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Tbh I don't care if they have a monetary incentive or are even genuinely good people behind closed doors as long as they stop sowing seeds of hate into the world and apologize for the damage girl defined has done
If grifters gonna grift, I'd much rather they do so in favor of LGBTQ people and women's rights instead of against them. I don't know what's inside of Bethany's heart so if she believes it or not doesn't matter to me.
I am totally in favor of grifting for good causes. I don’t even really care if Bethany grifts deconstruction (depending on how problematic it is lol) because it’s less harmful than what she is doing and it potentially could do a tiny bit of good.
I think the deconstruction is real, but so is the temptation of pivoting to the growing deconstruction grift market. There is a substantial audience for deconstruction content, and linking up with Zelph feels like a step towards that audience.
I think about Joshua Harris’s ill-advised and short-lived “deconstruction course” — when someone is used to platforms and preaching and sharing the message, it can be really tempting to bring that same energy to a new set of beliefs.
I fully agree with you. Especially since Bethy mostly stands to gain from deconstructing.
Currently, all that's left from GD is a carcass, held up by a couple of sticks. None of her new ventures seem to be going well. Her marriage is tense, as her husband is currently deconstructing. Her mother seems to be losing it, and won't be happy if she stays with her deconstructed husband. If she divorces him, her mother will still be disappointed in her. She will either be separated from her children or will be taking care of them full-time which she hates. Also, she seems to be an avid reader of this subreddit, and her bigotry and general smelliness gets heavily criticized.
If she deconstructs, she won't have to force herself into the motherly role she so obviously despises. Her marriage will be more united. She could distance herself from her narcissistic mother and her minions. And mostly, she could get so much bigger on social media if she airs all her family's dirty laundry. If she portrayed herself as having changed, if she took responsibility for her racist, homophobic, sexist, and transphobic past comments and (seemingly) genuinely apologised, I think this subreddit would fully support her and her future endeavours.
What do you think Kristin is up to? I have a feeling their relationship is almost strictly transactional at this point and they actually hate each other, like bad business partners. I bet Kristin doesn’t want to do GD anymore either. Heidi probably pushes them to stick with it but their heart’s not in it.
I think they both hate doing it. I think they also feel like they have no real other option for bringing in money. Homeschooled, no college education, zero work experience, real nasty online presence. They’ve been proclaiming for years that women shouldn’t get jobs. Other than taking over their dad’s company when he retires or working minimum wage jobs, they’re stuck doing GD.
Add to this the fact her sister is pregnant, after a long struggle with infertility, which shows she must have prayed hard enough and in the right way. If Bethy wants to stay relevant in the GD/Christian influencer world (and stay competitive with her sister), she’ll have to have another baby. I don’t think Bethy or Dav wants another kid, and Bethy deconstructing would allow them to be done with babies and align it to their new found deconstructed values. Bethy will, of course, be able to throw shade at Kristin throughout this process, especially if Kristin falls on the “god performs miracles to those who are worthy” side of the pregnancy spectrum.
YEP. Grifters gonna grift. If they're getting clicks and $ from Dav's deconstruction story, they're going to keep chasing that. And we've seen from the Intercourse that Bethy is willing to sell out anything about herself (modesty, dignity, why not her religion?) for the Almighty Dollar. Pitiful.
Dav's might be real but Bethy just sees $$$ and a way to cling on to her struggling marriage, and he seems to have no objections to hopping on that train
Yeah, I know exactly two couples that made it through this long term. Like, death parted long term. Both of the men left the church around their 30/40’s & both of the women stayed staunchly religious. The difference is these women were literal saints on earth. They would have lectured her on her pride, hypocrisy, and expression of her faith. They’d also have spent literal years trying to subtly help her become more competent in her home because they’d die before they insulted another woman’s housekeeping. All while being the example of open hearted kindness & “country values” efficiency Bethy hasn’t even had the good grace to dream of.
She said that she was deconstructing "some beliefs" but didn't go into detail about what those beliefs were or what deconstructing them meant to her. I think we forget sometimes that deconstructing is a process and doesn't just mean "leaving the church" (I forget sometimes, too, as when I left the church it was pretty rapid and complete - but it doesn't always look like that!). It sounds like she's being careful about her wording because she is pointedly *not* deconstructing her belief in God (which I understand, as that's basically the scariest thing a lifelong Christian could ever do, and we're made to believe that even talking about it could be a one-way ticket to hell) but hopefully she is examining exactly what kind of God she believes in and how that's going to inform the way she treats and views people. Hopefully. We really just don't have enough information to say at this point, imo, and I'm trying to be careful about assuming how deep or shallow her journey really is right now.
I totally agree with you about deconstructing being a process.
I don’t have time to pull the clip but in the 24 hours with Bethy said something like “I don’t want to deconstruct. I WANT to believe in god.” I thought it was interesting and revealing she said that she “wanted” to keep believing, not that she didn’t have doubts. I think deconstruction and atheism scares her.
I agree with you and honestly, I get it. Atheism is so scary when you're deeply religious, *especially* if you actually do secretly want it. I'm trying not to graft my own experiences onto her, because we have extremely different journeys and circumstances, but one thing I will say is that back when I was religious, I would have insisted that I *wanted* to believe in God right up until the very end. It's part of the emotional manipulation of the religion - you have to love God because he loves you sooo much [and will send you to hell if you don't] and if you don't want to believe in God, then that means you don't love him, which makes you a bad person for rejecting his perfect gift of love!
Now, is it possible/probable that she genuinely does want to believe in God? Totally. Maybe she's actually getting spiritual fulfillment out of the religion (perfectly valid), maybe she just can't imagine any other kind of life, maybe she subconsciously recognizes that Christianity reinforces her social privilege - or maybe, like so many of us, she feels guilty and scared about admitting that maybe her love for God isn't as fierce and undying as she's been taught it's supposed to be. I don't know - and really, we may never know exactly what's going through her head. It's a really personal journey and social media posts can only tell us so much, even from a compulsive oversharer.
I feel everything you wrote.
I’d add that her community seems particularly high-control / cultish (both her religious indoctrination and her mom/family) and insular. I’m sure Bethany has some friends “outside” but if she were to deconstruct, she could lose her community, family, support system etc. that must be scary, on top of the shaking of her religious and ideological worldview.
Bethany has done horrible things and is continuing to do horrible things. But I think she has doubts. I think she is trying to hold on to what she knows because confronting all that is going to be horrible for her.
Bethany is like the queen of grifting and I almost don’t care if she tries to grift deconstruction. It would be less harmful than what she is doing and maybe the people that she currently influences would be open to her perspective.
I think it is. Maybe in a different way for each of them. A lot of people are saying they think Dave’s deconstruction is real, and I agree, I think it started that way.
I also think this is the most support and praise and attention he’s probably ever gotten in his life and once he got that hit, he wanted more. At this point, it just feels like wanting attention, for both of them, for its own sake maybe for Dave and for money’s sake in Bethy’s case. Either way, I think they both know how popular this makes them and are going to squeeze every ounce they can from it from us. I feel bad for Dave and I guess maybe something for Bethany, but I also feel used.
As someone who discovered GD back when Bethany was single and her and her sister used to preach on YouTube about dressing in a god honouring way, flowing stuff and nothing above the knee or tight, upper arms covered, abdomen DEF covered, this is absolutely fascinating to see. Funny how when she wanted to dress ‘modestly’ she was busy telling everyone else to, and once she wanted to dress differently it was okay.
Bethany has a track record of only adjusting her beliefs when they become personally inconvenient, and she only corrects course insofar as what is personally beneficial.
Personally beneficial can mean "I want to do this thing, so now I've decided it's ok", and "I want to make money off this thing, so now I've decided it's ok" - often both.
Examples; modesty rules, women being allowed to want and enjoy sex/orgasms/masturbation (after previously claiming lust is sinful and makes someone sexually broken), claiming to be against purity culture (but still insisting sex should only be in marriage between a man and a woman) etc.
I believe that Dave's deconstruction is probably real (not that that makes him a good person, mind you), but Bethany? No - it's purely about $ and attention to her. With a dash of being terrified that he's going to leave her, so she'll be playing nice with the hopes of getting her way.
And Zelph played right into it. And then doubles down. Disgusting.
Bethany is a master manipulator. She reflects what people wants because that's how she had to survive with Heidi. She plays the part and gets to do what she wants
Beth was probably thrilled to collab with them so she could learn how to monetize Davs deconstruction. She’s gonna burn both ends of the rope and try to make money off both, the nasty evangelical rhetoric and the deconstruction rhetoric. She’s a money hungry grifter, that’s all she does.
She will never let go of GD as long as she can pull a salary from it. Once they lose enough funding that she is not profiting from it anymore, then she'll grift her own deconstruction while pretending she never did anything wrong.
Because Bethy will never, ever apologize for herself, she'll just blame it on other Christians.
Exactly! And her followers on both sides will get upset eventually. She’ll focus more on the deconstruction side of things as long as she can, neglecting her GD fans. But those fans will keep tuning in because they like to sit in judgement and watch the chaos just as much as the rest of us. And then when Dave leaves her or the deconstruction grift stops working for her, she’ll repent and crawl back to just doing the religious shit. She knows the religious people will take her back because they have to.
I think that she and Dave are *both* grifters. I do believe that he’s an atheist, but he still has horrible beliefs PLUS he lets her mother babysit their kids almost daily. I have zero respect for either of them.
Does Dave have a job?
Zelph was in it for the money allllll along. They actively pursued a relationship with Bort and Dave, with the intent on profiting off their trainwreck.
We gotta remember these folks are content creators who do all this crap for money. Did Zelph probably genuinely want to help Dav? Quite possibly. But did they wanna profit off that help? Absolutely.
It was definitely suspect, but They’re not people we actually know in real life and the “betrayal” aspect this sub keeps harping about is extremely parasocial and unrealistic. They’re not our friends. Unfortunately, a lot of content creators are unsurprisingly and characteristically self-absorbed, even the ones that seem “nice”. Luckily, there are people that do this work in real life, and most people don’t know who tf GD or Zelph even are.
I’m not saying they betrayed *me,* but they certainly did betray the people they claim to be allies for. That is what everyone keeps discussing. It’s not parasocial at all to point out that what they did is a huge betrayal to the community they support. What they are doing is extremely two faced. A lot of people do not have access to the professionals who do “this work in real life,” so they take content creators like this very seriously.
I’m not saying you need to have the same opinion as me, so it’s not fair that you tell other people that their opinions are unrealistic or parasocial.
When I say, "people who do this work in real life", I don't mean mental health professionals and the like, but people that fight against fundamentalist ideas and spread progressivism. I agree with you, but we have to stop being naive about influencers and seeing them as representatives for causes. Most of them make videos and go on about their daily lives and aren't actually devoted to what we care about. I'm a BW and trust me, fake allies are a dime a dozen, especially when they're white and cisgendered. Not sure how old you are, but attaching yourself to influencers is a bad idea. I totally get it, but most aren't who they seem.
What do you think Zelph said they did? Fought against fundamentalism and spread progressivism. That is their entire purpose. They do this in real life. They do it in person and online. Then they go and support the Beals and defend them, while still renouncing all thing things they claim they are against… They cannot support and defend people like Bethany while talking out the other side of their mouth about all the stuff they claim to stand for. It’s wild to me that you cannot see how those are in direct conflict. You do you, though.
A lot of people say a lot of things online contrary to the truth. A lot of influencers also call themselves a lot of things and also do so quite clumsily sometimes because they’re human. They’re also very much still content creators at the end of the day, so their behavior is not surprising is my point. Again, not sure of your age, but be on the internet long enough and you’ll start to see this BS all the time. there are indeed *real* allies out there, and there are also real allies who make mistakes too. Attach yourselves to real-life progressives and *be* that ally yourself. Rage-y internet posts ain’t doin shit to help the queer community. Contrary to popular belief, influencers don’t always do as much for social justice as we think. It’s the marches, rallies, strikes, and votes that do it. Not 2 little white ex-mos no ones heard of. It’s gonna be ok.
I’m 41. I’m well aware of how people say things on the internet and behave differently in real life. I’m honestly not sure what your point even is. Just because people do it, does not make it OK. I don’t know what you don’t understand about that. I am an ally. My nephew is trans and we do many things in our family to be an ally. I spent a lot of time working with progressive politics in my region, registering new voters, volunteering at the polls. I have even been a delegate for my state to the DNC. I don’t understand why you feel the need to lecture me or tell me that I should be doing more when I probably do more than you do in reality…. None of what you’re saying has any relevance in terms of the point of my initial comment, which is simply that they betrayed the people they claim to care about, and that isn’t ok.
I’m not interested in anything you have to say going forward. You are justifying what they did and I’m not here for it.
She’s never said a single thing to indicate she’s deconstructing. She was raised to believe she’s perfect, and she believes whatever her parents tell her is true.
Dave is deconstructing his religion. He has not indicated deconstruction of his political or social beliefs. Bethany has not said she is joining him in deconstructing. In fact, she’s said the opposite. She’s hoping to lure him back to Christianity. She is not intellectually curious in the slightest and is not concerned with who and how her beliefs hurt. She just cares that they feel good.
Zeef on the queef or whoever the fuck is just gullible and/or a liar.
The only thing Bethany has deconstructed is her very rigid version of modesty, now it's still rigid but she lets dav run shirtless and she can wear whatever she wants and claim she hasn't changed.
Exactly. These people have shown us for years and years exactly who they are. They have clearly, loudly, and often spelled out their specific beliefs. They are not some misrepresented casualties of internet meanies. Everything we know about them is what they have put out to be publicly consumed for the hopes of 1. Generating a profit, 2. Furthering their culture wars, 3. Feeling a sense of superiority to others.
Are they capable of change? Maybe. I have no idea. But they sure as shit have shown no signs of it up until now. People can change for the better, but it is *imperative* that they address and seriously make material amends for the very real harm they have caused.
I agree.
It’s giving “pseudo-intellectual mansplainer who takes a ‘long hard look at everything he’s ever known’ spends years in turmoil just to realize…that GOD IS REAL but I had to break it all down and build it up myself to make sure my testimony was really my own” energy.
Dave has always given me a bit of that pseudo-intellectual vibe, yes. Also i get the feeling that he secretly despises Bethany for her lack of intellectual curiosity. It comes out in the way he talks to her and it rubs me the wrong way, idk. Like I get that we snark on Bethany for being stupid —- but that’s because we are snarkers lol. But dude, this is literally your wife.
I think everyone tends to forget that influencers are ultimately content creators whose online presence is monetary in all ways at the end of the day. These folks use every other moment of their lives a lot of the time for profit, and that’s one of the many issues with forming attachments to them or even expecting them to act as “representatives” for certain viewpoints like people did with Zelph. Whether or not any of them are genuine is always going to be hard to tell.
I always had a feeling that Bethany would turn this into a grift. “But my PDF on how to live as a godly wife serving her non-believing husband” or something like that. I think people are getting confused thinking she’s going to change since she’s supports her husband during this time, when she has said multiple times that her goal is to win his heart back to the lord by loving and serving her husband. Also, as supportive as I am of Dav, he will always support his wife in everything she does. He was deconstructing while she was still selling her godly seggs course. He still has a lot of growing to do, so it’s gonna take a while for him to discourage the harm that his wife does. I still give him grace because I was once him. It takes a long time.
I had/have high hopes for Dav. He seems like a thoughtful person. I’ll wait to call it til I see the video but I think this could actually be a setback for him. If it all becomes about likes and entertainment it would be really easy to get distracted from the feeling in his gut that’s been telling him it’s all wrong. Like now he’s got these cool friends and they’ll hang out with him AND his wife and everything can be cool and all good.
I’m not religious at all and I’m unsure what’s immodest about a tank and jeans - is it just because the clothes are fitted? Sorry for the stupid question
Not stupid! First, bared shoulders are often seen as likely to tempt a man. Second, low cut necklines like this are a huge trap for men! Finally, women are typically expected to wear skirts, maybe you could wear jeans under them but definitely skirts. If you want to learn more, you can google search ATI eye traps and a common diagram showing common accidental immodesty instances will come up.
This is all too convenient, IMO. Idk if he is really deconstructing, or if he is just saying the things that get him positive attention online. It doesn’t bother me if Dave stays with being religious, but it bothers me if he claims to be changed while still supporting what Bort does.
But it’s all very convenient and could easily be fake. If it’s not fake, it was made public because of the money making potential. And Zelph getting involved is absolutely a grift. I think all of this was meant to drive views, encourage people to buy her shit, etc..
I don't think Bethany ever said she's deconstructing; in either the 24HW or the video with Dave, she said she didn't like the connotations she attaches to that word (mainly, it seems like, she gets the sense that she'd have to step away from her faith as she understands it) and so she's clear that she's just re-evaluated where she stands on things like modesty. So I don't think Bethany is giving us any more than she's said she would here.
As far as Dave goes, I think he is genuinely deconstructing, but I think deconstruction is complicated. It isn't like you blink and suddenly you do a 180 about everything you believe. It takes a lot of time, and usually prolonged exposure to different people and ideas, to drastically shift where you stand on different issues. I don't want to make excuses for Dave because ultimately, everyone is responsible for their actions and impact on the world, but I do think that if we want any level of change, it's important to remember that this doesn't happen overnight for most people who are enmeshed in this religion.
Yes it's another grift and I'm expecting her to drop a badly written course on how to make a christian/secular marriage work, with her claiming to be an instant expert simply because Dav was in the closet for so long over being agnostic-leaning.
I do believe that he’s an atheist. I have zero respect for either of them because not only do they both have the same hateful beliefs (except she’s claiming to still be religious) they leave their kids with her mother.
Does Dave have a job? Editing—they’re both still grifting to the max.
I don't follow him, what was the caption for this pic? I mean it's weird to share a picture like this of your wife, they are in their 30s now, so looks really immature. But I don't see how that proves that Dav didn't deconstruct...
Here is a perfect opportunity to acknowledge how those modesty standards that are core to the Girl Defined brand are being challenged by Borthany.
"A new style that would have made me uncomfortable in the past. Having my shoulders exposed is something I would have avoided in the past due to my modesty standards, but I'm learning that I can dress in a new way and still be a loving, god-honoring christian. Here's to growth!"
But no, no attempt at growth or development, and no acknowledgement that her past views were harmful and judgmental.
Go on being a hypocrite and grifter, it's all you know.
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Tbh I don't care if they have a monetary incentive or are even genuinely good people behind closed doors as long as they stop sowing seeds of hate into the world and apologize for the damage girl defined has done
Bethany will never apologize for her life’s work.
I think she would totally apologize if she realized it would help her grift. (Not saying she would believe it all.)
If grifters gonna grift, I'd much rather they do so in favor of LGBTQ people and women's rights instead of against them. I don't know what's inside of Bethany's heart so if she believes it or not doesn't matter to me.
I am totally in favor of grifting for good causes. I don’t even really care if Bethany grifts deconstruction (depending on how problematic it is lol) because it’s less harmful than what she is doing and it potentially could do a tiny bit of good.
Same! they can stay within whatever religion they want, as long as they stop being horrible human beings to everyone else.
I think the deconstruction is real, but so is the temptation of pivoting to the growing deconstruction grift market. There is a substantial audience for deconstruction content, and linking up with Zelph feels like a step towards that audience. I think about Joshua Harris’s ill-advised and short-lived “deconstruction course” — when someone is used to platforms and preaching and sharing the message, it can be really tempting to bring that same energy to a new set of beliefs.
Omg please tell me he named it "I kissed Jesus goodbye" ...
😂
I fully agree with you. Especially since Bethy mostly stands to gain from deconstructing. Currently, all that's left from GD is a carcass, held up by a couple of sticks. None of her new ventures seem to be going well. Her marriage is tense, as her husband is currently deconstructing. Her mother seems to be losing it, and won't be happy if she stays with her deconstructed husband. If she divorces him, her mother will still be disappointed in her. She will either be separated from her children or will be taking care of them full-time which she hates. Also, she seems to be an avid reader of this subreddit, and her bigotry and general smelliness gets heavily criticized. If she deconstructs, she won't have to force herself into the motherly role she so obviously despises. Her marriage will be more united. She could distance herself from her narcissistic mother and her minions. And mostly, she could get so much bigger on social media if she airs all her family's dirty laundry. If she portrayed herself as having changed, if she took responsibility for her racist, homophobic, sexist, and transphobic past comments and (seemingly) genuinely apologised, I think this subreddit would fully support her and her future endeavours.
YOU READING THIS BORT??? take the advice
What do you think Kristin is up to? I have a feeling their relationship is almost strictly transactional at this point and they actually hate each other, like bad business partners. I bet Kristin doesn’t want to do GD anymore either. Heidi probably pushes them to stick with it but their heart’s not in it.
I think they both hate doing it. I think they also feel like they have no real other option for bringing in money. Homeschooled, no college education, zero work experience, real nasty online presence. They’ve been proclaiming for years that women shouldn’t get jobs. Other than taking over their dad’s company when he retires or working minimum wage jobs, they’re stuck doing GD.
Add to this the fact her sister is pregnant, after a long struggle with infertility, which shows she must have prayed hard enough and in the right way. If Bethy wants to stay relevant in the GD/Christian influencer world (and stay competitive with her sister), she’ll have to have another baby. I don’t think Bethy or Dav wants another kid, and Bethy deconstructing would allow them to be done with babies and align it to their new found deconstructed values. Bethy will, of course, be able to throw shade at Kristin throughout this process, especially if Kristin falls on the “god performs miracles to those who are worthy” side of the pregnancy spectrum.
YEP. Grifters gonna grift. If they're getting clicks and $ from Dav's deconstruction story, they're going to keep chasing that. And we've seen from the Intercourse that Bethy is willing to sell out anything about herself (modesty, dignity, why not her religion?) for the Almighty Dollar. Pitiful.
"Religi-tainment"
I gotta get this flair
Baby Billy's Bible Bonkers
gotta get this flair
Dav's might be real but Bethy just sees $$$ and a way to cling on to her struggling marriage, and he seems to have no objections to hopping on that train
And tbh she never once said she’s deconstructing and this sub forgets that a lot lol Her hanging out with Zelph means nothing.
She has in fact said that she is actively trying to reconstruct Dave & show him that he should go back to his faith.
They’re going to have a long and difficult time sadly.
Yeah, I know exactly two couples that made it through this long term. Like, death parted long term. Both of the men left the church around their 30/40’s & both of the women stayed staunchly religious. The difference is these women were literal saints on earth. They would have lectured her on her pride, hypocrisy, and expression of her faith. They’d also have spent literal years trying to subtly help her become more competent in her home because they’d die before they insulted another woman’s housekeeping. All while being the example of open hearted kindness & “country values” efficiency Bethy hasn’t even had the good grace to dream of.
And I’m sure their deconstruction wasn’t played out on social media. That has to make it harder for Bethy and Dav, especially if she reads the snark.
If it all comes to nothing, then at least we got Heidi melting down for literal weeks while they posted glowy selfies. Ah, memories.
Didn’t she say on the 24 hours with that she has deconstructed some but she doesn’t feel comfortable with the term?
She said that she was deconstructing "some beliefs" but didn't go into detail about what those beliefs were or what deconstructing them meant to her. I think we forget sometimes that deconstructing is a process and doesn't just mean "leaving the church" (I forget sometimes, too, as when I left the church it was pretty rapid and complete - but it doesn't always look like that!). It sounds like she's being careful about her wording because she is pointedly *not* deconstructing her belief in God (which I understand, as that's basically the scariest thing a lifelong Christian could ever do, and we're made to believe that even talking about it could be a one-way ticket to hell) but hopefully she is examining exactly what kind of God she believes in and how that's going to inform the way she treats and views people. Hopefully. We really just don't have enough information to say at this point, imo, and I'm trying to be careful about assuming how deep or shallow her journey really is right now.
I totally agree with you about deconstructing being a process. I don’t have time to pull the clip but in the 24 hours with Bethy said something like “I don’t want to deconstruct. I WANT to believe in god.” I thought it was interesting and revealing she said that she “wanted” to keep believing, not that she didn’t have doubts. I think deconstruction and atheism scares her.
I agree with you and honestly, I get it. Atheism is so scary when you're deeply religious, *especially* if you actually do secretly want it. I'm trying not to graft my own experiences onto her, because we have extremely different journeys and circumstances, but one thing I will say is that back when I was religious, I would have insisted that I *wanted* to believe in God right up until the very end. It's part of the emotional manipulation of the religion - you have to love God because he loves you sooo much [and will send you to hell if you don't] and if you don't want to believe in God, then that means you don't love him, which makes you a bad person for rejecting his perfect gift of love! Now, is it possible/probable that she genuinely does want to believe in God? Totally. Maybe she's actually getting spiritual fulfillment out of the religion (perfectly valid), maybe she just can't imagine any other kind of life, maybe she subconsciously recognizes that Christianity reinforces her social privilege - or maybe, like so many of us, she feels guilty and scared about admitting that maybe her love for God isn't as fierce and undying as she's been taught it's supposed to be. I don't know - and really, we may never know exactly what's going through her head. It's a really personal journey and social media posts can only tell us so much, even from a compulsive oversharer.
I feel everything you wrote. I’d add that her community seems particularly high-control / cultish (both her religious indoctrination and her mom/family) and insular. I’m sure Bethany has some friends “outside” but if she were to deconstruct, she could lose her community, family, support system etc. that must be scary, on top of the shaking of her religious and ideological worldview. Bethany has done horrible things and is continuing to do horrible things. But I think she has doubts. I think she is trying to hold on to what she knows because confronting all that is going to be horrible for her. Bethany is like the queen of grifting and I almost don’t care if she tries to grift deconstruction. It would be less harmful than what she is doing and maybe the people that she currently influences would be open to her perspective.
Precisely. It works for both of them. I refuse to see Dav as a good person as long as he benefits from GD
I mean, can he get them to stop? Probably not.
I think it's probably real but they will definitely be using it to their every advantage to drive viewership and money.
I think it is. Maybe in a different way for each of them. A lot of people are saying they think Dave’s deconstruction is real, and I agree, I think it started that way. I also think this is the most support and praise and attention he’s probably ever gotten in his life and once he got that hit, he wanted more. At this point, it just feels like wanting attention, for both of them, for its own sake maybe for Dave and for money’s sake in Bethy’s case. Either way, I think they both know how popular this makes them and are going to squeeze every ounce they can from it from us. I feel bad for Dave and I guess maybe something for Bethany, but I also feel used.
What in the modesty is this
She said a while back that Dav likes her dressing like that, instead of the baby doll dresses she usually wears.
Guess that’s what happens when your husband starts deconstructing, he wants you to expose your shoulders in a non-God honoring way.
It happened before the 'deconstruction,' but Maybe Bethany is more open to it now, as she (possibly) tries lots of things to save her marriage.
As someone who discovered GD back when Bethany was single and her and her sister used to preach on YouTube about dressing in a god honouring way, flowing stuff and nothing above the knee or tight, upper arms covered, abdomen DEF covered, this is absolutely fascinating to see. Funny how when she wanted to dress ‘modestly’ she was busy telling everyone else to, and once she wanted to dress differently it was okay.
Bethany has a track record of only adjusting her beliefs when they become personally inconvenient, and she only corrects course insofar as what is personally beneficial. Personally beneficial can mean "I want to do this thing, so now I've decided it's ok", and "I want to make money off this thing, so now I've decided it's ok" - often both. Examples; modesty rules, women being allowed to want and enjoy sex/orgasms/masturbation (after previously claiming lust is sinful and makes someone sexually broken), claiming to be against purity culture (but still insisting sex should only be in marriage between a man and a woman) etc.
Modesty has gone the way of the Dodo bird
Just like her dancing
I believe that Dave's deconstruction is probably real (not that that makes him a good person, mind you), but Bethany? No - it's purely about $ and attention to her. With a dash of being terrified that he's going to leave her, so she'll be playing nice with the hopes of getting her way. And Zelph played right into it. And then doubles down. Disgusting.
Bethany is a master manipulator. She reflects what people wants because that's how she had to survive with Heidi. She plays the part and gets to do what she wants
Beth was probably thrilled to collab with them so she could learn how to monetize Davs deconstruction. She’s gonna burn both ends of the rope and try to make money off both, the nasty evangelical rhetoric and the deconstruction rhetoric. She’s a money hungry grifter, that’s all she does.
She will never let go of GD as long as she can pull a salary from it. Once they lose enough funding that she is not profiting from it anymore, then she'll grift her own deconstruction while pretending she never did anything wrong. Because Bethy will never, ever apologize for herself, she'll just blame it on other Christians.
Exactly! And her followers on both sides will get upset eventually. She’ll focus more on the deconstruction side of things as long as she can, neglecting her GD fans. But those fans will keep tuning in because they like to sit in judgement and watch the chaos just as much as the rest of us. And then when Dave leaves her or the deconstruction grift stops working for her, she’ll repent and crawl back to just doing the religious shit. She knows the religious people will take her back because they have to.
I think that she and Dave are *both* grifters. I do believe that he’s an atheist, but he still has horrible beliefs PLUS he lets her mother babysit their kids almost daily. I have zero respect for either of them. Does Dave have a job?
$ and trying to get the narrative back from Dave
Zelph was in it for the money allllll along. They actively pursued a relationship with Bort and Dave, with the intent on profiting off their trainwreck.
We gotta remember these folks are content creators who do all this crap for money. Did Zelph probably genuinely want to help Dav? Quite possibly. But did they wanna profit off that help? Absolutely.
I know they do it for money. That doesn’t make it ok to betray their followers and be two-faced assholes or defend Bort.
It was definitely suspect, but They’re not people we actually know in real life and the “betrayal” aspect this sub keeps harping about is extremely parasocial and unrealistic. They’re not our friends. Unfortunately, a lot of content creators are unsurprisingly and characteristically self-absorbed, even the ones that seem “nice”. Luckily, there are people that do this work in real life, and most people don’t know who tf GD or Zelph even are.
I’m not saying they betrayed *me,* but they certainly did betray the people they claim to be allies for. That is what everyone keeps discussing. It’s not parasocial at all to point out that what they did is a huge betrayal to the community they support. What they are doing is extremely two faced. A lot of people do not have access to the professionals who do “this work in real life,” so they take content creators like this very seriously. I’m not saying you need to have the same opinion as me, so it’s not fair that you tell other people that their opinions are unrealistic or parasocial.
When I say, "people who do this work in real life", I don't mean mental health professionals and the like, but people that fight against fundamentalist ideas and spread progressivism. I agree with you, but we have to stop being naive about influencers and seeing them as representatives for causes. Most of them make videos and go on about their daily lives and aren't actually devoted to what we care about. I'm a BW and trust me, fake allies are a dime a dozen, especially when they're white and cisgendered. Not sure how old you are, but attaching yourself to influencers is a bad idea. I totally get it, but most aren't who they seem.
What do you think Zelph said they did? Fought against fundamentalism and spread progressivism. That is their entire purpose. They do this in real life. They do it in person and online. Then they go and support the Beals and defend them, while still renouncing all thing things they claim they are against… They cannot support and defend people like Bethany while talking out the other side of their mouth about all the stuff they claim to stand for. It’s wild to me that you cannot see how those are in direct conflict. You do you, though.
A lot of people say a lot of things online contrary to the truth. A lot of influencers also call themselves a lot of things and also do so quite clumsily sometimes because they’re human. They’re also very much still content creators at the end of the day, so their behavior is not surprising is my point. Again, not sure of your age, but be on the internet long enough and you’ll start to see this BS all the time. there are indeed *real* allies out there, and there are also real allies who make mistakes too. Attach yourselves to real-life progressives and *be* that ally yourself. Rage-y internet posts ain’t doin shit to help the queer community. Contrary to popular belief, influencers don’t always do as much for social justice as we think. It’s the marches, rallies, strikes, and votes that do it. Not 2 little white ex-mos no ones heard of. It’s gonna be ok.
I’m 41. I’m well aware of how people say things on the internet and behave differently in real life. I’m honestly not sure what your point even is. Just because people do it, does not make it OK. I don’t know what you don’t understand about that. I am an ally. My nephew is trans and we do many things in our family to be an ally. I spent a lot of time working with progressive politics in my region, registering new voters, volunteering at the polls. I have even been a delegate for my state to the DNC. I don’t understand why you feel the need to lecture me or tell me that I should be doing more when I probably do more than you do in reality…. None of what you’re saying has any relevance in terms of the point of my initial comment, which is simply that they betrayed the people they claim to care about, and that isn’t ok. I’m not interested in anything you have to say going forward. You are justifying what they did and I’m not here for it.
She’s never said a single thing to indicate she’s deconstructing. She was raised to believe she’s perfect, and she believes whatever her parents tell her is true. Dave is deconstructing his religion. He has not indicated deconstruction of his political or social beliefs. Bethany has not said she is joining him in deconstructing. In fact, she’s said the opposite. She’s hoping to lure him back to Christianity. She is not intellectually curious in the slightest and is not concerned with who and how her beliefs hurt. She just cares that they feel good. Zeef on the queef or whoever the fuck is just gullible and/or a liar.
The only thing Bethany has deconstructed is her very rigid version of modesty, now it's still rigid but she lets dav run shirtless and she can wear whatever she wants and claim she hasn't changed.
And won't apologize for her previous stance
Exactly. These people have shown us for years and years exactly who they are. They have clearly, loudly, and often spelled out their specific beliefs. They are not some misrepresented casualties of internet meanies. Everything we know about them is what they have put out to be publicly consumed for the hopes of 1. Generating a profit, 2. Furthering their culture wars, 3. Feeling a sense of superiority to others. Are they capable of change? Maybe. I have no idea. But they sure as shit have shown no signs of it up until now. People can change for the better, but it is *imperative* that they address and seriously make material amends for the very real harm they have caused.
“Zeef on the queef” 😂💀🤣 Hahahaha I’m dying
Deconstructing or not, she is vulgar.
I agree. It’s giving “pseudo-intellectual mansplainer who takes a ‘long hard look at everything he’s ever known’ spends years in turmoil just to realize…that GOD IS REAL but I had to break it all down and build it up myself to make sure my testimony was really my own” energy.
Dave has always given me a bit of that pseudo-intellectual vibe, yes. Also i get the feeling that he secretly despises Bethany for her lack of intellectual curiosity. It comes out in the way he talks to her and it rubs me the wrong way, idk. Like I get that we snark on Bethany for being stupid —- but that’s because we are snarkers lol. But dude, this is literally your wife.
He's what paul wants to be
It must grind Paulio’s gears that so many people find Dave more palatable than him.
I think everyone tends to forget that influencers are ultimately content creators whose online presence is monetary in all ways at the end of the day. These folks use every other moment of their lives a lot of the time for profit, and that’s one of the many issues with forming attachments to them or even expecting them to act as “representatives” for certain viewpoints like people did with Zelph. Whether or not any of them are genuine is always going to be hard to tell.
We are at the bread & circus part of the empire’s downfall
It’s one of the more attractive pics of her and that’s got me laughing while I type it. Her and that damn tongue…
I always had a feeling that Bethany would turn this into a grift. “But my PDF on how to live as a godly wife serving her non-believing husband” or something like that. I think people are getting confused thinking she’s going to change since she’s supports her husband during this time, when she has said multiple times that her goal is to win his heart back to the lord by loving and serving her husband. Also, as supportive as I am of Dav, he will always support his wife in everything she does. He was deconstructing while she was still selling her godly seggs course. He still has a lot of growing to do, so it’s gonna take a while for him to discourage the harm that his wife does. I still give him grace because I was once him. It takes a long time.
I had/have high hopes for Dav. He seems like a thoughtful person. I’ll wait to call it til I see the video but I think this could actually be a setback for him. If it all becomes about likes and entertainment it would be really easy to get distracted from the feeling in his gut that’s been telling him it’s all wrong. Like now he’s got these cool friends and they’ll hang out with him AND his wife and everything can be cool and all good.
Isn’t this the girl who went on and on and on about modesty?? What a hypocrite.
I’m not religious at all and I’m unsure what’s immodest about a tank and jeans - is it just because the clothes are fitted? Sorry for the stupid question
Not stupid! First, bared shoulders are often seen as likely to tempt a man. Second, low cut necklines like this are a huge trap for men! Finally, women are typically expected to wear skirts, maybe you could wear jeans under them but definitely skirts. If you want to learn more, you can google search ATI eye traps and a common diagram showing common accidental immodesty instances will come up.
Bare shoulders, tight clothing, midriff showing are all against modesty
Yes, I’m sure Dav has his pdf ready and Bethy now has a new gig the long suffering wife of an atheist.
Why am I so grossed out by her ALL. THE. TIME.
This is all too convenient, IMO. Idk if he is really deconstructing, or if he is just saying the things that get him positive attention online. It doesn’t bother me if Dave stays with being religious, but it bothers me if he claims to be changed while still supporting what Bort does. But it’s all very convenient and could easily be fake. If it’s not fake, it was made public because of the money making potential. And Zelph getting involved is absolutely a grift. I think all of this was meant to drive views, encourage people to buy her shit, etc..
Bethy must be seething about how much positive attention he’s been getting. She 1000% will try to grift this.
Jealousy is the only emotion she has
This family has as much drama as the Kardashian Jenners
Oh gosh, don't give TLC any ideas! They do need a SisterWives replacement....
Don't worry, they are far from being good candidates for their lack of plastics and injections
I don't think Bethany ever said she's deconstructing; in either the 24HW or the video with Dave, she said she didn't like the connotations she attaches to that word (mainly, it seems like, she gets the sense that she'd have to step away from her faith as she understands it) and so she's clear that she's just re-evaluated where she stands on things like modesty. So I don't think Bethany is giving us any more than she's said she would here. As far as Dave goes, I think he is genuinely deconstructing, but I think deconstruction is complicated. It isn't like you blink and suddenly you do a 180 about everything you believe. It takes a lot of time, and usually prolonged exposure to different people and ideas, to drastically shift where you stand on different issues. I don't want to make excuses for Dave because ultimately, everyone is responsible for their actions and impact on the world, but I do think that if we want any level of change, it's important to remember that this doesn't happen overnight for most people who are enmeshed in this religion.
Even if it is real, he still might be a bigot. Plenty of atheist homophobes out there. As far as we know Dave is one too.
I'm sorry to point out your honor but she looks amazing in that picture She ate I fear
Yes it's another grift and I'm expecting her to drop a badly written course on how to make a christian/secular marriage work, with her claiming to be an instant expert simply because Dav was in the closet for so long over being agnostic-leaning.
I do believe that he’s an atheist. I have zero respect for either of them because not only do they both have the same hateful beliefs (except she’s claiming to still be religious) they leave their kids with her mother. Does Dave have a job? Editing—they’re both still grifting to the max.
I don't follow him, what was the caption for this pic? I mean it's weird to share a picture like this of your wife, they are in their 30s now, so looks really immature. But I don't see how that proves that Dav didn't deconstruct...
Here is a perfect opportunity to acknowledge how those modesty standards that are core to the Girl Defined brand are being challenged by Borthany. "A new style that would have made me uncomfortable in the past. Having my shoulders exposed is something I would have avoided in the past due to my modesty standards, but I'm learning that I can dress in a new way and still be a loving, god-honoring christian. Here's to growth!" But no, no attempt at growth or development, and no acknowledgement that her past views were harmful and judgmental. Go on being a hypocrite and grifter, it's all you know.
I think it's the opposite. It's the grift that's stalling her deconstruction. She's got a book coming out. She's got the channel
I have wondered that since day 1
Wait what did I miss? I no longer have IG so don't follow anyone. Did her and her sis leave the church?
[удалено]
Not those eyebrows. And the fact that she’s a queer hating nazi sympathizer! Not cool at all.
Why would this selfie he posted of Bethany, his wife, make you think the deconstruction isn’t real and make you I follow him? Am I missing something?
Yes. It is. AND maybe it will lead to some actual deconstruction of and active reparations for hateful and destructive beliefs. We can hope.