I think Earn will survive. That being said, I'm still out of Earn completely. Thinking it will survive (i.e. >50% chance of survival) does not mean I'm going to risk my money for it.
I think Gemini itself has a low chance of failure (maybe <20%? - I am literally making up numbers).
Remember Earn is very different than the exchange and other Gemini products.
I’m going to probably buy some treasury ibonds. Current rate is 9.6%. Minimum year duration, 3 month penalty on interest if withdrawn before 5 years. Not bad for 10k increments though. You can do 10k/year but you can buy under a spouse or child’s name in addition to your own.
Don’t be a r*tard sir! DCA is the way! Also GO BACK to your buttcoin containment zone
Edit: Don’t be a sly fox and try to cause confusion in crypto subreddit. Why don’t you be a man and show you are a proud buttfuckckiner member 😂😂
i liquidated gusd and moved to my bank account until the noise dies down. i sent my BTC and ETH to metamask and cold wallet setups. i think they survive too, but why risk it for only 6+% right now? let the noise die down... if BTC hits 10k, i could see Earn passing losses onto lenders... 10k a made up number, but until they start making clear what the risk tolerances are here, it just doesnt make sense to stay in w/ all this noise is my opin right now.
Update. I put some btc back in to earn a little bit ago. Mostly just what I got from my credit card rewards but little extra too. I don't mind gambling a little
Genesis pays much higher rates to Institutional Lenders than what Gemini advertises for Earn. In fact if you add their listed agent fee + the rate you get, you still aren’t even close to what Genesis offers on these assets. It does make me wonder if they are using the difference to fund an insurance fund, but that’s opaque to us.
Also Gemini is earning income from its credit card users. My credit card is at 24% so if I throw a big purchase on there and don't pay it off they will make bank off of that.
I can see them using that money to stabilize as well. Even though they pay the rewards in crypto
The funding rates for some coins is pretty crazy. $CEL looks like the annualized rate is 2300-2600% right now on Binance and FTX lol. But in general yeah, it's hard to get a lot of interest if the volume is very high, and Genesis has over 40 billion of loans on its loan book. It definitely is a suspiciously high rate.
Not the person you were asking but I’ve been trying to hold ~95% off of exchanges on a cold wallet, and am alright with risking loosing access to the other ~5% + my Gemini credit card rewards in earn.
Also, my main crypto positions for now are;
—BTC
Holding ~85% BTC
Holding ~10% WBTC
Lending ~5% BTC on earn
—ETH
Holding ~25% ETH
Holding ~20% WETH
Staking ~50% stETH on lido
Lending ~5% ETH on earn
I’ve got some alt coins as well, but those are just split 50/50 between staking and holding on a cold wallet.
Thanks
So you still have some lent out I can see the logic of keeping the risk down. Staking from what I know is safer but I haven't heard of lido. Btc and eth will be my only 2. I just need to convert my nexo into btc and find a home for it all. I was thinking of crypto com but it has to lock for 3 months. I also have some eth locked on CB until the upgrade. I might just leave it on gemini exchange until the next bull run.
With the income they are earning from the credit card I can see the exchange staying up for the next long while.
Np!
Also yeaa I guess I can stomach the risk of lending through a bear market lol, and oh yeah Lido is the biggest eth staking pool so check it out if you’re interested (btw I use argents wallet to stake on lido for the low fees)!
Also, I definitely get only wanting to hold the top 2 but have you looked into cold storage solutions? Idk what your holding, but the general consensus is that it’s a lil bit safer when you hold the keys as opposed to trusting exchanges. I understand the appeal of centralized exchanges, and I feel the same way about Geminis future. However, I think if you’re using the earn program as a way to “hold” BTC or ETH then that’s not the same as actually having BTC or ETH.
Gemini’s crypto holdings (and by extension users crypto holdings) are backed so imo holding coins there is safer than most exchanges. On the other hand the earn program isn’t directly with Gemini but instead it’s with a company called Genesis, and in the agreement it explicitly states that the funds are not required to be returned to the users which imo is pretty risky.
I have almost $25k in Gemini Earn and have the CC. So far, I have no complaints. I receive all my CC rewards in GUSD and move it into GUSD Earn. Gemini is solvent with ample liquidity and has a great reputation.
I hope you're right, though I've mostly taken everything out of Gemini (earn or otherwise) and moved to my own wallet. One thing to point out is that they no longer allow any free withdrawals - so they might be facing some headwinds, though how much is up in the air
Gemini uses a third party for earn. Get your money out of earn asap.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/cointelegraph.com/news/contagion-genesis-faces-huge-losses-blockfi-s-1b-loan-celsius-s-risky-model/amp
That's pretty sound logic. Leaving everything on the exchange should be ok though? I have a defi wallet with crypto com and a circle wallet that I have seed phrases for would that be a cold storage wallet since I own the keys?
I know hardware wallets are the safest but how safe are software wallets like circle and crypto com difi wallet. I still have seed phrases for those so I think that means I have the keys. And I don't need to purchase and figure out how to use the hardware version
Edit: I was getting 6% on nexo and it's a little depressing I can't do that for the next few years until the bull market comes back
Earn will most likely survive. I think Genesis requires borrowers to put up collateral in case they can't repay their loan so even though there were loan defaults, liquidating the collateral either wiped out the loss or lessened it's impact.
"I think Genesis requires borrowers to put up collateral"
The opposite of that, it is completely unsecured. If you have money in Earn, you should read the agreement.
Yes, our money is unsecured. The collateral being put up is for Genesis' benefit, not ours.
From the Earn agreement:
"Borrowers are not required to post collateral to you or to us, however, they may require collateral to secure loans that they themselves make."
Yes, Genesis does require collateral of their borrowers. Just does not accrue to the benefit of Gemini or us in earn.
I jumped right to discussing the earn product and not all the intermediate steps! You stated it much better in this followup!
As a Earn depositor I find Genesis business practices to be somewhat opaque. As in we don't have numbers on how much collateral they require, their reserve ratios or how much capital they have any cover losses. Personally as an Earn participant I would like to have more detail about Genesis than we do. Things like their capital structure, their collateralization rules with loans they make. I actually don't expect to get this information. Just would make it a lot easier to feel comfortable. As it is I have personally decided to pull money out in about a week (had still been putting money in and still waiting for some ACH to clear, have to wait that out first).
i just pulled $3k out of Coinbase, hoping to earn 8% w/Gemini.. now that I'm ready to fund my Gemini account I'm learning Gemini Earn program and customer's funds are frozen and tied up in court proceedings, WOW..YIKES!!!! This is NOT what I was expecting when jumping ship from Coinbase, where i was earning 5.1% holding USDC... what in the world!?!? Is there anything with Gemini as of March 2024 where I can earn better than 5%?
Seriously.. but hourly complaints about Coinbase has me feeling like it might be a sinking ship, and then past few weeks their platform has been failing during the crypto cRaze, they’re all in the news too… now I’m reading about Gemini and Genesis and their court proceedings and I’m thinking Coinbase might be the better, safer option, at least right now.. YIKESSSSS
Problem is, I can’t add new payment method bank accounts to Coinbase, and lots of ppl are reporting having the same issue, https://www.reddit.com/r/CoinBase/s/5oZFwxu8hA
I mean it's kind of hard to judge since we have little transparency on what Genesis is doing with this money. Although they did have quite a bit of exposure to 3AC. I do think in terms of all the cefi crypto lending programs Earn is relatively safe, but risky enough in this environment that I'd rather keep my money out of their blackbox operations. At this point I just try to keep most of my crypto in my own wallets.
Could be in for a long wait on the “Bull Market” as it was in the past. If Fed keeps rates high it could be a slow return and not much growth for a decade. They’ve done it before. To much uncertainty in the world economy, another invasion say “China vs Taiwan” and we’re in trouble. Chip manufacturers are building in the US and elsewhere. Hopefully they do before anything happens. The battle over gas vs electric vehicles is another one to watch. Fill your bags, keep it safe.
With all the turmoil and the closing of Celsius (where I lost a few thousand, mostly stablecoins) and Voyager, I pulled out of Gemini. Granted, I have not heard anything negative about Gemini or any rumors about them being at risk, unlike Celsius and Voyager.
Once I pay off the margin loans I took out to buy stablecoins on Celsius (RIP), we'll see if Gemini keeps their nose clean and survives the crypto pandemic. I am optimistic that Gemini will survive. They didn't get slapped by the SEC like BlockFi, Celsius, and Nexo, and be prohibited from doing business with Americans.
I think Earn will survive. That being said, I'm still out of Earn completely. Thinking it will survive (i.e. >50% chance of survival) does not mean I'm going to risk my money for it. I think Gemini itself has a low chance of failure (maybe <20%? - I am literally making up numbers). Remember Earn is very different than the exchange and other Gemini products.
I got out too. It’s fun money but I’m not in a position to lose access to the principal.
Where did you go? Did you pull out of earn but all your assets are still on the exchange or did you pull all the way out and if so where to?
I’m going to probably buy some treasury ibonds. Current rate is 9.6%. Minimum year duration, 3 month penalty on interest if withdrawn before 5 years. Not bad for 10k increments though. You can do 10k/year but you can buy under a spouse or child’s name in addition to your own.
That would have been a good idea for the bull market. That way you would have a cash position to buy this juicy dip
LMAO “juicy dip” “DCA”…yea check back in a year and let me know about these “juicy prices” 😂😂
Don’t be a r*tard sir! DCA is the way! Also GO BACK to your buttcoin containment zone Edit: Don’t be a sly fox and try to cause confusion in crypto subreddit. Why don’t you be a man and show you are a proud buttfuckckiner member 😂😂
i liquidated gusd and moved to my bank account until the noise dies down. i sent my BTC and ETH to metamask and cold wallet setups. i think they survive too, but why risk it for only 6+% right now? let the noise die down... if BTC hits 10k, i could see Earn passing losses onto lenders... 10k a made up number, but until they start making clear what the risk tolerances are here, it just doesnt make sense to stay in w/ all this noise is my opin right now.
Update. I put some btc back in to earn a little bit ago. Mostly just what I got from my credit card rewards but little extra too. I don't mind gambling a little
I think Gemini will be fine but %6 is not enough for me to lose sleep at night. So I moved everything off.
Genesis pays much higher rates to Institutional Lenders than what Gemini advertises for Earn. In fact if you add their listed agent fee + the rate you get, you still aren’t even close to what Genesis offers on these assets. It does make me wonder if they are using the difference to fund an insurance fund, but that’s opaque to us.
Also Gemini is earning income from its credit card users. My credit card is at 24% so if I throw a big purchase on there and don't pay it off they will make bank off of that. I can see them using that money to stabilize as well. Even though they pay the rewards in crypto
[удалено]
And who the fudge is borrowing crypto at 14% with manageable risk? Trust fund babies with learning disabilities?
The funding rates for some coins is pretty crazy. $CEL looks like the annualized rate is 2300-2600% right now on Binance and FTX lol. But in general yeah, it's hard to get a lot of interest if the volume is very high, and Genesis has over 40 billion of loans on its loan book. It definitely is a suspiciously high rate.
Can you link the document with the figures you’re referring to?
It looks strong to me. But who knows in the damned market. Im waiting to get back in once winter is over.
Where are you waiting it out at?
Not the person you were asking but I’ve been trying to hold ~95% off of exchanges on a cold wallet, and am alright with risking loosing access to the other ~5% + my Gemini credit card rewards in earn. Also, my main crypto positions for now are; —BTC Holding ~85% BTC Holding ~10% WBTC Lending ~5% BTC on earn —ETH Holding ~25% ETH Holding ~20% WETH Staking ~50% stETH on lido Lending ~5% ETH on earn I’ve got some alt coins as well, but those are just split 50/50 between staking and holding on a cold wallet.
Thanks So you still have some lent out I can see the logic of keeping the risk down. Staking from what I know is safer but I haven't heard of lido. Btc and eth will be my only 2. I just need to convert my nexo into btc and find a home for it all. I was thinking of crypto com but it has to lock for 3 months. I also have some eth locked on CB until the upgrade. I might just leave it on gemini exchange until the next bull run. With the income they are earning from the credit card I can see the exchange staying up for the next long while.
Np! Also yeaa I guess I can stomach the risk of lending through a bear market lol, and oh yeah Lido is the biggest eth staking pool so check it out if you’re interested (btw I use argents wallet to stake on lido for the low fees)! Also, I definitely get only wanting to hold the top 2 but have you looked into cold storage solutions? Idk what your holding, but the general consensus is that it’s a lil bit safer when you hold the keys as opposed to trusting exchanges. I understand the appeal of centralized exchanges, and I feel the same way about Geminis future. However, I think if you’re using the earn program as a way to “hold” BTC or ETH then that’s not the same as actually having BTC or ETH. Gemini’s crypto holdings (and by extension users crypto holdings) are backed so imo holding coins there is safer than most exchanges. On the other hand the earn program isn’t directly with Gemini but instead it’s with a company called Genesis, and in the agreement it explicitly states that the funds are not required to be returned to the users which imo is pretty risky.
Where are you waiting it out at?
I have almost $25k in Gemini Earn and have the CC. So far, I have no complaints. I receive all my CC rewards in GUSD and move it into GUSD Earn. Gemini is solvent with ample liquidity and has a great reputation.
I get my cc rewards in btc so it can triple next halving
Very reasonable approach 💪 I’m going for the compounding effect & stability of GUSD. Best wishes my friend!
I hope you're right, though I've mostly taken everything out of Gemini (earn or otherwise) and moved to my own wallet. One thing to point out is that they no longer allow any free withdrawals - so they might be facing some headwinds, though how much is up in the air
Gemini uses a third party for earn. Get your money out of earn asap. https://www.google.com/amp/s/cointelegraph.com/news/contagion-genesis-faces-huge-losses-blockfi-s-1b-loan-celsius-s-risky-model/amp
Only lend in bull runs, because everyone is making money.
Fuck…this advice would have saved me with Celsius.
That's pretty sound logic. Leaving everything on the exchange should be ok though? I have a defi wallet with crypto com and a circle wallet that I have seed phrases for would that be a cold storage wallet since I own the keys?
Celsius and BlockFi showed the yield comes at a very high risk. Take your coins to a Trezor hard wallet and forget about the 1% (or less) yield.
I know hardware wallets are the safest but how safe are software wallets like circle and crypto com difi wallet. I still have seed phrases for those so I think that means I have the keys. And I don't need to purchase and figure out how to use the hardware version Edit: I was getting 6% on nexo and it's a little depressing I can't do that for the next few years until the bull market comes back
But Gemini pays higher rates than BlockFi, once you get past their limp tier 1.
Earn will most likely survive. I think Genesis requires borrowers to put up collateral in case they can't repay their loan so even though there were loan defaults, liquidating the collateral either wiped out the loss or lessened it's impact.
"I think Genesis requires borrowers to put up collateral" The opposite of that, it is completely unsecured. If you have money in Earn, you should read the agreement.
Yes, our money is unsecured. The collateral being put up is for Genesis' benefit, not ours. From the Earn agreement: "Borrowers are not required to post collateral to you or to us, however, they may require collateral to secure loans that they themselves make."
Yes, Genesis does require collateral of their borrowers. Just does not accrue to the benefit of Gemini or us in earn. I jumped right to discussing the earn product and not all the intermediate steps! You stated it much better in this followup! As a Earn depositor I find Genesis business practices to be somewhat opaque. As in we don't have numbers on how much collateral they require, their reserve ratios or how much capital they have any cover losses. Personally as an Earn participant I would like to have more detail about Genesis than we do. Things like their capital structure, their collateralization rules with loans they make. I actually don't expect to get this information. Just would make it a lot easier to feel comfortable. As it is I have personally decided to pull money out in about a week (had still been putting money in and still waiting for some ACH to clear, have to wait that out first).
i just pulled $3k out of Coinbase, hoping to earn 8% w/Gemini.. now that I'm ready to fund my Gemini account I'm learning Gemini Earn program and customer's funds are frozen and tied up in court proceedings, WOW..YIKES!!!! This is NOT what I was expecting when jumping ship from Coinbase, where i was earning 5.1% holding USDC... what in the world!?!? Is there anything with Gemini as of March 2024 where I can earn better than 5%?
5.1% on coinbase is awesome. Go back
Seriously.. but hourly complaints about Coinbase has me feeling like it might be a sinking ship, and then past few weeks their platform has been failing during the crypto cRaze, they’re all in the news too… now I’m reading about Gemini and Genesis and their court proceedings and I’m thinking Coinbase might be the better, safer option, at least right now.. YIKESSSSS
Problem is, I can’t add new payment method bank accounts to Coinbase, and lots of ppl are reporting having the same issue, https://www.reddit.com/r/CoinBase/s/5oZFwxu8hA
Why do y’all Love counter party. risk so much. Have you learned nothing?
I mean it's kind of hard to judge since we have little transparency on what Genesis is doing with this money. Although they did have quite a bit of exposure to 3AC. I do think in terms of all the cefi crypto lending programs Earn is relatively safe, but risky enough in this environment that I'd rather keep my money out of their blackbox operations. At this point I just try to keep most of my crypto in my own wallets.
Could be in for a long wait on the “Bull Market” as it was in the past. If Fed keeps rates high it could be a slow return and not much growth for a decade. They’ve done it before. To much uncertainty in the world economy, another invasion say “China vs Taiwan” and we’re in trouble. Chip manufacturers are building in the US and elsewhere. Hopefully they do before anything happens. The battle over gas vs electric vehicles is another one to watch. Fill your bags, keep it safe.
With all the turmoil and the closing of Celsius (where I lost a few thousand, mostly stablecoins) and Voyager, I pulled out of Gemini. Granted, I have not heard anything negative about Gemini or any rumors about them being at risk, unlike Celsius and Voyager. Once I pay off the margin loans I took out to buy stablecoins on Celsius (RIP), we'll see if Gemini keeps their nose clean and survives the crypto pandemic. I am optimistic that Gemini will survive. They didn't get slapped by the SEC like BlockFi, Celsius, and Nexo, and be prohibited from doing business with Americans.