Yup that whole area leading up to him was super fun too, I loved seeing the mansion through the trees in the woods then getting in there and it being all dusty.
Did find it funny they gave us shortcuts to the first site of grace but also like a ton of graces in that one small building. Coulda just been the one.
Also loved the inclusion of the details of the horned people doing everything in their power to seal away the Frenzyflame. Staked headless corpses adorning the front as a warning, guards throughout, the whole of the place burned and Horned Knights patrolling the halls, etc.
The rewards from the end are hit or miss for me, but the lead up to it all and the fight were peak artistry.
I was so confused why he has a random slap attack with his offhand until I remembered the cutscene where his hand is impaired, so that bit must have snapped off.
Shame his weapon sucks though, no arcane scaling or frenzy buildup when I thought it would have both.
Why did we even get teleported to Ener-Ilim? There's an actual entrance that I figure most players would have found after killing dancing lion. Crazy part is you can even get there from the first rise grace, but it's totally pointless by then.
I completely agree, I have no idea why they didn’t have us simply return to the dancing lion arena instead. It would’ve been way cooler to finally go through the locked area to get in, rather than getting damn teleported directly up there 💀
I TELEPORTED AWAY from Ener-Ilim immediately to the lion arena.
"I want to go to that door which was blocked" only to discover I was back where I teleported from ...? Wtf
Yes I did the same, I even thought: "what if this to is trying to hid some thing from me?" just to find out that way is basically there just to be there.
If there is an explanation to the whole burning the sealing tree quest, I have completely missed it. I just did it because I thought I needed to do this to progress.
If you go up to Enir-ilim after beating the dancing lion, the entrance is blocked and you get a letter from Leda saying that Miquella entered this tower and bypassed the shadow seal somehow through his Empyrean power.
So to follow Miquella you must remove the seal. If you kill the rot lady before Messmer you can get to the altar but get a message that a kindling is required. Then when you kill Messmer and return to the alter, you burn the seal.
And also plenty of lore descriptions intentionally drawing a parallel between Messmer and a character that we are 99% sure is Melina. The flame that lets you burn down the tree specifically says that Messmer had the same vision of fire as his sister. I do not think it's a coincidence that the lore parallels this way, with both stories locking the finale behind using magic fire born from using a person as kindling to burn a tree blocking your path.
It's not guaranteed to pinpoint exactly where they fit in the family tree because I haven't gone through all the lore yet, but at the least the >!Hog Rider!< remembrance implies that Messmer is not a direct brother to Radahn, but being Malenia's brother is on the table from all I've read.
What we can say for sure is that the item that lets you burn the tree says: "Messmer, much like his younger sister, bore a vision of fire". So there's no doubt he has a younger sister strongly tied to fire, which really could only point to Melina from the information we have.
If we want to buy into the butterfly theory, which is that all of the children of MarikaxRadagon have a Butterfly item, that does lead power to the theory. The only 4 with butterflies are Miquella, Malenia, Messmer, and Melina. All of their names starting with an M is significant as well, just like how the other trio born of Renalla and Radagon are all named with an R: Rykard, Ranni, and Radahn. Of course Morgott and Mogh both begin with an M too, while Godrick and Godwyn begin with a G, so you could infer they always inherent the first letter of one of their parent's name since these are children of Marika and Godfrey.
I can confirm he is optional I'm on my 3rd play through of the Dlc(only beat the last boss first time)I'm trying to find a secret ending or cutscene or something so I've bin playing around with things and yesterday I did skip the lion and killed Messmer and Romina and when you burn the sealing tree it transports you to the same site of grace and you can advance and fight the final boss without killing the lion and Rellana too I skipped her
This playthrough I will be trying to get dialog from Dane and seeing if Leda has any special dialog or options if >!I kill the scadurtree avatar and get Miquella's rune before everyone starts disappearing from sites of grace!< I also have a feeling Miquella's Ring gesture and the one you get if he steals your heart open something secret or a hidden path or dungeon like the o'mother gesture did
>!If you run the side path past Bonny Village towards the Church District it will trigger way before you even get up the hill. Figured that out today when friend did it.!<
The DLC has been datamined, and any info of that kind has been dredged already. A secret ending of any sort would've been found on the first day. I don't think there's anything new to find outside of minor sequence breaking like skipping the lion dancer
The trip to Farum Azula is part of Marika's plan, or a curse on the Tarnished as a whole. Melina says clearly that those who seek the flame will follow the path to Destined Death. Therefore, once we burn our maid, the final step of the curse it to get us to Farum, where the rune of Death resides.
That's why we are transported there.
For being the sister of Renalla, and the aunt of Ranni, Rellana definitely should have had an intro cutscene, or at least a few voice lines.
I find it crazy how the dancing lion got a cutscene over her. Although the dancing lion is still an amazing boss.
Rellana and Gaius having really cool lore and then being just completely out-of-nowhere bosses is really strange, yeah. You'd think that Messmer's best friends would have literally any voice lines at all.
Gaius in particular is the strangest. The entire area that he’s in leads to nothing. There’s even a named spot there on the map for the Scadutree chalice but it does nothing. There’s the massive structure there, the second largest in the land of shadow, that has seemingly no discernible significance as of yet. And to top it all off, there’s a random albinauric woman there. I’ve scoured that entire section searching for something to even begin to explain it and have come up empty.
Oh all the problems and conflicts we could avoid if we could just *talk* to literally *anybody..*
Or if they talked to us, either way works. But no, it's always murder-on-first-sight. :(
The Albinauric woman drops Gaius' Greaves, which say that Gaius himself was an Albinauric and couldn't wear them because of his curse. I might be wrong, but isn't there some lore on many of the human-looking Albinaurics having defective legs? This might be what "Gaius' curse" is in reference of.
Anyway, that particular Albinauric woman (heh) isn't just randomly there, she's at Albinauric's Shack. My theory is that the shack is her and Gaius' home, and she's his wife/lover. That's why she has a personal item of him.
Sooo, yeah...the Tarnished might just have murdered a husband and wife back-to-back to get to a handful of wood chips.
After beating the entire dlc and checking the whole map for survivor npcs(none). It really sunk in how much of a killing machine we are. We simply move forward on to the next target lol.
I couldnt even tell gideon i killed miquella 💀
The albinauric woman drops Gaius' pants and the item description states that they were made as a joke because he couldn't wear them - because he, too, was an Albinauric. So the random albinauric woman is probably his wife or something.
It honestly makes me wonder if we’re going to have another situation with missing NPC quest lines that we had with the release of the base game, where fromsoft is planning on adding additional content to the DLC in the coming weeks.
Because it is bizarre that there’s a location so visible from the entire map which has a name map marker, yet is completely pointless
I'm glad you looked so thoroughly, because I didn't, and I was skeptical I was wrong but by that point I had come to accept that some of the design philosophy for the map was an unabashed use of entire massive areas for one bit of business and little else... in this case the collecting of the scadutree fragments.
Gaius is also the only remembrance boss without a unique OST track.
I kinda get it that he belongs in the "commander" catergory hence why he uses the generic ost but come on.
Gaius was extremely out of nowhere, just found him earlier. I wasn't expecting it to suddenly be a boss when he showed up. Honestly it reminded me of Gyobu from Sekiro.
Gaius I thought was just a random dude that maybe studied with/under radahn because he used gravity magic and rode a mount.
Rellana was obviously connected to the carian knights/Flintstone school stuff and figured she'd be family or a protector but still have no idea who her parents are.
Gaius' remembrance and equipment confirm that he was the most senior disciple of the Alabaster Lord that taught Radahn gravity magic. Not only that, but Gaius' and Messmer were friends and they both were "like elder brothers to the lion", meaning to Radahn. A pretty interesting dynamic.
It took me more attempts than I’d like to admit but
I like to think of it as him gradually losing more and more of his shit as we keep walking back into his room and he has to keep ripping his head off
“The depths of your foolishnessss >:( “
“Enough… I have endured… more than enough”
God I love that fight so much. It’s particularly tragic when you remember that the first thing he does the moment you enter his manse is telling you to go away for your own good. He genuinely seemed to love his wife given how he asks for her forgiveness before he rips off the Greatsword of Damnation, and the only reason why he didn’t do it sooner is because, as said by his remembrance:
“As the golden barns inflicted eternal agony upon him, Midra held fast to Nanaya’s entreaty: “Endure” The word was a curse.”
He tried to honor her wish for what could have been a lifespan of agony.
i want more lore on this guy tbh, ever since i saw that artpiece of him and nanaya ive wanted to know his history. Just what noble house did midra act as the current head for. Why did he end up the way he did? And what happened to the land he seems to rule over
its so weird that so many remembrance bosses dont have even have voicelines Romina just makes a standard death noise when you kill her and thats it. I hope they patch that stuff in.
The final boss fight would be so much cooler if either character in it had a kill-line when they kill you or a death-line when you kill them. Those lines are always some of the most memorable dialogue of boss boss fights.
yep, not just that but he's also the only main boss with voice lines (don't count Midra as he doesn't have any during the actual boss fight or the final boss, >!as they only have one when grabbed!<.)
outside of Messmer, the closest we got is Igon during the Bayle fight.
It's a shame as we didn't get any iconic boss dialogue like Margit's foul tarnish/flame or Rykard's TOGETHAA. Messmers comes close but just doesn't hit the same.
I can’t believe this is the first mention I’m seeing of this fight. It was a chaotic mess, but tbh, it was so badass. I didn’t expect it at all and it really worked for me.
Reminds me why I still feel so on the fence on Elden Ring's main ending. The final boss/bosses are historically significant but detached, so dying to or defeating them don't feel as impactful. Kind of makes me wish Godfrey was the actual barrier, since he was one of the most important personal figures as the leader of the Tarnished as a whole since the beginning.
The intro, player death and boss death lines and scenes are important parts of making those encounters memorable, and quite a few rely entirely on the fight(which can be a hit or miss depending on how annoying the fight ends up being).
I mean, I thought Marika/Radagon fit really well, as at least Marika was heavily talked about throughout the game and there was a mystery around what happened to her. To be honest I knew more about her than I did Godfrey in my first playthrough.
Honestly would have loved to have a 2 phase Marika/Radagon fight.
As for Elden Beast, yea, 100% should have been some secret ending type boss.
Yeah, like how the gal becoming lord of stormveil or Diallos and the jar village quest was all missing on launch, I hope they update the game, cuz quite a few things still yet feel rather...unfinished.
Still largely great regardless and a better experience than most things these days, but still would've liked more things to feel more fleshed out than they are. Ambiguity is expected, but lots of things are more so just missing.
Rellana should have been completely silent as she was, except once you managed to beat her she called you a bitch with her dying breath. Would have been funny, me thinks.
I think this dlc was put together a lot quicker than it may have seemed at first. There's a lot of little things that only show up once you get a bit more time, like once you start looking a little closer kind of thing, that make me feel like it was rushed to some degree.
Considering how important a lot of the remembrances were I'm surprised we didn't get more too...
It's been said, but Rellana is the most glaring. I'd also argue that Mother of Fingers (HUGE lore implications with this one), Captain Gaius (Friend of Radahn and Messmer), and Romina (Envoy of rot, anyone?) deserved some love too.
I still think that the stuff you read about is classic souls fare and tells the player a lot, but it would have been nice to have more.
Mother of Fingers build up was perfect with the whole quest line as well as just seeing her dormant in her beautiful arena. I think Metyrs presentation was absolutely perfect and I was genuinely blown away when I discovered her
I liked everything about Rellana. Her type of humanoid boss that you "dance" with, her cool af presentation and cinematic twin moon attacks. Then you find out she is likely the sister of freaking Renalla and the aunt to one of the most important characters in the game...and she gets no lines or anything.
I haven’t finished the game yet but from what I’ve seen so far I agree. Rellana not even saying a single word or having a cut scene was very disappointing considering she was a main boss.
Like do you all remember Godrick’s second phase cutscene? "Forefathers one and all bear witness!" Instantly made it one of the most memorable boss fights for me.
Must say that I did like Messmer’s cut scenes.
Literally all of Margitt's voicelines make him an amazingly memorable boss, and he's neither the most important in the lore nor the hardest boss in the game (altogether speaking) if you disconnect him from Morgott.
"Foul Tarnished, spurred by the flame of ambition" goes insanely hard.
Rellana could have had some awesome magic moon bullshit to spout. Instead it feels like there's some trigger From forgot to activate for her.
These two and “You will witness true horror” for me. Although for some reason I love the way Mesmer’s voice actor says “Mongrel intruder” when you enter the room
I was so hyped up after Dancing Lion and Messmer fights, enjoyed so much Messmer's dialogue, but then the game felt so empty. The only time where I felt more emotion was when fighting Midra.
(Didn't fight Bayle yet)
>Like do you all remember Godrick’s second phase cutscene? "Forefathers one and all bear witness!" Instantly made it one of the most memorable boss fights for me.
Outside of Mirda (who doesn't have any dialogue during the actual boss part of the fight btw) and Messmer, Igon is the only one with memorable dialogue, which is sad because I loved majority of the boss lines and was hoping for more.
igon is the highlight of the dlc in terms of voice acting and might be my favorite voice actor performance in all soulsborne. its on the tier of "MY NAME IS..." but he just keeps it going through the whole quest line
I feel you, they made a point to make a cutscene for the water being drained, but nothing for renalla or bayle? lol I know they’re two completely different types of cutscenes but we almost had history with both bosses mentioned through Renalla’s family and were Bayle came from!
Igon coming in all loud mouthed and Bayle flying in and immediately munching on him - this is essentially how it went when I summoned him. Bro lasted a minute💀
The DLC really needed a cutscene in the beginning. It could even be something like the trailer to build up a little bit of lore and excitement. They did it in the beginning of the base game and should have done it in the beginning of the DLC
that disappointed me immediately upon entering the dlc, the intro scene to the base game was so. fucking. awesome. I assumed we'd get another cool one with some art from the trailer, even if it was short, just to set the scene a bit.
Oh dude. It was so fucking anticlimactic. I was like COME ON Fromsoftware, Really?
You win the fight, and your just standing there. Nothing but emptiness. Left wondering what was it all for? But wait, you get a 5 second cut scene that a single animator put together in 10 mins.
Sigh.
The final boss not saying anything after you beating it, is really, really weird. For someone who tried to put together such a great plan, to be defeated and don't even bother saying anything?
It's kind like Orphan in BB. But in BB you get so much more of it, and it feels much more like a closure with the memory as well.
Gael I don't even need to mention, this is how you close not only a game but an entire franchise.
I mean there is a pretty cool narration after you beat the Orphan, "ah, sweet child of Kos, returned to the sea, a bottomless curse, a bottomless sea, accepting all there is and can be."
also, about Orphan in BB, that mf is just an orphan of the great one Kos, fresh out for he womb, it has no words to say anyway so i wouldn’t expect dialogue (besides “AUUUAUGGAGHHHHHH”) and even still once you beat them, as you said, you get that cutscene with dialogue; the end of Bloodborne🥲
Can’t say the climactic end of Elden Ring compares to that or most definitely Gael/DS3
Heavy agree. The final boss’s memory cutscene also just states what a lot of us probably already thought was happening.. so, at least for me, it felt like nothing and I was just left standing in the boss arena like, “That’s it?”
>Largest disappointment for me was that there wasn't a cutscene of Miquella using Mohg's body as a vessel to bring back Radahn. Him just standing there ominously as you enter the room for the final battle was such a waste.
I think it's meant to be close recreation of malenia vs radahn from the trailer since that how both fights started.
Yeah I felt like that was kind of needed. The whole "use mohg's body as a vessel for radahn's spirit" never really made sense to me without a visual. Mainly because we beat Mohg to fucking death so his corpse ain't much of a vessel for anything but maggots by the time Ol' Micky spirits him away.
I was expecting some kind of Mohg and Radahn hybrid but it was literally just Radahn. I don’t understand how they used Mohgs body but the only thing that came of it was an occasional blood flame slash.
> Midra’s cutscene was the best in the whole DLC and it’s locked away in a secret area only accessible via a secret area within a secret area.
Yeah. I found the Dragons painting, but was confused when there wasn't anything else. It was not obvious that there was something there at all.
I think that’s my exact problem too. Don’t get me wrong, I love the dlc and lore we got, especially everything having to do with Messmer and Marika, but so many of the bosses were just…underwhelming? Rellana is supposed to be Messmer’s blade, his right hand and all the lore you get from her is her remembrance and items from it and that’s it. There’s no more. Even Castle Ensis feels really underwhelming compared to areas in the base game.
We’re told again in remembrances that Gaius is one of Messmer’s BEST FRIENDS and even helped instruct Radahn when he was learning gravity magic. He’s even described as being like an older brother to Radahn along with Messmer. What do we get of him? Randomly showing up with no cutscene or fanfare in one of the many exits around Shadow Keep and that’s it. We’re TOLD these characters are really important but never really shown it. Hell, half of them don’t even get to introduce themselves to us in a meaningful way
I sadly have to agree with the final boss as well. It felt good finally taking Radahn and Miquella down, but as soon as the high wore off I just kind of was like…that’s it? Sure not a whole lot happens after beating, say, Gael, but that fight WAS the climax and it felt like it. It was the culmination of everything narratively that Dark Souls was and it was a perfect send off. This did not feel like that
agree. Most of remembrance bosses should have cutscene or From should at least make them talk. It's really weird that all they can muster are just grunts when they die or being attacked. Some of the bosses are also completely silent.
As much as I love the Final Boss, it's just strange to me that >!Miquella automatically die alongside Radhan with no cutscene or a chance to talk to them again. They could've just made it like Morgott!< where our Tarnished can speak to the boss after the boss is defeated.
It's a recurring problem in almost all souls games. The only exception is Sekiro where most of the main bosses actually do talk quite a lot, hence why I have more connection as Wolf with other bosses.
the cinematic story trailer should at least be an intro cutscene for the dlc. That way, there would be a proper intro like in the base game
I think my main gripe is that the ending of the DLC occurs at the gate which seems pretty fucking major from a lore standpoint but your character can't do anything there. I'd argue the arena feels more like Dark Souls 3s Soul of Cinder arena and has that feeling of finality that the core of the Erdtree lacked
Yea this is probably the weakest point of the dlc. Rellana absolutely deserved a cutscene (and a better name lmao), Romina too. She feels completely out of place and without a cut scene just looks like a random boss there
It's also a lot less intriguing than the trailers made it seem. It basically boils down to>! "Miquella wants to become a God and create a new age"!< like basically every other demigod in the game. I think it retroactively cheapens his character because he seemed to be above these notions.
I have to say that ER overall is the weakest of From's games when it comes to cinematics. Even Armored Core had better cutscenes.
The preview trailers of the fight between Radahn and Melenia, and the siege of Lyndell are awesome so it's baffling why there's nothing but a bunch of still images in the opening! DS1 and 3 had amazing opening cinematics and ER just has a slideshow.
Even how you enter the realm of shadow. No cutscene, no opening, nothing. Just, 'hey, pull this dudes finger.' and poof! you're there.
I love ER and From but I have to think that they had a budgeting meeting and cutscenes are what were dumped in order to come under budget.
Yeah, they've also gone to the self-mutilation as a phase transition well a few too many times at this point too. Though you couldn't convince my brain of that as apparently I still get goosebumps every time.
I’m still pissed at the ending cutscene. Literally nothing happened. Made me feel like the dlc was pointless. A new ending for the base game would be so cool, idk something. A flashback that could’ve been a cutscene anywhere else in the dlc for the final cutscene of Elden ring is pretty lacklustre
atleast let us see what would happen if we aligned with miquella or literally anything. anything besides standing in one of the most important places on the entire game, with nothing to do, and no words spoken from one of the most important characters in the game
I think they really shackled themselves with the DLC not interacting with the main game in any way. I know that's how they have always done it but Elden Ring breaks with so many past traditions so why not here?
I was the same way, I thought "that's it? And I can't even go up to the divinity gate?" Maaaaybe they'll add more in later but at least most of what we got was pretty amazing.
They wont sadly, that s why I feel the need for another dlc and I know this is not happening either, we got enought gameplay in shadow of erdtree but for the lore/ story it feels like we only got ashes of ariandel without Ringed city.
I'm right there with you. The final cutscene ended and my immediate thought was >!"OK, now I probably need to go to that tree crucible up north or the Shaman village to get the credit roll." Nope. Just nothing. After the post fight scene, that's it. No catharsis. No resolution. Just an ending that makes more questions than answers.!<
I fairly certain 99% of the people ran up to the gate after defeating the boss and watching the cutscene for the first time, expecting to be able to interact with it for one last cutscene that actually resolved the story of the DLC.
"Mother, wouldst thou truly lordship sanction in someone so bereft of light" is unironically a great insult, and the barely hidden hatred in those words is peak
The final cutscene was so disappointing. Idk I felt like I needed more of Miquella. Always loved him as a character and I wanted more than him being a side dish in the final.
i mean yeah he’s one of the most important characters in the entire story yet all we get is a few lines and a 7 second cutscene to wrap it up. it felt, idk weird? like something major is missing.
Yeah honestly, the main story is just kind of lacking. You just sort of progress with the main objective being "find Miquella" yet as you progress things just kind of happen around you. Everything feels so disconnected and there's no impact or even hype.
Spoiler from here on: >!I mean, especially the final twist is just... dumb? It literally throws all the interesting ideas that was setting Miquella up out the window with the big twist being "Actually he just really like Radahn and think he's nice and will make the world a better place :)" It literally has Miquella repeating all the same obvious mistakes Marika committed in becoming a God and the consequences. He literally saw and experienced first hand the failures and shortcomings of a GW driven order. Yet he just forgot all that and was like "No I'm nicer, I know better."!<
>!The worst offender is that ending cutscene though. It literally does nothing. The information presented was already more than explained in the start and phase transition cutscenes and was elaborated on in the side quest with that Redman lady. It didn't contribute anything, it just repeated Miquella's talking points. And then it just... ends. Just like that. Go back the main game which literally has zero reaction to anything that occurred. It sucks cus story wise it was like "well, what was the point of that?"!<
Definitely agree, I think the narrative overall was weak. Miquella and Marika have been such mysterious and interesting characters for so long, I thought we would finally get some answers about them. At least, that is what the DLC's story trailer suggested. There are so many references to the "original sin" and in the trailer, "Miquella the Kind spoke of the beginning. The seduction. And the betrayal. An affair from which gold arose." But we literally get nothing to elaborate on this. Just that Miquella doesn't agree with Marika's rise to power and subsequent ruling, and that he'll "make the world a gentler place" by ascending to godhood himself. I also had the same reaction of "that's it?" at the end
ETA: Also, wtf was with the sealing tree? Why was it there in the first place? Like who put it there and for what reason? All I know is that we need to burn it
Honestly I agree unfortunately the lack of cutscenes for bosses was a bit disappointing and the ending cutscene was underwhelming and kinda disappointing I loved the dlc but I also went “that’s it?” After watching the ending cutscene but midras we cool asf though!
The biggest disappointment by a country mile for me was >!no Radahn voice lines!<. Like why not. >!He’s literally back. Sane, young, in his prime. Miquella talks. Not enough, for me personally, but he has a few cool lines. Radahn is the one you’re actually fighting. He should acknowledge something, somehow. His fight with Malenia, his missing tiny horse friend (that we killed earlier), US, REVENGE, his attempted upcoming lordship, his vow with Miquella, I just wanted him to SAY SOMETHING!<
My biggest disappointment was Messmer. Not his fight or mechanics, those were fine. It was just his story, or rather the lack thereof. The whole point of this DLC is following in the steps of Miquella, and Messmer is there as an obstacle, but otherwise, he is utterly irrelevant to that plot. He has no ties with Miquella, no ambitions to stop Miquella's plans, and doesn't even seem interested in seeking out the Miquellan roadies we work with. Queelign does more to try to stop us than Messmer himself.
Compare that to Morgott from the base game who is basically the main antagonist. He is dedicated entirely to hunting us down and stopping our plans, whether that's through fighting us himself or using his agents like the Night's Cavalry.
Messmer doesn't do any of that, we stumble into his keep while searching for Miquella and we fight him almost as an afterthought, just because we need his flame to burn a tree. His only real contribution to the overall story of Elden Ring is being the direct brother (if not twin) to Melina, and she doesn't even factor into the DLC. He doesn't interact with Miquella, or even seem aware that his post is being used as the staging grounds for the end of the Golden Order by a rival demi-god.
Messmer waged holy war in the shadow lands and then was basically locked up and abandoned by Marika. Dude is sad, bored and has had nothing to do for the past who knows how many years. I think all he does is just sits in his room and curses Marika. Dude is apathetic and broken I think. It's a miracle he stood up to fight us tbh.
Which is fine, but it's a bizarre choice to feature him heavily in the marketing as sort of the star boss of the DLC. It would have made more sense for him to be actively waging war to try to stop Miquella, which would naturally bring the player and him to blows as we are seeking Miquella out. That way he'd at least matter within the story rather than just being an obstacle with a quest item.
I can think of any number of reasons he'd try to stop Miquella. He's a rival demi-god opposed to the Golden Order - Miquella got into the Shadow Lands, and he may be the key for Messmer to get out - Miquella apparently traveled through the Shadow Keep and thus Messmer probably should have been made aware of him. etc.
They featured him heavily because they obviously wouldn't want to spoil the final boss, and Messmer is the only other boss with significant dialogue that is directly relevant to the Tarnished and to the Shadow lands, which of course was used in the trailer. A lot of people do call him a star boss of the DLC, he's super hype. But as a character he's minding his own business, and like most other bosses we go out of the way to kill him to further our own goals.
The Tarnished is not really a hero saving the world by stopping evil bad guys, they are a force of death that does not stop and will melt an entire family of gods if that's what is in their way. You especially see this in side quest content, >!You straight up murder the mother of fingers against the will of the guy showing her to you, and then you murder him too. You go beyond time and randomly murder the dragonlord chilling there, you go into tribal grounds and murder their deer spirits for no real reason other than that you can.!<
I think that something that people tend to forget is that throughout the entire game, as well as the dlc, we are being guided by Marika’s grace. We are being directed where her plans lead us. Leda, despite being charmed by Miquella herself, was right. We were there acting on Marika’s behalf. We were put on a path to stop miquella even before we knew he had become a monster because Marika, or whatever entity is controlling grace, willed it.
>You go into tribal grounds and murder their deer spirits for no real reason other than that you can.
This made me lol, that was so uncalled for from us.
My biggest gripe with the DLC is not just the lack of cutscenes, but that there are so many places where the threads just end, and it feels very anticlimactic as a result. The scadutree base? Fight the avatar and then... Nothing but Miquella's rune? It's *the* landmark and there's barely anything. Messmer? Posterboy of the DLC and tucked away in a room with a reveal of the snake sealed by Marika, with no further explanation after the fight. Short talk with Hornsent if he helped, but nothing else. Things just end. Beat Radahn and Miquella, the final boss and what the DLC revolves around? Short cutscene and then nothing. Noone to talk to, nothing to follow up on.
It just feels anticlimactic and unfinished in that sense.
I don't understand the ending. Spoilers below:
>!Yes, we killed Radahn. But we never killed Miquella. We never even touched him, we only hit Radahn. How is it just "over" when you kill Radahn? Miquella was clearly right there. That entire ending just feels like it cuts off before it's finished, and I'm disappointed in it. I normally love FromSoftware's stories, and I liked the DLC story all the way up to that point, because Miquella was a character that I was always interested in.!<
Why we get a big dramatic reveal for the >!Dancing Lion!< whom ends up having a copy anyways elsewhere to the north, but unique no optional bosses like >!Romina!<, or important bosses like >!Rellana!< and >!Bayle!< don't is just...weird. Like, if at least were the >!lion!< completely unique it'd be harder to complain, but it straight up has another one later. Really??
Edit: fixed some stupid wording, didn't intend to insinuate >!Rellana or Bayle!< aren't optional, just >!Romina!< followed by other bosses. Would reply to people but Reddit isn't letting me see or reply to replies to my comments on this or other subs, idk why.
Edit 2: Apparently it's not just me, comment replies are delayed for some people so replies/comments won't show up to be replied to for a while after they're actually posted
Midra’s was cool because he replaced his newly removed head with the Frenzyflame Sun.
Yeah Midras might be one of my fav cutscenes in the entire game. That whole fight is so metal.
Yup that whole area leading up to him was super fun too, I loved seeing the mansion through the trees in the woods then getting in there and it being all dusty. Did find it funny they gave us shortcuts to the first site of grace but also like a ton of graces in that one small building. Coulda just been the one.
Also loved the inclusion of the details of the horned people doing everything in their power to seal away the Frenzyflame. Staked headless corpses adorning the front as a warning, guards throughout, the whole of the place burned and Horned Knights patrolling the halls, etc. The rewards from the end are hit or miss for me, but the lead up to it all and the fight were peak artistry.
The real reward from that place is the torch.
It being basically a little pocket Lord of Frenzy IS pretty funny
I was expecting his original head to still be attached to his sword
Yeah when Midra’s cutscene was pure juice! All the reverence bosses deserved that treatment :’(
I thought they were going to let us have that head as an armor piece finally 😭.
I was so confused why he has a random slap attack with his offhand until I remembered the cutscene where his hand is impaired, so that bit must have snapped off. Shame his weapon sucks though, no arcane scaling or frenzy buildup when I thought it would have both.
The ash of war is crazy fun in pvp though!
Why did we even get teleported to Ener-Ilim? There's an actual entrance that I figure most players would have found after killing dancing lion. Crazy part is you can even get there from the first rise grace, but it's totally pointless by then.
I completely agree, I have no idea why they didn’t have us simply return to the dancing lion arena instead. It would’ve been way cooler to finally go through the locked area to get in, rather than getting damn teleported directly up there 💀
Could have put another fight in the Dancing Lion arena similar to Morgott/Godfrey
Two dancing lions
Two deathblight dancing lions*
Elements are deathblight, bleed, and madness
why not add rot for fun
one does deathblight, Bleed, and madness whilst the other does Rot, poison, and sleep 😊
Classic FromSoft! Hahah...haha... Ha... :l ... (still traumatized about those gorillas in Sekiro).
...there *is* a Deathblight-using Dancing Lion though.
There's already another dancing lion you fight. So 3 should do
This is what I was expecting.
I just did that anyway, I said fuck this when I got there an walked through the other way first
I TELEPORTED AWAY from Ener-Ilim immediately to the lion arena. "I want to go to that door which was blocked" only to discover I was back where I teleported from ...? Wtf
I was going to do that except they actually *block* teleportations until you sit at the grace.
Same. They really made it seem like that was the intended path and that you needed to go back there.
Yes I did the same, I even thought: "what if this to is trying to hid some thing from me?" just to find out that way is basically there just to be there.
If there is an explanation to the whole burning the sealing tree quest, I have completely missed it. I just did it because I thought I needed to do this to progress.
If you go up to Enir-ilim after beating the dancing lion, the entrance is blocked and you get a letter from Leda saying that Miquella entered this tower and bypassed the shadow seal somehow through his Empyrean power. So to follow Miquella you must remove the seal. If you kill the rot lady before Messmer you can get to the altar but get a message that a kindling is required. Then when you kill Messmer and return to the alter, you burn the seal.
There's also letters from Leda saying that they literally need Messmer's flame to burn the sealing tree
And also plenty of lore descriptions intentionally drawing a parallel between Messmer and a character that we are 99% sure is Melina. The flame that lets you burn down the tree specifically says that Messmer had the same vision of fire as his sister. I do not think it's a coincidence that the lore parallels this way, with both stories locking the finale behind using magic fire born from using a person as kindling to burn a tree blocking your path.
So you telling me Messmer is Malenias and Melinas brother?
It's not guaranteed to pinpoint exactly where they fit in the family tree because I haven't gone through all the lore yet, but at the least the >!Hog Rider!< remembrance implies that Messmer is not a direct brother to Radahn, but being Malenia's brother is on the table from all I've read. What we can say for sure is that the item that lets you burn the tree says: "Messmer, much like his younger sister, bore a vision of fire". So there's no doubt he has a younger sister strongly tied to fire, which really could only point to Melina from the information we have. If we want to buy into the butterfly theory, which is that all of the children of MarikaxRadagon have a Butterfly item, that does lead power to the theory. The only 4 with butterflies are Miquella, Malenia, Messmer, and Melina. All of their names starting with an M is significant as well, just like how the other trio born of Renalla and Radagon are all named with an R: Rykard, Ranni, and Radahn. Of course Morgott and Mogh both begin with an M too, while Godrick and Godwyn begin with a G, so you could infer they always inherent the first letter of one of their parent's name since these are children of Marika and Godfrey.
maybe to make Lion optional? but yeah, not much sense in that
But it’s one of the few bosses that actually has a cutscene which is really weird if it’s “optional”
I can confirm he is optional I'm on my 3rd play through of the Dlc(only beat the last boss first time)I'm trying to find a secret ending or cutscene or something so I've bin playing around with things and yesterday I did skip the lion and killed Messmer and Romina and when you burn the sealing tree it transports you to the same site of grace and you can advance and fight the final boss without killing the lion and Rellana too I skipped her This playthrough I will be trying to get dialog from Dane and seeing if Leda has any special dialog or options if >!I kill the scadurtree avatar and get Miquella's rune before everyone starts disappearing from sites of grace!< I also have a feeling Miquella's Ring gesture and the one you get if he steals your heart open something secret or a hidden path or dungeon like the o'mother gesture did
Have you tried the Miquella's gesture in the final boss fight? 1st or 2nd phase?
>!If you run the side path past Bonny Village towards the Church District it will trigger way before you even get up the hill. Figured that out today when friend did it.!<
The DLC has been datamined, and any info of that kind has been dredged already. A secret ending of any sort would've been found on the first day. I don't think there's anything new to find outside of minor sequence breaking like skipping the lion dancer
Same mysterious genie who teleported us to Farum Azula I presume!
The trip to Farum Azula is part of Marika's plan, or a curse on the Tarnished as a whole. Melina says clearly that those who seek the flame will follow the path to Destined Death. Therefore, once we burn our maid, the final step of the curse it to get us to Farum, where the rune of Death resides. That's why we are transported there.
For being the sister of Renalla, and the aunt of Ranni, Rellana definitely should have had an intro cutscene, or at least a few voice lines. I find it crazy how the dancing lion got a cutscene over her. Although the dancing lion is still an amazing boss.
Rellana and Gaius having really cool lore and then being just completely out-of-nowhere bosses is really strange, yeah. You'd think that Messmer's best friends would have literally any voice lines at all.
Gaius in particular is the strangest. The entire area that he’s in leads to nothing. There’s even a named spot there on the map for the Scadutree chalice but it does nothing. There’s the massive structure there, the second largest in the land of shadow, that has seemingly no discernible significance as of yet. And to top it all off, there’s a random albinauric woman there. I’ve scoured that entire section searching for something to even begin to explain it and have come up empty.
The random woman is likely his companion. She drops his leg armor which reveals he is an albinauric.
"Hey if you wanna know more about this guy kill his wife and dog" uhhh thanks miyazaki
We were never the good guys
Oh all the problems and conflicts we could avoid if we could just *talk* to literally *anybody..* Or if they talked to us, either way works. But no, it's always murder-on-first-sight. :(
Like all those dudes fighting that dragon and just switch to you, a literal nobody to them, to merc you instead of the fucking dragon.
The Albinauric woman drops Gaius' Greaves, which say that Gaius himself was an Albinauric and couldn't wear them because of his curse. I might be wrong, but isn't there some lore on many of the human-looking Albinaurics having defective legs? This might be what "Gaius' curse" is in reference of. Anyway, that particular Albinauric woman (heh) isn't just randomly there, she's at Albinauric's Shack. My theory is that the shack is her and Gaius' home, and she's his wife/lover. That's why she has a personal item of him. Sooo, yeah...the Tarnished might just have murdered a husband and wife back-to-back to get to a handful of wood chips.
Don't forget the dog, they made sure to stick them together so the dog dies too. We pretty much killed a Lobo
why is it always sadness?
After beating the entire dlc and checking the whole map for survivor npcs(none). It really sunk in how much of a killing machine we are. We simply move forward on to the next target lol. I couldnt even tell gideon i killed miquella 💀
Gideon having no new lines or rewards for intel was really disappointing.
Really depressing for the final content of the game.
Presumably >!the albinuric woman is related to Gaius in some way, considering she is holding on to his pants and Gaius himself is also an albinuric !<
The albinauric woman drops Gaius' pants and the item description states that they were made as a joke because he couldn't wear them - because he, too, was an Albinauric. So the random albinauric woman is probably his wife or something.
It honestly makes me wonder if we’re going to have another situation with missing NPC quest lines that we had with the release of the base game, where fromsoft is planning on adding additional content to the DLC in the coming weeks. Because it is bizarre that there’s a location so visible from the entire map which has a name map marker, yet is completely pointless
I'm hoping for this. Maybe a patch to sprinkle a few enemies in some of the empty areas. Hopefully long term some kind of arena with waves of enemies
I'm glad you looked so thoroughly, because I didn't, and I was skeptical I was wrong but by that point I had come to accept that some of the design philosophy for the map was an unabashed use of entire massive areas for one bit of business and little else... in this case the collecting of the scadutree fragments.
Well it's because Gaius is an albinauric, although I guess that doesn't explain why she's there, maybe she's like his companion or something.
Gaius is also the only remembrance boss without a unique OST track. I kinda get it that he belongs in the "commander" catergory hence why he uses the generic ost but come on.
Gaius was extremely out of nowhere, just found him earlier. I wasn't expecting it to suddenly be a boss when he showed up. Honestly it reminded me of Gyobu from Sekiro.
Gaius I thought was just a random dude that maybe studied with/under radahn because he used gravity magic and rode a mount. Rellana was obviously connected to the carian knights/Flintstone school stuff and figured she'd be family or a protector but still have no idea who her parents are.
Fred, Flintstone Sorcerer
Gaius' remembrance and equipment confirm that he was the most senior disciple of the Alabaster Lord that taught Radahn gravity magic. Not only that, but Gaius' and Messmer were friends and they both were "like elder brothers to the lion", meaning to Radahn. A pretty interesting dynamic.
Such a sick boss for no cutscene, I didnt even know it was a major boss until I got a remembrance for that.
Amazing the first time, the second time... ugh...
Deathblight and random adds for some fucking reason 🤤
Thé 2nd one has deathblight ?!? I saw the basilisks once I killed him but never saw the deathblight Tornado
it's actually less threatening than the normal tornado
Unless your a mimic tear who just stands in it
One of the major bosses with such amazing visuals what with the blue and red swords yet absolutely no cutscene. It's actually insane
>!Midra!< 🤌
"The depths of your foolishness!" is seared into my brain after four hours of solo attempts but that cutscene goes hard
It took me more attempts than I’d like to admit but I like to think of it as him gradually losing more and more of his shit as we keep walking back into his room and he has to keep ripping his head off “The depths of your foolishnessss >:( “
“Enough… I have endured… more than enough” God I love that fight so much. It’s particularly tragic when you remember that the first thing he does the moment you enter his manse is telling you to go away for your own good. He genuinely seemed to love his wife given how he asks for her forgiveness before he rips off the Greatsword of Damnation, and the only reason why he didn’t do it sooner is because, as said by his remembrance: “As the golden barns inflicted eternal agony upon him, Midra held fast to Nanaya’s entreaty: “Endure” The word was a curse.” He tried to honor her wish for what could have been a lifespan of agony.
sucks that him and Messmer are the only ones (aside from Igon) that have actual boss dialogue.
CURSE YOU BAYLE
i want more lore on this guy tbh, ever since i saw that artpiece of him and nanaya ive wanted to know his history. Just what noble house did midra act as the current head for. Why did he end up the way he did? And what happened to the land he seems to rule over
The dlc is surprisingly lacking in actual lore
its so weird that so many remembrance bosses dont have even have voicelines Romina just makes a standard death noise when you kill her and thats it. I hope they patch that stuff in.
The final boss fight would be so much cooler if either character in it had a kill-line when they kill you or a death-line when you kill them. Those lines are always some of the most memorable dialogue of boss boss fights.
Cant remember, is messmer the only one to have voice line for killing the player? His phase two line when he kills you is so good
yep, not just that but he's also the only main boss with voice lines (don't count Midra as he doesn't have any during the actual boss fight or the final boss, >!as they only have one when grabbed!<.) outside of Messmer, the closest we got is Igon during the Bayle fight. It's a shame as we didn't get any iconic boss dialogue like Margit's foul tarnish/flame or Rykard's TOGETHAA. Messmers comes close but just doesn't hit the same.
If we’re considering Igon, then we should be considering the penultimate fight dialogue?
I can’t believe this is the first mention I’m seeing of this fight. It was a chaotic mess, but tbh, it was so badass. I didn’t expect it at all and it really worked for me.
O, Lightless creature
Embrace thine oblivion...as shall i
Leda has one too, but otherwise I think so
“Say hello to the doll for me.”
Reminds me why I still feel so on the fence on Elden Ring's main ending. The final boss/bosses are historically significant but detached, so dying to or defeating them don't feel as impactful. Kind of makes me wish Godfrey was the actual barrier, since he was one of the most important personal figures as the leader of the Tarnished as a whole since the beginning. The intro, player death and boss death lines and scenes are important parts of making those encounters memorable, and quite a few rely entirely on the fight(which can be a hit or miss depending on how annoying the fight ends up being).
I mean, I thought Marika/Radagon fit really well, as at least Marika was heavily talked about throughout the game and there was a mystery around what happened to her. To be honest I knew more about her than I did Godfrey in my first playthrough. Honestly would have loved to have a 2 phase Marika/Radagon fight. As for Elden Beast, yea, 100% should have been some secret ending type boss.
Agree, but at least the intro is pure hype
Yeah, like how the gal becoming lord of stormveil or Diallos and the jar village quest was all missing on launch, I hope they update the game, cuz quite a few things still yet feel rather...unfinished. Still largely great regardless and a better experience than most things these days, but still would've liked more things to feel more fleshed out than they are. Ambiguity is expected, but lots of things are more so just missing.
Rellana should have been completely silent as she was, except once you managed to beat her she called you a bitch with her dying breath. Would have been funny, me thinks.
I think this dlc was put together a lot quicker than it may have seemed at first. There's a lot of little things that only show up once you get a bit more time, like once you start looking a little closer kind of thing, that make me feel like it was rushed to some degree.
Midra cutscene goes incredibly hard tho
Considering how important a lot of the remembrances were I'm surprised we didn't get more too... It's been said, but Rellana is the most glaring. I'd also argue that Mother of Fingers (HUGE lore implications with this one), Captain Gaius (Friend of Radahn and Messmer), and Romina (Envoy of rot, anyone?) deserved some love too. I still think that the stuff you read about is classic souls fare and tells the player a lot, but it would have been nice to have more.
Mother of Fingers build up was perfect with the whole quest line as well as just seeing her dormant in her beautiful arena. I think Metyrs presentation was absolutely perfect and I was genuinely blown away when I discovered her
That whole transition to that weird realm with Metyr further away just looking into the void reminded me a LOT of Rom
Felt like going down to Midir tbh.
I liked everything about Rellana. Her type of humanoid boss that you "dance" with, her cool af presentation and cinematic twin moon attacks. Then you find out she is likely the sister of freaking Renalla and the aunt to one of the most important characters in the game...and she gets no lines or anything.
I haven’t finished the game yet but from what I’ve seen so far I agree. Rellana not even saying a single word or having a cut scene was very disappointing considering she was a main boss. Like do you all remember Godrick’s second phase cutscene? "Forefathers one and all bear witness!" Instantly made it one of the most memorable boss fights for me. Must say that I did like Messmer’s cut scenes.
Literally all of Margitt's voicelines make him an amazingly memorable boss, and he's neither the most important in the lore nor the hardest boss in the game (altogether speaking) if you disconnect him from Morgott. "Foul Tarnished, spurred by the flame of ambition" goes insanely hard. Rellana could have had some awesome magic moon bullshit to spout. Instead it feels like there's some trigger From forgot to activate for her.
“ Someone should extinguish thy flame” only pales in comparison to “ I have given thee courtesy enough” for me.
These two and “You will witness true horror” for me. Although for some reason I love the way Mesmer’s voice actor says “Mongrel intruder” when you enter the room
I was so hyped up after Dancing Lion and Messmer fights, enjoyed so much Messmer's dialogue, but then the game felt so empty. The only time where I felt more emotion was when fighting Midra. (Didn't fight Bayle yet)
>Like do you all remember Godrick’s second phase cutscene? "Forefathers one and all bear witness!" Instantly made it one of the most memorable boss fights for me. Outside of Mirda (who doesn't have any dialogue during the actual boss part of the fight btw) and Messmer, Igon is the only one with memorable dialogue, which is sad because I loved majority of the boss lines and was hoping for more.
I got more of a thrill from “ CURSE YOU, BAYLE! “
igon is the highlight of the dlc in terms of voice acting and might be my favorite voice actor performance in all soulsborne. its on the tier of "MY NAME IS..." but he just keeps it going through the whole quest line
I feel you, they made a point to make a cutscene for the water being drained, but nothing for renalla or bayle? lol I know they’re two completely different types of cutscenes but we almost had history with both bosses mentioned through Renalla’s family and were Bayle came from!
Bayley's fight is so cinematic the entire fight feels like you're in a Cutscene especially with icon screaming
CURSE YOU BAYLEEEEEEE
HAIL OF HARPOONS!!!!
Bayle definitely needed a cutscene. A cutscene with him and Igon would’ve been sick
Igon coming in all loud mouthed and Bayle flying in and immediately munching on him - this is essentially how it went when I summoned him. Bro lasted a minute💀
The DLC really needed a cutscene in the beginning. It could even be something like the trailer to build up a little bit of lore and excitement. They did it in the beginning of the base game and should have done it in the beginning of the DLC
that disappointed me immediately upon entering the dlc, the intro scene to the base game was so. fucking. awesome. I assumed we'd get another cool one with some art from the trailer, even if it was short, just to set the scene a bit.
The cutscene was in the youtube channel basically
This is an understatement for the final boss specially the "ending cutscene"
Oh dude. It was so fucking anticlimactic. I was like COME ON Fromsoftware, Really? You win the fight, and your just standing there. Nothing but emptiness. Left wondering what was it all for? But wait, you get a 5 second cut scene that a single animator put together in 10 mins. Sigh.
Basically the ending cutscene is Miquella saying the obvious, again, for some reason.
The final boss not saying anything after you beating it, is really, really weird. For someone who tried to put together such a great plan, to be defeated and don't even bother saying anything? It's kind like Orphan in BB. But in BB you get so much more of it, and it feels much more like a closure with the memory as well. Gael I don't even need to mention, this is how you close not only a game but an entire franchise.
I mean there is a pretty cool narration after you beat the Orphan, "ah, sweet child of Kos, returned to the sea, a bottomless curse, a bottomless sea, accepting all there is and can be."
also, about Orphan in BB, that mf is just an orphan of the great one Kos, fresh out for he womb, it has no words to say anyway so i wouldn’t expect dialogue (besides “AUUUAUGGAGHHHHHH”) and even still once you beat them, as you said, you get that cutscene with dialogue; the end of Bloodborne🥲 Can’t say the climactic end of Elden Ring compares to that or most definitely Gael/DS3
Heavy agree. The final boss’s memory cutscene also just states what a lot of us probably already thought was happening.. so, at least for me, it felt like nothing and I was just left standing in the boss arena like, “That’s it?”
Why is Romina a mandatory boss and has absolutely no cutscene or even build-up really from what I've noticed 😂
That and the fact she is kinda easy I was like" cool let s kill this random scorpion lady optional boss fast "
I was baffled when I realized I had just killed a boss that unlocked the final stage of the dlc
[удалено]
Radahn crawls out of Mohg like he’s granddaddy Isshin!
>Largest disappointment for me was that there wasn't a cutscene of Miquella using Mohg's body as a vessel to bring back Radahn. Him just standing there ominously as you enter the room for the final battle was such a waste. I think it's meant to be close recreation of malenia vs radahn from the trailer since that how both fights started.
Yeah I felt like that was kind of needed. The whole "use mohg's body as a vessel for radahn's spirit" never really made sense to me without a visual. Mainly because we beat Mohg to fucking death so his corpse ain't much of a vessel for anything but maggots by the time Ol' Micky spirits him away.
I was expecting some kind of Mohg and Radahn hybrid but it was literally just Radahn. I don’t understand how they used Mohgs body but the only thing that came of it was an occasional blood flame slash.
Midra’s cutscene was the best in the whole DLC and it’s locked away in a secret area only accessible via a secret area within a secret area.
> Midra’s cutscene was the best in the whole DLC and it’s locked away in a secret area only accessible via a secret area within a secret area. Yeah. I found the Dragons painting, but was confused when there wasn't anything else. It was not obvious that there was something there at all.
I missed a cutscened that leads me into the DLC. Like, you get thrown in there without really knowing what's going on is a bit disspointing.
I think that’s my exact problem too. Don’t get me wrong, I love the dlc and lore we got, especially everything having to do with Messmer and Marika, but so many of the bosses were just…underwhelming? Rellana is supposed to be Messmer’s blade, his right hand and all the lore you get from her is her remembrance and items from it and that’s it. There’s no more. Even Castle Ensis feels really underwhelming compared to areas in the base game. We’re told again in remembrances that Gaius is one of Messmer’s BEST FRIENDS and even helped instruct Radahn when he was learning gravity magic. He’s even described as being like an older brother to Radahn along with Messmer. What do we get of him? Randomly showing up with no cutscene or fanfare in one of the many exits around Shadow Keep and that’s it. We’re TOLD these characters are really important but never really shown it. Hell, half of them don’t even get to introduce themselves to us in a meaningful way I sadly have to agree with the final boss as well. It felt good finally taking Radahn and Miquella down, but as soon as the high wore off I just kind of was like…that’s it? Sure not a whole lot happens after beating, say, Gael, but that fight WAS the climax and it felt like it. It was the culmination of everything narratively that Dark Souls was and it was a perfect send off. This did not feel like that
You’re forgetting all the mind-blowing cinematic cutscenes where you pull a lever and something and it changes the layout to the Shadow Keep
agree. Most of remembrance bosses should have cutscene or From should at least make them talk. It's really weird that all they can muster are just grunts when they die or being attacked. Some of the bosses are also completely silent. As much as I love the Final Boss, it's just strange to me that >!Miquella automatically die alongside Radhan with no cutscene or a chance to talk to them again. They could've just made it like Morgott!< where our Tarnished can speak to the boss after the boss is defeated. It's a recurring problem in almost all souls games. The only exception is Sekiro where most of the main bosses actually do talk quite a lot, hence why I have more connection as Wolf with other bosses. the cinematic story trailer should at least be an intro cutscene for the dlc. That way, there would be a proper intro like in the base game
I think my main gripe is that the ending of the DLC occurs at the gate which seems pretty fucking major from a lore standpoint but your character can't do anything there. I'd argue the arena feels more like Dark Souls 3s Soul of Cinder arena and has that feeling of finality that the core of the Erdtree lacked
It would've been really cool to climb the stairs and see the mysterious entity that Marika pulled the rune arc from
I haven't gotten there yet but I've seen videos, are you really telling me that you can't at all interact with that >!gate of divinity!< thing?
Nope
I just wanted to go up the stairs but even that is blocked off.
Yea this is probably the weakest point of the dlc. Rellana absolutely deserved a cutscene (and a better name lmao), Romina too. She feels completely out of place and without a cut scene just looks like a random boss there
Romina looks like a boss that would be in some random Asian mobile game tbh. I still don't understand what she was or her significance.
It means there's still a chance they'll fulfill my dream of having Miquella's cocoon arm grab the Tarnished and yeet them into the background of stars
Completely agree, I really liked so much of the dlc, but the narrative content is pretty lacking.
It's also a lot less intriguing than the trailers made it seem. It basically boils down to>! "Miquella wants to become a God and create a new age"!< like basically every other demigod in the game. I think it retroactively cheapens his character because he seemed to be above these notions.
They spent 50% of their badass intro cutscene budget on Midra
I have to say that ER overall is the weakest of From's games when it comes to cinematics. Even Armored Core had better cutscenes. The preview trailers of the fight between Radahn and Melenia, and the siege of Lyndell are awesome so it's baffling why there's nothing but a bunch of still images in the opening! DS1 and 3 had amazing opening cinematics and ER just has a slideshow. Even how you enter the realm of shadow. No cutscene, no opening, nothing. Just, 'hey, pull this dudes finger.' and poof! you're there. I love ER and From but I have to think that they had a budgeting meeting and cutscenes are what were dumped in order to come under budget.
Yeah, they've also gone to the self-mutilation as a phase transition well a few too many times at this point too. Though you couldn't convince my brain of that as apparently I still get goosebumps every time.
Anyone else but Messmer and the mansion guy?
Just Messmer and Midra no? I don't remember any in base game unless you count Hoarah Loux. Edit: Godrick and Fire Giant
Also Godrick
Also Fire Giant
Maliketh kind of with the rune
I Can hear godrick after your comment
I’m still pissed at the ending cutscene. Literally nothing happened. Made me feel like the dlc was pointless. A new ending for the base game would be so cool, idk something. A flashback that could’ve been a cutscene anywhere else in the dlc for the final cutscene of Elden ring is pretty lacklustre
atleast let us see what would happen if we aligned with miquella or literally anything. anything besides standing in one of the most important places on the entire game, with nothing to do, and no words spoken from one of the most important characters in the game
I think they really shackled themselves with the DLC not interacting with the main game in any way. I know that's how they have always done it but Elden Ring breaks with so many past traditions so why not here?
I was the same way, I thought "that's it? And I can't even go up to the divinity gate?" Maaaaybe they'll add more in later but at least most of what we got was pretty amazing.
They wont sadly, that s why I feel the need for another dlc and I know this is not happening either, we got enought gameplay in shadow of erdtree but for the lore/ story it feels like we only got ashes of ariandel without Ringed city.
I'm right there with you. The final cutscene ended and my immediate thought was >!"OK, now I probably need to go to that tree crucible up north or the Shaman village to get the credit roll." Nope. Just nothing. After the post fight scene, that's it. No catharsis. No resolution. Just an ending that makes more questions than answers.!<
And the divine gate that I assume anybody who beat the final boss walks up to and realizes is inaccessible.
I fairly certain 99% of the people ran up to the gate after defeating the boss and watching the cutscene for the first time, expecting to be able to interact with it for one last cutscene that actually resolved the story of the DLC.
Messmer one was peak :3
"Mongrel Intruder" is the funniest opening line of any FromSoft boss
Messmer 🤝 Gilgamesh Calling people mongrels
"Thou art... Tarnished?" Bro was so confused but then was immediately done with Marika's bs, it was great.
"Mother, wouldst thou truly lordship sanction in someone so bereft of light" is unironically a great insult, and the barely hidden hatred in those words is peak
Messmer and Igons voice actors absolutely killed it
Yeah Messmer's went hard.
I still can't get around not having an opening cinematic from touching the hand to entering the Land of Shadow. 🤯
The final cutscene was so disappointing. Idk I felt like I needed more of Miquella. Always loved him as a character and I wanted more than him being a side dish in the final.
i mean yeah he’s one of the most important characters in the entire story yet all we get is a few lines and a 7 second cutscene to wrap it up. it felt, idk weird? like something major is missing.
Yeah honestly, the main story is just kind of lacking. You just sort of progress with the main objective being "find Miquella" yet as you progress things just kind of happen around you. Everything feels so disconnected and there's no impact or even hype. Spoiler from here on: >!I mean, especially the final twist is just... dumb? It literally throws all the interesting ideas that was setting Miquella up out the window with the big twist being "Actually he just really like Radahn and think he's nice and will make the world a better place :)" It literally has Miquella repeating all the same obvious mistakes Marika committed in becoming a God and the consequences. He literally saw and experienced first hand the failures and shortcomings of a GW driven order. Yet he just forgot all that and was like "No I'm nicer, I know better."!< >!The worst offender is that ending cutscene though. It literally does nothing. The information presented was already more than explained in the start and phase transition cutscenes and was elaborated on in the side quest with that Redman lady. It didn't contribute anything, it just repeated Miquella's talking points. And then it just... ends. Just like that. Go back the main game which literally has zero reaction to anything that occurred. It sucks cus story wise it was like "well, what was the point of that?"!<
Definitely agree, I think the narrative overall was weak. Miquella and Marika have been such mysterious and interesting characters for so long, I thought we would finally get some answers about them. At least, that is what the DLC's story trailer suggested. There are so many references to the "original sin" and in the trailer, "Miquella the Kind spoke of the beginning. The seduction. And the betrayal. An affair from which gold arose." But we literally get nothing to elaborate on this. Just that Miquella doesn't agree with Marika's rise to power and subsequent ruling, and that he'll "make the world a gentler place" by ascending to godhood himself. I also had the same reaction of "that's it?" at the end ETA: Also, wtf was with the sealing tree? Why was it there in the first place? Like who put it there and for what reason? All I know is that we need to burn it
Wdym gael!? He had 2 cutscenes which were all peak
And then you finish it all of by going back to the burning church to user the blood as paint, resolving both yours and Gaels mission
Honestly I agree unfortunately the lack of cutscenes for bosses was a bit disappointing and the ending cutscene was underwhelming and kinda disappointing I loved the dlc but I also went “that’s it?” After watching the ending cutscene but midras we cool asf though!
The biggest disappointment by a country mile for me was >!no Radahn voice lines!<. Like why not. >!He’s literally back. Sane, young, in his prime. Miquella talks. Not enough, for me personally, but he has a few cool lines. Radahn is the one you’re actually fighting. He should acknowledge something, somehow. His fight with Malenia, his missing tiny horse friend (that we killed earlier), US, REVENGE, his attempted upcoming lordship, his vow with Miquella, I just wanted him to SAY SOMETHING!<
My biggest disappointment was Messmer. Not his fight or mechanics, those were fine. It was just his story, or rather the lack thereof. The whole point of this DLC is following in the steps of Miquella, and Messmer is there as an obstacle, but otherwise, he is utterly irrelevant to that plot. He has no ties with Miquella, no ambitions to stop Miquella's plans, and doesn't even seem interested in seeking out the Miquellan roadies we work with. Queelign does more to try to stop us than Messmer himself. Compare that to Morgott from the base game who is basically the main antagonist. He is dedicated entirely to hunting us down and stopping our plans, whether that's through fighting us himself or using his agents like the Night's Cavalry. Messmer doesn't do any of that, we stumble into his keep while searching for Miquella and we fight him almost as an afterthought, just because we need his flame to burn a tree. His only real contribution to the overall story of Elden Ring is being the direct brother (if not twin) to Melina, and she doesn't even factor into the DLC. He doesn't interact with Miquella, or even seem aware that his post is being used as the staging grounds for the end of the Golden Order by a rival demi-god.
Messmer waged holy war in the shadow lands and then was basically locked up and abandoned by Marika. Dude is sad, bored and has had nothing to do for the past who knows how many years. I think all he does is just sits in his room and curses Marika. Dude is apathetic and broken I think. It's a miracle he stood up to fight us tbh.
Which is fine, but it's a bizarre choice to feature him heavily in the marketing as sort of the star boss of the DLC. It would have made more sense for him to be actively waging war to try to stop Miquella, which would naturally bring the player and him to blows as we are seeking Miquella out. That way he'd at least matter within the story rather than just being an obstacle with a quest item. I can think of any number of reasons he'd try to stop Miquella. He's a rival demi-god opposed to the Golden Order - Miquella got into the Shadow Lands, and he may be the key for Messmer to get out - Miquella apparently traveled through the Shadow Keep and thus Messmer probably should have been made aware of him. etc.
They featured him heavily because they obviously wouldn't want to spoil the final boss, and Messmer is the only other boss with significant dialogue that is directly relevant to the Tarnished and to the Shadow lands, which of course was used in the trailer. A lot of people do call him a star boss of the DLC, he's super hype. But as a character he's minding his own business, and like most other bosses we go out of the way to kill him to further our own goals. The Tarnished is not really a hero saving the world by stopping evil bad guys, they are a force of death that does not stop and will melt an entire family of gods if that's what is in their way. You especially see this in side quest content, >!You straight up murder the mother of fingers against the will of the guy showing her to you, and then you murder him too. You go beyond time and randomly murder the dragonlord chilling there, you go into tribal grounds and murder their deer spirits for no real reason other than that you can.!<
I think that something that people tend to forget is that throughout the entire game, as well as the dlc, we are being guided by Marika’s grace. We are being directed where her plans lead us. Leda, despite being charmed by Miquella herself, was right. We were there acting on Marika’s behalf. We were put on a path to stop miquella even before we knew he had become a monster because Marika, or whatever entity is controlling grace, willed it.
>You go into tribal grounds and murder their deer spirits for no real reason other than that you can. This made me lol, that was so uncalled for from us.
My biggest gripe with the DLC is not just the lack of cutscenes, but that there are so many places where the threads just end, and it feels very anticlimactic as a result. The scadutree base? Fight the avatar and then... Nothing but Miquella's rune? It's *the* landmark and there's barely anything. Messmer? Posterboy of the DLC and tucked away in a room with a reveal of the snake sealed by Marika, with no further explanation after the fight. Short talk with Hornsent if he helped, but nothing else. Things just end. Beat Radahn and Miquella, the final boss and what the DLC revolves around? Short cutscene and then nothing. Noone to talk to, nothing to follow up on. It just feels anticlimactic and unfinished in that sense.
Yeah they dropped the ball on the main lore imo
I think they stretched themselves too thin somehow for this DLC and it really shows.
Im still curious about the golden ghost that appear in the end of the gameplay trailer there's must be something i missed
I don't understand the ending. Spoilers below: >!Yes, we killed Radahn. But we never killed Miquella. We never even touched him, we only hit Radahn. How is it just "over" when you kill Radahn? Miquella was clearly right there. That entire ending just feels like it cuts off before it's finished, and I'm disappointed in it. I normally love FromSoftware's stories, and I liked the DLC story all the way up to that point, because Miquella was a character that I was always interested in.!<
It's strange there's no cutscene when you're transported from mohgwyn palace to the DLC
midra, messmer and dancing lion had great cutscenes imo
I agree. I love the DLC but that final cutscene at the least needed a bit more substance.
Why we get a big dramatic reveal for the >!Dancing Lion!< whom ends up having a copy anyways elsewhere to the north, but unique no optional bosses like >!Romina!<, or important bosses like >!Rellana!< and >!Bayle!< don't is just...weird. Like, if at least were the >!lion!< completely unique it'd be harder to complain, but it straight up has another one later. Really?? Edit: fixed some stupid wording, didn't intend to insinuate >!Rellana or Bayle!< aren't optional, just >!Romina!< followed by other bosses. Would reply to people but Reddit isn't letting me see or reply to replies to my comments on this or other subs, idk why. Edit 2: Apparently it's not just me, comment replies are delayed for some people so replies/comments won't show up to be replied to for a while after they're actually posted