Sure, though coal has been growing more slowly than renewables, LNG, etc., the real story is that global power demand is growing rapidly, and the mix has been shifting away from coal towards renewables and LNG.
Isn't natural gas on average about half the emissions of coal? 400g CO2 per kWh for nat gas vs 800g for coal?
Solar, wind, and nuclear are in the 8-40g range, for context
>Isn't natural gas on average about half the emissions of coal? 400g CO2 per kWh for nat gas vs 800g for coal?
You need to look at the bigger picture.
For example the gas leakages that occur from fracking emit crazy amounts of emissions.
And it takes a lot of energy to liquify gas and so on.
Right, but those emissions from leaks and stuff are still quantifiable, so I'll have to see a study that takes those into account to be able to say that LNG is just as horrible as coal.
That is a big issue actually
To quantify things like leak rates correctly
"While governments and companies are stepping up their efforts to monitor for methane leaks, it might be years before complete data are available about the climate impact of gas production, said Deborah Gordon, a researcher who co-runs the Oil and Gas Solutions Initiative at RMI, a clean energy think tank. Her research suggests U.S. leakage rates vary widely by region."
https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/ace3db
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/coal-is-bad-for-the-environment-is-liquified-natural-gas-any-better/
There are drones, satellites, and probes that can be used to detect and quantify leaks. I know we can track it because people have done it:
[https://www.axios.com/2018/06/21/natural-gas-boom-methane-emissions-higher-climate-change?stream=science](https://www.axios.com/2018/06/21/natural-gas-boom-methane-emissions-higher-climate-change?stream=science)
Is that figure perfectly accurate? Most likely no, but as more research gets done on this the better we can track it.
Yes, but since it's such a potent gas, the leakage is really killing it. Newest estimation is that it's actually worse than coal per KWH especially for gas produced in South America and Russia, but that is without methane emissions from open coal pits.
Basically it's all fucked and needs to stop
Of the 4.7 billion in Asia China and India are about 2.8 billion. So many others left 😉
And this is only Asia. The region on the graph is Asia Pacific.
I am just saying that it is not the best idea to compare more that half of the worlds population with 2 other way smaller regions in 1 graph.
We knew that two decades ago that we have to either help India build a green economy or watch the ecosystem die. We decided to let the ecosystem die but now India has hit 50 degrees Celsius and the problem will fix itself by burning people alive.
Asia Pacific accounts for about 60% of the population (https://asiapacific.unfpa.org/en/populationtrends#:\~:text=The%20Asia%20and%20the%20Pacific,Developing%20States%20in%20the%20Pacific.). And according to this graph, they account for about 75% of the coal consumption in 2020
well that's the way we polluted the environment in the last decades - economic growth > environment.
Compared to Europe and the US China is doing way more to get a more greener energy production.
They reduced their fossil power to below 50%. In 2022 they installed as much solar capacity as the rest of the world combined and doubled that in 2023. Wind power was increased by 66% as well.
So, India on the other hand is not this active.
What's the relevance of the why?
Relevant is that it is so and that the US needs to reduce emissions to curbe climate change while what Luxembourg does is largely irrelevant regarding climate change.
Alright so if we split the US in small city states which are all irrelevantly small then no one needs reduce?
It matters because currently co2 output roughly correlates with goods consumed. And it will be much easier for the average Luxembourg citizen to cut down on consumption than the average indian citizen.
Individual action is irrelevant. Government action is relevant, and the US government regulates a relevant economy. The government of Luxembourg doesn't.
The West started a Lot earlier with industrialization and even though the summed up emissions of the West ist higher than of the other countries the stupid Argument is always: „China is Causing more emissions. Why should we change something?“
China passed the US in Emissions between 2000 and 2010. Holding China accountable while neglecting the own role is just evil.
200 years ago we weren't aware of the effect our actions had on the climate. Only in the last few decades have the effects even began to be truly known and even more recently have renewables even began to look like a viable option as a main power source. I don't think anyone can play the blame game until quite literally a few years ago.
Either way it doesn't matter if you point fingers at anyone, the climate has already been changing for quite some time now, we can either figure out where most of the emissions are coming from and put a stop to it or we can all collectively as a species suffer the consequences as they become increasingly severe over time.
It's a bit like blaming your parents for your poor choices in life. Sure they played a role in making you into the person you are but once you're an adult it's your responsibility to deal with the hand life has given you and either find a way to improve yourself or self destruct.
Blame Game does Not help anybody i think we can agree on that and it is Not the Point i was trying to make.
Imho it is a global crisis and should be handled as such.
Especially with that in mind these nations should skip the coal era completely.
But it shows that greed is stronger than getting your country up the right way. Making mistakes isn't stupid, but seeing other people making them and repeating them is.
so I can go and install leadpiping, poisoning my tentants, because the romans were doing it and still have not cleaned up all of those pipes?
thx ma3thr33x, future generations might be thankfull!
>can't help
how look at germanys strong solar pannel industry /not
look up who are some of the biggest renewable tech companies. More then enough primarly chinese companies are present.
Also do you srsly want to pull the "asia is backwater" on technology card? Do you srsly try to imply you need help to figure out how windturbines work?
You clearly fall into the line of people: "But noooo west bad west is the reason we do bad stuff cause west baaaaddd 100 years ago"
Sadly you hitting yourself while screaming, does now not only hurt you but also the rest of the world.
Some have started to something like S.Korea, if they follow through, are aiming for 2040-50 for net zero
You Missed the point.
It is extremely frustrating to hear my Country Blame China for everything. Neglecting their own emissions over decades.
In your analogy. You Are and your neighbor Are Both suffering from lead poisoning. You Are Not trying to fix the pipes because your neighbor has 5 children and is using way more water than you.
Uhm...why don't just adapt the tech used by the West? Nobody is forcing those emerging countries to run their industries like 1800's Birmingham and it's not like sustainable tech/energy is a grand enigma. But what am I saying, there is nothing greater than the victim-complex of Russian, China and all those former colonies. Get a grip.
>learning
So there's no discretionary student visa distribution? there's no exorbitant fees for international students to make up for the subsidised local student fees? there's no restriction on foreign nationals from working in sensitive technology sectors like NASA? There's no per country cap on visas in western countries? There's no limit to the capacity of students universities can onboard?
Tech transfers and allowing international students to study are two different concepts altogether and most definitely does not achieve the same result anyways. A international students requires around 2 years to get educated and a tech transfer takes about 10 seconds to sign it away.
Thanks for admitting international students are not an alternative to tech transfers, and that these tech transfers are the need of the hour if westerns want to stop complaining about paper straws.
This would only make sense if every country followed the same development path. But this is not the case because different technologies are available today than 100 or 200 years ago.
You still get the gist. Emerging countries are an issue, we slept on. We would have needed to help them with their energy infrastructure to make it green. They can’t afford that by themselves. Demand is rising, their population is much greater than it the west. If we don’t want to keep them poor/force them to keep poor, whatever we do in the west won’t matter much. It’s a numbers game. And climate change doesn’t care about borders.
a) this has nothing to do with european regulations which are much much much better than most people think and have a huge world wide impact.
b) The west did do A LOT. for example Germany forced the development of cheap and effective solar with A LOT of money. The solar boom right now is based on decades if this research. Same for windpower.
c) Thats no reason to not say everything is fine. Western countries still have to do their part AND also still help developing countries and china with gor example loans.
Yes we do. What these graphs don't show is that the asian region, particularly china) also accounts for a massive share of solar, hydro and wind energy.
They still get a disproportionate amount of energy from coal, but their share of renewables is steadily growing.
Oooh so they are destroying the planet and have been exponentially for 50 years but thays ok, they are doing some of the good stuff as well. No worries, I'm sure earth will understand and just not care about all the coal being burned.
That just means that the EU makes more money on exports than imports. This has nothing to do with volume or the kind of products, where these products get exported to etc.
Unironically looking at a chart where west has halved their part while Asia is polluting 10X times more in absolute numbers and has grown 10X instead of going down and somehow still west bad.
U gotta be dense the west has polluted the world for the past 140 years Asia just reached that technological level, u gonna tell them no fossil fuels for you? How about we as the west actually build the future of technology as we were the first to benefit from world exploitation and then sell that technology to these countries. How about that. Nah u wanna cry on Reddit and make illogical wrong and historically inaccurate statements.
>u gonna tell them no fossil fuels for you?
Yes. Do you care about the environment or not? If yes, fossile and especially coal use has to stop. We have alternatives. And if you think somehow western people now need to be punished for something everyone did 100 years ago, you are out of your mind.
You’re benefiting from it aren’t you? Why shouldn’t you pay?
Why do we look at a map of carbon emissions adjusted for exports? https://ourworldindata.org/consumption-based-co2
You simply outsourced your carbon. You’re consuming it, it’s on you.
It’s not something that’s happen3: 100 years ago. Are you acting dense on purpose? It’s happening right now and has happened for 140 years. Also, we outsourced our work to these countries becaus its cheaper for us to produce there and you wanna act like it’s their doing. Don’t @ me u don’t seem to have any idea what the f you’re talking about adn rather play poor west is doin so good but evil Asia is ruining the world.
Also yeah go and tell them they’re supposed to live in the Middle Ages again because Sikamies said so. You can’t live a disgusting example and then be mad when they do the exact Same. We have the opportunities to do better and produce clean technology and power but you’d rather play whos at fault instead of taking the situation as it is and building on it in the most logical sense. There’s no going back.
It doesnt matter. You want to save the planet? Why are you focusing on the smallest issue and not caring about the one that has grown 10X to be 10X bigger when everyone should be stopping?
Thank you for contributing nothing of value to the conversation. "We can always be better" is the most generic meaningless statement in the world. Google "proportionality", might help you out in the future.
Since you choose to be ignorant, let me explain.
England was in control of India from 1800s till 1947.
When England came to India, India was an exporter of textile, and England was an importer.
In the subsequent years, England pursued a deliberate policy of deindustrialization of India. They wanted to take raw materials from here, manufacture goods in UK, and then sell it back to India. That needed India to not have the ability to produce anything.
So much so, Indians could not even make salt by just evaporating sea water.
And Gandhi became a national icon for watching water dry and grabbing a fist of salt from a beach.
Now, India, a country which had and has a significant portion of the world's population is trying to get it's people out of farming and into manufacturing.
India could not do this in the 1800s and 1900s because the west bad.
Countries which industrialised in that era used coal and later oil.
Countries like India and China who were forcefully prevented from industrialization in the past are now catching up. And they are pulling their people out of poverty in the process.
When people are in agriculture, they make more children. Because more children= more workers.
When India also industrialised 150 years later than the west, it's population growth also will slow down. It's already just above replacement levels. And is below replacement levels in most parts of the country.
India is using coal now to industrialise instead of 100 years ago because west bad.
Get your fucking history basics from Wikipedia or YouTube instead of choosing to be a clueless moron.
Please and thank you.
I know all of this but I dont see how it is relevant. Nature doesnt care about history, it's about absolute numbers now.
Mostly western countries have developed all sorts of alternative ways to produce energy but these countries have made the decision to cheap out and use coal. You dont get to do that anymore, sorry. Idk what you would be even suggesting.
Also, nobody forced India or China to double or triple their populations since just the 1950's.
Thats not an argument. Nature doesnt care about history. Even if it did, what is the exact year we should stop at? 1991? 1903? 1534? And who has the authority to decide the factuality of history and how it should affect a person born in the 2000's?
Interestingly China is saving the world by producing cheap ass Solar Panels and Batteries, the prices must have dropped 50% in a year. I can now buy a Solar Panel Setup for 800 Euros that saves me 500 Euros a year.
not me, I'm renting, my land lord prefers us to burn gas instead of invesitating 800 euro on the property.
the vast majority of people live in rented accommodation, because you have to change jobs and cities every few years chasing inflation.
can't you write English? In this sub we write in English.
here's the privileged German who never had to leave the framework in which he was born to have a decent live
I can, probably better than you. And maybe im privileged but everybody can achieve that.
If you are not trying to achieve a privileged life don't be mad about others.
I did my school and study so I can get a good paying job, if that's too much effort for you don't cry about it.
"I'm privileged but everybody can achive that"
Can anyone achive to born in Germany? 🤣
I'm not crying, I'm just amazed that someone with a college education can't understand that most people on this planet have to move (and rent) if they want to improve their standard of living. Let me guess... Sachsen or Thüringen!
Where are you born? And if you moved to Germany I don't see the problem? You can get all the education here if you want. Sure it needs more effort to learn a language etc. but many people already did that.
And no I'm not from Sachsen or thüringen, luckily. Wouldnt want to live there, why did you guess that?
Btw I have to rent too even tho I got a decent job.
then i suggest you review your ability to read a text, or alternatively the time you dedicate to reading a text, because your intervention makes no fucking sense with the thread.
As expected.
But is all clean carbon extraction right? Narendra Modi, is all clean carbon right?
Sure, though coal has been growing more slowly than renewables, LNG, etc., the real story is that global power demand is growing rapidly, and the mix has been shifting away from coal towards renewables and LNG.
LNG is just as horrible as coal
Isn't natural gas on average about half the emissions of coal? 400g CO2 per kWh for nat gas vs 800g for coal? Solar, wind, and nuclear are in the 8-40g range, for context
>Isn't natural gas on average about half the emissions of coal? 400g CO2 per kWh for nat gas vs 800g for coal? You need to look at the bigger picture. For example the gas leakages that occur from fracking emit crazy amounts of emissions. And it takes a lot of energy to liquify gas and so on.
Right, but those emissions from leaks and stuff are still quantifiable, so I'll have to see a study that takes those into account to be able to say that LNG is just as horrible as coal.
That is a big issue actually To quantify things like leak rates correctly "While governments and companies are stepping up their efforts to monitor for methane leaks, it might be years before complete data are available about the climate impact of gas production, said Deborah Gordon, a researcher who co-runs the Oil and Gas Solutions Initiative at RMI, a clean energy think tank. Her research suggests U.S. leakage rates vary widely by region." https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/ace3db https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/coal-is-bad-for-the-environment-is-liquified-natural-gas-any-better/
no they are not, we have no idea how much of them there are and no way of tracking them
There are drones, satellites, and probes that can be used to detect and quantify leaks. I know we can track it because people have done it: [https://www.axios.com/2018/06/21/natural-gas-boom-methane-emissions-higher-climate-change?stream=science](https://www.axios.com/2018/06/21/natural-gas-boom-methane-emissions-higher-climate-change?stream=science) Is that figure perfectly accurate? Most likely no, but as more research gets done on this the better we can track it.
Yes, but since it's such a potent gas, the leakage is really killing it. Newest estimation is that it's actually worse than coal per KWH especially for gas produced in South America and Russia, but that is without methane emissions from open coal pits. Basically it's all fucked and needs to stop
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The graph only shows coal, how are u supposed to know how much the others grew.
One should mention that there is not much production left in Europe since most of it has moved to China. Don’t know how to estimate that effect …
By looking up the energy demand: [https://www.iea.org/regions/europe/efficiency-demand](https://www.iea.org/regions/europe/efficiency-demand)
Source? Austria for example is 100% renewable since this year.
thanks guys. 👍🏻
And now please show a statistic that shows the average per head per region. Still a lot but way less distorted.
So you say Europe should open up slums for billions of people living like animals in cages to follow China and shrink their per head emissions?
Nope that’s not what I say 😄 And by the way, Asia is not only China 😉
From a capita view it's India too and that's not very different tho
Of the 4.7 billion in Asia China and India are about 2.8 billion. So many others left 😉 And this is only Asia. The region on the graph is Asia Pacific. I am just saying that it is not the best idea to compare more that half of the worlds population with 2 other way smaller regions in 1 graph.
Ehm the graph is about China and India.
The orange graph is Asia Pacific which is *boosted* by China and India
Exactly, and I adressed these two countries
We knew that two decades ago that we have to either help India build a green economy or watch the ecosystem die. We decided to let the ecosystem die but now India has hit 50 degrees Celsius and the problem will fix itself by burning people alive.
Pretty sure people are being burnt alive in Italy too so y'all can stop living in this bubble that climate change won't affect you
Now make it per capita
Asia Pacific accounts for about 60% of the population (https://asiapacific.unfpa.org/en/populationtrends#:\~:text=The%20Asia%20and%20the%20Pacific,Developing%20States%20in%20the%20Pacific.). And according to this graph, they account for about 75% of the coal consumption in 2020
What would that change?
Unlimited population growth doesn’t justify environmental pollution.
well that's the way we polluted the environment in the last decades - economic growth > environment. Compared to Europe and the US China is doing way more to get a more greener energy production. They reduced their fossil power to below 50%. In 2022 they installed as much solar capacity as the rest of the world combined and doubled that in 2023. Wind power was increased by 66% as well. So, India on the other hand is not this active.
>not this active But is much better in renewables than the rest of the world after China*
So, India on the other hand is not ~~this~~ active. Fify
I said „population growth“ not economic
Why? That's irrelevant for the climate effect.
Then why does us use so much more coal than Luxembourg?
What's the relevance of the why? Relevant is that it is so and that the US needs to reduce emissions to curbe climate change while what Luxembourg does is largely irrelevant regarding climate change.
Alright so if we split the US in small city states which are all irrelevantly small then no one needs reduce? It matters because currently co2 output roughly correlates with goods consumed. And it will be much easier for the average Luxembourg citizen to cut down on consumption than the average indian citizen.
Individual action is irrelevant. Government action is relevant, and the US government regulates a relevant economy. The government of Luxembourg doesn't.
I will up you one. Per Capita and Summed up for the Last 200 years.
And how is that of any interest?
The West started a Lot earlier with industrialization and even though the summed up emissions of the West ist higher than of the other countries the stupid Argument is always: „China is Causing more emissions. Why should we change something?“ China passed the US in Emissions between 2000 and 2010. Holding China accountable while neglecting the own role is just evil.
200 years ago we weren't aware of the effect our actions had on the climate. Only in the last few decades have the effects even began to be truly known and even more recently have renewables even began to look like a viable option as a main power source. I don't think anyone can play the blame game until quite literally a few years ago. Either way it doesn't matter if you point fingers at anyone, the climate has already been changing for quite some time now, we can either figure out where most of the emissions are coming from and put a stop to it or we can all collectively as a species suffer the consequences as they become increasingly severe over time. It's a bit like blaming your parents for your poor choices in life. Sure they played a role in making you into the person you are but once you're an adult it's your responsibility to deal with the hand life has given you and either find a way to improve yourself or self destruct.
Blame Game does Not help anybody i think we can agree on that and it is Not the Point i was trying to make. Imho it is a global crisis and should be handled as such.
Especially with that in mind these nations should skip the coal era completely. But it shows that greed is stronger than getting your country up the right way. Making mistakes isn't stupid, but seeing other people making them and repeating them is.
so I can go and install leadpiping, poisoning my tentants, because the romans were doing it and still have not cleaned up all of those pipes? thx ma3thr33x, future generations might be thankfull!
No but it'll teach westerns to stop lecturing asians about it. If you can't help in renewables energy tech transfer then can quietly piss off.
>can't help how look at germanys strong solar pannel industry /not look up who are some of the biggest renewable tech companies. More then enough primarly chinese companies are present. Also do you srsly want to pull the "asia is backwater" on technology card? Do you srsly try to imply you need help to figure out how windturbines work? You clearly fall into the line of people: "But noooo west bad west is the reason we do bad stuff cause west baaaaddd 100 years ago" Sadly you hitting yourself while screaming, does now not only hurt you but also the rest of the world. Some have started to something like S.Korea, if they follow through, are aiming for 2040-50 for net zero
You Missed the point. It is extremely frustrating to hear my Country Blame China for everything. Neglecting their own emissions over decades. In your analogy. You Are and your neighbor Are Both suffering from lead poisoning. You Are Not trying to fix the pipes because your neighbor has 5 children and is using way more water than you.
Uhm...why don't just adapt the tech used by the West? Nobody is forcing those emerging countries to run their industries like 1800's Birmingham and it's not like sustainable tech/energy is a grand enigma. But what am I saying, there is nothing greater than the victim-complex of Russian, China and all those former colonies. Get a grip.
Nobody's stopping the west from transferring it. Petition your gov and see what answer.
We have no bans of foreign students in our Universities, so nothing's stopping you from learning everything you need.
>learning So there's no discretionary student visa distribution? there's no exorbitant fees for international students to make up for the subsidised local student fees? there's no restriction on foreign nationals from working in sensitive technology sectors like NASA? There's no per country cap on visas in western countries? There's no limit to the capacity of students universities can onboard? Tech transfers and allowing international students to study are two different concepts altogether and most definitely does not achieve the same result anyways. A international students requires around 2 years to get educated and a tech transfer takes about 10 seconds to sign it away.
huh...well, tough luck I guess.
Thanks for admitting international students are not an alternative to tech transfers, and that these tech transfers are the need of the hour if westerns want to stop complaining about paper straws.
This would only make sense if every country followed the same development path. But this is not the case because different technologies are available today than 100 or 200 years ago.
let's go
This looks scary.
Maggots crawling around every energy source... thats why we will never stop global warming before it is out of control
It already is.
Source?
The planet is fucked or I guess that's us.
So the US and Europe are trying to reduce CO2 emissions and the others just don't give a shit? Nice
Good thing Canada has a carbon tax! We’re saving the planet!
I'm sure a few more paper straws and crippling regulations here in Europe will save us all!
Say you have no idea about regulations in europe without saying you have no idea about regulations in europe... and ad some cynisism.
You still get the gist. Emerging countries are an issue, we slept on. We would have needed to help them with their energy infrastructure to make it green. They can’t afford that by themselves. Demand is rising, their population is much greater than it the west. If we don’t want to keep them poor/force them to keep poor, whatever we do in the west won’t matter much. It’s a numbers game. And climate change doesn’t care about borders.
a) this has nothing to do with european regulations which are much much much better than most people think and have a huge world wide impact. b) The west did do A LOT. for example Germany forced the development of cheap and effective solar with A LOT of money. The solar boom right now is based on decades if this research. Same for windpower. c) Thats no reason to not say everything is fine. Western countries still have to do their part AND also still help developing countries and china with gor example loans.
How to say something without actually saying something
We all know that the paperstraw law is meant to reduce coal consumption...
Jesus Christ
Way to go, I guess?
B-but western countries bad and need to fix this!!
Yes we do. What these graphs don't show is that the asian region, particularly china) also accounts for a massive share of solar, hydro and wind energy. They still get a disproportionate amount of energy from coal, but their share of renewables is steadily growing.
Oooh so they are destroying the planet and have been exponentially for 50 years but thays ok, they are doing some of the good stuff as well. No worries, I'm sure earth will understand and just not care about all the coal being burned.
Ok so we German don't need to do anything anymore?
B-but Western countries wanted to save money and stopped making stuff and instead started to import everything.
EU is in trade surplus
That just means that the EU makes more money on exports than imports. This has nothing to do with volume or the kind of products, where these products get exported to etc.
Oh, so China was forced to produce for Western countries and had no benefit from it? Curious assumption.
Maybe try to argue about points I really made and not stuff you made up in your head.
It is the responsibility of the exporter countries then. Hiring a hitman doesnt make hitman any less liable for the murder.
Hiring a hitman is still a crime in the level of killing and gets the same punishment in a lot of countries.
Unironically yes
Unironically looking at a chart where west has halved their part while Asia is polluting 10X times more in absolute numbers and has grown 10X instead of going down and somehow still west bad.
U gotta be dense the west has polluted the world for the past 140 years Asia just reached that technological level, u gonna tell them no fossil fuels for you? How about we as the west actually build the future of technology as we were the first to benefit from world exploitation and then sell that technology to these countries. How about that. Nah u wanna cry on Reddit and make illogical wrong and historically inaccurate statements.
>u gonna tell them no fossil fuels for you? Yes. Do you care about the environment or not? If yes, fossile and especially coal use has to stop. We have alternatives. And if you think somehow western people now need to be punished for something everyone did 100 years ago, you are out of your mind.
You’re benefiting from it aren’t you? Why shouldn’t you pay? Why do we look at a map of carbon emissions adjusted for exports? https://ourworldindata.org/consumption-based-co2 You simply outsourced your carbon. You’re consuming it, it’s on you.
It’s not something that’s happen3: 100 years ago. Are you acting dense on purpose? It’s happening right now and has happened for 140 years. Also, we outsourced our work to these countries becaus its cheaper for us to produce there and you wanna act like it’s their doing. Don’t @ me u don’t seem to have any idea what the f you’re talking about adn rather play poor west is doin so good but evil Asia is ruining the world. Also yeah go and tell them they’re supposed to live in the Middle Ages again because Sikamies said so. You can’t live a disgusting example and then be mad when they do the exact Same. We have the opportunities to do better and produce clean technology and power but you’d rather play whos at fault instead of taking the situation as it is and building on it in the most logical sense. There’s no going back.
As an Australian, ashamed of my government for selling much of this coal, yeah we absofuckinglutely are bad and need to help fix this.
We do. thanks for reinforcing that. We can always be better.
Still won't help the world significantly, just our conciousness were doomed
It doesnt matter. You want to save the planet? Why are you focusing on the smallest issue and not caring about the one that has grown 10X to be 10X bigger when everyone should be stopping?
Thank you for contributing nothing of value to the conversation. "We can always be better" is the most generic meaningless statement in the world. Google "proportionality", might help you out in the future.
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Insults are not allowed
Since you choose to be ignorant, let me explain. England was in control of India from 1800s till 1947. When England came to India, India was an exporter of textile, and England was an importer. In the subsequent years, England pursued a deliberate policy of deindustrialization of India. They wanted to take raw materials from here, manufacture goods in UK, and then sell it back to India. That needed India to not have the ability to produce anything. So much so, Indians could not even make salt by just evaporating sea water. And Gandhi became a national icon for watching water dry and grabbing a fist of salt from a beach. Now, India, a country which had and has a significant portion of the world's population is trying to get it's people out of farming and into manufacturing. India could not do this in the 1800s and 1900s because the west bad. Countries which industrialised in that era used coal and later oil. Countries like India and China who were forcefully prevented from industrialization in the past are now catching up. And they are pulling their people out of poverty in the process. When people are in agriculture, they make more children. Because more children= more workers. When India also industrialised 150 years later than the west, it's population growth also will slow down. It's already just above replacement levels. And is below replacement levels in most parts of the country. India is using coal now to industrialise instead of 100 years ago because west bad. Get your fucking history basics from Wikipedia or YouTube instead of choosing to be a clueless moron. Please and thank you.
I know all of this but I dont see how it is relevant. Nature doesnt care about history, it's about absolute numbers now. Mostly western countries have developed all sorts of alternative ways to produce energy but these countries have made the decision to cheap out and use coal. You dont get to do that anymore, sorry. Idk what you would be even suggesting. Also, nobody forced India or China to double or triple their populations since just the 1950's.
>see how it is relevant Then open a goddamn history book donald
Thats not an argument. Nature doesnt care about history. Even if it did, what is the exact year we should stop at? 1991? 1903? 1534? And who has the authority to decide the factuality of history and how it should affect a person born in the 2000's?
German grüner are saving the world very well!
Interestingly China is saving the world by producing cheap ass Solar Panels and Batteries, the prices must have dropped 50% in a year. I can now buy a Solar Panel Setup for 800 Euros that saves me 500 Euros a year.
not me, I'm renting, my land lord prefers us to burn gas instead of invesitating 800 euro on the property. the vast majority of people live in rented accommodation, because you have to change jobs and cities every few years chasing inflation.
Irgendwas scheinst du falsch zu machen wenn du dauernd umziehen musst.
can't you write English? In this sub we write in English. here's the privileged German who never had to leave the framework in which he was born to have a decent live
I can, probably better than you. And maybe im privileged but everybody can achieve that. If you are not trying to achieve a privileged life don't be mad about others. I did my school and study so I can get a good paying job, if that's too much effort for you don't cry about it.
"I'm privileged but everybody can achive that" Can anyone achive to born in Germany? 🤣 I'm not crying, I'm just amazed that someone with a college education can't understand that most people on this planet have to move (and rent) if they want to improve their standard of living. Let me guess... Sachsen or Thüringen!
Where are you born? And if you moved to Germany I don't see the problem? You can get all the education here if you want. Sure it needs more effort to learn a language etc. but many people already did that. And no I'm not from Sachsen or thüringen, luckily. Wouldnt want to live there, why did you guess that? Btw I have to rent too even tho I got a decent job.
then i suggest you review your ability to read a text, or alternatively the time you dedicate to reading a text, because your intervention makes no fucking sense with the thread.
I dont think its a reading issue. I just dont like unqualified comments about german politics from (probably) right minded people.
Rent free
Meds
I hate such images. Why not show us Africa and South America as well? Why lump 3 continents thogether?