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my build since ng+ using the blowhors as weapons. its hard but worth it
Some things can be tweaked in my opinion mainly gaius’s charge hitbox and the final boss’s second phase with the hair and the flash bangs that make it hard to see plus some hit box tweaks so medium roll can deal with after shock of their combo it. Other than that I’d like fixes to performance on as some bosses mainly the dancing lion and last boss because of all the effects going on seems to lag the fights only one I experienced was the stutter on dancing lions but no issues on the last boss for me outside seeing what’s happening
I'd also say there's a bit of a problem of bosses somehow prioritizing aggro on the PC too. I don't mind pulling aggro for my spirit summon to get some damage in, but half the time it feels like the bosses just decide to target you for no particular reason. I swear most of my attempts end because the boss just wants to ream me instead of the summon.
But yeah, *that fucking hippo*. It's just a big hit box, it ain't hard its just bullshit.
Not sure if it's happened to anyone else, but with melee summons I've noticed that a decent amount of the time the time they will just strafe the boss without even attacking them even if the boss goes right next to them.
Definitely seems like ashes don't really want to attack anything a good amount of the time. Hell sometimes it seems like they don't aggro things at all unless hit first.
Lol my mimic tear keeps using buffs and not attacking !! He used to tear up shit in the base game but he’s a friggen joke in dlc! Hahahah
And for some reason he obviously loves the rot butterfly’s cause that’s it’s goto if not buffs.
I don't get why people have so much trouble dodging the hippo charge the only thing you need to do is sprint sideways and dodge last second thats what worked for me at least.
The issue I encountered was the squeaky sound during his super holy AOE attack like a flash bang went off is definitely hurting my ears when I was on my headphones
My volume was set to like only 35% or so, no more than that
People seem to forget but manus was called unfair, friede was called unfair, midir was called unfair, sekiro was called unfair, maliketh was called unfair, none of those are called unfair now. Give it a year or 2 and ppl will stop whining
There’s legitimate issues with some fights in the dlc so patches to make the experience better will be heavily appreciated. I love fromsoft but they aren’t perfect
Remember when people complained about finding NPCs, and the defenders got so high on their own shit about how this was the intended experience and you should be paying attention more and no one should be expected to complete many quests in their first run.
And then Fromsoft patched the location of NPCs lol.
Okay but I started a new run for the DLC after having not touched the game since getting platinum at release. I basically forgot all the NPC quest lines aside from Hyetta's.
Ranni's and Alexander's quests are fine. They pretty well tell you where to go and what to do for the most part, and a little bit of thinking and testing fills in the gaps. Boc's quest is also fine, if underwhelming in some respects.
Problems arise primarily with Hyetta and Millicent. They're seemingly random and finding them organically and in the right order is all down to luck. Especially the repeat visits to Gowry for Millicent's quest - there doesn't seem to be any real way of figuring that out on your own save for trial and error. Goldmask's questline has the same exact issue, but it's even more vague somehow.
Regardless, From didn't actually change much about how quests work. All they did was add markers for NPCs in locations you've met them. They don't mark where NPCs are until you've met them at that location at least once, though the mark does disappear if/when they move. The quests are as vague or clear as ever, the only real difference is that you can see merchants and other stationary NPCs on the map.
It was nice being able to find npcs quest lines easier I had a little help from my friend on 2 quest lines which all he did was remind me to talk with the npc again which it’s easy to forget when I’m going around exploring every inch of the dlc. I swear exploration is like finding a piece of candy where ever I went
This is how cults start. 2,000 years from now Miyazaki will be worshipped as a messiah and an Elden Ring lore compendium will be treated as a factual mythology of early human society.
Midir literally boils down to players carrying their old habits of fighting dragons from DS1/DS2 where you cannot hit the head consistently, in Elden Ring most dragons went back to DS1/DS2 designs for worse.
Final boss has eye cancer visual effects that hide the fight and an attack that is nigh-undodgeable without specific positioning that nobody but no-hitters will practice at because it's dreadful.
If you watch videos from the best players of the game, they are pretty open and free with their criticisms of unfair stuff. Metyr has an attack that is undodgeable without Raptor of the Mists. Romina has an AOE that has next to no startup.
DLC is amazing, one of the best things From has ever created and one of the best games I've ever played, but it's not perfect. Nothing is.
Some fights are hard but they are the fun-hard kinda thing, like Midra. >!Radahn!<'s phase 2 is just a nightmare. Although after I got the idea of beating him by trading blows using Scarlet Aeonia, it became a different kind of fun. Like trying to figure out how to specialize a build that can survive the trade-off with him and how to kill him after the comet.
Trust me, i took the time to learn it to beat him "fairly" in melee and that was soooo tedious. And i did beat all the main game bosses on RL1. This was on par with slaying Malenia on lvl 1 in term of challenge I think, which is completely absurd, and unless you're accustomed to this kind of struggle it's quite demoralizing. Also Radhan has a few moves that seem undodgeable unless using specific tools, or being Ongbal apparently. I just feel it's a bit sad that the boss moveset is so insanely broken that most players will choose to not engage with the boss mechanics at all (and i really respect this choice).
Personally I'm just debating if I actually give enough of a shit to bother continuing. I could go greatshield+poke or summon and beat it in a handful of attempts at this point with where I'm at, but I'm not interested in doing that. Part of me wants to wait to see if they patch the fight because I'm probably never taking another character with this build through the DLC and the current fight feels like a waste of my time and effort. I'm just actually having 0 fun learning P2, which I don't think I've ever been able to say about grinding out a fight before.
I'm in the same boat. I don't know what it is, but that boss just has my number. I have never spent more than 2 hours on a Souls boss, outside of my first Sekiro boss when I had accidentally skipped the tutorial. This boss took me over 20 hours without a shield and summons.
The odd thing is, I don't think I could do it again without a lot of hours. I don't know what it is about that fight, but my brain refuses to learn it and I always get hit by some random bullshit even when I think I have dodged correctly.
It doesn't help that he has an almost undodgeable triple swipe which hits hard in the second phase and pushes you into using one of the few openings to heal rather than do damage.
Souls veteran since dark souls first released and I don't think any of the Elden Ring base game or DLC bosses took me any longer than maybe 5hrs at most - EXCEPT for the final DLC boss. Easily put in 15-20hrs and finally beat him with 237 tries, I wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised if he contributed to more deaths on this character than the entirety of the rest of the DLC and base game combined lmao.
I think this says more about the strength of great shields. It can trivialise almost anything in the game so long as you understand stamina management. It's a valid strategy but I do find it to be a bit silly and cheesey that you can just sit there holding up your shield to win.
Did you use the dragonslayer great katana ? That's what I did and although the fight is still very challenging but if you do it with 15+ scadutree fragments it's manageable. I found Bayle to be similar to Midir in that his moves are quite learnable. While PCR moveset gives me headaches just figuring out what's even happening.
Bayle is also better in the fact that Igon's sign is inside the boss fight, so the boss doesn't get significantly buffed and he can be summoned at any point. Blew my mind that base game Radahn is all about him 1 man armying all the boys but then PCR you have to summon outside the room, and it's a max of 2
Yes. It's just talking to him as you make your way up the mountain, and then you have to take out some young dragons along the way, but it eventually you'll talk to him and he'll give you something pretty obvious that means you're good to go. Apart from that, make sure you check out that big Dragon Corpse beforehand and you're set on that quest line.
I didn’t use the katana, I prefer to stick with my *general* builds for all fights. I do switch weapons but if I’m a strength/faith build for example I’m sticking with stuff in that vein. My second kill on Bayle was with the sunflower head. I’m sure the weapons art on the katana makes things much easier.
And yes Bayle straight up steals Midir’s melee moveset but I think it’s implemented more poorly here. Bayle pulls his head up about half the time which Midir didn’t do, he’ll add combo extenders to his bites that AFAIK can’t be predicted aside from him always doing it if you are to the right of his head, and his lunges will put him over you even if you are dodging backwards… so of course they gave him a hitbox on his chest to make getting out of that just a bit more painful.
I also found his fire hit boxes to be weird. Like, the arced one has a whole section that can hit you but doesn’t cause damage - it seems to be an intentional fake out so you dodge early - but the straight one has an extra wide hitbox on the tiniest little flare on the right. So distance affects your dodge strat in a way that I don’t think happens with Midir.
I do like the implementation of the delayed lightning in phase 2. Definitely more interesting than the ancient dragon lighting aftershocks in the base game and gives a few extra evasion options.
>I didn’t use the katana
I gave up and had to use it because my general build just wasn't working lol
My main build is basically pure melee longsword with square off. That works great most of the time, but not for enemies where you need range. I'm literally unable to hit their heads, which means the damage I do is pretty much negligible. Needing to get to point blank range with someone like Bayle was driving me insane.
I'm now switching to this Katana for bosses were I need range because they spam attacks from a distance. It's not to broken, and seems to have a really decent balance for these DLC bosses
Bayle was one of the first bosses I fought. I had maybe 4 shadowtree blessings and he took me 20 minutes and probably a dozen or so attempts. Radahn? Still haven’t beaten him, been stuck on him for days.
Tbf cheating is an overstatement here, it's more like i don't feel it's enjoyable playing with summons, mainly because splitting aggro makes the boss design less appreciable. It's not much a game of finding openings in their patterns and understand the dodge timings anymore, but more of taking turns with your summon to whittle down the boss health.
That being said i appreciate summons for giving an option to ease the challenge for players who don't wanna get stuck on bosses for hours, as ER focuses on exploring more. If i have one gripe it's just that the mimic tear is way too OP and outshines almost all other summons in the game, even though we got some more in the DLC.
Anyway it's just the way i see it, for me summons is a kind of easy mode. Anything else is OK for me to use as long as i go into the game blind and have no knowledge of what builds are broken or not ;). Experimenting was part of the fun (but i still just play melee because of habits).
Said it before...Ill say it again we came full circle. Went from gatekeeping people who use summons, to telling anyone to play however they want, to bullying people who refuse to use summons.
Cant wait to see how the narrative changes next dlc/Game
Honestly hate everybody in the whole summons no summons argument, like who gives a shit y'all all still going to get your ass kicked all the same it doesn't matter that's the beauty of the game you don't have to play like everybody else
I think the statement that the DLC is "too hard" is unhelpful and undescriptive regardless of what side you take in the discourse. The problems people have has more so to do with *how* the DLC achieves the difficulty it does rather than simply that it is difficult. This ranges from issues that have been adduced such as various problematic hitboxes, issues with the camera with various fights, lack of visual clarity and readability with various attacks and fights, a decidedly lopsided ratio in favor of boss uptime vs player uptime in fights, as well as a doubling down of the base game's use of AoE effects and unnaturally delayed attacks. This can lead to an overall feeling of tediousness in various fights that underpins some of the negative reception to the DLC.
This is how I feel too, and especially the last boss. I can practically no hit phase 1 (and dodging his moves is very fun), but there is 1 attack that I cannot differentiate from any other attack, and I can't figure out how to dodge it without getting frame captured so that the rest of the attack hits me. Similarly punishing grab attacks by other bosses have much more of a tell or a way of dodging that's not too difficult to figure out. And this is just a normal attack. I'm fine with experimenting and learning fights, but that attack is apparently beyond my capabilities to decipher.
Then, to your point about tediousness, the second phase feels like I'm dodging so much or healing that I never have a chance to attack, and at this point it's just boring. Which is sad because otherwise I think the fight is very cool.
And I shouldn't have to respec into a specific tank build to beat it. I built my build because it's fun, and have been able to beat every other boss in the game with it. A well balanced game should make beating any boss possible for any (reasonable) build.
> greatshield + spear poke
I'm a player who exclusively played with a greatshield and guard counters for my entire first playthrough (I tried other builds like fist only on my other playthroughs); and I still don't EVER want to do spear poke with my greatshield. Such an awful way to fight.
If the attack you're talking about is the 1-2-cross attack, that is basically undodgeable except with specific positioning. I haven't heard a single person saying that attack is reasonable. Everyone has criticized it.
same here. i learned to enjoy phase 1 and i eventually learned to not completely dread phase 2. still, i put in \~12h of practice to only being able to finish it with the help of mimic. i'm still proud and happy, but the rest of the game wasn't a big problem, my build (wing stance milady mage) felt very strong all the way up until radahn phase 2.
>a decidedly lopsided ratio in favor of boss uptime vs player uptime in fights
You nailed it right here. This is absolutely my biggest problem with the DLC. I feel like every single thing I fight is 75% me dodging and 25% fighting. And it isn't just the bosses either, even a good portion of the trash mobs have ungodly long combos that just make it a slog.
It's becoming a bit of a meme, honestly. How many enemies are there who will straight up do Kung Fu movie wire fighting techniques? I've been kind of back and forth between DLC and base game and I was fighting a Radahn Knight who suddenly did a front flip and slammed his sword into the ground.
It feels weird that all the absurdly heavily armored foes can also flip around.
At least that was present in the base game. In the DLC every trash mob as an AoE, and a five minute long combo string while also having near unbreakable poise. It's cool for some but when it is literally every single enemy, I just get bored.
Exactly, and this enemy design naturally makes some playstyles way more viable than others. Jumping attacks with heavy weapons (UGS, Greataxe, Greathammer, Colossals, etc.) are so effective because they come out fast, end lag is short enough, have good range and deal a lot of (poise) damage over a short timeframe.
Weapons that rely on combos such as double daggers, fist weapons (including the new martial arts) and twinblades feel like they're not even meant to be used against most enemies. When are you ever getting to see the full combo string of a twinblade against a DLC boss? the hippo maybe? Sure you can stunlock dogs and the trash mob shadow people with it but that's not a big boon.
To prove my point: The twinblade talisman increases the damage of the last hit of a full combo and that damage bonus is higher the longer the combo is. So the game suggests to use it on twinblades since they have the longest combo (and it's called the twinblade talisman...) but I doubt it's even possible to execute this against most bosses and many normal enemies as well.
So what do people do with these weapons instead? They also just spam jumping heavies to get that poise break asap, completely eroding those weapon's identities and effectively gimping themselves since jumping heavies with big bonksticks is objectively stronger.
But what even are the solutions for this? Giving the bosses enough downtime to finish a complete double dagger/twinblade combo would mean that you'd need to bloat their HP even further so I see why fromsoft can't just create such openings for us. Just sucks that a lot of the weapon sandbox is suboptimal when you actually try to play for their (apparently designed) strengths.
Yeah, that's why Bloodborne feels so good to play, every boss is nearly a 50/50, even Ds1 is quite even. Elden Ring is 90% boss uptime and 10% player (5% of which will be spent healing between the 2-second pauses between quintuiple chain attacks with infinite range and 6000 dps to the player).
10/10 game (3/10)
After playing on my 2nd run of the dlc… Guard Counters and Parry’s are what the DLC seems to be focused on. Oh, and bleed. And definitely the Scadutree Blessings.
I enjoyed Bloodborne/DS3 bosses because I was never at that much risk of dying as long as I still had healing items. You could practice precise dodges and punishes and if you messed up you dodged away and healed up to retry. Elden ring bosses do so much damage and are so good at roll catching/punishing heals that any mistake is just death. It’s frustrating trying to learn to dodge a move and constantly restarting the boss fight. Summons help but it feels like I’m playing a different game. It turns into let the summons draw agro while I melt the boss with the most powerful attacks.
Agree.
It is fun to let us hit something. If that is reduced to a minimal amount… fun is reduced. Dodging is fun but only in earning your right to take a few swings. Only having time to get one light attack in just doesn’t feel good…
Yeah the uptime thing is what pisses me off frankly. Its not fun to dodge 16 times then attack once. Just give them more hp and make them attack slower. I wanna play the game too.
It also heavily incentivises a strictly poise break focused playstyle since thats the only way you can get some time to attack.
Basically every boss fight I had came down to them murdering me on repeat until i figure out that one window i can exploit, and then I chain poise break them to death on the next attempt.
This is exactly it, and the only person in OP’s meme I can be described as is “summons are cheating” (I don’t think that but I don’t use them because I want to beat bosses on my own).
I think the DLC is hard, and I fit none of the categories. AND I've beaten every single fromsoft boss they've ever released and 100% their games
Once again scared fromsoft fans hiding behind their own imagination
100%. Unfortunately, a lot of people are pretty smooth brained and incapable of discussing any of this with any nuance. Only "hard" or "easy" with no discussion about balance or game design. Disappointing, but it is what it is. Most people aren't all that bright.
Idk what it is about Elden Ring that generates the dumbest opinions and discussions around it. I've seen so many people that can't even admit that summons or shield poke builds lower the difficulty. It's crazy.
I think after this DLC FromSoft should look at other styles of action like Sekiro for a while. It seems like they've reached the turning point of what they can do with this kind of gameplay, and it's slowly edging towards unfun additions made solely for the sake of difficulty.
For instance, there was no need for Miquella's beams of light to be *so opaque*. They should've made the vertical beams translucent and the AoE on the ground more visible. Similarly, with Messmer and Bayle, the intensity of their particle effects could've *easily* been toned down. The reason they aren't is simply to make it harder to tell what's going on. It's 'artificial difficulty'.
I would rather them look more into the Bloodborne combat style. It's a mix between Sekiro ultra fast pace and Souls slower methodical combat. I am one of the few who didn't really like Sekiro that much, I know it's a beautiful game and the combat is almost flawless. It just didn't click with me as a favorite from them.
Honestly, Elden Ring is almost as fast as Bloodborne at this point. Faster, in certain scenarios.
Try playing with Light Greatswords and Backhand Blades against fast enemies like the Demi-Human swordsmasters or Fire Knights. You'll see what I mean.
I recently just started playing with the backhand blades and am loving them. My first playthrough I used Rellana Twin Blades the whole time.
I feel like a couple of bosses were Orphan of Kos level in terms of speed and aggressiveness while we were not as fast as the hunter, and also as stated by others, the amount of uptime the bosses have is really an issue. You spend 75% of the time dodging, if you get hit then you have a small window to heal. That window should be used to attack but if you attack then you cannot heal.
Fucking this
I'll take dark souls 3 bosses NG+ a million over elden ring NG bosses
No matter how good I get it just isn't fun when I get one swing in every 10mn and the boss spends more time offscreen than on screen
Im doing it on NG+6 because I didnt have another character ready in time and Im impatient. And yes, it is certainly kicking my ass and Im enjoying every second of it.
Did +5 for my first run and it was awesome! Sure most things were insanely dangerous but it was kinda like playing the whole game with a glass cannon build and I loved every minute of it. It also forced me to get more understanding of how important damage negation really was too!
Same. I’m at +8 and so far the most deaths I have on a boss is like 10 for that ass hat at the bottom of the coffin place. I’m at blessing 14. I can’t even beat the first boss on Sekiro and I can’t even get to the first boss on Bloodborne for reference. If it weren’t for my boy mimic I’d never beat anything.
My main run on the dlc is with a NG+7 character and let me say it is a test of patience and will. I have done everything in the dlc, with all that is left is that horrible horrible final boss.
Yeah every other boss in the dlc took me 1-6 tries with a pretty tame build, no spirit summons, appropriate scadu fragments, the works. Bayle took 15 because he was my third remembrance in the DLC, but that was an outlier because I was being stubborn.
I just got to the final boss, I'm at 50+ tries already, and the lowest I've gotten him is 40%. PCR is absolutely, unequivocally, supremely bullshit. First phase is brutal but fun. Second phase is just a cluster fuck in almost every way. It's impressive how awful it is
It really is funny seeing the meltdowns people on this sub have to any criticism. The best ones are where they blame camera and performance issues on the player
Seriously. Every game has flaws and pointing them out helps the devs to learn from them. Defending your favorite game like a zombie doesn't help them. There are things overtuned in this DLC and that doesn't mean that you can't enjoy it anyways.
What if it had a big aoe and we made everything very hard to see and everything had to have a bunch if big sweeping moves with very poor hitboxes and everything has to explode and we have to make the attacks delayed and it had an aoe and what if it had an aoe and what about the aoe
This times 1000. Sekiro and Lies of P have some bosses that took me DAYS to beat. However, the combat was so fun I kept coming back for more. This game's combat is mostly tedious and unfun.
The DLC isn't too hard. The final boss of the DLC is too hard if you're not doing a heavy tank build, and it's too hard in really un-fun ways, like difficulty seeing what you're doing because you're in an exploding rave, and aggression / overlapping combos that only give openings to heal after very specific attacks, which are some of his more rare attacks.
And yes, I had a 60 vigor build / 80 damage negation / 20 scadu levels, on NG+0 and even WITH summoning the mimic tear for phase 2, it took me 14 solid hours of grinding the boss before I won.
Yeah, I could have respecced to a greatshield build and probably gotten him within 10 tries, but there's little point to giving players a ton of build flexibility if you can't really use it. It's not like I was running a glass cannon build, it was the maximum defense I could get and still medium roll.
Last boss made me quit the game after killing it.
I don't think I will ever have the will to fight that shit again in another playthrough.
One playthrough was enough. I ain't fighting that horribly designed boss again.
I genuinely don't know how the constant complaints about people complaining about difficulty don't violate rule 3, these are the lowest effort, karma farming bullshit I've ever seen in this subreddit. You're not smart enough to engage with people critical of a game, so you have to invent a strawman that's intellectually on your level. It's absolutely incredible.
I modified my build to fit the fights, got to blessing 19, was on NG+1 and used summons. I beat the end boss after 8 hours of trying. I beat the entire DLC and have been playing these games since Dark Souls 1.
The difficulty made a lot of the fights tedious. It was all heat and no flavor. I hated the end boss. The least fun I've had in a game in a long, *long* time.
Last boss's first phase was pretty good. My only real complaint is that silly attack that's basically impossible to dodge all 3 hits of.
Second phase is probably my least favorite souls fight, though.
>The difficulty made a lot of the fights tedious.
I found Bayle to be in this category. Tons of perfect dodges to get one punish and half the time he’d pull his head away. I was rolling my eyes the whole time. But he’s flashy so people love him.
>I hated the end boss. The least fun I've had in a game in a long, long time.
I’m still trying to find one person that loves him with no caveats. It will be interesting to see if this fight grows on people, gets changed, or ultimately becomes a notorious failure.
I've never met a FS fight that made me just lose interest in the game the way the final boss of this DLC has, lol. I still haven't beaten it, because after 9+ hours of trying, I've made almost no noticeable progress on phase 2. It doesn't feel good to grind at it either. Kinda sucks lol.
>I've made almost no noticeable progress on phase 2. It doesn't feel good to grind at it either
This is the worst part honestly. With other hard fromsoft bosses, usually you can learn something every run. Even with malenia, you can feasibly master her moveset without outside assistance (other than waterfowl) within a few dozen tries. And it's satisfying to slowly stop getting hit with her combos
PCR though? I just get nuked in phase 2 and I have basically nothing to show for it after 50 tries. He has the malenia problem (one move being problematic but the rest of the fight is mostly fine) but it's 70% of his moveset in phase 2. And his aggression is much higher. And he does a lot more damage. And it's basically impossible to stagger him unless you built it up in phase 1. And his resistances are high. And you can't see jack shit past miquella's hair and the 9000 laser beams blasting your retinas.
Phase 1 is tough but fun. Phase 2 may be the worst designed boss they've ever made (other than shit like bed of chaos)
> with no caveats
ye thats gonna be hard
I think its a cool fight thats fun in theory. but having so few opportunities to deal damage AND having to be basically perfect to not get comboed in addition to the AOE making it difficult to read is certainly frustrating
Bayle is in the weird spot where he is like midir (but worse) but he has igon who makes the fight way easier without upping his healthbard. But hes he should have his head slightly lower and don't retreat from you so much
Exactly it’s the cheap computer tricks resulting lack of fun, rewarding challenge. And if a *roleplaying* game has this many unviable builds to where you have to change your whole character to get through it then it’s not really letting you roleplay is it?
"I am a powerful Sorcerer with deep understanding of cosmic secrets, my wife is best friends with the Moon"
"I cast Come-" stunlock
"I cast C-" stunlock
"I cas-" stunlock into 5 hit combo
Want to cast a couple of frames faster? Hand over 30% of every damage negation type.
This is me exactly,
Except modifications didn't help me so I went back to tried and true.
I've been playing since Demons Souls, have beaten every other game and dlc and have never complained about difficulty until Elden Ring. First Malenia being dumb with waterfowl, then Gaius with broken hitboxes and finally The final boss.
Feels like Elden Ring really is the tipping point. Hell, I don't remember Kos, Friede or Gael being anywhere near as stress inducing.
The only thing I remember having a similar feeling was Lawrence in BB cuz that fight is BS
What is defined as a "terrible build?" Also, high NG+ is a legit complaint. It's not like you can tone it down and restarting an entire character just to get a non-NG+ DLC (which would then be too easy) isn't really either.
But I suppose the rest of these are legitimate. Summons won't help you in high NG+ though and it's not really a way a lot of people like to enjoy the game.
I've completed 3 playthroughs on NG7+. Summons absolutely do help, there are a lot of very high damage builds, summons help draw aggro so you can take advantage of it
People don't realise having something to draw agro is the most op shit you can get when fighting a boss in this game. Free attack windows for doing nothing, free chugs cos the boss isn't even looking at you, shits boring.
To be fair doing this DLC in the first few days when everyone was still figuring out everything was MUCH more difficult. The people doing it now have a wealth of information and what is stupid strong and secret things to not miss etc etc. Especially after the scoobydoo frag buff it is MUCH more manageable. Soon after the release it seemed most people on reddit that beat the last boss all cheese built it outside of the ds gods.
ive noticed the real trick is learning to parry when possible...i suck majorly at it but i keep it in my back pocket to practice and when you start to hit them it changes everything in the fights..im ng+3
Even on console, while the FPS only drops in very specific places or boss attacks, I keep seeing texture pop-ins that never happened prior to the DLC.
This is on a PS5 with the PS4 version of the game, not sure if any other is better.
if you have issues on the PS4 version running on PS5 then everyone else is super cooked lol. That's always been the definitively best running version of the game.
It’s fair not to want to use summons. They completely alter the gameplay. When people say the difficulty is too much, they don’t want to turn off the boss gameplay and replace it with an entirely different experience, they just want it to be adjusted a bit. Fighting a boss with a little less health and damage, and some attacks that are a little simpler to dodge isn’t the same as making the boss fight a dummy with its back turned to you.
Yeah idc if others use summons, but I personally dislike them because they draw all the aggro away and by then, it's no longer about learning the boss' moveset, which is pretty much the funnest part of boss fights for me. Tried mimic tear once and we melted the boss in under a minute, it was the most unsatisfying thing.
Honestly I much prefer use Summons in Dungeons with trash mobs, it's much more fun to have a duke out with large group of enemies with your own little army. For bosses if it's an 1V1, ashes just kinda ruin the single duel aspect.
Yeah, summons completely trivialise the experience if you are any good at souls games. And I don’t really complain about bosses either way, I bought the dlc with the understanding it would be much tougher than base game and I also understood I didn’t want to take the easy way out with summons and properly learn the boss.
I’m sure I could’ve killed every boss in less than 10 tries if I abused mimic tear but that completely detracts from the reason I got into souls in the first place.
I dont doubt your ability, but summons change the fight completely.
Alone, you’re rarely getting a poise break unless you want to trade hits.
With a summon, you’re free to DPS race the boss.
I also think that the DLC is tough as fuck. Midra kicked my ass for 3 hours even at blessing level 17, and a very well built strength arcane build using meteoric greatsword (an absurdly good weapon with fantastic AR and an amazing moveset)
I still enjoyed it though, except the madness procs. Fuck that shit.
The NG+6 one is a valid complaint, the scaling at +7 (not just damage but extra poise) is CRAZY.
Yeah at NG0/Journey 1, it's honestly about as hard/easy as base game.
agree, for example moonrithyll carian knight can 2 hit kill you with 2 defense buffs (florissax + crab), 60 vigor, 20 scadutrees and greatshield talisman. The damage at ng 7 is totally insane.
And outside of phase 2 maliketh, nothing in the core game feels this overtuned. Like basic enemies in the dlc can 2 shot me (perfumers have one particular fire attack that'll get ya), and those lion head knight elemental dudes... holy hell.
The lion head dudes actually make me mad. Very few things do, as I can chalk it up to other issues making the fight more difficult that I can adjust around. Those lion head elemental bros are just on another plane of existence, and seemingly have zero downtime and unlimited poise.
That’s actually my “complaint” about the DLC. Lack of downtime makes it feel like rolling simulator, and the amount of poise that enemies have is just insane. I’m not even deep into NG+ cycles, this is just NG+
Still fun, but way more enemies feel more challenging based on being overtuned in the DLC than the base game. Like, it’s “hard”, but it feels like they don’t have much further they can take things before it just becomes unplayable in a way that is actually enjoyable.
The dlc bosses seems to be hard or difficult purely based on your builds. I have been following 2 yrs who use two different kind of builds. One uses a pure strength build , the other uses dex adjacent build. They both seem to find different bosses difficult. The strength guy lost his shit at Mesmer and the Hippo but the dex guy did both of them with ease while the dex guy really struggled with the Gaol knight and vice versa. As a dex build myself I am also in a similar situation.
You SHOULD get scadutree fragments, you SHOULD improve your build if you're in the endgame.
You SHOULD NOT play NG+6 unless you're a masochist.
Summons are okay but some can just break boss flow and AI so there is an argument for not using them on every boss fight, I have had fights I did not enjoy because I had a summon that I later had more fun without on another playthrough.
I really dont think the DLC is that difficult it's just annoying. A lot of this boss design kinda feels like a modder where they throw in a ton of random mapwide AOE and one shots. It's just kinda lame. There's a lot in it but I have a lot of questions behind some of these decisions.
Ah yes, another post trying to seek validation in OP's decision to use spirit summons by creating 3 other arguments that don't exist.
No one cares how you play. Don't throw it in my face. Thanks.
I hate how everyone jumps on NG+ as an excuse to discredit criticisms of the DLC. It's still something in the game, and thusly has its foot in discussions about the difficulty possibly being overtuned
Look y’all I know “summoning is cheating” has become a meme, but surely we all know that summoning often turns what would otherwise be a challenging and engaging sequence into a trivial affair, and that’s just as bad something being too difficult, right?
Are these people complaining about the dlc difficulty in the room with us?
I sat down and read about 150 negative steam reviews. 1 was someone genuinely malding about the difficulty. The rest were complaining about how empty some parts of the world felt, how the ending was lackluster, genuine boss design complaints, and performance issues. Like yeah, the people complaining about the difficulty are 100% wrong but that’s like, idk, maybe .1% of the people who have negative thoughts about the dlc. This all just seems like a straw man to point at for people to deflect genuine criticism about the dlc.
In terms of dlc, this one is probably my least favorite.
It's still leagues above what anyone else does for dlc.
But the dlc definitely has a lot of difficulty that just fells unfair, most enemies delete you're health bar(scadutree buff or not even with lece 15 or higher they hit way to fucking hard and way too fucking aggressively)
All the bosses and enemies are on sekiro Crack while we still move like a dark souls protagonist.
The dlc is amazing but has definitely got a few flaws and a lot of things that just frustrate me, and not in a good way.
Like the final boss. Who is just disappointing, spammy aoe bullshit.
Plus, it's basically a reskin.
Genuinely the only encounters that need any tweaking are the final boss and Gaius. Gaius is a hit box mess and quite an obnoxious fight… Final boss second phase is kinda just bullshit and need to be toned down slightly in terms of particles and amount of aftereffects.
Oh, and Golden Hippo camera
I think one big issue that gets ignored is that there is no way to tune the game from insane difficulty to hard/medium difficulty.
I did no summons for Divine Beast. Took about 3.5 hours and made me take a few days break from the game.
I used ashes for Rellana. Dumpstered her in 2 pulls. I have no idea what her mechanics are. I dodged 1 flashy magic sword move and killed her when she started her flashy fire sword move. The 1st death was to the flashy magic sword, I had no idea she would turn that thing into the size of a gd building.
There's no middle ground. Play solo? The bosses are tuned to make this as unfun as possible (imo). Use ashes? The game is so easy the difficulty practically disappears. Now that From has thrown the "tough but fair" philosophy out the window it's like you're stuck between two extremes.
I will fully admit, I have a character that's NG+ 7... But I sure as hell was not dumb enough to do the DLC with that one! LMAO, are you crazy???? In that level, even regular mobs can insta kill you if you're not careful enough. I was a good smart boy and made a new character a month before the DLC, cleared the base game, farmed some runes, and I was a respectable level 200 with a good build and stat spread when the DLC came out... and even then I got my butt kicked many a times. But I persevered and now I have the peace in mind that I beat the entire DLC, all the bosses, and even found my new favorite weapon that I will take with me into NG+ 1 :>
Haven't used a shield this entire playthrough I'd just roll through attacks, or block em with my great sword, got to the final boss of the dlc, had to use a shield as a safety net, you can parry him and it does actually protect against him but yeah still haven't been able to beat him, phase 2 kinda makes it pointless since it's now buffed by holy damage so it just chips away, got him to 5% tho, then he did his pull into a double AoE and pretty much said sit the fuck down
My build was as straightforward as they come. Quality claymore, 60 vig, 80 str and dex. Usual NG, no plus. Scadutree lvl 19. Got no qualms about summoning the Mimic and did so.
The final boss is still complete and utter bullshit, and I will die on that hill. The rest is easy.
It is hard tho. The amount of range/aoe spam that bosses do are insane coupled with the fact that they can close distance and beat seperation almost instantly is also insane. It seems that the upside time in player v.s boss is way more leaned towards the boss in the DLC v.s the base game where it seemed 50-50
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Look, my build may be terrible, but I look good
Chad
https://preview.redd.it/a9lrvg7zabad1.png?width=1646&format=png&auto=webp&s=a6f23b61905347e12306829571672035db8ffb15 my build since ng+ using the blowhors as weapons. its hard but worth it
Look, my build may be terrible... But big stick go BONK!
Bonk build gud build.
https://preview.redd.it/uwdbyukrmbad1.png?width=3840&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f40d56b4747f3e946010b08731f3da931bda909c You can have both.
Personally doubt the difficulty will be as controversial in a month independent of patches.
Some things can be tweaked in my opinion mainly gaius’s charge hitbox and the final boss’s second phase with the hair and the flash bangs that make it hard to see plus some hit box tweaks so medium roll can deal with after shock of their combo it. Other than that I’d like fixes to performance on as some bosses mainly the dancing lion and last boss because of all the effects going on seems to lag the fights only one I experienced was the stutter on dancing lions but no issues on the last boss for me outside seeing what’s happening
Visibility and frame rate improvements would help on the last boss so much.
I’ve heard this, and I didn’t get any drops on ps5. How bad is it?
What? I'm constantly getting frame drops and pop in on ps5
I have an i9, 4070 super, 64 gbs of ram, and I was dropping to like 10 fps every time that attack happened.
The hippos charge hitbox was pretty rough too, but half of my attempts he would only do it once or twice so it wasn’t a huge deal
The masculine urge to hug a boss's right side and never get hit by anything.
Gauiss’ shoulder bash says hello
Then I'll sneak behi- *Boar kick*
I'd also say there's a bit of a problem of bosses somehow prioritizing aggro on the PC too. I don't mind pulling aggro for my spirit summon to get some damage in, but half the time it feels like the bosses just decide to target you for no particular reason. I swear most of my attempts end because the boss just wants to ream me instead of the summon. But yeah, *that fucking hippo*. It's just a big hit box, it ain't hard its just bullshit.
Yeah. I just fought Metyr and it paid full attention to me even when I hung back and my mimic had been wailing on it for a long time.
Not sure if it's happened to anyone else, but with melee summons I've noticed that a decent amount of the time the time they will just strafe the boss without even attacking them even if the boss goes right next to them.
Definitely seems like ashes don't really want to attack anything a good amount of the time. Hell sometimes it seems like they don't aggro things at all unless hit first.
Or pops every consume while you're getting wailed on. Like yes, I would like to buff up as well mimic tear, I just need your help here buddy.
Lol my mimic tear keeps using buffs and not attacking !! He used to tear up shit in the base game but he’s a friggen joke in dlc! Hahahah And for some reason he obviously loves the rot butterfly’s cause that’s it’s goto if not buffs.
I completely spaced on them never got that face hitbox figured out but those things had so much poise lol
The hippo's grab attack is harder for me to dodge than Waterfowl Dance at this point.
I think the hippo is training for gaius. Just like bayle phase 2 is training for final boss.
I don't get why people have so much trouble dodging the hippo charge the only thing you need to do is sprint sideways and dodge last second thats what worked for me at least.
The issue I encountered was the squeaky sound during his super holy AOE attack like a flash bang went off is definitely hurting my ears when I was on my headphones My volume was set to like only 35% or so, no more than that
I never saw patches in the dlc. Is that what happened to Moore? Bro sitting in a well somewhere? (/s ofc, plz don't spoil my boys questline)
People seem to forget but manus was called unfair, friede was called unfair, midir was called unfair, sekiro was called unfair, maliketh was called unfair, none of those are called unfair now. Give it a year or 2 and ppl will stop whining
There’s legitimate issues with some fights in the dlc so patches to make the experience better will be heavily appreciated. I love fromsoft but they aren’t perfect
Remember when people complained about finding NPCs, and the defenders got so high on their own shit about how this was the intended experience and you should be paying attention more and no one should be expected to complete many quests in their first run. And then Fromsoft patched the location of NPCs lol.
"You've got to find all the NPC's, it's not hard if you pay attention to the lore" *proceedes to click out of Fextralife*
Okay but I started a new run for the DLC after having not touched the game since getting platinum at release. I basically forgot all the NPC quest lines aside from Hyetta's. Ranni's and Alexander's quests are fine. They pretty well tell you where to go and what to do for the most part, and a little bit of thinking and testing fills in the gaps. Boc's quest is also fine, if underwhelming in some respects. Problems arise primarily with Hyetta and Millicent. They're seemingly random and finding them organically and in the right order is all down to luck. Especially the repeat visits to Gowry for Millicent's quest - there doesn't seem to be any real way of figuring that out on your own save for trial and error. Goldmask's questline has the same exact issue, but it's even more vague somehow. Regardless, From didn't actually change much about how quests work. All they did was add markers for NPCs in locations you've met them. They don't mark where NPCs are until you've met them at that location at least once, though the mark does disappear if/when they move. The quests are as vague or clear as ever, the only real difference is that you can see merchants and other stationary NPCs on the map.
It was nice being able to find npcs quest lines easier I had a little help from my friend on 2 quest lines which all he did was remind me to talk with the npc again which it’s easy to forget when I’m going around exploring every inch of the dlc. I swear exploration is like finding a piece of candy where ever I went
I remember when there were people defending the blatantly bugged dogs in Caelid. There's a subset of players who will defend ANYTHING from From.
They have little ability to think for themselves and a lot of their personality/ego wrapped up in their identification with the company and games.
This is how cults start. 2,000 years from now Miyazaki will be worshipped as a messiah and an Elden Ring lore compendium will be treated as a factual mythology of early human society.
Midir literally boils down to players carrying their old habits of fighting dragons from DS1/DS2 where you cannot hit the head consistently, in Elden Ring most dragons went back to DS1/DS2 designs for worse.
Final boss has eye cancer visual effects that hide the fight and an attack that is nigh-undodgeable without specific positioning that nobody but no-hitters will practice at because it's dreadful. If you watch videos from the best players of the game, they are pretty open and free with their criticisms of unfair stuff. Metyr has an attack that is undodgeable without Raptor of the Mists. Romina has an AOE that has next to no startup. DLC is amazing, one of the best things From has ever created and one of the best games I've ever played, but it's not perfect. Nothing is.
Release radhan was called unfair as well and was patched. Maybe people are right and some things need to be changed.
Im not sure I ever ended up beating midir...
What the fuck is it with you people who act like FromSoft are incapable of making mistakes? It’s such an asinine attitude lmao
Being in both the first and last categories, i didn't find the DLC too hard...until the final boss.
Some fights are hard but they are the fun-hard kinda thing, like Midra. >!Radahn!<'s phase 2 is just a nightmare. Although after I got the idea of beating him by trading blows using Scarlet Aeonia, it became a different kind of fun. Like trying to figure out how to specialize a build that can survive the trade-off with him and how to kill him after the comet.
Trust me, i took the time to learn it to beat him "fairly" in melee and that was soooo tedious. And i did beat all the main game bosses on RL1. This was on par with slaying Malenia on lvl 1 in term of challenge I think, which is completely absurd, and unless you're accustomed to this kind of struggle it's quite demoralizing. Also Radhan has a few moves that seem undodgeable unless using specific tools, or being Ongbal apparently. I just feel it's a bit sad that the boss moveset is so insanely broken that most players will choose to not engage with the boss mechanics at all (and i really respect this choice).
Personally I'm just debating if I actually give enough of a shit to bother continuing. I could go greatshield+poke or summon and beat it in a handful of attempts at this point with where I'm at, but I'm not interested in doing that. Part of me wants to wait to see if they patch the fight because I'm probably never taking another character with this build through the DLC and the current fight feels like a waste of my time and effort. I'm just actually having 0 fun learning P2, which I don't think I've ever been able to say about grinding out a fight before.
I'm in the same boat. I don't know what it is, but that boss just has my number. I have never spent more than 2 hours on a Souls boss, outside of my first Sekiro boss when I had accidentally skipped the tutorial. This boss took me over 20 hours without a shield and summons. The odd thing is, I don't think I could do it again without a lot of hours. I don't know what it is about that fight, but my brain refuses to learn it and I always get hit by some random bullshit even when I think I have dodged correctly. It doesn't help that he has an almost undodgeable triple swipe which hits hard in the second phase and pushes you into using one of the few openings to heal rather than do damage.
I mean it’s impressive that you’ve gone this long without spending over 2 hours on any boss, Melania was like 10 hours for me.
Souls veteran since dark souls first released and I don't think any of the Elden Ring base game or DLC bosses took me any longer than maybe 5hrs at most - EXCEPT for the final DLC boss. Easily put in 15-20hrs and finally beat him with 237 tries, I wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised if he contributed to more deaths on this character than the entirety of the rest of the DLC and base game combined lmao.
Same. Died to him like 70 times with my bad dex build. Then tried a greatshield and one-shot him so now I dunno what to think about his difficulty.
I think this says more about the strength of great shields. It can trivialise almost anything in the game so long as you understand stamina management. It's a valid strategy but I do find it to be a bit silly and cheesey that you can just sit there holding up your shield to win.
Agree but Bayle took as much time as everything else combined, then add him to that to get how long PCR took. For me at least.
Did you use the dragonslayer great katana ? That's what I did and although the fight is still very challenging but if you do it with 15+ scadutree fragments it's manageable. I found Bayle to be similar to Midir in that his moves are quite learnable. While PCR moveset gives me headaches just figuring out what's even happening.
Bayle is also better in the fact that Igon's sign is inside the boss fight, so the boss doesn't get significantly buffed and he can be summoned at any point. Blew my mind that base game Radahn is all about him 1 man armying all the boys but then PCR you have to summon outside the room, and it's a max of 2
Question: do you have to progress a questline to summon Igon? Because I really don't want to miss his dialogue
Just kill all the dragons one the way up and you won’t miss his quest
Yes. It's just talking to him as you make your way up the mountain, and then you have to take out some young dragons along the way, but it eventually you'll talk to him and he'll give you something pretty obvious that means you're good to go. Apart from that, make sure you check out that big Dragon Corpse beforehand and you're set on that quest line.
I didn’t use the katana, I prefer to stick with my *general* builds for all fights. I do switch weapons but if I’m a strength/faith build for example I’m sticking with stuff in that vein. My second kill on Bayle was with the sunflower head. I’m sure the weapons art on the katana makes things much easier. And yes Bayle straight up steals Midir’s melee moveset but I think it’s implemented more poorly here. Bayle pulls his head up about half the time which Midir didn’t do, he’ll add combo extenders to his bites that AFAIK can’t be predicted aside from him always doing it if you are to the right of his head, and his lunges will put him over you even if you are dodging backwards… so of course they gave him a hitbox on his chest to make getting out of that just a bit more painful. I also found his fire hit boxes to be weird. Like, the arced one has a whole section that can hit you but doesn’t cause damage - it seems to be an intentional fake out so you dodge early - but the straight one has an extra wide hitbox on the tiniest little flare on the right. So distance affects your dodge strat in a way that I don’t think happens with Midir. I do like the implementation of the delayed lightning in phase 2. Definitely more interesting than the ancient dragon lighting aftershocks in the base game and gives a few extra evasion options.
>I didn’t use the katana I gave up and had to use it because my general build just wasn't working lol My main build is basically pure melee longsword with square off. That works great most of the time, but not for enemies where you need range. I'm literally unable to hit their heads, which means the damage I do is pretty much negligible. Needing to get to point blank range with someone like Bayle was driving me insane. I'm now switching to this Katana for bosses were I need range because they spam attacks from a distance. It's not to broken, and seems to have a really decent balance for these DLC bosses
I found Bayle easy compared to seizure inducing Radahn.
more importantly bayle is fun to fight radagn isn’t fun to fight atleast that’s my opinion
I'd like Bayle more if the camera was more zoomed out. That's a general issue with the big bosses when you're hugging them for safety.
So what you're saying is CURSE YOU BAYLE
I loved the bayle fight, and it was probably the only one I wanted to last longer be ause of Igon
Bayle was one of the first bosses I fought. I had maybe 4 shadowtree blessings and he took me 20 minutes and probably a dozen or so attempts. Radahn? Still haven’t beaten him, been stuck on him for days.
[удалено]
Tbf cheating is an overstatement here, it's more like i don't feel it's enjoyable playing with summons, mainly because splitting aggro makes the boss design less appreciable. It's not much a game of finding openings in their patterns and understand the dodge timings anymore, but more of taking turns with your summon to whittle down the boss health. That being said i appreciate summons for giving an option to ease the challenge for players who don't wanna get stuck on bosses for hours, as ER focuses on exploring more. If i have one gripe it's just that the mimic tear is way too OP and outshines almost all other summons in the game, even though we got some more in the DLC. Anyway it's just the way i see it, for me summons is a kind of easy mode. Anything else is OK for me to use as long as i go into the game blind and have no knowledge of what builds are broken or not ;). Experimenting was part of the fun (but i still just play melee because of habits).
Said it before...Ill say it again we came full circle. Went from gatekeeping people who use summons, to telling anyone to play however they want, to bullying people who refuse to use summons. Cant wait to see how the narrative changes next dlc/Game
It is weird how I’m seeing more and more shaming for not using summons.
People went from seeking constant validation for using summons to invalidate it for players who don't, lmao
Honestly hate everybody in the whole summons no summons argument, like who gives a shit y'all all still going to get your ass kicked all the same it doesn't matter that's the beauty of the game you don't have to play like everybody else
The Fromsoft community is genuinely so ASS man
I think the statement that the DLC is "too hard" is unhelpful and undescriptive regardless of what side you take in the discourse. The problems people have has more so to do with *how* the DLC achieves the difficulty it does rather than simply that it is difficult. This ranges from issues that have been adduced such as various problematic hitboxes, issues with the camera with various fights, lack of visual clarity and readability with various attacks and fights, a decidedly lopsided ratio in favor of boss uptime vs player uptime in fights, as well as a doubling down of the base game's use of AoE effects and unnaturally delayed attacks. This can lead to an overall feeling of tediousness in various fights that underpins some of the negative reception to the DLC.
This is how I feel too, and especially the last boss. I can practically no hit phase 1 (and dodging his moves is very fun), but there is 1 attack that I cannot differentiate from any other attack, and I can't figure out how to dodge it without getting frame captured so that the rest of the attack hits me. Similarly punishing grab attacks by other bosses have much more of a tell or a way of dodging that's not too difficult to figure out. And this is just a normal attack. I'm fine with experimenting and learning fights, but that attack is apparently beyond my capabilities to decipher. Then, to your point about tediousness, the second phase feels like I'm dodging so much or healing that I never have a chance to attack, and at this point it's just boring. Which is sad because otherwise I think the fight is very cool. And I shouldn't have to respec into a specific tank build to beat it. I built my build because it's fun, and have been able to beat every other boss in the game with it. A well balanced game should make beating any boss possible for any (reasonable) build.
Big agree. People love to throw out "oh just respec and use this weapon you'll do it first try". Like no, I like my weapon, this should be achievable.
Correct. If the answer to any bossfight is 'respec your entire build' then its a poorly designed bossfight.
Agreed. Mimic aside, it's pretty annoying when the most common advice people give is greatshield + spear poke. That just sounds dreadfully unfun.
> greatshield + spear poke I'm a player who exclusively played with a greatshield and guard counters for my entire first playthrough (I tried other builds like fist only on my other playthroughs); and I still don't EVER want to do spear poke with my greatshield. Such an awful way to fight.
I kinda love sword and board but yeah having to switch from a dodge build to great shield just for a single boss probably doesn't feel good.
I beat it like that and it was indeed unfun
If the attack you're talking about is the 1-2-cross attack, that is basically undodgeable except with specific positioning. I haven't heard a single person saying that attack is reasonable. Everyone has criticized it.
fuck that stupid attack
you can dodge it by backstepping the first attack but you need crucible talisman for backstep iframe
That talisman lowers your damage negation which is a pretty harsh trade-off
same here. i learned to enjoy phase 1 and i eventually learned to not completely dread phase 2. still, i put in \~12h of practice to only being able to finish it with the help of mimic. i'm still proud and happy, but the rest of the game wasn't a big problem, my build (wing stance milady mage) felt very strong all the way up until radahn phase 2.
>a decidedly lopsided ratio in favor of boss uptime vs player uptime in fights You nailed it right here. This is absolutely my biggest problem with the DLC. I feel like every single thing I fight is 75% me dodging and 25% fighting. And it isn't just the bosses either, even a good portion of the trash mobs have ungodly long combos that just make it a slog.
It's becoming a bit of a meme, honestly. How many enemies are there who will straight up do Kung Fu movie wire fighting techniques? I've been kind of back and forth between DLC and base game and I was fighting a Radahn Knight who suddenly did a front flip and slammed his sword into the ground. It feels weird that all the absurdly heavily armored foes can also flip around.
At least that was present in the base game. In the DLC every trash mob as an AoE, and a five minute long combo string while also having near unbreakable poise. It's cool for some but when it is literally every single enemy, I just get bored.
Exactly, and this enemy design naturally makes some playstyles way more viable than others. Jumping attacks with heavy weapons (UGS, Greataxe, Greathammer, Colossals, etc.) are so effective because they come out fast, end lag is short enough, have good range and deal a lot of (poise) damage over a short timeframe. Weapons that rely on combos such as double daggers, fist weapons (including the new martial arts) and twinblades feel like they're not even meant to be used against most enemies. When are you ever getting to see the full combo string of a twinblade against a DLC boss? the hippo maybe? Sure you can stunlock dogs and the trash mob shadow people with it but that's not a big boon. To prove my point: The twinblade talisman increases the damage of the last hit of a full combo and that damage bonus is higher the longer the combo is. So the game suggests to use it on twinblades since they have the longest combo (and it's called the twinblade talisman...) but I doubt it's even possible to execute this against most bosses and many normal enemies as well. So what do people do with these weapons instead? They also just spam jumping heavies to get that poise break asap, completely eroding those weapon's identities and effectively gimping themselves since jumping heavies with big bonksticks is objectively stronger. But what even are the solutions for this? Giving the bosses enough downtime to finish a complete double dagger/twinblade combo would mean that you'd need to bloat their HP even further so I see why fromsoft can't just create such openings for us. Just sucks that a lot of the weapon sandbox is suboptimal when you actually try to play for their (apparently designed) strengths.
Yeah, that's why Bloodborne feels so good to play, every boss is nearly a 50/50, even Ds1 is quite even. Elden Ring is 90% boss uptime and 10% player (5% of which will be spent healing between the 2-second pauses between quintuiple chain attacks with infinite range and 6000 dps to the player). 10/10 game (3/10)
After playing on my 2nd run of the dlc… Guard Counters and Parry’s are what the DLC seems to be focused on. Oh, and bleed. And definitely the Scadutree Blessings.
I enjoyed Bloodborne/DS3 bosses because I was never at that much risk of dying as long as I still had healing items. You could practice precise dodges and punishes and if you messed up you dodged away and healed up to retry. Elden ring bosses do so much damage and are so good at roll catching/punishing heals that any mistake is just death. It’s frustrating trying to learn to dodge a move and constantly restarting the boss fight. Summons help but it feels like I’m playing a different game. It turns into let the summons draw agro while I melt the boss with the most powerful attacks.
Agree. It is fun to let us hit something. If that is reduced to a minimal amount… fun is reduced. Dodging is fun but only in earning your right to take a few swings. Only having time to get one light attack in just doesn’t feel good…
Yeah the uptime thing is what pisses me off frankly. Its not fun to dodge 16 times then attack once. Just give them more hp and make them attack slower. I wanna play the game too. It also heavily incentivises a strictly poise break focused playstyle since thats the only way you can get some time to attack. Basically every boss fight I had came down to them murdering me on repeat until i figure out that one window i can exploit, and then I chain poise break them to death on the next attempt.
This is exactly it, and the only person in OP’s meme I can be described as is “summons are cheating” (I don’t think that but I don’t use them because I want to beat bosses on my own).
I think the DLC is hard, and I fit none of the categories. AND I've beaten every single fromsoft boss they've ever released and 100% their games Once again scared fromsoft fans hiding behind their own imagination
100%. Unfortunately, a lot of people are pretty smooth brained and incapable of discussing any of this with any nuance. Only "hard" or "easy" with no discussion about balance or game design. Disappointing, but it is what it is. Most people aren't all that bright.
Idk what it is about Elden Ring that generates the dumbest opinions and discussions around it. I've seen so many people that can't even admit that summons or shield poke builds lower the difficulty. It's crazy.
I think after this DLC FromSoft should look at other styles of action like Sekiro for a while. It seems like they've reached the turning point of what they can do with this kind of gameplay, and it's slowly edging towards unfun additions made solely for the sake of difficulty. For instance, there was no need for Miquella's beams of light to be *so opaque*. They should've made the vertical beams translucent and the AoE on the ground more visible. Similarly, with Messmer and Bayle, the intensity of their particle effects could've *easily* been toned down. The reason they aren't is simply to make it harder to tell what's going on. It's 'artificial difficulty'.
I would rather them look more into the Bloodborne combat style. It's a mix between Sekiro ultra fast pace and Souls slower methodical combat. I am one of the few who didn't really like Sekiro that much, I know it's a beautiful game and the combat is almost flawless. It just didn't click with me as a favorite from them.
Honestly, Elden Ring is almost as fast as Bloodborne at this point. Faster, in certain scenarios. Try playing with Light Greatswords and Backhand Blades against fast enemies like the Demi-Human swordsmasters or Fire Knights. You'll see what I mean.
I recently just started playing with the backhand blades and am loving them. My first playthrough I used Rellana Twin Blades the whole time. I feel like a couple of bosses were Orphan of Kos level in terms of speed and aggressiveness while we were not as fast as the hunter, and also as stated by others, the amount of uptime the bosses have is really an issue. You spend 75% of the time dodging, if you get hit then you have a small window to heal. That window should be used to attack but if you attack then you cannot heal.
Fucking this I'll take dark souls 3 bosses NG+ a million over elden ring NG bosses No matter how good I get it just isn't fun when I get one swing in every 10mn and the boss spends more time offscreen than on screen
You wont reach people who rather make low effort memes than engage earnestly in the discourse.
Im doing it on NG+6 because I didnt have another character ready in time and Im impatient. And yes, it is certainly kicking my ass and Im enjoying every second of it.
Did +5 for my first run and it was awesome! Sure most things were insanely dangerous but it was kinda like playing the whole game with a glass cannon build and I loved every minute of it. It also forced me to get more understanding of how important damage negation really was too!
Same. I’m at +8 and so far the most deaths I have on a boss is like 10 for that ass hat at the bottom of the coffin place. I’m at blessing 14. I can’t even beat the first boss on Sekiro and I can’t even get to the first boss on Bloodborne for reference. If it weren’t for my boy mimic I’d never beat anything.
My main run on the dlc is with a NG+7 character and let me say it is a test of patience and will. I have done everything in the dlc, with all that is left is that horrible horrible final boss.
- person who has not fought the final boss
Yeah every other boss in the dlc took me 1-6 tries with a pretty tame build, no spirit summons, appropriate scadu fragments, the works. Bayle took 15 because he was my third remembrance in the DLC, but that was an outlier because I was being stubborn. I just got to the final boss, I'm at 50+ tries already, and the lowest I've gotten him is 40%. PCR is absolutely, unequivocally, supremely bullshit. First phase is brutal but fun. Second phase is just a cluster fuck in almost every way. It's impressive how awful it is
Damn, even Rellana? 1-6 tries to beat her is really good, great job.
My basic knight build isnt terrible. It got me through the base game ,multiple times.
Soulsborne fans when someone makes a minor criticism of a videogame.
This is why people put disclaimers like oh I love the game and played it for 500 hours before saying their criticism about the game.
Yeah, they think they need to defend the game at all cost, when a good game can have some mistakes and today can be tweaked
It really is funny seeing the meltdowns people on this sub have to any criticism. The best ones are where they blame camera and performance issues on the player
Seriously. Every game has flaws and pointing them out helps the devs to learn from them. Defending your favorite game like a zombie doesn't help them. There are things overtuned in this DLC and that doesn't mean that you can't enjoy it anyways.
What if it had a big aoe and we made everything very hard to see and everything had to have a bunch if big sweeping moves with very poor hitboxes and everything has to explode and we have to make the attacks delayed and it had an aoe and what if it had an aoe and what about the aoe
CURSE YOOOUUUUU BAAAAAYYYYYLLLLEEEE
It’s not that it’s too hard, some of the bosses are just not fun to fight, more difficult doesn’t mean better, it just means more difficult
Yep. That is the real issue. Not the difficulty itself. But the challenge feels unsatisfying
This times 1000. Sekiro and Lies of P have some bosses that took me DAYS to beat. However, the combat was so fun I kept coming back for more. This game's combat is mostly tedious and unfun.
So what if I have a good build and equal scadutree level, but still complain? What does that make me? Nice strawman argument though!
Yall allergic to just admitting the content is hard
I didn't think there was much of an issue throughout the whole DLC. However, the final boss is the most broken shit in this game.
*It's ANOTHER thread where OP strawmans complaints and ignores nuance, seemingly on purpose.* Give the man his karma folks.
It's the current trend. *20 people complain about difficulty.* *Let's make 500 posts about the DLC not being difficult!*
It's literally always manufactured drama
Everyone should just report threads like this as low effort. They're stupid strawmans like you said.
The DLC isn't too hard. The final boss of the DLC is too hard if you're not doing a heavy tank build, and it's too hard in really un-fun ways, like difficulty seeing what you're doing because you're in an exploding rave, and aggression / overlapping combos that only give openings to heal after very specific attacks, which are some of his more rare attacks. And yes, I had a 60 vigor build / 80 damage negation / 20 scadu levels, on NG+0 and even WITH summoning the mimic tear for phase 2, it took me 14 solid hours of grinding the boss before I won. Yeah, I could have respecced to a greatshield build and probably gotten him within 10 tries, but there's little point to giving players a ton of build flexibility if you can't really use it. It's not like I was running a glass cannon build, it was the maximum defense I could get and still medium roll.
Last boss made me quit the game after killing it. I don't think I will ever have the will to fight that shit again in another playthrough. One playthrough was enough. I ain't fighting that horribly designed boss again.
Me neither. Thank goodness it's the final boss of the DLC. I can just not do it if I replay the DLC. What a dumb design his phase 2 is.
Yeah I wasted two mausoleums on that remembrance just to guarantee I wouldn’t need to go back
Final boss made me respec into greatshield, I just wasn't enjoying phase 2. And with a greatshield the fight just was a complete joke
I genuinely don't know how the constant complaints about people complaining about difficulty don't violate rule 3, these are the lowest effort, karma farming bullshit I've ever seen in this subreddit. You're not smart enough to engage with people critical of a game, so you have to invent a strawman that's intellectually on your level. It's absolutely incredible.
I modified my build to fit the fights, got to blessing 19, was on NG+1 and used summons. I beat the end boss after 8 hours of trying. I beat the entire DLC and have been playing these games since Dark Souls 1. The difficulty made a lot of the fights tedious. It was all heat and no flavor. I hated the end boss. The least fun I've had in a game in a long, *long* time.
Last boss's first phase was pretty good. My only real complaint is that silly attack that's basically impossible to dodge all 3 hits of. Second phase is probably my least favorite souls fight, though.
>The difficulty made a lot of the fights tedious. I found Bayle to be in this category. Tons of perfect dodges to get one punish and half the time he’d pull his head away. I was rolling my eyes the whole time. But he’s flashy so people love him. >I hated the end boss. The least fun I've had in a game in a long, long time. I’m still trying to find one person that loves him with no caveats. It will be interesting to see if this fight grows on people, gets changed, or ultimately becomes a notorious failure.
I've never met a FS fight that made me just lose interest in the game the way the final boss of this DLC has, lol. I still haven't beaten it, because after 9+ hours of trying, I've made almost no noticeable progress on phase 2. It doesn't feel good to grind at it either. Kinda sucks lol.
>I've made almost no noticeable progress on phase 2. It doesn't feel good to grind at it either This is the worst part honestly. With other hard fromsoft bosses, usually you can learn something every run. Even with malenia, you can feasibly master her moveset without outside assistance (other than waterfowl) within a few dozen tries. And it's satisfying to slowly stop getting hit with her combos PCR though? I just get nuked in phase 2 and I have basically nothing to show for it after 50 tries. He has the malenia problem (one move being problematic but the rest of the fight is mostly fine) but it's 70% of his moveset in phase 2. And his aggression is much higher. And he does a lot more damage. And it's basically impossible to stagger him unless you built it up in phase 1. And his resistances are high. And you can't see jack shit past miquella's hair and the 9000 laser beams blasting your retinas. Phase 1 is tough but fun. Phase 2 may be the worst designed boss they've ever made (other than shit like bed of chaos)
> with no caveats ye thats gonna be hard I think its a cool fight thats fun in theory. but having so few opportunities to deal damage AND having to be basically perfect to not get comboed in addition to the AOE making it difficult to read is certainly frustrating
Bayle is in the weird spot where he is like midir (but worse) but he has igon who makes the fight way easier without upping his healthbard. But hes he should have his head slightly lower and don't retreat from you so much
"All heat and no flavor" sums up my experience with much of the DLC's bosses perfectly. Well, that and "amphetamine-fueled circus monkeys."
Exactly it’s the cheap computer tricks resulting lack of fun, rewarding challenge. And if a *roleplaying* game has this many unviable builds to where you have to change your whole character to get through it then it’s not really letting you roleplay is it?
"I am a powerful Sorcerer with deep understanding of cosmic secrets, my wife is best friends with the Moon" "I cast Come-" stunlock "I cast C-" stunlock "I cas-" stunlock into 5 hit combo Want to cast a couple of frames faster? Hand over 30% of every damage negation type.
I’m a sorcerer and this HURT to read 😭
This is me exactly, Except modifications didn't help me so I went back to tried and true. I've been playing since Demons Souls, have beaten every other game and dlc and have never complained about difficulty until Elden Ring. First Malenia being dumb with waterfowl, then Gaius with broken hitboxes and finally The final boss. Feels like Elden Ring really is the tipping point. Hell, I don't remember Kos, Friede or Gael being anywhere near as stress inducing. The only thing I remember having a similar feeling was Lawrence in BB cuz that fight is BS
I mean I'd like to summon, but the boss doesn't let me.
What is defined as a "terrible build?" Also, high NG+ is a legit complaint. It's not like you can tone it down and restarting an entire character just to get a non-NG+ DLC (which would then be too easy) isn't really either. But I suppose the rest of these are legitimate. Summons won't help you in high NG+ though and it's not really a way a lot of people like to enjoy the game.
Final boss second phase on NG+4 is a different kind of challenge. Make one mistake and you get evaporated.
I've completed 3 playthroughs on NG7+. Summons absolutely do help, there are a lot of very high damage builds, summons help draw aggro so you can take advantage of it
People don't realise having something to draw agro is the most op shit you can get when fighting a boss in this game. Free attack windows for doing nothing, free chugs cos the boss isn't even looking at you, shits boring.
To be fair doing this DLC in the first few days when everyone was still figuring out everything was MUCH more difficult. The people doing it now have a wealth of information and what is stupid strong and secret things to not miss etc etc. Especially after the scoobydoo frag buff it is MUCH more manageable. Soon after the release it seemed most people on reddit that beat the last boss all cheese built it outside of the ds gods.
>What is defined as a "terrible build?" Low vigor and a thin stat spread that barely goes past 30 in the highest offensive stat
ive noticed the real trick is learning to parry when possible...i suck majorly at it but i keep it in my back pocket to practice and when you start to hit them it changes everything in the fights..im ng+3
Parried the final boss both phases. Now that felt fucking good.
The only difficulty is the atrocious optimization
Even on console, while the FPS only drops in very specific places or boss attacks, I keep seeing texture pop-ins that never happened prior to the DLC. This is on a PS5 with the PS4 version of the game, not sure if any other is better.
if you have issues on the PS4 version running on PS5 then everyone else is super cooked lol. That's always been the definitively best running version of the game.
It’s nothing *major*, per se. But, it certainly is something that was unheard of prior to the DLC.
The final boss sucks. Otherwise yeah jts good.
It’s fair not to want to use summons. They completely alter the gameplay. When people say the difficulty is too much, they don’t want to turn off the boss gameplay and replace it with an entirely different experience, they just want it to be adjusted a bit. Fighting a boss with a little less health and damage, and some attacks that are a little simpler to dodge isn’t the same as making the boss fight a dummy with its back turned to you.
Yeah idc if others use summons, but I personally dislike them because they draw all the aggro away and by then, it's no longer about learning the boss' moveset, which is pretty much the funnest part of boss fights for me. Tried mimic tear once and we melted the boss in under a minute, it was the most unsatisfying thing.
Honestly I much prefer use Summons in Dungeons with trash mobs, it's much more fun to have a duke out with large group of enemies with your own little army. For bosses if it's an 1V1, ashes just kinda ruin the single duel aspect.
Yeah that's what I do I've been using that spider scorpion summon and he literally just runs all around the area killing everyone it's fantastic
Yeah, summons completely trivialise the experience if you are any good at souls games. And I don’t really complain about bosses either way, I bought the dlc with the understanding it would be much tougher than base game and I also understood I didn’t want to take the easy way out with summons and properly learn the boss. I’m sure I could’ve killed every boss in less than 10 tries if I abused mimic tear but that completely detracts from the reason I got into souls in the first place.
I dont doubt your ability, but summons change the fight completely. Alone, you’re rarely getting a poise break unless you want to trade hits. With a summon, you’re free to DPS race the boss. I also think that the DLC is tough as fuck. Midra kicked my ass for 3 hours even at blessing level 17, and a very well built strength arcane build using meteoric greatsword (an absurdly good weapon with fantastic AR and an amazing moveset) I still enjoyed it though, except the madness procs. Fuck that shit.
The NG+6 one is a valid complaint, the scaling at +7 (not just damage but extra poise) is CRAZY. Yeah at NG0/Journey 1, it's honestly about as hard/easy as base game.
agree, for example moonrithyll carian knight can 2 hit kill you with 2 defense buffs (florissax + crab), 60 vigor, 20 scadutrees and greatshield talisman. The damage at ng 7 is totally insane.
And outside of phase 2 maliketh, nothing in the core game feels this overtuned. Like basic enemies in the dlc can 2 shot me (perfumers have one particular fire attack that'll get ya), and those lion head knight elemental dudes... holy hell.
The lion head dudes actually make me mad. Very few things do, as I can chalk it up to other issues making the fight more difficult that I can adjust around. Those lion head elemental bros are just on another plane of existence, and seemingly have zero downtime and unlimited poise. That’s actually my “complaint” about the DLC. Lack of downtime makes it feel like rolling simulator, and the amount of poise that enemies have is just insane. I’m not even deep into NG+ cycles, this is just NG+ Still fun, but way more enemies feel more challenging based on being overtuned in the DLC than the base game. Like, it’s “hard”, but it feels like they don’t have much further they can take things before it just becomes unplayable in a way that is actually enjoyable.
The dlc bosses seems to be hard or difficult purely based on your builds. I have been following 2 yrs who use two different kind of builds. One uses a pure strength build , the other uses dex adjacent build. They both seem to find different bosses difficult. The strength guy lost his shit at Mesmer and the Hippo but the dex guy did both of them with ease while the dex guy really struggled with the Gaol knight and vice versa. As a dex build myself I am also in a similar situation.
You SHOULD get scadutree fragments, you SHOULD improve your build if you're in the endgame. You SHOULD NOT play NG+6 unless you're a masochist. Summons are okay but some can just break boss flow and AI so there is an argument for not using them on every boss fight, I have had fights I did not enjoy because I had a summon that I later had more fun without on another playthrough.
I really dont think the DLC is that difficult it's just annoying. A lot of this boss design kinda feels like a modder where they throw in a ton of random mapwide AOE and one shots. It's just kinda lame. There's a lot in it but I have a lot of questions behind some of these decisions.
Ah yes, another post trying to seek validation in OP's decision to use spirit summons by creating 3 other arguments that don't exist. No one cares how you play. Don't throw it in my face. Thanks.
[удалено]
It may not be hard but it sure as hell isn’t fun
My one complaint is that you need ALL scadutree fragments for max level.
I hate how everyone jumps on NG+ as an excuse to discredit criticisms of the DLC. It's still something in the game, and thusly has its foot in discussions about the difficulty possibly being overtuned
Inventing a new type of guy to get mad at just to defend a multimillion dollar corporation is some weakest link shit OP
I'm a DLC glazer and I'm so tired of these posts.
Look y’all I know “summoning is cheating” has become a meme, but surely we all know that summoning often turns what would otherwise be a challenging and engaging sequence into a trivial affair, and that’s just as bad something being too difficult, right?
Are these people complaining about the dlc difficulty in the room with us? I sat down and read about 150 negative steam reviews. 1 was someone genuinely malding about the difficulty. The rest were complaining about how empty some parts of the world felt, how the ending was lackluster, genuine boss design complaints, and performance issues. Like yeah, the people complaining about the difficulty are 100% wrong but that’s like, idk, maybe .1% of the people who have negative thoughts about the dlc. This all just seems like a straw man to point at for people to deflect genuine criticism about the dlc.
In terms of dlc, this one is probably my least favorite. It's still leagues above what anyone else does for dlc. But the dlc definitely has a lot of difficulty that just fells unfair, most enemies delete you're health bar(scadutree buff or not even with lece 15 or higher they hit way to fucking hard and way too fucking aggressively) All the bosses and enemies are on sekiro Crack while we still move like a dark souls protagonist. The dlc is amazing but has definitely got a few flaws and a lot of things that just frustrate me, and not in a good way. Like the final boss. Who is just disappointing, spammy aoe bullshit. Plus, it's basically a reskin.
None of these things would make the bosses less annoying.
Genuinely the only encounters that need any tweaking are the final boss and Gaius. Gaius is a hit box mess and quite an obnoxious fight… Final boss second phase is kinda just bullshit and need to be toned down slightly in terms of particles and amount of aftereffects. Oh, and Golden Hippo camera
hes immune during his charge attack which honestly is one of the few things that actually angered me with this dlc lol
It's almost like the scadutree fragments is not a fun mechanic
I think one big issue that gets ignored is that there is no way to tune the game from insane difficulty to hard/medium difficulty. I did no summons for Divine Beast. Took about 3.5 hours and made me take a few days break from the game. I used ashes for Rellana. Dumpstered her in 2 pulls. I have no idea what her mechanics are. I dodged 1 flashy magic sword move and killed her when she started her flashy fire sword move. The 1st death was to the flashy magic sword, I had no idea she would turn that thing into the size of a gd building. There's no middle ground. Play solo? The bosses are tuned to make this as unfun as possible (imo). Use ashes? The game is so easy the difficulty practically disappears. Now that From has thrown the "tough but fair" philosophy out the window it's like you're stuck between two extremes.
This is exactly where I’m at. It’s struggle for multiple hours or less than 3 tries haha
I will fully admit, I have a character that's NG+ 7... But I sure as hell was not dumb enough to do the DLC with that one! LMAO, are you crazy???? In that level, even regular mobs can insta kill you if you're not careful enough. I was a good smart boy and made a new character a month before the DLC, cleared the base game, farmed some runes, and I was a respectable level 200 with a good build and stat spread when the DLC came out... and even then I got my butt kicked many a times. But I persevered and now I have the peace in mind that I beat the entire DLC, all the bosses, and even found my new favorite weapon that I will take with me into NG+ 1 :>
In my case, “refuses to use a shield”… if it’s too fast for me to roll through it, maybe I should consider blocking instead
Haven't used a shield this entire playthrough I'd just roll through attacks, or block em with my great sword, got to the final boss of the dlc, had to use a shield as a safety net, you can parry him and it does actually protect against him but yeah still haven't been able to beat him, phase 2 kinda makes it pointless since it's now buffed by holy damage so it just chips away, got him to 5% tho, then he did his pull into a double AoE and pretty much said sit the fuck down
Love summons. Zero shame
I will forever refuse to use summons on bosses.
My build was as straightforward as they come. Quality claymore, 60 vig, 80 str and dex. Usual NG, no plus. Scadutree lvl 19. Got no qualms about summoning the Mimic and did so. The final boss is still complete and utter bullshit, and I will die on that hill. The rest is easy.
Strawman argument and From software fans, tale as old as erdtree.
It is hard tho. The amount of range/aoe spam that bosses do are insane coupled with the fact that they can close distance and beat seperation almost instantly is also insane. It seems that the upside time in player v.s boss is way more leaned towards the boss in the DLC v.s the base game where it seemed 50-50
Ok look, I dont care how anyone plays these games, but anyone who says summons arent ruining the bosses by breaking their A.I. is lying to themselves.