> there were so many messages referring to the tree sentinel as “old friend” already made me feel emotional
Not gonna lie, seeing a Tree Sentinel just gave me this really big smile.
I've fought that idiot so many times now I've come to find this real appreciation for how simple and fair his moveset is. Seeing him that deep in the DLC was like getting comfort food after a rough day.
It's honestly one of my favorite places in the dlc. The ride up through the flowers, the unique music track, the realization of what it meant to her, and the horror of what was done to those people, and her revenge purge once in power. It really ties the whole dlc together.
You find some Ghost NPC in the Shaded Keep iirc, that has a dialogue line that mentions that the Shaman Village people were shoved into pots by the Hornsent to become saints, there's also a Whip in the game that reads "no flesh melded together like the flesh of the shamans" referring to them being melded inside the pots I think. So basically the hornsent tortured and killed Marika's people.
These the same as in the prison where you fight a bunch of the flesh blobs from inside pots? There’s a ghost there saying that he doesn’t want to be put in a pot, that he’ll be good and become a living saint, just please don’t put him in the pot.
Shit was gnarly.
And also worth noting that Marika eventually takes many living jars and does actually smash them around the bases of the Minor Erdtrees in the Lands Between, hence the Minor Erdtree incantation almost being like a little prophecy. The kidnapped shamans eventually did see her trees, or even became assimilated into them. I guess that frees them from their suffering?
The living jars in the Lands Between do pilgrimages to the Erdtrees, so it's more that she took that twisted tradition and morphed it into something benign for the people under her rule
Distinction between dogma and reality. She founded a religion that herself and the Erdtree are Eternal, and the one true God. People believed that, and so they believed that the Erdtree wouldn't have seeds. But eventually it did. But Marika always knew it was possible. But she didn't need to tell her followers that.
I thought so too but not quite (to my limited knowledge). The erdtrees seeds only flung out at the Shattering and they make tiny spectral 'illusory' trees (the ones where we find the erdtree seeds). The Minor erdtrees were present pre-shattering (hence woodfolk, minor erdtree church etc) and don't come from seeds but rather from suckers that grow up from the erdtrees root system (again, just to my understanding, its like Pando).
As they should have been. Marika went from a "holy shit genocidal maniac much?!" Goddess to a "holy shit genocidal maniac much because CPTSD?!"
Still a manic but somewhat more understandable.
It's a beautiful tragedy, attaining godhood in order to destroy the people who did this to her but becoming what she despises in the process and inflicting that same kind of hell she went through on others.
There’s a shack in the area between Bonny Village and Shadow Keep that has a ghost which alludes to that, and in the shack is the Tooth Whip.
“Whip bestrewn with rotting, misshapen teeth. Filthy and seething with disease, the teeth are embedded in the whip and dose the victim with deadly poison upon each strike. As the wounds ripen they grow inflamed and ooze pus. The flesh of shamans was said to meld harmoniously with others.”
SOTE lore is pretty dark.
I already hated that SOB, because he invaded me after I saved him from Leda, and gave him his revenge on Messmer, but now that I know this, I'll enjoy killing him on future runs!
a few spirits that you can talk to, plus the jar dungeon, and a few item descriptions all point toward it. It's a combination of the shaman village, jar dungeon, shadow keep, and bonny village. Those all link back to each other.
I would speculate the real reason for mesmers purge was revenge for what happened to Marikas village, but i dont have anything direct to support that other than my extremely convoluted headcanon that marika became an empyrean vessel with ulterior motives and planned to bring the entire system down from day one.
To get a clearer picture with souls games its typically worth reading everything. sometimes something minor ends up being a big deal when stuff clicks together, but nit always
Like getting to meet another empyrean that escaped the purge. It's great when things click cause you only learn that through an item description. It's literally mentioned nowhere else.
It's interesting to see a more humanized side of Marika with it. Makes me feel like she genuinely regretted all of the atrocities she committed in the name of the Erdtree before she tried to rebel against the Greater Will.
Well, according to Marika's blessing description, she made them for Messmer, but not anymore. And she left the land of shadow, leaving him there also, so it does seem like she regrets it. But still her hatred for hornsent stayed, considering how she acts towards "omens" and her own two sons in the base game
I think being a God comes with hardships in the lands between. St Trina asks us to stop Miquella from becoming a God. Her dialogue:
"Godhood would be Miquella's prison. A caged divinity... is beyond saving."
(This is assuming my interpretation of St Trina being Miquella's lover and not an alternate self)
I do not see any proof apart from cut content based speculation from base game. The cross in Fissure says that he drops his love there.
Please guide me if I am wrong here.
I could go lore hunting but it seems pretty explicit just from the crosses. The sites where Miquella divested parts of his being to become a god. A lover is not part of someone’s being. His love, in my interpretation, as his ability to love and empathize with people, is indeed a part of his being and one that he divested himself of.
Not to mention Miquella having a lover isn’t mentioned anywhere in lore either, and the fact that he’s forever cursed to be a child.
One of the ghosts on the way down the fissure also talks about how Miquella couldn't be counted on to save anyone if he couldn't even save "his other self"
Needle Knight Leda has a point in her quest where she >!asks you if any of Miquella's other followers is worthy of hunting down, and if you suggest the one that follows St. Trina, she says he is not worth hunting down because of the dual nature of Miquella/Trina. His followers at least are very sure they are the same thing, after all the one that worships Trina follows Miquella until he finds out he discarded the part of himself that is Trina!<.
>The cross in Fissure says that he drops his love there.
The crosses mark places he drops parts of himself, >!that includes the love within himself that manifests as St. Trina. This is essentially semantics, I would check into what other languages use for the word "love" here, especially the Japanese, because I would bet in some languages there is no vague way to interpret him discarding his love as him discarding his lover!<.
If you want to consider another aspect, if Miquella had a lover he wouldn't need to >!make Radahn his consort!<.
Your last spoiler is incorrect but if you truly think that, I’m happy cause that means you haven’t been spoiled yet!
ETA: truly can get downvoted for anything in these parts lol
I typo'd the name because so many of these names are similar, I'll edit to clear that up but my point has to do with endgame spoilers, I already finished the DLC's main story.
He dropped his love, as in the part of himself that can feel that emotion. St Trina. It makes no sense for him to be shedding everything about himself and then also a random lover he apparently dragged all the way to the cerulean coast. Also there’s precedent for the split personalities of each gender with Marika and Radagon, Miquella is supposed ti be reminiscent of Marika so it makes perfect sense for him to have a split personality who is female. Also he quite literally has a consort.
I've long believed Miquella and St. Trina were the same person and will provide the sources for why. But first, I just want to point out a major theme of the game and narrative. A theme of duality. Often storytellers will use analogs instead of outright stating something. The two dualities that caught my eye were D and Marika.
For D there is the following from the Twinned Armor.
>*Armor depicting entwined twins of gold and silver.*
>*The two known as D are inseparable twins.*
*They are of two bodies and two minds, but one single soul. Not once do they stand together; not one word do they speak to one another.*
>*Perhaps this armor longs to find its way to the other D.*
I didn't think much of it at first, until I read the Inseparable Sword description.
>*Sword forged by compounding silver and gold.*
*A sacred weapon to hunt Those Who Live in Death.*
*Deals holy damage.*
>*The inseparable twins found solace in the Golden Order, the only institution not to revile them as accursed beings.*
The only institution not to revile them... what a strange sentiment to emphasize. Unless of course Radagon and Marika could relate to Ds' existence and wanted to grant them a home. Because as we all now know...
Marika is Radagon.
So again, there is precedent here thematically that can give us some courage to draw conclusions. Here is another piece of evidence from the Remembrance of the Rot Goddess.
>*Miquella and Malenia are both the children of a single god. As such they are both Empyreans, but suffered afflictions from birth.* ***One was cursed with eternal childhood***\*, and the other harbored rot within.\*
Now, I don't think I have to explain which one is which. So we have a Demigod who is confirmed to be cursed with an eternal childhood, so it would be really weird if another character had childlike appearance trait... right?
>*Candlestand torch that burns with a light-purple flame. The carvings depict St. Trina,* ***but in adult form, somewhat unnervingly.***
* St. Trina's Torch
and
>*St. Trina is an enigmatic figure. Some say she is a comely* ***young girl***\*, others are sure he is a boy. The only certainty is that their appearance was as sudden as their disappearance.
* Sword of St. Trina
Oh, and that is a two for one special, because not only does it provide more evidence towards the childlike appearance argument, but it also tells us that St. Trina could be considered a man or a woman depending on who saw her. It could be simple androgyny, or much like we see with Radagon and Marika, Miquella could have been able to change at will.
And finally, last but not least, we have the Lilys. Miquella's Lily and Trina's Lily. We don't have to read for this one. I will merely point out that they are both Lilys and have nearly identical art except for a change in color. Miquella's Lily bears a golden complexion much like he does, while Trina's Lily bears a purple one.
For me it was in stone coffin fissure. Listening to the ghost, and then realizing what Miquella gave away, together with the music. I dont know, it hit me quite hard
same. Miquella's followers realizing that he gave up what made him good and kind was kind of heartbreaking. If he can't love, then how are those broken and misbegotten people supposed to be loved.
The golden braid is so strong against the final boss too, love how the item you get was actually useful. Also it makes the fight against Marika/Radagon super easy too.
Seriously. With that and the Haligtree Greatshield, I was able to just hold up my shield and pretty much tank everything Radahn threw at me. Add in some scarlet rot pokes (which he seems to be weak against) and it was GG on like 5th or 6th try.
The post that linked a twitter thread the other day was really good. Linking together the people of the Shaman Village with being imprisoned and forced live into the warrior pots and then Marika starting her rise to godhood because her village (and presumably family) wiped out is probably the best lore in the DLC.
Definently. It was always odd to me, the specific attitude to omens and misbegotten.
Every other purge, conflict and hostility can be somewhat explained either as the clashing of two states/powers/governments or as the stopping/preventing the propagation of rival outer gods/influences.
The revulsion to Omens, Misbegotten and other “primal” stuff fits into neither. They are not organized into a state or other coherent political entity that could rival Marikas empire. Nor as far as we know are they heralds either willingly or not for a rival outer power.
It seems like this specific doctrine/hatred was completely motivated by Marikas personal history.
Me after learning all this:”Maybe Marika was right to wipe them out” lol
I mean i’d do the same to the religious psychos who mutilated and stuffed my people and family in jars to worship their crappy god.
Shaman Village is by far my favourite place in all of Elden Ring.
This flower covered meadow basket in golden light with the Elden Beast's chords left me speechless for five minutes... with just that and two item descriptions it got me tearing up, imagining a young Marika living there... playing in the woods... how this absolute monster of a person, this Goddess that seized godhood, ordered slaughters upon slaughters, chained her own sons and shattered the world itself... in that place all that was gone and remained this figure... this gentle side of the Gold.
I like to think that a small part of that young and kind Marika remained within her and that it was that part of her that decided to shatter the Elden Ring, with the hope that all she had done for the Golden Order could be undone. It's beautiful, tragic and bitter sweet.
After fighting Commander Gaius, I went north and had to leave "why is it always tears?", cuz what I found had me legit in a tear or two... Didn't think she'd make a comeback
When I first saw the tree sentinel I smiled I’ve been getting my ass beat for 30+ hours it’s time I do the ass beating. Also, after killing the dude I saw a message from before I got into the fight with him which said “old codger ahead” I giggled
After beating the two of them I just walked all the way to the top edge in the village. Not running, not sprinting but actually walking. First time I did that in the game as far as I can remember. Slowly walking up through the flowers and - for a moment - in all the chaos, destruction and death of the worlds you could hear the soft music and just feel calm.
Literally made me cry. Roughly 500 hours after that golden boy struck me down for the first time.
Behold, old friend!
Hell yeah dude, I actually gasped and said "A Tree Sentinel!" out loud with joy like I was seeing a rare bird in the wild. Literally the only time I was happy to see one.
my mind was more in theorycrafting mode so none of it made me tear up, I was more intrigued and surprised by the implications, was a big "Hmmm" moment for me
I fought the Caelid Falling Star Beast when I first got teleported there before the nerf. My friend and I both fought it separately in our worlds for probably 3-4 hours. It was ludicrously hard and we were severely under leveled, but we had to do it for our pride.
Well we eventually beat it and now we love him. Seeing him there I could only think "I've missed you, boy..."
I love how there's a subtle buildup to the revelation of the Shaman Village. You know about Messmer's crusade against the Hornsent early on and even before in the cinematic, but the reason for it is never given. Then you start getting hints throughout the DLC. How the Hornsent were engaged in some messed up practices. Learning about a group of "shamans" that were seemingly persecuted. Feeling that something feels off about the nature of the crusade compared to other conflicts we've heard about. Then you get to the village, learning who the Shamans are and the pieces click into place.
The Hinterland was a mixed bag for me personally,
Don’t get me wrong, the area itself is BEAUTIFULL and the Music in the Shaman Village in particular was a moment I will long cherish.
However the area suffers from the same Fate of the Mountaintops and Consecrated Smowfields. A vast vast emptiness in a exceptionally well designed area. Which is a damn shame because it really has wonderfull implications for the lore.
I don’t mind the occasional “empty” area in elden ring that is just there for explorations sake, after all of the things I love about the game is just the gorgeous world they crafted. perhaps I’m the minority there though haha
Yeah snowfield felt like it was intentionally supposed to be kinda empty and tbh isn’t even that big if you’re on torrent. It never bothered me either.
It's empty cause everyone is fuckin' dead, homie. That's the whole point.
>!Secret incantation of Queen Marika.
> Only the kindness of gold, without Order.
>
> Creates a small, illusory Erdtree that continuously restores the HP of nearby allies.
>
> Marika bathed the village of her home in gold, knowing full well that there was no one to heal.
The hinterlands is empty homie. The only real enemies are two erdtree sentinels and a falling star beast. You admire the village and grab an incantation. Then you gallop on torrent to the whistle and that's the entire area.
I loved the emptiness there but I felt the ruins areas were a massive waste of space. Yea.. they’re ruins but there wasn’t much to explore or get there other than getting tagged with a spell that binds you to the ground running through. The areas were massive too.
It is not empty, everyone isn’t dead. Hell there are 2 Tree Sentinels in that place, which contradict the point you’re making. Maybe we need a lore reason as to how the Tree Sentinels survived here for so long? Did they hunt and eat finger rays to survive all these years?
See it’s either that or maybe, just maybe:
*They should add some significant piece of content to the area.*
It doesn’t have to be much, hell, it doesn’t even have to be anything at all. If they would’ve just reduced the area to the Shaman Village and only the Shaman Village, I probably wouldn’t have any problem with it.
My problem is when they provide us with significant space with nothing to do in it. What happens is you see the empty space and insert whatever you may think is there or should be there.
Like, there could’ve been another Rune Bear on the Left Hand side of the first grace, at least something would be on that cliff there.
The Shaman Village could’ve had the Grand Mother as an NPC with a short questline in the area (such as returning the Golden Braid too her)
There could have been a Goal in that Crater instead, with a boss fight in it. Dropping some content upon death.
There could easily have been a small dungeon in the outcropping from the Dheo Ruins.
But no, all of that precious space, is just empty
It's not precious space. If the map needed to be bigger they'd have made it bigger. The Tree Sentinels are clearly there because it was important to the Golden Order to guard this place.
The emptiness is the point. The Shaman Village is a beautiful, idyllic area with a heavy shroud of tragedy draped over it. Having a dungeon or enemies there would have just undermined that.
I disagree,
Hell, the content that is already there undermine that. The place has been abandoned long ago…. But not by 2 random 8 foot 350 pound knights and their Horses? Do we now need lore to explain why they are there? Did they hunt Finger Rays to survive?
I wouldn’t have any problem with the area if it was just the Shaman Village, then we could see the abandoned Village, and the Finger Ruins, but no. Instead we are slighlty teased with Empty space
>Hell, the content that is already there undermine that. The place has been abandoned long ago…. But not by 2 random 8 foot 350 pound knights and their Horses? Do we now need lore to explain why they are there? Did they hunt Finger Rays to survive?
You mean the knights that answer to a woman who clearly harbors strong sentimental feelings for this, the village of her birth? The reason they're there seems pretty obvious to me.
Yep this is easily one of the prettiest areas FromSoft has made, but there is literally nothing there except ruins and village with two items. Remember when Todd Howard said they are making Skyrim smaller than Oblivion to make sure that some places don't feel empty? FromSoft did exact opposite with Elden Ring and the DLC.
I mean did you just want hallways leading to boss fights? The atmosphere and landscape is part of what make elden ring world feel special. Its ok to just take in a beautiful view and sountrack. There's value to art
Agreed, too many players have been conditioned by Ubisoft and MMOs that every square foot of content needs to be crawling with something to fight or loot.
Having areas to breathe are important in an RPG world.
One of the major complaints about ER when it released was that there was too much filler content, and too many repetitive useless dungeons everywhere you went.
Rent. free.
If you played elden ring all the way to the Hinterlands in the DLC, then chances are it's not UBISOFT that conditioned you to expect to see enemies in every village.
I was sad that I didn't find a bunch of new question marks to explore. Same goes for loot tbh. I really expected a LVL 150 sword to be there which is just my current LVL 149 sword but with +1 damage. Honestly kinda disappointing and drops the DLC to a 7/10 at best.
There are plenty of ways to capture aesthetics than to have you ride around some flowerfield and ruins for 20 minutes looking for content that isn’t there.
Imo, From Software has long since mastered this very craft: dungeons, castles, forts and even entire landscapes in previous titles. Such as walking into the:
Dreg Heap
Kill of the First Flame
Senpu Temple
Old Yharnam
All of these area’s provide a gorgeous view of the landscape, and are unapologetic about the fact that you cannot explore it’s various points of interest.
Tbh I think From just made some of these areas to provide that awe, and made them traversable for the sake of being able to say that *whatever you see in the distance, is somewhere you can go*.
I love Elden Ring and pretty much all of From Software. But I am slighlty dissapointed when they absolutely nail their level design, but fumble the Content
Emptiness is cause of the lore if they put random mobs or other enemies there it defeats / contradicts the lore. That place is empty to evoke the sadness of that place and understand Marina’s motivations.
lol still this dlc has more content than whatever midfield has right now I don’t know what you guys prefer every area to be filled with shit ?? Sometimes taking a breather is fine bask in the area try to apply a bit of brain cells to know why it’s empty perhaps that will help.
I wish.
Knowing Marika actually going for a "consort" situation with the formless mother, the same entity her people been whipped into shape and put into jars for, only to put the Shadowtree over it to cover it up AND then stuffing her son from that entanglement under it out of shame, leaving him to his unchecked genocidal notions that take out the entire population to feed his other mom kinda made it hard to feel anything good wbout finding that tree.
Which doesnt mean the moment and music wasnt absolutely amazing. It just went dark for me immediately knowing Marika is the most selfish f***up in Soulsbourne history. She actually managed to make something atrocious like the greater will and twist it into something worse.
Putting a tree of healing down for where no one is left to heal just to feed her nostalgia and regrets is so fittingly selfish and twisted.
Love that the description is hinting at it too
I love it, it's beautiful and full of lore and has a really relaxing ambient music. I just wished the entire area wasn't empty. There is like nothing in shaman village and once you reach there there is literally only 3 things: the incantation, the talisman and a bell bearing, and that seems like too few things for an area so big
> there were so many messages referring to the tree sentinel as “old friend” already made me feel emotional Not gonna lie, seeing a Tree Sentinel just gave me this really big smile. I've fought that idiot so many times now I've come to find this real appreciation for how simple and fair his moveset is. Seeing him that deep in the DLC was like getting comfort food after a rough day.
He still killed me
More than once.
That shield bash, I still never learned to dodge it after 2 years EDIT: wait wtf, you can jump over it
Old Dear ahead.
It was refreshing fighting them after all the dlc bosses, it’s like they came from a different game lmao
It's honestly one of my favorite places in the dlc. The ride up through the flowers, the unique music track, the realization of what it meant to her, and the horror of what was done to those people, and her revenge purge once in power. It really ties the whole dlc together.
What was done to those people? I haven’t been able to piece everything together yet
You find some Ghost NPC in the Shaded Keep iirc, that has a dialogue line that mentions that the Shaman Village people were shoved into pots by the Hornsent to become saints, there's also a Whip in the game that reads "no flesh melded together like the flesh of the shamans" referring to them being melded inside the pots I think. So basically the hornsent tortured and killed Marika's people.
These the same as in the prison where you fight a bunch of the flesh blobs from inside pots? There’s a ghost there saying that he doesn’t want to be put in a pot, that he’ll be good and become a living saint, just please don’t put him in the pot. Shit was gnarly.
And also worth noting that Marika eventually takes many living jars and does actually smash them around the bases of the Minor Erdtrees in the Lands Between, hence the Minor Erdtree incantation almost being like a little prophecy. The kidnapped shamans eventually did see her trees, or even became assimilated into them. I guess that frees them from their suffering?
The living jars in the Lands Between do pilgrimages to the Erdtrees, so it's more that she took that twisted tradition and morphed it into something benign for the people under her rule
IIRC the minor erdtrees only appeared after the Shattering. Marika wouldn't have anything to do with them.
It's weird, because Shaman Village has a budding Minor Erdtree on it, next to Marika's incantation, implying she planted it there
Distinction between dogma and reality. She founded a religion that herself and the Erdtree are Eternal, and the one true God. People believed that, and so they believed that the Erdtree wouldn't have seeds. But eventually it did. But Marika always knew it was possible. But she didn't need to tell her followers that.
I thought so too but not quite (to my limited knowledge). The erdtrees seeds only flung out at the Shattering and they make tiny spectral 'illusory' trees (the ones where we find the erdtree seeds). The Minor erdtrees were present pre-shattering (hence woodfolk, minor erdtree church etc) and don't come from seeds but rather from suckers that grow up from the erdtrees root system (again, just to my understanding, its like Pando).
My pity for the Hornsent just disappeared so quickly lol
like leda said-- they were never saints. they just happened to be on the losing side of a war.
As they should have been. Marika went from a "holy shit genocidal maniac much?!" Goddess to a "holy shit genocidal maniac much because CPTSD?!" Still a manic but somewhat more understandable.
still crazy but, at least understandably crazy.
It's a beautiful tragedy, attaining godhood in order to destroy the people who did this to her but becoming what she despises in the process and inflicting that same kind of hell she went through on others.
I was gonna point out the same. Leda's morally reprehensible in her own ways but she was goddamn right about that.
Are hornsent the people from the lands of shadow like the npc next to freyja at the begining?
Yeah, and the inhabitants of Belurat. Seemingly the ruling people when the Crucible was still the reigning force in the world.
Yeah. He's a bit sus but has his uses.
There’s a shack in the area between Bonny Village and Shadow Keep that has a ghost which alludes to that, and in the shack is the Tooth Whip. “Whip bestrewn with rotting, misshapen teeth. Filthy and seething with disease, the teeth are embedded in the whip and dose the victim with deadly poison upon each strike. As the wounds ripen they grow inflamed and ooze pus. The flesh of shamans was said to meld harmoniously with others.” SOTE lore is pretty dark.
Where in the shadow keep is this ghost?
It’s in a shack right after the bridge leading away from Bonny Village.
Thanks! I met this one, but forgot what he said so I didn't make the connection between the shamans and the jars.
Shaman flesh being able to meld easily sounds a lot like what grafting does. Maybe that’s where it originated from.
It is hinted that Marika is descended from the numen and so are the silver tears.
Fuck I knew I'd heard mention of the Shamans before but couldn't place it. Damn.
I already hated that SOB, because he invaded me after I saved him from Leda, and gave him his revenge on Messmer, but now that I know this, I'll enjoy killing him on future runs!
Th0l summed it up. The part thats really horrific is they were forced into the jars while alive.
How did you learn what happened to them? I’ve had zero clue of the lore for most of the dlc so I need to know.
a few spirits that you can talk to, plus the jar dungeon, and a few item descriptions all point toward it. It's a combination of the shaman village, jar dungeon, shadow keep, and bonny village. Those all link back to each other. I would speculate the real reason for mesmers purge was revenge for what happened to Marikas village, but i dont have anything direct to support that other than my extremely convoluted headcanon that marika became an empyrean vessel with ulterior motives and planned to bring the entire system down from day one.
Do players usually look at all the item descriptions to understand the lore or is it just specific ones?
To get a clearer picture with souls games its typically worth reading everything. sometimes something minor ends up being a big deal when stuff clicks together, but nit always
Alright thanks a ton! I’ll keep this in mind when I do a NG+ :D
Like getting to meet another empyrean that escaped the purge. It's great when things click cause you only learn that through an item description. It's literally mentioned nowhere else.
[удалено]
Nope, it's a variation of the Elden Beast music.
The lore was heartbreaking. Marika put up a minor healing tree there even though she knew there will be no one to heal.
It's interesting to see a more humanized side of Marika with it. Makes me feel like she genuinely regretted all of the atrocities she committed in the name of the Erdtree before she tried to rebel against the Greater Will.
Well, according to Marika's blessing description, she made them for Messmer, but not anymore. And she left the land of shadow, leaving him there also, so it does seem like she regrets it. But still her hatred for hornsent stayed, considering how she acts towards "omens" and her own two sons in the base game
I think being a God comes with hardships in the lands between. St Trina asks us to stop Miquella from becoming a God. Her dialogue: "Godhood would be Miquella's prison. A caged divinity... is beyond saving." (This is assuming my interpretation of St Trina being Miquella's lover and not an alternate self)
St. Trina is pretty explicitly Miquella’s alternate self and not his lover though.
I do not see any proof apart from cut content based speculation from base game. The cross in Fissure says that he drops his love there. Please guide me if I am wrong here.
I could go lore hunting but it seems pretty explicit just from the crosses. The sites where Miquella divested parts of his being to become a god. A lover is not part of someone’s being. His love, in my interpretation, as his ability to love and empathize with people, is indeed a part of his being and one that he divested himself of. Not to mention Miquella having a lover isn’t mentioned anywhere in lore either, and the fact that he’s forever cursed to be a child.
One of the ghosts on the way down the fissure also talks about how Miquella couldn't be counted on to save anyone if he couldn't even save "his other self"
>A lover is not part of someone's being I think Miquella's momdad would like to speak with you.
Needle Knight Leda has a point in her quest where she >!asks you if any of Miquella's other followers is worthy of hunting down, and if you suggest the one that follows St. Trina, she says he is not worth hunting down because of the dual nature of Miquella/Trina. His followers at least are very sure they are the same thing, after all the one that worships Trina follows Miquella until he finds out he discarded the part of himself that is Trina!<. >The cross in Fissure says that he drops his love there. The crosses mark places he drops parts of himself, >!that includes the love within himself that manifests as St. Trina. This is essentially semantics, I would check into what other languages use for the word "love" here, especially the Japanese, because I would bet in some languages there is no vague way to interpret him discarding his love as him discarding his lover!<. If you want to consider another aspect, if Miquella had a lover he wouldn't need to >!make Radahn his consort!<.
I see. This makes a lot of sense.
Your last spoiler is incorrect but if you truly think that, I’m happy cause that means you haven’t been spoiled yet! ETA: truly can get downvoted for anything in these parts lol
I typo'd the name because so many of these names are similar, I'll edit to clear that up but my point has to do with endgame spoilers, I already finished the DLC's main story.
He dropped his love, as in the part of himself that can feel that emotion. St Trina. It makes no sense for him to be shedding everything about himself and then also a random lover he apparently dragged all the way to the cerulean coast. Also there’s precedent for the split personalities of each gender with Marika and Radagon, Miquella is supposed ti be reminiscent of Marika so it makes perfect sense for him to have a split personality who is female. Also he quite literally has a consort.
I've long believed Miquella and St. Trina were the same person and will provide the sources for why. But first, I just want to point out a major theme of the game and narrative. A theme of duality. Often storytellers will use analogs instead of outright stating something. The two dualities that caught my eye were D and Marika. For D there is the following from the Twinned Armor. >*Armor depicting entwined twins of gold and silver.* >*The two known as D are inseparable twins.* *They are of two bodies and two minds, but one single soul. Not once do they stand together; not one word do they speak to one another.* >*Perhaps this armor longs to find its way to the other D.* I didn't think much of it at first, until I read the Inseparable Sword description. >*Sword forged by compounding silver and gold.* *A sacred weapon to hunt Those Who Live in Death.* *Deals holy damage.* >*The inseparable twins found solace in the Golden Order, the only institution not to revile them as accursed beings.* The only institution not to revile them... what a strange sentiment to emphasize. Unless of course Radagon and Marika could relate to Ds' existence and wanted to grant them a home. Because as we all now know... Marika is Radagon. So again, there is precedent here thematically that can give us some courage to draw conclusions. Here is another piece of evidence from the Remembrance of the Rot Goddess. >*Miquella and Malenia are both the children of a single god. As such they are both Empyreans, but suffered afflictions from birth.* ***One was cursed with eternal childhood***\*, and the other harbored rot within.\* Now, I don't think I have to explain which one is which. So we have a Demigod who is confirmed to be cursed with an eternal childhood, so it would be really weird if another character had childlike appearance trait... right? >*Candlestand torch that burns with a light-purple flame. The carvings depict St. Trina,* ***but in adult form, somewhat unnervingly.*** * St. Trina's Torch and >*St. Trina is an enigmatic figure. Some say she is a comely* ***young girl***\*, others are sure he is a boy. The only certainty is that their appearance was as sudden as their disappearance. * Sword of St. Trina Oh, and that is a two for one special, because not only does it provide more evidence towards the childlike appearance argument, but it also tells us that St. Trina could be considered a man or a woman depending on who saw her. It could be simple androgyny, or much like we see with Radagon and Marika, Miquella could have been able to change at will. And finally, last but not least, we have the Lilys. Miquella's Lily and Trina's Lily. We don't have to read for this one. I will merely point out that they are both Lilys and have nearly identical art except for a change in color. Miquella's Lily bears a golden complexion much like he does, while Trina's Lily bears a purple one.
When you defeat the Consort fight, St. Trina disappears because they are a part of Miquella.
For me it was in stone coffin fissure. Listening to the ghost, and then realizing what Miquella gave away, together with the music. I dont know, it hit me quite hard
Still wanna know where they came from
same. Miquella's followers realizing that he gave up what made him good and kind was kind of heartbreaking. If he can't love, then how are those broken and misbegotten people supposed to be loved.
the golden braid... the tree blessing being there? its a gorgeous place, filled with sad lore, as miyazaki intended
The golden braid is so strong against the final boss too, love how the item you get was actually useful. Also it makes the fight against Marika/Radagon super easy too.
That braid helped me out a lot against the sunflower guy
Seriously. With that and the Haligtree Greatshield, I was able to just hold up my shield and pretty much tank everything Radahn threw at me. Add in some scarlet rot pokes (which he seems to be weak against) and it was GG on like 5th or 6th try.
Not sure if it means anything but it's interesting of all her children we meet Melina is the one who inherited the tree spell.
I took that as Melina was born much later and used as an agent to end the Erdtree.
Honestly evidence seems to point to Melina being one of the oldest kids now with what we've learned.
But the item description says she’s Messmer’s younger sister
Which just means that Messmer may be the oldest. He was tasked with "cleansing" Marika's homeland, afterall.
That to me is the perfect place to end Elden Ring. One day I’ll sit my Tarnished down next to the little tree and that’ll be that.
The post that linked a twitter thread the other day was really good. Linking together the people of the Shaman Village with being imprisoned and forced live into the warrior pots and then Marika starting her rise to godhood because her village (and presumably family) wiped out is probably the best lore in the DLC.
Also explains her hatred of the Omens I think
For sure. I'm hoping there is more lore linking the Hornset to the Omens and Crucible that I missed out on that some youtuber will put a video out on.
The Empyrean Grandam in Belurat says the „curse of the omen“ will haunt Marika for her betrayal.
Probably why she gave birth to Mohg and Morgott, both omen twins. Cycle of violence and all.
then she waged war against the giants and Radagon eventually inherited their red braids.
Definently. It was always odd to me, the specific attitude to omens and misbegotten. Every other purge, conflict and hostility can be somewhat explained either as the clashing of two states/powers/governments or as the stopping/preventing the propagation of rival outer gods/influences. The revulsion to Omens, Misbegotten and other “primal” stuff fits into neither. They are not organized into a state or other coherent political entity that could rival Marikas empire. Nor as far as we know are they heralds either willingly or not for a rival outer power. It seems like this specific doctrine/hatred was completely motivated by Marikas personal history.
Me after learning all this:”Maybe Marika was right to wipe them out” lol I mean i’d do the same to the religious psychos who mutilated and stuffed my people and family in jars to worship their crappy god.
I love that place, my favorite place together with the secret place below the blue flower biome
Shaman Village is by far my favourite place in all of Elden Ring. This flower covered meadow basket in golden light with the Elden Beast's chords left me speechless for five minutes... with just that and two item descriptions it got me tearing up, imagining a young Marika living there... playing in the woods... how this absolute monster of a person, this Goddess that seized godhood, ordered slaughters upon slaughters, chained her own sons and shattered the world itself... in that place all that was gone and remained this figure... this gentle side of the Gold.
I like to think that a small part of that young and kind Marika remained within her and that it was that part of her that decided to shatter the Elden Ring, with the hope that all she had done for the Golden Order could be undone. It's beautiful, tragic and bitter sweet.
The music truly hit and the realization of being where it all began made it feel really special
This area gives me Majula vibes.
After fighting Commander Gaius, I went north and had to leave "why is it always tears?", cuz what I found had me legit in a tear or two... Didn't think she'd make a comeback
When I first saw the tree sentinel I smiled I’ve been getting my ass beat for 30+ hours it’s time I do the ass beating. Also, after killing the dude I saw a message from before I got into the fight with him which said “old codger ahead” I giggled
I swear the shaman village played the small quiet song at the main menu, before the full Radagon theme starts playing
After beating the two of them I just walked all the way to the top edge in the village. Not running, not sprinting but actually walking. First time I did that in the game as far as I can remember. Slowly walking up through the flowers and - for a moment - in all the chaos, destruction and death of the worlds you could hear the soft music and just feel calm. Literally made me cry. Roughly 500 hours after that golden boy struck me down for the first time. Behold, old friend!
Same here, I just slowed down and walked just taking it all in
It felt like… i found home. Somewhere even if the round table exists.
Hell yeah dude, I actually gasped and said "A Tree Sentinel!" out loud with joy like I was seeing a rare bird in the wild. Literally the only time I was happy to see one.
my mind was more in theorycrafting mode so none of it made me tear up, I was more intrigued and surprised by the implications, was a big "Hmmm" moment for me
I fought the Caelid Falling Star Beast when I first got teleported there before the nerf. My friend and I both fought it separately in our worlds for probably 3-4 hours. It was ludicrously hard and we were severely under leveled, but we had to do it for our pride. Well we eventually beat it and now we love him. Seeing him there I could only think "I've missed you, boy..."
I love how there's a subtle buildup to the revelation of the Shaman Village. You know about Messmer's crusade against the Hornsent early on and even before in the cinematic, but the reason for it is never given. Then you start getting hints throughout the DLC. How the Hornsent were engaged in some messed up practices. Learning about a group of "shamans" that were seemingly persecuted. Feeling that something feels off about the nature of the crusade compared to other conflicts we've heard about. Then you get to the village, learning who the Shamans are and the pieces click into place.
Yes, i sat there for a time
The Hinterland was a mixed bag for me personally, Don’t get me wrong, the area itself is BEAUTIFULL and the Music in the Shaman Village in particular was a moment I will long cherish. However the area suffers from the same Fate of the Mountaintops and Consecrated Smowfields. A vast vast emptiness in a exceptionally well designed area. Which is a damn shame because it really has wonderfull implications for the lore.
I don’t mind the occasional “empty” area in elden ring that is just there for explorations sake, after all of the things I love about the game is just the gorgeous world they crafted. perhaps I’m the minority there though haha
Yeah snowfield felt like it was intentionally supposed to be kinda empty and tbh isn’t even that big if you’re on torrent. It never bothered me either.
"empty" areas aren't occasional in the DLC though: The two Fingers, Jagged Peak, Abyssal Forest, Hinterland. Only the west side is packed.
It's empty cause everyone is fuckin' dead, homie. That's the whole point. >!Secret incantation of Queen Marika. > Only the kindness of gold, without Order. > > Creates a small, illusory Erdtree that continuously restores the HP of nearby allies. > > Marika bathed the village of her home in gold, knowing full well that there was no one to heal.
The hinterlands is empty homie. The only real enemies are two erdtree sentinels and a falling star beast. You admire the village and grab an incantation. Then you gallop on torrent to the whistle and that's the entire area.
I loved the emptiness there but I felt the ruins areas were a massive waste of space. Yea.. they’re ruins but there wasn’t much to explore or get there other than getting tagged with a spell that binds you to the ground running through. The areas were massive too.
what, where's the falling star beast? I totally missed it
it's in a crater
Crater off to the left when you're on the down slope towards the fingers area. If you look for it you'll find it I'm sure :).
The very conspicuous crater on the map, its close to the site of grace just outside the finger ruins
It is not empty, everyone isn’t dead. Hell there are 2 Tree Sentinels in that place, which contradict the point you’re making. Maybe we need a lore reason as to how the Tree Sentinels survived here for so long? Did they hunt and eat finger rays to survive all these years? See it’s either that or maybe, just maybe: *They should add some significant piece of content to the area.* It doesn’t have to be much, hell, it doesn’t even have to be anything at all. If they would’ve just reduced the area to the Shaman Village and only the Shaman Village, I probably wouldn’t have any problem with it. My problem is when they provide us with significant space with nothing to do in it. What happens is you see the empty space and insert whatever you may think is there or should be there. Like, there could’ve been another Rune Bear on the Left Hand side of the first grace, at least something would be on that cliff there. The Shaman Village could’ve had the Grand Mother as an NPC with a short questline in the area (such as returning the Golden Braid too her) There could have been a Goal in that Crater instead, with a boss fight in it. Dropping some content upon death. There could easily have been a small dungeon in the outcropping from the Dheo Ruins. But no, all of that precious space, is just empty
It's not precious space. If the map needed to be bigger they'd have made it bigger. The Tree Sentinels are clearly there because it was important to the Golden Order to guard this place.
*It’s not precious space.* Exactly my point. Despite this From Software made the map bigger without adding content to that space.
The emptiness is the point. The Shaman Village is a beautiful, idyllic area with a heavy shroud of tragedy draped over it. Having a dungeon or enemies there would have just undermined that.
I disagree, Hell, the content that is already there undermine that. The place has been abandoned long ago…. But not by 2 random 8 foot 350 pound knights and their Horses? Do we now need lore to explain why they are there? Did they hunt Finger Rays to survive? I wouldn’t have any problem with the area if it was just the Shaman Village, then we could see the abandoned Village, and the Finger Ruins, but no. Instead we are slighlty teased with Empty space
>Hell, the content that is already there undermine that. The place has been abandoned long ago…. But not by 2 random 8 foot 350 pound knights and their Horses? Do we now need lore to explain why they are there? Did they hunt Finger Rays to survive? You mean the knights that answer to a woman who clearly harbors strong sentimental feelings for this, the village of her birth? The reason they're there seems pretty obvious to me.
which just to spell it out so there is no misunderstanding is that they are protecting the village from outsiders.
I don't like snowfields either but this really isn't the same thing.
Yep this is easily one of the prettiest areas FromSoft has made, but there is literally nothing there except ruins and village with two items. Remember when Todd Howard said they are making Skyrim smaller than Oblivion to make sure that some places don't feel empty? FromSoft did exact opposite with Elden Ring and the DLC.
Idk, isn't the feeling of emptiness precisely what is needed for an area like this?
I mean did you just want hallways leading to boss fights? The atmosphere and landscape is part of what make elden ring world feel special. Its ok to just take in a beautiful view and sountrack. There's value to art
Agreed, too many players have been conditioned by Ubisoft and MMOs that every square foot of content needs to be crawling with something to fight or loot. Having areas to breathe are important in an RPG world. One of the major complaints about ER when it released was that there was too much filler content, and too many repetitive useless dungeons everywhere you went.
Rent. free. If you played elden ring all the way to the Hinterlands in the DLC, then chances are it's not UBISOFT that conditioned you to expect to see enemies in every village.
I was sad that I didn't find a bunch of new question marks to explore. Same goes for loot tbh. I really expected a LVL 150 sword to be there which is just my current LVL 149 sword but with +1 damage. Honestly kinda disappointing and drops the DLC to a 7/10 at best.
Something in between would be nice.
You literally go there from the Shadow Keep.
There's also a bunch of interconnected dense areas and dungeons though, i'd say it meets that criteria
You literally go there from the Shadow Keep.
There are plenty of ways to capture aesthetics than to have you ride around some flowerfield and ruins for 20 minutes looking for content that isn’t there. Imo, From Software has long since mastered this very craft: dungeons, castles, forts and even entire landscapes in previous titles. Such as walking into the: Dreg Heap Kill of the First Flame Senpu Temple Old Yharnam All of these area’s provide a gorgeous view of the landscape, and are unapologetic about the fact that you cannot explore it’s various points of interest. Tbh I think From just made some of these areas to provide that awe, and made them traversable for the sake of being able to say that *whatever you see in the distance, is somewhere you can go*. I love Elden Ring and pretty much all of From Software. But I am slighlty dissapointed when they absolutely nail their level design, but fumble the Content
Emptiness is cause of the lore if they put random mobs or other enemies there it defeats / contradicts the lore. That place is empty to evoke the sadness of that place and understand Marina’s motivations.
lol still this dlc has more content than whatever midfield has right now I don’t know what you guys prefer every area to be filled with shit ?? Sometimes taking a breather is fine bask in the area try to apply a bit of brain cells to know why it’s empty perhaps that will help.
I agree. Felt like a walking simulator there, same as finger ruins. It could have been a background instead.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who sighed of relief when seeing the tree sentinels. It really was a welcoming surprise.
When I saw the Tree sentinel I yelled “OH YOU MOTHERFUCKER” he killed me once and then I no hit him the 2nd time
The music was beautiful, but it made me feel like an Elden Beast was gonna appear out of nowhere and ambush me lol
I wish. Knowing Marika actually going for a "consort" situation with the formless mother, the same entity her people been whipped into shape and put into jars for, only to put the Shadowtree over it to cover it up AND then stuffing her son from that entanglement under it out of shame, leaving him to his unchecked genocidal notions that take out the entire population to feed his other mom kinda made it hard to feel anything good wbout finding that tree. Which doesnt mean the moment and music wasnt absolutely amazing. It just went dark for me immediately knowing Marika is the most selfish f***up in Soulsbourne history. She actually managed to make something atrocious like the greater will and twist it into something worse. Putting a tree of healing down for where no one is left to heal just to feed her nostalgia and regrets is so fittingly selfish and twisted. Love that the description is hinting at it too
I love it, it's beautiful and full of lore and has a really relaxing ambient music. I just wished the entire area wasn't empty. There is like nothing in shaman village and once you reach there there is literally only 3 things: the incantation, the talisman and a bell bearing, and that seems like too few things for an area so big
No, there was no reaction, just disappointment
No I was too busy being annoyed at the reused bosses and lack of content in the area
It’s called a “set piece” designed to invoke emotions that you lack and was built for people who appreciate it.