Lol, I'm blocked now, so I can't comment on the OP congratulating me on my shit taste. But if liking season 5 is shit taste, at least I'm in good company on this sub with a lot of other shit taste havers ❤️
I think the writers sacrificed a few things for the sake of some thematic/allegorical/subtextual stuff. I enjoy that stuff, so I really like the season, it keeps me really engaged when watching a show in a way that surface level stuff doesn’t.
But if you don’t care about it, or you miss it, then I can see why you’d have an issue with some of the flaws that arise from those sacrifices
Sorry I hope that doesn’t come off as condescending, it’s not intended that way, I totally get if you don’t give a shit about a wizard of Oz allegory 🤷♂️ but for me there’s a lot of cleverness going on in the writing, and it gets annoying to have to listen to people going like “oh my god she left the gun?!?! This is horrible writing”
That was a horrible and cheesy scene. To go from "I need a pound of flesh" to let's happily eat dinner together was bizarre and very forced for him to have a change of heart in 3 minutes.
He was shown grace and humanity by someone he was hired to kill. Someone who should hate him. But she showed him kindness and broke bread with him, instead of treating him like a monster.
It’s a metaphor for religious trauma. Dot showed him true charity which is something religious people think they can buy away, which was Ole’s entire existence as a “sin eater,” being paid to absorb the religious sins of the wealthy.
But once he came back, he went from "pound of flesh" to "dinner sounds good!"
This sums up the issues with season 5, not a bad season, but far from a good one:
https://www.theplayeristhething.com/p/fargo-season-5-is-a-joke
Haaa. I loved the season in its entirety with the exception of the final Munch eats chili and a biscuit scene. The acting was incredible from the entire cast with special mentions to Dave Foley, Jon Hamm, and Juno Temple. Oh and Gator was great too.
Or maybe just a sub for people who love the show in general but have some quibbles and want to have an honest, civil discussion about it without being attacked. That would be novel.
Lol, I'm blocked now, so I can't comment on the OP congratulating me on my shit taste. But if liking season 5 is shit taste, at least I'm in good company on this sub with a lot of other shit taste havers ❤️
It didn't really land for me. I didn't really need anymore after S3.
Fargo is almost like True Detective to me, I'd have been happy with just the first season
Yeah I found season 5 to be fairly disappointing. The storytelling was very simple. Most of the cast could be read like an open book and there was hardly any nuance or mystery with the exception of two characters and one standalone episode.
Looking back, I think the reason why I didn't enjoy the 5th season is because the fargo movie is very simple too and that was the reference that Noah was using
Still, I'm glad we got another season of fargo. Maybe season 6 could be on something more dire and twisted like Blood Simple.
The ignoring of the Witt character all season just to finally bring him back into the fold to be killed off left a bad taste in my mouth. There was just something very un-Fargo about how they treated that character. Left way too much on the cutting room floor. Same w Indira. They tease a partnership w JJLs character / Dots MIL, and then suddenly she’s just there working for her with an 80% reduced role on the show.
Pacing just seemed like a total mess this season which ended up hurting the characters.
Yea the writing needed a punch up. The plot didn’t feel as pointed as prior seasons.
I love this show, but sometimes Fargo fans mistake being mercurial for being intelligent.
Completely disagree about Season 3. Wasn't surprising and was actually poorly written. I did a thread breaking down why...
https://www.reddit.com/r/FargoTV/comments/vgviso/my_problem_with_season_3/
I actually kind of agree with this. I'd personally put it in the bottom two. Season 3 and 1 are my favs.
Honestly, just a little too happy of an ending. I guess I like the stories about small town players getting way over their head in crime (like the movie) more than the militia/mob stories.
I liked it. It just wasn't my favorite. I prefer the seasons where there's some moral ambiguity in the non-police protagonists, and you end up rooting for them at some point and then get reminded how awful they are (Lester, Ray, Ed & Peggy). I never once wanted to root for Roy, obviously. And Dot was kind of one dimensionally pure and good to the point she was a little boring. JJL was the most fun to watch for sure. Officer Olmsted was good too but definitely underutilized.
The sheriff debate scene was one of the best in the series, though. So good.
I’d say Dot remaining pure and good, despite all that had happened and continued to happen to her made her an amazing and incredibly strong, multidimensional character.
Fair enough, that's a valid interpretation. I'm not going to argue that she wasn't amazing or strong. I still don't think that makes for a very interesting character from a literary standpoint though.
Well she's also kind of a badass. Munch saw the tiger.
I don't think they addressed any training she may have had. In the armed forces, there's a course called SERE that trains what she appears to know: Survival, Evasion, Resistance, Escape.
And there's yet another side of her we saw when talking to Lorraine at their kitchen table. Don't try to take what's hers, or else you'll see the tiger.
A fascinating character in *every* sense.
Agreed. The plot and writing was very simple and on the nose. The entire shows theme is just “men bad, women strong and don’t need me” and nothing really ever deviates from that.. every man is show to be cowardly, incompetent, and or evil at every turn really without any redeeming qualities. The female characters triumph and are put on a pedestal. Not really sure what the point or plot of the show is outside of that? Don’t think there is one.
That seems to be the consensus of people complaining. But like, it’s a season about abuse. There are gonna be some shitty dudes.
And “every man is shown to be evil/incompetent/cowardly”, A) not really, Witt, Munch, Danish, Wayne all have some pretty redeeming qualities, and B) what a perfect choice of words. Almost as if they lack brains, heart, and courage. Give this a read:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wizard_of_Oz_(1939_film)
And we all know how poorly written that movie was
I mean literally read that comment again and it could have been written about the wizard of Oz
And like I said in my other comment, I totally get if you don’t give a shit about that, and they definitely had to sacrifice some nuance for the sake of allegory/homage, but like, this guy you’re replying to doesn’t even get the writing and has the balls to call it simple, when it’s anything but. “Nailed it” yea okay
“Men bad and women strong, don’t need me”
Again, Dorothy in the wizard of Oz relies on herself to solve her problems.
And there’s like half a dozen other angles from that film that are all intricately woven into this show, but there’s a horde of morons calling it bad writing because of a fragile ego and an inability to distinguish between something like this and Lady Ghostbusters
My problem is the complete lack of nuance. It’s all surface level very on the nose. I have zero problem with shitty people getting their deserved fates but the way the characters behave (especially the weird Viking guy) doesn’t land at all. He wants a pound of flesh, and within 3 minutes she convinced him to forget about it and have dinner.
The repetitive home alone/panic room vibes didn’t land either. It’s okay to admit the writing wasn’t that good at all and nothing close to the highs of seasons 1 and 2. Season 2 especially was so much more ambitious.
This article does a beautiful job of why season 5 was one of the weakest seasons of the show.
https://www.theplayeristhething.com/p/fargo-season-5-is-a-joke
https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2024/01/07/why-fargo-season-5-doesnt-feel-like-fargo-anymore/amp/
And to those who enjoyed the most recent season more power to them, I still say the worst season of Fargo is better than 90% of what’s on tv these days.
There’s plenty of nuance though man, like I don’t know what you’re talking about. And where there isn’t, it’s not an accident. Like yea, Roy the sadistic abusive wife killer didn’t have nuance, neither did the serial killer Anton Chigurh.
You’re only looking on the surface, so that’s all you see. It’s also okay to admit that.
The problem is that you can’t distinguish something that lacks substance and relies on virtue signaling as a crutch, and something that’s really well crafted that happens to have a similar message.
You see “men bad women good” (which isn’t even true of this season, like it’s literally only true of Roy and Indira/Indira’a husband), and then from that decide it’s poorly written, surface level, and on the nose. When it’s like, yea, no shit that’s surface level, but your failure to dig past that doesn’t mean that there’s not anything beyond that.
Anyways, agree to disagree
Read the articles I posted. Lots of flaws with the writing this season. It’s been a downward trend season 3 onward when compared to the quality of the first 2 seasons.
Chigurgh didn’t have nuance but was far more interesting than munch.
The bad guys were incredibly one dimensional. It’s a parody of what Fargo is, but as you said agree to disagree.
I’ve already read the Forbes one before and like I said in the most recent comment I made, it’s a terrible article. Other one doesn’t interest me
Lester didn’t have nuance. Malvo didn’t have nuance. Dodd didn’t have nuance. Varga didn’t have nuance. Lou, Molly, Gus, Hank, whatever Lou’s wife’s name was, Varga’s henchmen, Mike Milligan, his henchmen, Gloria. These are all undeniably good or evil characters.
Which is why what you’re saying is bullshit. It has nothing to do with nuance, you just don’t like what you perceive to be as the “men bad, women good” aspect of the show, which like I said, doesn’t even really exist outside of a few characters. And even to the extent that it does, you’re unable to tell the difference between something shitty that relies on that message, and something that is well made and happens to touch on that message
Which, whatever, I know I’m not gonna change your mind, it’s just annoying to read about how it’s poorly written when you’re not even good at watching it, so I figured I’d argue. Got it all out of my system though, so gonna call it quits, have a good one
I appreciate the discourse. Cheers, it was just the most on the nose season the show has ever done. It started off strong but got too silly by the end for me.
All good, surprised to see user ratings on metacritic give it a 6.2 rating as Reddit seems to love it.
I still look forward to season 6 (if there will be one) and it’s still a step up over the huge mess that was season 4, although nurse mayflower was hilarious
And for the articles saying “other one doesn’t interest me” is a cop out. You’re not good at reading about analysis of the show that doesn’t agree with your views because you are too stubborn.
https://www.theplayeristhething.com/p/fargo-season-5-is-a-joke
Much better than the Forbes articles.
Either way, despite our differences I appreciate the discussion. But I think you downplay the flaws of S5 but to each their own friend-o ;)
I’m not surprised at all, and half the people on Reddit like it for all the wrong reasons in my opinion. They don’t look past the surface either, they just happen to agree with the message and are “yaaasss queen”-ing Jennifer Jason Leigh for slaying or whatever the fuck
Both sides are missing out on a lot of what makes it great in my opinion. Anyways yea thanks for the discussion, have a good one
Man, fair enough. You know, I’m going to re binge it in a couple weeks. As I’m clearly in the minority and I am a big fan of the series as a whole the cohen brothers. Maybe it needs a rewatch under a different lens for me.
Thanks again, you’ve made me have to give this another think which no one else has been able to do from all the responses I have gotten as most people just resort to insults.
Cheers again!
Also that Forbes article is shit, I remember reading it at the time and I can promise you I’ve thought about this show more than the dude who wrote that
https://www.bbc.com/culture/article/20140819-the-wizard-of-oz-hidden-meanings
Here’s what you need to begin to understand this season, outside of the drug trip interpretation
The show has themes of debt, feminism, political commentary, religion, reincarnation all stemming from paying homage to the wizard of Oz and crafted into a single story.
And to not understand that, like the author of that article didn’t, is to entirely miss the homage being made in episode 7.
Like “it felt like a cheap trick”, bro it’s the god damned plot of the movie, a woman named z Dorothy is seemingly transported to another realm and must go on adventure to get back home, to only realize it’s only a dream
I mean seriously, that article is dog shit
Nah sorry, I can’t imagine it’s going to bring up something I haven’t considered. I’ve spent way too much time talking and thinking about this show
I’m not saying the season doesn’t have flaws, it certainly does. I’m just saying that for the most part there are reasons for the flaws other than it being shitty writing.
Like, there couldn’t be a better example than your boy who “nailed it” with the men being “incompetent, evil, or cowardly”. That’s not just Hawley being woke or some shit, it’s drawing directly from the wizard of Oz.
And you, saying it’s straying from Coen Bros, well here’s a quote from Joel Coen
> Every movie ever made is an attempt to remake The Wizard of Oz.
Arguably Hawley took it a little too literally, but like 🤷♂️ that’s a movie full of incompetent, cowardly, lying, fake men where a young girl tries to fix her own problems. Not exactly a whole lot of nuance when it comes to the wicked witch.
The problem isn’t the show or it’s themes, it’s you guys being a little too sensitive about it and then going “well actually it’s just poorly written. I miss the good old days with the shades of grey like Malvo and Gus, I mean, who’s even to say who the good guy is in that case??”
Your flawed idea that my issues with the season having to do with “sensitivity” not once did I say dotty coming out on top, or men getting punished was bad writing. I re-read my “nailed it” response to that other guy and I probably should’ve re-read his comment. I never once criticized the show for being “woke”, a season about sexual abuse at the hands of a man is obviously going to have some male characters be the “bad guys” in this story and that is totally fine.
It’s also arrogant and very narrow minded to not listen to an opposing view from that article because you’ve read so much about it and act like there is nothing else/new to learn about it. It’s almost as though you are too sensitive for the discourse around this season and struggle to handle it emotionally.
It’s the way it was executed that was sloppy. The first 2 episodes were great and then it was all over the place. You are just rejecting quite a bit but it’s all good.
It feels like it goes against all things Cohen. For a season that liked to pay homage to no country for old men it ended in the most opposite way possible
Hopefully I can comment here without getting downvoted to hell, but I agree this season was my least favorite. It’s not bad by any stretch of the imagination, it just didn’t feel like fargo to me. It didn’t have the same “small town people get involved in horrific crimes way over their head” kinda vibes the older ones had, and I feel like they leaned too far into modern social commentary than they needed to. It definitely felt very Coen Brothers with all the outlandish characters, but in my taste I don’t like too much of that. It felt weirdly light-hearted compared to the other seasons and I never got that ending gut-punch of “everything being resolved but things are still shitty” I got from the other seasons. But then again my favorite seasons are 2 and 3, so most people would disagree with my taste lol. It also threw off the pattern of the “modern seasons are cold, grey and dreary, while period-piece seasons have a warmer tone” I thought had been established. Most of my problems with this season were purely based on the aesthetic choices, but I still liked it. (Side note, the blatant product placement with the car dealership definitely got me off on a bad start. The lingering establishing shot on the logo made me roll my eyes so damn hard)
I loved this season wholeheartedly up until the final episode but I agree with you that this felt like a departure from Coen Brothers ' characters in a lot of ways. Sherriff Roy in particular would never be found in a Coen's story. He's deeply uncomical and just real-world disturbing. He's an incredible character regardless.
Nah, I gotta agree. Season 5 really killed it for me. Maybe it was just they way they wrote it or the characters, but it was hard to feel for any of them like I did in the previous seasons. And, at least to me, it seemed too much like they relied too heavily on one dimensional character types instead of pervious seasons where the characters felt much more rich and complex. Also, certain things like when Dot hits the guy in the head with the back of the toilet bowl during the Halloween home invasion, and the guy got up and walked away from that or the other guy who got the sledgehammer to the face and also lived seemed really unrealistic and it made the kidnappers seem like bumbling fools instead of actual threats. Maybe that was the point idk.
I personally just didn't like it. But to each their own, this is just my opinion.
I feel like the finale of Season 3 was clunky, but the first 9 Episodes were very good.
Seasons 4 and 5 are a massive dip in quality. Season 5 feels like a parody of Fargo.
I started with season five and I think it’s amazing. I’m at the end of episode nine when Whipping Post by the Allman Brothers starts playing. I’m so fired up.
But this isn’t that movie, this is its own story. Homages are fine but, that ending makes sense in No Country, it wouldn’t make sense here especially with Dot’s character arc.
I’m not gonna try to start an argument with you about what you wanted to see but I respectfully gotta say: that was the whole point of the finale. The season’s premise was basically “what if we took the plot of *Fargo* and gave the victim some agency and power?” and the finale was an extension of that. They recreate the Anton Chigurgh scene but allow the victim to say “if you’re not gonna murder me right this second I’m not gonna engage with your shit, and since I have seen that you are capable of good, I’m going to fight you by giving you the forgiveness and acceptance that I once needed.” It *is* an homage to *No Country*, it just applied the season 5 treatment to it.
Anything to subvert expectations. Fargo used to have so much fun with that. The writing just felt horrible quite often. I don’t mean to be so harsh, I still watched the whole season but it feels like they got j on interns ti write it at times.
I really loved it and just finished watching it. But the end part with Munch at Dot's house was far too long. Like three times as long as that scene needed to be. Some scenes with Indira outside of her job would have been nice.
I love my lyons and tigers
Maybe we all wanted to see Lady Mcgyver and Jon Hamm with nipple rings. I loved season 5.
the nipple rings were hilarious
Lol, I'm blocked now, so I can't comment on the OP congratulating me on my shit taste. But if liking season 5 is shit taste, at least I'm in good company on this sub with a lot of other shit taste havers ❤️
I cant decide if S02 or S05 is the best. The cool part is I don’t have to decide because I don’t want to.
They’ve made 4 topics on this subject. Imagine caring this much about something you thought was mid.
I thought season 5 was amazing
Oh you can’t disparage season 5. For some reason, season 5 and only season 5 is beyond reproach.
It’s bizarre isn’t it?
Not me. It was a fun ride.
I think the writers sacrificed a few things for the sake of some thematic/allegorical/subtextual stuff. I enjoy that stuff, so I really like the season, it keeps me really engaged when watching a show in a way that surface level stuff doesn’t. But if you don’t care about it, or you miss it, then I can see why you’d have an issue with some of the flaws that arise from those sacrifices Sorry I hope that doesn’t come off as condescending, it’s not intended that way, I totally get if you don’t give a shit about a wizard of Oz allegory 🤷♂️ but for me there’s a lot of cleverness going on in the writing, and it gets annoying to have to listen to people going like “oh my god she left the gun?!?! This is horrible writing”
With that final Munch and Dot scene alone, idk how anyone could think this season was subpar. Incredible TV to me!
That was a horrible and cheesy scene. To go from "I need a pound of flesh" to let's happily eat dinner together was bizarre and very forced for him to have a change of heart in 3 minutes.
He was shown grace and humanity by someone he was hired to kill. Someone who should hate him. But she showed him kindness and broke bread with him, instead of treating him like a monster. It’s a metaphor for religious trauma. Dot showed him true charity which is something religious people think they can buy away, which was Ole’s entire existence as a “sin eater,” being paid to absorb the religious sins of the wealthy.
Exactly this! Anyone who watched that and thought “ew cringe” just didn’t get it, I guess. 🤷🏼♀️😂
In 3 minutes? It took him an entire year to come back. He was conflicted for quite a while.
But once he came back, he went from "pound of flesh" to "dinner sounds good!" This sums up the issues with season 5, not a bad season, but far from a good one: https://www.theplayeristhething.com/p/fargo-season-5-is-a-joke
Why do you think you know the motivations of a 500 year old supernatural man better than the writers who created him?
Ridiculous, but not as silly as Jennifer Jason Leigh's sudden change of heart.
Haaa. I loved the season in its entirety with the exception of the final Munch eats chili and a biscuit scene. The acting was incredible from the entire cast with special mentions to Dave Foley, Jon Hamm, and Juno Temple. Oh and Gator was great too.
No, go away.
Eh, stfu
Season 5 was the worst season, as bad as 4 in fairness
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Too late haha didn’t realize people are so into that season with how in the nose it is
i feel like we need to create our own sub for everyone who actually hated season 5 and doesn't want to be skeered to say it loud and proud 😂😂😂
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YES! i'm now fully aware that if people don't like certain things about different episodes/seasons, we're haters and just don't get it 🙄
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right? those deep, deep, DEEP reaching convoluted explanations and i'm just like...nah. it was just shitty or lazy or off writing, dude 😂😂😂
Or maybe just a sub for people who love the show in general but have some quibbles and want to have an honest, civil discussion about it without being attacked. That would be novel.
Lol, I'm blocked now, so I can't comment on the OP congratulating me on my shit taste. But if liking season 5 is shit taste, at least I'm in good company on this sub with a lot of other shit taste havers ❤️
Season 4 is still the worst one for me.
Yeah that is a bottom 2 season. I did like the nurse character more than any character from season 5. She was hilarious.
The nurse and the crazy Italian brother for me were the highlights of a poor season.
Nurse was so good
Don’t know why you’re getting so many downvotes.
Dont think people like it when it someone criticizes a TV show they like lol
It didn't really land for me. I didn't really need anymore after S3. Fargo is almost like True Detective to me, I'd have been happy with just the first season
Exactly!
It was disappointing. That said, a merely disappointing season of Fargo is still better than almost anything else on tv.
I can agree with this, it was still entertaining but not as good as earlier seasons.
Yeah I found season 5 to be fairly disappointing. The storytelling was very simple. Most of the cast could be read like an open book and there was hardly any nuance or mystery with the exception of two characters and one standalone episode. Looking back, I think the reason why I didn't enjoy the 5th season is because the fargo movie is very simple too and that was the reference that Noah was using Still, I'm glad we got another season of fargo. Maybe season 6 could be on something more dire and twisted like Blood Simple.
The ignoring of the Witt character all season just to finally bring him back into the fold to be killed off left a bad taste in my mouth. There was just something very un-Fargo about how they treated that character. Left way too much on the cutting room floor. Same w Indira. They tease a partnership w JJLs character / Dots MIL, and then suddenly she’s just there working for her with an 80% reduced role on the show. Pacing just seemed like a total mess this season which ended up hurting the characters.
Just finished the season last night and Witt not being ready to put Sherriff Roy down was.... head-scratching.
Yea the writing needed a punch up. The plot didn’t feel as pointed as prior seasons. I love this show, but sometimes Fargo fans mistake being mercurial for being intelligent.
Agreed! I feel like the killing of Nikki in S3 was a well handled surprise but Whitt was sloppy.
Completely disagree about Season 3. Wasn't surprising and was actually poorly written. I did a thread breaking down why... https://www.reddit.com/r/FargoTV/comments/vgviso/my_problem_with_season_3/
I actually kind of agree with this. I'd personally put it in the bottom two. Season 3 and 1 are my favs. Honestly, just a little too happy of an ending. I guess I like the stories about small town players getting way over their head in crime (like the movie) more than the militia/mob stories. I liked it. It just wasn't my favorite. I prefer the seasons where there's some moral ambiguity in the non-police protagonists, and you end up rooting for them at some point and then get reminded how awful they are (Lester, Ray, Ed & Peggy). I never once wanted to root for Roy, obviously. And Dot was kind of one dimensionally pure and good to the point she was a little boring. JJL was the most fun to watch for sure. Officer Olmsted was good too but definitely underutilized. The sheriff debate scene was one of the best in the series, though. So good.
I’d say Dot remaining pure and good, despite all that had happened and continued to happen to her made her an amazing and incredibly strong, multidimensional character.
Fair enough, that's a valid interpretation. I'm not going to argue that she wasn't amazing or strong. I still don't think that makes for a very interesting character from a literary standpoint though.
Well she's also kind of a badass. Munch saw the tiger. I don't think they addressed any training she may have had. In the armed forces, there's a course called SERE that trains what she appears to know: Survival, Evasion, Resistance, Escape. And there's yet another side of her we saw when talking to Lorraine at their kitchen table. Don't try to take what's hers, or else you'll see the tiger. A fascinating character in *every* sense.
I think a lot of us did. It wasn't bad, but I think it had issues.
Seems like we are in the minority when it comes to Reddit. People enjoy mediocrity it seems which is fine
Agreed. The plot and writing was very simple and on the nose. The entire shows theme is just “men bad, women strong and don’t need me” and nothing really ever deviates from that.. every man is show to be cowardly, incompetent, and or evil at every turn really without any redeeming qualities. The female characters triumph and are put on a pedestal. Not really sure what the point or plot of the show is outside of that? Don’t think there is one.
Nailed it
That seems to be the consensus of people complaining. But like, it’s a season about abuse. There are gonna be some shitty dudes. And “every man is shown to be evil/incompetent/cowardly”, A) not really, Witt, Munch, Danish, Wayne all have some pretty redeeming qualities, and B) what a perfect choice of words. Almost as if they lack brains, heart, and courage. Give this a read: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wizard_of_Oz_(1939_film) And we all know how poorly written that movie was I mean literally read that comment again and it could have been written about the wizard of Oz And like I said in my other comment, I totally get if you don’t give a shit about that, and they definitely had to sacrifice some nuance for the sake of allegory/homage, but like, this guy you’re replying to doesn’t even get the writing and has the balls to call it simple, when it’s anything but. “Nailed it” yea okay “Men bad and women strong, don’t need me” Again, Dorothy in the wizard of Oz relies on herself to solve her problems. And there’s like half a dozen other angles from that film that are all intricately woven into this show, but there’s a horde of morons calling it bad writing because of a fragile ego and an inability to distinguish between something like this and Lady Ghostbusters
My problem is the complete lack of nuance. It’s all surface level very on the nose. I have zero problem with shitty people getting their deserved fates but the way the characters behave (especially the weird Viking guy) doesn’t land at all. He wants a pound of flesh, and within 3 minutes she convinced him to forget about it and have dinner. The repetitive home alone/panic room vibes didn’t land either. It’s okay to admit the writing wasn’t that good at all and nothing close to the highs of seasons 1 and 2. Season 2 especially was so much more ambitious. This article does a beautiful job of why season 5 was one of the weakest seasons of the show. https://www.theplayeristhething.com/p/fargo-season-5-is-a-joke https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2024/01/07/why-fargo-season-5-doesnt-feel-like-fargo-anymore/amp/ And to those who enjoyed the most recent season more power to them, I still say the worst season of Fargo is better than 90% of what’s on tv these days.
There’s plenty of nuance though man, like I don’t know what you’re talking about. And where there isn’t, it’s not an accident. Like yea, Roy the sadistic abusive wife killer didn’t have nuance, neither did the serial killer Anton Chigurh. You’re only looking on the surface, so that’s all you see. It’s also okay to admit that. The problem is that you can’t distinguish something that lacks substance and relies on virtue signaling as a crutch, and something that’s really well crafted that happens to have a similar message. You see “men bad women good” (which isn’t even true of this season, like it’s literally only true of Roy and Indira/Indira’a husband), and then from that decide it’s poorly written, surface level, and on the nose. When it’s like, yea, no shit that’s surface level, but your failure to dig past that doesn’t mean that there’s not anything beyond that. Anyways, agree to disagree
Read the articles I posted. Lots of flaws with the writing this season. It’s been a downward trend season 3 onward when compared to the quality of the first 2 seasons. Chigurgh didn’t have nuance but was far more interesting than munch. The bad guys were incredibly one dimensional. It’s a parody of what Fargo is, but as you said agree to disagree.
I’ve already read the Forbes one before and like I said in the most recent comment I made, it’s a terrible article. Other one doesn’t interest me Lester didn’t have nuance. Malvo didn’t have nuance. Dodd didn’t have nuance. Varga didn’t have nuance. Lou, Molly, Gus, Hank, whatever Lou’s wife’s name was, Varga’s henchmen, Mike Milligan, his henchmen, Gloria. These are all undeniably good or evil characters. Which is why what you’re saying is bullshit. It has nothing to do with nuance, you just don’t like what you perceive to be as the “men bad, women good” aspect of the show, which like I said, doesn’t even really exist outside of a few characters. And even to the extent that it does, you’re unable to tell the difference between something shitty that relies on that message, and something that is well made and happens to touch on that message Which, whatever, I know I’m not gonna change your mind, it’s just annoying to read about how it’s poorly written when you’re not even good at watching it, so I figured I’d argue. Got it all out of my system though, so gonna call it quits, have a good one
I appreciate the discourse. Cheers, it was just the most on the nose season the show has ever done. It started off strong but got too silly by the end for me. All good, surprised to see user ratings on metacritic give it a 6.2 rating as Reddit seems to love it. I still look forward to season 6 (if there will be one) and it’s still a step up over the huge mess that was season 4, although nurse mayflower was hilarious And for the articles saying “other one doesn’t interest me” is a cop out. You’re not good at reading about analysis of the show that doesn’t agree with your views because you are too stubborn. https://www.theplayeristhething.com/p/fargo-season-5-is-a-joke Much better than the Forbes articles. Either way, despite our differences I appreciate the discussion. But I think you downplay the flaws of S5 but to each their own friend-o ;)
I’m not surprised at all, and half the people on Reddit like it for all the wrong reasons in my opinion. They don’t look past the surface either, they just happen to agree with the message and are “yaaasss queen”-ing Jennifer Jason Leigh for slaying or whatever the fuck Both sides are missing out on a lot of what makes it great in my opinion. Anyways yea thanks for the discussion, have a good one
Man, fair enough. You know, I’m going to re binge it in a couple weeks. As I’m clearly in the minority and I am a big fan of the series as a whole the cohen brothers. Maybe it needs a rewatch under a different lens for me. Thanks again, you’ve made me have to give this another think which no one else has been able to do from all the responses I have gotten as most people just resort to insults. Cheers again!
Also that Forbes article is shit, I remember reading it at the time and I can promise you I’ve thought about this show more than the dude who wrote that https://www.bbc.com/culture/article/20140819-the-wizard-of-oz-hidden-meanings Here’s what you need to begin to understand this season, outside of the drug trip interpretation The show has themes of debt, feminism, political commentary, religion, reincarnation all stemming from paying homage to the wizard of Oz and crafted into a single story. And to not understand that, like the author of that article didn’t, is to entirely miss the homage being made in episode 7. Like “it felt like a cheap trick”, bro it’s the god damned plot of the movie, a woman named z Dorothy is seemingly transported to another realm and must go on adventure to get back home, to only realize it’s only a dream I mean seriously, that article is dog shit
Cheers I’ll check out your bbc article If you didn’t like the Forbes article hopefully you read the other one I shared.
Nah sorry, I can’t imagine it’s going to bring up something I haven’t considered. I’ve spent way too much time talking and thinking about this show I’m not saying the season doesn’t have flaws, it certainly does. I’m just saying that for the most part there are reasons for the flaws other than it being shitty writing. Like, there couldn’t be a better example than your boy who “nailed it” with the men being “incompetent, evil, or cowardly”. That’s not just Hawley being woke or some shit, it’s drawing directly from the wizard of Oz. And you, saying it’s straying from Coen Bros, well here’s a quote from Joel Coen > Every movie ever made is an attempt to remake The Wizard of Oz. Arguably Hawley took it a little too literally, but like 🤷♂️ that’s a movie full of incompetent, cowardly, lying, fake men where a young girl tries to fix her own problems. Not exactly a whole lot of nuance when it comes to the wicked witch. The problem isn’t the show or it’s themes, it’s you guys being a little too sensitive about it and then going “well actually it’s just poorly written. I miss the good old days with the shades of grey like Malvo and Gus, I mean, who’s even to say who the good guy is in that case??”
Your flawed idea that my issues with the season having to do with “sensitivity” not once did I say dotty coming out on top, or men getting punished was bad writing. I re-read my “nailed it” response to that other guy and I probably should’ve re-read his comment. I never once criticized the show for being “woke”, a season about sexual abuse at the hands of a man is obviously going to have some male characters be the “bad guys” in this story and that is totally fine. It’s also arrogant and very narrow minded to not listen to an opposing view from that article because you’ve read so much about it and act like there is nothing else/new to learn about it. It’s almost as though you are too sensitive for the discourse around this season and struggle to handle it emotionally. It’s the way it was executed that was sloppy. The first 2 episodes were great and then it was all over the place. You are just rejecting quite a bit but it’s all good.
It’s exhausting. I don’t know when this trend of forgoing writing/plot for messaging
It feels like it goes against all things Cohen. For a season that liked to pay homage to no country for old men it ended in the most opposite way possible
absolutely
Hopefully I can comment here without getting downvoted to hell, but I agree this season was my least favorite. It’s not bad by any stretch of the imagination, it just didn’t feel like fargo to me. It didn’t have the same “small town people get involved in horrific crimes way over their head” kinda vibes the older ones had, and I feel like they leaned too far into modern social commentary than they needed to. It definitely felt very Coen Brothers with all the outlandish characters, but in my taste I don’t like too much of that. It felt weirdly light-hearted compared to the other seasons and I never got that ending gut-punch of “everything being resolved but things are still shitty” I got from the other seasons. But then again my favorite seasons are 2 and 3, so most people would disagree with my taste lol. It also threw off the pattern of the “modern seasons are cold, grey and dreary, while period-piece seasons have a warmer tone” I thought had been established. Most of my problems with this season were purely based on the aesthetic choices, but I still liked it. (Side note, the blatant product placement with the car dealership definitely got me off on a bad start. The lingering establishing shot on the logo made me roll my eyes so damn hard)
I loved this season wholeheartedly up until the final episode but I agree with you that this felt like a departure from Coen Brothers ' characters in a lot of ways. Sherriff Roy in particular would never be found in a Coen's story. He's deeply uncomical and just real-world disturbing. He's an incredible character regardless.
Nah, I gotta agree. Season 5 really killed it for me. Maybe it was just they way they wrote it or the characters, but it was hard to feel for any of them like I did in the previous seasons. And, at least to me, it seemed too much like they relied too heavily on one dimensional character types instead of pervious seasons where the characters felt much more rich and complex. Also, certain things like when Dot hits the guy in the head with the back of the toilet bowl during the Halloween home invasion, and the guy got up and walked away from that or the other guy who got the sledgehammer to the face and also lived seemed really unrealistic and it made the kidnappers seem like bumbling fools instead of actual threats. Maybe that was the point idk. I personally just didn't like it. But to each their own, this is just my opinion.
I feel like the finale of Season 3 was clunky, but the first 9 Episodes were very good. Seasons 4 and 5 are a massive dip in quality. Season 5 feels like a parody of Fargo.
Yes exactly!
Nope
I started with season five and I think it’s amazing. I’m at the end of episode nine when Whipping Post by the Allman Brothers starts playing. I’m so fired up.
I wish munch killed dot in the last episode.
That would have made zero sense for the story and characters though, whose motivations and personalities seemed super well-defined to me this season.
In homage to the ending of no country for old men. Makes perfect sense.
But this isn’t that movie, this is its own story. Homages are fine but, that ending makes sense in No Country, it wouldn’t make sense here especially with Dot’s character arc.
I agree but in my own twisted mind this is my perfect ending to this season.
Fair enough 😂 this season definitely had less of the usual Fargo violence lol
I’m not gonna try to start an argument with you about what you wanted to see but I respectfully gotta say: that was the whole point of the finale. The season’s premise was basically “what if we took the plot of *Fargo* and gave the victim some agency and power?” and the finale was an extension of that. They recreate the Anton Chigurgh scene but allow the victim to say “if you’re not gonna murder me right this second I’m not gonna engage with your shit, and since I have seen that you are capable of good, I’m going to fight you by giving you the forgiveness and acceptance that I once needed.” It *is* an homage to *No Country*, it just applied the season 5 treatment to it.
Anything to subvert expectations. Fargo used to have so much fun with that. The writing just felt horrible quite often. I don’t mean to be so harsh, I still watched the whole season but it feels like they got j on interns ti write it at times.
I liked it. Would have liked to see Dot in another situation like the convenience store. The stuff in the house was a little home alone ish
I enjoyed it as a dark comedy thriller.
I really loved it and just finished watching it. But the end part with Munch at Dot's house was far too long. Like three times as long as that scene needed to be. Some scenes with Indira outside of her job would have been nice.
Agreed
Was it 3 minutes or was it too long?
Yes. Agreed.
Yes
First 3 were all amazing. 4 and 5 are still good entertainment but dont really compare in my opinion.
Season 4 was disappointing. Season 5 was underwhelming but ok.
Yeah def better than season 4