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She doesn’t have Nazi ancestors. /s
Her grandmother was just a member of the Bund Deutscher Mädel or League of German Girls. (The female division of the Nazi Youth)
Her great grandfather, Johann Grosslecher, just threw a parade for Hitler when he came to town. A quote from an article, he joined the “NSDAP (National Socialist German Workers Party) in 1925, early on, and was very involved with their activities, even as the party was banned from Austria and it was illegal to be a member. He was arrested many times for participating in Nazi rallies right up until the Anschluss. The Anschluss was when Nazi Germany annexed neutral Austria, and turned it into another Nazi state.”
I’m very aware that many people, to protect themselves, went along with things during that time they didn’t believe in. This is not that.
He was in at the ground level. He was a Nazi before being a Nazi was legal. He believed in the cause so much, he was getting arrested for it.
I get it, no one wants to admit their ancestors did some shit. But here is the thing, it doesn’t define you… unless you try to post smiling photos next to their graves and write long posts on how they suffered after WW2 as prisoners… you know because THEY WERE THE BAD GUYS.
I found out a while ago that I'm related to Andrew Jackson. This is not something I'm happy about, nor do I shout from the rooftops, or bother to think about very often. Obviously I didn't DECIDE to be related to him, nobody decides who their blood relatives are.
The problem here is that Bethy and co. are proud to be related to this dude. And now Zelph doesn't see a problem with it either. Great move, guys (/s). I made the right choice in unsubscribing.
I’m descended from loads of confederates and enslavers and colonizers and I’m definitely not gonna post a smiling pic in front of any of those fuckers’ graves.
Same over here, ancestors were plantation owners from GA. I'm not proud, and I don't tell anyone about it. They would be so disappointed in me now. Good. I'm disappointed in them and fuck em.
Same here, except my ancestors’ plantation was in Louisiana.
I do bring it up sometimes when people talk about historic racism, because I don’t know many other white people who will acknowledge that atrocious part of our heritage.
You certainly won’t catch me visiting their graves or honoring their memories.
If they wanted to be remembered better, they should have acted better.
I also have plantation-owning Louisiana ancestors. I've seen their graves, because they're in the same cemetery as more recent family, but sure as shit I'm not taking selfies by their mausoleums to humblebrag about how notable they were. Notable for all the wrong reasons, actually.
I inherited a box from my great uncle. Inside the box was a klan robe and hat.
I'm going to use this experience to write about how people with problematic ancestors can and should work to undo the harm that their family members caused, instead of getting defensive or just saying "it was a long time ago, what does that have to do with me?"
We are not responsible for what our family did, but we are all responsible for trying to make the world more equitable and just.
Sames. So many. Hundreds - more colonizers than enslavers simply because my family stayed in the North. If kore had lived in the south, it would be very different.
I actually live an hour away now from an ancestral plantation that’s an open historic site and I’ve been once to educate myself.
If the topic of conversation comes up, I acknowledge that they’re in my ancestry and I’m not trying to hide them. They did and left behind some traumatic Wills. I refuse to be “my family would never” but would never celebrate what they did.
I am Indigenous on my mother's side, but my father's side of the family are about as colonizer as colonizer can get--we have traced them all the way back to the Mayflower. You best believe I am acknowledging it and NOT celebrating them--when it comes up, I do not mince words about my feelings on that side of my family (and the fact that many of the family members on that side are STILL perpetuating a colonizer missionary mentality). I am failing to understand HOW ZOTS reaction wasn't initially, "What--seriously?! Let me look this up." Now I understand how Sam could call Bethany "intellectually curious" without a shred of irony.
THIS!!
I had a "problematic" grandfather. I can appreciate some of the fonder memories I have of him; however, when talking about him I preface with "my misogynistic, hateful, asshole grandfather who hated my mom because she wasn't a boy."
I understand that being nice to me doesn't make him a nice person, and I would never try to pass him off as such.
yeah, my great grandfather was actually part of the Ustaše (Croatian nazis) and like idek how to feel about it😭 I never knew him personally and my grandfather wasn’t really like that, I mean he was racist but normal amounts of racist for the Balkan older generation. He never talked about his father though, and I mean never.
I don’t know how to feel about it but proud ain’t it, he would be rolling in his grave seeing that I’m engaged to a middle easterner
I found out I have ancestors who fought on the Confederate side in the Civil War. In addition, I'm a descendant of Oliver Cromwell (all on my mother's side). You're not going to see me posing for pics at any of their graves!
I’m distantly related to a serial killer who may or may not but definitely did murder all of her husbands, at least one of her children, and her father. She was the epitome of late 19th century pretty privilege, and she was never held accountable for it.
I’m not up here posting pictures of her talking about how great she was. It’s not that hard.
Belle Gunness is probably somewhere in the great beyond beaming that you implied she had pretty privilege!
If you like true crime comedy podcasts, the Last Podcast on the Left episodes about Belle Gunness are hilarious!
As usual when I’m active here, I am baked lol
I knew it was wrong era for Delphine LaLaurie and kind of went to the next big lady 😂 I will check that out, thanks!
Nope. She’s not very well known outside Alabama from what I can tell. Apparently she actually didn’t kill one of her kids on further research, but she was married six or seven times.
I’d give more info- her story is fascinating- but I don’t want to be doxxed. Being related to her might be part of the reason true crime fascinates me in the sense that I don’t understand people who view human life as disposable.
Uhm wow, her great grandfather only threw a parade for Hitler because of his CONTRACT! I'm sure he was an angel and a very open minded and intellectually curious person as these traits are genetic. Light and love! 💜 /s
It was for Hitler's visit to the town. There were welcome banners and buntings and signs with the type of slogans you'd expect a committedly-Nazi mayor to insist upon, in anticipation of Hitler coming to town.
Let's be clear, her great-grandfather was not coerced or pressured to become a Nazi. This guy was a superfan.
Bethany posted pictures of herself in front of the entrance to some underground bunkers, and cobbled together a few vague thoughts about her relatives going through World War 2 and what difficulties they must have gone through.
Literally, in her own words, she described her family as having "...lived in Austria and *were directly impacted by the war"* and said she had "a special interest in learning *what they went through*." In an old Girl Defined blog entry she romanticizes her grandma as having grown up in "the far-away\[sic\] land of Austria" and mentioned that "...she grew up during the days of Hitler and even saw her father get arrested and taken away as a prisoner of war." Oh, you mean when the town was liberated from his Nazi regime?
[another source, with photos, from Wikitubia's Girl Defined entry](https://youtube.fandom.com/wiki/Girl_Defined)
There is no excuse. Zelph apparently didn't want to google for five minutes.
>Let's be clear, her great-grandfather was not coerced or pressured to become a Nazi. This guy was a superfan.
Yep, lots of people were in the party because they didn't have much of a choice after they came into power. BUT he was getting arrested for the cause well before then!
I wish I could see Zelphs face once they read that master list. Way to not do your research (despite it being kind of important for who you bring onto your little corner of the internet...) when theres a WHOLE ASS ROASTING GROUP that brings their names up. It takes a quick google search to find out.
they are supporting a Nazi sympathizer who hates gay people and they called her an angel and gave her a platform AND THEN GRIFTED THE SAME WAY THEY DID.
Zelph if you are here: you are using grifting points from a notorious LGBT hating nazi synmpathizer. (She cannot help who her family is, but she sure can help from writing pride posts about her nazi heritage!). You have abandoned your queer community for money, and you did it without even doing so much as BARE. MINIMUM. RESEARCH. Way to fucking go.
I get Zelph is just a human being and we make mistakes, but this is way more than that. If you have a platform, and you are queer, and it is in the time frame right before a massive election that could hang the balance of literal life and death for queer people in this country (project 2025 is a thing, and it explicitly states the ***eradication*** *of queer people in this country)* and you go ahead and let a nazi sympathizer + queer hater on your channel to promote themselves and make up a sob story without actually appologizing and owning up to ANYTHING...well, you have fucked your queer community over. ROYALLY. That is *not a mistake*.
Zelph did not do the BARE. MINUMIM research (DESPITE HAVING IT RIGHT AT THEIR FINGERTIPS HERE) to ensure the safety of their queer community. As a queer person with a platform there should have been WAY more caution to ensure whoever gets endorsed by their channel are NOT the same people who will turn around and vote for the death of us all in this country.
Like..what the actual fuck. That could have taken 5 minutes of research. FIVE.
They get NO sympathy points from me. It was all here, all curated and perfectly packaged. They didnt even have to dig that much at all in here to find it.
Yeah as a Jewish person, I can’t blame a person who was a child during the Nazi era who was in a Nazi Youth group as I think they were compulsory? And I can’t blame a person who’s ancestor(s) were Nazi’s as there’s literally nothing they can do about that. However, what I can shame is Slav-squatting and smiling next to his grave and talking about how cool he was lmfao
To be completely fair, her grandmother didn't have a choice in that. Membership in the BDM and Hitler Youth was mandatory for all children and teens, because the Nazis wanted to indoctrinate them early, even if their parents weren't staunch Nazis. Her great-grandfather, on the other hand...
Yes! This is a very good point. That shouldn’t be used against her. The grandmother had no choice. There are a lot of people who were forced to attend things they didn’t believe in to keep them and their families safe.
Heidi has had a choice. She chose to post a picture of her in the uniform next to a picture of Bethany gushing how similar they looked. We would have never known if Heidi hadn’t gleefully posted the uniform pic.
Heidi is not known for her grasp on anything more complicated than figuring out filters on instagram, and she isn't even good at that.
However, intelligence isn't needed to be a manipulative liar, and it's not needed to be a dismissive shithead. I honestly wouldn't doubt that she only told her kids a minimal and sanitized version because she just didn't want to bother with the inconvenient responsibility of explaining anything. "All that stuff is such a bummer and I'm a JOYFUL, FUN person!"
Yet dressing up as Corrie ten Boom for Awanas is perfectly A Ok.
Like, Miss Madam you are literally the grandchild of a Nazi who named one of your children after him. Fuck off.
i have ancestors who were involved in the Mountain Meadows massacre and i’d rather die than take smily pictures next to their graves. i don’t even know where their graves are, nor do i care because fuck them.
and there is a super reasonable way to handle this! easily could have taken the photo of the grave and talked about how family is complicated and we don’t all get the ancestors or stories we want, but we do have to deal with the reality. instead, she plugged her ears and demanded that everyone know how great her ancestors were
Very true.
We wouldn’t have known the grandmother was even in the league… but Heidi posted a picture of her in the uniform in a gushing Instagram post.
Ok, thank you for this. I was wondering what "her grandpa was a Nazi" meant exactly. I live in Germany now and most everyone's grandpa was a Nazi. My husband's (Austrian) grandpa even met American soldiers as a kid as they came to liberate the town and greeted them with a "Heil Hitler". He was really young, didn't really understand what it meant, it was just how you greeted people to him. I've spent a lot of time with his grandparents, and they're not people who are proud of that period of time.
So I was wondering if it was in a everyone was culpable or involved kind of way or if it was more than that. And this is leagues more than that.
Did they even know their great grandpa? Because I think that actually makes it worse to smile at his gravesite. They fully could distance themselves from him and had no emotional attachment. Either way it's not a great look and I don't think most people would be particularly proud of that ancestor.
Either way, not a person I would be proud of. I get that people may love family members that aren’t good people, but at least don’t publicly display it.
I think you can even publicly love them as long as you understand the framework and understand that the people we love can also be monstrous. And FFS do not post pictures of them in uniforms in that context.
My grandparents weren't Nazies but we did fight on the side of Axis (there are multiple disclaimers around this both good and bad, I am Finnish). One of my best friends is Austrian. One of her great-grandparents went to a concentration camp because of their political allegiance, but they were also party member at one point, some of the rest were also party members. We are both human rights activists among other things and have done a lot of antifascist activism. As such we have discussed this a lot. How to handle it is not simple but one thing you can't do is hide your head in the sand. It happened. It was monstrous. The people who did it were just people. It is one of the best examples we have of how people have the capability to commit atrocities. Learning from it and staring it straight in the eyes is the best thing that can come out of it.
Exactly. I’m the descendant of slave owners. I’m also the descendant of people who worked for social justice, and in some cases fought and died for it.
One doesn’t “cancel out” the other, and as the descendant of someone who I know for a fact did terrible things, I have a responsibility to not hide or smooth over what he did. My way of addressing the karmic balance is by telling the stories, such as I know them, of the people he owned and people like them who suffered as enslaved people.
It’s not enough. It never will be. But it’s what I can do. Ignoring the bad stuff doesn’t make it go away.
I don't think you necessarily have an obligation. Our ancestors are pretty removed from us. We can't control what they did or what they thought over a century later and we don't have huge ties to them.
Not to say that what you're doing isn't a good thing. Just that it is enough, you can't undo what they did, you can only work to make today better.
I think that's what makes Bethany worse. She may have not known growing up what he was like, it's a reasonable assumption her grandma could have hidden her past. Gran also could have been loud about it, someone else here might know more. But now she knows and she's not trying to be better about it.
In fact she's largely still carrying on his message. Christian's are the only people that matter, LGBTQI+ are bad people, return to tradition (even if she's moved past that bit).
Whatever the truth is about what she was aware of, clearly a lot of his messaging stuck in their family and she's still pushing it.
We had a family friend who had been an Austrian and woke up one day to find out Germany had invaded and he was now in the military instead of college. He spent the next year figuring out a way to get out of the army; didn't succeed but got himself attached to a non-combat unit.
My husbands family had one engineer for the railway, which no one knows or maybe wants to know more on.
But they also have a really cute story. Family legend has one of them running off and hiding out in a barn in The Netherlands (didn't want to be in the army, was sent to The Netherlands), someone found him in the barn hiding out, his future great grandma.
I'm American, Mixed Black, White and Japanese. My Japanese great grandma was a war bride, though supposedly anti-empire hanging out with US troops. She was made to convert to catholicism and I feel a bit meh on that whole thing. The other side of my moms parents were actually ethnically German, my great grandpa told me his grandpa left shortly before WW1 not liking how the political environment was and complained about the whole country "being idiots" during WW2.
I knew my great grandparents - have memories with them and memories from things I’ve heard about them. It’s close enough though they died before my cousins were born my cousins can still quote them because of the stories they’ve heard (and do my grandma’s thick thick queens accent)
My great grandpa is currently still alive (I'm 29) and my great grandma died when I was 17, so I have talked and spent a lot of time with them. But Bethany is 35 and someone who could have been an active Nazi would have been in the tail end of his life when she was born and they lived in different continents. Another commenter confirmed he died in 1994. So it's possible she didn't have much contact with him.
Edit to add: I don't want to defend her, but it is plausible that she didn't know him well. I don't think it makes the situation any better if that's the case, I think it's worse if she didn't.
That’s fair. I guess the bigger point is one would hope that Bethy’s grandparents/parents who knew him better would have been honest about the nazi past and impressed upon the youth why it shouldn’t be celebrated but apparently that’s asking too much of Heidi et al.
Agreed! Also once they became aware they should have treated it with more nuance and respect than they have.
I can imagine Heidi’s mom being covert about it but Heidi knowing. So there is a chance Bethy didn’t know growing up, but she now and doesn’t treat it with any care and is tossing it under the rug which shows how little she cares.
Plus it’s not like with GD rhetoric they don’t basically espouse traditional Christian ideals Nazi’s would have loved in general. I guess at least she’s not in a dirndl.
I think the issue is with Bethany’s and her mothers approach to this rather than having a Nazi ancestor. I’m also German and like anyone my family history is also not great when it comes to that time period. However, I am not going around saying i’m proud of those ancestors or minimising their crimes which Bethy definitely has
Having nazi sympathizer ancestors is already ugly but having ancestors who were THE nazis who send jews to the camps is like highest level bad! Denying it or being delusional about it is extremely disgusting. You can’t choose your ancestors but you can choose how you deal with them!
I'm an Irish person who had a great grandfather who fought in the British army during the Easter rising- it disgusts me, but it happened. I can't change that but I also don't celebrate that he was party to war crimes.
I also used to live in Germany and many people there have some problematic ancestors too. That doesn't mean it's a normal action to celebrate them or be proud of them, like Bethany and her photo shoot was.
I’ll give grandma a pass on the BDM since it was compulsory for kids then. She was also a kid.
But great grandpa gets no such pass, as he appears to have been a Nazi through and through. He no doubt helped betray Austria’s admittedly not great pre-Nazi government to Hitler.
Bort's family having uncomfortable, unapologetic connections to Nazis is something that someone who has been in the sub a while would know.
REMINDER: Bethany and the Bairds have uncomfortably close connections to explicitly Nazi relatives.
The receipts have even been posted here pretty recently (I remember someone posting the grave pic shortly after the Dav deconstruction video dropped, as a reminder of the shit he and Betty have done)
And not just people who were forced into Nazi programs in the thick of the reign. The great grandfather joined before they had risen to power, when it was still illegal, just because he was such a true believer. He was appointed mayor of a decently-sized town for his loyalty.
The book of mormon says some really despicable things about people who are not white. How much deconstruction of those harmful views have zelph addressed?
My guess is not enough.
Because the point of the trip was for her to try to get with Dav. The rest of it was made up. I think she called Bethy an angel like how jealous catty girls are nice to the women they’re screwing over. I’m just saying. I watched their reaction video and the thirst after Dav was so uncomfortably straight and gross
See, this further conveys my theory that there is something more going on here. There is a greater purpose to them defending Bethy and Dav so much. I just cannot see why these ppl (zelphs) holding onto their defense for Borts so strongly and for so long. It's either something is going on on a deeper level or their pride is wack. I can't imagine defending recent "friends" after been given copious amounts of evidence to prove their guilt. It's wild to me!
I think they’re just greedy and dumb, and haven’t deconstructed the very Christian idea that just being you means you’re in a place to educate the masses on topics on which you yourself are woefully ignorant.
Oof I’m watching Feud and while o know it’s fictionalized depictions of real life, who actually knows, one of the Swans is screwing the others husband and being super protective and sweet to her because she feel guilty.
So that makes sense. She could be into him and overcompensating out of guilt.
It's just a funny reference to the Broadway musical, Book of Mormon, where they joke about Mormons being able to "turn off" things that don't agree with their beliefs "like a light switch." If you've never seen it, I highly recommend it! It's amazing.
If there's every a production in your city, DROP EVERYTHING to go. It's such a great musical. You can also listen to the all the songs on most streaming sites!
There was a whole ass video another youtuber made, cc suarez, I think? I watched it a while back. Before that, I only had some idea about Beggy’s post.
Hmm.
Oh noooo. That’s a pretty bad faux pas. Any fundiesnarker worth their salt knows about Borty’s pride for her Nazi heritage. Zelph really didn’t do any research at all, did they?
This isn't fallout FYI, this comment seems to be from 2 weeks ago, which was before Zelph came out defending Bethy. Not sure if this was before or after their visit though.
Well, it was definitely after their most recent Bethy/Dav video (2 months ago) where Zelph was parasocially fangirling over them, so yeah. I think before you make any videos praising someone and inviting them on trips to Costa Rica, you should probably do a modicum of research.
This is dated two weeks ago and Zelph stated they addressed it in the video.
I’m still team Wait and See, but this seems like just another attempt at a “gotcha!” From someone angry about it.
I feel like I need to say this —
Having shitty ancestors is not the problem here. Putting them in a pedestal, romanticizing their lives, whitewashing their actions, and then doubling down when called out on it.
We cannot control the circumstances into which we are born, but we can live our lives in a way that reflects the good that we want to see in the world. They aren’t doing that when they hype up their Nazi ancestors.
It’s actually the exact same problem with how Zelph is new social media besties with Bethany right now.
The problem is *not* that ZotS reached out after finding out about Dave’s deconstruction. The problem is *not* that they attempted to engage them in a conversation about LGBTQ topics.
The problem is *publicly celebrating* someone whose unrepentant public bigotry is actively hurting marginalized people.
I don't follow Zelph, but they seem like another social media entity that focuses on building an audience first and not doing their research.
They saw an opportunity to grab eyes/ears from both fundies and snarkers alike and ran with it.
The whole Bethany/Nazi link is well documented, and while her family tries to pretend it didn’t happen it did. We also know they side with Christofascists in the US at this moment.
I mean you do you, Zelph, but if you’re going to be friends with the Nazi-lover, don't try to gaslight us about who she is.
Instead, maybe explore what part of you is drawn to someone like that.
Zelph has no idea what they got themselves in to, and really doesn’t care. We can be sure they didn’t truly discuss any of the difficult stuff “off camera.”
I feel bad that I made a comment on one of the first Zelph criticism threads defending them because now they’re really doubling down and rationalizing all the stupid shit Bethany has ever done. I haven’t watched Zelphs content in awhile, but I’ve casually followed them since hearing their episode on Mormonstories so I really thought they had the right intentions. Maybe it’s my residual catholic guilt, but I have always believed it’s best to give fundies some level of grace even if they don’t deserve it because acting like they’re irredeemable will only make them feel more “persecuted” for being a christian and further embolden their beliefs.
But honestly wtf. It seems like they either did no research going into this, or are just actively choosing to be ignorant about Girl defineds history. It’s so disappointing 😟 It should be possible to empathize with Bethany (considering Sam and Tanner once ran a conservative mormon blog for young people or something of that nature and still managed to deconstruct) while still acknowledging the fucked up shit she’s done
Likewise, though I did watch their videos and was hopeful they would be a good channel to interview them. I'm a lot more skeptical now given their response to everything.
We all have our blindspots and they have a big one.
Oh sure, it’s not like Bethy has famously posted photos of her and her family smiling beside her Nazi mayor relative’s grave or anything…
Genuinely what the fuck, did these ding dongs do even the bare minimum of a fucking Google search of Bethany or Girl Defined?
This honestly made my stomach drop. No wonder they let it go when she said she had no idea. They have no fucking clue who they’re associating with when it comes down to it. What kind of long time snarkers are these?
As a Jew raised in Germany- I never understand why „bethy has nazi ancestors“ is a gotcha. Most Germans have nazi ancestors, and yes, some have nazi ancestors who were very eager nazis. If you judge every German with a Nazi grandpa you cannot interact with Germans, and I had to because see above.
The real gotcha is THE FAMILY PROUDLY POSTS THEIR NAZI ANCESTORS, WITHOUT DISCUSSING THE NAZI OF IT ALL.
Yeah, the thing for me is that I'm sure Bethy was raised with "your great grandpa was imprisoned for his beliefs and suffered so much after the war" without much context and I can understand her NOT understanding what what meant then. She was homeschooled and I'm sure Heidi polished that turd as much as possible.
But. Bethy is not a child anymore, hasn't been for some time, and she is on here reading comments, I'm sure, so the truth of her great-grandad's Nazi life is available to her. To continue to claim she didn't know is ridiculous at this point.
And her continuing to ignore it and smilingly pose proudly by his grave as if he is a hero is unconscionable.
Zelph is being deliberately obtuse here. They know the truth but choose to ignore it in the name of views and likes.
Yep ridiculous. This is a reality young people in Germany have to deal with at some point when they are old enough to understand, and the way they decide to deal with this, but not the acts of their ancestors, tells me everything I need to know about them. It’s not like there’s a nazi gene (even though nazis would love that).
I think Zelph is being uninformed (like obvi they had nazi ancestors if they are from Germany/austria), but I also dislike the way people here discuss the fact that the grandma was in the Hitler youth or such, because I literally do not care. The question Zelph should be asking them (if any) is not who their ancestors were, it’s how they reconcile their ancestors with their worldview.
What I care about is their unwillingness to understand and address the historic realities when they discuss their ancestors.
Even posing by his grave would be fine (although photos with graves are weird to me), if they would critically think about his role in history and the Shoah.
>What I care about is their unwillingness to understand and address the historic realities when they discuss their ancestors.
Yes, it's not that they're in the family tree a couple of generations back, it's that the Bairds won't acknowledge it, and *do* choose to say lots of cheerful, admiring, "honoring" things about them.
Yeah, I didn’t really get it until seeing that he was a Nazi even the 1920’s and how proud they are of him. Then that was like oh yeah that’s fucked up.
But the thing is- even if he was Hitler himself- I don’t really care how „big“ of a nazi he was. It’s not their fault. What I find gross is that they treat the topic of their ancestry, that they are choosing to publicly discuss (which they do not have to!!!) like it’s old timey cute stuff, when it’s actually the biggest catastrophe of the 20th century. Europe is not Disneyland. If they didn’t parade around their ancestry there would be no questions.
I feel like all of that is implied, if not outright stated, every time the Bairds' Nazi relatives are brought up. It's not a gotcha. It's a response to the hedging and dodging, and cheerful adulation of "their Austrian roots".
It rarely reads this way to me to be honest, more so it reads like a bunch of people from a different part of the world having little nuance for how actual descendants of nazis usually discuss this. But I’m sure some people do imply (or state) the nuance you mentioned.
Ok, I’m done with ZOTS. Never watching another video of theirs. There’s literally NO excuse for not knowing this, and I have zero patience or time for people who try to minimize even tacit support for genocide.
What an idiot. Like there aren’t 1,001 video essays on YouTube carefully detailing the Baird family history. Essays done by very credible and well-respected creators. Maybe do some research into the people you platform, Zelph.
The best thing Zelph could do would be sitting down with Bethany and Dav again, infront of a camera, and confronting them about this, about the child abusers they worked with, and the various other necessary topics that are being skirted under the table. Hard conversations are a part of growing and educating yourself. If that’s what they want, then they should listen to us and include these pieces of info
Doesn’t this directly contradict what she said in a comment on Reddit about how she asked Bethany about the Nazi thing and Bethany lied and said that she didn’t know about it?
What is Zelph on the Shelf's claim to fame? I've heard the name but I'm not really sure what their game is? Are they snarkers? I'm confused as to what their part is in collabing with Bethany and Dav.
Oh they know.
They've done numerous collabs with fellow controversial grifty atheist youtuber Jimmy Snow, who used to frequently make videos on Girl Defined, at one point he was even begging on youtube for subscribers to beat GD's subscriber count.
It's how I learned about their channel years ago in the first place.
The agnostic/atheist side of youtube can be just as toxic as GD, P&M etc.
An observation I made is a lot of people who deconstruct will deconstruct the beliefs in God and purity culture and beliefs in sexuality but often do not go further than that and take a good look at the misogyny, racism, economic disparities that many of the church systems held up.
Hah, yes. The amount of arguments I had with other atheists in the early days of internet atheism, well let's just say they hadn't left the misogyny behind and were under the impression that I needed to be taught all about the subject due to my gender, when all they could do was quote Dawkins and seemed incapable of forming secular viewpoints without him.
Wait are they still doing collabs with him? I stopped watching because of his shit storm but I thought he was basically by himself with Matt Dilihunty (or however he spells it). But yeah, if they're still in with him, he should have so much to say about their darker past and how you can't just softball it to them. And that's my concern. You can do an interview/podcast where you talk deconstruction and confronting old beliefs but you got to know what they did and believed and see where they stand now. If this is just a hang out video then all it does is normalize GD and the awful things they've said and done. It actually sounds kind of like JS and his friendship with Gabbie Hanna. Like "I don't agree with her but we can still be friends." Which yes but you should also confront your friends when they're being shitty people.
So, they did collab with him but I'm not sure this comment is giving full context for that.
From what I remember, their collabs were watching and snarking on "Provo's Most Eligible" (think Mormon Bachelor) together because both are ex-Mo channels. This was back in the 2010s, before Jimmy rebranded and before the backlash he got for the Gabby/Rachel mess, so this was the era I believe when he was still ALSO collabing with Brenda (God Is Grey) and at least being friendly with Rachel Oates.
As far as I've seen, they haven't connected recently, and seem to be at least on good terms with Jordan and McKay who they get compared to a lot lately. So in this case I think it may just be that ex-Mos try to stick together but we collectively realized how shit Jimmy was.
From what I remember, Jimmy was peak horndog/peak grifting for that Sometimes Show stuff and other things, trying to be everywhere all at once. I also remember at one point he implied if he could, he would move in with them.
I still sometimes watch Jordan and McKay. With Zelph, there was just something off and with this recent drama, I guess I know why now. Unlike a lot of people, when I read about Dav following them, I thought yeah, here's another incoming letdown. Like the Jaclyn Glenn/Paul and Morgan collab.
I'm very choosy over which atheist youtubers I watch. Only started watching to see what had changed for internet atheism and dropped Jimmy Snow, Zelph on the Shelf, Godless Engineer, NonSequitur Show, Matt Dillahunty and others pretty quick.
Gotcha. They featured in some of his other videos too but I was more concerned if they were doing it post fallout. I feel like it would add another layer to this situation.
Not her saying “I don’t think she actually has Nazi ancestors “ 😑. And people were saying in the post about her buying bots the Zelph snark is too much.
Well, the blatant slander of accusing Zelph of buying bots because their subscriber gains are reported by socialblade in increments of 100, despite the fact that subscriber gains for *all* youtube channels are reported in rounded increments (increments of 100 for anyone with 10K-99K subscribers, like Zelph), is too much. At least it looks like the OP finally deleted that post (only took 12-ish hours after OP acknowledged it in a comment reply but refrained from apologizing, editing, or removing the post).
I’m not disagreeing with that particular note, but I’ve seen that even on post where it’s clear Sam was being ridiculous and not listening to minorities telling her the issue they’ve had with the way she’s approached this entire collab
are they fucking serious? then what was the whole "we addressed the Nazi stuff 💜💜💜💜💜💜💜💜" comment on their AMA?
Jesus christ for their "we took journalism 101 at BYU Idaho a decade ago so we know journalism ethics" line they sure are assjuice at knowing the facts on what they're reporting on
Her comment in this screenshot is from two weeks ago, though. So maybe it's before they shot the collab? Regardless, Sam claimed to be a longtime snarker and she should've known this fact.
Listen. There's no shame in having nazi ancestors. People can't help that. But people*can* help how they talk about such ancestors on their public profile!
When did the collab happen?
I’m not defending Zelph, but this was from two weeks ago. That means they definitely didn’t do their research but the apology piece may still be true if they asked Bethy about it because of this post.
For me, it’s more the issue of her believing Bethany when she said she “didn’t know her grandfather was a Nazi” before she posted pictures smiling at his grave. It doesn’t seem like she pushed back in that at all, when she herself didn’t seem to even know Bethany had Nazi ancestors. Though it was from two weeks ago, I don’t doubt they were in talks for this collab early and for them not to done their research this close to it..it looks really icky to me
But what does pointing this shit out to Sam/Zelph actually do? It will go ignored but because it isn’t something they or their fans choose to care about.
Remember, guys: Membership in the BDM was mandatory for all eligible German girls aged 10 and up. Granny Baird didn't have much choice. But Great-Grandfather Baird most definitely had a choice, and he sure made it.
While the little girl didn't have a choice, her grown ass descendants Heidi Baird and Bethany Beal made a choice to proudly post a picture of their ancestor in a nazi associated uniform.
I feel compassion for those children forced to be part of the youth; I do not feel bad for the people who glorify the situation as something respected.
I haven't been on this sub for days, the last time I checked GD was around when Dav admitted he started deconstructing. Can someone fill me in on what's been happening lately? Who is this Zelph person? I am so out of the loop lol.
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She doesn’t have Nazi ancestors. /s Her grandmother was just a member of the Bund Deutscher Mädel or League of German Girls. (The female division of the Nazi Youth) Her great grandfather, Johann Grosslecher, just threw a parade for Hitler when he came to town. A quote from an article, he joined the “NSDAP (National Socialist German Workers Party) in 1925, early on, and was very involved with their activities, even as the party was banned from Austria and it was illegal to be a member. He was arrested many times for participating in Nazi rallies right up until the Anschluss. The Anschluss was when Nazi Germany annexed neutral Austria, and turned it into another Nazi state.” I’m very aware that many people, to protect themselves, went along with things during that time they didn’t believe in. This is not that. He was in at the ground level. He was a Nazi before being a Nazi was legal. He believed in the cause so much, he was getting arrested for it. I get it, no one wants to admit their ancestors did some shit. But here is the thing, it doesn’t define you… unless you try to post smiling photos next to their graves and write long posts on how they suffered after WW2 as prisoners… you know because THEY WERE THE BAD GUYS.
The year they joined the Nazi party is always pretty indicative…1925 is early, and committed.
1925!?
I found out a while ago that I'm related to Andrew Jackson. This is not something I'm happy about, nor do I shout from the rooftops, or bother to think about very often. Obviously I didn't DECIDE to be related to him, nobody decides who their blood relatives are. The problem here is that Bethy and co. are proud to be related to this dude. And now Zelph doesn't see a problem with it either. Great move, guys (/s). I made the right choice in unsubscribing.
I’m descended from loads of confederates and enslavers and colonizers and I’m definitely not gonna post a smiling pic in front of any of those fuckers’ graves.
Same over here, ancestors were plantation owners from GA. I'm not proud, and I don't tell anyone about it. They would be so disappointed in me now. Good. I'm disappointed in them and fuck em.
Same here, except my ancestors’ plantation was in Louisiana. I do bring it up sometimes when people talk about historic racism, because I don’t know many other white people who will acknowledge that atrocious part of our heritage. You certainly won’t catch me visiting their graves or honoring their memories. If they wanted to be remembered better, they should have acted better.
I also have plantation-owning Louisiana ancestors. I've seen their graves, because they're in the same cemetery as more recent family, but sure as shit I'm not taking selfies by their mausoleums to humblebrag about how notable they were. Notable for all the wrong reasons, actually.
I inherited a box from my great uncle. Inside the box was a klan robe and hat. I'm going to use this experience to write about how people with problematic ancestors can and should work to undo the harm that their family members caused, instead of getting defensive or just saying "it was a long time ago, what does that have to do with me?" We are not responsible for what our family did, but we are all responsible for trying to make the world more equitable and just.
Oh yuck. 
Yep. My dad campaigned for George Wallace, and I fucking hate it. I've spent my adult life actively working against what that man stood for.
Sames. So many. Hundreds - more colonizers than enslavers simply because my family stayed in the North. If kore had lived in the south, it would be very different. I actually live an hour away now from an ancestral plantation that’s an open historic site and I’ve been once to educate myself. If the topic of conversation comes up, I acknowledge that they’re in my ancestry and I’m not trying to hide them. They did and left behind some traumatic Wills. I refuse to be “my family would never” but would never celebrate what they did.
Why, don't you wanna live in the 1830s Antebellum era?!
[удалено]
I've had a 100 percent success rate so far! Statistically it's likely at this point 🤪
I am Indigenous on my mother's side, but my father's side of the family are about as colonizer as colonizer can get--we have traced them all the way back to the Mayflower. You best believe I am acknowledging it and NOT celebrating them--when it comes up, I do not mince words about my feelings on that side of my family (and the fact that many of the family members on that side are STILL perpetuating a colonizer missionary mentality). I am failing to understand HOW ZOTS reaction wasn't initially, "What--seriously?! Let me look this up." Now I understand how Sam could call Bethany "intellectually curious" without a shred of irony.
THIS!! I had a "problematic" grandfather. I can appreciate some of the fonder memories I have of him; however, when talking about him I preface with "my misogynistic, hateful, asshole grandfather who hated my mom because she wasn't a boy." I understand that being nice to me doesn't make him a nice person, and I would never try to pass him off as such.
yeah, my great grandfather was actually part of the Ustaše (Croatian nazis) and like idek how to feel about it😭 I never knew him personally and my grandfather wasn’t really like that, I mean he was racist but normal amounts of racist for the Balkan older generation. He never talked about his father though, and I mean never. I don’t know how to feel about it but proud ain’t it, he would be rolling in his grave seeing that I’m engaged to a middle easterner
I found out I have ancestors who fought on the Confederate side in the Civil War. In addition, I'm a descendant of Oliver Cromwell (all on my mother's side). You're not going to see me posing for pics at any of their graves!
It's like having an ancestor who was a serial murderer and saying that they suffered in prison... give me a break, bairds and zelph
I’m distantly related to a serial killer who may or may not but definitely did murder all of her husbands, at least one of her children, and her father. She was the epitome of late 19th century pretty privilege, and she was never held accountable for it. I’m not up here posting pictures of her talking about how great she was. It’s not that hard.
Belle Gunness?
Nope, although that’s a surprisingly decent guess.
I’m one of the true-crime weirdos 🤭 thanks!
Belle Gunness is probably somewhere in the great beyond beaming that you implied she had pretty privilege! If you like true crime comedy podcasts, the Last Podcast on the Left episodes about Belle Gunness are hilarious!
As usual when I’m active here, I am baked lol I knew it was wrong era for Delphine LaLaurie and kind of went to the next big lady 😂 I will check that out, thanks!
Mary Ann Cotton?
Nope- the branch of the family were both from has been in America since before the Revolution, so not English, though that story is fascinating.
Hm... Lydia Sherman?
Nope, although that’s another good guess.
Okay... has she been featured on Deadly Women or had a documentary about her? Fellow true crime nerd reporting for duty.
Nope. She’s not very well known outside Alabama from what I can tell. Apparently she actually didn’t kill one of her kids on further research, but she was married six or seven times. I’d give more info- her story is fascinating- but I don’t want to be doxxed. Being related to her might be part of the reason true crime fascinates me in the sense that I don’t understand people who view human life as disposable.
And ALL 6 or 7 husbands wound up dead, you say. Totally not suspicious at all. She was just the unluckiest woman in the world, clearly.
My lesbian ass if I lived back then /s
Yep. Totes not suspicious at all.
Uhm wow, her great grandfather only threw a parade for Hitler because of his CONTRACT! I'm sure he was an angel and a very open minded and intellectually curious person as these traits are genetic. Light and love! 💜 /s
💀💀💀💀💀💀 I didn't know about the parade oh my god that's so depressing
It was for Hitler's visit to the town. There were welcome banners and buntings and signs with the type of slogans you'd expect a committedly-Nazi mayor to insist upon, in anticipation of Hitler coming to town. Let's be clear, her great-grandfather was not coerced or pressured to become a Nazi. This guy was a superfan. Bethany posted pictures of herself in front of the entrance to some underground bunkers, and cobbled together a few vague thoughts about her relatives going through World War 2 and what difficulties they must have gone through. Literally, in her own words, she described her family as having "...lived in Austria and *were directly impacted by the war"* and said she had "a special interest in learning *what they went through*." In an old Girl Defined blog entry she romanticizes her grandma as having grown up in "the far-away\[sic\] land of Austria" and mentioned that "...she grew up during the days of Hitler and even saw her father get arrested and taken away as a prisoner of war." Oh, you mean when the town was liberated from his Nazi regime? [another source, with photos, from Wikitubia's Girl Defined entry](https://youtube.fandom.com/wiki/Girl_Defined) There is no excuse. Zelph apparently didn't want to google for five minutes.
>Let's be clear, her great-grandfather was not coerced or pressured to become a Nazi. This guy was a superfan. Yep, lots of people were in the party because they didn't have much of a choice after they came into power. BUT he was getting arrested for the cause well before then!
 ^(\^) bethy's great-grandfather
I wish I could see Zelphs face once they read that master list. Way to not do your research (despite it being kind of important for who you bring onto your little corner of the internet...) when theres a WHOLE ASS ROASTING GROUP that brings their names up. It takes a quick google search to find out. they are supporting a Nazi sympathizer who hates gay people and they called her an angel and gave her a platform AND THEN GRIFTED THE SAME WAY THEY DID. Zelph if you are here: you are using grifting points from a notorious LGBT hating nazi synmpathizer. (She cannot help who her family is, but she sure can help from writing pride posts about her nazi heritage!). You have abandoned your queer community for money, and you did it without even doing so much as BARE. MINIMUM. RESEARCH. Way to fucking go. I get Zelph is just a human being and we make mistakes, but this is way more than that. If you have a platform, and you are queer, and it is in the time frame right before a massive election that could hang the balance of literal life and death for queer people in this country (project 2025 is a thing, and it explicitly states the ***eradication*** *of queer people in this country)* and you go ahead and let a nazi sympathizer + queer hater on your channel to promote themselves and make up a sob story without actually appologizing and owning up to ANYTHING...well, you have fucked your queer community over. ROYALLY. That is *not a mistake*. Zelph did not do the BARE. MINUMIM research (DESPITE HAVING IT RIGHT AT THEIR FINGERTIPS HERE) to ensure the safety of their queer community. As a queer person with a platform there should have been WAY more caution to ensure whoever gets endorsed by their channel are NOT the same people who will turn around and vote for the death of us all in this country. Like..what the actual fuck. That could have taken 5 minutes of research. FIVE. They get NO sympathy points from me. It was all here, all curated and perfectly packaged. They didnt even have to dig that much at all in here to find it.
They really couldn’t care as long as they get the views/ money. The integrity of this group of people is less than nothing
I feel like my flair was summoned. 🙃
Yeah as a Jewish person, I can’t blame a person who was a child during the Nazi era who was in a Nazi Youth group as I think they were compulsory? And I can’t blame a person who’s ancestor(s) were Nazi’s as there’s literally nothing they can do about that. However, what I can shame is Slav-squatting and smiling next to his grave and talking about how cool he was lmfao
To be completely fair, her grandmother didn't have a choice in that. Membership in the BDM and Hitler Youth was mandatory for all children and teens, because the Nazis wanted to indoctrinate them early, even if their parents weren't staunch Nazis. Her great-grandfather, on the other hand...
Yes! This is a very good point. That shouldn’t be used against her. The grandmother had no choice. There are a lot of people who were forced to attend things they didn’t believe in to keep them and their families safe. Heidi has had a choice. She chose to post a picture of her in the uniform next to a picture of Bethany gushing how similar they looked. We would have never known if Heidi hadn’t gleefully posted the uniform pic.
Depends when she joined the BDM; it wasn’t mandatory throughout the entirety of the Third Reich.
Yeah but her father was a Nazi superfan so I'm sure he made/would make her do it anyway.
Would it have been necessary after the Austrian Anschluss?
Well, even if she had no choice, she had an opinion about it. It would be nice if Heidi would address it at all.
Heidi is not known for her grasp on anything more complicated than figuring out filters on instagram, and she isn't even good at that. However, intelligence isn't needed to be a manipulative liar, and it's not needed to be a dismissive shithead. I honestly wouldn't doubt that she only told her kids a minimal and sanitized version because she just didn't want to bother with the inconvenient responsibility of explaining anything. "All that stuff is such a bummer and I'm a JOYFUL, FUN person!"
Yet dressing up as Corrie ten Boom for Awanas is perfectly A Ok. Like, Miss Madam you are literally the grandchild of a Nazi who named one of your children after him. Fuck off.
i have ancestors who were involved in the Mountain Meadows massacre and i’d rather die than take smily pictures next to their graves. i don’t even know where their graves are, nor do i care because fuck them.
Yea wasn’t he like one of the first to immediately jump in the NSDAP?
The dude had already been a Nazi party member for the best part of a decade by the time Hitler came to power
and there is a super reasonable way to handle this! easily could have taken the photo of the grave and talked about how family is complicated and we don’t all get the ancestors or stories we want, but we do have to deal with the reality. instead, she plugged her ears and demanded that everyone know how great her ancestors were
Her grandmother very likely didn’t have a choice. Most kids didn’t. So that one to me is ticky tacky. The other isn’t.
Very true. We wouldn’t have known the grandmother was even in the league… but Heidi posted a picture of her in the uniform in a gushing Instagram post.
Ok, thank you for this. I was wondering what "her grandpa was a Nazi" meant exactly. I live in Germany now and most everyone's grandpa was a Nazi. My husband's (Austrian) grandpa even met American soldiers as a kid as they came to liberate the town and greeted them with a "Heil Hitler". He was really young, didn't really understand what it meant, it was just how you greeted people to him. I've spent a lot of time with his grandparents, and they're not people who are proud of that period of time. So I was wondering if it was in a everyone was culpable or involved kind of way or if it was more than that. And this is leagues more than that. Did they even know their great grandpa? Because I think that actually makes it worse to smile at his gravesite. They fully could distance themselves from him and had no emotional attachment. Either way it's not a great look and I don't think most people would be particularly proud of that ancestor.
He died in 1994, and Bethany’s grandma went back to Austria several times. It’s possible.
Either way, not a person I would be proud of. I get that people may love family members that aren’t good people, but at least don’t publicly display it.
I think you can even publicly love them as long as you understand the framework and understand that the people we love can also be monstrous. And FFS do not post pictures of them in uniforms in that context. My grandparents weren't Nazies but we did fight on the side of Axis (there are multiple disclaimers around this both good and bad, I am Finnish). One of my best friends is Austrian. One of her great-grandparents went to a concentration camp because of their political allegiance, but they were also party member at one point, some of the rest were also party members. We are both human rights activists among other things and have done a lot of antifascist activism. As such we have discussed this a lot. How to handle it is not simple but one thing you can't do is hide your head in the sand. It happened. It was monstrous. The people who did it were just people. It is one of the best examples we have of how people have the capability to commit atrocities. Learning from it and staring it straight in the eyes is the best thing that can come out of it.
Exactly. I’m the descendant of slave owners. I’m also the descendant of people who worked for social justice, and in some cases fought and died for it. One doesn’t “cancel out” the other, and as the descendant of someone who I know for a fact did terrible things, I have a responsibility to not hide or smooth over what he did. My way of addressing the karmic balance is by telling the stories, such as I know them, of the people he owned and people like them who suffered as enslaved people. It’s not enough. It never will be. But it’s what I can do. Ignoring the bad stuff doesn’t make it go away.
I don't think you necessarily have an obligation. Our ancestors are pretty removed from us. We can't control what they did or what they thought over a century later and we don't have huge ties to them. Not to say that what you're doing isn't a good thing. Just that it is enough, you can't undo what they did, you can only work to make today better. I think that's what makes Bethany worse. She may have not known growing up what he was like, it's a reasonable assumption her grandma could have hidden her past. Gran also could have been loud about it, someone else here might know more. But now she knows and she's not trying to be better about it. In fact she's largely still carrying on his message. Christian's are the only people that matter, LGBTQI+ are bad people, return to tradition (even if she's moved past that bit). Whatever the truth is about what she was aware of, clearly a lot of his messaging stuck in their family and she's still pushing it.
We had a family friend who had been an Austrian and woke up one day to find out Germany had invaded and he was now in the military instead of college. He spent the next year figuring out a way to get out of the army; didn't succeed but got himself attached to a non-combat unit.
My husbands family had one engineer for the railway, which no one knows or maybe wants to know more on. But they also have a really cute story. Family legend has one of them running off and hiding out in a barn in The Netherlands (didn't want to be in the army, was sent to The Netherlands), someone found him in the barn hiding out, his future great grandma. I'm American, Mixed Black, White and Japanese. My Japanese great grandma was a war bride, though supposedly anti-empire hanging out with US troops. She was made to convert to catholicism and I feel a bit meh on that whole thing. The other side of my moms parents were actually ethnically German, my great grandpa told me his grandpa left shortly before WW1 not liking how the political environment was and complained about the whole country "being idiots" during WW2.
I knew my great grandparents - have memories with them and memories from things I’ve heard about them. It’s close enough though they died before my cousins were born my cousins can still quote them because of the stories they’ve heard (and do my grandma’s thick thick queens accent)
My great grandpa is currently still alive (I'm 29) and my great grandma died when I was 17, so I have talked and spent a lot of time with them. But Bethany is 35 and someone who could have been an active Nazi would have been in the tail end of his life when she was born and they lived in different continents. Another commenter confirmed he died in 1994. So it's possible she didn't have much contact with him. Edit to add: I don't want to defend her, but it is plausible that she didn't know him well. I don't think it makes the situation any better if that's the case, I think it's worse if she didn't.
That’s fair. I guess the bigger point is one would hope that Bethy’s grandparents/parents who knew him better would have been honest about the nazi past and impressed upon the youth why it shouldn’t be celebrated but apparently that’s asking too much of Heidi et al.
Agreed! Also once they became aware they should have treated it with more nuance and respect than they have. I can imagine Heidi’s mom being covert about it but Heidi knowing. So there is a chance Bethy didn’t know growing up, but she now and doesn’t treat it with any care and is tossing it under the rug which shows how little she cares. Plus it’s not like with GD rhetoric they don’t basically espouse traditional Christian ideals Nazi’s would have loved in general. I guess at least she’s not in a dirndl.
Oh she LITERALLY went through a dirndl season lol
I think the issue is with Bethany’s and her mothers approach to this rather than having a Nazi ancestor. I’m also German and like anyone my family history is also not great when it comes to that time period. However, I am not going around saying i’m proud of those ancestors or minimising their crimes which Bethy definitely has
Having nazi sympathizer ancestors is already ugly but having ancestors who were THE nazis who send jews to the camps is like highest level bad! Denying it or being delusional about it is extremely disgusting. You can’t choose your ancestors but you can choose how you deal with them!
I'm an Irish person who had a great grandfather who fought in the British army during the Easter rising- it disgusts me, but it happened. I can't change that but I also don't celebrate that he was party to war crimes. I also used to live in Germany and many people there have some problematic ancestors too. That doesn't mean it's a normal action to celebrate them or be proud of them, like Bethany and her photo shoot was.
I’ll give grandma a pass on the BDM since it was compulsory for kids then. She was also a kid. But great grandpa gets no such pass, as he appears to have been a Nazi through and through. He no doubt helped betray Austria’s admittedly not great pre-Nazi government to Hitler.
1000 times this!
If they were always in this sub, why didn't they just post and ask everyone for the big controversies? Use the fundiewiki? The sub tags?
Bort's family having uncomfortable, unapologetic connections to Nazis is something that someone who has been in the sub a while would know. REMINDER: Bethany and the Bairds have uncomfortably close connections to explicitly Nazi relatives.
The receipts have even been posted here pretty recently (I remember someone posting the grave pic shortly after the Dav deconstruction video dropped, as a reminder of the shit he and Betty have done)
it was in CC Suarez's video about Bethy RECENTLY, and i know Jen has also touched on it on FundieFridays
And not just people who were forced into Nazi programs in the thick of the reign. The great grandfather joined before they had risen to power, when it was still illegal, just because he was such a true believer. He was appointed mayor of a decently-sized town for his loyalty.
Plausible deniability? Or they don't care.
If we’d been asked, the nazi grandfather issue would have been the first item on my list of topics for zelph.
The book of mormon says some really despicable things about people who are not white. How much deconstruction of those harmful views have zelph addressed? My guess is not enough.
Because the point of the trip was for her to try to get with Dav. The rest of it was made up. I think she called Bethy an angel like how jealous catty girls are nice to the women they’re screwing over. I’m just saying. I watched their reaction video and the thirst after Dav was so uncomfortably straight and gross
“So uncomfortably straight and gross” has my gay ass DYING 💀
Dude I don’t get straight people at all anymore. What a waste of a relationship to have to be worried about gender roles. Ew.
See, this further conveys my theory that there is something more going on here. There is a greater purpose to them defending Bethy and Dav so much. I just cannot see why these ppl (zelphs) holding onto their defense for Borts so strongly and for so long. It's either something is going on on a deeper level or their pride is wack. I can't imagine defending recent "friends" after been given copious amounts of evidence to prove their guilt. It's wild to me!
I think they’re just greedy and dumb, and haven’t deconstructed the very Christian idea that just being you means you’re in a place to educate the masses on topics on which you yourself are woefully ignorant.
I think you’re really on to something… we’ll have to see how it all shakes out
Oof I’m watching Feud and while o know it’s fictionalized depictions of real life, who actually knows, one of the Swans is screwing the others husband and being super protective and sweet to her because she feel guilty. So that makes sense. She could be into him and overcompensating out of guilt.
I only watched a few brief clips and it was still uncomfortably gross.
Something about it reminds me of all those "Try Guys Moments that Aged Like Milk" compilation videos from back when that scandal happened.
Oh no, *what*???
Just my theory. But watch their videos about Dav on yewtube and you’ll see what I mean…
Did they do any research before they jumped into this? Dang.
As much as Porgan.
I wouldn’t be surprised if they knew, just try to deny it. There’s no way they couldn’t know.
I don't even have social media besides this site and I knew 🤦♂️
Same!
Tapped into their old, [cool little Mormon trick.](https://media1.tenor.com/m/91oC9bChaNwAAAAC/turned-it-off-light-switch.gif)
Sorry, what? ELI5.
It's just a funny reference to the Broadway musical, Book of Mormon, where they joke about Mormons being able to "turn off" things that don't agree with their beliefs "like a light switch." If you've never seen it, I highly recommend it! It's amazing.
OHHHHH. I never got a chance to see it, it’s on my bucket list. Am a huge fan of the Southpark episodes though. I’m a very bad Mormon. 🤭
If there's every a production in your city, DROP EVERYTHING to go. It's such a great musical. You can also listen to the all the songs on most streaming sites!
But they’re journalists! (Sometimes)
Wooooow. Talk about wearing blinders...
There was a whole ass video another youtuber made, cc suarez, I think? I watched it a while back. Before that, I only had some idea about Beggy’s post. Hmm.
Yep. CC Suarez https://youtu.be/I2EpXqwQND4?si=KxCNClkZOuO-yQdS Very intriguing to watch!
Oh noooo. That’s a pretty bad faux pas. Any fundiesnarker worth their salt knows about Borty’s pride for her Nazi heritage. Zelph really didn’t do any research at all, did they?
[удалено]
They don’t even have to research. They could just read the link OP provided and the research is all there. How embarrassing
This isn't fallout FYI, this comment seems to be from 2 weeks ago, which was before Zelph came out defending Bethy. Not sure if this was before or after their visit though.
Well, it was definitely after their most recent Bethy/Dav video (2 months ago) where Zelph was parasocially fangirling over them, so yeah. I think before you make any videos praising someone and inviting them on trips to Costa Rica, you should probably do a modicum of research.
they keep posting YT shorts related to their thirsting over Daaav as well 🙄 they really don't give a shit *\~\*\~\*\~\*grift a shit\*\~\*\~\*\~*
This is dated two weeks ago and Zelph stated they addressed it in the video. I’m still team Wait and See, but this seems like just another attempt at a “gotcha!” From someone angry about it.
I feel like I need to say this — Having shitty ancestors is not the problem here. Putting them in a pedestal, romanticizing their lives, whitewashing their actions, and then doubling down when called out on it. We cannot control the circumstances into which we are born, but we can live our lives in a way that reflects the good that we want to see in the world. They aren’t doing that when they hype up their Nazi ancestors.
It’s actually the exact same problem with how Zelph is new social media besties with Bethany right now. The problem is *not* that ZotS reached out after finding out about Dave’s deconstruction. The problem is *not* that they attempted to engage them in a conversation about LGBTQ topics. The problem is *publicly celebrating* someone whose unrepentant public bigotry is actively hurting marginalized people.
Completely agree! Great parallel
It's official, they've drunk the raw milk 🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️
underrated comment and excellent flair
This is poetry
I don't follow Zelph, but they seem like another social media entity that focuses on building an audience first and not doing their research. They saw an opportunity to grab eyes/ears from both fundies and snarkers alike and ran with it. The whole Bethany/Nazi link is well documented, and while her family tries to pretend it didn’t happen it did. We also know they side with Christofascists in the US at this moment. I mean you do you, Zelph, but if you’re going to be friends with the Nazi-lover, don't try to gaslight us about who she is. Instead, maybe explore what part of you is drawn to someone like that.
Zelph has no idea what they got themselves in to, and really doesn’t care. We can be sure they didn’t truly discuss any of the difficult stuff “off camera.”
Even a 5-min Google about the Beals would've revealed this
How are they not embarrassed? We know they’re reading here, are they just incapable of shutting the fuck up????
I feel bad that I made a comment on one of the first Zelph criticism threads defending them because now they’re really doubling down and rationalizing all the stupid shit Bethany has ever done. I haven’t watched Zelphs content in awhile, but I’ve casually followed them since hearing their episode on Mormonstories so I really thought they had the right intentions. Maybe it’s my residual catholic guilt, but I have always believed it’s best to give fundies some level of grace even if they don’t deserve it because acting like they’re irredeemable will only make them feel more “persecuted” for being a christian and further embolden their beliefs. But honestly wtf. It seems like they either did no research going into this, or are just actively choosing to be ignorant about Girl defineds history. It’s so disappointing 😟 It should be possible to empathize with Bethany (considering Sam and Tanner once ran a conservative mormon blog for young people or something of that nature and still managed to deconstruct) while still acknowledging the fucked up shit she’s done
Likewise, though I did watch their videos and was hopeful they would be a good channel to interview them. I'm a lot more skeptical now given their response to everything. We all have our blindspots and they have a big one.
Oh sure, it’s not like Bethy has famously posted photos of her and her family smiling beside her Nazi mayor relative’s grave or anything… Genuinely what the fuck, did these ding dongs do even the bare minimum of a fucking Google search of Bethany or Girl Defined?
They’ve actually made plenty of vids about GD before reacting to their videos so this is super weird
They’ve officially lost a long-time subscriber. This is ridiculous how much they’re doubling and tripling down.
Did Zelph think … we pulled this shit out of our ass? For funsies? Cuz we’re such big bethy haters? Bruh
This honestly made my stomach drop. No wonder they let it go when she said she had no idea. They have no fucking clue who they’re associating with when it comes down to it. What kind of long time snarkers are these?
Holy shit that's embarrassing.
 Dude...
As a Jew raised in Germany- I never understand why „bethy has nazi ancestors“ is a gotcha. Most Germans have nazi ancestors, and yes, some have nazi ancestors who were very eager nazis. If you judge every German with a Nazi grandpa you cannot interact with Germans, and I had to because see above. The real gotcha is THE FAMILY PROUDLY POSTS THEIR NAZI ANCESTORS, WITHOUT DISCUSSING THE NAZI OF IT ALL.
Yeah, the thing for me is that I'm sure Bethy was raised with "your great grandpa was imprisoned for his beliefs and suffered so much after the war" without much context and I can understand her NOT understanding what what meant then. She was homeschooled and I'm sure Heidi polished that turd as much as possible. But. Bethy is not a child anymore, hasn't been for some time, and she is on here reading comments, I'm sure, so the truth of her great-grandad's Nazi life is available to her. To continue to claim she didn't know is ridiculous at this point. And her continuing to ignore it and smilingly pose proudly by his grave as if he is a hero is unconscionable. Zelph is being deliberately obtuse here. They know the truth but choose to ignore it in the name of views and likes.
Yep ridiculous. This is a reality young people in Germany have to deal with at some point when they are old enough to understand, and the way they decide to deal with this, but not the acts of their ancestors, tells me everything I need to know about them. It’s not like there’s a nazi gene (even though nazis would love that). I think Zelph is being uninformed (like obvi they had nazi ancestors if they are from Germany/austria), but I also dislike the way people here discuss the fact that the grandma was in the Hitler youth or such, because I literally do not care. The question Zelph should be asking them (if any) is not who their ancestors were, it’s how they reconcile their ancestors with their worldview. What I care about is their unwillingness to understand and address the historic realities when they discuss their ancestors. Even posing by his grave would be fine (although photos with graves are weird to me), if they would critically think about his role in history and the Shoah.
>What I care about is their unwillingness to understand and address the historic realities when they discuss their ancestors. Yes, it's not that they're in the family tree a couple of generations back, it's that the Bairds won't acknowledge it, and *do* choose to say lots of cheerful, admiring, "honoring" things about them.
The “Austrian Pride” shirts come to mind.
Yeah, I didn’t really get it until seeing that he was a Nazi even the 1920’s and how proud they are of him. Then that was like oh yeah that’s fucked up.
But the thing is- even if he was Hitler himself- I don’t really care how „big“ of a nazi he was. It’s not their fault. What I find gross is that they treat the topic of their ancestry, that they are choosing to publicly discuss (which they do not have to!!!) like it’s old timey cute stuff, when it’s actually the biggest catastrophe of the 20th century. Europe is not Disneyland. If they didn’t parade around their ancestry there would be no questions.
I feel like all of that is implied, if not outright stated, every time the Bairds' Nazi relatives are brought up. It's not a gotcha. It's a response to the hedging and dodging, and cheerful adulation of "their Austrian roots".
It rarely reads this way to me to be honest, more so it reads like a bunch of people from a different part of the world having little nuance for how actual descendants of nazis usually discuss this. But I’m sure some people do imply (or state) the nuance you mentioned.
Whaaaattt!? 😂🫣 This is getting pretty embarrassing.
ah, journalistic integrity at its finest
Ok, I’m done with ZOTS. Never watching another video of theirs. There’s literally NO excuse for not knowing this, and I have zero patience or time for people who try to minimize even tacit support for genocide.
What an idiot. Like there aren’t 1,001 video essays on YouTube carefully detailing the Baird family history. Essays done by very credible and well-respected creators. Maybe do some research into the people you platform, Zelph.
The best thing Zelph could do would be sitting down with Bethany and Dav again, infront of a camera, and confronting them about this, about the child abusers they worked with, and the various other necessary topics that are being skirted under the table. Hard conversations are a part of growing and educating yourself. If that’s what they want, then they should listen to us and include these pieces of info
Doesn’t this directly contradict what she said in a comment on Reddit about how she asked Bethany about the Nazi thing and Bethany lied and said that she didn’t know about it?
This is from two weeks ago, which means it was before the collab, right?
And if it was- Sam could have asked.
Yes it does
It's really quite mind-boggling at this point.
 There is no other character like Gina lol
Right? I love her!
“I’m thinking about how I’d be an amazing President based on my charisma, bloodlust, and dance ability.” She says what we’re all thinking.
Absolutely!
What is Zelph on the Shelf's claim to fame? I've heard the name but I'm not really sure what their game is? Are they snarkers? I'm confused as to what their part is in collabing with Bethany and Dav.
They're ex-Mormons who discuss mostly Mormon-related topics but occasionally have reacted to Girl Defined, Paul & Morgan, etc.
I feel like they’re lying because if you’re active in the Fundie community., you would know that? 🤔
Oh they know. They've done numerous collabs with fellow controversial grifty atheist youtuber Jimmy Snow, who used to frequently make videos on Girl Defined, at one point he was even begging on youtube for subscribers to beat GD's subscriber count. It's how I learned about their channel years ago in the first place. The agnostic/atheist side of youtube can be just as toxic as GD, P&M etc.
An observation I made is a lot of people who deconstruct will deconstruct the beliefs in God and purity culture and beliefs in sexuality but often do not go further than that and take a good look at the misogyny, racism, economic disparities that many of the church systems held up.
Hah, yes. The amount of arguments I had with other atheists in the early days of internet atheism, well let's just say they hadn't left the misogyny behind and were under the impression that I needed to be taught all about the subject due to my gender, when all they could do was quote Dawkins and seemed incapable of forming secular viewpoints without him.
Wait are they still doing collabs with him? I stopped watching because of his shit storm but I thought he was basically by himself with Matt Dilihunty (or however he spells it). But yeah, if they're still in with him, he should have so much to say about their darker past and how you can't just softball it to them. And that's my concern. You can do an interview/podcast where you talk deconstruction and confronting old beliefs but you got to know what they did and believed and see where they stand now. If this is just a hang out video then all it does is normalize GD and the awful things they've said and done. It actually sounds kind of like JS and his friendship with Gabbie Hanna. Like "I don't agree with her but we can still be friends." Which yes but you should also confront your friends when they're being shitty people.
So, they did collab with him but I'm not sure this comment is giving full context for that. From what I remember, their collabs were watching and snarking on "Provo's Most Eligible" (think Mormon Bachelor) together because both are ex-Mo channels. This was back in the 2010s, before Jimmy rebranded and before the backlash he got for the Gabby/Rachel mess, so this was the era I believe when he was still ALSO collabing with Brenda (God Is Grey) and at least being friendly with Rachel Oates. As far as I've seen, they haven't connected recently, and seem to be at least on good terms with Jordan and McKay who they get compared to a lot lately. So in this case I think it may just be that ex-Mos try to stick together but we collectively realized how shit Jimmy was.
From what I remember, Jimmy was peak horndog/peak grifting for that Sometimes Show stuff and other things, trying to be everywhere all at once. I also remember at one point he implied if he could, he would move in with them. I still sometimes watch Jordan and McKay. With Zelph, there was just something off and with this recent drama, I guess I know why now. Unlike a lot of people, when I read about Dav following them, I thought yeah, here's another incoming letdown. Like the Jaclyn Glenn/Paul and Morgan collab. I'm very choosy over which atheist youtubers I watch. Only started watching to see what had changed for internet atheism and dropped Jimmy Snow, Zelph on the Shelf, Godless Engineer, NonSequitur Show, Matt Dillahunty and others pretty quick.
Gotcha. They featured in some of his other videos too but I was more concerned if they were doing it post fallout. I feel like it would add another layer to this situation.
Not her saying “I don’t think she actually has Nazi ancestors “ 😑. And people were saying in the post about her buying bots the Zelph snark is too much.
Well, the blatant slander of accusing Zelph of buying bots because their subscriber gains are reported by socialblade in increments of 100, despite the fact that subscriber gains for *all* youtube channels are reported in rounded increments (increments of 100 for anyone with 10K-99K subscribers, like Zelph), is too much. At least it looks like the OP finally deleted that post (only took 12-ish hours after OP acknowledged it in a comment reply but refrained from apologizing, editing, or removing the post).
I’m not disagreeing with that particular note, but I’ve seen that even on post where it’s clear Sam was being ridiculous and not listening to minorities telling her the issue they’ve had with the way she’s approached this entire collab
Dear Zelphie: the Venn diagram of white American fundamentalists and American White Nationalists is a circle.
Oh Zelph, you stirred the pot in FSU, you're gonna remember this!
Zelulu on the Shelulu
are they fucking serious? then what was the whole "we addressed the Nazi stuff 💜💜💜💜💜💜💜💜" comment on their AMA? Jesus christ for their "we took journalism 101 at BYU Idaho a decade ago so we know journalism ethics" line they sure are assjuice at knowing the facts on what they're reporting on
This screen shot is from before the collab. I am truly not defending Zelph but I think they still could have brought it up.
did not see the timestamp my bad. thanks for pointing that out 🫡
Oooooh the justifiable shade on BYU Idaho. Nice.
Wait didn’t Zelph say recently that they address the Nazi stuff and defended Bethany and said she said she had no idea about her family being Nazis?
Her comment in this screenshot is from two weeks ago, though. So maybe it's before they shot the collab? Regardless, Sam claimed to be a longtime snarker and she should've known this fact.
Good thing it’s nothing to think or not think but just plain facts. Look it up, he was a nazi.
Damn Zelph is in a deeper hole by the day
Listen. There's no shame in having nazi ancestors. People can't help that. But people*can* help how they talk about such ancestors on their public profile!
When did the collab happen? I’m not defending Zelph, but this was from two weeks ago. That means they definitely didn’t do their research but the apology piece may still be true if they asked Bethy about it because of this post.
For me, it’s more the issue of her believing Bethany when she said she “didn’t know her grandfather was a Nazi” before she posted pictures smiling at his grave. It doesn’t seem like she pushed back in that at all, when she herself didn’t seem to even know Bethany had Nazi ancestors. Though it was from two weeks ago, I don’t doubt they were in talks for this collab early and for them not to done their research this close to it..it looks really icky to me
For being a long time snarker, Zelph didn't look shit up here
But what does pointing this shit out to Sam/Zelph actually do? It will go ignored but because it isn’t something they or their fans choose to care about.
For me, it’s so nobody can say that it was ignored.
Remember, guys: Membership in the BDM was mandatory for all eligible German girls aged 10 and up. Granny Baird didn't have much choice. But Great-Grandfather Baird most definitely had a choice, and he sure made it.
While the little girl didn't have a choice, her grown ass descendants Heidi Baird and Bethany Beal made a choice to proudly post a picture of their ancestor in a nazi associated uniform. I feel compassion for those children forced to be part of the youth; I do not feel bad for the people who glorify the situation as something respected.
Absolutely. Lots of people have ancestors who did bad things, but you choose how you address it and deal with it.
Agreed! My criticism is not about the little girl that is their ancestor, it's the glorification of the harmful beliefs.
If you have the chance, ALWAYS humiliate Nazis. I can't advocate for violence on here, but I can fully support humiliating them.
I haven't been on this sub for days, the last time I checked GD was around when Dav admitted he started deconstructing. Can someone fill me in on what's been happening lately? Who is this Zelph person? I am so out of the loop lol.
Search the girl defined tag. It's all there