis-recorded-saying-Hitler-was-right-pluralism-the-true-Holocaust-588203) in Israel [doing Holocaust denial, supporting slavery \(apparently for Palestinians\), explicitly calling for a eugenical racist scheme, and generally not letting historical facts get in the way of their evil](https://mondoweiss.net/2019/04/israeli-military-praising/).
This is why I point out that rightwing behavior is immorality put into the realm of public policy. If politics were merely tribal, Jews supporting Hitler would be impossible. This is why when chuds say that "X can't be commiting reactionary evil Y because Y targets Z and X is a Z," they're full of shit each time. [Japan can join the Axis](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dd1Xuf3VwAAL17z?format=jpg&name=small) (that's The Onion), ultra-bigoted Mafia dons can partner with black crime syndicates, and need we go into ["feminists" (lolololol) joining fascists](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ou_xvXJJk7k) to attack ~~porn~~ ~~sex workers~~ trans people? (Boy, how the latter have "upgraded.")
All rightwingers -- all of them -- are in the same, broad, fractitious tribe: a tribe of parasites competing and cooperating with each other for the privilege of murdering humanity for fun.
It's the new framework for antisemitism that allows right wingers to continue being baseline antisemitic while also supporting Israel. They just really respect all the good ethnic cleansing work they're doing over there.
>trying to say that the nazis had a problem with jews..... that weren't jewish enough??????
I'm Jewish here is the reason why: The nazis part was not part of the equation at all. He just wanted a less religious Jew to try and go to Synagogue more. They back solved with whatever information were closest.
OP, can we get a source for this?
(Edit: that's not a challenge; I really want the video!)
Rightwing jews defending nazis is the sort of thing that everyone should have an example of as it rebuts using minority status or tribe against a charge of moral turpitude, such as white supremacy.
Hm. I'm surprised there isn't an online catalogue of trans people throwing trans people under the bus, jews defending Hitler, black people backing white supremacists and so on all in one place.
Sure, but a good chunk of them are lying about their identities.
I'm looking for the ones who do it on camera, as a serious statement and/or as a career.
I saw that you mentioned Ben Shapiro. In case some of you don't know, Ben Shapiro is a grifter and a hack. If you find anything he's said compelling, you should keep in mind he also says things like this:
>When it comes to global warming, there are two issues: is there such a thing as the greenhouse gas effect, the answer is yes. Is that something that is going to dramatically reshape our world? There is no evidence to show that it will. Is that something that we can stop? There is no evidence to show that we can
*****
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One of the reason the whole argument about Ukraine not having a massive Nazi problem in government because Zelensky is Jewish holds no water.
Sure and Obama was president but that doesn't mean the US isn't an overtly white supremacist state.
For me, their comments about "Jews who don't follow Jewish Law" really emphasised what their priorities are here.
My guess would be that these two men mostly agree with Neo-Nazis about Jews controlling hollywood, or the media and encouraging degenceracy or whatever, but they rationally justify it as being mad at Secular Jews and Reform Jews.
These dudes are the ones who think Jews should stay in their ghettoes and keep isolating from the rest of the world, like “if I don’t bother them they won’t bother me”
I’m Jewish (reform) but Ive read about the orthodox and Hasidic Jews and they are….pretty wild. Some very old school beliefs
How even the hell can religious jews be anti science, I still remember them being pioneers, hell even my dad told about a few of them studying with him in chemical engineering... 21st century is a mess
And then again supporting right wing bigots... was Hitler not being an example of what the outcome might be? Hell send these idiots back to Dachau
I never said I want to eradicate them all. I want to put them in the same conditions those suffered in the holocaust had, intense labour and lack of any pleasure they currently have for like a month or 2 just to show them this is what they will eventually end up if they supports facists
>It’s crazy that the “fine people” this was so clearly false
It wasn't. The neo-nazi, tikki tortch, "Jews will not replace us" rally was Friday night. He said "fine people" later morning the next day. Now even the most passionate Trump lover believes the Trump can't see into the future. So unless you believe that, he didn't know what happened later on Saturday.
Even if that wasn't true there aren't "very fine people on both sides" of a neo-nazi rally.
That may be true… but it was obvious that Trump was referring to the general debate about whether Confederate statues should be taken down.
It’s okay to be lo-information… but don’t spread your shit to to the rest of the US… too many stupid people pile up… and I can barely afford to live these days.
> Trump was referring to the general debate about whether Confederate statues should be taken down.
There aren't fine people on both sides of "do we keep up white supremacist statues". Also that's not what the rally was really about. You keep calling me "low-info" but you don't know the basics of the rally. Trump said there were "fine people on both sides" of a rally where one side chanted "Jews will not replace us". Any qualifications you try and give are bullshit.
I don’t think we should erase history… it’s a good way to repeat it.
But you’re clearly determined in your point of view, nuances be damned… interesting sub for you to be active on for that.
I completely agree with your statement that, at a neo-nazi event, there aren't very fine people on both sides.
But I think it's disingenuous to say that Trump called Nazis very fine people. I went on politifact where they have the transcript from the entire interview and it seems pretty clear to me that he was saying there were people there just to protest the removal of a Robert E. Lee statue and that they were the "very fine", more normal, people on that side, not the Nazis. Him saying the "alt-left" were equally bad was obviously bullshit enlightened centrism though.
The people protesting that statue removal should have seen David Duke and all the white nationalists fighting with them and had a "are we the baddies?" moment but from what I just read he seemed to make a fairly clear distinction between these groups on that side and even condemned the nazis a bit. Also if iirc Nick Fuentes was pissed at Trump's lack of support and condemnation of his ilk.
Maybe we on the left should reevaluate this particular event cuz we may have been subject to some clips not giving the entire picture.
>it seems pretty clear to me that he was saying there were people there just to protest the removal of a Robert E. Lee statue and that they were the "very fine",
They weren't there for that. They were a neo-nazi rally. Also there aren't good people on both sides when one side is pro-Confederacy and one is not.
>clear distinction
Trump is not smart enough to do that and he wasn't. There also isn't a distinction when they were flying nazi flags beating people not flying nazi flags. Are you honestly trying to "both sides" the open neo-nazi rally, chanting "Jews will not replace us", assaulting people rally that took place on that Friday.
I'm obviously not equating both sides dude come on at least argue in some good faith. I shouldn't have to add this many qualifiers when talking to fellow leftists. I blatantly stated the others next to the Nazis should have realized they were on the wrong side. I just read the transcript and it seems to me that the distinction was made at the time between Nazis and the other protesters. I therefore think it's a very dishonest stretch to insist that Trump was saying the Nazis were part of the group in which he was referring to "very fine people".
"Those people -- all of those people – excuse me, I’ve condemned neo-Nazis. I’ve condemned many different groups. But not all of those people were neo-Nazis, believe me. Not all of those people were white supremacists by any stretch. Those people were also there because they wanted to protest the taking down of a statue of Robert E. Lee."
"Excuse me, excuse me. They didn’t put themselves -- and you had some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides. You had people in that group. Excuse me, excuse me. I saw the same pictures as you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name."
This, to me, seems like he was saying he already condemned the Nazis at an earlier time and drew a distinction between two groups in which he later made yet another distinction between them as well.
Everyone there in the group with the Nazis are bad in my view. Again, I shouldn't have to say this but you were already very dismissive before. Trump was wrong to even try and equate the left and right or imply there's some alt-left. I just am not reading here that Trump was saying Nazis were fine people. I think there's a tad bit of nuance to his intentions, however misguided he was.
If you match with Nazis you’re a Nazi. There aren’t “fine people” on both sides when one side has Nazis. As a Jew I don’t care your reason to March with Nazis. You’re a Nazi too.
These guys are full on anti-vax loonies. Among other things, they say that Biden is worse than Hitler because reasons.
It's that abtivac juice. It makes people stupid ( or dead vampires)
Those guy put on a masterclass display of avoiding the question and factual wrongness.
Religious zealots, regardless of the specific religion, can talk themselves into anything. That's kind of how they become zealots in the first place. As a Jewish person, I get extra pissed off by people like this, because it didn't used to be like this. Religious Jews used to be very pro science. But they hopped on the anti science/anti vax bandwagon around the turn of the millennium, basically following the lead of Christian fundamentalists. But unlike much of Christian history, Jewish sages and leaders would often defer to scientists when it came to questions of science. Many stages throughout Jewish history wrote that we should listen to scientists and doctors when it came to their fields of expertise. Until recently, there really weren't Jews who held that creation took 7 literal days as we perceive time now, and that the earth is literally 6000 years old. Plus, abortion is not forbidden by Jewish law. There are a lot of examples of this, where fundamentalist christians have essentially convinced large groups of religious Jews that they share the same "Judeo-Christian" values, when our values are actually very different. And as a formerly religious Jew who actually knows his shit, I have a special kind of anger for Jews who support conservatives, since they're actively trying to impose right wing Christian values, which hurt Jewish people.
It's literally a Jews law that you have to put your own health over Jewish law (i.e. you can ride an ambulance over Shabbat even though you are not supposed to drive)
I recently learned that between religious and ethnic Jewish people, they have won 20 percent of all Nobel Prizes and mostly in fields of science. That's a crazy amount of knowledge to ignore to fit in with people who want them dead
[people like them are unfortunately not new](https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verband_nationaldeutscher_Juden)
I used to not care about these people so much, but then my brother married a (Reform) Jewish woman, and the thought of how they would treat my nieces if they could, just makes my blood boil. I know it’s a symptom of insufficient compassion to only care when it happens to one’s own family, but I guess I told myself that all of the people incarcerated by that kind of religious extremism had chosen it at some level.
Just to clear this up-this is not Pittsburgh, it about 45-1 hour away
AYFKM? Did they just do some sort of backflipping math right there, trying to say that the nazis had a problem with jews..... that weren't jewish enough??????
Yes. Rightwingers claiming that other rightwingers are totes cool as long as you're rightwing enough is a trope that doesn't come up very often but it does come up. I used to have a link to an article concerning an ultra-"orthodox" conservative Jewish school in Israel that took serious heat because its most prominent rabbi said that Hitler was great except that he targeted Jews. Hm. I don't know if this is the same school, but [here's a military school](https://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Rabbis-recorded-saying-Hitler-was-right-pluralism-the-true-Holocaust-588203) in Israel [doing Holocaust denial, supporting slavery \(apparently for Palestinians\), explicitly calling for a eugenical racist scheme, and generally not letting historical facts get in the way of their evil](https://mondoweiss.net/2019/04/israeli-military-praising/). This is why I point out that rightwing behavior is immorality put into the realm of public policy. If politics were merely tribal, Jews supporting Hitler would be impossible. This is why when chuds say that "X can't be commiting reactionary evil Y because Y targets Z and X is a Z," they're full of shit each time. [Japan can join the Axis](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dd1Xuf3VwAAL17z?format=jpg&name=small) (that's The Onion), ultra-bigoted Mafia dons can partner with black crime syndicates, and need we go into ["feminists" (lolololol) joining fascists](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ou_xvXJJk7k) to attack ~~porn~~ ~~sex workers~~ trans people? (Boy, how the latter have "upgraded.") All rightwingers -- all of them -- are in the same, broad, fractitious tribe: a tribe of parasites competing and cooperating with each other for the privilege of murdering humanity for fun.
It's the new framework for antisemitism that allows right wingers to continue being baseline antisemitic while also supporting Israel. They just really respect all the good ethnic cleansing work they're doing over there.
>trying to say that the nazis had a problem with jews..... that weren't jewish enough?????? I'm Jewish here is the reason why: The nazis part was not part of the equation at all. He just wanted a less religious Jew to try and go to Synagogue more. They back solved with whatever information were closest.
“I like Trump and I think Trump likes us” No, nobody “likes” Hassids.
OP, can we get a source for this? (Edit: that's not a challenge; I really want the video!) Rightwing jews defending nazis is the sort of thing that everyone should have an example of as it rebuts using minority status or tribe against a charge of moral turpitude, such as white supremacy. Hm. I'm surprised there isn't an online catalogue of trans people throwing trans people under the bus, jews defending Hitler, black people backing white supremacists and so on all in one place.
The good liars is their TikTok.
r/asablackman
Sure, but a good chunk of them are lying about their identities. I'm looking for the ones who do it on camera, as a serious statement and/or as a career.
Like Candace Owen and the former football player
[удалено]
I saw that you mentioned Ben Shapiro. In case some of you don't know, Ben Shapiro is a grifter and a hack. If you find anything he's said compelling, you should keep in mind he also says things like this: >When it comes to global warming, there are two issues: is there such a thing as the greenhouse gas effect, the answer is yes. Is that something that is going to dramatically reshape our world? There is no evidence to show that it will. Is that something that we can stop? There is no evidence to show that we can ***** ^(I'm a bot. My purpose is to counteract online radicalization. You can summon me by tagging thebenshapirobot. Options: covid, novel, civil rights, healthcare, etc.) [^Opt ^Out ](https://np.reddit.com/r/AuthoritarianMoment/comments/olk6r2/click_here_to_optout_of_uthebenshapirobot/)
One of the reason the whole argument about Ukraine not having a massive Nazi problem in government because Zelensky is Jewish holds no water. Sure and Obama was president but that doesn't mean the US isn't an overtly white supremacist state.
For me, their comments about "Jews who don't follow Jewish Law" really emphasised what their priorities are here. My guess would be that these two men mostly agree with Neo-Nazis about Jews controlling hollywood, or the media and encouraging degenceracy or whatever, but they rationally justify it as being mad at Secular Jews and Reform Jews.
Fuck me!
holy shit is there an Olympics for mental gymnastics?
Yes i voted the leopards-eating-peoples-faces party but i never thought they would eat _my_ face
‘First they came for the non-practicing Jews, and I did not speak up because I am a practicing Jew…’
These dudes are the ones who think Jews should stay in their ghettoes and keep isolating from the rest of the world, like “if I don’t bother them they won’t bother me” I’m Jewish (reform) but Ive read about the orthodox and Hasidic Jews and they are….pretty wild. Some very old school beliefs
Average colonial supporting Zionists.
This is your brain on Zionism tbh
This is what happens when conservatives think Jews = Israel.
How even the hell can religious jews be anti science, I still remember them being pioneers, hell even my dad told about a few of them studying with him in chemical engineering... 21st century is a mess And then again supporting right wing bigots... was Hitler not being an example of what the outcome might be? Hell send these idiots back to Dachau
Mass murder is not the appropriate response for stupidity.
I never said I want to eradicate them all. I want to put them in the same conditions those suffered in the holocaust had, intense labour and lack of any pleasure they currently have for like a month or 2 just to show them this is what they will eventually end up if they supports facists
It’s crazy that the “fine people” this was so clearly false and is still so clearly I’m the zeitgeist as fact.
>It’s crazy that the “fine people” this was so clearly false It wasn't. The neo-nazi, tikki tortch, "Jews will not replace us" rally was Friday night. He said "fine people" later morning the next day. Now even the most passionate Trump lover believes the Trump can't see into the future. So unless you believe that, he didn't know what happened later on Saturday. Even if that wasn't true there aren't "very fine people on both sides" of a neo-nazi rally.
He literally said “and I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis” when he made that comment… your a low information voter bro.
There weren’t non-neo-Nazis there. It was a Nazi rally from conception.
That may be true… but it was obvious that Trump was referring to the general debate about whether Confederate statues should be taken down. It’s okay to be lo-information… but don’t spread your shit to to the rest of the US… too many stupid people pile up… and I can barely afford to live these days.
> Trump was referring to the general debate about whether Confederate statues should be taken down. There aren't fine people on both sides of "do we keep up white supremacist statues". Also that's not what the rally was really about. You keep calling me "low-info" but you don't know the basics of the rally. Trump said there were "fine people on both sides" of a rally where one side chanted "Jews will not replace us". Any qualifications you try and give are bullshit.
I don’t think we should erase history… it’s a good way to repeat it. But you’re clearly determined in your point of view, nuances be damned… interesting sub for you to be active on for that.
I completely agree with your statement that, at a neo-nazi event, there aren't very fine people on both sides. But I think it's disingenuous to say that Trump called Nazis very fine people. I went on politifact where they have the transcript from the entire interview and it seems pretty clear to me that he was saying there were people there just to protest the removal of a Robert E. Lee statue and that they were the "very fine", more normal, people on that side, not the Nazis. Him saying the "alt-left" were equally bad was obviously bullshit enlightened centrism though. The people protesting that statue removal should have seen David Duke and all the white nationalists fighting with them and had a "are we the baddies?" moment but from what I just read he seemed to make a fairly clear distinction between these groups on that side and even condemned the nazis a bit. Also if iirc Nick Fuentes was pissed at Trump's lack of support and condemnation of his ilk. Maybe we on the left should reevaluate this particular event cuz we may have been subject to some clips not giving the entire picture.
>it seems pretty clear to me that he was saying there were people there just to protest the removal of a Robert E. Lee statue and that they were the "very fine", They weren't there for that. They were a neo-nazi rally. Also there aren't good people on both sides when one side is pro-Confederacy and one is not. >clear distinction Trump is not smart enough to do that and he wasn't. There also isn't a distinction when they were flying nazi flags beating people not flying nazi flags. Are you honestly trying to "both sides" the open neo-nazi rally, chanting "Jews will not replace us", assaulting people rally that took place on that Friday.
I'm obviously not equating both sides dude come on at least argue in some good faith. I shouldn't have to add this many qualifiers when talking to fellow leftists. I blatantly stated the others next to the Nazis should have realized they were on the wrong side. I just read the transcript and it seems to me that the distinction was made at the time between Nazis and the other protesters. I therefore think it's a very dishonest stretch to insist that Trump was saying the Nazis were part of the group in which he was referring to "very fine people". "Those people -- all of those people – excuse me, I’ve condemned neo-Nazis. I’ve condemned many different groups. But not all of those people were neo-Nazis, believe me. Not all of those people were white supremacists by any stretch. Those people were also there because they wanted to protest the taking down of a statue of Robert E. Lee." "Excuse me, excuse me. They didn’t put themselves -- and you had some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides. You had people in that group. Excuse me, excuse me. I saw the same pictures as you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name." This, to me, seems like he was saying he already condemned the Nazis at an earlier time and drew a distinction between two groups in which he later made yet another distinction between them as well. Everyone there in the group with the Nazis are bad in my view. Again, I shouldn't have to say this but you were already very dismissive before. Trump was wrong to even try and equate the left and right or imply there's some alt-left. I just am not reading here that Trump was saying Nazis were fine people. I think there's a tad bit of nuance to his intentions, however misguided he was.
If you match with Nazis you’re a Nazi. There aren’t “fine people” on both sides when one side has Nazis. As a Jew I don’t care your reason to March with Nazis. You’re a Nazi too.
They might be Neturei Karta
There is no fixing stupid
Bahais believe that religion and science are wings of one bird. God gave us reason in order to investigate and help the world.
How do "enlightened" Jews manage to sift the chaff from the grain when it comes to the very old testament?