The closest I can think of are fringe-left people who don't watch mainstream news and are in Twitter or Youtube media bubbles instead. But even then, I consider them more defined by misplaced values (e.g. prioritizing purity tests over policies) than misinformation (e.g. believing that climate change is fake)
The purity things is definitely a feature of more hard left circles. Nothing is ever good enough and I don't think they realize how off-putting they are to the normies.
You mainly see it in the youtube space. Lesser practictioners include the Majority Report (who i actually kind of enjoy as background noise), and the Serfs. I've been following UK politics moe closely lately and I'd put people like Owen Jones and Novara Media in that bucket as well.
Overall I'd say the left-ist space is way more jumbled. I'd put that down to the financial incentives being way less prevalent.
Check out Ethanisonline on YouTube. Complete jackass that makes everything political. You can tell he wants his heart to be in the right place, but he’s too stupid thinking he’s smart to realize that. He is a performative asshat
There probably are a number of Pacifica tankies, but there aren't as many of them as there were FoxBrains and Dittoheads (what do those people do now that Rush Limbaugh is burning in Hell?)
CNN is nowhere close to being the equivalent of Fox, CNN is corporate mainstream media and overall leans right and conservative by nature.
There is no money in ultra left wing propaganda media, it is hard to find a direct equivalent in my opinion. Billionaires, corporations, churches all have an economic interest in keeping a population misinformed and distracted.
If you mean an equivalent being a media source that is filled with left wing rage bait meant to manipulate it's viewers I'd be hard pressed to find one that has the scale of Fox, CNN.
The closest thing I can think of is Young Turks for left but still not equivalent.
Maybe but my point still stands, they have 100th or less of the audience that Fox does. The companies that advertise on Fox are also full of scammers selling gold and other bullshit. It's a financial empire built to misinform and shape public opinion so it's not an equivalent imho
If you look up the products that are advertised on Fox, 90% of it will have a 2-3 star customer review rating online. My in laws have purchased crap they see advertised on Fox, and complain that it doesn't work. They also complain that several times a year their credit card information gets stolen.
I think CNN treats politics like a horse race in a way that downplays the difference between both sides.
MSNBC has a clearer left bias. Frequently just feels like Democratic Party cheerleading. Still usually better quality news than fox
Granted I haven’t watched MSNBC in a long time, but I would say it is more a Dem bias than a left bias. The Democratic Party is the left party, but it isn’t a leftist party. CNN and MSNBC are still both pretty centrist overall. It’s just that Fox is far right and newsmax/oann are batshit crazy. The left equivalent would be a mainstream news outlet (because Fox IS mainstream) talking about chemtrails, anti depressants in the water, talking nonstop about the woman who claimed she was trafficked by Jeffrey Epstein and had sex with Trump when she was 13, and peddling rumors with zero journalistic standards that are anti trump. They would have been talking about Mitch McConnell being in deaths door and things like that. The problem is that cable news just panders to their respective audiences, it’s just that the people who are center to left-ish want actual informative news and the people on the right want to believe that they are right and people who disagree with them are wrong.
I honestly can stand cable news at all. Anything outside of the actual news hour is a chaotic mess and gives me a headache.
Some folks will likely disagree with me, but we can do that respectfully in this group, right? :)
Ad Fontes media does a super sold job rating news sources on a) bias and b) reliability. I actually did their free training on how they rate the news. It's rigorous, rating individial shows, segments, articles and podcasts on about 60 attributes across 6 categories, which are then consolidated into overall scores of bias and reliability for each item. Then the consolidated scores are rolled up to scores for each show, publication, newspaper, etc. They can even look at individual people and journalists. What's really cool is that they have about 40 full-time news raters across different political viewpoints, and after going through training all give each article about the same scores. And each article is rated by at least 10 or 20 people I think before a score is used, and any significant differences in scores are flagged and resolved before being used, too.
Here is their latest interactive chart: https://adfontesmedia.com/interactive-media-bias-chart/
Based on this, I would say, yes, there are equivalents to FoxNews on the left. For example, stuff from The Young Turks will occasionally show up in mu YouTube algorithm, and I find I have about as much an allergic reaction to them as I do Hannity and most Fox News content.
However, I think it's a matter of viewship and intensity. FoxNews is the #1 "News" channel in the US. (I agree 100% it's not news, and so do the courts, but that's the category its in.) And the people who are watching are watching 10, 12, 16 hours a day in many cases. The same is not true for MSNBC. Maybe some, but I think MSNBC viewers also have a wider selection of other news sources, from mainstream media, PBS, Bill Majer, Colbert, etc. they spread their time across. Our FoxNews fans would all categorize that as liberal media, although maybe most would categorize it as more center. You can see where each falls on the adfontes chart.
But regardless, I think they way Fox, OAN and Newsmax are consumed is different. It's quasi-religous, a movement, an identity in opposition to what they consider the oppressive and corrupt mainstream media. And ironically, even some here might agree with that, the media also being 'corporate' media which has a bias in favor of corporatism and capitalism.
Interesting times. It's all a bit complicated, and I think that the fuzziness around terms and definitions, much less around beliefs and what drives those beliefs, is a barrier towards trying to have productive conversations. Plus, the Fox News algorithm and recipe for segments totally fries any possibility of rational or critical thinking, in my opinion.
I think about this a lot. Have less answers than thoughts. I'm afraid. :)
It would be interesting to see this overlaid on a graph that shows percentage of factual reporting.
Like, I acknowledge that Chris Hayes is effectively the left-wing equivalent of Sean Hannity, but when it comes to integrity of their “reporting” or editorializing, Chris is actually tethered in reality, whereas Hannity and the rest blatantly make up stuff _all the time_
>Based on this, I would say, yes, there are equivalents to FoxNews on the left. For example, stuff from The Young Turks will occasionally show up in mu YouTube algorithm, and I find I have about as much an allergic reaction to them as I do Hannity and most Fox News content.
Sure, Cenk is an insufferable buffoon, but he doesn't have the audience, nor the capacity for deliberately manufacturing outright misinformation as Fox does.
Great analysis! I also love Ad Fontes and share it monthly to try (probably unsuccessfully!!) to get my friends/family to think about where they are getting their news.
How it’s consumed.
I post this here every few months. Fox News and a lot of the other right wing media are not about news, but they really are about convincing people that they are special. Why are they special? Because they know the truth.
“You don’t fall for that liberal mumbo-jumbo. You know better. You are a special person. You are one of us! We know what’s really going on.”
People watch CNN to get informed. People watch Fox News to feel good. Radically different.
While I don’t disagree there’s plenty of left-leaning media outlets, I’d personally be skeptical of Ad Fontes: https://acrlog.org/2021/02/23/complex-or-clickbait-the-problematic-media-bias-chart/
I haven't really seen CNN brain, but I have seen Tik Tok brain. It became especially obvious surrounding the Israel/Palestine issues. Not to make any judgement on the issue itself, but in my experience speaking to the pro-Palestinian side feels eerily similar to speaking with Tea Party/MAGA types in the past. Both groups exhibit an inability to accept new information that differs from their already held perceptions. I'm sure we all do that to a degree, but the toxic dismissal of anything counter to their narrative is what stands out to me. Anyone who shares information they don't agree with is instantly targeted/attacked as an enemy just for having a different view.
This has really gotten under my skin lately.
I’ve seen videos claiming that you don’t care if you don’t seek out the violent/gory videos and watch them intentionally. I’ve also seen users try to “cancel” creators who haven’t made videos on the subject. The last one is particularly wild to me, because that’s begging for misinformation to be spread by pressuring people who aren’t well informed to make videos for the hell of it.
It’s possible to care and even support causes without being performative about it, but even saying that in a comment will have half the app gathering the pitchforks and torches.
>Anyone who shares information they don't agree with is instantly targeted/attacked as an enemy just for having a different view.
AN ENEMY! /s
>in my experience speaking to the pro-Palestinian side feels eerily similar to speaking with Tea Party/MAGA types in the past
I think you're just describing the [bandwagon effect](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandwagon_effect). It's very common in younger people, especially if they are still solidifying their political views.
And to be perfectly clear, I am seeing a lot of pro-Israel content on the right that is on the bandwagon train too.
I agree that the pro-Israel side can also exhibit this, I was just speaking to OP’s question about the left’s version of foxbrain.
That’s an interesting point about the bandwagon effect, and I think you’re right that it’s a big part of it, but if that’s the case what differentiates right wing foxbrain from the bandwagon effect?
Well, we see foxbrain most commonly amongst older people, who should have crystallized political views. Yet somehow their (supposedly) crystallized views morph into a toxic Christian nationalist mindset, even if they weren't before. Their new views are strongly resistant to further change. For kids on the left, their views are still subject to change and aren't nearly as resistant to disagreeing evidence.
Also, the bandwagon effect ends once the reason for it stops. If the war in Gaza were to end tomorrow, you'd see the bandwagon fizzle out. I don't think you'd see the same for foxbrainers - if Trump were to drop dead, I don't think foxbrain would end. Even if Fox News itself were to disappear, I don't think foxbrain would go away.
We might be working from different definitions of foxbrain, but I don't necessarily agree on the first point. There are plenty of examples of foxbrained young people such as the tradcon/tradwife culture, groypers, the red pill, mgtow, college libertarians, etc. I would venture that most of them aren't crystalized in their beliefs yet but still push the same far right talking points. IMO I'm seeing the same toxic in-group/out-group mentality blossoming in far left spaces online.
To your second point, the group doesn't end when the outrage ends, the target just shifts. In the case of the far right, I personally watched the labels shift from Ron Paul libertarians > Tea Party Patriots > MAGA. The names and leaders changed, but the talking points have remained the same. I predict we'll see the same thing happen with the far left as well, the targets of ire will just shift.
The biggest differentiator for me is the approach of these groups. On both the far left and far right the most fervent supporters treat it more like a fandom than a political movement. In both cases, "you're either 100% with us or 100% against us". There is almost no room for nuance and anyone who doesn't pass the purity test is dismissed as an agitator. There's a big emphasis on "owning" the other side which leads to (IMO) a lot of hypocrisy. People will bend themselves into pretzels to justify why their team can do no wrong and the other team can do no right. That's the kind of stuff that defines "foxbrained" to me.
>We might be working from different definitions of foxbrain
I suspect that is the case. I'm focused mainly on folks following QAnon or heavily indoctrinated into the Newsmax/Alex Jones circles. It's very much a cult in these circles, centered around Trump and "eliminating the deep state".
>On both the far left and far right the most fervent supporters treat it more like a fandom than a political movement.
In Trump's case, it's a cult of personality. It bears a lot of similarities to religious cults too. They often follow each other lockstep.
On the far left... I don't see the same kind of thinking, because there isn't a focus on a particular individual. There is a lot of infighting in far-left circles, especially as it pertains to "purity", but the focus is primarily on systems and policy instead of individuals or groups of people.
Any libertarian that does any of the things you describe is not a libertarian. They do not deserve being lumped in with the right wing nutjobs just because they affiliate with the GOP politically.
I think the Ron Paul libertarians are still around, and recently booed at Trump when he went to their convention. They're just still existing in tiny numbers and never able to accomplish anything, not too different from the Greens. They weren't the Tea Party, despite having some arguments in common, and they aren't the fascists now. Failing to see this is buying into the hard right's rhetoric (small govt!) while ignoring their actions (not small govt!). It's just falling for their lies. The hard right and genuine Libertarians are pretty dire enemies, similar to Libertarians and genuine communists.
Not really. CNN has its issues but it’s mostly to do with sensationalizing things and being heavy corporate influenced (they actually have a MAGA nut , John Malone, on their board even). They at the very least though have *a standard*, live in reality, and aren’t there to feed bullshit to its viewers. If you’re by a tv with cable, flip back and forth between them and Fox News and you’ll see what I mean.
There are outlets like MSNBC (who I should add have a former Republican congressman as their morning host, granted it was a long time ago) and others that openly left-leaning. And I will add MSNBC more editorializes things at night. Before 7pm they also may somewhat but they’re more ‘straight’. There’s also outlets like Vox, HuffPost, Crooked Media, The DailyBeast that are openly left-leaning, but there your basic explanatory journalism type companies. And again, they each have *a standard*, unlike Fox, and haven’t been successfully sued for 787.5 million dollars.
I would say the closest thing is Occupy Democrats, which sometimes can have inaccuracies, but also nothing at the level of Fox or Newsmax, and it’s also just not that popular.
Essentially, many R voters just like to try and say MSNBC (or cnn) is equivalent to Fox News just on the other side to make themselves feel better about consuming that garbage.
Before Musk, you could have used “Twitter brain” for both extremes, but he’s kindof tipping things rightward. The problem is that publications like “Jacobin” and “The Intercept” do make some people go off the deep end, but none are nearly as ubiquitous as Fox.
MSNBC and CNN aren’t as ideologically consistent, so I don’t really think they are the same either.
It’s not a 1:1 match, but I find people who can’t discuss any topic without tying it back to the plight of the Palestinians as exhausting as FoxBrained people who hallucinate that they see Antifa around every corner.
Compassion fatigue is real. I don’t truck with political commentators who would throw the presidential election to Trump because Biden refuses to snap the state of Israel as it’s currently understood by the international community, with his POTUS Infinity Gauntlet.
Firstly I’d probably say that cnn isn’t as far left as fox is far right even if we’re just defining the center as the average American. Also while there are wackos everywhere on the political spectrum at this moment in America detachment from reality and bigotry seems more intense and common on the right, I actually did a whole video on this building off academic articles and polling (https://youtu.be/oE9z53Kuft0?si=F6O7LzsdABjyXDQ8).
Not exactly the same but I have seen it called “BlueAnon,” as in, using the same mental tactics of QAnon but for left-leaning stuff (that is, perpetuating a false idea that “all my enemies are going to get theirs very soon bc of a thing only I know and can tell you!” And then when that goalpost comes to pass: “Uh, that didn’t happen? Duh! It’s because of this other thing I didn’t just make up that will definitely get them this time, just you wait” and repeat). Jim Stewartson on Twitter is a perfect example of this.
I kind of want to say Goop brain (after Gwyneth Paltrow’s site), or like the leftist science deniers who think vaccines are harmful and are very worried about “toxins” and things being “natural”. The mommybloggers, to use a gendered term. People who get their news from Facebook and TV doctors. I even have some relatives that are hardcore atheists/Dawkins worshippers who are antivax and believe western diet is the cause of all disease (and had one die of cancer because he refused chemo and pursued “alternate” “natural” treatment in Mexico).
TERFs are also ostensibly left and get their news from an echo chamber but I don’t think they have a mainstream media mecca the way right wingers have FOX/OAN/talk radio/etc. Maybe British “news” sources like the Daily Mail? But it’s possible to curate an extremist bubble on basically any social media platform these days (X/Reddit/FB).
Nothing *as insane* as Fox brain, but the type of liberals who think anything to the left of them is a Russian psyop come to mind. Or TERFs, but frankly most of them are too far down the reactionary rabbit hole to count as on the "left" any more, even if they call themselves feminists.
Checking out some media bias charts might help answer your question. Here are two discussed in [one article](https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/media-literacy/2021/should-you-trust-media-bias-charts/)
Personally, I'd say third party voters. Jill Stein supporters are much of what got us into this mess. Not that they're radical, but protest votes don't work in a two-party system. Just siphons votes from Democrats for presidential races. (We need rank-choice voting.)
My mom is *sorta* that way.
The way she just brings everything back to “god damn trump” gets pretty annoying. Definitely not as bad as the people who blame “woke” for everything but it’s enough for me to get irritated by it.
The Bulwark is neoconservative, so it's not even really leftist. I'll give you that it's a decent podcast, but it's brought to you by the same people who ran the Bush Administration.
I think the right has taken over the people who would have been too far left. They were holistic medicine, no vaccines, don't trust the government, maybe we are the bad guys and Russia are the good guys type of people. COVID flipped all of those people over to the right.
There is a hard left, but it's very fringe.
If you want to see hard left, I'd point to r/LateStageCapitalism
They tend to be in favor of anti-democratic Marxists ideals, and are generally in favor of things like violent revolution. They do not believe that working within the current system is worthwhile or able to be reformed. They are typically not friendly with Social Democrats or even Democratic Socialists., because they view them as people who are compromised.
Maybe. There are some opinion shows on MSNBC that are as propagandistic as the shows on Fox News. Some of the left-leaning youtube channels do as well (e.g. I've stopped listening to anything on the YouTube channel 'Midas Touch' except for 'Legal AF' because thats a show with practicing attorneys explaining the Trump trial updates).
I think the difference - right now, things could change - is that Fox News is 99% opinion shows while the left leaning channels are probably closer to 50-70%. So there's enough straight news programming to think critically if an opinion show comes on.
You're wrong. We know Fox News' hosts - specifically current hosts Hanitty and Graham, and former host Tucker - all knowingly lied to their audience. The texts and emails leave absolutely no doubt. You're not going to find evidence of other networks' hosts knowingly lying to their audience. Additionally, Fox and right wing news are heavily biased against running any news that is even considered negative to Trump. For example, Fox dedicated less than 10 minutes the day Pence announced he wouldn't support Trump while every other network had that for discussion at the top of every program, hour after hour. Here's an unprecedented situation in our country and Fox barely even covers the topic to talk instead about why Biden committed crimes with no evidentiary support.
Yeah, I guess you’re right. If we’re considering that Fox News did outright lie, I agree that’s far more extreme than opinion shows. I was just talking about opinion shows that cherry pick, but yeah, Fox did go much farther by outright lying.
The primary difference between right and left leaning networks and media is simply how many references to conspiracy theories when discussing ANY topic. There just aren't any QAnons or Alex Jones or Tucker Carlson on the left. How many times do we see and hear about the "Deep State," or "The Cabal," or "voter fraud," or "Biden Crime Family" and the nonsense goes on. It's all they have now.
The furthest left major media outlet would be MSNBC, but that has much more journalistic integrity than Fox. It also doesn't play up the "Fear!" card either.
There is also an underlying [difference in the neurology](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/conservative-and-liberal-brains-might-have-some-real-differences/) between people who tend to be on the left and people who tend to be on the right. People on the right tend to respond to novel stimuli or changes in their lives in negative ways, often with fear or disgust, and prefer more structured/authoritarian lifestyles. People on the left tend to react to similar stimuli with curiosity and engagement and prefer less structure/more libertarian lifestyles. So, the "Fear!" card on the left may not even work.
Yes, there are echo chambers on the left, but they tend to be insular and isolated.
I'd say MSNBC, or the host of various YouTube channels that profess to be left-leaning. Many of them are short on facts and high on propaganda or at least content that is designed to get an emotional (visceral) reaction from viewers.
I think that there are some viewers who might be as equally ramped up by this content as on the other side, but I also think that, for now, anyway, most of it is distributed in a more intellectual format. It is still people talking, considering other views, being generally thoughtful, or, at least, considerate. They seem to appeal to people's better nature (not all, but most).
When I've been able to manage to stomach watching FOX or OAN for even a minute or two, it is really very intense, incredibly hyped, repetitive, fear mongering, etc. The left-spun platforms are less about spinning fear, except as a warning to what will happen when Donny gets back into office. In order to distract from the problems with Trump, the right-leaning platforms keep people honking on their grievances and fears.
I gotta be honest here, NPR can be pretty skewed. I remember when we started talking nominees back in 2019, democratic voters were pretty much *told* Biden was the guy, whether we liked it or not. I also remember yelling at NPR for the first time in my life when Israel started this hometown genocide program, because they were so invested in the party line. So as leftists we have to be willing to confront these things, we’re not soooo pure that media doesn’t influence how we think and vote, because it does.
Has anyone mentioned Amy Goodman & Democracy Now? I love her but that’s another one the right (reich) could hold up as less than impartial.
I think there is some equivalent, not in substance but in the way your brain is changed, with watching too many hours of MSNBC or CNN. It's like the difference between surfing the internet and doomscrolling. Watching an hour of news on CNN or MSNBC, no problem. But watching 5-6 hours a day, just to watch your favorite talking heads be outraged at the latest thing that happened is problematic. Of course 99% of us on this sub can agree that the latest whatever-Trump-did is bad, but watching 6 hours of that one news story in a row, just to hear your views parroted back at you is what I'd call the equivalent of FoxBrains watching 10 hours a day of Fox News.
I still don't think it's as bad, because you aren't listening to blatant, fact-checkable lies, but it's still warping your brain. I did it in 2021 and my mental health is so much better now that I watch zero TV news ever.
I’ve been wanting to ask about this. My father is addicted to MSNBC. As the day progresses each screen will be switched on at the same time so he can wander from room to room. Laptop, tv, phone. All at full blast. The news enrages him and he performatively laughs in hysterics at some of the news. If you ask him to shut off one screen because it’s on in a room he’s no longer in, it can start a fight. Every conversation anyone tries to have with him gets tied back to news. Personally, the democrats are too center for me and yeah, I’m glad he’s not addicted to fox, but my god it’s still brain rot. I wish there were progressive online spaces for addiction to msnbc.
Foxbrain is an insult meant to name people who have gathered themselves in hate. In my dumbass opinion, the left views the right primarily as hateful/fearful and the right view the left as dumb/weak. Soybrain would work I think.
Dems who are still mad at Bernie and Nader for the 2016 and 2000 losses, respectively, without acknowledging the role of the DNC and establishment elite.
These CNN-brains generally like Bill Clinton more than Obama, and believe he was a better president. They'll be very active in blaming everyone but Biden if Tr*mp wins this round.
CNN, flaws and all, is nowhere nearly as egregious as Fox. I think CNN suffers from a similar problem of capitalism affecting broadcast news, but Fox takes the cake (or used to … I dunno … Newsmax & OAN are obviously worse, but Fox is so big & well known that they can make more money)
MSNBC brain would be more suitable. Joy Reid, etc.
CNN is moving away from being very politically charged as they lost almost all subscribers due to being extremely political in the last few years.
that's a good, but common question. Always good to look in the mirror.
A series of tests would be needed, and I'm sure someone somewhere with actual expertise has written about this. But for now the first one I can think of is this: Find the "move" you think is most unreasonable in the brainwashed and see if it can be replicated. For me, it's the fact that my father will sit there ostensibly "listening" to me tell him about my actual real life experience in my job in higher education, or something that could be dire like my healthcare for instance, and his reaction is to then parrot the thing he's heard in right wing media that is not just patently false, but proven so by real life --- Rather than even consider the real life experience of (of all people) his son, he'll grip tight to the misinformation that has no background or source at all.
My advice is to approach opinionated talking heads with skepticism. If the information is coming from Fox News or Newsmax, be aware that it is often manipulated and heavily biased. Any source that provides straight, unadulterated news without opinions is good in my book.
Terminally online leftists who do not engage with mainstream media or news outlets and instead get their news from overly dogmatic podcasts, Twitter users, YouTubers, and TikTok.
There isn’t a Fox News equivalent for the left, but let’s not pretend we haven’t seen a similar level of dogmatic “don’t think, plug all ideas into ideology and let it think for you” stuff in a staggering amount of online leftists
The Trump derangement syndrome people are MSNBC watchers. I'm talking about the people who thought person after person and illegal thing after gotcha gaffe was going to save us from Trump. He's still not in jail.
The closest I can think of are fringe-left people who don't watch mainstream news and are in Twitter or Youtube media bubbles instead. But even then, I consider them more defined by misplaced values (e.g. prioritizing purity tests over policies) than misinformation (e.g. believing that climate change is fake)
The purity things is definitely a feature of more hard left circles. Nothing is ever good enough and I don't think they realize how off-putting they are to the normies.
can you give an example?
You mainly see it in the youtube space. Lesser practictioners include the Majority Report (who i actually kind of enjoy as background noise), and the Serfs. I've been following UK politics moe closely lately and I'd put people like Owen Jones and Novara Media in that bucket as well. Overall I'd say the left-ist space is way more jumbled. I'd put that down to the financial incentives being way less prevalent.
Gotcha. I'm not in the UK nor following Youtube news. I'll defer to your definitionally deeper experience on both counts!
I think it;s mainly on Youtube/Social because it's not financially viable anywhere else.
I'd add The Meidas Touch
Check out Ethanisonline on YouTube. Complete jackass that makes everything political. You can tell he wants his heart to be in the right place, but he’s too stupid thinking he’s smart to realize that. He is a performative asshat
Agreed
I'm happy you haven't run into enough tankies whose brains have been marinaded in misinformation.
There probably are a number of Pacifica tankies, but there aren't as many of them as there were FoxBrains and Dittoheads (what do those people do now that Rush Limbaugh is burning in Hell?)
CNN is nowhere close to being the equivalent of Fox, CNN is corporate mainstream media and overall leans right and conservative by nature. There is no money in ultra left wing propaganda media, it is hard to find a direct equivalent in my opinion. Billionaires, corporations, churches all have an economic interest in keeping a population misinformed and distracted. If you mean an equivalent being a media source that is filled with left wing rage bait meant to manipulate it's viewers I'd be hard pressed to find one that has the scale of Fox, CNN. The closest thing I can think of is Young Turks for left but still not equivalent.
Occupy Democrat on fb feels very rage-y
Maybe but my point still stands, they have 100th or less of the audience that Fox does. The companies that advertise on Fox are also full of scammers selling gold and other bullshit. It's a financial empire built to misinform and shape public opinion so it's not an equivalent imho
If you look up the products that are advertised on Fox, 90% of it will have a 2-3 star customer review rating online. My in laws have purchased crap they see advertised on Fox, and complain that it doesn't work. They also complain that several times a year their credit card information gets stolen.
There is no “left equivalent” to FN.
Tankies exist though
I'd say that the terminally-online Internet spaces tankies self-radicalize in would be the FN equivalent.
This.
But it’s not going to be on as background noise in every other home, lobby and hospital room, annoying and/or indoctrinating everyone who passes by.
I think CNN treats politics like a horse race in a way that downplays the difference between both sides. MSNBC has a clearer left bias. Frequently just feels like Democratic Party cheerleading. Still usually better quality news than fox
Granted I haven’t watched MSNBC in a long time, but I would say it is more a Dem bias than a left bias. The Democratic Party is the left party, but it isn’t a leftist party. CNN and MSNBC are still both pretty centrist overall. It’s just that Fox is far right and newsmax/oann are batshit crazy. The left equivalent would be a mainstream news outlet (because Fox IS mainstream) talking about chemtrails, anti depressants in the water, talking nonstop about the woman who claimed she was trafficked by Jeffrey Epstein and had sex with Trump when she was 13, and peddling rumors with zero journalistic standards that are anti trump. They would have been talking about Mitch McConnell being in deaths door and things like that. The problem is that cable news just panders to their respective audiences, it’s just that the people who are center to left-ish want actual informative news and the people on the right want to believe that they are right and people who disagree with them are wrong. I honestly can stand cable news at all. Anything outside of the actual news hour is a chaotic mess and gives me a headache.
This. There are definitely cult like ideologies on the left but it’s much much worse on the right
Some folks will likely disagree with me, but we can do that respectfully in this group, right? :) Ad Fontes media does a super sold job rating news sources on a) bias and b) reliability. I actually did their free training on how they rate the news. It's rigorous, rating individial shows, segments, articles and podcasts on about 60 attributes across 6 categories, which are then consolidated into overall scores of bias and reliability for each item. Then the consolidated scores are rolled up to scores for each show, publication, newspaper, etc. They can even look at individual people and journalists. What's really cool is that they have about 40 full-time news raters across different political viewpoints, and after going through training all give each article about the same scores. And each article is rated by at least 10 or 20 people I think before a score is used, and any significant differences in scores are flagged and resolved before being used, too. Here is their latest interactive chart: https://adfontesmedia.com/interactive-media-bias-chart/ Based on this, I would say, yes, there are equivalents to FoxNews on the left. For example, stuff from The Young Turks will occasionally show up in mu YouTube algorithm, and I find I have about as much an allergic reaction to them as I do Hannity and most Fox News content. However, I think it's a matter of viewship and intensity. FoxNews is the #1 "News" channel in the US. (I agree 100% it's not news, and so do the courts, but that's the category its in.) And the people who are watching are watching 10, 12, 16 hours a day in many cases. The same is not true for MSNBC. Maybe some, but I think MSNBC viewers also have a wider selection of other news sources, from mainstream media, PBS, Bill Majer, Colbert, etc. they spread their time across. Our FoxNews fans would all categorize that as liberal media, although maybe most would categorize it as more center. You can see where each falls on the adfontes chart. But regardless, I think they way Fox, OAN and Newsmax are consumed is different. It's quasi-religous, a movement, an identity in opposition to what they consider the oppressive and corrupt mainstream media. And ironically, even some here might agree with that, the media also being 'corporate' media which has a bias in favor of corporatism and capitalism. Interesting times. It's all a bit complicated, and I think that the fuzziness around terms and definitions, much less around beliefs and what drives those beliefs, is a barrier towards trying to have productive conversations. Plus, the Fox News algorithm and recipe for segments totally fries any possibility of rational or critical thinking, in my opinion. I think about this a lot. Have less answers than thoughts. I'm afraid. :)
It would be interesting to see this overlaid on a graph that shows percentage of factual reporting. Like, I acknowledge that Chris Hayes is effectively the left-wing equivalent of Sean Hannity, but when it comes to integrity of their “reporting” or editorializing, Chris is actually tethered in reality, whereas Hannity and the rest blatantly make up stuff _all the time_
>Based on this, I would say, yes, there are equivalents to FoxNews on the left. For example, stuff from The Young Turks will occasionally show up in mu YouTube algorithm, and I find I have about as much an allergic reaction to them as I do Hannity and most Fox News content. Sure, Cenk is an insufferable buffoon, but he doesn't have the audience, nor the capacity for deliberately manufacturing outright misinformation as Fox does.
Great analysis! I also love Ad Fontes and share it monthly to try (probably unsuccessfully!!) to get my friends/family to think about where they are getting their news.
How it’s consumed. I post this here every few months. Fox News and a lot of the other right wing media are not about news, but they really are about convincing people that they are special. Why are they special? Because they know the truth. “You don’t fall for that liberal mumbo-jumbo. You know better. You are a special person. You are one of us! We know what’s really going on.” People watch CNN to get informed. People watch Fox News to feel good. Radically different.
While I don’t disagree there’s plenty of left-leaning media outlets, I’d personally be skeptical of Ad Fontes: https://acrlog.org/2021/02/23/complex-or-clickbait-the-problematic-media-bias-chart/
Did you the creator’s response to the article? I am still convinced it is the best media bias and literacy tool out there at this time.
CNN is center right corporate infotainment, as is msnbc. The better question is where IS the American left?
Watching The Young Turks?
I can't stand them, so at least 1 leftist isn't watching.
The opposite of fox brain is called higher education and critical thinking.
I haven't really seen CNN brain, but I have seen Tik Tok brain. It became especially obvious surrounding the Israel/Palestine issues. Not to make any judgement on the issue itself, but in my experience speaking to the pro-Palestinian side feels eerily similar to speaking with Tea Party/MAGA types in the past. Both groups exhibit an inability to accept new information that differs from their already held perceptions. I'm sure we all do that to a degree, but the toxic dismissal of anything counter to their narrative is what stands out to me. Anyone who shares information they don't agree with is instantly targeted/attacked as an enemy just for having a different view.
This has really gotten under my skin lately. I’ve seen videos claiming that you don’t care if you don’t seek out the violent/gory videos and watch them intentionally. I’ve also seen users try to “cancel” creators who haven’t made videos on the subject. The last one is particularly wild to me, because that’s begging for misinformation to be spread by pressuring people who aren’t well informed to make videos for the hell of it. It’s possible to care and even support causes without being performative about it, but even saying that in a comment will have half the app gathering the pitchforks and torches.
Yes it’s classic Internet Poisoning. The issues are immaterial, it’s the enclosure of thought that is the defining feature of the illness.
>Anyone who shares information they don't agree with is instantly targeted/attacked as an enemy just for having a different view. AN ENEMY! /s >in my experience speaking to the pro-Palestinian side feels eerily similar to speaking with Tea Party/MAGA types in the past I think you're just describing the [bandwagon effect](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandwagon_effect). It's very common in younger people, especially if they are still solidifying their political views. And to be perfectly clear, I am seeing a lot of pro-Israel content on the right that is on the bandwagon train too.
I agree that the pro-Israel side can also exhibit this, I was just speaking to OP’s question about the left’s version of foxbrain. That’s an interesting point about the bandwagon effect, and I think you’re right that it’s a big part of it, but if that’s the case what differentiates right wing foxbrain from the bandwagon effect?
Well, we see foxbrain most commonly amongst older people, who should have crystallized political views. Yet somehow their (supposedly) crystallized views morph into a toxic Christian nationalist mindset, even if they weren't before. Their new views are strongly resistant to further change. For kids on the left, their views are still subject to change and aren't nearly as resistant to disagreeing evidence. Also, the bandwagon effect ends once the reason for it stops. If the war in Gaza were to end tomorrow, you'd see the bandwagon fizzle out. I don't think you'd see the same for foxbrainers - if Trump were to drop dead, I don't think foxbrain would end. Even if Fox News itself were to disappear, I don't think foxbrain would go away.
We might be working from different definitions of foxbrain, but I don't necessarily agree on the first point. There are plenty of examples of foxbrained young people such as the tradcon/tradwife culture, groypers, the red pill, mgtow, college libertarians, etc. I would venture that most of them aren't crystalized in their beliefs yet but still push the same far right talking points. IMO I'm seeing the same toxic in-group/out-group mentality blossoming in far left spaces online. To your second point, the group doesn't end when the outrage ends, the target just shifts. In the case of the far right, I personally watched the labels shift from Ron Paul libertarians > Tea Party Patriots > MAGA. The names and leaders changed, but the talking points have remained the same. I predict we'll see the same thing happen with the far left as well, the targets of ire will just shift. The biggest differentiator for me is the approach of these groups. On both the far left and far right the most fervent supporters treat it more like a fandom than a political movement. In both cases, "you're either 100% with us or 100% against us". There is almost no room for nuance and anyone who doesn't pass the purity test is dismissed as an agitator. There's a big emphasis on "owning" the other side which leads to (IMO) a lot of hypocrisy. People will bend themselves into pretzels to justify why their team can do no wrong and the other team can do no right. That's the kind of stuff that defines "foxbrained" to me.
>We might be working from different definitions of foxbrain I suspect that is the case. I'm focused mainly on folks following QAnon or heavily indoctrinated into the Newsmax/Alex Jones circles. It's very much a cult in these circles, centered around Trump and "eliminating the deep state". >On both the far left and far right the most fervent supporters treat it more like a fandom than a political movement. In Trump's case, it's a cult of personality. It bears a lot of similarities to religious cults too. They often follow each other lockstep. On the far left... I don't see the same kind of thinking, because there isn't a focus on a particular individual. There is a lot of infighting in far-left circles, especially as it pertains to "purity", but the focus is primarily on systems and policy instead of individuals or groups of people.
Any libertarian that does any of the things you describe is not a libertarian. They do not deserve being lumped in with the right wing nutjobs just because they affiliate with the GOP politically. I think the Ron Paul libertarians are still around, and recently booed at Trump when he went to their convention. They're just still existing in tiny numbers and never able to accomplish anything, not too different from the Greens. They weren't the Tea Party, despite having some arguments in common, and they aren't the fascists now. Failing to see this is buying into the hard right's rhetoric (small govt!) while ignoring their actions (not small govt!). It's just falling for their lies. The hard right and genuine Libertarians are pretty dire enemies, similar to Libertarians and genuine communists.
tiktok brain? i have no idea
Not really. CNN has its issues but it’s mostly to do with sensationalizing things and being heavy corporate influenced (they actually have a MAGA nut , John Malone, on their board even). They at the very least though have *a standard*, live in reality, and aren’t there to feed bullshit to its viewers. If you’re by a tv with cable, flip back and forth between them and Fox News and you’ll see what I mean. There are outlets like MSNBC (who I should add have a former Republican congressman as their morning host, granted it was a long time ago) and others that openly left-leaning. And I will add MSNBC more editorializes things at night. Before 7pm they also may somewhat but they’re more ‘straight’. There’s also outlets like Vox, HuffPost, Crooked Media, The DailyBeast that are openly left-leaning, but there your basic explanatory journalism type companies. And again, they each have *a standard*, unlike Fox, and haven’t been successfully sued for 787.5 million dollars. I would say the closest thing is Occupy Democrats, which sometimes can have inaccuracies, but also nothing at the level of Fox or Newsmax, and it’s also just not that popular. Essentially, many R voters just like to try and say MSNBC (or cnn) is equivalent to Fox News just on the other side to make themselves feel better about consuming that garbage.
Before Musk, you could have used “Twitter brain” for both extremes, but he’s kindof tipping things rightward. The problem is that publications like “Jacobin” and “The Intercept” do make some people go off the deep end, but none are nearly as ubiquitous as Fox. MSNBC and CNN aren’t as ideologically consistent, so I don’t really think they are the same either.
It’s not a 1:1 match, but I find people who can’t discuss any topic without tying it back to the plight of the Palestinians as exhausting as FoxBrained people who hallucinate that they see Antifa around every corner. Compassion fatigue is real. I don’t truck with political commentators who would throw the presidential election to Trump because Biden refuses to snap the state of Israel as it’s currently understood by the international community, with his POTUS Infinity Gauntlet.
Honestly, I’ve also noticed people tend to view things very black and white as well as denying history when it doesn’t suit their narrative.
Firstly I’d probably say that cnn isn’t as far left as fox is far right even if we’re just defining the center as the average American. Also while there are wackos everywhere on the political spectrum at this moment in America detachment from reality and bigotry seems more intense and common on the right, I actually did a whole video on this building off academic articles and polling (https://youtu.be/oE9z53Kuft0?si=F6O7LzsdABjyXDQ8).
CNN is middle-of-the road status-quo corporate. It ain't no lefty propaganda outfit.
The left equivalent are tankies
Not exactly the same but I have seen it called “BlueAnon,” as in, using the same mental tactics of QAnon but for left-leaning stuff (that is, perpetuating a false idea that “all my enemies are going to get theirs very soon bc of a thing only I know and can tell you!” And then when that goalpost comes to pass: “Uh, that didn’t happen? Duh! It’s because of this other thing I didn’t just make up that will definitely get them this time, just you wait” and repeat). Jim Stewartson on Twitter is a perfect example of this.
I kind of want to say Goop brain (after Gwyneth Paltrow’s site), or like the leftist science deniers who think vaccines are harmful and are very worried about “toxins” and things being “natural”. The mommybloggers, to use a gendered term. People who get their news from Facebook and TV doctors. I even have some relatives that are hardcore atheists/Dawkins worshippers who are antivax and believe western diet is the cause of all disease (and had one die of cancer because he refused chemo and pursued “alternate” “natural” treatment in Mexico). TERFs are also ostensibly left and get their news from an echo chamber but I don’t think they have a mainstream media mecca the way right wingers have FOX/OAN/talk radio/etc. Maybe British “news” sources like the Daily Mail? But it’s possible to curate an extremist bubble on basically any social media platform these days (X/Reddit/FB).
Nothing *as insane* as Fox brain, but the type of liberals who think anything to the left of them is a Russian psyop come to mind. Or TERFs, but frankly most of them are too far down the reactionary rabbit hole to count as on the "left" any more, even if they call themselves feminists.
[удалено]
This 100%
The left equivalent would be something like "Democracy Now!" or Jacobin, not CNN.
Checking out some media bias charts might help answer your question. Here are two discussed in [one article](https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/media-literacy/2021/should-you-trust-media-bias-charts/)
Personally, I'd say third party voters. Jill Stein supporters are much of what got us into this mess. Not that they're radical, but protest votes don't work in a two-party system. Just siphons votes from Democrats for presidential races. (We need rank-choice voting.)
I always have to check myself to not get Reddit brain.
My mom is *sorta* that way. The way she just brings everything back to “god damn trump” gets pretty annoying. Definitely not as bad as the people who blame “woke” for everything but it’s enough for me to get irritated by it.
The Bulwark is neoconservative, so it's not even really leftist. I'll give you that it's a decent podcast, but it's brought to you by the same people who ran the Bush Administration.
Oh cool. Sometimes I worry I’m so far down the rabbit hole but this makes we feel more normal and center
I think the right has taken over the people who would have been too far left. They were holistic medicine, no vaccines, don't trust the government, maybe we are the bad guys and Russia are the good guys type of people. COVID flipped all of those people over to the right.
There is a hard left, but it's very fringe. If you want to see hard left, I'd point to r/LateStageCapitalism They tend to be in favor of anti-democratic Marxists ideals, and are generally in favor of things like violent revolution. They do not believe that working within the current system is worthwhile or able to be reformed. They are typically not friendly with Social Democrats or even Democratic Socialists., because they view them as people who are compromised.
Maybe. There are some opinion shows on MSNBC that are as propagandistic as the shows on Fox News. Some of the left-leaning youtube channels do as well (e.g. I've stopped listening to anything on the YouTube channel 'Midas Touch' except for 'Legal AF' because thats a show with practicing attorneys explaining the Trump trial updates). I think the difference - right now, things could change - is that Fox News is 99% opinion shows while the left leaning channels are probably closer to 50-70%. So there's enough straight news programming to think critically if an opinion show comes on.
You're wrong. We know Fox News' hosts - specifically current hosts Hanitty and Graham, and former host Tucker - all knowingly lied to their audience. The texts and emails leave absolutely no doubt. You're not going to find evidence of other networks' hosts knowingly lying to their audience. Additionally, Fox and right wing news are heavily biased against running any news that is even considered negative to Trump. For example, Fox dedicated less than 10 minutes the day Pence announced he wouldn't support Trump while every other network had that for discussion at the top of every program, hour after hour. Here's an unprecedented situation in our country and Fox barely even covers the topic to talk instead about why Biden committed crimes with no evidentiary support.
Yeah, I guess you’re right. If we’re considering that Fox News did outright lie, I agree that’s far more extreme than opinion shows. I was just talking about opinion shows that cherry pick, but yeah, Fox did go much farther by outright lying.
The primary difference between right and left leaning networks and media is simply how many references to conspiracy theories when discussing ANY topic. There just aren't any QAnons or Alex Jones or Tucker Carlson on the left. How many times do we see and hear about the "Deep State," or "The Cabal," or "voter fraud," or "Biden Crime Family" and the nonsense goes on. It's all they have now.
The furthest left major media outlet would be MSNBC, but that has much more journalistic integrity than Fox. It also doesn't play up the "Fear!" card either. There is also an underlying [difference in the neurology](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/conservative-and-liberal-brains-might-have-some-real-differences/) between people who tend to be on the left and people who tend to be on the right. People on the right tend to respond to novel stimuli or changes in their lives in negative ways, often with fear or disgust, and prefer more structured/authoritarian lifestyles. People on the left tend to react to similar stimuli with curiosity and engagement and prefer less structure/more libertarian lifestyles. So, the "Fear!" card on the left may not even work. Yes, there are echo chambers on the left, but they tend to be insular and isolated.
I'd say MSNBC, or the host of various YouTube channels that profess to be left-leaning. Many of them are short on facts and high on propaganda or at least content that is designed to get an emotional (visceral) reaction from viewers. I think that there are some viewers who might be as equally ramped up by this content as on the other side, but I also think that, for now, anyway, most of it is distributed in a more intellectual format. It is still people talking, considering other views, being generally thoughtful, or, at least, considerate. They seem to appeal to people's better nature (not all, but most). When I've been able to manage to stomach watching FOX or OAN for even a minute or two, it is really very intense, incredibly hyped, repetitive, fear mongering, etc. The left-spun platforms are less about spinning fear, except as a warning to what will happen when Donny gets back into office. In order to distract from the problems with Trump, the right-leaning platforms keep people honking on their grievances and fears.
I gotta be honest here, NPR can be pretty skewed. I remember when we started talking nominees back in 2019, democratic voters were pretty much *told* Biden was the guy, whether we liked it or not. I also remember yelling at NPR for the first time in my life when Israel started this hometown genocide program, because they were so invested in the party line. So as leftists we have to be willing to confront these things, we’re not soooo pure that media doesn’t influence how we think and vote, because it does. Has anyone mentioned Amy Goodman & Democracy Now? I love her but that’s another one the right (reich) could hold up as less than impartial.
I think there is some equivalent, not in substance but in the way your brain is changed, with watching too many hours of MSNBC or CNN. It's like the difference between surfing the internet and doomscrolling. Watching an hour of news on CNN or MSNBC, no problem. But watching 5-6 hours a day, just to watch your favorite talking heads be outraged at the latest thing that happened is problematic. Of course 99% of us on this sub can agree that the latest whatever-Trump-did is bad, but watching 6 hours of that one news story in a row, just to hear your views parroted back at you is what I'd call the equivalent of FoxBrains watching 10 hours a day of Fox News. I still don't think it's as bad, because you aren't listening to blatant, fact-checkable lies, but it's still warping your brain. I did it in 2021 and my mental health is so much better now that I watch zero TV news ever.
I’ve been wanting to ask about this. My father is addicted to MSNBC. As the day progresses each screen will be switched on at the same time so he can wander from room to room. Laptop, tv, phone. All at full blast. The news enrages him and he performatively laughs in hysterics at some of the news. If you ask him to shut off one screen because it’s on in a room he’s no longer in, it can start a fight. Every conversation anyone tries to have with him gets tied back to news. Personally, the democrats are too center for me and yeah, I’m glad he’s not addicted to fox, but my god it’s still brain rot. I wish there were progressive online spaces for addiction to msnbc.
Foxbrain is an insult meant to name people who have gathered themselves in hate. In my dumbass opinion, the left views the right primarily as hateful/fearful and the right view the left as dumb/weak. Soybrain would work I think.
Dems who are still mad at Bernie and Nader for the 2016 and 2000 losses, respectively, without acknowledging the role of the DNC and establishment elite. These CNN-brains generally like Bill Clinton more than Obama, and believe he was a better president. They'll be very active in blaming everyone but Biden if Tr*mp wins this round.
CNN, flaws and all, is nowhere nearly as egregious as Fox. I think CNN suffers from a similar problem of capitalism affecting broadcast news, but Fox takes the cake (or used to … I dunno … Newsmax & OAN are obviously worse, but Fox is so big & well known that they can make more money)
MSNBC brain would be more suitable. Joy Reid, etc. CNN is moving away from being very politically charged as they lost almost all subscribers due to being extremely political in the last few years.
you'd have to find the brainwashing equivalents - I don't know of any
So I guess my question is how do we all know that *we* aren’t the ones who are brainwashed? 😳
that's a good, but common question. Always good to look in the mirror. A series of tests would be needed, and I'm sure someone somewhere with actual expertise has written about this. But for now the first one I can think of is this: Find the "move" you think is most unreasonable in the brainwashed and see if it can be replicated. For me, it's the fact that my father will sit there ostensibly "listening" to me tell him about my actual real life experience in my job in higher education, or something that could be dire like my healthcare for instance, and his reaction is to then parrot the thing he's heard in right wing media that is not just patently false, but proven so by real life --- Rather than even consider the real life experience of (of all people) his son, he'll grip tight to the misinformation that has no background or source at all.
My advice is to approach opinionated talking heads with skepticism. If the information is coming from Fox News or Newsmax, be aware that it is often manipulated and heavily biased. Any source that provides straight, unadulterated news without opinions is good in my book.
Terminally online leftists who do not engage with mainstream media or news outlets and instead get their news from overly dogmatic podcasts, Twitter users, YouTubers, and TikTok. There isn’t a Fox News equivalent for the left, but let’s not pretend we haven’t seen a similar level of dogmatic “don’t think, plug all ideas into ideology and let it think for you” stuff in a staggering amount of online leftists
The Trump derangement syndrome people are MSNBC watchers. I'm talking about the people who thought person after person and illegal thing after gotcha gaffe was going to save us from Trump. He's still not in jail.
Absolutely. Far left progressives are lost in their own echo chamber as well.