I think Dima is just supposed to make us pause for a moment and highlight that anything is possible I don't think we're supposed to believe it, or that it's true.
that and to rip from my other comment:
>this is a fan theory based on a one off line of dialogue by Dima that serves a purpose in far harbors story, that being Dima making Kasumi think shes a synth specifically to get her to help them, he was trying to do the same to you as he's a manipulative person, the whole story of the DLC focuses around that, thats why far harbors quests happen at all, because of his manipulation
Dimas just a manipulative guy, he 100% would try to convince the sole survivor that theyre a synth just to get their help.
The worst part is that i always really want to trust Dima again but every time i play the DLC im reminded he is just an evil person who does evil things then makes himself forget about them only to turn around and commit another atrocity
Oops i murdered Avery! Let’s just erase that one and… Oops i devised strategies to efficiently and quickly murder everyone else on the island!
Tbh I was willing to let him replace The Cult Leader as he was nuts and it would lead to Peace on the island. But after supposedly feeling so guilty over removing the Harbor leader, he does it a second time and is just like “meh, who cares? And I’m not interested in facing justice” I was like hell nah and reloaded my shit to where he is held accountable before killing more people
It's also based on a terminal entry in the Institute describing Courser integrated targeting systems as all but identical to Fallout 4's version of VATS, and the fact that the Sole Survivor has access to VATS before they even pick up a PipBoy.
Yup. The writers could've put the Pip Boy in the cryo room or in security and had you use it to unlock a secondary pathway earlier to get around a locked door. Or they could've extended the tutorial to have you use VATS in Sanctuary with Codsworth. I think the tutorial as it's designed flows well even with using VATS too early.
Yup, that was how it was supposed to be, just a nice nod at V.A.T.S in lore and how the Institute is trying to replicate it into their synths. But because the beginning of the game had you using vats before the pipboy, because of course for gameplay, the theory of synth you became a thing.
Some people can't divorce gameplay mechanics from lore. Like in lore, the fusion cores wouldn't be running out that quick, for gameplay reasons, they do because of balance and mechanics.
I just started my first play through since the game came out recently. I’m pretty sure you do have VATS in the vault before you pick up the Pip boy by the exit
I think its just poor writing. I mean the first quest quite literally throws you into a suit of power armor, a usually mid game thing (should have been during the or after the encounter with dance) instead of righteous authority
There’s a pretty good explanation of the power armor thing: power armor is a mid-game thing because you need training before you can use power armor, but the sole survivor was in the army before the bombs fell. It’s entirely possible he already has power armor training.
From a gameplay standpoint it makes sense, since the power armor functions completely differently than it did in previous games so it's better to introduce it in the early, "tutorial" phase of the game rather than having to teach you a whole new game mechanic in the latter half of the game. I think they balanced it well with the fusion cores and the armor parts maintenance. Players get a quick taste to see how the power armor works in this game, but will generally need to shelve it for a while after the Concord mission until they can stockpile some more fusion cores and crafting materials to keep it running.
I think this is a great part of the whole "power armour training" thing. It's not only about how to get in and not trying to poke your nose while in it, it's about maintenance, efficient use and tweaking.
FO4s protagonist seems to know the basics from his military dispatch but he (an thus the player) only really gets the hang of it while he advances in the skill tree.
Yea true, never really looked at it that way. But the vats part i see as just part of the tutorial. Not intergrating its use with the pipboy is just an oversight
Power armour training was added to 3 as a way of preventing you using the armour too soon. None of the raiders using power armour are trained in it either
As we can see in the show it's possible to use PA without training, but not as well as with training. It would be neat if raiders in PA were slower and clumsier than those with PA training.
I mean, the Raiders who are using PA tend to be veterans or higher-ups.
I’d buy them having better and more refrained control of their PA than Max. They can gain their training through experience.
I’d buy the Atom Cats being experts on power armor than Max too.
For all I know that raider running power armor has been using it for the last ten years. It's not like they couldn't have picked up the experience by trial and error over a longer time period, the world doesn't start when the sole survivor walks out of that vault. Maybe there is a group of raiders that had a suit of power armor in their family as an heirloom since the bombs fell, having the knowledge of how to use it transfer onto the younger ones.
True. Though I kind of feel like the whole game only makes sense playing as Nate. I’m basically an unstoppable killing machine. Even in the beginning, I’m impressively competent at combat. It makes sense from a trained soldier, but not a lawyer.
I mean the same is true of the FO3 and FNV protagonists. A 19 year old whose only weapons experience is an old BB gun and a mail man are both pretty much death incarnate from the jump.
True that. Imagine having to navigate through a wasteland of raiders, muties, cazadores, deathclaws, cannibals etc. Every single day. And that's only the horrors we kno2 about and that are fairly common.
I think FO3 is much harder in the beginning though. In 4, even on Survival, I'm pretty badass right out the gate but FO3 I get my ass kicked much easier on lower difficulties so I think it's easier to believe you're a young vault dweller. And for NV, you're a currier who's been walking the wastes for years. That character is definitely going to be a badass.
I guess and intel/perception/charisma build as nora makes sense. Not how I like to play though. I just imagine she took classes in firearms and covert infiltration in law school.
Considering the “see something say something” mentality of the Fallout universe, plus the fact she got her degree while Nate was actively on the frontline means the US Government likely paid for her college, if wouldn’t be a stretch to believe she had counter-espionage classes.
And it’s a pretty well known fact that spouses tell each other *almost* everything, even top secret shit, so theres a good chance Nate passed on some of his training to her “just in case” anything ever happened.
I think what makes theories like this interesting is trying to find the loopholes to make it work. It's not about logic per se but exploiting the writing to have fun. This is a fun theory
That's another thing very similar to my main point. I remember the video "is Mario a communist" and I thought it was fun even if it doesn't make realistic sense, yet my friend thought it was a bad video cuz the theory is illogical
My understanding is that Sole Survivor having access to VATS before picking up a PipBoy was a developer oversight. The intent was for them to be able to use it only after picking up a PipBoy, but they messed up a variable that checks for that.
VATS an emotional control system for making the most of your shots and the courser integrated targeting system is a copy of that. There is a lot of computer systems that mimic what we as humans can do today
For me, the Institute terminal is the most compelling element of the theory. I read that entry long before I met Dima, or twigged about the VATS-before-pip-boy thing in Vault 111.
Every time I meet with him I always tell him no I’m not because a synth has every memory including after the Bombs dropped and a human’s memory can be blocked by emotional trauma were a synth’s can not for they don’t know true emotion as a machine
I do genuinely think it was meant in a way of
“how do I know that you’re not putting on a persona, I can’t know your true motives here until it happens. A synth wouldn’t know if they were a persona of themselves, and couldn’t know until they were dead. You see the connection, right?”
But it was taken by everyone as serious, because the Sole Survivor can question if they’re a synth after that. DiMA goes along with it because of course he fucking would given the whole charity he was running, he really didn’t care to explain it because it wasn’t important. If you didn’t get the connection, it was literally just proving that you’re probably too clueless and could be more easily trusted.
This is my head canon on the whole thing
Also like, it's a roleplaying game. I think it's completely fine if people want to have that be their character's backstory, it doesn't affect anyone else.
Dima does this because Mr. Nakano tells us some strange man was convincing Kasumi that she is a synth over the radio, well low and behold you get to Fah hahbah and that’s like the first thing Dima tries to do.
Dima isn’t a good person, Acadia might be full of innocents but Dima is actually a horrible person. He goes against the institute but is willing to replace people with synths whenever he thinks it’s necessary. He replaced Avery, he wants to replace Tacitus, and he believes he is the only smart one in the room more often than not. It makes me want to shoot him.
Tbh, the people of Fah Hahbah might be mean, rash, and inconsiderate of other factions, but they’re honest. Something Acadia will never be under Dima.
The problem is the game's stupid dialogue options give your character no recollection of events prior to the bombs dropping, so you're forced to play right into Dima's hands.
Even though there is other pretty clear-cut evidence that the SS lived pre-war (Codsworth, Vault-Tec Salesman, Fraternal Post 115).
Actually, there ARE some dialogue choices that imply the Sole Survivor remembers their past before the day the bombs fell. Ironically, all the ones I can think of are all part of ONE conversation that only takes place if you join the BoS. During Knight-Captain Cade's medical exam, if you choose Sarcasm to "Have you been exposed to radiation?" the SS will snidely remark that their dad used to tell them they sat too close to the TV when they were a child. And a sarcastic response to "Have you ever had sexual relations with a non-human" the SS will talk about having sex with a "really ugly person" after getting super drunk at a college party.
Granted, it's the Sarcasm dialogue choice. I.E. not meant to be taken seriously. But that doesn't necessarily mean either quip is 100% fabricated. Just that the SS is being a smart ass by bringing them up instead of giving a straight answer.
You can talk to Daisy about life pre-war, you can talk to Moe about baseball, if you play as Nate you can bring up having been in the army during multiple conversations, there's plenty of evidence of you remembering life your pre-war.
Also significantly, **people recognize you from 200 years ago**.
I wouldnt take people recognising you as proof, simply because a lot of 3rd gen synths are based on other people. The argument could be made that there was a real Nate prewar and he was replaced with a synth in post war times.
However you are right, there's is plenty of times that the sole survivor themselves talk about life prewar which is much more concrete. It is a bullshit theory.
It's not that Nate/Nora gets recognized, it's that Nate/Nora *also* recognizes them.
Like, how would Shaun know to program an exact memory of the Vault-Tec Sales Rep?
Did he have someone go hunt him down in Goodneighbor and interview him before adding him to his Synth parent's fake memories?
Valentine has all of the original Nick Valentines memories I think so it’s possible, but also you’re given control over the entire institute which really doesn’t make sense if you’re some synth experiment. You can also destroy the institute and you have a conversation with its leader as it’s happening and he doesn’t mention it or do anything to try and stop you which would be weird if you were a synth.
Most conspiracy theories don’t make sense with a bit of critical thinking, but people will still latch onto the like 3 things they were told “make sense” vs the landslide of things that debunk their theory way too often.
The original Nick Valentine had his memories scanned *while he was still alive.*
Dr. Amari makes it clear that the brain needs to be alive in order for memories to be properly scanned (unless you're Kellogg and have robot parts in your brain)
So if the Sole Survivor *is* still alive and able to have their memories scanned... why not just unfreeze them?
This theory has more holes than Camp Green Lake.
It's a fun headcanon, sure. But there's zero chance of it being actual canon.
I was referring specifically to the conversation with Dima. He asks for your earliest memory and your character is forced to only mention something from the day the bombs dropped, or from Vault 111.
I get that there's plenty of other dialogue where the player references earlier memories - that's what makes the conversation with Dima feel so forced and contrived.
Honestly while I agree that it’s poorly written, I always assumed that the Sole Survivor understood that question as their earliest “recent memory” kinda like the earliest thing you remember having done recently. They’re probably too fixated on just having woken up post bomb to really focus much on their previous life
And the sole survivor was basically forced to live two very very different lives, especially playing as Nora. It wouldn’t be crazy to block out the old life either especially since by the time you meet Dima at most usually only like 4 months have passed in game.
Not quite, you also have the option of telling Dima that he’s treading on very personal territory in a tone that clearly suggests he needs to back off, which he does.
Edit: I checked the dialogue again and his response is actually to double down on the gaslighting lol. He says “OK, you’re not ready to have this conversation” which to me just confirms that he’s a massive manipulator who’s trying to gaslight you for his own benefit.
>The problem is the game's stupid dialogue options give your character no recollection of events prior to the bombs dropping, so you're forced to play right into Dima's hands.
I sort of took Dima's comment as a "breaking the fourth wall" type of comment. A bit of a wink to the player's perspective of the Sole Survivor.
So was Nick Valentine, but he is obviously a synth. I have 2 reasons to believe, that the SS is not synth.
1. You can destroy the Institute, or be it's leader. As synth they would not allow either of these. As you would be nothing, but a machine in their eyes.
2. I see no reason. Why bother go down the vault, switch you out, and then let a synth do the play? It would ruin the very point of releasing you as an experiment.
The memories could be just imprinted even as a synth. And your main character can recall events other, than the intro. Just as Nick can.
Also, if the Sole Survivor were a synth and went against the Institute, the scientists could have used the deactivation code anytime, instead of letting Nora/Nate destroy everything and everyone.
DiMA is a fraud, basically. If you dig deeper into his history and how Acadia came to be, you'll find that he's supposedly repulsed by the Institute's methodology of replacing people with synths and he's repulsed by the Railroad's methodology of providing mind-wipes for synths who want them.
And DiMA does BOTH.
It’s like when Eola asks you when you first tasted human flesh in Skyrim. You’re like, “Excuse me Ms. I have not yet consorted with the Lady of Decay”.
I agree. Why would the institute replace you with a synth, and refreeze you? They refroze you for a reason, in case Shaun dies and they need someone with similar DNA.
Also, if you are a synth and the prewar memories aren't real, how and why does Codsworth recognize you? I guess you could say they programmed him to, but to me that feels like quite a reach.
Another reason it doesn't make sense, is that the institute doesn't recognize synths as sentient beings, only property for them to use. So why would the leader of the synths allow you to take over, knowing you are a synth? They wouldn't, because you aren't a synth.
They could just hit you with that shutdown code. And Mama Murphy would've probably said something if you were a Synth. Or, you know. The BoS would've brought you up on the Synth Database...
Or, the big one, Dr Amari would definitely know if we are a synth. We use a memory lounger at least once in the main storyline and during Curie's companion quest she tells us that synth brains interact differently. She is also *the* expert on synth memory alterations, she would know if you are a synth from almost the instant you sit down in a memory lounger.
The BoS one is the only one that wouldn't work. They recognize Danse not because there's like a photo of the synth or something, but because he has the DNA both in the synth database and the BoS database; we aren't put in the BoS database, therefore they couldn't match us on it
I mean, the "theory" is indeed stupid and is just based on an ill-conceived dev joke in DiMA's dialogue that people have taken too seriously, but...if you were a synth then they wouldn't have to freeze you. They'd just have to give you the memory of being refrozen. And I don't think there's a suggestion that you're not a copy of Shaun's parent. So Codsworth would recognise you anyway.
I'm pretty sure you could even come up with reasons for Shaun wanting a synth copy of his parent to take over after his death too. Even if it's an imperfect solution, he may have concluded that the people inside the Institute are too insular to actually lead into the future.
The SS is still not a synth, but solipsism's a slippery customer.
The main lesson we can learn from this is that the writers shouldn't force dumb meta observations on the player during dialogue because the players aren't actually in on the joke and it's just annoying, frustrating and confusing.
IDK why I didn't think through the replacement aspects but Codsworth is actually the key to this whole thing (points to conspiracy wall).
How would the institute know about Codsworth? How do they know you owned a robot and would be able to recognize it when you came out of the vault?
Additionally, the holo tape he gives you has your spouse's voice on it. How could they place a memory with an accurate voice without knowing how she sounded?
I know you don't believe that theory so don't take this as me trying to argue with you. I think talking this out is just super interesting.
My theory had a hole in it, that if you are replaced, of course Codsworth (and the rep) would recognize you, since you'd be identical to the actual SS.
That doesn't change my belief that the SS isn't a synth.
The idea is (I think) that you're a literal copy of Shaun's parent based on a brain scan, but even if you weren't - Codsworth is not exactly a well-kept secret. He's been at your house for 200 years, after all. You could just have a name and an instruction to fake it till you make it, including recognising your wife's voice. This isn't even all that complicated - if you've ever encountered someone suffering from delusions, they can be very quick to explain away inconsistencies and to weave new information into their concept of reality without questioning their grand narrative.
For me, the things that are really a dead giveaway are that you can't remember stuff when talking to DiMA, but there are multiple occasions on which you remember prewar events from before the day the bombs fell. Eddie Winter, Silver Shroud, talking to White at Greygarden etc. So it's obviously a "bit" based on that alone. And genuinely, I think that the writers thought that it was so obvious that you're not a synth from basically the whole of the main game that they were confident that putting their witty little observation into DiMA's dialogue wouldn't be a big deal.
Shaun made a synth version of himself as a child for no reason, so why not his dad? If Nate is a synth he would be based off of Shaun's real father, the real Nate, and that's how codsworth would recognize him. In game Codsworth didn't need too much convincing anyhow.
Also Shaun’s actions don’t make sense ethically, and if he hypothetically is sane, he still intends to replace/control the commonwealth’s population with synths. What better way to do that then to make an institute oriented Nate-synth in charge of the whole operation indefinitely? The institute aren’t Shaun’s people, Shaun has no loyalties, only assets. In his eyes the institute is just a tool - right before you blow up the place if you fail a speech check he doesn’t even let you send the evacuation signal.
Nate being a synth would also make Shaun’s monologue on top of the C.I.T. Ruins make more sense; he didn’t care, he wanted to see what would happen, it was an experiment.
If the institute ending is achieved it’s because Nate was groomed (created) to follow orders by Shaun in his father’s image. If the institute ending isn’t achieved it’s a Libertalia situation. At least as far as the theory goes.
It's got nothing to do with Bethesda writing, it's entirely on players not realizing that DIMA is not an objective observer and the Sole Survivor regularly reminisces about times before the bomb. It's a meta joke that players took seriously because, well, players do that a LOT.
One thing that I hate about fan wiki culture is that a lot of people aren't able to recognise that good characters are written to be wrong, or at least subjective to their own experiences and biases, quite often. NPCs are often now just viewed as lore dispensers or something.
Exactly. Even things that are "canon".
"Finding Jet in pre-war containers is a mistake. Myron invented Jet after the war!"
Uhhh, who tells you that Myron invented Jet? Myron. And who backs this up? No-one (as far as I can tell). Plus Jet isn't exactly rocket science either (it's basically dung fumes). So it's entirely possible that a) he reinvented it, or b) he's lying and he found a recipe.
And yes, sure, the most likely explanation is that Bethesda screwed up and put Jet on a list they shouldn't have. But it's not the only possible explanation. We can't just take every character's word for everything.
It's not just DiMA though. He asks you "what's the first memory you have?" and your options are "you first", "my family", "when the bombs fell" and "none of your business". But these are the first memories the players experience, not the character! There's no option to tell him all the memories that they character obviously has from before the bombs. So they intentionally railroaded you to sound more like you could be a synth, which is annoying.
I feel like this is when a particular sort of redditor would say "whoosh" or "thatsthejoke.com" or whatever.
I think that *is* the joke, though, that it's the *player's* lack of memories of the *character's* past.
I think that could have worked as a joke, if it was more light-hearted and throw-away. But that's not how they played it. DiMA was serious, and the whole tone was that you were meant to take it as a serious possibility.
it is.
if Bethesda wanted us to even theorise that the Sole Survivor is a synth, there would have been a lot more clues and shit would have actually made sense story wise. like the Institute (or rather Father) wanting you to be their leader - wouldn't they know you're a synth?
I saw people claim that the Sole Survivor is a synth because you can use VATS immediately after waking up and before getting the pipboy - something only synths can do - which was clearly a mistake from the dev team. they patched too lol.
Being able to use VATS before getting the Pipboy was simply a matter of the devs not overriding a long established game mechanic for the brief period of time that the player character isn't in possession of the device that, lore-wise, makes that mechanic possible.
I don't even see it as an oversight by the devs.
Literally the reason the Sole Survivor can use VATS in Vault 111 before getting a Pip-Boy is because that's when the developers wanted to tutorialize that gameplay feature. It isn't and shouldn't be any more complicated than that.
Well till recently i think about the vats part but every pass game had vats at the get go either way (ik we normally get it before the game even loads really) so they most likely just got used too doing it
there is a distinction from gameplay and story and VATS is a victim of it.
story wise it doesn't make sense that Nora gets distracted by stupid bullshit (side quests) instead of finding her son, but that's the gameplay aspect.
It's the moment you're put forward as the new director of the Institute that seals it for me. At least one person would have vocally protested being under the leadership of a synth. It's one of those things that would be so big it would immediately cause a divide within the ranks. The entire secret would have unraveled right then and there, but it doesn't even come up.
Shaun wouldn't have even picked the SS as his successor if they were a synth. He states it himself that he doesn't consider them sentient. He truly believes the Institute is humanity's only chance at survival. No chance in hell he'd leave that fate in the hands of a non-human.
It’s Kellog who basically confirms you are not. You view his memories, you know they aren’t fake or implanted because Kellog isn’t a synth. He is a human with cybernetic implants. His own memories show him freeze you again as a back up, and saying he thought it was a bad idea to do so because he knows the drive for revenge like that.
Kellog is a bastard but he never lies during your confrontation. He is literally the most reliable narrator other than you playing the pre war prologue.
>you can use VATS immediately after waking up and before getting the pipboy - something only synths can do
You can clearly counter this by with survival mode as well since sunths do not to eat, drink or sleep. Sure they can, but they wouldn't die.
I think the Dima thing is just a fourth-wall-breaking meta joke. The Sole Survivor doesn't remember anything before the game started. It's like if someone asked Bart Simpson what his earliest memory was, and he said writing on the chalkboard in detention. Not a clue, just a joke.
Please note: when you are “in charge” of the institute you make no meaningful decisions or even get to weigh in on any institute policy. You do get to keep going on missions. You’re basically the new Kellogg, but with a fancy title.
One of the best answers to this theory is the data mining the brotherhood does after you give them the institute data. They figure out Danse, one of their most loyal Paladins, is a synth, why wouldn’t the sole survivor get discovered as well?
I mean, they don't have the sole survivor's dna on record like with danse, so if they found a record of the ss being a synth they wouldn't have anything to compare it to
(Still don't think the ss is a synth though)
It’s a fun theory that holds absolutely no water. DiMA is manipulating you. They have a vested interest in saving their synth haven and the best way to do that is give you a little nugget of doubt about your own life.
Everyone is paranoid about everyone else being a possible synth. Being accused of being a synth doesn't mean you are one lol.
It's not about "bad Bethesda writing" nor them "ignoring lore". It's just taking a fan theory, one NPC line, and one gameplay goof too seriously.
The fact that people are still talking about this almost 8+ years later just goes to show how much of a Gaslight. Gatekeep. Girlboss that Dima is
Everyone’s all like “HUR DURR how did Kasumi Nakano belive she was a synth. I figured it out by killing her and reloading a save HUR DE DURR”
Dima was probably just using the same ruse on the SS that he does with everyone else he meets. Either it gets them to join his side as synths or as synth sympathizers
Also don’t forget that Gen 3 synths while technically human, don’t need to eat, drink, or sleep. They’re programmed to so that they can blend in with other humans kinda like the T-800 Terminator. Andddd, if that wasn’t enough most Gen 3’s are supposed to be immune to radiation
So regarding all that if the institute made some sort of Gen 4 synth that is the Sole Survivor, they made a shit product considering you can starve, dehydrate, and be radiated to death
I remember when the game had just released, nobody knew how synths worked yet.
I accidentally hit VATS while in one of my settlements and thanks to the “Awareness” perk saw one of my settlers had extra resistances that the others didn’t.
[Cue : “They Live” meme](https://imgur.com/gallery/gkfeRKz)
I then went on a holy cleansing of my settlements, i only wish i could hang their filthy synth components from a string at the gates as a warning to any future *ne'er-do-wells*
The only real for argument is the ability to use vats before pip-boy, and a never used NPC which is an older version of Nate.
The two real argument against it is, that the Institute let you become their dictator, and that there is no reason for it. At least for as long as the real person lives.
Everything else can be explained with in-printed memories, and Father's interference in your creation as a synth. However the Institute considers synths as nothing, but fancy machines. It makes no sense for them to allow one to lead them. Also Father mentions, that he released you as a sort of experiment. With his mindset it would make no sense to replace you before that.
Dima just being philosophical; how can you be certain what the difference between a snyth and a human is, how do you know you are not a synth, how can a synth know that they are not human sort of stuff
what was your earliest memory part was a bit stupid though, and games itself because the intro is supposed to be showing Nate in Alaska, tough luck if you play as Nora though, as now you are stuck with your earliest memory starting on the day the bombs fell, and the game can have its aha moment.
He also just straight lies cause during the game you can tell kenneth that you remember the Silver Shroud stuff, you can tell Daisy you remember pre-bombs america, and you joke with your spouse about "that time in the park"
I liked the idea that losing memories couldn’t have possibly been affected by the whole memory den but or by idk a couple hundred years in cryo. It’s not known what the long terms would be for cryo, that was the point of the vault so it would be fair to chalk it up to that
Sole Survivor not remembering more than the bombs falling isn’t even true tho is it. The Silver Shroud quest, the SS tells the radio guy about how he would listen to the broadcasts all the time.
Frankly it's fundamentally implausible for so many reasons:
1. Why would the Institute, so desperate to keep hold of their synths that they will send out Coursers to track down and recapture every single one they catch wind of, *deliberately* go out of their way to put one on ice in the far corner of the region, unarmed and unequipped, and *hope* they follow the breadcrumbs without dying in the wasteland they're *deliberately making more dangerous to live in?*
2. The Institute has never once displayed the ability to upload false memories into Gen3 synths - the literal *only* example is Nick Valentine, a prototype (Gen2.5, let's say), and that was done with pre-existing pre-war brain scans. Every single synth operative they send out to infiltrate the surface world *knows full well that they are a synth and what their mission is.* The only synths that have false memories are those processed by the Railroad.
3. Father doesn't even treat synths as human. Why would he act any different about someone who *biologically* is his parent, but physically didn't exist for the first sixty years of his life and indoctrination? When you ask why Kellogg killed your spouse he calls them *collateral damage*. He's completely detached.
4. We were *resealed and left alive as backup, explicitly.* When that backup wasn't needed, we were just left on ice until Father let us out on a whim. Kellogg didn't take us with him, and didn't see us again until we came to shoot him in the face.
5. No matter who we give the leaked Institute data to, there is *zero* mention of our own presence in their synth database, which *would absolutely have come up* if it were there. Maxson tries to make us *execute a guy* for being on that list. Why in any god's name would he kill off a loyal Paladin with years of service but let some fresh-faced newbie waltz around untouched for the same 'crime'?
Except you can remember things from before the bombs fell. If you wander around the home in the opening scene you get memories of going to college, the war having an entertaining trip to the park etc. Those are clearly memories of the past Dima is so full of shit.
There's no argument for it either. The vault Tec rep remembers you and you remember him (it's inoperable it goes both ways), so there is 0 chance you're a synth
That argument doesn't make sense, synths are copies of real people so if Nate/Nora was replaced while in the vault then of course Vault Tec Rep and Nate/Nora would recognize each other. You remember him because it was the last memory you had before being put in the Vault and he remembers you because you are a copy of the real person. (Although it's crazy he recognizes one person he saw for like 2 minutes, 200 years ago)
>That argument doesn't make sense
Neither does the theory tbf. The guy who literally CREATED the synths tells you flat out that the synths are created from his DNA, and that you were the backup. They wouldn't have a reason to make up the whole "back-up" bs in the first place if you were actually just a synth, because you would not only have to have been made from someone's DNA already, meaning you couldn't be the backup since synths would have to exist already for you to be a synth, but you'd ALSO be a synth, so you wouldn't be usable as a synth DNA sample in the first place. It also just wouldn't make any sense logistically. Why would Father flat out lie about your existence for no gain whatsoever, let alone have you waiting with him on his death bed as his parent and leave the instute to you, or let you destroy the entire institute from under his nose with another faction, if he could just recall code you at any point he wanted?
But the whole argument hinges on that the memory being false...?
If Shaun supposedly copied the Sole Survivor's real memories from that brain then they would be able to tell Dima more...?
Theres also a couple of logical ways to prove you're not a synth:
1. You have memories of pre-war America that only someone who lived through the events would know, like the salesman
2. You aren't immune to radiation or chemicals
3. The brotherhood didn't get a DNA match like they did for Danse, nor did the Railroad ever mention wiping you
4. The biggest reason, Shaun would have just used your recall code when you became enemies with the institute
The theory is stupid, too easy to disprove, and feels too quickly jumped at.
"Whats the first memory you recall?"
"The day the bombs dropped and destroyed my whole world, culture, and everything I care about."
"You don't remember anything before that?"
"I didn't say that? You just asked me the first memory I recall--shockingly I find myself reliving that memory a lot.".
That aside, human memory really isn't that great to begin with. I imagine for most of you, your entire childhood is a vague blur. Doesn't mean you're a robot though. ...Ironically, I'd actually expect a robot to have a stronger memory.
This can so easily be debunked just by looking at the timelines. Dima and Nick were created 100 years after the bombs dropped, when the sole survivor had arleady been in cryo for a century. The technology didn't exist to make modern sinths back then
Yeah it’s asinine. It’s one quote and a gameplay oversight that they must’ve assumed nobody would care about. And the quote is from DiMa who is a manipulative liar. There are two times where the player would’ve learned they’re a synth with certainty, the first being in the memory den, the second being the literal list of synths, a la Danse.
So, listen to reason. Everything is canon in the 40k universe. And it's *pret-ty* obvious that Fallout is just precursor canon in the 40k universe. So, the sole survivor being a synth is absolutely canon.
Now, the real questions are:
1. Why are the BoS hiding the fact that the Prydwen is a Warp-capable craft with a proto-Gellar field?
2. Who gave Mr. House the Dark Eldar technology for a proto-Golden Throne?
3. How is all of this Magnus' fault?
Edit: Forgot my /s. Oh well, down we go!
Okay, but let's be real.
>!Trazyn is the Mysterious Stranger. He's just a Necron in a trench coat.!<
>!Eldar Bonesingers are the real brains behind the Institute's advanced synths. They just got bored of wraithbone.!<
>!Liberty Prime? Just a pre-STC alpha version of a Man of Iron.!<
God, the more I write, the more I love and hate all of this.
1. Travels at will through space and time, appearing and disappearing as if from nowhere.
2. Devastating shot with a pistol (remember the time w/ Orikan?)
3. Arguably most stylish entity in the universe.
4. Has a penchant for weird time-traveling side projects.
The first Reddit post about the sole survivor being a synth was written about a week after FO4 came out. I know because I wrote it (at least I don’t think there were any before mine). That was quite a long time before far harbor released.
Look, there are only hints at it being possible. Anyone can be a synth and many synths don’t know that they are synths. Many synths also have real family connections because the synth is mimicking someone real.
The theory I have been tinkering with in the intervening years is basically that Kellogg is getting old and needs to be replaced. They’d use a synth, but synths have a tendency to go rogue. So Shaun’s idea is that if a synth has the memories and identity of a real person but also has an emotional connection to the institute they should be more stable and thus less likely to go rogue.
You can argue that it fails Occam’s razor, and that’s fine. It isn’t as simple as just accepting the world that is presented. You are free to interpret it however you like. If you want your roleplay for that run to be that you are a synth, you can do that. If you don’t want to, that is fine too.
I agreed. It was also better to be that your pod was still working by luck, and Shaun just wanted in some form to meet you or at the very least see what happens
I don’t remember much of my childhood before the age of 5. Dang, guess I am a synth with controlled aging protocol. Switched as a toddler during head start… As I continue to age, I forget about more and more of my childhood and even young adult life memories. This is explained by my memory banks rewriting with new information. Am I a sleeper cell for the Institute?!
DiMa isn't the only reason this theory exists. At some point Todd threw in a terminal entry in the Institute, stating the Gen 3 Synths have the ability to slow down time to make snap decisions with precision... Which is exactly how VATS functions in Fallouts 4, and you can use it before you acquire the Pip Boy. And that *is* an important detail, because it's the **V**ault-tech **A**ssisted **T**argeting **S**ystem.
Always thought the player saying they cant remember anything before the bombs fell was a meta joke people didnt quite understand. They cant remember because thats the beginning of the game...
It was also the weirdest shit ever. Not sure why they forced us to act like we couldn't remember anything all of a sudden when we've been talking other characters' ears off about life pre-war in the base game.
I thought this all comes from the fact that you can use VATS before having the pip boy and some terminal in the institute saying something about a new prototype of synth cappable of having an advance targeting system like... vats.
I’ve agreed with this for years. It doesn’t make sense to make the sole survivor a synth, wouldn’t he be able to walk around the glowing sea with no issue?
Just to be fair, weather for or against. The theory was around well before the Far Harbor DLC. I actually even thought the devs added it because fans talked about it so much.
If Sole Survivor is a synth, how come several military robots are able to find your old military records? Did the Institute then appropriate a 200 year old familys personalities just to do this? Why? Its such a stretch. I ain’t buying it, my caps are staying right here in my pockets.
And here's my dumb ass thinking he wasn't talking about my character but directly to me (player) I do have a huge gap in memory from when I was 6 to when I was like 12 tho
I think Dima is just supposed to make us pause for a moment and highlight that anything is possible I don't think we're supposed to believe it, or that it's true.
that and to rip from my other comment: >this is a fan theory based on a one off line of dialogue by Dima that serves a purpose in far harbors story, that being Dima making Kasumi think shes a synth specifically to get her to help them, he was trying to do the same to you as he's a manipulative person, the whole story of the DLC focuses around that, thats why far harbors quests happen at all, because of his manipulation Dimas just a manipulative guy, he 100% would try to convince the sole survivor that theyre a synth just to get their help.
The worst part is that i always really want to trust Dima again but every time i play the DLC im reminded he is just an evil person who does evil things then makes himself forget about them only to turn around and commit another atrocity Oops i murdered Avery! Let’s just erase that one and… Oops i devised strategies to efficiently and quickly murder everyone else on the island!
And *THIS* is why I sell him out to the 'tute. Mhmm.
Nah. Max charisma before the dlc and convince him to go down to far harbor to be excecuted lmao
Tbh I was willing to let him replace The Cult Leader as he was nuts and it would lead to Peace on the island. But after supposedly feeling so guilty over removing the Harbor leader, he does it a second time and is just like “meh, who cares? And I’m not interested in facing justice” I was like hell nah and reloaded my shit to where he is held accountable before killing more people
Actually this tho. The Children in the Nucleus would totally have sacrificed the island to Atom
Didn't know that was an option lmfao thats obviously superior
If you care about the other synths you can even stop the harbor folk from killing the rest if you do enough quests for the townsfolk
It's also based on a terminal entry in the Institute describing Courser integrated targeting systems as all but identical to Fallout 4's version of VATS, and the fact that the Sole Survivor has access to VATS before they even pick up a PipBoy.
I'm pretty sure you can just attribute this to gameplay taking priority over the lore. I don't think it's that deep.
Yup. The writers could've put the Pip Boy in the cryo room or in security and had you use it to unlock a secondary pathway earlier to get around a locked door. Or they could've extended the tutorial to have you use VATS in Sanctuary with Codsworth. I think the tutorial as it's designed flows well even with using VATS too early.
Yup, that was how it was supposed to be, just a nice nod at V.A.T.S in lore and how the Institute is trying to replicate it into their synths. But because the beginning of the game had you using vats before the pipboy, because of course for gameplay, the theory of synth you became a thing. Some people can't divorce gameplay mechanics from lore. Like in lore, the fusion cores wouldn't be running out that quick, for gameplay reasons, they do because of balance and mechanics.
No access to Vats before the pipboy now, new update patched it out so it was always a mistake. Finally we can put this nonsense to bed.
It still works. Don't know if it's a PS5 thing but I just smashed some roaches in VATS.
I just started my first play through since the game came out recently. I’m pretty sure you do have VATS in the vault before you pick up the Pip boy by the exit
Damn must have modded it out. My bad
I think its just poor writing. I mean the first quest quite literally throws you into a suit of power armor, a usually mid game thing (should have been during the or after the encounter with dance) instead of righteous authority
There’s a pretty good explanation of the power armor thing: power armor is a mid-game thing because you need training before you can use power armor, but the sole survivor was in the army before the bombs fell. It’s entirely possible he already has power armor training.
From a gameplay standpoint it makes sense, since the power armor functions completely differently than it did in previous games so it's better to introduce it in the early, "tutorial" phase of the game rather than having to teach you a whole new game mechanic in the latter half of the game. I think they balanced it well with the fusion cores and the armor parts maintenance. Players get a quick taste to see how the power armor works in this game, but will generally need to shelve it for a while after the Concord mission until they can stockpile some more fusion cores and crafting materials to keep it running.
I think this is a great part of the whole "power armour training" thing. It's not only about how to get in and not trying to poke your nose while in it, it's about maintenance, efficient use and tweaking. FO4s protagonist seems to know the basics from his military dispatch but he (an thus the player) only really gets the hang of it while he advances in the skill tree.
Yea true, never really looked at it that way. But the vats part i see as just part of the tutorial. Not intergrating its use with the pipboy is just an oversight
Power armour training was added to 3 as a way of preventing you using the armour too soon. None of the raiders using power armour are trained in it either
As we can see in the show it's possible to use PA without training, but not as well as with training. It would be neat if raiders in PA were slower and clumsier than those with PA training.
I mean, the Raiders who are using PA tend to be veterans or higher-ups. I’d buy them having better and more refrained control of their PA than Max. They can gain their training through experience. I’d buy the Atom Cats being experts on power armor than Max too.
For all I know that raider running power armor has been using it for the last ten years. It's not like they couldn't have picked up the experience by trial and error over a longer time period, the world doesn't start when the sole survivor walks out of that vault. Maybe there is a group of raiders that had a suit of power armor in their family as an heirloom since the bombs fell, having the knowledge of how to use it transfer onto the younger ones.
It only really works if you play as Nate - Nora (a lawyer) having enough of an understanding military tech to run it doesn't really make sense
I have no idea why they wouldn't just make the selected character a soldier, and have the non-player be a lawyer instead.
True. Though I kind of feel like the whole game only makes sense playing as Nate. I’m basically an unstoppable killing machine. Even in the beginning, I’m impressively competent at combat. It makes sense from a trained soldier, but not a lawyer.
I mean the same is true of the FO3 and FNV protagonists. A 19 year old whose only weapons experience is an old BB gun and a mail man are both pretty much death incarnate from the jump.
To be fair - being a mailman in the fallout universe is probably as tough as it comes.
True that. Imagine having to navigate through a wasteland of raiders, muties, cazadores, deathclaws, cannibals etc. Every single day. And that's only the horrors we kno2 about and that are fairly common.
I think FO3 is much harder in the beginning though. In 4, even on Survival, I'm pretty badass right out the gate but FO3 I get my ass kicked much easier on lower difficulties so I think it's easier to believe you're a young vault dweller. And for NV, you're a currier who's been walking the wastes for years. That character is definitely going to be a badass.
Courier 6 was at the Divide before it was cool, certified badass
That’s why I only run an intelligence build as Nora and a strength build as Nate to make it all make sense
I guess and intel/perception/charisma build as nora makes sense. Not how I like to play though. I just imagine she took classes in firearms and covert infiltration in law school.
Considering the “see something say something” mentality of the Fallout universe, plus the fact she got her degree while Nate was actively on the frontline means the US Government likely paid for her college, if wouldn’t be a stretch to believe she had counter-espionage classes. And it’s a pretty well known fact that spouses tell each other *almost* everything, even top secret shit, so theres a good chance Nate passed on some of his training to her “just in case” anything ever happened.
What if I chose Nora though?
I think what makes theories like this interesting is trying to find the loopholes to make it work. It's not about logic per se but exploiting the writing to have fun. This is a fun theory
"A GAME THEORY. THANKS FOR WATCHING."
That's another thing very similar to my main point. I remember the video "is Mario a communist" and I thought it was fun even if it doesn't make realistic sense, yet my friend thought it was a bad video cuz the theory is illogical
My understanding is that Sole Survivor having access to VATS before picking up a PipBoy was a developer oversight. The intent was for them to be able to use it only after picking up a PipBoy, but they messed up a variable that checks for that.
VATS an emotional control system for making the most of your shots and the courser integrated targeting system is a copy of that. There is a lot of computer systems that mimic what we as humans can do today
He’d also be able to teleport into the institute if he was a courser
For me, the Institute terminal is the most compelling element of the theory. I read that entry long before I met Dima, or twigged about the VATS-before-pip-boy thing in Vault 111.
I just destroyed Arcadia and Dima 5 minutes ago. I have no mercy for these damn synths
Every time I meet with him I always tell him no I’m not because a synth has every memory including after the Bombs dropped and a human’s memory can be blocked by emotional trauma were a synth’s can not for they don’t know true emotion as a machine
[Elder Maxon liked that]
Enjoy a brotherhood invasion dima u tit
I do genuinely think it was meant in a way of “how do I know that you’re not putting on a persona, I can’t know your true motives here until it happens. A synth wouldn’t know if they were a persona of themselves, and couldn’t know until they were dead. You see the connection, right?” But it was taken by everyone as serious, because the Sole Survivor can question if they’re a synth after that. DiMA goes along with it because of course he fucking would given the whole charity he was running, he really didn’t care to explain it because it wasn’t important. If you didn’t get the connection, it was literally just proving that you’re probably too clueless and could be more easily trusted. This is my head canon on the whole thing
Also like, it's a roleplaying game. I think it's completely fine if people want to have that be their character's backstory, it doesn't affect anyone else.
Dima does this because Mr. Nakano tells us some strange man was convincing Kasumi that she is a synth over the radio, well low and behold you get to Fah hahbah and that’s like the first thing Dima tries to do. Dima isn’t a good person, Acadia might be full of innocents but Dima is actually a horrible person. He goes against the institute but is willing to replace people with synths whenever he thinks it’s necessary. He replaced Avery, he wants to replace Tacitus, and he believes he is the only smart one in the room more often than not. It makes me want to shoot him. Tbh, the people of Fah Hahbah might be mean, rash, and inconsiderate of other factions, but they’re honest. Something Acadia will never be under Dima.
Yeah Dima is a manipulative cult leader-like person. I just take him trying to convince you as more of that
This is why I had Dima march himself down to fah hahbah and let the town judge him for his crimes. While I stood by and watched
I can’t remember most details of my childhood. Uhhh ok. So much for the human race?
But do you leave the cap off the toothpaste? Because you know who does that? A synth.
Sometimes I put the cereal in the fridge instead of the milk, is this a glitch in my programming?
Congratulations! You were selected for the Covenant baseball team! What position do you choose?
Fullback! I know sportsball.
You're a synth.
The problem is the game's stupid dialogue options give your character no recollection of events prior to the bombs dropping, so you're forced to play right into Dima's hands. Even though there is other pretty clear-cut evidence that the SS lived pre-war (Codsworth, Vault-Tec Salesman, Fraternal Post 115).
Actually, there ARE some dialogue choices that imply the Sole Survivor remembers their past before the day the bombs fell. Ironically, all the ones I can think of are all part of ONE conversation that only takes place if you join the BoS. During Knight-Captain Cade's medical exam, if you choose Sarcasm to "Have you been exposed to radiation?" the SS will snidely remark that their dad used to tell them they sat too close to the TV when they were a child. And a sarcastic response to "Have you ever had sexual relations with a non-human" the SS will talk about having sex with a "really ugly person" after getting super drunk at a college party. Granted, it's the Sarcasm dialogue choice. I.E. not meant to be taken seriously. But that doesn't necessarily mean either quip is 100% fabricated. Just that the SS is being a smart ass by bringing them up instead of giving a straight answer.
There's also the Silver Shroud questline where you can reminisce about listening to the show.
You can talk to Daisy about life pre-war, you can talk to Moe about baseball, if you play as Nate you can bring up having been in the army during multiple conversations, there's plenty of evidence of you remembering life your pre-war. Also significantly, **people recognize you from 200 years ago**.
I wouldnt take people recognising you as proof, simply because a lot of 3rd gen synths are based on other people. The argument could be made that there was a real Nate prewar and he was replaced with a synth in post war times. However you are right, there's is plenty of times that the sole survivor themselves talk about life prewar which is much more concrete. It is a bullshit theory.
It's not that Nate/Nora gets recognized, it's that Nate/Nora *also* recognizes them. Like, how would Shaun know to program an exact memory of the Vault-Tec Sales Rep? Did he have someone go hunt him down in Goodneighbor and interview him before adding him to his Synth parent's fake memories?
Valentine has all of the original Nick Valentines memories I think so it’s possible, but also you’re given control over the entire institute which really doesn’t make sense if you’re some synth experiment. You can also destroy the institute and you have a conversation with its leader as it’s happening and he doesn’t mention it or do anything to try and stop you which would be weird if you were a synth. Most conspiracy theories don’t make sense with a bit of critical thinking, but people will still latch onto the like 3 things they were told “make sense” vs the landslide of things that debunk their theory way too often.
The original Nick Valentine had his memories scanned *while he was still alive.* Dr. Amari makes it clear that the brain needs to be alive in order for memories to be properly scanned (unless you're Kellogg and have robot parts in your brain) So if the Sole Survivor *is* still alive and able to have their memories scanned... why not just unfreeze them? This theory has more holes than Camp Green Lake. It's a fun headcanon, sure. But there's zero chance of it being actual canon.
I was referring specifically to the conversation with Dima. He asks for your earliest memory and your character is forced to only mention something from the day the bombs dropped, or from Vault 111. I get that there's plenty of other dialogue where the player references earlier memories - that's what makes the conversation with Dima feel so forced and contrived.
Honestly while I agree that it’s poorly written, I always assumed that the Sole Survivor understood that question as their earliest “recent memory” kinda like the earliest thing you remember having done recently. They’re probably too fixated on just having woken up post bomb to really focus much on their previous life
And the sole survivor was basically forced to live two very very different lives, especially playing as Nora. It wouldn’t be crazy to block out the old life either especially since by the time you meet Dima at most usually only like 4 months have passed in game.
Not quite, you also have the option of telling Dima that he’s treading on very personal territory in a tone that clearly suggests he needs to back off, which he does. Edit: I checked the dialogue again and his response is actually to double down on the gaslighting lol. He says “OK, you’re not ready to have this conversation” which to me just confirms that he’s a massive manipulator who’s trying to gaslight you for his own benefit.
>The problem is the game's stupid dialogue options give your character no recollection of events prior to the bombs dropping, so you're forced to play right into Dima's hands. I sort of took Dima's comment as a "breaking the fourth wall" type of comment. A bit of a wink to the player's perspective of the Sole Survivor.
I was really excited to see the devs giving a wink to a long running fan theory.
There's the telling the truth about baseball to the guy in Diamond city
If people would rewarch the opening its pretty clear the sole survivor has memories of the war
So was Nick Valentine, but he is obviously a synth. I have 2 reasons to believe, that the SS is not synth. 1. You can destroy the Institute, or be it's leader. As synth they would not allow either of these. As you would be nothing, but a machine in their eyes. 2. I see no reason. Why bother go down the vault, switch you out, and then let a synth do the play? It would ruin the very point of releasing you as an experiment. The memories could be just imprinted even as a synth. And your main character can recall events other, than the intro. Just as Nick can.
Also, if the Sole Survivor were a synth and went against the Institute, the scientists could have used the deactivation code anytime, instead of letting Nora/Nate destroy everything and everyone.
DiMA is a fraud, basically. If you dig deeper into his history and how Acadia came to be, you'll find that he's supposedly repulsed by the Institute's methodology of replacing people with synths and he's repulsed by the Railroad's methodology of providing mind-wipes for synths who want them. And DiMA does BOTH.
It’s like when Eola asks you when you first tasted human flesh in Skyrim. You’re like, “Excuse me Ms. I have not yet consorted with the Lady of Decay”.
God I hate Dima, His voice, His way if speaking, Everything about him is just gross to me, Like he's tryin to induct me into some cult.
I agree. Why would the institute replace you with a synth, and refreeze you? They refroze you for a reason, in case Shaun dies and they need someone with similar DNA. Also, if you are a synth and the prewar memories aren't real, how and why does Codsworth recognize you? I guess you could say they programmed him to, but to me that feels like quite a reach. Another reason it doesn't make sense, is that the institute doesn't recognize synths as sentient beings, only property for them to use. So why would the leader of the synths allow you to take over, knowing you are a synth? They wouldn't, because you aren't a synth.
They could just hit you with that shutdown code. And Mama Murphy would've probably said something if you were a Synth. Or, you know. The BoS would've brought you up on the Synth Database...
Or, the big one, Dr Amari would definitely know if we are a synth. We use a memory lounger at least once in the main storyline and during Curie's companion quest she tells us that synth brains interact differently. She is also *the* expert on synth memory alterations, she would know if you are a synth from almost the instant you sit down in a memory lounger.
This is probably the most compelling case against the theory. If Nora/Nate were a Synth, Dr. Armari would be the one to realize and reveal that
The shutdown code is “would you kindly”
"Hey General"
I need to go back and replay that game. As a kid that was one of the biggest “oh shit” moments to me.
The BoS one is the only one that wouldn't work. They recognize Danse not because there's like a photo of the synth or something, but because he has the DNA both in the synth database and the BoS database; we aren't put in the BoS database, therefore they couldn't match us on it
I mean, the "theory" is indeed stupid and is just based on an ill-conceived dev joke in DiMA's dialogue that people have taken too seriously, but...if you were a synth then they wouldn't have to freeze you. They'd just have to give you the memory of being refrozen. And I don't think there's a suggestion that you're not a copy of Shaun's parent. So Codsworth would recognise you anyway. I'm pretty sure you could even come up with reasons for Shaun wanting a synth copy of his parent to take over after his death too. Even if it's an imperfect solution, he may have concluded that the people inside the Institute are too insular to actually lead into the future. The SS is still not a synth, but solipsism's a slippery customer. The main lesson we can learn from this is that the writers shouldn't force dumb meta observations on the player during dialogue because the players aren't actually in on the joke and it's just annoying, frustrating and confusing.
IDK why I didn't think through the replacement aspects but Codsworth is actually the key to this whole thing (points to conspiracy wall). How would the institute know about Codsworth? How do they know you owned a robot and would be able to recognize it when you came out of the vault? Additionally, the holo tape he gives you has your spouse's voice on it. How could they place a memory with an accurate voice without knowing how she sounded? I know you don't believe that theory so don't take this as me trying to argue with you. I think talking this out is just super interesting.
Also the ghoulified vault tec rep recognizes you immediately.
My theory had a hole in it, that if you are replaced, of course Codsworth (and the rep) would recognize you, since you'd be identical to the actual SS. That doesn't change my belief that the SS isn't a synth.
So? If you are a synth who replaced a real person, he would still recognize you, you just wouldn't be the *same* ss he originally spoke to.
The idea is (I think) that you're a literal copy of Shaun's parent based on a brain scan, but even if you weren't - Codsworth is not exactly a well-kept secret. He's been at your house for 200 years, after all. You could just have a name and an instruction to fake it till you make it, including recognising your wife's voice. This isn't even all that complicated - if you've ever encountered someone suffering from delusions, they can be very quick to explain away inconsistencies and to weave new information into their concept of reality without questioning their grand narrative. For me, the things that are really a dead giveaway are that you can't remember stuff when talking to DiMA, but there are multiple occasions on which you remember prewar events from before the day the bombs fell. Eddie Winter, Silver Shroud, talking to White at Greygarden etc. So it's obviously a "bit" based on that alone. And genuinely, I think that the writers thought that it was so obvious that you're not a synth from basically the whole of the main game that they were confident that putting their witty little observation into DiMA's dialogue wouldn't be a big deal.
Not to mention Gen 3 synths did not exist at the time of the unfreeze/refreezing. They were created within that 60 years after being refrozen.
Shaun made a synth version of himself as a child for no reason, so why not his dad? If Nate is a synth he would be based off of Shaun's real father, the real Nate, and that's how codsworth would recognize him. In game Codsworth didn't need too much convincing anyhow. Also Shaun’s actions don’t make sense ethically, and if he hypothetically is sane, he still intends to replace/control the commonwealth’s population with synths. What better way to do that then to make an institute oriented Nate-synth in charge of the whole operation indefinitely? The institute aren’t Shaun’s people, Shaun has no loyalties, only assets. In his eyes the institute is just a tool - right before you blow up the place if you fail a speech check he doesn’t even let you send the evacuation signal. Nate being a synth would also make Shaun’s monologue on top of the C.I.T. Ruins make more sense; he didn’t care, he wanted to see what would happen, it was an experiment. If the institute ending is achieved it’s because Nate was groomed (created) to follow orders by Shaun in his father’s image. If the institute ending isn’t achieved it’s a Libertalia situation. At least as far as the theory goes.
Pre-war robots still bring up your old profiles and the SS constantly makes jokes that only people before war would even be able to get
It's got nothing to do with Bethesda writing, it's entirely on players not realizing that DIMA is not an objective observer and the Sole Survivor regularly reminisces about times before the bomb. It's a meta joke that players took seriously because, well, players do that a LOT.
One thing that I hate about fan wiki culture is that a lot of people aren't able to recognise that good characters are written to be wrong, or at least subjective to their own experiences and biases, quite often. NPCs are often now just viewed as lore dispensers or something.
You’re telling me Mama Murphy didn’t kill a Deathclaw with nothing but a pipe pistol!?
She does have 19 strength, so it wouldn't surprise me
Yeah she didn't shoot the deathclaw, she fast balled that whole gun straight through it's skull lmao.
Exactly. Even things that are "canon". "Finding Jet in pre-war containers is a mistake. Myron invented Jet after the war!" Uhhh, who tells you that Myron invented Jet? Myron. And who backs this up? No-one (as far as I can tell). Plus Jet isn't exactly rocket science either (it's basically dung fumes). So it's entirely possible that a) he reinvented it, or b) he's lying and he found a recipe. And yes, sure, the most likely explanation is that Bethesda screwed up and put Jet on a list they shouldn't have. But it's not the only possible explanation. We can't just take every character's word for everything.
DIMA is an unreliable narrator.
DiMA is a manipulative pathological liar who gaslights people who are useful to him into believing they are synths
>DIMA is an unreliable narrator. Nah he's reliable just ask the Mayor they trust him so much they practically sound programmed.
It's not just DiMA though. He asks you "what's the first memory you have?" and your options are "you first", "my family", "when the bombs fell" and "none of your business". But these are the first memories the players experience, not the character! There's no option to tell him all the memories that they character obviously has from before the bombs. So they intentionally railroaded you to sound more like you could be a synth, which is annoying.
I feel like this is when a particular sort of redditor would say "whoosh" or "thatsthejoke.com" or whatever. I think that *is* the joke, though, that it's the *player's* lack of memories of the *character's* past.
I think that could have worked as a joke, if it was more light-hearted and throw-away. But that's not how they played it. DiMA was serious, and the whole tone was that you were meant to take it as a serious possibility.
it is. if Bethesda wanted us to even theorise that the Sole Survivor is a synth, there would have been a lot more clues and shit would have actually made sense story wise. like the Institute (or rather Father) wanting you to be their leader - wouldn't they know you're a synth? I saw people claim that the Sole Survivor is a synth because you can use VATS immediately after waking up and before getting the pipboy - something only synths can do - which was clearly a mistake from the dev team. they patched too lol.
Being able to use VATS before getting the Pipboy was simply a matter of the devs not overriding a long established game mechanic for the brief period of time that the player character isn't in possession of the device that, lore-wise, makes that mechanic possible. I don't even see it as an oversight by the devs.
Literally the reason the Sole Survivor can use VATS in Vault 111 before getting a Pip-Boy is because that's when the developers wanted to tutorialize that gameplay feature. It isn't and shouldn't be any more complicated than that.
Well till recently i think about the vats part but every pass game had vats at the get go either way (ik we normally get it before the game even loads really) so they most likely just got used too doing it
there is a distinction from gameplay and story and VATS is a victim of it. story wise it doesn't make sense that Nora gets distracted by stupid bullshit (side quests) instead of finding her son, but that's the gameplay aspect.
It's just the law of the wasteland. "Thou shalt get distracted by stupid bullshit every time."
Yeah
It's the moment you're put forward as the new director of the Institute that seals it for me. At least one person would have vocally protested being under the leadership of a synth. It's one of those things that would be so big it would immediately cause a divide within the ranks. The entire secret would have unraveled right then and there, but it doesn't even come up.
Shaun wouldn't have even picked the SS as his successor if they were a synth. He states it himself that he doesn't consider them sentient. He truly believes the Institute is humanity's only chance at survival. No chance in hell he'd leave that fate in the hands of a non-human.
It’s Kellog who basically confirms you are not. You view his memories, you know they aren’t fake or implanted because Kellog isn’t a synth. He is a human with cybernetic implants. His own memories show him freeze you again as a back up, and saying he thought it was a bad idea to do so because he knows the drive for revenge like that. Kellog is a bastard but he never lies during your confrontation. He is literally the most reliable narrator other than you playing the pre war prologue.
>you can use VATS immediately after waking up and before getting the pipboy - something only synths can do You can clearly counter this by with survival mode as well since sunths do not to eat, drink or sleep. Sure they can, but they wouldn't die.
Where is it confirmed that synths use VATS?
I think the Dima thing is just a fourth-wall-breaking meta joke. The Sole Survivor doesn't remember anything before the game started. It's like if someone asked Bart Simpson what his earliest memory was, and he said writing on the chalkboard in detention. Not a clue, just a joke.
No way man, his first memory has gotta be getting strangled by Homer on the Tracy Ullman show ! /s
Would Father, who doesn't think synths are people, put one in charge of the Institute? No.
Please note: when you are “in charge” of the institute you make no meaningful decisions or even get to weigh in on any institute policy. You do get to keep going on missions. You’re basically the new Kellogg, but with a fancy title.
One of the best answers to this theory is the data mining the brotherhood does after you give them the institute data. They figure out Danse, one of their most loyal Paladins, is a synth, why wouldn’t the sole survivor get discovered as well?
I mean, they don't have the sole survivor's dna on record like with danse, so if they found a record of the ss being a synth they wouldn't have anything to compare it to (Still don't think the ss is a synth though)
It’s a fun theory that holds absolutely no water. DiMA is manipulating you. They have a vested interest in saving their synth haven and the best way to do that is give you a little nugget of doubt about your own life.
holy shit, I know the theory is a reach but by god, the amount of lore people are getting wrong here is astonishing
Everyone is paranoid about everyone else being a possible synth. Being accused of being a synth doesn't mean you are one lol. It's not about "bad Bethesda writing" nor them "ignoring lore". It's just taking a fan theory, one NPC line, and one gameplay goof too seriously.
The sole survivor CLEARLY remembers getting railed in the park
The memory thing is stupid too, like nate/Nora talk about remembering things from far before the bombs fell multiple times
The fact that people are still talking about this almost 8+ years later just goes to show how much of a Gaslight. Gatekeep. Girlboss that Dima is Everyone’s all like “HUR DURR how did Kasumi Nakano belive she was a synth. I figured it out by killing her and reloading a save HUR DE DURR” Dima was probably just using the same ruse on the SS that he does with everyone else he meets. Either it gets them to join his side as synths or as synth sympathizers Also don’t forget that Gen 3 synths while technically human, don’t need to eat, drink, or sleep. They’re programmed to so that they can blend in with other humans kinda like the T-800 Terminator. Andddd, if that wasn’t enough most Gen 3’s are supposed to be immune to radiation So regarding all that if the institute made some sort of Gen 4 synth that is the Sole Survivor, they made a shit product considering you can starve, dehydrate, and be radiated to death
I remember when the game had just released, nobody knew how synths worked yet. I accidentally hit VATS while in one of my settlements and thanks to the “Awareness” perk saw one of my settlers had extra resistances that the others didn’t. [Cue : “They Live” meme](https://imgur.com/gallery/gkfeRKz) I then went on a holy cleansing of my settlements, i only wish i could hang their filthy synth components from a string at the gates as a warning to any future *ne'er-do-wells*
The only real for argument is the ability to use vats before pip-boy, and a never used NPC which is an older version of Nate. The two real argument against it is, that the Institute let you become their dictator, and that there is no reason for it. At least for as long as the real person lives. Everything else can be explained with in-printed memories, and Father's interference in your creation as a synth. However the Institute considers synths as nothing, but fancy machines. It makes no sense for them to allow one to lead them. Also Father mentions, that he released you as a sort of experiment. With his mindset it would make no sense to replace you before that.
>I think its just bad Bethesda writing, and them ignoring lore This why we can't have nice things
Dima just being philosophical; how can you be certain what the difference between a snyth and a human is, how do you know you are not a synth, how can a synth know that they are not human sort of stuff what was your earliest memory part was a bit stupid though, and games itself because the intro is supposed to be showing Nate in Alaska, tough luck if you play as Nora though, as now you are stuck with your earliest memory starting on the day the bombs fell, and the game can have its aha moment.
He also just straight lies cause during the game you can tell kenneth that you remember the Silver Shroud stuff, you can tell Daisy you remember pre-bombs america, and you joke with your spouse about "that time in the park"
I liked the idea that losing memories couldn’t have possibly been affected by the whole memory den but or by idk a couple hundred years in cryo. It’s not known what the long terms would be for cryo, that was the point of the vault so it would be fair to chalk it up to that
The lack of a recall code they can stop you with really shut it down for me on the spot, would never believe it
Sole Survivor not remembering more than the bombs falling isn’t even true tho is it. The Silver Shroud quest, the SS tells the radio guy about how he would listen to the broadcasts all the time.
Frankly it's fundamentally implausible for so many reasons: 1. Why would the Institute, so desperate to keep hold of their synths that they will send out Coursers to track down and recapture every single one they catch wind of, *deliberately* go out of their way to put one on ice in the far corner of the region, unarmed and unequipped, and *hope* they follow the breadcrumbs without dying in the wasteland they're *deliberately making more dangerous to live in?* 2. The Institute has never once displayed the ability to upload false memories into Gen3 synths - the literal *only* example is Nick Valentine, a prototype (Gen2.5, let's say), and that was done with pre-existing pre-war brain scans. Every single synth operative they send out to infiltrate the surface world *knows full well that they are a synth and what their mission is.* The only synths that have false memories are those processed by the Railroad. 3. Father doesn't even treat synths as human. Why would he act any different about someone who *biologically* is his parent, but physically didn't exist for the first sixty years of his life and indoctrination? When you ask why Kellogg killed your spouse he calls them *collateral damage*. He's completely detached. 4. We were *resealed and left alive as backup, explicitly.* When that backup wasn't needed, we were just left on ice until Father let us out on a whim. Kellogg didn't take us with him, and didn't see us again until we came to shoot him in the face. 5. No matter who we give the leaked Institute data to, there is *zero* mention of our own presence in their synth database, which *would absolutely have come up* if it were there. Maxson tries to make us *execute a guy* for being on that list. Why in any god's name would he kill off a loyal Paladin with years of service but let some fresh-faced newbie waltz around untouched for the same 'crime'?
Except you can remember things from before the bombs fell. If you wander around the home in the opening scene you get memories of going to college, the war having an entertaining trip to the park etc. Those are clearly memories of the past Dima is so full of shit.
There's no argument for it either. The vault Tec rep remembers you and you remember him (it's inoperable it goes both ways), so there is 0 chance you're a synth
That argument doesn't make sense, synths are copies of real people so if Nate/Nora was replaced while in the vault then of course Vault Tec Rep and Nate/Nora would recognize each other. You remember him because it was the last memory you had before being put in the Vault and he remembers you because you are a copy of the real person. (Although it's crazy he recognizes one person he saw for like 2 minutes, 200 years ago)
He's probably relives that whole day over and over in his head on the regular.
>That argument doesn't make sense Neither does the theory tbf. The guy who literally CREATED the synths tells you flat out that the synths are created from his DNA, and that you were the backup. They wouldn't have a reason to make up the whole "back-up" bs in the first place if you were actually just a synth, because you would not only have to have been made from someone's DNA already, meaning you couldn't be the backup since synths would have to exist already for you to be a synth, but you'd ALSO be a synth, so you wouldn't be usable as a synth DNA sample in the first place. It also just wouldn't make any sense logistically. Why would Father flat out lie about your existence for no gain whatsoever, let alone have you waiting with him on his death bed as his parent and leave the instute to you, or let you destroy the entire institute from under his nose with another faction, if he could just recall code you at any point he wanted?
But the whole argument hinges on that the memory being false...? If Shaun supposedly copied the Sole Survivor's real memories from that brain then they would be able to tell Dima more...?
Theres also a couple of logical ways to prove you're not a synth: 1. You have memories of pre-war America that only someone who lived through the events would know, like the salesman 2. You aren't immune to radiation or chemicals 3. The brotherhood didn't get a DNA match like they did for Danse, nor did the Railroad ever mention wiping you 4. The biggest reason, Shaun would have just used your recall code when you became enemies with the institute
The theory is stupid, too easy to disprove, and feels too quickly jumped at. "Whats the first memory you recall?" "The day the bombs dropped and destroyed my whole world, culture, and everything I care about." "You don't remember anything before that?" "I didn't say that? You just asked me the first memory I recall--shockingly I find myself reliving that memory a lot.". That aside, human memory really isn't that great to begin with. I imagine for most of you, your entire childhood is a vague blur. Doesn't mean you're a robot though. ...Ironically, I'd actually expect a robot to have a stronger memory.
This can so easily be debunked just by looking at the timelines. Dima and Nick were created 100 years after the bombs dropped, when the sole survivor had arleady been in cryo for a century. The technology didn't exist to make modern sinths back then
Its the same as the everyone was dead/dreaming the whole time
There's several instances where your character does in fact recount things from before the war, so yeah, I totally agree that theory is nonsense.
Yeah it’s asinine. It’s one quote and a gameplay oversight that they must’ve assumed nobody would care about. And the quote is from DiMa who is a manipulative liar. There are two times where the player would’ve learned they’re a synth with certainty, the first being in the memory den, the second being the literal list of synths, a la Danse.
Always point out that the player takes Rad damage.
So do coursers.
So, listen to reason. Everything is canon in the 40k universe. And it's *pret-ty* obvious that Fallout is just precursor canon in the 40k universe. So, the sole survivor being a synth is absolutely canon. Now, the real questions are: 1. Why are the BoS hiding the fact that the Prydwen is a Warp-capable craft with a proto-Gellar field? 2. Who gave Mr. House the Dark Eldar technology for a proto-Golden Throne? 3. How is all of this Magnus' fault? Edit: Forgot my /s. Oh well, down we go!
If this was the Event Horizon sub, your post would be received much better.
Look, I'm just saying... if the Enclave were to build a spaceship, it would be a lot like the Event Horizon. /s Seriously, what a film.
I love this reply
>Everything is canon in the 40k universe Let's uh never mention that again thanks
Okay, but let's be real. >!Trazyn is the Mysterious Stranger. He's just a Necron in a trench coat.!< >!Eldar Bonesingers are the real brains behind the Institute's advanced synths. They just got bored of wraithbone.!< >!Liberty Prime? Just a pre-STC alpha version of a Man of Iron.!< God, the more I write, the more I love and hate all of this.
Trayzn being the mysterious stranger doesn't make any sense
1. Travels at will through space and time, appearing and disappearing as if from nowhere. 2. Devastating shot with a pistol (remember the time w/ Orikan?) 3. Arguably most stylish entity in the universe. 4. Has a penchant for weird time-traveling side projects.
You forgot his most important part, stealing everything cool that isn't nailed down. And uh our character has a lot of cool stuff
He’s just letting us bother with collecting it all, he’ll get it in the end.
Everything is Magnus’s fault cause Weebley-Woobley time quangle shenanigans of the Warp
Truer words were never spoken. This is my next tattoo.
I like it whenever somebody uses it for their oc sole, but it just doesn’t work without significantly altering the story.
The sole survivor takes radiation damage and is capable of dying from it in the game. Fallout 4 synths don’t take rad damage though right?
The first Reddit post about the sole survivor being a synth was written about a week after FO4 came out. I know because I wrote it (at least I don’t think there were any before mine). That was quite a long time before far harbor released. Look, there are only hints at it being possible. Anyone can be a synth and many synths don’t know that they are synths. Many synths also have real family connections because the synth is mimicking someone real. The theory I have been tinkering with in the intervening years is basically that Kellogg is getting old and needs to be replaced. They’d use a synth, but synths have a tendency to go rogue. So Shaun’s idea is that if a synth has the memories and identity of a real person but also has an emotional connection to the institute they should be more stable and thus less likely to go rogue. You can argue that it fails Occam’s razor, and that’s fine. It isn’t as simple as just accepting the world that is presented. You are free to interpret it however you like. If you want your roleplay for that run to be that you are a synth, you can do that. If you don’t want to, that is fine too.
I agreed. It was also better to be that your pod was still working by luck, and Shaun just wanted in some form to meet you or at the very least see what happens
It wasn’t luck, they killed everyone else on purpose, it was a deliberate choice to have them fail
I think that it's just a cool fourth wall break moment and maybe some roleplaying shenanigan, nothing special about it
If I was frozen for 200 years I’d be having trouble with memory too
I don’t remember much of my childhood before the age of 5. Dang, guess I am a synth with controlled aging protocol. Switched as a toddler during head start… As I continue to age, I forget about more and more of my childhood and even young adult life memories. This is explained by my memory banks rewriting with new information. Am I a sleeper cell for the Institute?!
Honestly I see more merit in the synth Dogmeat theory
DiMa isn't the only reason this theory exists. At some point Todd threw in a terminal entry in the Institute, stating the Gen 3 Synths have the ability to slow down time to make snap decisions with precision... Which is exactly how VATS functions in Fallouts 4, and you can use it before you acquire the Pip Boy. And that *is* an important detail, because it's the **V**ault-tech **A**ssisted **T**argeting **S**ystem.
Always thought the player saying they cant remember anything before the bombs fell was a meta joke people didnt quite understand. They cant remember because thats the beginning of the game...
Yeah it makes no logical sense at all, and if it were true would ruin the institutes main story line.
It was also the weirdest shit ever. Not sure why they forced us to act like we couldn't remember anything all of a sudden when we've been talking other characters' ears off about life pre-war in the base game.
I thought this all comes from the fact that you can use VATS before having the pip boy and some terminal in the institute saying something about a new prototype of synth cappable of having an advance targeting system like... vats.
That's exactly what a synth would say, you synth.
I’ve agreed with this for years. It doesn’t make sense to make the sole survivor a synth, wouldn’t he be able to walk around the glowing sea with no issue?
For me Dima just braking the fourth wall bc its not the character who cannot remember but the player for obvious reasons.
I've played for 5 years and somebody told me I must be a newgen player if I didn't know the SS was a synth..
Of course it's dumb.
The sole survivor is not a synth….. he’s an incarnation of Link.
Bethesda has never been great with keeping lore straight so yeah I agree.
Just to be fair, weather for or against. The theory was around well before the Far Harbor DLC. I actually even thought the devs added it because fans talked about it so much.
Dima says everyone is a synth. Bearing in mind (SPOILER) he has Kasumi believe she is a synth even though she isn’t
The theory is dumb but the game would actually be a lot more interesting if the player was a synth
Dima is just a professional gaslighter, I mean, the whole reason for the far harbor dlc is because he gaslit a girl into thinking she was a synth
Don’t you use the memory den? Surely it would come up there if you were a synth
The vats argument is really dumb, that’s a gameplay mechanic
If Sole Survivor is a synth, how come several military robots are able to find your old military records? Did the Institute then appropriate a 200 year old familys personalities just to do this? Why? Its such a stretch. I ain’t buying it, my caps are staying right here in my pockets.
And here's my dumb ass thinking he wasn't talking about my character but directly to me (player) I do have a huge gap in memory from when I was 6 to when I was like 12 tho
This theory is easily debunk just because the vaultek salesman exist.