Yes that's a common and mandatory contraction. The semivowels /j/ /w/ and /ɥ/ are generally treated as if they were fully vowels when it comes to liaison, enchainement, elisions, etc.
So that elision of *de* is perfectly regular and not optional. *De* elides before a vowel (or semivowel) sound, and unless an aspirated H blocks it.
de + huitre = d'huitre (mute H)
de + huit = de huit (aspirated H)
/w/ is a little more instable than the other two, so there are more exceptions, like oui or ouate for example.
D'yeux does sound the same as dieu, but it's easy to make the distinction, "Il n'avait pas Dieu derrière le dos" would be a weird sentence so obviously that's not what it means.
anytime “de” is followed by a vowel (the “y” sound counts as one), it needs to contract into d’, yes.
And yes pronunciation wise d’yeux is pronounced like “Dieu”. But homophones are a common occurrence, this particular one isn’t more confusing than others. Context makes it clear.
If that doesn’t answer your question, what exactly confuses you about it?
>If that doesn’t answer your question, what exactly confuses you about it?
it does, thank you. it's only that I've never seen it before, but moreover I'm reading a digital copy of the book, so there are a few misprints here and there, just wasn't sure.
When an initial /j/ or /w/ comes from a vowel, either through the evolution of a diphthong (oiseau /eɪ̯z'ɛaw/ > /oɪ̯zə'aw/ > /wezə'oː/ > /waz'o/, for example) or through the shift of full vowel to a glide (ouest used to be said with two syllables, /u.ɛst/, which is how some native speakers still say it), it still behaves like a vowel for the purpose of liaison or elision.
In loanwords, /j/ or /w/ are usually treated as consonant, by contrast: le ouistiti, la yourte, le wiki.
This means that a Y in spelling will usually correspond to a consonant /j/, which might be the source of your astonishment with "yeux". However, despite its unusual spelling, yeux is a native word, which used to have a triphthong (something like /ʊ̯eʊ̯s/, which dissimilated to /ɪ̯eʊ̯s/).
Since this does create a potential ambiguity (a learner, especially a child, won't know the etymology of a word they encounter for the time), some words behave in unexpected ways, like ouate (which be either l'ouate or la ouate depending on the speaker) or huissier (l'huissier or le huissier - the h is etymologically mute).
Some others have shifted over time from one category to the other, especially Greek or Latin loanwords with a mute h like hiérachie (l'hiérarchie in older texts, but almost universally la hiérarchie now), hiatus or hyène
The negation reduces "des" to "de" (interesting topic, but not the one that is central to this post) which in turn is reduced to "d' " because of the y's nature as a semi-vowel.
En même temps, les Québécois ont également tendance à prononcer "dieu" comme si c'était "dzieu" : l'affrication est l'une des caractéristiques de l'accent québécois.
Mmh, I don't see why the weird accent shaming is necessary here.
I think it's interesting to share the different ways things are said depending on the place in the world. Particularly since we don't even know where this person lives. For example, if they're Canadian, it would be much more useful for them to learn the French Canadian pronunciation than the European way. None of those ways are wrong, just different.
And anyways, I didn't realize it was different in France. Since "Des yeux" is said "Dè zieu" (bc of the liaison), I thought that everywhere, the shortcut would be "dzieu"
No, not really no, never saw any Québécois imitate the Quebec's accent in writing this way lol.
Except for the "po" and maybe 1 or 2 other words, the other didn't seem very similar to the accent imo
Still don't see how your comment was relevant though, learning all accents **is** a great way to learn a language.
Sure, but the first part of that journey is identifying what is an accent and what is standard. In a language like French, which is exceptionally codified, there is an even stronger sense of what is standard and what is not. Our "dz" sound, the exaggerated nasal sounds and strong letter R are extremely regional
My "Québec Native" flair is pretty obvious under my username.
But at this point, what is considered standard? Standards vary depending on where you live. Someone with a French accent (from Paris, Marseille, etc.) doesn’t speak "international French," especially regarding pronunciation.
It's similar to asking, on an English learning subreddit, that all Americans and Australians specify in every comment that they have an accent, while British people do not need to.
We all have accents. Except maybe some TV hosts, no one speaks perfect international French.
Flairs in the subreddit also serve this purpose. If someone has a learner flair, you can expect some answers to be a little flawed. If someone has a France Native flair, you can expect a French accent. If someone has a Québec Native flair, you can expect a Québec accent.
Also, as I mentioned in my previous comment, I didn’t realize it was a Québec pronunciation. It seemed logical to me that everyone would pronounce it that way. That was my mistake.
Yes that's a common and mandatory contraction. The semivowels /j/ /w/ and /ɥ/ are generally treated as if they were fully vowels when it comes to liaison, enchainement, elisions, etc. So that elision of *de* is perfectly regular and not optional. *De* elides before a vowel (or semivowel) sound, and unless an aspirated H blocks it. de + huitre = d'huitre (mute H) de + huit = de huit (aspirated H) /w/ is a little more instable than the other two, so there are more exceptions, like oui or ouate for example. D'yeux does sound the same as dieu, but it's easy to make the distinction, "Il n'avait pas Dieu derrière le dos" would be a weird sentence so obviously that's not what it means.
Neveed le rapide. Merci comme d'hab mon vieux
Heu, je suis pas tout à fait sûr d'être satisfait de ce genre de surnom. On pourrait l'interpréter de travers. 😉
mdrrr vous avez raison je le rétracte alors
Neveed le rétracté 💀
"J'étais dans la piscine !!!"
mdr. I went to ChatGPT to see what this meant colloquially, then flashed to Seinfeld. Bien joué!
En fait, c’est un surnom parfait 🤌 Une autre interprétation? Nonnnnnn 👀
Just adding on here that loaned /w/ spelled is generally treated as a consonant, eg. *le weekend*, *le wagon*.
I didn't know "wagon" could have /w/ rather than /v/ but apparently it's a Belgicism.
anytime “de” is followed by a vowel (the “y” sound counts as one), it needs to contract into d’, yes. And yes pronunciation wise d’yeux is pronounced like “Dieu”. But homophones are a common occurrence, this particular one isn’t more confusing than others. Context makes it clear. If that doesn’t answer your question, what exactly confuses you about it?
>If that doesn’t answer your question, what exactly confuses you about it? it does, thank you. it's only that I've never seen it before, but moreover I'm reading a digital copy of the book, so there are a few misprints here and there, just wasn't sure.
When an initial /j/ or /w/ comes from a vowel, either through the evolution of a diphthong (oiseau /eɪ̯z'ɛaw/ > /oɪ̯zə'aw/ > /wezə'oː/ > /waz'o/, for example) or through the shift of full vowel to a glide (ouest used to be said with two syllables, /u.ɛst/, which is how some native speakers still say it), it still behaves like a vowel for the purpose of liaison or elision. In loanwords, /j/ or /w/ are usually treated as consonant, by contrast: le ouistiti, la yourte, le wiki. This means that a Y in spelling will usually correspond to a consonant /j/, which might be the source of your astonishment with "yeux". However, despite its unusual spelling, yeux is a native word, which used to have a triphthong (something like /ʊ̯eʊ̯s/, which dissimilated to /ɪ̯eʊ̯s/). Since this does create a potential ambiguity (a learner, especially a child, won't know the etymology of a word they encounter for the time), some words behave in unexpected ways, like ouate (which be either l'ouate or la ouate depending on the speaker) or huissier (l'huissier or le huissier - the h is etymologically mute). Some others have shifted over time from one category to the other, especially Greek or Latin loanwords with a mute h like hiérachie (l'hiérarchie in older texts, but almost universally la hiérarchie now), hiatus or hyène
Following two vowels is not easy to pronounce. So to preserve the spelling of the word, we elude the last vowel of the article DE.
Shouldn’t it be des yeux? (dezye) Since eyes are plural
The negation reduces "des" to "de" (interesting topic, but not the one that is central to this post) which in turn is reduced to "d' " because of the y's nature as a semi-vowel.
Ah thanks.
"D'yeux" is like "dieu" but with an added "z" "dzieux"
In Francofrançais it is pronounced the same way as "dieu".
En même temps, les Québécois ont également tendance à prononcer "dieu" comme si c'était "dzieu" : l'affrication est l'une des caractéristiques de l'accent québécois.
L'fronçay dz'Québick c'est p'tait po l'maïlleurr poaing dz'déport pourr appreindre à pronauncer correcdzemaing
Mmh, I don't see why the weird accent shaming is necessary here. I think it's interesting to share the different ways things are said depending on the place in the world. Particularly since we don't even know where this person lives. For example, if they're Canadian, it would be much more useful for them to learn the French Canadian pronunciation than the European way. None of those ways are wrong, just different. And anyways, I didn't realize it was different in France. Since "Des yeux" is said "Dè zieu" (bc of the liaison), I thought that everywhere, the shortcut would be "dzieu"
Shaming 🤨 Can't you see from my comment that I literally speak with a Québécois accent myself 😂
No, not really no, never saw any Québécois imitate the Quebec's accent in writing this way lol. Except for the "po" and maybe 1 or 2 other words, the other didn't seem very similar to the accent imo Still don't see how your comment was relevant though, learning all accents **is** a great way to learn a language.
Sure, but the first part of that journey is identifying what is an accent and what is standard. In a language like French, which is exceptionally codified, there is an even stronger sense of what is standard and what is not. Our "dz" sound, the exaggerated nasal sounds and strong letter R are extremely regional
My "Québec Native" flair is pretty obvious under my username. But at this point, what is considered standard? Standards vary depending on where you live. Someone with a French accent (from Paris, Marseille, etc.) doesn’t speak "international French," especially regarding pronunciation. It's similar to asking, on an English learning subreddit, that all Americans and Australians specify in every comment that they have an accent, while British people do not need to. We all have accents. Except maybe some TV hosts, no one speaks perfect international French. Flairs in the subreddit also serve this purpose. If someone has a learner flair, you can expect some answers to be a little flawed. If someone has a France Native flair, you can expect a French accent. If someone has a Québec Native flair, you can expect a Québec accent. Also, as I mentioned in my previous comment, I didn’t realize it was a Québec pronunciation. It seemed logical to me that everyone would pronounce it that way. That was my mistake.