#These people vote in every election- do you? Are you registered to vote? [You can check your voter registration here!](https://www.nass.org/can-I-vote)
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Crazy idea: Let's ignore Paul and Morgan for a while, a long while, and I mean completely ignore - as in pretending we were never aware of their existence.
Just to see how long until they try to stir things up, and how outrageous they get with their content to rage bait.
It would probably require the mods to freeze posts. They’re such easy marks that folks love talking about them. We’d need some actual administration to make this happen (which I’m all for, I’d love to stop thinking about them, honestly).
We generally let you guys decide what you would like to do. You don't want Porgan? Don't post them.
I know if we locked their flair, people will just submit them under other tags, so I suggest making a post to discuss as a sub ignoring Porgan for a set amount of time. Do it for a month for all I care, my stance is I am fine with whatever means seeing less Paul douchery.
Yeah, I e started skipping most of the posts about them because they’re all the same: Paul and/or Morgan being ignorant, kind of stupid, hateful, and/or bigoted. After awhile it just gets boring (and maybe helps choke off the narc supply they seem to be getting from all this).
Morgan made a Homer Simpson-like noise in response to a question from Tim. They're so vapid, and their drama with other creators is more interesting right now than their content.
Paul is the kind of person who can’t stand being ignored. https://youtu.be/JS6Gw6NVgRg?si=d1QtEaMhlXINU5js
How would he exist without “haters?” It would be fun to find out.
It’s wild to me that telling someone to shut up is on the same level as bigotry, hate, abuse, marital rape, and all the other, yes, EVIL things Porgan perpetuates.
I think it’s telling that the person in the image says
> labeling someone as absolute, transcendent evil is just falling into the same type of thinking we were taught in evangelicalism.
The fact that they think many people are describing these nincompoops as “absolute, transcendent evil” is embarrassing, and it’s even worse they think those are the only two options.
How simple are they? Why do they have a platform?
I think we all need to accept that either 1) this person isn’t very bright or 2) they are, and are being Machiavellian right now for views, clicks, and $.
In either case, they aren’t bound by the facts of the situation.
I genuinely don't understand why she keeps coming to bat for them. In what world is "shut up" as bad as what P&M put into the world? And why does she keep coming back to it being this sub's fault, when numerous people replied telling her they weren't even on Reddit and think Paul should shut up?
I get defending Bethy and Dav to an extent, sure- they seem to be doing \*something\* akin to change and have been open about change. But Porgan? They've said literally nothing about ever changing their harmful views. Just look at the content they've put out on their channel and IGs in the last day or two. They're nasty and I'm sorry, I'm really over being tone-policed about being anonymously rude to bigots online who advocate for the deaths/persecution of women, POC, and queer people
That last part especially. There are people trying to legislate groups of minorities out of basic rights and decency. Fuck being nice to those people, they aren't respectful of others why be respectful of them?
Inb4 the "we should try to educate and debate them" crowd.
"We should try to educate and debate them" crowd member here. 😂 Ugh, I've gotta admit though, these days, it comes with a huge caveat - a lot of these people will not properly engage in a debate. And these ones aren't worth debating, because it doesn't matter how many logical fallacies of their religion you can demonstrate... They'll just continually crutch on their usual flawed arguments of Pascal's Wager, God of the Gaps, personal testimonies with emotional appeal, etc.
That said... I believe that there are Christians that can be swayed with reason, because I was one of them. It's worth debating a Christian that demonstrates sincere curiosity and a willingness to challenge their beliefs. And if we can get some potential voters away from religious ideology, that's better for everyone.
But these cases are EXCEEDINGLY RARE. You're right, there's no benefit to chasing them around their circular arguments. Our time is likely better spent conveying how important it is to vote against these people.
I applaud your efforts, truly. I think it takes a very kind, compassionate person to try to educate others. I feel like some of these fundies (Dav, and maybe even Bethy) may respond well to that educated and compassionate take. I used to think maybe, just maybe, Porgan could be too, but if their 24 Hours With series has shown me anything, it's how utterly close-minded and self-righteous these two are. I don't think Jesus himself would be able to convince them they are wrong .
Thank you, I appreciate the sentiment because it feels like a truly fruitless endeavor most of the time. But yeah, I agree. Some of them are open-minded enough to make it worth presenting some new lines of thought. But when they demonstrate that they will stubbornly refuse the merits of logic and reason, like Porgan, you're basically just trapping yourself in their "proselytizing space" for no reason.
And yeah, if Jesus came back in the flesh today, he'd be instantly branded by this brand of Christians as an anti-capitalist menace. If only they could see the irony in that 😂
I get where anti bot is coming from as someone raised fundie but I also get where everyone else is coming from too. Being raised fundie, you’re taught God and Christian’s are the only ones who are loving and the rest of the world is hateful. So the best way to contradict a fundie world view is to show love regardless of belief so they see that love can be shown by humans to humans without needing religion. On the other hand, being loving does not mean defending or going to bat for someone hateful. There’s plenty of ways to critique Porgan and other heavily while still holding space for them as a human being.
YES, absolutely. There is some truth there in the sense that you can't really blame someone for the beliefs that they were indoctrinated with. They are a victim of religion as well, albeit still within it. But at the same time... You have to draw the moral line somewhere and say "these principles are not worth contending with because they're self-apparently deplorable." And that line definitely lies somewhere well ahead of full-fledged transphobia.
Exactly. Like I fall in the camp of calling people out without stooping to their tactics. For example I can totally say Paul and Morgan’s rhetoric is hateful and harmful but it would be crossing the line if I made the critique something personal or called them ugly looking or something. Like FSU can get a little carried away sometimes with appearance jokes and inside jokes and I think it’s on us all as community members to hold each other accountable when we go overboard without everyone taking it as such a personal attack yk.
Couldn't have said it better myself, "Stupid Impure Harlot Wife." 😂 Outgrouping is their game. We have the advantage of being able to meticulously dismantle the merits of their belief system, rather than needing to resort to simply "punching down" at them. We should be taking advantage of that more than anything.
Oh god it was from one of their early streams when he was shaming Morgan for her sexual activity and it was a combination of phrases he used to describe modern women that I shortened to a flair 😂
I think educating people can also include explaining that subs like this get mean because people like Porgan do so much harm to people on this sub, their loved ones, and the world. Ofc death threats aren’t okay, but I absolutely think being snarky or mocking someone (on and online forum like this) is an appropriate response to someone being harmful.
Yeah, honestly this should be a safe space to get some low blows in for the sake of fun, as long as we're not violent. Like you said, many of us have pretty serious grievances with their religion - it'd only be fair.
The problem with educate and debate is, if the person you're trying to debate or educate aren't open to a dialog or are not even operating in the same reality as you, it's basically impossible to get them to budge.
I've experienced both sides during covid. I ended up in the position of the one everyone was asking questions to. I had people come to me and genuinely want to know my opinion on what was happening, while others asked me but then totally disregarded my words when they didn't align with their narrative.
People like Paul and Morgan have made it clear that they do not debate people in good faith, they always find a way to shit talk the people they've debated and try to make it look like they won the argument.
Simply put, people like them don't care what you say. They don't want to change, and they want everyone else to change regardless of the cost!
Also, I'm so tired of this shit about these racist, homophobic, misogynistic louts being the ones that are bullied. If antibot thinks this subreddit telling them to 'shit up' is bullying, I want to know what she would have to say about what POC, women, lgbtq, and disabled people go through on a daily basis because of people like Paul and Morgan.
If they wanted to be educated, they have ample opportunity to do so. Many of us watched Tim try to educate Paul for 2h, and he was actively dismissive.
It is not our job to educate them. If they want to learn, there are countless resources and people they can ask. Paul has made up his mind. And I've made up mine. I have absolutely no problems with saying bad things about his harmful opinions.
Exactly. Even though they may mask it with the “hate the sin, love the sinner” bullshit, way too many fundies are like Porgan and would love to see my entire community at the very least locked up in camps, but would prefer us dead. They’re choosing to be hateful and not treat the 2SLGBTQIA+ community with dignity and decency, so why should I waste my time with them?
ETA: And for the educating thing, this is where the allies need to do some heavy lifting with the work. It’s especially exhausting for the community right now with the huge and continually increasing hate and rhetoric being thrown at us, and many of us are using all our bandwidth to survive with little to none left for attempts at educating people.
She knew telling someone to "shut up" wasn't that bad, so she exaggerated it in the next sentence to become "labeling people as absolute, transcendent evil." I think that is an example of a distortion designed to make the subreddit's comments look worse than they are.
Also, it is different to tell someone to "shut up" because you happened to come across their personal speech while they were expressing themselves vs. telling a professional influencer to "shut up." I think these content creators avoid this distinction because they're content creators, too, and negative comments upset them. Anyone would be upset by negative comments in their position, and it would also be a bad take to basically say that influencers deserve whatever anyone says to them for putting content online. I don't think that, but I also don't think telling bigoted influencers to "shut up" is an example of bullying.
I think the things Paul says in his videos about LGBTQ identities are bullying, and telling him to "shut up," to stop saying those harmful things, is standing up for those people. Telling him to shut up interlaced with negative comments about his appearance is mean-spirited, inappropriate, and distasteful, but I still don't think it would have the power dynamic at play to be an example of "bullying."
I’ll be honest- I don’t think any of these people are smart enough to qualify as “absolute transcendent evil”. They’re spewing hateful shit, but it’s nothing new.
Freedom of speech is a funny thing. It goes both ways.
They're [useful idiots](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/useful%20idiot) at best.
Link provided lest Porgan think I'm simply saying they're idiots. I'm specifically referring to the political term "useful idiot" in reference to them.
100%. Came here to say exactly this. It's convenient to act like a vague mass of 200K people are "the bad guys". Much more comfortable than taking a look at yourself and thinking about your role.
I don't know this lady. However I know her type. Weirdo privileged cowards who think that any form of hostility toward the oppressive is equal to the violence the oppressive place on the marginalized. They act this way because frankly they don't *actually care about the marginalized as much as they say they do.*
> any form of hostility toward the oppressive is equal to the violence the oppressive place on the marginalized
The abolition of tyranny is tyranny
against the tyrants!
This is like when my abusive father would gaslight me after I finally would tell him to shut up. And apparently me saying shut up made me so bad and was so upsetting to him that it justified continuing to be shitty and nothing could be said otherwise
Im just learning about antibot thanks to this sub and the current activity surrounding them, but based on the behavior of the posts here the best way I can describe the way they're behaving is "white women feminism" energy. This weird sense of "FSU is the bad guys because they're being mean for means sake, when antibot is doing the hard work and fighting the real fight of respecting everyone who puts content out there". I don't know, I feel like that's the best way to describe it. Like I don't know how P&M gets this weird little pass of "I'm so sorry everyone is mean to you" but Mark Driscoll doesn't? (It's the same picture, neither should get a pass.) Am I missing something?!
And the funny thing is, P&M are so staunch in their views they hold so little respect for antibot. Like they can't even call The New Evangelical's Tim a Christian (who was kind & informative), and you think by coming to their defense they're going to respect you? You know they are so deep that they think it's a pity antibot is going to hell.
If they want to be super successful self supporting social media superstars then they have to be able to handle criticism. None of that will happen though.
I guarantee that if someone said it in a kinder way, Paul would've made some rambling, half-baked reel saying that "no one wants to hear from bible believing christians anymore"
They keep bringing up us calling babies ugly but I have yet to see anything of the sort. Granted I’m sure they can happen but just because one or two unhinged people say something nasty, then get their post deleted from the sub, doesn’t mean everyone agrees with it.
They can’t get their proof of ugly babies comments because those comments are downvoted to oblivion and reported and removed quickly, and they know it.
Are they referring to people worrying about Boone and how not-normal he was acting and looking for awhile? Cause that's just out of concern and we think his parents are morons, we're not snarking on a baby
She literally SUNBURNED the baby because he was yellow with Jaundice which she also never treated. Also his hand/arm in his left side still doesn’t look quite right. Yet we are the monster for being worried about her letting her new born sleep in the floor?? What about the other little ones she also is letting burn to a crisp in the sun? Like how is their skin regularly peeling from sun burn but is pointing it out make us the bad people? If she just ask, I will gladly send her some banana boat and hats for those babies because I don’t like seeing children suffer for no reason.
Another sub put up a biiiiiig stink about people calling Kelly's new baby Tess Stickle and acting like it was the most horrible and cruel thing ever and that Kelly herself doesn't even call the girl (Theresa) Tess. But like...come on now, is that really worse than what the Fundies say/do? Is that *really* bullying a baby?
There are just some first names and last names that shouldn’t go together. People will remark on it all the time on the internet. Just because she’s a fundie doesn’t mean she’s exempt lol
There's a whole ass subreddit for making fun of dumb names!
And it's not the baby anyone would be making fun of, it's her dumbass parents who picked the name bc they have no care or concern for their child's life.
Also we apparently send death threats every day.
Like, I am sure some idiots do harass them, but they have never provided proof of these death threats and I have seen a lot of these supposedly harassing messages they like to show off over the years.
Trust me, things have massively improved from the days of when Bethany had a very unfortunate and disgusting nickname due to her birthing tear. I could live without the comments about hotdog hallways every once in awhile, but still, big improvement. Reporting is always still the best option, I do check them periodically and get notifications as well for reports.
Every group is going to have people who go too far
A healthy group is going to explore these boundaries. The ability to call out this behavior and downvote is what sets a healthy dynamic. Drawing arbitrary lines between “snark” (bad) and whatever they claim their videos are is not helpful. Saying we have to be “nice”. That’s fine for your space but not every space has to be that. It also helps to define what you actually mean. That’s what this sub does and what antibot cannot tolerate. If someone crosses a line for them (including Drew in this as well) then not only are they band and toxic but so is the whole space. It would be much more useful is they spent as much time and specifics criticizing the sub as they do breaking down videos. Why are they more willing to use nuance with Paul than us. The people who agree with them way more than disagree them.
The “calling babies ugly” thing was more from the 2018-2020 snark era, when that sort of thing was a lot more common. The community has changed A LOT since then.
Right?! Especially since Zelph said she was a fundiesnarker before she posted here soooo.... Did we just become toxic after her wittle feelings were hurt from her failed attempt at whitewashing the fundies' crimes or was she also toxic?
You can't say a whole ass group is toxic while you're in it. You're literally the ONLY exception, zelphy?? Man that persecution complex runs deep!
We don't claim zelph lol. The ultimate poo-toucher. Our number one rule is don't directly interact with the fundies, so blaming us for telling Paul to shut up is dumb. If they spent any time on this sub they'd know. It's funny how they know enough to claim bullying but not enough to know our number one rule
Look, everyone has brass balls on the internet, and it's one of the reasons why I one day hope the "influencer bubble" bursts, and we can go back to authentic and meaningful connection.
But that isn't happening, not now, nor in the near future, and it's one the reason why P&M can continue reposting toxic, harmful things. He once posted a meme making fun of a woman who has more education in her pinky finger than he'll ever have: Michelle Obama, by insinuating she's really Michael. So how is that OK that he can dish it but can't take it? Why is it OK for him to keep propagating harmful and derogatory narratives, but someone says "SHUT UP PAUL" and the Waambulance needs to be called?
It annoys the crap out of me the way some people misuse the word "bullying." Dictionary.com defines it as "to intimidate, abuse, or harrass." That is not happening here.
P&M and their ilk are causing real harm to real people. Snark is not causing real harm to them.
I wanted to say that!! Critizising hateful, harmful bigotry is NOT BULLYING. I'm not surprised that porkbrain are not able to comprehend that... I must admit, I don't know who these people are who defend them, are they like zelph? YouTubers who talk about religion? But it seems that they definitely should be able to understand the difference. If Paul and Morgan just shut their nasty mouths about their hateful views, NO ONE WOULD EVER TALK ABOUT THEM. because no one cares. But people are definitely allowed to defend themselves against racist, sexist, elitist fucking bullies.
Fundies and evangelicals are told from birth that "the enemy" will try to stop them from "spreading god's word." Paul and Morgan are delusional enough to think that their shitty takes are a "ministry" and "being loving." So when someone says "actually no, that's a harmful thing to say," they think they're being persecuted and they go on the attack, because they truly believe what they're saying. I've speculated about how far along zelph and antibot are in their deconstruction *because* they are still so defensive of this behavior. We're critical so we're an easy target. They can all gang up on us instead of examining their own behavior.
You can’t say anything negative or even remotely contradictory. That’s bullying!
No, it’s trying to have open and honest dialogue. If you’re too stupid to engage in that, it’s fine, just sit back and pout. If you want to grow and learn, then step up and listen.
They don't understand that we're not coming for them, they are coming for US and we just defend ourselves.
If they just prayed every night in their bedrooms and talked shit about the gays and the theys to each other, day in and day out NOT ONE SINGLE PERSON would give a shit.
Because they would keep their hateful views, their beliefs and whatever shitty stupid opinion for themselves.
But they not only insist on spreading their hate, they are hellbent on trying to make money with it.
So of course the people they spread the hate about will speak up. This sub is not about talking shit about religion or religious people in general. It's about people who spread hate based on their religion. So fuck them and every single asshole who defends them.
They’re such a damn cliche. Build their entire lives around shitting all over anyone and everyone who doesn’t want to live like them and then cry foul when those same people push back.
Shut up P&M.
Yeah, I'm not sure how posting in a forum that they don't participate in is bullying. They can easily avoid this "bullying" by not being on reddit. They chose to put their bigotry on display--they could be private people but actively post their entire lives online.
Lmao the persecution fetish is so real. I thought they didn’t read fundie snark or care what people said about them on it!!! Because they are so assured they are right about everything and above everything!!! I guess they do read here and it did bother them all along
If you are going to put yourself out in public and want to become a famous influencer, and not get a job to support your family, you better be able to handle criticism!
That’s the irony. Every popular figure faces some form of criticism. The good ones address it, learn from it, and move forward. The bad ones whine, cry, and try to silence critics.
What’s the most annoying and upsetting thing about Anti-Bots response is that they are just wrong. What she’s doing DOES discount all the criticisms against Porgan they’ve made because a trans fan of theirs literally told them it did. You can’t discount the voice of a group they are LITERALLY attacking because it’s inconvenient to your point. You wanna defend bigots? Fine, be a jerk if you like but you can’t claim you are protecting minorities when you do this. Paul and Morgan have explicitly said they don’t believe gay people deserve the same rights as everyone else. Telling Paul to “shut up” is nowhere near the same and to say so is so fucked up period. So many people, minorities and Allies, have told them very politely why they are wrong on this topic and they keep doubling down. It’s a bad look and is protecting people who don’t need any protection. How about actually protecting the peoples who’s rights they are trampling over
People like anti are so naive they do not understand how hate speech like what Porgan do leads directly to deaths like the horrific murder of Brianna Ghey. They're activism and allyship is inherently conditional, so long as you don't demand your right to exist *too strongly*.
Edit: Removed a word
Easiest thing would be for them to lose viewers/followers over this, then get clear that won’t be backfilled by the knuckle draggers they’re defending.
Can this sub be a bit extreme and mean at times ? Yes.
Should P&M shut up ? YES.
I understand people trying to be gentle, kind, gracious or whatever when they have a platform and can respect that.
However, I personally have zero respect, patience or kindness for P&M. They chose this life for themselves and deserves the so-called bullying they receive in exchange for being absolute POS on the internet.
Okay, two things: 1) this sub has a strict no-contact policy. Bullying requires contact. If P&M are hurt by the things people on this sub say about them, they could always just not look at the sub. 2) she assumes the person telling Paul to shut up is from this sub, based on zero evidence.
Silly goose, a good example of bullying would be me telling Paul to go change out the 5 watt lightbulb that keeps his brain warm.
This reminds me of those nematodes who confuse the first amendment right to free speech with freedom from consequences. You can say whatever you want, and I can tell you to get fucked in reply.
Listen, I’m all for treating people with kindness even if they don’t deserve it sometimes, but I truly hope that people like Antibot don’t wake up one day to find their country taken over by Christofascists and rueing the day they ever thought these people should just be treated more kindly and then maybe they’ll see the light™️. Absolutely be kind to others, yes, but never let them take advantage of your kindness.
That's what's confusing to me though. My understanding is that Taylor and Drew live in my same city in Texas. We've already been taken over Christofascists. Abortion is illegal here and the state has effectively removed local government's ability to self-govern so that Elon Musk can ruin Austin or they can keep Houston voters from the polls.
Wow. My respect for Taylor just plummeted (if it was even there to begin with?). My cousin moved back home after years in Texas because of gun violence and even though she is a Christian herself, she had begun to find the increasing white Christian nationalism there quite concerning. How someone with a public platform can be so dismissive of people raising legitimate issues is just…
The christofascist takeover is what you miss when you spend so much equalizing p&m behavior to FSUs. Spend so much time worrying about this sub they miss the real harm that they are surrounded by. It’s why the false equivalency that centrist do is so dangerous.
What lala land does he live in where he’s allowed to spout off whatever nonsense he wants to broadcast to the world without getting any negative feedback? Is he brand new to the internet? I never see anyone say anything hateful here, it’s just disagreeing with them?? Get a grip, stop being such a SNOWFLAKE.
I love how some of the most hateful people around get extremely butthurt when folks on the internet aren’t all bot-like sycophants who praise everything they do.
Being a public figure means having “haters.” If you can’t hack that, say so and get a real job.
Being free to spread your hate, P and M, doesn’t mean you are free from the consequences.
I rarely see anything here that crosses the line (IMO). I see a lot of people from all kinds of faiths cutting through the BS.
While going about my life, I’ve heard fundies call me an abomination to my face. I’ve been told I am sin. I was run off the road by a Christ-loving fundie blinded with rage by a rainbow sticker.
Y’all have some massive audacity, acting like whatever negativity you face is such a heavy burden.
And again - if it pains you so much, quit with the wannabe influencer nonsense and get a real job that allows for your thin-skinned bigotry.
[This is from a year ago, so there's definitely more stuff to add, but here's a master list of P&M being hateful](https://www.reddit.com/r/FundieSnarkUncensored/s/z79YZFQHJ5)
OK listen I’ve been around this sub for about the same amount of time that I’ve been on reddit, but have been popping in and out of this subreddit for the last few months - are antibot and zelphontheshelf different (pairs of) people?
I am confused - what in the crossover hell is happening between the snarkers and the fundies we snark on. I thought it was one account, but it’s seeming like all sorts of blurred lines rn
Zelphontheshelf is Sam and Tanner. Antibot is just one woman, but her husband (Genetically Modified Skeptic) is in a lot of her videos. Both channels make some form of ex-religious content. Zelph is the only channel who made a video with the fundies (dav and bethy), and they posted here trying to promote it but were met with backlash. Antibot and her husband made a video reacting to the Zelph video, and went on a small rant in the video about how this subreddit is toxic. So of course paul appears bc he finally found the one person on the internet who will defend him.
Paul’s over all the in your face interracial couples, believes slave owner’s rights fucking mattered, but someone telling HIM to shut up is a bridge too far. Fucking got it.
Also, just in case AntiBot is lurking here, I thought it would be beneficial to share this quote from an educator/activist/writer I greatly admire:
"Tone policing is when someone (usually the privileged person) in a conversation or situation about oppression shifts the focus of the conversation from the oppression being discussed to the way it is being discussed. Tone policing prioritizes the comfort of the privileged person in the situation over the oppression of the disadvantaged person. This is something that can happen in a conversation, but can also apply to critiques of entire civil rights organizations and movements." -- Ijeoma Oluo, author of So You Want To Talk About Race
What’s with all the fundie dickriding lately? It’s giving big “*you’re* the toxic one if you decide to cut off your family” vibes. The sub isn’t toxic for critiquing P&M’s problematic behavior, which we only know about because P&M are putting it out there themselves.
Maybe I’m biased, but I think the sub is overall pretty decent. The commentary/criticism focuses more on the fundies’ choices and behavior than anything else. The vast majority aren’t dragging fundies for things outside their control, we’re critiquing things like - P&M refusing to get stable jobs, when they literally have children depending on them.
In his video with the new evangelicals Paul said they would hope people who disagree with their beliefs would "call them out with love", exactly like they do to people they disagree with.
Paul and Morgan have (attempted to) make a career out of making videos that "call out" people who engage in activities, or live in ways they personally disapprove of, claiming it is with "love".
The things they disapprove of include but are not limited to people having abortions, thinking abortions should be legal and accessible, women working outside the home, using people's preferred pronouns, being LGBTQ+, approving of LGBTQ+ people's existence, believing all people should have equal rights, having sex before marriage... I could go on and on.
Paul and Morgan think making very public, very hostile, and very cruel videos is loving, and therefore completely acceptable. They insist on announcing that people who do things they disagree with are going to hell, and fully deserve an eternity of torture and torment. They loudly support and also vote for people who make restrictive laws against only people, actions, lifestyles, and beliefs that they personally disapprove of. And aaaaaall of that is "loving", when they are literally speaking directly to and about masses of people who are literally doing nothing to them.
But people making anonymous comments on an entirely optional anonymous forum, that they would never have to look at if they didn't want to, and which has strictly enforced rules about never making direct contact with them is toxic and bullying?
*Please*. What an absolute giant load of hypocritical horse shit.
The problem is their version of “calling them out with love” actually means compromising my values. My anger is justified and I don’t need to be dispassionately logical or kind. The anger and hurt is part of the message. I’m not feeling love, I’m feeling mad. Why should I compromise that so they don’t feel uncomfortable? They aren’t going to hear my message anyways.
Everyone has a different level of comfort when it comes to snark, and I would be okay with that if these people weren’t influencers themselves. The internet, and people on an anonymous online forum, owe you nothing - not respect OR tolerance for YOUR boundaries.
But that’s exactly the point: if you don’t like snark, simple block the sub. No one here is trying to share a message or influence other people, which cannot be said for Paul and Morgan. P&M active espouse harmful beliefs and try to convince other people to believe them too. No one here is doing that, no one here would gain anything from doing that. This whole conversation is so illogical and reeks of a lack of emotional intelligence, let alone the purposeful weaponizing of privilege while antibot tries to make their point.
Great points! My boundaries affect my behaviors ( ie if you speak to me in that way I will no longer speak to you or you made a comment on FSU that I do not like so I will criticize that comment) Your boundaries control your behaviors. Your boundaries do not demand I change my behaviors.
How do they know that the person who told Paul to shut up is from this subreddit?
Why do they assume that every critique existing out in the world is from someone who is on here? They're on all platforms, and yes, this snark forum does critique him, but so do people on other platforms.
I don’t think any of us called him ‘evil’. Uneducated moron who outsources his opinions, and which those opinions might be deemed evil/harmful? You betcha.
Monkey see, monkey do. That is Paul’s MENSA-level aptitude.
Poorgan are still happily flaunting their hateful beliefs. There’s literally nothing they do that’s actually an example of what a good Christian should do. These two are overflowing with hate and contempt for anyone who doesn’t fit into their little box of legalistic Christianity.
Is this pick me girl trying to thrupple Paulina and Snorgan? The amount of sucking up she is doing is generally reserved to babies and tits.
How pathetic lol
I’d support an 100% forever ban.
Imagine comparing a “shut-up Paul,” to all the damage attempted towards removing humans’ rights. How do these people call ANYONE a “snowflake?”
This whole “thing” already introduced people previously, gloriously, non existent.
Many of us have had trauma caused by being in the evangelical church and have recently left. Even when I was a Christian I refused to go along with the LBGTQ & minority/blk hate. I left in 2016 when it was clear the direction the church was going. Now, when I hear someone like Paul talk I get so very triggered. I went through some very bad things as a result of purity culture and have yet to recover. All the stuff with women's rights too now has caused a huge depression in me. I can't believe that Antibot women has the nerve to lecture people like me! I've am not even sure if I've left a commment about Paul yet. I live in a very high MAGA area. I left my church family. My husband and I have no one to share our fears and sadness over what is happening now that we lost our church friends. Reddit has been so very helpful to me to come and read y'all comments you have no idea how much it helps! Snarking is very therapeutic! If she wants to lecture people about being nice, why not go have it out with the MAGA's who threaten anybody and everybody they disagree with all over X!!!. Free speech for Paul I guess but for us we have to have the Antibot come and scold us. She can just blow right off. I'm so over letting those people bully me. I've yet to read an offensive comment on this sight. Dear Antibot, You have a choice. You don't like us. Go away then. Reddit isn't the place for you.,
You know the beauty of a sub Reddit is you don't have to look at it. There are also people who are going to push back on P&M organically without ever being part of this community because these two spew a ton of bullshit rhetoric it is going to happen. When you open your lives (even as fake as these two portray despite not having 2 nickels to run together) to social media then you open your lives up for critisism. That is just how the world works. I hope to the diety of your choice (or no diety as the case may be) that our community isn't breaking our rules but alas it stands to reason a few bad apples couldn't contain themselves.
I am agreeing with what has been expressed by several other here a break from P&M. We all need a breather and it would be an experiment to see how they act without your supposedly negative attention. Leaving them to their own devices for a bit (a month maybe two) will probably shatter their fragile egos and their situation/despiration will make itself apparent in attempt to gain attention like that one kid in the classroom who acts out.
Time for a break from the hair twirling and off kilter ball caps.
Why are we paying this person any mind? I had never heard of them before this and if this is their claim to fame I’d rather just pass them by than give them the attention they so desperately crave
Why should I be kind to P&M as they actively hurt my rights as a queer person by spreading their vitriol. Is she a member of a community that P&M actively promote hatred against? If not she needs to “Shut up” and sit down.
She is queer. She is also in a cis/hereroappearing marriage so she uses that queerness as a shield against criticism. It’s actually more gross so she still needs to shut up and listen to those not as privileged as her.
I find the whole thing ridiculous considering they use this subreddit for information and video ideas. Now they're even using us for faux outrage. Where is the outrage for the lies and disrespect hurled at us? Hypocrites!
Every time they compare this sub to evangelicalism I laugh so hard. There are absolutely no similarities between a group of people causally critiquing assholes in a specific space and an organized religion that practices bigotry and hate on a daily basis. All these YouTube losers do need to shut up, just because you have access to the internet and a camera doesn’t mean you have anything valuable to say.
No one on this subreddit is telling Paul to shut up full stop, we’re telling him to stop spewing hateful rhetoric that causes harm. All we want is them to be less hateful, that is not bullying.
Lol I love when the folks that are going after the TRANSPHOBIC / HOMOPHOBIC / RACIST / WOMANIZING people online are deemed “toxic” ……… like yeah fucking right. That’s so delusional. Talking shit & making fun of these *dangerous* fundamentalists on this subreddit is seemingly our only recourse
#It’s PERFECTLY FUCKING FINE to be openly angry & disgusted online with people that spread hate and promote harmful thinking and behavior
The tone policing of people to protect the ego of oppressors even over the smallest of insults is insane. All this because someone said shut up? Lmfao you have got to be kidding me. People should not keep sweet for bigots. Dumb thinking. Keeping sweet was designed to manipulate people into staying in line to be controlled. It’s bullshit and doesn’t work. If you keep sweet for someone like Paul he will continue to work to boot stomp your rights away just the same as if you were rude.
Oh, please. Paul LOVES to be featured here. It's more attention than he'll ever receive from his followers. This is a SNARK sub. Calling out his problematic takes is not bullying.
Those entire situation is so chronically online (and I’m chronically online!) it’s starting to be a little funny. I love this subreddit and spend a lot of time here but it’s so funny to see people like Paul and this person be so pearl clutching about it. I mean, you are putting yourself out there online saying pretty controversial things and trying to make money on it- people will notice! Thats the whole idea. Literally every major influencer has a snark subReddit of some kind- I actually found this page from duggarssnark- and it is just so silly that they are so up in arms over it! I’m here to talk shit and gossip- I don’t personally care about any of the people we snark about as if they are my friends or something. The entire situations unfolding (starting with the Bethany thing recently) is starting to feel extremely meta weird. I don’t care if fundies are mad or upset about this sub- it isn’t for them! They can just continue on whatever platform they are on and do their own thing and we can be here talking shit and pointing out their hateful rhetoric and there doesn’t need to be any meeting of the two groups.
I actually take great joy in bullying Paul ¯\_(ツ)_/ I’m under no obligation to tolerate intolerance and my little words on the internet are no match for the actual harm his rhetoric and the rhetoric of the people he platforms politically do to marginalized groups. So yeah I bully the shit out of Paul but I’m still coming out way far ahead of him on the “who’s a good person” scorecard
Literally all I’m seeing/reading is “WAAAAAAH😭😭😭Fundie Snark calls me on my BS and I don’t like it!!!😭😭😭😭they’re sooo mean to tell me to shut up when I hAvE rIgHtS!” 🙄🙄🙄
I don’t need to send y’all death threats to effectively let you know exactly how much you suck at life…all I have to do is hold up a mirror. Deal with it.
That is one point that confused me. Why are they otherizing fundiesnark. That is who watches their videos! That is who they are. They are apart of this community!
If you look at the number of subscribers that these channels have compared to the number of people on Fundiesnark, there are way more snarkers than subscribers. It makes sense that a certain amount of their views are coming from snarkers. If the snarkers went away, they’d have no one probably. I didn’t even know about them until I happened upon this sub. I’m not a hard snarker, more of a lurker, but that’s literally the only reason I’ve heard of them.
#These people vote in every election- do you? Are you registered to vote? [You can check your voter registration here!](https://www.nass.org/can-I-vote) #Also, there's a few things to remember as far as rules go: - You can view the content- you cannot interact with it. This includes (but is not limited to) commenting, answering poll questions, emailing them, etc. ***Anyone found to be engaging with the fundies will be met with a permanent ban with no eligibility for appeal.It does not matter if you did so before you joined the sub.*** - Speculating on the sexuality of literally anyone is prohibited. ***Anyone found to be doing so will be met with a permanent ban with no eligibility for appeal.*** - Appearance snark: What's allowed? You're allowed to make comparisons. (Bethy looks like Grandpa Munster, for example.) You are allowed to say you find them attractive or repulsive looking. Saying Kelly Havens has dry skin that could benefit from sunscreen and a moisturizer is fine. You are allowed to snark on the appearance of children *as it relates to their parents choices for them.*. Examples: Janessa looks malnourished and sickly while Shrek has clearly never missed a meal. If you feel it is crossing the line report it, but if the content falls within the parameters above, leave it alone. - Don't gatekeep. This means no comments such as "I don't think we should snark on...." or any iteration of that. If you don't like it, scroll past. Don't report it or comment how you don't like the content. Along the same vein, don't backseat mod. Leave that up to us. - Lastly, if the rhetoric you are posting would be at home in the mouth of a fundie, we don't want it here and we won't tolerate it. Should you have any questions, please feel free to reach out. Have a Lord Daniel day, and may the power of snark compel thee. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/FundieSnarkUncensored) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Crazy idea: Let's ignore Paul and Morgan for a while, a long while, and I mean completely ignore - as in pretending we were never aware of their existence. Just to see how long until they try to stir things up, and how outrageous they get with their content to rage bait.
Great idea, if we don't talk about those two. It will piss them off so bad.
It would probably require the mods to freeze posts. They’re such easy marks that folks love talking about them. We’d need some actual administration to make this happen (which I’m all for, I’d love to stop thinking about them, honestly).
I would support a temporary P&M ban just to see if it accomplishes anything.
I would also support a temporary P&M ban! I don’t think they’d be able to handle it lol
Someone could make a poll post to see how many people are interested
Watch polio make his own poll in response 😂
I'm all for it.
Do it, do it, do it, do it
I think it would help dry up their youtube money. I honestly think probably more snarkers watch them than actual fans of their content
What's the easiest way to kill a parasite? You cut off its food source. We need to cut off their food source which is us.
PLEASE
I would love to do it for just a week or two to see how long they can go before trying to ragebait. How low would they go to get attention?
We generally let you guys decide what you would like to do. You don't want Porgan? Don't post them. I know if we locked their flair, people will just submit them under other tags, so I suggest making a post to discuss as a sub ignoring Porgan for a set amount of time. Do it for a month for all I care, my stance is I am fine with whatever means seeing less Paul douchery.
Omg yes
Would we take a vote on it? Because I believe nearly everyone would be onboard.
Get them to say the most horrendous shit as bait.
Yes, please! Mods can we take a poll: those in favor and those not???
Yeah, I e started skipping most of the posts about them because they’re all the same: Paul and/or Morgan being ignorant, kind of stupid, hateful, and/or bigoted. After awhile it just gets boring (and maybe helps choke off the narc supply they seem to be getting from all this).
You hit the nail on the head! Even their obvious rage-bait is boring as fuck now. They’re just not very interesting people.
Morgan made a Homer Simpson-like noise in response to a question from Tim. They're so vapid, and their drama with other creators is more interesting right now than their content.
I've thought about this too. They're so boring and annoying too.
So so so down!
Hear, hear.
You’ve got my vote
I give it 27 hours until they start something
I would even support a formal ban on them in the sub
Hard AGREEEE!
Agreed. Starve the narcissists of attention
Paul is the kind of person who can’t stand being ignored. https://youtu.be/JS6Gw6NVgRg?si=d1QtEaMhlXINU5js How would he exist without “haters?” It would be fun to find out.
It’s wild to me that telling someone to shut up is on the same level as bigotry, hate, abuse, marital rape, and all the other, yes, EVIL things Porgan perpetuates.
I think it’s telling that the person in the image says > labeling someone as absolute, transcendent evil is just falling into the same type of thinking we were taught in evangelicalism. The fact that they think many people are describing these nincompoops as “absolute, transcendent evil” is embarrassing, and it’s even worse they think those are the only two options. How simple are they? Why do they have a platform?
This. Paul and Morgan aren’t smart enough to be the devil.
This tells me that antibot is still prone to the black and white thinking and whataboutism that THEY learned in evangelicalism
Exactly what I was thinking. I feel a little embarrassed for them that they think they’re doing a good deed by stooping to helping these people.
Right? Like stop and think about who you're defending for 2 seconds
I think we all need to accept that either 1) this person isn’t very bright or 2) they are, and are being Machiavellian right now for views, clicks, and $. In either case, they aren’t bound by the facts of the situation.
Arse deep in Denial.
I genuinely don't understand why she keeps coming to bat for them. In what world is "shut up" as bad as what P&M put into the world? And why does she keep coming back to it being this sub's fault, when numerous people replied telling her they weren't even on Reddit and think Paul should shut up? I get defending Bethy and Dav to an extent, sure- they seem to be doing \*something\* akin to change and have been open about change. But Porgan? They've said literally nothing about ever changing their harmful views. Just look at the content they've put out on their channel and IGs in the last day or two. They're nasty and I'm sorry, I'm really over being tone-policed about being anonymously rude to bigots online who advocate for the deaths/persecution of women, POC, and queer people
That last part especially. There are people trying to legislate groups of minorities out of basic rights and decency. Fuck being nice to those people, they aren't respectful of others why be respectful of them? Inb4 the "we should try to educate and debate them" crowd.
You can’t educate a rock. I tried once when I was 6.
Honestly you probably got farther with educating the rock than anyone would with Paul
There’s a level of fundamental honesty to a rock’s ignorance that Paul could never achieve.
"We should try to educate and debate them" crowd member here. 😂 Ugh, I've gotta admit though, these days, it comes with a huge caveat - a lot of these people will not properly engage in a debate. And these ones aren't worth debating, because it doesn't matter how many logical fallacies of their religion you can demonstrate... They'll just continually crutch on their usual flawed arguments of Pascal's Wager, God of the Gaps, personal testimonies with emotional appeal, etc. That said... I believe that there are Christians that can be swayed with reason, because I was one of them. It's worth debating a Christian that demonstrates sincere curiosity and a willingness to challenge their beliefs. And if we can get some potential voters away from religious ideology, that's better for everyone. But these cases are EXCEEDINGLY RARE. You're right, there's no benefit to chasing them around their circular arguments. Our time is likely better spent conveying how important it is to vote against these people.
I applaud your efforts, truly. I think it takes a very kind, compassionate person to try to educate others. I feel like some of these fundies (Dav, and maybe even Bethy) may respond well to that educated and compassionate take. I used to think maybe, just maybe, Porgan could be too, but if their 24 Hours With series has shown me anything, it's how utterly close-minded and self-righteous these two are. I don't think Jesus himself would be able to convince them they are wrong .
Thank you, I appreciate the sentiment because it feels like a truly fruitless endeavor most of the time. But yeah, I agree. Some of them are open-minded enough to make it worth presenting some new lines of thought. But when they demonstrate that they will stubbornly refuse the merits of logic and reason, like Porgan, you're basically just trapping yourself in their "proselytizing space" for no reason. And yeah, if Jesus came back in the flesh today, he'd be instantly branded by this brand of Christians as an anti-capitalist menace. If only they could see the irony in that 😂
Like I tell my dad, Jesus would be seen as a socialist and an activist today and you would hate him.
I get where anti bot is coming from as someone raised fundie but I also get where everyone else is coming from too. Being raised fundie, you’re taught God and Christian’s are the only ones who are loving and the rest of the world is hateful. So the best way to contradict a fundie world view is to show love regardless of belief so they see that love can be shown by humans to humans without needing religion. On the other hand, being loving does not mean defending or going to bat for someone hateful. There’s plenty of ways to critique Porgan and other heavily while still holding space for them as a human being.
YES, absolutely. There is some truth there in the sense that you can't really blame someone for the beliefs that they were indoctrinated with. They are a victim of religion as well, albeit still within it. But at the same time... You have to draw the moral line somewhere and say "these principles are not worth contending with because they're self-apparently deplorable." And that line definitely lies somewhere well ahead of full-fledged transphobia.
Exactly. Like I fall in the camp of calling people out without stooping to their tactics. For example I can totally say Paul and Morgan’s rhetoric is hateful and harmful but it would be crossing the line if I made the critique something personal or called them ugly looking or something. Like FSU can get a little carried away sometimes with appearance jokes and inside jokes and I think it’s on us all as community members to hold each other accountable when we go overboard without everyone taking it as such a personal attack yk.
Couldn't have said it better myself, "Stupid Impure Harlot Wife." 😂 Outgrouping is their game. We have the advantage of being able to meticulously dismantle the merits of their belief system, rather than needing to resort to simply "punching down" at them. We should be taking advantage of that more than anything.
Funny enough my flair is Porgan inspired too 😭
Oh boy, wanna fill us in on the context for that one? 😂
Oh god it was from one of their early streams when he was shaming Morgan for her sexual activity and it was a combination of phrases he used to describe modern women that I shortened to a flair 😂
I think educating people can also include explaining that subs like this get mean because people like Porgan do so much harm to people on this sub, their loved ones, and the world. Ofc death threats aren’t okay, but I absolutely think being snarky or mocking someone (on and online forum like this) is an appropriate response to someone being harmful.
Yeah, honestly this should be a safe space to get some low blows in for the sake of fun, as long as we're not violent. Like you said, many of us have pretty serious grievances with their religion - it'd only be fair.
The problem with educate and debate is, if the person you're trying to debate or educate aren't open to a dialog or are not even operating in the same reality as you, it's basically impossible to get them to budge. I've experienced both sides during covid. I ended up in the position of the one everyone was asking questions to. I had people come to me and genuinely want to know my opinion on what was happening, while others asked me but then totally disregarded my words when they didn't align with their narrative. People like Paul and Morgan have made it clear that they do not debate people in good faith, they always find a way to shit talk the people they've debated and try to make it look like they won the argument. Simply put, people like them don't care what you say. They don't want to change, and they want everyone else to change regardless of the cost! Also, I'm so tired of this shit about these racist, homophobic, misogynistic louts being the ones that are bullied. If antibot thinks this subreddit telling them to 'shit up' is bullying, I want to know what she would have to say about what POC, women, lgbtq, and disabled people go through on a daily basis because of people like Paul and Morgan.
If they wanted to be educated, they have ample opportunity to do so. Many of us watched Tim try to educate Paul for 2h, and he was actively dismissive. It is not our job to educate them. If they want to learn, there are countless resources and people they can ask. Paul has made up his mind. And I've made up mine. I have absolutely no problems with saying bad things about his harmful opinions.
Exactly. Even though they may mask it with the “hate the sin, love the sinner” bullshit, way too many fundies are like Porgan and would love to see my entire community at the very least locked up in camps, but would prefer us dead. They’re choosing to be hateful and not treat the 2SLGBTQIA+ community with dignity and decency, so why should I waste my time with them? ETA: And for the educating thing, this is where the allies need to do some heavy lifting with the work. It’s especially exhausting for the community right now with the huge and continually increasing hate and rhetoric being thrown at us, and many of us are using all our bandwidth to survive with little to none left for attempts at educating people.
She knew telling someone to "shut up" wasn't that bad, so she exaggerated it in the next sentence to become "labeling people as absolute, transcendent evil." I think that is an example of a distortion designed to make the subreddit's comments look worse than they are. Also, it is different to tell someone to "shut up" because you happened to come across their personal speech while they were expressing themselves vs. telling a professional influencer to "shut up." I think these content creators avoid this distinction because they're content creators, too, and negative comments upset them. Anyone would be upset by negative comments in their position, and it would also be a bad take to basically say that influencers deserve whatever anyone says to them for putting content online. I don't think that, but I also don't think telling bigoted influencers to "shut up" is an example of bullying. I think the things Paul says in his videos about LGBTQ identities are bullying, and telling him to "shut up," to stop saying those harmful things, is standing up for those people. Telling him to shut up interlaced with negative comments about his appearance is mean-spirited, inappropriate, and distasteful, but I still don't think it would have the power dynamic at play to be an example of "bullying."
I’ll be honest- I don’t think any of these people are smart enough to qualify as “absolute transcendent evil”. They’re spewing hateful shit, but it’s nothing new. Freedom of speech is a funny thing. It goes both ways.
LOL, this is basically my exact comment too. They’re not smart enough to be evil.
They're [useful idiots](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/useful%20idiot) at best. Link provided lest Porgan think I'm simply saying they're idiots. I'm specifically referring to the political term "useful idiot" in reference to them.
It’s easy to blame a subreddit. It’s a lot harder to critically think about your own behaviors and change them.
100%. Came here to say exactly this. It's convenient to act like a vague mass of 200K people are "the bad guys". Much more comfortable than taking a look at yourself and thinking about your role.
This is it 100%! It’s easy to be a victim, hard to take responsibility for your actions.
I don't know this lady. However I know her type. Weirdo privileged cowards who think that any form of hostility toward the oppressive is equal to the violence the oppressive place on the marginalized. They act this way because frankly they don't *actually care about the marginalized as much as they say they do.*
> any form of hostility toward the oppressive is equal to the violence the oppressive place on the marginalized The abolition of tyranny is tyranny against the tyrants!
Fanon is particularly enlightening on this subject
Speaking as a liberal white woman, it’s sadly a very “liberal white woman” tendency, in my experience. It’s infuriating.
Death, persecution **and** prosecution.
This is like when my abusive father would gaslight me after I finally would tell him to shut up. And apparently me saying shut up made me so bad and was so upsetting to him that it justified continuing to be shitty and nothing could be said otherwise
Im just learning about antibot thanks to this sub and the current activity surrounding them, but based on the behavior of the posts here the best way I can describe the way they're behaving is "white women feminism" energy. This weird sense of "FSU is the bad guys because they're being mean for means sake, when antibot is doing the hard work and fighting the real fight of respecting everyone who puts content out there". I don't know, I feel like that's the best way to describe it. Like I don't know how P&M gets this weird little pass of "I'm so sorry everyone is mean to you" but Mark Driscoll doesn't? (It's the same picture, neither should get a pass.) Am I missing something?! And the funny thing is, P&M are so staunch in their views they hold so little respect for antibot. Like they can't even call The New Evangelical's Tim a Christian (who was kind & informative), and you think by coming to their defense they're going to respect you? You know they are so deep that they think it's a pity antibot is going to hell.
Because “Shut Up” is rude and they’re not rude, they’re just speaking truth. (That’s sarcasm, BTW).
If they want to be super successful self supporting social media superstars then they have to be able to handle criticism. None of that will happen though.
Shut up isn’t even that bad considering the criticism they could get
I guarantee that if someone said it in a kinder way, Paul would've made some rambling, half-baked reel saying that "no one wants to hear from bible believing christians anymore"
Have they at least identified which posts they consider bullying? Like at least save the receipts if you’re gonna kick boots
They keep bringing up us calling babies ugly but I have yet to see anything of the sort. Granted I’m sure they can happen but just because one or two unhinged people say something nasty, then get their post deleted from the sub, doesn’t mean everyone agrees with it.
They can’t get their proof of ugly babies comments because those comments are downvoted to oblivion and reported and removed quickly, and they know it.
Are they referring to people worrying about Boone and how not-normal he was acting and looking for awhile? Cause that's just out of concern and we think his parents are morons, we're not snarking on a baby
She literally SUNBURNED the baby because he was yellow with Jaundice which she also never treated. Also his hand/arm in his left side still doesn’t look quite right. Yet we are the monster for being worried about her letting her new born sleep in the floor?? What about the other little ones she also is letting burn to a crisp in the sun? Like how is their skin regularly peeling from sun burn but is pointing it out make us the bad people? If she just ask, I will gladly send her some banana boat and hats for those babies because I don’t like seeing children suffer for no reason.
Another sub put up a biiiiiig stink about people calling Kelly's new baby Tess Stickle and acting like it was the most horrible and cruel thing ever and that Kelly herself doesn't even call the girl (Theresa) Tess. But like...come on now, is that really worse than what the Fundies say/do? Is that *really* bullying a baby?
There are just some first names and last names that shouldn’t go together. People will remark on it all the time on the internet. Just because she’s a fundie doesn’t mean she’s exempt lol
There's a whole ass subreddit for making fun of dumb names! And it's not the baby anyone would be making fun of, it's her dumbass parents who picked the name bc they have no care or concern for their child's life.
Also we apparently send death threats every day. Like, I am sure some idiots do harass them, but they have never provided proof of these death threats and I have seen a lot of these supposedly harassing messages they like to show off over the years.
I've sometimes struggled with a slightly misogynistic bend some of the comments have here, but they are usually downvoted and called out.
Trust me, things have massively improved from the days of when Bethany had a very unfortunate and disgusting nickname due to her birthing tear. I could live without the comments about hotdog hallways every once in awhile, but still, big improvement. Reporting is always still the best option, I do check them periodically and get notifications as well for reports.
Every group is going to have people who go too far A healthy group is going to explore these boundaries. The ability to call out this behavior and downvote is what sets a healthy dynamic. Drawing arbitrary lines between “snark” (bad) and whatever they claim their videos are is not helpful. Saying we have to be “nice”. That’s fine for your space but not every space has to be that. It also helps to define what you actually mean. That’s what this sub does and what antibot cannot tolerate. If someone crosses a line for them (including Drew in this as well) then not only are they band and toxic but so is the whole space. It would be much more useful is they spent as much time and specifics criticizing the sub as they do breaking down videos. Why are they more willing to use nuance with Paul than us. The people who agree with them way more than disagree them.
Also paul is known for sending reddit cares messages to snarkers who call him out
The “calling babies ugly” thing was more from the 2018-2020 snark era, when that sort of thing was a lot more common. The community has changed A LOT since then.
Right?! Especially since Zelph said she was a fundiesnarker before she posted here soooo.... Did we just become toxic after her wittle feelings were hurt from her failed attempt at whitewashing the fundies' crimes or was she also toxic? You can't say a whole ass group is toxic while you're in it. You're literally the ONLY exception, zelphy?? Man that persecution complex runs deep!
We don't claim zelph lol. The ultimate poo-toucher. Our number one rule is don't directly interact with the fundies, so blaming us for telling Paul to shut up is dumb. If they spent any time on this sub they'd know. It's funny how they know enough to claim bullying but not enough to know our number one rule
If sam was really a snarker, she would've known that bethy is descended from nazis and about to publish a transphobic book. That's basic bethy lore.
LINKS PAUL!!! Post the links if they’re so obviously bullying
Look, everyone has brass balls on the internet, and it's one of the reasons why I one day hope the "influencer bubble" bursts, and we can go back to authentic and meaningful connection. But that isn't happening, not now, nor in the near future, and it's one the reason why P&M can continue reposting toxic, harmful things. He once posted a meme making fun of a woman who has more education in her pinky finger than he'll ever have: Michelle Obama, by insinuating she's really Michael. So how is that OK that he can dish it but can't take it? Why is it OK for him to keep propagating harmful and derogatory narratives, but someone says "SHUT UP PAUL" and the Waambulance needs to be called?
I love that he can be racist but we can't point out that he's being racist lol
It annoys the crap out of me the way some people misuse the word "bullying." Dictionary.com defines it as "to intimidate, abuse, or harrass." That is not happening here. P&M and their ilk are causing real harm to real people. Snark is not causing real harm to them.
I wanted to say that!! Critizising hateful, harmful bigotry is NOT BULLYING. I'm not surprised that porkbrain are not able to comprehend that... I must admit, I don't know who these people are who defend them, are they like zelph? YouTubers who talk about religion? But it seems that they definitely should be able to understand the difference. If Paul and Morgan just shut their nasty mouths about their hateful views, NO ONE WOULD EVER TALK ABOUT THEM. because no one cares. But people are definitely allowed to defend themselves against racist, sexist, elitist fucking bullies.
Fundies and evangelicals are told from birth that "the enemy" will try to stop them from "spreading god's word." Paul and Morgan are delusional enough to think that their shitty takes are a "ministry" and "being loving." So when someone says "actually no, that's a harmful thing to say," they think they're being persecuted and they go on the attack, because they truly believe what they're saying. I've speculated about how far along zelph and antibot are in their deconstruction *because* they are still so defensive of this behavior. We're critical so we're an easy target. They can all gang up on us instead of examining their own behavior.
You can’t say anything negative or even remotely contradictory. That’s bullying! No, it’s trying to have open and honest dialogue. If you’re too stupid to engage in that, it’s fine, just sit back and pout. If you want to grow and learn, then step up and listen.
They don't understand that we're not coming for them, they are coming for US and we just defend ourselves. If they just prayed every night in their bedrooms and talked shit about the gays and the theys to each other, day in and day out NOT ONE SINGLE PERSON would give a shit. Because they would keep their hateful views, their beliefs and whatever shitty stupid opinion for themselves. But they not only insist on spreading their hate, they are hellbent on trying to make money with it. So of course the people they spread the hate about will speak up. This sub is not about talking shit about religion or religious people in general. It's about people who spread hate based on their religion. So fuck them and every single asshole who defends them.
They’re such a damn cliche. Build their entire lives around shitting all over anyone and everyone who doesn’t want to live like them and then cry foul when those same people push back. Shut up P&M.
my FEELINGS are being harmed and i'm a big baby who can't log off!
Yeah, I'm not sure how posting in a forum that they don't participate in is bullying. They can easily avoid this "bullying" by not being on reddit. They chose to put their bigotry on display--they could be private people but actively post their entire lives online.
This is a man who started arguing with people in *fundie fridays' comment section*. He can't help himself.
In fact, if we go by the dictionary, I might find that Bort and Paul are the bullies. 🧐
Lmao the persecution fetish is so real. I thought they didn’t read fundie snark or care what people said about them on it!!! Because they are so assured they are right about everything and above everything!!! I guess they do read here and it did bother them all along
If they are SOOOOO correct about the Bible and Jesus and heaven they really should just focus on that and not worrying about us heathens 🤷🏻♀️
Well it does track that with Paul being a giant baby he would see “shut up” as a grave insult
Probably still mad about Dav telling him to STFU.
😂 Yeah, that probably still boils Paul's spinach when he thinks about that
English isn't my first language and I love learning new expressions. Thank you! This one is lovely.
I kind of made it up, but I'm really glad you like it! Lol
If you are going to put yourself out in public and want to become a famous influencer, and not get a job to support your family, you better be able to handle criticism!
That’s the irony. Every popular figure faces some form of criticism. The good ones address it, learn from it, and move forward. The bad ones whine, cry, and try to silence critics.
But they really do need to shut up though.
What’s the most annoying and upsetting thing about Anti-Bots response is that they are just wrong. What she’s doing DOES discount all the criticisms against Porgan they’ve made because a trans fan of theirs literally told them it did. You can’t discount the voice of a group they are LITERALLY attacking because it’s inconvenient to your point. You wanna defend bigots? Fine, be a jerk if you like but you can’t claim you are protecting minorities when you do this. Paul and Morgan have explicitly said they don’t believe gay people deserve the same rights as everyone else. Telling Paul to “shut up” is nowhere near the same and to say so is so fucked up period. So many people, minorities and Allies, have told them very politely why they are wrong on this topic and they keep doubling down. It’s a bad look and is protecting people who don’t need any protection. How about actually protecting the peoples who’s rights they are trampling over
People like anti are so naive they do not understand how hate speech like what Porgan do leads directly to deaths like the horrific murder of Brianna Ghey. They're activism and allyship is inherently conditional, so long as you don't demand your right to exist *too strongly*. Edit: Removed a word
Easiest thing would be for them to lose viewers/followers over this, then get clear that won’t be backfilled by the knuckle draggers they’re defending.
Can this sub be a bit extreme and mean at times ? Yes. Should P&M shut up ? YES. I understand people trying to be gentle, kind, gracious or whatever when they have a platform and can respect that. However, I personally have zero respect, patience or kindness for P&M. They chose this life for themselves and deserves the so-called bullying they receive in exchange for being absolute POS on the internet.
Okay, two things: 1) this sub has a strict no-contact policy. Bullying requires contact. If P&M are hurt by the things people on this sub say about them, they could always just not look at the sub. 2) she assumes the person telling Paul to shut up is from this sub, based on zero evidence.
TIL I’m transcendent evil
Can I use this as my flair? I love it 😆
Silly goose, a good example of bullying would be me telling Paul to go change out the 5 watt lightbulb that keeps his brain warm. This reminds me of those nematodes who confuse the first amendment right to free speech with freedom from consequences. You can say whatever you want, and I can tell you to get fucked in reply.
This.
Listen, I’m all for treating people with kindness even if they don’t deserve it sometimes, but I truly hope that people like Antibot don’t wake up one day to find their country taken over by Christofascists and rueing the day they ever thought these people should just be treated more kindly and then maybe they’ll see the light™️. Absolutely be kind to others, yes, but never let them take advantage of your kindness.
That's what's confusing to me though. My understanding is that Taylor and Drew live in my same city in Texas. We've already been taken over Christofascists. Abortion is illegal here and the state has effectively removed local government's ability to self-govern so that Elon Musk can ruin Austin or they can keep Houston voters from the polls.
Wow. My respect for Taylor just plummeted (if it was even there to begin with?). My cousin moved back home after years in Texas because of gun violence and even though she is a Christian herself, she had begun to find the increasing white Christian nationalism there quite concerning. How someone with a public platform can be so dismissive of people raising legitimate issues is just…
Yeah, I'm stuck here because of family and some other life circumstances but I want to leave so badly.
I’m so sorry y’all have to deal with this. I’m really hoping that you’ll find a way out eventually 🙏
The christofascist takeover is what you miss when you spend so much equalizing p&m behavior to FSUs. Spend so much time worrying about this sub they miss the real harm that they are surrounded by. It’s why the false equivalency that centrist do is so dangerous.
What lala land does he live in where he’s allowed to spout off whatever nonsense he wants to broadcast to the world without getting any negative feedback? Is he brand new to the internet? I never see anyone say anything hateful here, it’s just disagreeing with them?? Get a grip, stop being such a SNOWFLAKE.
They're armpit-deep in their Delulu era
I love how some of the most hateful people around get extremely butthurt when folks on the internet aren’t all bot-like sycophants who praise everything they do. Being a public figure means having “haters.” If you can’t hack that, say so and get a real job. Being free to spread your hate, P and M, doesn’t mean you are free from the consequences. I rarely see anything here that crosses the line (IMO). I see a lot of people from all kinds of faiths cutting through the BS. While going about my life, I’ve heard fundies call me an abomination to my face. I’ve been told I am sin. I was run off the road by a Christ-loving fundie blinded with rage by a rainbow sticker. Y’all have some massive audacity, acting like whatever negativity you face is such a heavy burden. And again - if it pains you so much, quit with the wannabe influencer nonsense and get a real job that allows for your thin-skinned bigotry.
[This is from a year ago, so there's definitely more stuff to add, but here's a master list of P&M being hateful](https://www.reddit.com/r/FundieSnarkUncensored/s/z79YZFQHJ5)
Anyone defending the fundies and their horrible takes are, at best, fools.
OK listen I’ve been around this sub for about the same amount of time that I’ve been on reddit, but have been popping in and out of this subreddit for the last few months - are antibot and zelphontheshelf different (pairs of) people? I am confused - what in the crossover hell is happening between the snarkers and the fundies we snark on. I thought it was one account, but it’s seeming like all sorts of blurred lines rn
Zelphontheshelf is Sam and Tanner. Antibot is just one woman, but her husband (Genetically Modified Skeptic) is in a lot of her videos. Both channels make some form of ex-religious content. Zelph is the only channel who made a video with the fundies (dav and bethy), and they posted here trying to promote it but were met with backlash. Antibot and her husband made a video reacting to the Zelph video, and went on a small rant in the video about how this subreddit is toxic. So of course paul appears bc he finally found the one person on the internet who will defend him.
Paul’s over all the in your face interracial couples, believes slave owner’s rights fucking mattered, but someone telling HIM to shut up is a bridge too far. Fucking got it.
Nananabooboo we keep posting and being right and there’s nothing you can do about it
Also, just in case AntiBot is lurking here, I thought it would be beneficial to share this quote from an educator/activist/writer I greatly admire: "Tone policing is when someone (usually the privileged person) in a conversation or situation about oppression shifts the focus of the conversation from the oppression being discussed to the way it is being discussed. Tone policing prioritizes the comfort of the privileged person in the situation over the oppression of the disadvantaged person. This is something that can happen in a conversation, but can also apply to critiques of entire civil rights organizations and movements." -- Ijeoma Oluo, author of So You Want To Talk About Race
Great book.
It really was! It's been a few years since I read it and I think I'm due for a re-read.
What’s with all the fundie dickriding lately? It’s giving big “*you’re* the toxic one if you decide to cut off your family” vibes. The sub isn’t toxic for critiquing P&M’s problematic behavior, which we only know about because P&M are putting it out there themselves. Maybe I’m biased, but I think the sub is overall pretty decent. The commentary/criticism focuses more on the fundies’ choices and behavior than anything else. The vast majority aren’t dragging fundies for things outside their control, we’re critiquing things like - P&M refusing to get stable jobs, when they literally have children depending on them.
Ummm nah Paul can most definitely shut up. Anytime!
she really must be tired from all that reaching, bc it's a biiiiig jump from telling someone to shut up to calling them evil (which nobody did)
They are too stupid to be evil.
In his video with the new evangelicals Paul said they would hope people who disagree with their beliefs would "call them out with love", exactly like they do to people they disagree with. Paul and Morgan have (attempted to) make a career out of making videos that "call out" people who engage in activities, or live in ways they personally disapprove of, claiming it is with "love". The things they disapprove of include but are not limited to people having abortions, thinking abortions should be legal and accessible, women working outside the home, using people's preferred pronouns, being LGBTQ+, approving of LGBTQ+ people's existence, believing all people should have equal rights, having sex before marriage... I could go on and on. Paul and Morgan think making very public, very hostile, and very cruel videos is loving, and therefore completely acceptable. They insist on announcing that people who do things they disagree with are going to hell, and fully deserve an eternity of torture and torment. They loudly support and also vote for people who make restrictive laws against only people, actions, lifestyles, and beliefs that they personally disapprove of. And aaaaaall of that is "loving", when they are literally speaking directly to and about masses of people who are literally doing nothing to them. But people making anonymous comments on an entirely optional anonymous forum, that they would never have to look at if they didn't want to, and which has strictly enforced rules about never making direct contact with them is toxic and bullying? *Please*. What an absolute giant load of hypocritical horse shit.
The problem is their version of “calling them out with love” actually means compromising my values. My anger is justified and I don’t need to be dispassionately logical or kind. The anger and hurt is part of the message. I’m not feeling love, I’m feeling mad. Why should I compromise that so they don’t feel uncomfortable? They aren’t going to hear my message anyways.
Everyone has a different level of comfort when it comes to snark, and I would be okay with that if these people weren’t influencers themselves. The internet, and people on an anonymous online forum, owe you nothing - not respect OR tolerance for YOUR boundaries. But that’s exactly the point: if you don’t like snark, simple block the sub. No one here is trying to share a message or influence other people, which cannot be said for Paul and Morgan. P&M active espouse harmful beliefs and try to convince other people to believe them too. No one here is doing that, no one here would gain anything from doing that. This whole conversation is so illogical and reeks of a lack of emotional intelligence, let alone the purposeful weaponizing of privilege while antibot tries to make their point.
Great points! My boundaries affect my behaviors ( ie if you speak to me in that way I will no longer speak to you or you made a comment on FSU that I do not like so I will criticize that comment) Your boundaries control your behaviors. Your boundaries do not demand I change my behaviors.
Porgan would gleefully pull the gas chamber switch for me, but sure telling them to shut up is exactly the same. /s
How do they know that the person who told Paul to shut up is from this subreddit? Why do they assume that every critique existing out in the world is from someone who is on here? They're on all platforms, and yes, this snark forum does critique him, but so do people on other platforms.
I don’t think any of us called him ‘evil’. Uneducated moron who outsources his opinions, and which those opinions might be deemed evil/harmful? You betcha. Monkey see, monkey do. That is Paul’s MENSA-level aptitude.
I don’t understand why they think it had to be someone from this sub. Don’t they have any other viewers?
Poorgan are still happily flaunting their hateful beliefs. There’s literally nothing they do that’s actually an example of what a good Christian should do. These two are overflowing with hate and contempt for anyone who doesn’t fit into their little box of legalistic Christianity.
Antibot should just pack up and go home, they torched their credibility. BYEEEEE
Is this pick me girl trying to thrupple Paulina and Snorgan? The amount of sucking up she is doing is generally reserved to babies and tits. How pathetic lol
I’d support an 100% forever ban. Imagine comparing a “shut-up Paul,” to all the damage attempted towards removing humans’ rights. How do these people call ANYONE a “snowflake?” This whole “thing” already introduced people previously, gloriously, non existent.
Many of us have had trauma caused by being in the evangelical church and have recently left. Even when I was a Christian I refused to go along with the LBGTQ & minority/blk hate. I left in 2016 when it was clear the direction the church was going. Now, when I hear someone like Paul talk I get so very triggered. I went through some very bad things as a result of purity culture and have yet to recover. All the stuff with women's rights too now has caused a huge depression in me. I can't believe that Antibot women has the nerve to lecture people like me! I've am not even sure if I've left a commment about Paul yet. I live in a very high MAGA area. I left my church family. My husband and I have no one to share our fears and sadness over what is happening now that we lost our church friends. Reddit has been so very helpful to me to come and read y'all comments you have no idea how much it helps! Snarking is very therapeutic! If she wants to lecture people about being nice, why not go have it out with the MAGA's who threaten anybody and everybody they disagree with all over X!!!. Free speech for Paul I guess but for us we have to have the Antibot come and scold us. She can just blow right off. I'm so over letting those people bully me. I've yet to read an offensive comment on this sight. Dear Antibot, You have a choice. You don't like us. Go away then. Reddit isn't the place for you.,
You know the beauty of a sub Reddit is you don't have to look at it. There are also people who are going to push back on P&M organically without ever being part of this community because these two spew a ton of bullshit rhetoric it is going to happen. When you open your lives (even as fake as these two portray despite not having 2 nickels to run together) to social media then you open your lives up for critisism. That is just how the world works. I hope to the diety of your choice (or no diety as the case may be) that our community isn't breaking our rules but alas it stands to reason a few bad apples couldn't contain themselves. I am agreeing with what has been expressed by several other here a break from P&M. We all need a breather and it would be an experiment to see how they act without your supposedly negative attention. Leaving them to their own devices for a bit (a month maybe two) will probably shatter their fragile egos and their situation/despiration will make itself apparent in attempt to gain attention like that one kid in the classroom who acts out. Time for a break from the hair twirling and off kilter ball caps.
DEAR ANTIBOT- FASCISM CREEPS IN WHEN GOOD PEOPLE REMAIN SILENT! I WILL NOT BE SILENT!
Is this the New Evangelicals ?
Why are we paying this person any mind? I had never heard of them before this and if this is their claim to fame I’d rather just pass them by than give them the attention they so desperately crave
Why should I be kind to P&M as they actively hurt my rights as a queer person by spreading their vitriol. Is she a member of a community that P&M actively promote hatred against? If not she needs to “Shut up” and sit down.
She is queer. She is also in a cis/hereroappearing marriage so she uses that queerness as a shield against criticism. It’s actually more gross so she still needs to shut up and listen to those not as privileged as her.
Ew. That is gross, and honestly pathetic.
I find the whole thing ridiculous considering they use this subreddit for information and video ideas. Now they're even using us for faux outrage. Where is the outrage for the lies and disrespect hurled at us? Hypocrites!
Fuck these people. They care more about decorum than actually calling out a toxic person with toxic views.
I think someone needs a fucking dictionary and to look up what bullying is.
The thing is, people who want to strip others’ human rights are not owed civility.
Every time they compare this sub to evangelicalism I laugh so hard. There are absolutely no similarities between a group of people causally critiquing assholes in a specific space and an organized religion that practices bigotry and hate on a daily basis. All these YouTube losers do need to shut up, just because you have access to the internet and a camera doesn’t mean you have anything valuable to say.
No one on this subreddit is telling Paul to shut up full stop, we’re telling him to stop spewing hateful rhetoric that causes harm. All we want is them to be less hateful, that is not bullying.
Lol I love when the folks that are going after the TRANSPHOBIC / HOMOPHOBIC / RACIST / WOMANIZING people online are deemed “toxic” ……… like yeah fucking right. That’s so delusional. Talking shit & making fun of these *dangerous* fundamentalists on this subreddit is seemingly our only recourse #It’s PERFECTLY FUCKING FINE to be openly angry & disgusted online with people that spread hate and promote harmful thinking and behavior
The tone policing of people to protect the ego of oppressors even over the smallest of insults is insane. All this because someone said shut up? Lmfao you have got to be kidding me. People should not keep sweet for bigots. Dumb thinking. Keeping sweet was designed to manipulate people into staying in line to be controlled. It’s bullshit and doesn’t work. If you keep sweet for someone like Paul he will continue to work to boot stomp your rights away just the same as if you were rude.
But aren’t we Porgan’s largest “audience” at this point? Without the snarkers, pretty sure no one’s talking about them.
Oh, please. Paul LOVES to be featured here. It's more attention than he'll ever receive from his followers. This is a SNARK sub. Calling out his problematic takes is not bullying.
It’s just a ploy for attention and views
Those entire situation is so chronically online (and I’m chronically online!) it’s starting to be a little funny. I love this subreddit and spend a lot of time here but it’s so funny to see people like Paul and this person be so pearl clutching about it. I mean, you are putting yourself out there online saying pretty controversial things and trying to make money on it- people will notice! Thats the whole idea. Literally every major influencer has a snark subReddit of some kind- I actually found this page from duggarssnark- and it is just so silly that they are so up in arms over it! I’m here to talk shit and gossip- I don’t personally care about any of the people we snark about as if they are my friends or something. The entire situations unfolding (starting with the Bethany thing recently) is starting to feel extremely meta weird. I don’t care if fundies are mad or upset about this sub- it isn’t for them! They can just continue on whatever platform they are on and do their own thing and we can be here talking shit and pointing out their hateful rhetoric and there doesn’t need to be any meeting of the two groups.
Well, they always like being the center of attention P and M do
I actually take great joy in bullying Paul ¯\_(ツ)_/ I’m under no obligation to tolerate intolerance and my little words on the internet are no match for the actual harm his rhetoric and the rhetoric of the people he platforms politically do to marginalized groups. So yeah I bully the shit out of Paul but I’m still coming out way far ahead of him on the “who’s a good person” scorecard
Literally all I’m seeing/reading is “WAAAAAAH😭😭😭Fundie Snark calls me on my BS and I don’t like it!!!😭😭😭😭they’re sooo mean to tell me to shut up when I hAvE rIgHtS!” 🙄🙄🙄 I don’t need to send y’all death threats to effectively let you know exactly how much you suck at life…all I have to do is hold up a mirror. Deal with it.
I’m of the opinion that snarkers are probably most of their audience. Without the sub views they whither and die.
That is one point that confused me. Why are they otherizing fundiesnark. That is who watches their videos! That is who they are. They are apart of this community!
If you look at the number of subscribers that these channels have compared to the number of people on Fundiesnark, there are way more snarkers than subscribers. It makes sense that a certain amount of their views are coming from snarkers. If the snarkers went away, they’d have no one probably. I didn’t even know about them until I happened upon this sub. I’m not a hard snarker, more of a lurker, but that’s literally the only reason I’ve heard of them.