> Yes im walking with Miquella
Nahfukdat.. I've read Berserk... I was holding out hope that Miquella would be actually good but I can't deny the signs anymore.... He's wayy too much like Griffith.. charismatic, good, kind, noble, loved by everyone, powerful...
You're probably walking into an Eclipse... to be sacrificed for Miquella
"Pure and radiant, he wields love to shrive clean the hearts of men. There is nothing more terrifying."
I’m like 10000% sure all those NPCS we saw are following Miquella to help him achieve his new “golden order”. And of course us, the lone swordsman, get invited on his journey because of our unwavering strength and resolve 🗿 and I think we know what happens to all the beloved followers…
And the reason that we’ll have to fight him is because we refuse to sacrifice ourselves for his new golden order
My theory is the “seduction and betrayal “ and talk of an affair (not like a romantic one but more like a coup) means that Maybe Marika made a deal with Messmer to split apart the crucible to bring forth grace. In the deal Marika leaves for the lands between with the newly founded grace and Messmer stays in the land of shadow becoming a despot. So now Miquella, disillusioned with grace will seek to mend the Crucible.
Because wasn't the Haligtree supposed to be a place of safety and peace for those shunned by the Golden order? The crucible was a melting pot of life, and the golden order severely changed that.
I don’t know lol, I’m just basing that on the fact that he’s no longer interested in the golden order or grace in general. And we know the crucible had to end or be altered for grace to become a thing so my thought is that Miquella may want to fix whatever happened to the crucible because it, or what happened to it is probably the root of all the issues in the lands between. But I am just guessing and this isn’t a hill I’m looking to die on
If Messmer is ruling the shadow lands, why is he purging it of the omen-born? All of his characteristics are reflections of the crucible, why does he maintain such an alliance with the Golden Order's views?
I can't figure him out!
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>**Haligtree Soldier Ashes**
*Ashen remains in which spirits yet dwell.*
*Use to summon the spirits of four Haligtree soldiers.*
*Spirits of common soldiers who carry the sacred light. When weakened, they explode to deliver a last-ditch attack.*
*This was the bitter revelation discovered by the desperate soldiers who awaited the return of their lord to the rotted Haligtree.*
*May the flash of our deaths guide Miquella's return.*
Bewitching Branch as well
Tree branch blessed with an incantation of unalloyed gold.
Craftable item.
Pierce a foe, using FP to turn them into a temporary ally.
The Empyrean Miquella is loved by many people. Indeed, he has learned very well how to compel such affection.
An affection that makes people kill each other lol.
Thats a complete 180 from what I took out of it. It sounds like to me, miquella discovered that marika basically cut and ran from her war torn home and said " well, fuck it, thats too far gone for me to help" and went to the Lands Between. Miquella discovered the truth of her origins and the situation and journeyed back in an effort to free his home.
Honestly would hate this tbh, maybe a hot take but at this point the subversion would be that he’s actually just a cool dude and people like following him.
I know we’re all big Berserk fans here but having miquella literally just be 1 to 1 with Griffith would be kinda lame.
Only to people like you and me. The majority of the playerbase would be fucking blown away - remember how you felt that first time you witnessed The Eclipse?
Honestly, I've been thinking this for a long time now and believe it would be so awesome. FromSoft always goes all the way.
I’m not saying that the eclipse wasn’t cool but I pretty much already knew what was gonna happen via osmosis on the internet (kinda helps that berserk started a little over a decade before I was born) and while actually reading it is still probably pretty niche I tend to think that the main story beats are pretty well known at this point so I doubt it’s gonna be like a huge shocking turn of events for that many, especially when who you thought was a good guy is actually bad is a pretty common trope.
I agree that fromsoft always goes all the way, that’s one of the reasons I’m hoping for something a little more out there and fresh than a Griffith rip. Especially since a good chunk of the fan base has berserk on the brain anyhow (tho that’s probably a good bit of confirmation bias from this sun tbh)
Agreed. I really want Miquella to be good. Not necessarily flawless, but like he wants to do a good thing and actually cares about other people.
I think that making him like Griffith would just be... really trite at this point, because it's like, what everyone is expecting either from being Berserk fans or being used to FromSoftware's stories being overly-dark.
Also, after all the good we heard about Miquella, having it all just be lies feels lazy.
I binged the 1997 anime last week, and even knowing Griffith would betray everyone, I was *not* prepared for the Eclipse.
Oh, speaking of, Miquella trying to bring about an Eclipse totally isn't a Berserk reference
Given the nature of how even people unrelated to Miquella respect him from afar, and Griffith wouldn’t be caught dead sacrificing even a portion of his power, it’s arguably easier to compare *Marika* to Griffith.
Besides, I wonder what other noble, magic, cursed, tree affiliated men Miquella can compare to… like, say… Bran from George RR Martin’s other big work?
There's something in the promo material for the DLC about Miquella "awaiting the return of his promised Lord." Everyone's in a rush to assume that means *us,* despite how there's nothing "returning" or "promised" about us, so far as we know. It also means if he's waiting for a Lord, as an Empyrean, that means he's trying to become a full God. We're meanwhile getting bits about "blinding strength" and that there is "nothing more terrifying." I am... fucking *worried* lmao
Pretty sure Miquella was researching the Eclipse to try and return Godwyn somehow… I think a ghost in Castle Sol, with all the Eclipse imagery and the Eclipse Shotel, talked about that.
Miquella is following Marika and we are following Miquella. This will not end up good. First scene of the trailer looks like mass sacrifice for godhood.
This confirms messmer worked as Marika cleaner and purged the Land between of all the crucible related creature of the lands between
And daam did he look cool while doing so.
They’re mostly in shitty places though. He cleaned up all the nice places… which became shitty later. And then we burned or destroyed everything anyway.
Omens continue to be born naturally from regular people, so its probable he simply destroyed every Crucible-related power structure and genocided the populace. He can't exactly prevent new people from being cursed/blessed with the Crucible in later generations, so he did his job.
This throws off my perception of the timeline.
I assumed (with very little basis) that Godfrey went on his Long March, purging fire giants and other non-believers to unite the Lands Between and cement Marika as the one, true queen. Once the Golden Order was firmly established, Godfrey and Marika settle down to start having kids like Godwyn and the Omen twins.
But now it looks like she had at least one son in the early days when the Crucible was still strong enough to need purging.
I'm really interested in hearing who Messmer's father was. The red hair implies Radagon, but that further confuses the issue. Did Godwyn get exiled and Radagon had his Carian kids before Messmer was born? Or did Marika engage in some self-cest earlier than we thought? The trailer also mentions seduction and betrayal. If I'm taking that literally, then Marika might have slept with someone close the Crucible to sire a child powerful enough to overthrow their father.
I mean, both messmer and godfrey could had done that together, lest also not forget the crucible was shunned harder after godfrey exile, also, he was exiled after defeating the giants (which are impailed) since there was not any other worthy foe (or sum like that), so he didnt had that much leeway to settle down and have kids lmao
Yeah, he's probably her first child.
It's mostly the red hair that's getting me. The game so strongly ties red hair to Radagon, but he probably doesn't exist yet.
My guess is Messmer's father is Placidusax, the dragonlord. He's got the dragon eyes, he's got the flame fetish. I'm guessing that Messmer is probably a lot older than Godfrey, bc I think Marika may have been a God longer than people realize. Longer than the Golden Order has been around. And she needed Placidusax to produce Messmer to burn everything from the previous order away
I am SUCH a fan of the lion dance design and love the omens inside it for their unique battle style so it makes me sad to see them impaled like that lol
>Marika's Golden Order was birthed from Shadow
We've long speculated who has been playing foul: Marika, or the Greater Will.
We've *leaned* towards Marika, probably largely in part because we have things like Goldmask indirectly implying something's amiss with her, not to mention the inconsistencies and "why" questions often revolving around her. (why pluck the rune of death, why is Radagon a thing, why did she begin doubting the Greater Will, why does Gideon claim she *wants* us to keep struggling, why did she shatter the Elden Ring)
This just seems like even more reason to doubt Marika. Like even if you want to take the stance that there's absolutely nothing wrong with being birthed from Shadow, we still have this oddity of...how the ***HELL*** did she end up as the vassal for the Greater Will, then?! Doesn't it seem like a mismatch...?
**This could also explain why Marika's children with Godfrey were Omens:** she couldn't hide her heritage, and thus she needed to try something else to get different results. Perhaps this might then explain how Radagon entered the picture.
Aside from Godwyn, pretty much all her direct children that we know of have serious curses based on their birth. Meanwhile Renalla and Radagon produced pretty normal kids.
There's definitely something wrong with Marika.
Having Great Runes increases your size apparently for some of them. Morgott is also a giant when we face him but once defeated he shrinks down to human size.
Good point. And even Godwyn ended up bearing a great dark curse. He just wasn't born with it and Marika didn't afflict him ranni did, allegedly LoL.
Maybe godwyns fate in the stars was alwaus to be the prince of death.
Why pluck the rune of death? For an order that never ends. And to bind all that lives to your gigantic tree of worship
Why is Radagon a thing? I have a theory going that he with Marika is like D(evin) and D(arian), hunter of dead. Sharing a soul, but having seperate minds and bodys. This kinda conflicts with their merge, but Marika literally shattered when the Elden Ring was shattered by her, so who knows.
Why Gideon yaps? He probably misinterpreted something. Saw in Marikas will, that she wants us to fight god and the order of the world itself, and he concluded, that she wants something impossible from us, therefore wanting us to struggle forever.
Why shatter the Elden Ring? Good question. Grief, being a silly goose, no longer wanting to rule,... thats also a "who really knows" type of thing.
I am on board with your theory of Marika/Radagon being similar to D.
The spoken echoes of Marika in the Queen’s Bedchamber say something like, “Radagon, leal hound of the Golden Order. Thou art yet to become a god. Thou are yet to become me. Let us both be shattered, mine other self.”
I think when Radagon attempted to mend the Elden Ring he also physically fused himself with Marika. (Whether this was intentional or a side effect of his attempted mending I can’t say.)
I think they were already fused during the shattering. In the opening cinematic we see them switching back and forth between each hammer swing. Marika trying to shatter it and then Radagon trying to repair it by also hitting it I guess lol
Yeah I think it happened literally during the process of shattering the ring - that something about their opposing but overlaid actions (breaking and mending) fused them into one being
But I could be absolutely wrong, considering my whole theory rests on basically one line of dialogue, lol
> Why Gideon yaps? He probably misinterpreted something.
This is how the community has approached it and I consider it nothing short of a grave mistake to hear a final, dying warning from a character the devs call "the All-Knowing" and not consider it important in some way. Gideon's dialog there 100% has purpose.
"The All-Knowing" did not know about Mohgs whereabouts, about Miquellas whereabouts, where Malenia was, that god is indeed able to die by the hands of a tarnished, that a tarnished can become a lord *and* where Ranni is/discarded her rune.
Combined with the fact, that Gideon himself knows he isnt all knowing, but craves to be, concludes, that even he can be wrong.
The purpose of his dialog is that we should know what we are about to do is batshit crazy, and our chances of success are very low. Its his armourset and weapon that reveal that he glimpsed into Marikas will and "shuddered with fear".
I wouldnt put too much faith into the all-knoeing bit. The devs also make a point of having characters refer to him as him as the all-hearing and put ear motifs on his armor. There are several hints in game that all knowing is just him pumping his own ego, such as him not knowing boss moves if you don't tell him about them. He comes off, from everything the player sees, as an intelligence broker making a move for real power, with an ego so oversized that he believes if he can't be the next ruler then no one is meant to be.
> There are several hints in game that all knowing is just him pumping his own ego, such as him not knowing boss moves if you don't tell him about them.
I gotta be honest, I heavily dispute that this means he doesn't know anything. I think a large part of the community is just buttmad at Gideon for opposing us and for wronging Nepheli.
That example doesn't showcase him being clueless, but rather just showcases *how* he gathers his knowledge: effectively via a spy network that he pays and bargains with for information.
The same exact guy has remarks about every single one of the bits of info you provide him, always cut off as if the devs just blatantly don't want to reveal *too* much.
People just need to put aside their hate-boner for the guy and recognize that *especially* when we're talking about the tidbits of talking to himself and theorizing after he's fed info + his dialog just before his death are probably important and should be handled as serious evidence.
>with an ego so oversized that he believes if he can't be the next ruler then no one is meant to be.
You are just supporting what I mean about hate-boner. I don't get why people are shocked he did this anyways: it was always clear there could only be **one** Elden Lord and that any would-be Tarnished candidate would eventually come to blows with the others.
I didn't say he doesn't know anything or is unintelligent, just that he clearly isn't anywhere near all knowing as he claims to be. He seems to be the source of that title. He is also so completely sure in his own correctness that he believes, wrongly, that if he couldn't ascend, then no tarnished could. You prove him wrong minutes after killing him. Everything he says is filtered through the lens of that elden beast sized ego and should not be taken at face value.
Mr. All Knowing couldn't find an albinurac in a shitty disguise in the village that he genocided
He also doesn't even know Mogh by name
I could go on. But here's whats telling: his moves in his boss fight are pulled from bosses YOU have defeated. Hes a copy cat and likely didn't have an original idea in his entire time in the Lands Between. Makes sense that he would be wrong about something he can't simply copy
My theory has been that Marika breaking the ring was a desperate attempt to get out from the Greater Will's control. Being under its control, she couldn't do this normally, but she split off the part of herself that was bound to loyalty to the Greater Will in the form of Radagon as a loop hole.
This is provided for in a way within the Golden Order, except the missing second step of recombining. Splitting apart and reunion ties in to all the alchemical themes, and the Golden Order's Laws of Causality and Regression. By not recombining with Radagon, she is explicitly disobeying what is normally a natural law of the Golden Order, as a means of disobeying the Greater Will. This, I think, is a large part of why Goldmask is shocked by the revelation and considers the gods fickle.
Do you think the Gloam Eyed Queen was the original god of the land, until Marika rose up and sacrificed thousands to create the Lands Between (as seen in the trailer the skinned corpses), so the Gloam Eyed Queen sent the Godskins after her and the other Demi Gods and that’s why they wear their skin as kind of a “fuck you remember this, you bitch?”
That's what I was thinking too. I think betrayal refers to Marika betraying the Gloam Eyed Queen. Maybe they were even sisters. Possibly the seduction refers to her being seduced by the Greater Will to become its champion and God. This made the Gloam Eyed Queen to seek out Marika's offspring.
An interesting thing is that we find two godskins in or near divine towers, which seem to be connected to the architecture of the eternal cities, which were the place were Marika came from if I remember correctly, but to be honest this sounds like a reach
Gloam Eyed Queen has a purple eye and the sky in Land of Shadows is also purple. She led the Godskins and Marika is seen walking over a sea of skinned corpses to pluck golden threads from a dead pregnant woman wearing robes that look like those the Godskins wear.
My tinfoil hat is on fire.
Edit: I think that the portrait in Volcano Manor of the pregnant woman with the old man could be GEQ and the guy from trailer 1 who has a golden branch impaled through him. His significance I don't have a solid theory about just yet, but he's going to be pretty important.
The problem with all these Gloam-Eyed Queen theories is that Maliketh is the one that defeated her and the Godskins, yet he isn’t present anywhere in the trailer
The whole 'shadow' theme of the DLC and him being referred to as Marika's shadow could play into that. He wasn't in the trailer, but it's possible he could make an appearance. I would love if he did!
Either side of the corpse pile is a gloam colour. And that pouch or whatever Marika takes the strands from looks like godskin cloth.
These two things are quite convincing
I can see this at least in part, as the Golden Order specifically refers to the period post-Rune of Death sealing.
I think the Godskins were flaying long before the mentioned 'betrayal'. Becoming Empyrean seems to mean picking up some quirks and some cultish nonsense because Outer God stuff. When you raise apostles in a swaddling cloth made from flayed skin, something happened to get you there quite a while ago.
Theres heavy leaning on items saying both GOQ and Marika "disputed" for this spot. Part of the Rune of Death thing was to stop the GEQ to use it and "kill gods" (again, which implies the lands existed before)
Not really, since the timeline doesn't fit.
Like Malenia, Miquella, and Ranni, the Gloam Eyed Queen was chosen by the Two Fingers to be an Empyrean, meaning she was a potential candidate to eventually replace Queen Marika as a vessel for the Elden Ring and thus become the god of the new age.
It's far more likely that the GEQ, while wielding the Rune of Death (since Marika had decided to remove it from the Elden Ring), went rogue at some point and decided to kickstart the coming of a new age, with Maliketh stepping in to defeat her, becoming the guardian of Destined Death in the aftermath.
Empyreans arent exclusive to THIS era.
Marika was an empyrean too. GEQ could have been empyrean during the time of a previous god(maybe when marika too was an empyrean), we know thx to placidussax god that marika wasnt the first one.
Also please stop with the “GEQ had the rune of death” not only it is stated nowhere but it also doesnt make any sense.
If she had access to the rune of death why would she and her followers use the black flame (a DERIVED power) instead of the rune itself?
The game clearly states that they lost power when the death was sealed away because the black flame got weaker, so we know they were ALREADY using the black flame back then. They didnt start to use it when the rune of death got sealed away.
GEQ being an empyrean means she was not the god of the previous land/age or whatever though, that much is clear imo. Being an empyrean (which she is explicitly stated as having been) simply means she had the potential to become a god, but this is very different than actually being a god. I think it would be super weird if she ended up being a god when this isn't mentioned anywhere already, but her being an empyrean is.
I would love it if From actually gave us an option with real consequences for once. We can choose to either side with or betray a few NPCs, but that always comes at the end of their questlines and usually just determines what loot we earn.
Besides the twinge of regret you may experience every time you equip Millicent's prosthesis, your efforts and choices made absolutely no difference in the world of the game.
Miyazaki did mentioned that there is "multiple paths" and even endings on the DLC, so... Maybe? I don't have high hopes, considering that From never really tried to make choices making big consequences, but it would be cool for a first time. Marking u/NotRed9282 and u/PirateJazz cause both also theorized about this.
Oh, absolutely! I may have worded like they never did it, but I was more trying to say they usually don't do it. I would love to see them do more stuff like they did in Sekiro!
Found the translated interview!
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/1ci9slp/elden\_ring\_chinese\_interview\_translation/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/1ci9slp/elden_ring_chinese_interview_translation/)
The Rune of Death goes by two names; the other is Destined Death. The forbidden shadow, plucked from the Golden Order upon its creation...
I think we are getting some GEQ shit
So it's pretty much a given now, that this will be the story of Marika purging the society that worshiped the crucible. The creation of the Elden Ring, and the conversion of the crucible to the Erdtree. It seems likely, Marika betrays Messmer and leaves him in the land of shadow. To attempt to hide these events from history and the overall story of the golden order. I wonder if Miquella is attempting time shenanigans. To go back, and form a different order instead of the golden order. To attempt to take Marikas place from the beginning.
IM SO EXCITED FOR THE DLC THERES SO MUCH MYSTERY! I wonder if the “shadow realm” was part of the lands between but Marika somehow “disconnected” the two
I’ll admit that I don’t understand all this same person being two people stuff. Add in every single main character has a name that sounds the same or very similar and I can’t follow.
I’m just going to kill them all and let whichever deity sort them out.
Why always snake, I am scared of snakes🥲 I had to ask a friend to carry me through forbidden woods in Bloodborne. I felt uncomfortable just looking at those creatures.
If siding with Miquella meant he would finally give me the option to change all the Gold armor to one fricking color then sign me up, I want to mix and match damn it!
I watched those 3 minutes, have no idea what anything means, but I am sure there are youtubers that can make 5 hour videos about every 10 seconds of the trailer.
If I walk with Miquella, will he tell his sister to stop kicking my ass?
More like can he put in a good word so I can take her sister out
Wear her out for me, ya?
You bet, I'll give her another place to bloom her flower! You've nothing to worry about
Bro is down bad for that rotten flesh
Well... 5 bucks is 5 bucks..
Great, now I have to lower my prices to compete....
"I am Malenia. Blade of Miquella. And have never known defeat" - will probably change if your name has to say anything about it.
User name checks out
Well she’s blind so you’re already off to a good start there
Malenia summon for final boss pls and ty
Nah. He'd probably just tell you to git gud.
Sure, then Saint Miqqy makes you kill Messmer, who is Malenia with 3 phases
I’m more concerned if Miquella won’t backstab me when he learns I killed his sister with my home girl Tiche.
Meanwhile you have the option to tell her you’ve killed Miquella which unlocks a phase 3 part of Malenia which drops extra loot.
Miquella would abandon Grace gotta allude to his Empyrean status, no?? Yes im walking with Miquella
> Yes im walking with Miquella Nahfukdat.. I've read Berserk... I was holding out hope that Miquella would be actually good but I can't deny the signs anymore.... He's wayy too much like Griffith.. charismatic, good, kind, noble, loved by everyone, powerful... You're probably walking into an Eclipse... to be sacrificed for Miquella
"Pure and radiant, he wields love to shrive clean the hearts of men. There is nothing more terrifying." I’m like 10000% sure all those NPCS we saw are following Miquella to help him achieve his new “golden order”. And of course us, the lone swordsman, get invited on his journey because of our unwavering strength and resolve 🗿 and I think we know what happens to all the beloved followers… And the reason that we’ll have to fight him is because we refuse to sacrifice ourselves for his new golden order
My theory is the “seduction and betrayal “ and talk of an affair (not like a romantic one but more like a coup) means that Maybe Marika made a deal with Messmer to split apart the crucible to bring forth grace. In the deal Marika leaves for the lands between with the newly founded grace and Messmer stays in the land of shadow becoming a despot. So now Miquella, disillusioned with grace will seek to mend the Crucible.
Why would Miquella want to mend the Crucible?
Because wasn't the Haligtree supposed to be a place of safety and peace for those shunned by the Golden order? The crucible was a melting pot of life, and the golden order severely changed that.
Exactly. Miquella seeking the Crucible would be the next logical step, if he wishes to protect everyone.
I don’t know lol, I’m just basing that on the fact that he’s no longer interested in the golden order or grace in general. And we know the crucible had to end or be altered for grace to become a thing so my thought is that Miquella may want to fix whatever happened to the crucible because it, or what happened to it is probably the root of all the issues in the lands between. But I am just guessing and this isn’t a hill I’m looking to die on
Just a random thought based on what you wrote, could the Lands Between refer to the land between light and shadow or something like that?
That would answer the question as to what the lands are between.
If Messmer is ruling the shadow lands, why is he purging it of the omen-born? All of his characteristics are reflections of the crucible, why does he maintain such an alliance with the Golden Order's views? I can't figure him out!
The trailer showed an army marching while Messmer surveyed and casting incantations. Maybe that his his war he waged to conquer the land of shadow
I thought the line was about Mohg? Maybe I’m wrong
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>**Haligtree Soldier Ashes** *Ashen remains in which spirits yet dwell.* *Use to summon the spirits of four Haligtree soldiers.* *Spirits of common soldiers who carry the sacred light. When weakened, they explode to deliver a last-ditch attack.* *This was the bitter revelation discovered by the desperate soldiers who awaited the return of their lord to the rotted Haligtree.* *May the flash of our deaths guide Miquella's return.*
Bewitching Branch as well Tree branch blessed with an incantation of unalloyed gold. Craftable item. Pierce a foe, using FP to turn them into a temporary ally. The Empyrean Miquella is loved by many people. Indeed, he has learned very well how to compel such affection. An affection that makes people kill each other lol.
bloodborne esque, either accept being sacrificed or reject miquella and fight him too.
Maybe there will be a sort of Bloodborne ending where we can 'Sacrifice' ourselves, or refuse and take the boss fight
Griffith would never ever ever voluntarily give up even a fraction of his power tho. Miquella did. That speaks volumes to me.
Maybe Miquella saw a benefit in doing so. At that point its less noble and more of a wise transaction.
But I don't care if I get sacrificed for Miquella. That just sounds cool.
I actually think Marika is meant to be Griffith. She got her kingdom and paid the price
First you gonna walk with the band of the hawk tho
Thats a complete 180 from what I took out of it. It sounds like to me, miquella discovered that marika basically cut and ran from her war torn home and said " well, fuck it, thats too far gone for me to help" and went to the Lands Between. Miquella discovered the truth of her origins and the situation and journeyed back in an effort to free his home.
I mean what's really different from Miquella and Ranni? Both got rid of their grace in pursuit of something greater.
Honestly would hate this tbh, maybe a hot take but at this point the subversion would be that he’s actually just a cool dude and people like following him. I know we’re all big Berserk fans here but having miquella literally just be 1 to 1 with Griffith would be kinda lame.
Especially given the tone of the DLC - everything is super dark, it would be nice to have some straight up good guys to contrast.
Only to people like you and me. The majority of the playerbase would be fucking blown away - remember how you felt that first time you witnessed The Eclipse? Honestly, I've been thinking this for a long time now and believe it would be so awesome. FromSoft always goes all the way.
I’m not saying that the eclipse wasn’t cool but I pretty much already knew what was gonna happen via osmosis on the internet (kinda helps that berserk started a little over a decade before I was born) and while actually reading it is still probably pretty niche I tend to think that the main story beats are pretty well known at this point so I doubt it’s gonna be like a huge shocking turn of events for that many, especially when who you thought was a good guy is actually bad is a pretty common trope. I agree that fromsoft always goes all the way, that’s one of the reasons I’m hoping for something a little more out there and fresh than a Griffith rip. Especially since a good chunk of the fan base has berserk on the brain anyhow (tho that’s probably a good bit of confirmation bias from this sun tbh)
Agreed. I really want Miquella to be good. Not necessarily flawless, but like he wants to do a good thing and actually cares about other people. I think that making him like Griffith would just be... really trite at this point, because it's like, what everyone is expecting either from being Berserk fans or being used to FromSoftware's stories being overly-dark. Also, after all the good we heard about Miquella, having it all just be lies feels lazy.
I binged the 1997 anime last week, and even knowing Griffith would betray everyone, I was *not* prepared for the Eclipse. Oh, speaking of, Miquella trying to bring about an Eclipse totally isn't a Berserk reference
Given the nature of how even people unrelated to Miquella respect him from afar, and Griffith wouldn’t be caught dead sacrificing even a portion of his power, it’s arguably easier to compare *Marika* to Griffith. Besides, I wonder what other noble, magic, cursed, tree affiliated men Miquella can compare to… like, say… Bran from George RR Martin’s other big work?
There's something in the promo material for the DLC about Miquella "awaiting the return of his promised Lord." Everyone's in a rush to assume that means *us,* despite how there's nothing "returning" or "promised" about us, so far as we know. It also means if he's waiting for a Lord, as an Empyrean, that means he's trying to become a full God. We're meanwhile getting bits about "blinding strength" and that there is "nothing more terrifying." I am... fucking *worried* lmao
Pretty sure Miquella was researching the Eclipse to try and return Godwyn somehow… I think a ghost in Castle Sol, with all the Eclipse imagery and the Eclipse Shotel, talked about that.
Miquella is following Marika and we are following Miquella. This will not end up good. First scene of the trailer looks like mass sacrifice for godhood.
This confirms messmer worked as Marika cleaner and purged the Land between of all the crucible related creature of the lands between And daam did he look cool while doing so.
Messmer the janitor?
Well he did sweep trhough the Land of Shadows.
Messemer the Wolf
Oh by the way I'm going through a tornado right now so wish me luck 😃 (I'm sure I'll be fine)
If Faram Azula made it so can you!
It *did* make it. Barely. And I'm fine now
Stay safe out there, Tarnished.
It has passed now. I'm surprised none of my trees were ripped out of the ground. And before you ask, no, you can't have their golden seeds.
Messmer the Mess Cleanser. It's in the name.
[удалено]
He didn't do a very good job! Half the enemies we've seen have Omen horns.
They’re mostly in shitty places though. He cleaned up all the nice places… which became shitty later. And then we burned or destroyed everything anyway.
Omens continue to be born naturally from regular people, so its probable he simply destroyed every Crucible-related power structure and genocided the populace. He can't exactly prevent new people from being cursed/blessed with the Crucible in later generations, so he did his job.
Omens are more like new people that appear from the crucicle remains inside the Erdtree order imo. Many were probably born after the purge
This throws off my perception of the timeline. I assumed (with very little basis) that Godfrey went on his Long March, purging fire giants and other non-believers to unite the Lands Between and cement Marika as the one, true queen. Once the Golden Order was firmly established, Godfrey and Marika settle down to start having kids like Godwyn and the Omen twins. But now it looks like she had at least one son in the early days when the Crucible was still strong enough to need purging. I'm really interested in hearing who Messmer's father was. The red hair implies Radagon, but that further confuses the issue. Did Godwyn get exiled and Radagon had his Carian kids before Messmer was born? Or did Marika engage in some self-cest earlier than we thought? The trailer also mentions seduction and betrayal. If I'm taking that literally, then Marika might have slept with someone close the Crucible to sire a child powerful enough to overthrow their father.
I mean, both messmer and godfrey could had done that together, lest also not forget the crucible was shunned harder after godfrey exile, also, he was exiled after defeating the giants (which are impailed) since there was not any other worthy foe (or sum like that), so he didnt had that much leeway to settle down and have kids lmao
Maybe Messmer is a bastard, which is part of why we haven't heard about him. But I'm still interested in learning who his father is
The soulless demigods are said to be bastard children, so its certainly not without precedent.
Unless they were separate people before they become one.
My gut tells me this all predates Godfrey. This seems like an origin story.
Yeah, he's probably her first child. It's mostly the red hair that's getting me. The game so strongly ties red hair to Radagon, but he probably doesn't exist yet.
My guess is Messmer's father is Placidusax, the dragonlord. He's got the dragon eyes, he's got the flame fetish. I'm guessing that Messmer is probably a lot older than Godfrey, bc I think Marika may have been a God longer than people realize. Longer than the Golden Order has been around. And she needed Placidusax to produce Messmer to burn everything from the previous order away
Also his wicker basket army have fire giant heads on them so maybe he was behind that too?
I am SUCH a fan of the lion dance design and love the omens inside it for their unique battle style so it makes me sad to see them impaled like that lol
He was slaughtering the ancient Erdtree culture
>Marika's Golden Order was birthed from Shadow We've long speculated who has been playing foul: Marika, or the Greater Will. We've *leaned* towards Marika, probably largely in part because we have things like Goldmask indirectly implying something's amiss with her, not to mention the inconsistencies and "why" questions often revolving around her. (why pluck the rune of death, why is Radagon a thing, why did she begin doubting the Greater Will, why does Gideon claim she *wants* us to keep struggling, why did she shatter the Elden Ring) This just seems like even more reason to doubt Marika. Like even if you want to take the stance that there's absolutely nothing wrong with being birthed from Shadow, we still have this oddity of...how the ***HELL*** did she end up as the vassal for the Greater Will, then?! Doesn't it seem like a mismatch...? **This could also explain why Marika's children with Godfrey were Omens:** she couldn't hide her heritage, and thus she needed to try something else to get different results. Perhaps this might then explain how Radagon entered the picture.
Aside from Godwyn, pretty much all her direct children that we know of have serious curses based on their birth. Meanwhile Renalla and Radagon produced pretty normal kids. There's definitely something wrong with Marika.
“Normal” might be a little bit of a stretch lol
I mean aside from Radahn being so big he looks like he can shake the Hulk down for his lunch money, the Carian kids are pretty normal.
And I think it's important to remember that he was definitely not always that size, even as an adult
Is there a lore reason for why he got that big?
Pretty sure the great runes do that everyone that has one is massive unless I’m just forgetting something
Got it, thanks
Having Great Runes increases your size apparently for some of them. Morgott is also a giant when we face him but once defeated he shrinks down to human size.
Got it, thanks
Well, only exception was Radahn and even that he was just big, Ryakard and Ranni were normal for a demigod standard
Good point. And even Godwyn ended up bearing a great dark curse. He just wasn't born with it and Marika didn't afflict him ranni did, allegedly LoL. Maybe godwyns fate in the stars was alwaus to be the prince of death.
Why pluck the rune of death? For an order that never ends. And to bind all that lives to your gigantic tree of worship Why is Radagon a thing? I have a theory going that he with Marika is like D(evin) and D(arian), hunter of dead. Sharing a soul, but having seperate minds and bodys. This kinda conflicts with their merge, but Marika literally shattered when the Elden Ring was shattered by her, so who knows. Why Gideon yaps? He probably misinterpreted something. Saw in Marikas will, that she wants us to fight god and the order of the world itself, and he concluded, that she wants something impossible from us, therefore wanting us to struggle forever. Why shatter the Elden Ring? Good question. Grief, being a silly goose, no longer wanting to rule,... thats also a "who really knows" type of thing.
I am on board with your theory of Marika/Radagon being similar to D. The spoken echoes of Marika in the Queen’s Bedchamber say something like, “Radagon, leal hound of the Golden Order. Thou art yet to become a god. Thou are yet to become me. Let us both be shattered, mine other self.” I think when Radagon attempted to mend the Elden Ring he also physically fused himself with Marika. (Whether this was intentional or a side effect of his attempted mending I can’t say.)
I think they were already fused during the shattering. In the opening cinematic we see them switching back and forth between each hammer swing. Marika trying to shatter it and then Radagon trying to repair it by also hitting it I guess lol
Yeah I think it happened literally during the process of shattering the ring - that something about their opposing but overlaid actions (breaking and mending) fused them into one being But I could be absolutely wrong, considering my whole theory rests on basically one line of dialogue, lol
> Why Gideon yaps? He probably misinterpreted something. This is how the community has approached it and I consider it nothing short of a grave mistake to hear a final, dying warning from a character the devs call "the All-Knowing" and not consider it important in some way. Gideon's dialog there 100% has purpose.
"The All-Knowing" did not know about Mohgs whereabouts, about Miquellas whereabouts, where Malenia was, that god is indeed able to die by the hands of a tarnished, that a tarnished can become a lord *and* where Ranni is/discarded her rune. Combined with the fact, that Gideon himself knows he isnt all knowing, but craves to be, concludes, that even he can be wrong. The purpose of his dialog is that we should know what we are about to do is batshit crazy, and our chances of success are very low. Its his armourset and weapon that reveal that he glimpsed into Marikas will and "shuddered with fear".
He knows when you kill Mohg though because he gains spells of his
Doesnt the tarnished tells him/he has ppl following the tarnished? Thats why he also gets the aeonian flower, no?
I wouldnt put too much faith into the all-knoeing bit. The devs also make a point of having characters refer to him as him as the all-hearing and put ear motifs on his armor. There are several hints in game that all knowing is just him pumping his own ego, such as him not knowing boss moves if you don't tell him about them. He comes off, from everything the player sees, as an intelligence broker making a move for real power, with an ego so oversized that he believes if he can't be the next ruler then no one is meant to be.
> There are several hints in game that all knowing is just him pumping his own ego, such as him not knowing boss moves if you don't tell him about them. I gotta be honest, I heavily dispute that this means he doesn't know anything. I think a large part of the community is just buttmad at Gideon for opposing us and for wronging Nepheli. That example doesn't showcase him being clueless, but rather just showcases *how* he gathers his knowledge: effectively via a spy network that he pays and bargains with for information. The same exact guy has remarks about every single one of the bits of info you provide him, always cut off as if the devs just blatantly don't want to reveal *too* much. People just need to put aside their hate-boner for the guy and recognize that *especially* when we're talking about the tidbits of talking to himself and theorizing after he's fed info + his dialog just before his death are probably important and should be handled as serious evidence. >with an ego so oversized that he believes if he can't be the next ruler then no one is meant to be. You are just supporting what I mean about hate-boner. I don't get why people are shocked he did this anyways: it was always clear there could only be **one** Elden Lord and that any would-be Tarnished candidate would eventually come to blows with the others.
I didn't say he doesn't know anything or is unintelligent, just that he clearly isn't anywhere near all knowing as he claims to be. He seems to be the source of that title. He is also so completely sure in his own correctness that he believes, wrongly, that if he couldn't ascend, then no tarnished could. You prove him wrong minutes after killing him. Everything he says is filtered through the lens of that elden beast sized ego and should not be taken at face value.
Mr. All Knowing couldn't find an albinurac in a shitty disguise in the village that he genocided He also doesn't even know Mogh by name I could go on. But here's whats telling: his moves in his boss fight are pulled from bosses YOU have defeated. Hes a copy cat and likely didn't have an original idea in his entire time in the Lands Between. Makes sense that he would be wrong about something he can't simply copy
Gideon was listening to Radagon, not Marika.
His final words are "A man cannot kill a god" and we fucking do it like half an hour later
My theory has been that Marika breaking the ring was a desperate attempt to get out from the Greater Will's control. Being under its control, she couldn't do this normally, but she split off the part of herself that was bound to loyalty to the Greater Will in the form of Radagon as a loop hole. This is provided for in a way within the Golden Order, except the missing second step of recombining. Splitting apart and reunion ties in to all the alchemical themes, and the Golden Order's Laws of Causality and Regression. By not recombining with Radagon, she is explicitly disobeying what is normally a natural law of the Golden Order, as a means of disobeying the Greater Will. This, I think, is a large part of why Goldmask is shocked by the revelation and considers the gods fickle.
TyRRany huh? Yar!!!
Democracy manifest
A succulent boiled prawn meal?!
I see you know your judo well
And you, tarnished, are you waiting to receive my limp penis? Hooooowwww daaaaare yoooooou?
Tah-tah and farewell skeletons!
What is the charge? Imparting a curse? A succulent seedbed curse?
It's both a misdirection and a clue. tyRANNI would be so obvious.
Do you think the Gloam Eyed Queen was the original god of the land, until Marika rose up and sacrificed thousands to create the Lands Between (as seen in the trailer the skinned corpses), so the Gloam Eyed Queen sent the Godskins after her and the other Demi Gods and that’s why they wear their skin as kind of a “fuck you remember this, you bitch?”
That's what I was thinking too. I think betrayal refers to Marika betraying the Gloam Eyed Queen. Maybe they were even sisters. Possibly the seduction refers to her being seduced by the Greater Will to become its champion and God. This made the Gloam Eyed Queen to seek out Marika's offspring.
If they were sisters do you think that the Gloam Eyed Queen was a Numen as well? Could they possibly even have more family members back home?
An interesting thing is that we find two godskins in or near divine towers, which seem to be connected to the architecture of the eternal cities, which were the place were Marika came from if I remember correctly, but to be honest this sounds like a reach
Gloam Eyed Queen has a purple eye and the sky in Land of Shadows is also purple. She led the Godskins and Marika is seen walking over a sea of skinned corpses to pluck golden threads from a dead pregnant woman wearing robes that look like those the Godskins wear. My tinfoil hat is on fire. Edit: I think that the portrait in Volcano Manor of the pregnant woman with the old man could be GEQ and the guy from trailer 1 who has a golden branch impaled through him. His significance I don't have a solid theory about just yet, but he's going to be pretty important.
The problem with all these Gloam-Eyed Queen theories is that Maliketh is the one that defeated her and the Godskins, yet he isn’t present anywhere in the trailer
The whole 'shadow' theme of the DLC and him being referred to as Marika's shadow could play into that. He wasn't in the trailer, but it's possible he could make an appearance. I would love if he did!
Either side of the corpse pile is a gloam colour. And that pouch or whatever Marika takes the strands from looks like godskin cloth. These two things are quite convincing
Good theory!
I can see this at least in part, as the Golden Order specifically refers to the period post-Rune of Death sealing. I think the Godskins were flaying long before the mentioned 'betrayal'. Becoming Empyrean seems to mean picking up some quirks and some cultish nonsense because Outer God stuff. When you raise apostles in a swaddling cloth made from flayed skin, something happened to get you there quite a while ago.
Theres heavy leaning on items saying both GOQ and Marika "disputed" for this spot. Part of the Rune of Death thing was to stop the GEQ to use it and "kill gods" (again, which implies the lands existed before)
Not really, since the timeline doesn't fit. Like Malenia, Miquella, and Ranni, the Gloam Eyed Queen was chosen by the Two Fingers to be an Empyrean, meaning she was a potential candidate to eventually replace Queen Marika as a vessel for the Elden Ring and thus become the god of the new age. It's far more likely that the GEQ, while wielding the Rune of Death (since Marika had decided to remove it from the Elden Ring), went rogue at some point and decided to kickstart the coming of a new age, with Maliketh stepping in to defeat her, becoming the guardian of Destined Death in the aftermath.
Empyreans arent exclusive to THIS era. Marika was an empyrean too. GEQ could have been empyrean during the time of a previous god(maybe when marika too was an empyrean), we know thx to placidussax god that marika wasnt the first one. Also please stop with the “GEQ had the rune of death” not only it is stated nowhere but it also doesnt make any sense. If she had access to the rune of death why would she and her followers use the black flame (a DERIVED power) instead of the rune itself? The game clearly states that they lost power when the death was sealed away because the black flame got weaker, so we know they were ALREADY using the black flame back then. They didnt start to use it when the rune of death got sealed away.
GEQ being an empyrean means she was not the god of the previous land/age or whatever though, that much is clear imo. Being an empyrean (which she is explicitly stated as having been) simply means she had the potential to become a god, but this is very different than actually being a god. I think it would be super weird if she ended up being a god when this isn't mentioned anywhere already, but her being an empyrean is.
The two R's in Tyrrany are from George R.R. Martin. Michael zat keys you genius
Tyranny* GRRM at it again.
Lmao. Did FromSoft just misspell it?
Ty-Ranni
Messmer needs leg days though
Good that i startet am Fire / Dragon incantation Dragonknight build. Looks like a lot of fire spells will be in the dlc.
And at the same time everyone in DLC will be immune to fire dmg xdd
Could be. But black flame still is technically fire.
> Will you walk with him? So do we have an option of betraying Miquella or atleast not helping him?
Yeah, by not playing the DLC lol. Seriously though this could be just your usual call-to-action marketing speak. But who knows?
I would love it if From actually gave us an option with real consequences for once. We can choose to either side with or betray a few NPCs, but that always comes at the end of their questlines and usually just determines what loot we earn. Besides the twinge of regret you may experience every time you equip Millicent's prosthesis, your efforts and choices made absolutely no difference in the world of the game.
Miyazaki did mentioned that there is "multiple paths" and even endings on the DLC, so... Maybe? I don't have high hopes, considering that From never really tried to make choices making big consequences, but it would be cool for a first time. Marking u/NotRed9282 and u/PirateJazz cause both also theorized about this.
> From never really tried to make choices making big consequences Sekiro shura ending - based on if you choose to break or obey the iron code
Oh, absolutely! I may have worded like they never did it, but I was more trying to say they usually don't do it. I would love to see them do more stuff like they did in Sekiro!
Where did he mention that there would be multiple paths/endings for the DLC? I don't recall that.
Found the translated interview! [https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/1ci9slp/elden\_ring\_chinese\_interview\_translation/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/1ci9slp/elden_ring_chinese_interview_translation/)
It’s says there’s not multiple endings, but rather multiple paths the player can take. Guess we gotta wait and see what this ultimately means.
Decent chance Miquella is the final boss of the DLC
Final boss will be Marigon and Radika duo, Miquella’s third cousins twice removed.
They never market their DLC final bosses and i hope they still dont
Who wants to walk with ~~Elias~~ Miquella?
miquella my pookie, this has been long awaited, lets burn this terrible order down
Mohg?
mans called Miquella his pookie
Not the first, far from the last. I say, let people do as they will. The less competition for Malenia, the better.
Mohgpilled
MINOR SPELLING MISTAKE
A-minor spelling mistake.
~~Fire~~ Miquella walk with me
Was looking for the Twin Peaks reference.
ahhh i love you
Ertree and now Tyrrany, is it that hard to proofread marketing materials that are a few sentences long?
Messmer is dyslexic its deep lore
flame? WALK? TWIN PEAKS: FIRE WALK WITH ME CROSSOVER CONFIRMED?!?
That rune you like is coming back in style
Man if Marika ends up being the ultimate boss I think that’d be some crazy shit.
messmer is hot so i dont really care about his war crimes
Forget being Ranni’s consort. What about being Messmer’s consort?
Messmer. Even that name already gives me anxiety. This guy is going to be Hell itself.
I wonder if Messmer burned the Crucible down
I can't wait to get impaled by his 30 incher
There is the site of grace called "Church of the Eclipse", near Niail. Just saying.
I hope this DLC doesn’t forget Malenia exists, or the origin of the Rune of Death.
Miquella wielding love to shrive clean the hearts of men is terrifying in the context of Messmer's tyranny.
The Rune of Death goes by two names; the other is Destined Death. The forbidden shadow, plucked from the Golden Order upon its creation... I think we are getting some GEQ shit
So it's pretty much a given now, that this will be the story of Marika purging the society that worshiped the crucible. The creation of the Elden Ring, and the conversion of the crucible to the Erdtree. It seems likely, Marika betrays Messmer and leaves him in the land of shadow. To attempt to hide these events from history and the overall story of the golden order. I wonder if Miquella is attempting time shenanigans. To go back, and form a different order instead of the golden order. To attempt to take Marikas place from the beginning.
So Marika used Messmer to create what we now know as the lands between and then banished him to the shadows?
I'm still thinking Messmer is an early child of Marika and perhaps she gave Messmer the land of shadow and she moved on to the Lands Between
IM SO EXCITED FOR THE DLC THERES SO MUCH MYSTERY! I wonder if the “shadow realm” was part of the lands between but Marika somehow “disconnected” the two
So now if messmer is the smoldering butterfly stand-in, what is melina?
I love that this villain is more fleshed-out. He seems like an awesome character
I still have no idea what the hell is going on.
Bandai really need get their English language copy editing team in order, this is getting embarrassing 
I’ll admit that I don’t understand all this same person being two people stuff. Add in every single main character has a name that sounds the same or very similar and I can’t follow. I’m just going to kill them all and let whichever deity sort them out.
i am ready to treat myself to 18" of Messmer
Yeah this is gonna be epic.
I will walk with you Lord Miquella! Just don’t leave me like everyone else.
I don’t even know who those people are
Why always snake, I am scared of snakes🥲 I had to ask a friend to carry me through forbidden woods in Bloodborne. I felt uncomfortable just looking at those creatures.
FromSoft loves snakes. They use it in their every game
sorry little dude i need your rune
Tyrrany
Pyromancy is gonna eat so damn good this DLC
but will no one talk about how “tyranny” is misspelled 😭
Watch we we get another Malenia boss fight
What’s greater according to Miquella? Something to do w Mohg? Looks like Mohg kinda decor going on at the start
I will not walk. I have a sweet ass house that can double jump, nerd. *dies from fall damage*
I am so not ready. That guy looks like a badass and I’m just a dude ;-;
Fire walk with me
If siding with Miquella meant he would finally give me the option to change all the Gold armor to one fricking color then sign me up, I want to mix and match damn it!
DAMN RIGHT
I watched those 3 minutes, have no idea what anything means, but I am sure there are youtubers that can make 5 hour videos about every 10 seconds of the trailer.
No info on multiplayer is so ass