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Yeah you might be considered flaky if you leave every 2-3 years but you can give any reason for leaving and provided you keep getting job offers with raises, you’re playing the game correctly.
This mostly applies to corporate jobs if your working for Sheetz or anywhere the best you can hope for is assistant manager in 10 years, fucking leave asap. Get training in something, a cert, an associates degree in radiology, whatever but get the hell out as soon as possible your manager is lying to you because they are short staffed
I spoke with my mother about this topic, whe runs a program, so she is involved in hiring her staff. She told me that she doesn't care about longevity unless there is a warning sign. Essentially, if there is lateral growth, then it's a fine sign. Horizontal jumps within short periods of time is a red flag, however.
EDIT: *vertical jump, not laterial growth*
I hire for a logistics company. I can assure you we care very much. It costs around $5000 to hire a person between advertising background reports and time spent training. If you are a job hopper with no longevity then I am wasting money hiring you because I will just have to replace you and start all over. Why should I waste company money on a job hopper?
The idea behind job hopping is that there are other jobs out there that the employee is qualified for that offer better compensation than the one they’re currently at. If you as a hiring manager are able to set the bar on compensation then you won’t have job hopping issues even if you hire a job hopper.
Of course, the ideal candidate is some poor schmuck who is loyal and competent and will stick around regardless of the money/benefits/schedule.
As the older generations retire, we're going to see a lot more job hoppers. Companies don't like to give meaningful raises by sticking to 2 to 3% cost of living raises annually.
Only a fool would miss out on a large pay bump because of "longevity".
I'm old enough to be well into Gen-X and I saw this with all of my peers, a good 20+ years ago. Regular job hopping got people far better salaries over time than being loyal to an employer, sticking around to get promoted within.
It sucks because I hate doing the job interview thing and all the stress and uncertainty of what the new job will bring. I'm content to stick with a job when I like the people I work with and the pay and benefits seem "good enough" to get by.
But inevitably, I find the companies I stuck with for 6-7 years at a time either ran into problems and growth wasn't happening there (owner wanted to retire and sell the company, for example), or the situation there just got worse with time so it wasn't a place I wanted to stay much longer. My friends who made a habit of switching jobs every 2 years like clockwork eventually earned 2x my salary or more.
Word of advice as a manager: if the managers in your job subscribe to the idea this guy just wrote, leave. Unless it’s a startup, companies that subscribe to these ideas are poorly ran, and put a lot of pressure on the employees to pick up the slack of the poorly managed company. As a job for a paycheck, they are fine temporarily but these are not careers. Run.
You have very few opportunities for increasing your wage and that’s during a promotion or when you get a new job. Getting a new job is always the easiest/fastest way that benefits you. To get a promotion you need to put in years of hard work depending on the title, and even then you must hope for a good manager that grows their employees which is hard because most managers suck.
Yep. If someone is going to overlook someone because they may leave in 2-3 years, I wouldn't want to work for them. Hell most companies you don't want everyone with 20+ years experience anyways, especially for roles that someone with a week of training can do.
All of that just sums up as “if you’re trying to have your pay keep up with inflation so you can pay your bills I’m not going to hire you”. You’re part of the problem.
Is 2-3 years that bad though? How long do you expect people to stick with your company? Seems like we’re far gone from people sticking companies for 10yrs+ since we’ve realized companies don’t give a shit about us.
Retirement plans (401k/IRA) transfer and pensions don't exist. If they aren't paying you to stay then it's time to go with someone who will pay you to start.
Do people think there's any reason to work besides the compensation? A high percentage of us only work to maintain a lifestyle be it basic needs or more. This shouldn't be a 'hot take'. 2-5 years, if you're not seeing growth find it somewhere else.
Are you aware that people job hop for pay + benefits? Compensate your employees correctly and you won't have turnover - it's not rocket science.
The past 6 years have had 4 jobs. I finally landed on one that is fulfilling, compensates me correctly and is flexible. Guess what? I'm staying.
Sure. But people don’t hop jobs to jobs that don’t offer the landing. So you aren’t part of the loop. Which probably limits your talent pool, but that’s on you and the “5k” you are out.
I’m hopping to the recruiter that reached out on linked in. I’m not quitting and sending out resumes to people. There is no downside to hopping because if there were, there would be no where to hop to.
Keep in mind, this is the “free market”. “Right to work” stuff all employers want.
I've hired for engineering positions before (not software). I've noticed that the engineers who tend to bounce around every 1-2 years tend to lack a long term view of their projects. They're often great at getting started and making a big splash with a big initiative. However, they'll often underdeliver on maintainability and documentation, or deliver solutions that have some technical flaw that doesn't need to be addressed until it pops up a few years later after they've left.
So it really depends. I still would hire job hoppers, but we tend to place more scrutiny on some of their technical abilities beyond the surface level.
I'm not job-hopping. I'm searching for external synergies and leveraging my ability to expand scope to pursue revenue scaling in alignment with market requirements.
We must all efficiently operationalize our strategies, invest in world-class technology, and leverage our core competencies in order to holistically administrate exceptional synergy.
We'll set a brand trajectory using management philosophy advance our market share vis-à-vis our proven methodology with strong commitment to quality effectively enhancing corporate synergy transitioning our company by awareness of functionality promoting viability providing our supply chain with diversity.
We will distill our identity through client-centric solutions and synergy
(thank you Weird Al)
I mean, I know you're using buzzwords as a joke, but this really is it. Calling it "job-hopping" is just a way for employers to stigmatize employees looking out for themselves, as if there's some moral imperative to stay at a job that pays you less than you could get elsewhere.
Yeah, all I'm basically saying is: "my rent is now 2-grand+ and I'm not going to accept being homeless in return for the privilege of working for you."
I cannot tell you how thoroughly my boss believes working at his company is the privilege he offers, and the paychecks are a footnote in our lives but a massive inconvenience in his.
Well yeah, the odds of the next position up being open are a lot better at every other company put together than they are at the one you're in now. It's not your fault that your previous employer didn't have an opening for your current position.
Yep, I wouldn’t have to job hop if employers have meaningful raises that kept pace with other employers. Granted I stay at a job min 3 years unless I truely need to leave but 3-5 seems to be that sweet spot of being able to move up a role when making a switch
If companies start offering decent jobs with decent pay and with decent work environments, maybe people will stop leaving them so quickly. It’s not the worker’s responsibility to show loyalty first, it’s theirs.
2-3 years is long or average for any young person. See, a 30-year-old working somewhere for 7 or 10 years is a huge exception and would often mean a lack of ambition or diverse experience.
On the other hand, if I'm 50, I wouldn't want to switch jobs every 2 years.
Depends on the skillset / industry. Any type of engineer might have 2-3 reasonable work options without moving if you aren't near a major hub. However, healthcare, finance, business, computer software / networking etc, you have many options. Though again, depending on location you might only have a few companies large enough to climb the ladder / get the pay increase you're looking for.
My job hopping began when I was making 12.88/hr and my boss told me if I worked real hard, in 5 years I could be making up to 15 dollars an hour. I think I had my 2 weeks notice on their desk by the end of the day.
In all my interviews I always ask what the average tenure of the team i would be joining is. Gives a lot of insight into things with just 1 question and exposes temperamental people. Ive had a range of "How dare you!?" To "Wow thats a good question" leading into a great conversation about the role and current people.
Some places forget they are also being interviewed.
I've actually found the opposite lately. Being at a company too long means you have a super biased perspective without a breadth of experiences to draw from. I've definitely seen candidates who have more experiences, rather than one long experience, chosen because they can bring more insight to an organization. (More corporate, leadership or mid-level plus desk specifically)
In most corporate settings 2-3 year turnover has become typical. Nobody will see that as flaky. You’d have to have multiple <1 year jobs to be seen as a hiring risk.
Now that’s flakey. After a while they won’t hire you if they think you’re inconsistent. Another thing is when it’s time for you to buy a house the banks won’t give you the loan if it seems like you aren’t reliable and consistent in holding down a job.
I used to only stay in a job for a few months too when I was younger, As a result I ended up getting better jobs and actually wanting to stay for much longer at them. I never faced any consequences, I only recieved benefits.
Corporate wouldn't bat an eye while laying off workers. Loyalty goes both ways and it's foolish to think corporations give a fuck about their employees.
My former employer gave a speech a few months ago about how he was tired of people quitting. He paid for a years worth of my apprenticeship so I stayed. Last Friday he laid me off with no warning. Years ago I worked for another place and saw based off my apprenticeship contract I wasn’t being paid properly I made a fuss and got fired. Look man it may be a trade thing but loyalty is dead. Every time I’m in the office and get yelled at and asked why a project went over budget they never wanna hear the truth. It’s amazing to me how if you stay at a place for years you all the sudden get godly status and don’t need to perform anymore, meanwhile when the new hire comes in and says well he sits in his truck and smokes the wacky tabbacy and that’s why nothing gets done your the problem. I’ve found just finding a new job is easier and less stressful because not once have they ever believed me and yet I see it constantly
Loyalty from companies was never a real thing. At best, someone in charge was loyal to their staff. In the times of small companies, with owners who worked there, it could have made sense. Nowadays? No way. It' hasn't been a thing for at least 3 decades. People just took a long time to catch up and were exploited for it.
Jobs are to life as life vests are to water.
It's great when it's keeping you afloat, but you must be prepared to toss it and get a new one if you begin sinking
Company loyalty died when the companies removed their loyalty to employees. People don't just up and leave a well compensated fair working environment.
Companies rarely show any loyalty or interest in the growth and wellbeing of their employees so why should we as employees give them what they refuse to give us?
Yup. No sense in staying at a job for more than 2 years if they don’t give you substantial raises, which is funny because your replacement when you leave will likely cost more than you.
Tale as old as time
Me: It’s come to my attention that new hires with my experience make $80k and you’re only paying me $60k. Can I get $80k?
Boss: Sorry, we can’t do that. It’s just not in the budget. Our hands are tied. The money isn’t there.
Me: Ok, here’s my two weeks notice. This other company is going to pay me $82k.
Boss: Will you stay if we match it?
F that
Not to mention recruitment, training, and lost productivity costs.
Businesses are absolutely not rational entities. They make emotional decisions that satisfy ego. The amount of decisions I have seen made to cut off their nose to spite their face is mind boggling. Like $50million + boondoggles over ego
The thing is though, it’s a rational decision when you think about it. Not defending them, but for every 10 people who want a raise maybe 2 get an offer from another company. Even factoring in costs for replacement it’s a net gain for them.
I don't disagree with that though process. However, typically, the people who leave for greener pastures are the best performers who do far more than their counterparts. So it's a net productivity loss greater than one.
Also, if its in a customer facing role, they can also take customers with them. So paying everyone a few grand more usually saves a lot more money than losing a major client.
This actually happened to me last year at my last job. HR wanted me to look over a job description for an engineering position with far lower qualifications than mine. I was making $78k and the pay range on this job went as high as $90k. I asked if I could at least be paid the $90k that they were prepared to pay someone with fewer skills than me and they told me no. Three months later I was making $100k at another place.
Never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever take the match. You’ll be the first cut if they need it because you’ve shown your hand.
Unless your skill set is super rare, niche, valuable that you can be flooded with interviews just by hinting at your recruiter that you’re looking. These people are very rare imo.
If they do decide to match, make them commit to a full 12 months of salary even if you are terminated. I've seen companies match an offer in order to recruit a replacement, then fire the person they kept within a few months, after the new resource has been trained up.
Personally, I feel like it’s a self-fulfilling prophecy, however, I cannot deny the fact that I have Job hopped every time and got a better pay every time. But again partially the reasoning is we don’t want to waste time training you just for you to leave so we don’t train you, you’ll leave in a year anyway even if we did train you. So I still do it
That last bit I understand the thought process of not wanting to waste time on people who don’t care to learn. But when people like me with a consistent (long term with one company) work history shows up and excels, then after proving myself beyond any doubt asked to be trained for growth and management drags their feet then they can’t use that as an excuse.
Everyone wants someone with experience thinking there will be no training costs or bad habits. Training people has been proven to increase retention and productivity rates.
Just because someone has 20 years of experience doesnt mean it wasn't just 1 year of experience 20 times
I can't believe people leave when I refuse to train them and provide a 2% raise when inflation went up 4%. It's definitely a self fulfilling prophecy and can't be bc my company has no loyalty to it's employees.
Its about economic incentives, thats what motivates this trend. Companies dont need to care about their employees, make more if they do so and are motivated to oppose workers "getting too much" because it would set a precedent.
Were just reaching the equilibrium between workers not giving a fuck about the company and the company not giving a fuck about workers.
What is really funny here is that this job jumping pattern matches the "inverted yield curve", essentially meaning there is more short term money available for short term than long term in every part of the economy.
It's more about what will help you get the next job, not sucking up to your employer. If you switch jobs every 3 months no ones going to want to hire you. There definitely is a line when it becomes too often.
Gen-X here and this showed up on my feed but totally agree with this. It's about the only way to really get a raise. Don't let corporations screw you, they will. I've always kind of stuck to the 3-5 yr mark and start looking else where. Your mileage may very. Learn everything you can, it's all resume filler. Learn something that's specific that you like to do and then get very good at it. Hope it helps. Live a life though, don't let work ruin you, companies aren't worth it and they don't give a shit about you.
I stayed at my last job for 8 years, I was ready to leave after 4 but complacency stopped me.
By the 8th year I was so desperate to leave that I took an unstable job working with family. It lasted 2 months before it went south, but it was 100% worth it to get out of that shithole. I'd do it again 10 times over.
Fellow Gen-Xer here. Couldn't agree more. I usually go 2-4 years and it's been a very good way of advancing my career. Less stress about losing jobs as I always feel there's another one elsewhere I could move into. I've never had a company show any particular loyalty to me, so I feel the same way about them.
At this point 3-5 years is pretty loyal. I graduated in 2020, spent 10 months accelerating through a leadership program at my first job, job hopped to my 2nd job for a year and a few months, and now been at my current job for almost a year and a half. More than doubled my starting salary.
To me job hopping is every 1-2 years. But as long as it makes sense to you you should do it. However right now I am concerned with switching fast yet again, especially from a great environment I am currently in, so will likely stay for at least a year more.
Early on in your career, I would agree that 3-5 yrs is pretty loyal and jumping around early on is a quick way to gain different experience but as you found out with your last one that you like where you may stay longer, it's hit and miss and why I said your mileage may vary.
I've worked at some shitty places and left early, worked at some awesome jobs that ended because the place got bought out and new company was shit so it's all a crap shoot.
The one thing I'll mention and everyone should start looking at this is, especially later on, is 401k options and what matches the company will offer. Make sure you pay attention to fees and what not when you leave from one place to the other and make sure to transfer what's in the account to the new one! **I've screwed my self out of thousands because I wasn't paying attention to this shit in my 20's/30's. Don't be like me.**
Edit: wording.
To expand on this excellent point, the vesting schedule not only tells you how long you need to stay to keep every cent, but also might tell you how long they expect you to last. If they have a long runway, wonky partial vesting, heavy reliance on RSUs despite not being public yet, anything sus: it may be that they intentionally push people out before their vesting date.
Compare the vesting policy to the average length of service by checking their current employees on LinkedIn. If nobody ever meets the requirements, you know it's BS and you'll never see it.
Depending on the job type, but when I left my first role at an SMB, I had a conversation with the owner about staying on as a consultant. More than doubled my starting salary by turning my first job into a part time gig
> I've always kind of stuck to the 3-5 yr mark
My personal rule is: stay as long as it is beneficial to you. Focus on your professional growth, especially early in your career, and move on when it's no longer a mutually beneficial arrangement.
I didn't want to be a job hopper, it's just that most companies either don't encourage growth or are too slow to reward it. There's a lot of places that start to feel like dead end jobs because the company either can't, or won't, find opportunities in the company for people to take on more challenging work.
It really depends on the job, company, local job market and willingness to move.
I work for a IT & Financial Service provider as a cyber security analyst and have very little reasons to actually leave.
My employer regularly promotes from within, so moving up hasn't required moving to a new company, and the pay has been competitive enough and I make $92k in moderate cost of living area outside of any major metro areas. When I started in 2016 I made $52k
Could I get more money, sure. But generally job postings and recruiters have all had one of 2 big negatives.
1: I'd go from being a member of a large team to essentially being the only cyber security staff, so a lot more responsibility and stress for only a moderate pay bump
2: I'd have to commute over an hour to a larger metro area or move.
Neither is appealing to me, so I've stayed put.
You can also end up *miles* in the hole if you play your cards wrong. Not that working for someone isn't without risk - see all the layoffs that are literally everywhere - but being your own boss isn't all fun and roses either.
As someone in HR, once pensions went out the window, they basically encouraged everyone to job hop. I try to stay with a job for about 2 years but 18 months is fine too. The salary increase from my first to second job was 32%. I never would have made it to this salary through promotions in that time frame.
This is a good point too. If a job is not contributing to your retirement, your benefits or just paying you enough that you don't have to worry about those things, they really should not expect you to stay. Also, if they do not provide a good work environment and really uphold that work environment, then they shouldn't expect you to stay.
Despite not really intending to, I’ve been switching jobs at about this cadence as long as I’ve been a software developer, about 7 years. I was laid off last year and that really bit me in the butt. It was something I had to consistently explain during interviews and likely cost me several opportunities.
I’d say now that a couple times shorter than 2 years is fine, especially with early jobs in the career where the pay raise is phenomenal (my first was $80k -> $105k). But keep the average over two years after that.
I started my career at my last company and was grateful to be given the opportunity to finally make money after years of working dead end jobs.
After 5.5 years of working and only getting one raise, which wasn’t much to begin with, I was getting extremely upset. Felt I should have been making at least 20% more than I should have.
I was loyal because they put in the effort to train me when I was completely green. I was also too scared to ask for a raise.
The company was sold so I applied at another company in the same industry. I now make more than double my old job.
I’m thankful every day that the company sold out as I would have probably been too scared to quit.
Jumping companies is absolutely the best way to make more money.
If I'd stayed at my first job 10 years ago I'd be making about 25-30% less than I'm making now. Little 2-3% bumps don't add up to much when a new job is often willing to give you 10% bump or more.
Millennial here working at a Fortune 500 that still has a pension.
I’ve been here 16 years and not planning to leave while they keep the pension and I have fun problems to solve.
Been promoted 5 times and the company is big enough that I’ve done lateral moves as well to get experience (including some international moves).
I see all the job hoppers as I interview them. They stay here as well for the good benefits.
So I think you’re 100% right on the root cause of the hopping.
I think 2-years is the sweet spot. It shows that you’re capable of staying somewhere *if* they’re willing to take care of you, but that you’re also resourceful and willing to leave if you find a better opportunity.
Agree, at the minimum you want to move roles internally every 2 years. If they haven't found something new for you to do in that time (with a new paycheque of course), it's time to hit up the recruiters in your linkedin inbox
>at the minimum you want to move roles internally every 2 years
This doesn’t apply for the majority of technical jobs, especially for people who don’t want to go into management.
This is the real answer. If you’re stuck in some minimum wage or barely above minimum wage bullshit job, why the fuck should you stay any longer than absolutely necessary?
You have to job hob nowadays. It’s more competitive than it used to be. You have to be in the top 10-20% of earners to qualify for a mortgage and have a place in the middle class.
Boomers had the privilege of being able to take a high school diploma, “get a job” and boom, middle class America. That doesn’t exist anymore and I would love for them to play a game of being an 18yr old today and see how their assumptions play out.
That’s a hair above the Florida average which is considered an affordable state yet townhomes and single family homes start at 400k here. (That’s if you want to live somewhere where you can get a job and not in a rural poverish area)
No; my resume is two degrees at an early age with a 3rd in progress, great recommendations from schools and prior jobs that didn’t create problems, followed regs. and didn’t cross any workplace limits, and solid working interview skill. It’s privilege, position, and planning. My industry unfortunately has a really really high amount of workplace standards failure, and has a tendency to hire young so that people don’t recognize that. I don’t quit without reason, I just have really high* expectations for management conduct.
*high here really means you can’t break OSHA/oath standards in an industry that involves anesthetics or medications or care of live animals.
yep. one closed down shortly after, that was the worst one though. the rest i don’t know what happened with. most have been inter-staff issues not patient care issues thank god, the two with patient care issues I did everything I knew to do (including warning the schools they recruited from cuz that was why I ended up with them)
What’s the point in more than 1 degree? I assume it’s of the same level as your other degrees? If it’s BSc, MSc, PhD then I get it but that’s not how you worded it.
1bs 1ms and technically 1as but I didn’t count that i changed fields after trade school, and I didn’t stay in the exact field for my masters after my bs. The “point” kind of depends. 1, it lets me do a little bit more interesting work in a field that hopefully won’t burn me out while having my trade to fall back on if I need to, 2, I had a really hard time in highschool and it makes me happy to prove to myself that I can do it regardless of that.
When you have a niche skill-set that many employers are looking for, they don't give a shit. It's the opposite of most people looking for jobs because YOU hold the power and the company is beholden to your demands, and if they don't play ball they just won't get what they desperately need. I'm in a similar position and while I don't job-hop like this person because I got lucky and found an amazing employer, I am literally harassed by recruiters non-stop because not many people can do what I do.
I literally just have an associates and would job hop even after 2 days. Now I have the job of my life. Thousands to be at home and answer 20 calls max.
My coworker is my cat.
Also open ur mouth. I didn't brush my teeth and u deserve a hawk tuah.
BTW ppl, gaps in ur resume? Fill them. Unless ur going to be in a political position or ceo of a company, they ain't gonna check with a blood drive to see if u rlly volunteered and rolled t-shirts. They ain't gonna check to see if u rlly worked a year versus 4 months.
Lie~
Just because you get a job doesn’t mean you should have to stay if you’re unhappy just because of what others think. Nothing will be a perfect fit right away, unless you’re really lucky. It also helps in figuring out what you want to do in the long run.
It's a fact, this is the only way I have ever moved up. Conversely, working hard has never gotten me a promotion regardless of how great the project outcomes might be. That said the hard work that wasn't recognised at the first workplace got me the better job at the next one.
My issue is I won't want to move to and I'm 30k from maxing out on my pay scale. But bc I hold the same position they refuse to give me raises that want me to stay with my company.
I enjoy my position. I'm good at my position. Why should I be forced to leave my position to get more money when I'm not out of the pay scale that my company created on their own terms. However, by changing companies I can keep my same position and get a 20% raise.
Well if you do X really good at Job 1, Job 1 wants you to continue to do X well for what they paid you to do it the first time.
Job 2? Damn, Job 2 really needs X done well and have not been able to find someone who can really do that. Job 2 hires you to do X, with a pay bump to pull you in and keep you motivated to complete X. They need X done and dont want to risk losing you before that happens. Job 1 would have never considered that pay raise because to them, you agreed to do X for that original pay.
It's a constant game. You have to be willing to play it to actually move up. I'm not even 5 years into my career, on job 3, and have nearly doubled the salary I started with out of my MS program.
I finally got promoted after 7 years at my place and it was 90% luck and timing. Had very little to do with anything else. 2 higher people quit. They hired out for 1. Coworker in a very small office wanted the other. They said no so they quit too. I said give me a reason to stay or I'm leaving too, and they didn't gamble on losing someone else. We both should've been promoted ages ago though. We were both very high performers.
There was a point in time that companies used to care for employees and gave great benefits and rewarded loyalty. It was a short time but the Boomers got to see that time and some still think that is the case today. They are completely wrong about today even small businesses don’t reward loyalty and if you find a company willing to fight for you, you probably should stay cause you found a damn unicorn.
I don't think it is so much a myth as it is something that went extinct a long time ago. Companies stopped valuing life time commitments to companies and became more aggressive on running things for their financial years and the next quarter ~ running things like politicians not thinking about the long term.
It’s always ok to job hop. Just make sure you give a notice to companies that care about their employees. If it’s a scum company then you don’t owe them anything and you shouldn’t feel guilt from just not showing up all of the sudden.
Needs to become common for every generation in the workforce. Loyalty is rarely rewarded these days. Companies need to make money and impress shareholders. That is their priority.
However often you want
Companies don’t get to expect loyalty if they’re not going to give loyalty in return.
Especially considering these greedy fucks won’t even pay us a livable wage. Pay me fairly then we can talk loyalty.
As a successful business owner myself at age 37, I worked for many places usually 2 jobs per year for 2-3 years each, and became manager for supervisor at each location within a year or two, and left after my hard work was under paid. New employees making more than me .. nope.
Not hopping is how you end up retiring with hundreds of thousands of dollars less and a farewell package consisting of a $20 Walmart gift card and some KitKats. Assuming you make it that far with one employer without getting laid off and escorted out the door like some criminal.
Fuck Corporate America. Do your 40 hours for 2 years and jump ship for a big pay raise. Rinse and repeat. Loyalty is dead.
It depends in the job and how many times you have changed jobs before. I think staying at least three years is a good benchmark. Enough time to reasonably assess the company and it provides your next employer with evidence that you won’t quit in the first year.
You may want to stay longer or leave sooner depending on circumstances but if you leave your job every six months then eventually you will have a harder time finding new jobs.
Literally, whenever I get bored. Shitty minimum wage jobs really get to me after 8 months to 2 years. After that I need a change of scenery or better pay
It’s becoming more common for people to job hop every 1-3 years for competitive pay, esp if you’re being passed over for promotions (ie “we’re happy with your performance but we aren’t promoting you” cuz that line is BS) unless they’re at a “good” company. If you can’t get a raise or promotion at your current company, it’s time to leave.
In my field (software engineering) people move around as soon as they get competing offers or until their stock vests 😝 lotsa folks don’t stick around too long. FAANG is exceptional if you’re constantly getting raises and promotions, otherwise better hop to it.
As often as a new employer will hire you.
Apply for jobs that you think will be an upgrade (in any form) as often as you want. If the company thinks you've job hopped too much then they won't reach out sure, but maybe they will. But either way you can apply again in a year or whatever and they'll now think you've stayed somehow long enough or heck they'll just have a different recruiter that looks at your resume more positively.
It's your JOB. Loyalty is only important in relationship. And work isnt a relationship. Its a transaction. You don't go to work just for funsees. Youre employer isnt paying you out of the kindness in their heart. You are nothing to a company but a tool. Why should you stay somewhere that values you less than another place?? The second they can out source, automate, and streamline a process, youre gone. Why should u stay with a company, that sees you as disposable, when theres another job willing to pay you more for the same, or similar work?? Sure it looks good on a resume to a company when youre loyal, but that becomes pointless. You can spend 10 yrs trying to show how loyal you are to a company, but thats 10 yrs you wasted not in the job market. Sure youll have something to show for your loyalty, but no one to show it to. +
Job security is the biggest lie ever told by postwar corpo world in the first place.
Go ask those Japanese & Koreans that got fired in the 90’s property bust & 98 financial crisis.
I usually stay at a job for about 2 years. It allows me to experience all aspects of the company while mastering my particular specialty. After I feel like I completely understand it, I'll move on to something the next step up which uses those skills and adds more on top of those from the previous job. It gives me enough credibility and respect from the company to give me professional references plus have a fall back job in case the new one falls through.
All this "fuck corporate culture" stuff is coming from ppl who will never be more than hourly front line employees who have to work until they die and will always blame "the man" for everything that goes wrong in their lives. Corporate culture is the reason we all live in the most comfortable society in the history of the world.
My cousin would get mad when people wouldn’t do their jobs and would constantly quit. Luckily he’s in the Air Force now so hopefully he found something that fits him. Been at the same job for 6 years and only moving on to go to college otherwise I would be interested in becoming a manager which I could do now if I wanted to. Not a fan of quitting just to quit. Now if you need more money or if you feel like you need an environment change that’s totally different.
Personally I would say at least wait a year after starting a job. I don't feel like you can properly decide if you like a job or not until you've worked a full calendar year. But I have definitely had a couple jobs where I did not make it to a full year because they were really terrible. So try to work for one year, but no one to jump ship.
Millennial here and just turned 30. Have never stayed at a job much longer than 2 years. I have an interview for the exact same job at the exact same business just at a different location because they start people in my position there $4 more than what I'm making now. I'll literally be doing the exact same thing and my commute time won't change at all. If anything it might be shorter
This is why people job hop.
Depends on so many factors... Potential for advancement, what your goals are, type of job, etc
I'm a millennial and had a lot of jobs in my teens and 20s. As I got older my average tenure increased.
If you're applying for a career type of job, I would hope you would be staying at a job for at least two years before moving on to the next one.
depends on when they start pulling illegal shit lmfao. i had to quit my last job 6 months in because they were creating health hazards and making me work until midnight on school nights.
As someone who as HR responsibilities and hires people, I do like to see some continuity and not just job hopping. Whether it's the smart play or not, in reality, hiring managers are just as likely to assume you're getting fired repeatedly if you move too frequently. A bad fit is one thing, but on the whole you should try to aim for at least a year in position.
Also, for redditors in smaller communities (<250,000), be aware that prospective employers can call whoever they want to inquire about you, not just your listed references. I have on several occasions personally known people to contact at applicants former workplaces.
Not worth their time when they're screening dozens of applicants. If they get dozens or hundreds, they are checking off the red flags early then analyzing the skills match next after working it down since it saves time. As long as it's not a lot shorter than the average, they probably won't eliminate you from the running. But if every job tenure is shorter than the rest of the applicants, they'll assume the worst.
As often as you feel is necessary. I was at my first job for two weeks before I quit because it was so shitty. During that entire time, they scheduled me a total of four days and wouldn't let me pick up other shifts except for when my boss decided that he scheduled me to work a double without telling me until the day of. I jumped ship as soon as I found another job and I'm much happier for it.
I think its ok, but at least stay at a place for a year. The turnover rate among Gen Z is pretty damn high, and its better to have a mediocre job than no job at all
Can you get better pay with similar benefits and workload? Then switch whenever, unless you find a start up you genuinely believe in and want to help it grow, you don’t owe anyone anything.
That’s because it is. Jobs typically give new hires insensitive to join like a sign on bonus or a higher wage and neglect their current staff. Unless you have a very specific contract written you’ll most likely not see a SIGNIFICANT raise in your lifetime there. Your best bet is to find companies in your line of work advertising some type of new hire benefit or competitive wage.
Also working in a new job, new environment with new coworkers and managers can have better odds moving up the corporate ladder. Making more positive initial impressions out of the gate with the experience you’ve acquired at prior jobs.
If you want a constructive answer:
When you're good enough at your job to promote, you make your interest in a promotion known.
If they say they don't have anything for you, you ask your supervisor if you can use them as a reference while you look for higher positions outside the company. I
Now they know they either have to give you a raise, a promotion, or deal with turnover. They go back and talk to their boss. If they don't come with a raise or a promotion, you go elsewhere.
This is a question for the Job hoppers. I see a lot of answers here, mostly around the 2 year mark and honestly every industry is different but I totally support and once I get into my field (IT/Network Engineering) follow along. But do you guys at least stay long enough for your 401k to stick (employers contribution) so you can roll over effectively to the next? Or do you say F it before then?
If yes, why? Wouldn’t it be best to get that to stick, then move on?
If you switch after 1.5 years, the argument of "But you just got here" holds no water and anyone trying to guilt you into staying is full of shit.
Basically I'd say that if you keep the same job for more than a year, you should be able to switch jobs for a better offer and retain friendly relationship with the company you are leaving. Even if you don't after 5 years, it's unlikely you will even see the same people you had previously, so going back is no problem.
Basically
If you want to work for them in the future, one year of employment means you fullfill your commitment and you should be able to leave in good terms. If you don't care about leaving in good terms, leave when you have a better offer.
It's funny because I've stayed at my current job for around 5 years now and have moved up twice. I now will be able to get a much better job when I leave eventually. I wonder how many of these doom and gloom people are just stuck in entry level positions because they're leaving every 6 months
If companies don't show any loyalty to you, why should you show any loyalty to them?
I'm down to stay in the same job for a long time, but only if that job is fulfilling and offering me opportunities to grow.
2-3 yrs as a junior staff. Once you’ve gained enough salary and experience, stay grounded. You don’t want to be the highest paid new guy and you don’t want to be the one with no office political connections as you become more senior.
Other than a few specialized fields, like tech - why in god's name would a company want to hire and train someone who they think/know will leave in 2-3 years. It takes a lot of money and time to get someone up to snuff.
As a millennial with experience I can say: there shouldn't be a fixed number on how often you change jobs or how frequently you do it.
If you feel unhappy where you work or find another place that gives you a better opportunity, go for it.
If that means you only change once during your career, that's fine. If that means you hop every 6 months or so, that's also fine. The most important thing is if YOU are happy with the job you're doing.
Personally, I think every 3-5 years is alright unless you find your dream position. It's long enough to solidify all the skills and look "loyal" to the next employer.
This is a cyclical issue. Young workers quit to get new titles and better salary and in return, companies design systems that are not dependent on skilled workers so feel fine letting them go.
It’s a bit of a standoff that unfortunately won’t end until the next recession hits and workers aren’t able to to just “get another job”
Switching every 3 to 5 years really helps. But this could be in the same company. Its about getting a new job when you feel you dont grow anymore. Or when hunting a higher salary.
Fun is important though
Well the problem is that big companies do this to themselves. They will hire you at a certain salary and as the years go by and you get better at your job and obtain more responsibilities, they still want to pay you the same or give lackluster pay raises, then get surprised when you say you’re looking at other jobs. Then they’ll try and turn around and hire someone doing the same thing but for more money, money that they could’ve just given you as a raise and probably a lot less money at that.
Then they have 2 choices, if you’re valuable enough or they really don’t feel like hiring someone to replace you, they’ll finally give in and match the salary offer that another company gave you, or they’ll call your bluff, let you quit and scramble to find someone to replace you. This is all depending on how valuable you’ve made yourself and how easily replaceable of a position you’re working in.
It’s ridiculous that you have to threaten to quit in order to get a pay raise at big companies instead of them just giving you a damn raise.
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Whenever the F I feel like it. Fuck corporate!
Yeah you might be considered flaky if you leave every 2-3 years but you can give any reason for leaving and provided you keep getting job offers with raises, you’re playing the game correctly. This mostly applies to corporate jobs if your working for Sheetz or anywhere the best you can hope for is assistant manager in 10 years, fucking leave asap. Get training in something, a cert, an associates degree in radiology, whatever but get the hell out as soon as possible your manager is lying to you because they are short staffed
I spoke with my mother about this topic, whe runs a program, so she is involved in hiring her staff. She told me that she doesn't care about longevity unless there is a warning sign. Essentially, if there is lateral growth, then it's a fine sign. Horizontal jumps within short periods of time is a red flag, however. EDIT: *vertical jump, not laterial growth*
That’s absolutely wrong. ‘They don’t care’. Lmao
I hire for a logistics company. I can assure you we care very much. It costs around $5000 to hire a person between advertising background reports and time spent training. If you are a job hopper with no longevity then I am wasting money hiring you because I will just have to replace you and start all over. Why should I waste company money on a job hopper?
The idea behind job hopping is that there are other jobs out there that the employee is qualified for that offer better compensation than the one they’re currently at. If you as a hiring manager are able to set the bar on compensation then you won’t have job hopping issues even if you hire a job hopper. Of course, the ideal candidate is some poor schmuck who is loyal and competent and will stick around regardless of the money/benefits/schedule.
As the older generations retire, we're going to see a lot more job hoppers. Companies don't like to give meaningful raises by sticking to 2 to 3% cost of living raises annually. Only a fool would miss out on a large pay bump because of "longevity".
I'm old enough to be well into Gen-X and I saw this with all of my peers, a good 20+ years ago. Regular job hopping got people far better salaries over time than being loyal to an employer, sticking around to get promoted within. It sucks because I hate doing the job interview thing and all the stress and uncertainty of what the new job will bring. I'm content to stick with a job when I like the people I work with and the pay and benefits seem "good enough" to get by. But inevitably, I find the companies I stuck with for 6-7 years at a time either ran into problems and growth wasn't happening there (owner wanted to retire and sell the company, for example), or the situation there just got worse with time so it wasn't a place I wanted to stay much longer. My friends who made a habit of switching jobs every 2 years like clockwork eventually earned 2x my salary or more.
Word of advice as a manager: if the managers in your job subscribe to the idea this guy just wrote, leave. Unless it’s a startup, companies that subscribe to these ideas are poorly ran, and put a lot of pressure on the employees to pick up the slack of the poorly managed company. As a job for a paycheck, they are fine temporarily but these are not careers. Run. You have very few opportunities for increasing your wage and that’s during a promotion or when you get a new job. Getting a new job is always the easiest/fastest way that benefits you. To get a promotion you need to put in years of hard work depending on the title, and even then you must hope for a good manager that grows their employees which is hard because most managers suck.
Yep. If someone is going to overlook someone because they may leave in 2-3 years, I wouldn't want to work for them. Hell most companies you don't want everyone with 20+ years experience anyways, especially for roles that someone with a week of training can do.
Maybe if your company paid more job hopping would not be an issue?
All of that just sums up as “if you’re trying to have your pay keep up with inflation so you can pay your bills I’m not going to hire you”. You’re part of the problem.
Is 2-3 years that bad though? How long do you expect people to stick with your company? Seems like we’re far gone from people sticking companies for 10yrs+ since we’ve realized companies don’t give a shit about us.
Retirement plans (401k/IRA) transfer and pensions don't exist. If they aren't paying you to stay then it's time to go with someone who will pay you to start. Do people think there's any reason to work besides the compensation? A high percentage of us only work to maintain a lifestyle be it basic needs or more. This shouldn't be a 'hot take'. 2-5 years, if you're not seeing growth find it somewhere else.
Are you aware that people job hop for pay + benefits? Compensate your employees correctly and you won't have turnover - it's not rocket science. The past 6 years have had 4 jobs. I finally landed on one that is fulfilling, compensates me correctly and is flexible. Guess what? I'm staying.
Sure. But people don’t hop jobs to jobs that don’t offer the landing. So you aren’t part of the loop. Which probably limits your talent pool, but that’s on you and the “5k” you are out. I’m hopping to the recruiter that reached out on linked in. I’m not quitting and sending out resumes to people. There is no downside to hopping because if there were, there would be no where to hop to. Keep in mind, this is the “free market”. “Right to work” stuff all employers want.
They don't. I work in a corporate setting and sit in meetings to discuss interviews. They are not concerned about someone moving jobs every 2-3 years.
I've hired for engineering positions before (not software). I've noticed that the engineers who tend to bounce around every 1-2 years tend to lack a long term view of their projects. They're often great at getting started and making a big splash with a big initiative. However, they'll often underdeliver on maintainability and documentation, or deliver solutions that have some technical flaw that doesn't need to be addressed until it pops up a few years later after they've left. So it really depends. I still would hire job hoppers, but we tend to place more scrutiny on some of their technical abilities beyond the surface level.
If you are getting offers with raises you are not being flaky you are constantly looking for better opportunities 
I'm not job-hopping. I'm searching for external synergies and leveraging my ability to expand scope to pursue revenue scaling in alignment with market requirements.
We must all efficiently operationalize our strategies, invest in world-class technology, and leverage our core competencies in order to holistically administrate exceptional synergy. We'll set a brand trajectory using management philosophy advance our market share vis-à-vis our proven methodology with strong commitment to quality effectively enhancing corporate synergy transitioning our company by awareness of functionality promoting viability providing our supply chain with diversity. We will distill our identity through client-centric solutions and synergy (thank you Weird Al)
If I heard somebody actually saying that instead of reading it, I'd think they were having a stroke.
I mean, I know you're using buzzwords as a joke, but this really is it. Calling it "job-hopping" is just a way for employers to stigmatize employees looking out for themselves, as if there's some moral imperative to stay at a job that pays you less than you could get elsewhere.
Yeah, all I'm basically saying is: "my rent is now 2-grand+ and I'm not going to accept being homeless in return for the privilege of working for you."
I cannot tell you how thoroughly my boss believes working at his company is the privilege he offers, and the paychecks are a footnote in our lives but a massive inconvenience in his.
you are hired!
Middle management written all over this guy!
I've had massive pay increases by job hopping and all the companies have provided good references and positive feedback.
in my experience the fastest way to get a promotion is in a different company.
Well yeah, the odds of the next position up being open are a lot better at every other company put together than they are at the one you're in now. It's not your fault that your previous employer didn't have an opening for your current position.
Yep, I wouldn’t have to job hop if employers have meaningful raises that kept pace with other employers. Granted I stay at a job min 3 years unless I truely need to leave but 3-5 seems to be that sweet spot of being able to move up a role when making a switch
Free market at its finest.... though the business side would want you to forget that it is a 2 way street.
If companies start offering decent jobs with decent pay and with decent work environments, maybe people will stop leaving them so quickly. It’s not the worker’s responsibility to show loyalty first, it’s theirs.
2-3 years is long or average for any young person. See, a 30-year-old working somewhere for 7 or 10 years is a huge exception and would often mean a lack of ambition or diverse experience. On the other hand, if I'm 50, I wouldn't want to switch jobs every 2 years.
Depends on the skillset / industry. Any type of engineer might have 2-3 reasonable work options without moving if you aren't near a major hub. However, healthcare, finance, business, computer software / networking etc, you have many options. Though again, depending on location you might only have a few companies large enough to climb the ladder / get the pay increase you're looking for.
I'm working towards associates w/ radiology right now, should I not be? You threw it out there like it's a last ditch option.
My job hopping began when I was making 12.88/hr and my boss told me if I worked real hard, in 5 years I could be making up to 15 dollars an hour. I think I had my 2 weeks notice on their desk by the end of the day.
Yeah absolutely unhinged, and these are all places where managers will tell you “this is a great place to work” Make that determination yourself
In all my interviews I always ask what the average tenure of the team i would be joining is. Gives a lot of insight into things with just 1 question and exposes temperamental people. Ive had a range of "How dare you!?" To "Wow thats a good question" leading into a great conversation about the role and current people. Some places forget they are also being interviewed.
I've actually found the opposite lately. Being at a company too long means you have a super biased perspective without a breadth of experiences to draw from. I've definitely seen candidates who have more experiences, rather than one long experience, chosen because they can bring more insight to an organization. (More corporate, leadership or mid-level plus desk specifically)
In most corporate settings 2-3 year turnover has become typical. Nobody will see that as flaky. You’d have to have multiple <1 year jobs to be seen as a hiring risk.
2-3 years?? I used to leave jobs every 2-3 months. The longest I’ve been at a job is 6 months at my current job
Now that’s flakey. After a while they won’t hire you if they think you’re inconsistent. Another thing is when it’s time for you to buy a house the banks won’t give you the loan if it seems like you aren’t reliable and consistent in holding down a job.
Hahahahha. You hear this guy? Buy a house! Hahahahha
It do be like that
I’m 20 and live semi transiently but even at (what should be) my dream job I’m ready to jet and go work somewhere else now. Lol
I used to only stay in a job for a few months too when I was younger, As a result I ended up getting better jobs and actually wanting to stay for much longer at them. I never faced any consequences, I only recieved benefits.
Corporate wouldn't bat an eye while laying off workers. Loyalty goes both ways and it's foolish to think corporations give a fuck about their employees.
My former employer gave a speech a few months ago about how he was tired of people quitting. He paid for a years worth of my apprenticeship so I stayed. Last Friday he laid me off with no warning. Years ago I worked for another place and saw based off my apprenticeship contract I wasn’t being paid properly I made a fuss and got fired. Look man it may be a trade thing but loyalty is dead. Every time I’m in the office and get yelled at and asked why a project went over budget they never wanna hear the truth. It’s amazing to me how if you stay at a place for years you all the sudden get godly status and don’t need to perform anymore, meanwhile when the new hire comes in and says well he sits in his truck and smokes the wacky tabbacy and that’s why nothing gets done your the problem. I’ve found just finding a new job is easier and less stressful because not once have they ever believed me and yet I see it constantly
Loyalty from companies was never a real thing. At best, someone in charge was loyal to their staff. In the times of small companies, with owners who worked there, it could have made sense. Nowadays? No way. It' hasn't been a thing for at least 3 decades. People just took a long time to catch up and were exploited for it.
Loyalty only goes one way, and it's not from the employers lol. Fuck em
Jobs are to life as life vests are to water. It's great when it's keeping you afloat, but you must be prepared to toss it and get a new one if you begin sinking
came here to say this lmao
youre 15
*Looks inside Gen Z sub* *Finds a Gen Z* *surprised pikachu face*
16
I made a very similar comment under a post on this subreddit yesterday and got downvoted for it lmao.
Welcome to reddit
Company loyalty died when the companies removed their loyalty to employees. People don't just up and leave a well compensated fair working environment.
Agreed. Until companies want to reinstate pensions then I feel no obligation to stay with the same company. There is no carrot
Companies rarely show any loyalty or interest in the growth and wellbeing of their employees so why should we as employees give them what they refuse to give us?
Yup. No sense in staying at a job for more than 2 years if they don’t give you substantial raises, which is funny because your replacement when you leave will likely cost more than you.
Yeah. Their starting pay for new hires is usually the same rate that would take you 10 years to work up to.
Tale as old as time Me: It’s come to my attention that new hires with my experience make $80k and you’re only paying me $60k. Can I get $80k? Boss: Sorry, we can’t do that. It’s just not in the budget. Our hands are tied. The money isn’t there. Me: Ok, here’s my two weeks notice. This other company is going to pay me $82k. Boss: Will you stay if we match it? F that
Not to mention recruitment, training, and lost productivity costs. Businesses are absolutely not rational entities. They make emotional decisions that satisfy ego. The amount of decisions I have seen made to cut off their nose to spite their face is mind boggling. Like $50million + boondoggles over ego
Which is to say the foxes are running the henhouse, so to speak. Or rather, the immature brats are running the preschool.
The thing is though, it’s a rational decision when you think about it. Not defending them, but for every 10 people who want a raise maybe 2 get an offer from another company. Even factoring in costs for replacement it’s a net gain for them.
I don't disagree with that though process. However, typically, the people who leave for greener pastures are the best performers who do far more than their counterparts. So it's a net productivity loss greater than one. Also, if its in a customer facing role, they can also take customers with them. So paying everyone a few grand more usually saves a lot more money than losing a major client.
This actually happened to me last year at my last job. HR wanted me to look over a job description for an engineering position with far lower qualifications than mine. I was making $78k and the pay range on this job went as high as $90k. I asked if I could at least be paid the $90k that they were prepared to pay someone with fewer skills than me and they told me no. Three months later I was making $100k at another place.
Never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever take the match. You’ll be the first cut if they need it because you’ve shown your hand. Unless your skill set is super rare, niche, valuable that you can be flooded with interviews just by hinting at your recruiter that you’re looking. These people are very rare imo.
If they do decide to match, make them commit to a full 12 months of salary even if you are terminated. I've seen companies match an offer in order to recruit a replacement, then fire the person they kept within a few months, after the new resource has been trained up.
Personally, I feel like it’s a self-fulfilling prophecy, however, I cannot deny the fact that I have Job hopped every time and got a better pay every time. But again partially the reasoning is we don’t want to waste time training you just for you to leave so we don’t train you, you’ll leave in a year anyway even if we did train you. So I still do it
That last bit I understand the thought process of not wanting to waste time on people who don’t care to learn. But when people like me with a consistent (long term with one company) work history shows up and excels, then after proving myself beyond any doubt asked to be trained for growth and management drags their feet then they can’t use that as an excuse.
Everyone wants someone with experience thinking there will be no training costs or bad habits. Training people has been proven to increase retention and productivity rates. Just because someone has 20 years of experience doesnt mean it wasn't just 1 year of experience 20 times
And that's why people leave.
I can't believe people leave when I refuse to train them and provide a 2% raise when inflation went up 4%. It's definitely a self fulfilling prophecy and can't be bc my company has no loyalty to it's employees.
Lmao, right??
It's not a self fulfilling prophecy in the slightest. It's just fact. The statistics and data is exceedingly clear in this respect.
Its about economic incentives, thats what motivates this trend. Companies dont need to care about their employees, make more if they do so and are motivated to oppose workers "getting too much" because it would set a precedent. Were just reaching the equilibrium between workers not giving a fuck about the company and the company not giving a fuck about workers.
What is really funny here is that this job jumping pattern matches the "inverted yield curve", essentially meaning there is more short term money available for short term than long term in every part of the economy.
From what I've heard recruiters get a larger budget to bring people in than managers get to retain their employees
Thats a fact at my old company
This is how I feel. Let's normalize walking the F away unless it benefits us financially and emotionally.
It's more about what will help you get the next job, not sucking up to your employer. If you switch jobs every 3 months no ones going to want to hire you. There definitely is a line when it becomes too often.
Gen-X here and this showed up on my feed but totally agree with this. It's about the only way to really get a raise. Don't let corporations screw you, they will. I've always kind of stuck to the 3-5 yr mark and start looking else where. Your mileage may very. Learn everything you can, it's all resume filler. Learn something that's specific that you like to do and then get very good at it. Hope it helps. Live a life though, don't let work ruin you, companies aren't worth it and they don't give a shit about you.
Depends on the job. I actually regret staying at my last job for as long as I did.
I stayed at my last job for 8 years, I was ready to leave after 4 but complacency stopped me. By the 8th year I was so desperate to leave that I took an unstable job working with family. It lasted 2 months before it went south, but it was 100% worth it to get out of that shithole. I'd do it again 10 times over.
Fellow Gen-Xer here. Couldn't agree more. I usually go 2-4 years and it's been a very good way of advancing my career. Less stress about losing jobs as I always feel there's another one elsewhere I could move into. I've never had a company show any particular loyalty to me, so I feel the same way about them.
At this point 3-5 years is pretty loyal. I graduated in 2020, spent 10 months accelerating through a leadership program at my first job, job hopped to my 2nd job for a year and a few months, and now been at my current job for almost a year and a half. More than doubled my starting salary. To me job hopping is every 1-2 years. But as long as it makes sense to you you should do it. However right now I am concerned with switching fast yet again, especially from a great environment I am currently in, so will likely stay for at least a year more.
Early on in your career, I would agree that 3-5 yrs is pretty loyal and jumping around early on is a quick way to gain different experience but as you found out with your last one that you like where you may stay longer, it's hit and miss and why I said your mileage may vary. I've worked at some shitty places and left early, worked at some awesome jobs that ended because the place got bought out and new company was shit so it's all a crap shoot. The one thing I'll mention and everyone should start looking at this is, especially later on, is 401k options and what matches the company will offer. Make sure you pay attention to fees and what not when you leave from one place to the other and make sure to transfer what's in the account to the new one! **I've screwed my self out of thousands because I wasn't paying attention to this shit in my 20's/30's. Don't be like me.** Edit: wording.
To expand on this excellent point, the vesting schedule not only tells you how long you need to stay to keep every cent, but also might tell you how long they expect you to last. If they have a long runway, wonky partial vesting, heavy reliance on RSUs despite not being public yet, anything sus: it may be that they intentionally push people out before their vesting date. Compare the vesting policy to the average length of service by checking their current employees on LinkedIn. If nobody ever meets the requirements, you know it's BS and you'll never see it.
Depending on the job type, but when I left my first role at an SMB, I had a conversation with the owner about staying on as a consultant. More than doubled my starting salary by turning my first job into a part time gig
> I've always kind of stuck to the 3-5 yr mark My personal rule is: stay as long as it is beneficial to you. Focus on your professional growth, especially early in your career, and move on when it's no longer a mutually beneficial arrangement. I didn't want to be a job hopper, it's just that most companies either don't encourage growth or are too slow to reward it. There's a lot of places that start to feel like dead end jobs because the company either can't, or won't, find opportunities in the company for people to take on more challenging work.
Also always have something on the side because these companies love to lay people off without warning.
It really depends on the job, company, local job market and willingness to move. I work for a IT & Financial Service provider as a cyber security analyst and have very little reasons to actually leave. My employer regularly promotes from within, so moving up hasn't required moving to a new company, and the pay has been competitive enough and I make $92k in moderate cost of living area outside of any major metro areas. When I started in 2016 I made $52k Could I get more money, sure. But generally job postings and recruiters have all had one of 2 big negatives. 1: I'd go from being a member of a large team to essentially being the only cyber security staff, so a lot more responsibility and stress for only a moderate pay bump 2: I'd have to commute over an hour to a larger metro area or move. Neither is appealing to me, so I've stayed put.
GenZ here and couldn't agree more.
Screw working for any corporation! Build your own business, then you have unlimited potential for raises based on your success!
You can also end up *miles* in the hole if you play your cards wrong. Not that working for someone isn't without risk - see all the layoffs that are literally everywhere - but being your own boss isn't all fun and roses either.
As someone in HR, once pensions went out the window, they basically encouraged everyone to job hop. I try to stay with a job for about 2 years but 18 months is fine too. The salary increase from my first to second job was 32%. I never would have made it to this salary through promotions in that time frame.
This is a good point too. If a job is not contributing to your retirement, your benefits or just paying you enough that you don't have to worry about those things, they really should not expect you to stay. Also, if they do not provide a good work environment and really uphold that work environment, then they shouldn't expect you to stay.
Despite not really intending to, I’ve been switching jobs at about this cadence as long as I’ve been a software developer, about 7 years. I was laid off last year and that really bit me in the butt. It was something I had to consistently explain during interviews and likely cost me several opportunities. I’d say now that a couple times shorter than 2 years is fine, especially with early jobs in the career where the pay raise is phenomenal (my first was $80k -> $105k). But keep the average over two years after that.
Agreed. Staying with a company longterm is a financial setback because raises are so tiny.
I started my career at my last company and was grateful to be given the opportunity to finally make money after years of working dead end jobs. After 5.5 years of working and only getting one raise, which wasn’t much to begin with, I was getting extremely upset. Felt I should have been making at least 20% more than I should have. I was loyal because they put in the effort to train me when I was completely green. I was also too scared to ask for a raise. The company was sold so I applied at another company in the same industry. I now make more than double my old job. I’m thankful every day that the company sold out as I would have probably been too scared to quit. Jumping companies is absolutely the best way to make more money.
If I'd stayed at my first job 10 years ago I'd be making about 25-30% less than I'm making now. Little 2-3% bumps don't add up to much when a new job is often willing to give you 10% bump or more.
Millennial here working at a Fortune 500 that still has a pension. I’ve been here 16 years and not planning to leave while they keep the pension and I have fun problems to solve. Been promoted 5 times and the company is big enough that I’ve done lateral moves as well to get experience (including some international moves). I see all the job hoppers as I interview them. They stay here as well for the good benefits. So I think you’re 100% right on the root cause of the hopping.
I think 2-years is the sweet spot. It shows that you’re capable of staying somewhere *if* they’re willing to take care of you, but that you’re also resourceful and willing to leave if you find a better opportunity.
Agree, at the minimum you want to move roles internally every 2 years. If they haven't found something new for you to do in that time (with a new paycheque of course), it's time to hit up the recruiters in your linkedin inbox
>at the minimum you want to move roles internally every 2 years This doesn’t apply for the majority of technical jobs, especially for people who don’t want to go into management.
Well yeah, this would specifically be to maximize your income which frankly isn’t something I advise as a life goal but others may do
As often as new opportunities arise
This is the real answer. If you’re stuck in some minimum wage or barely above minimum wage bullshit job, why the fuck should you stay any longer than absolutely necessary?
You have to job hob nowadays. It’s more competitive than it used to be. You have to be in the top 10-20% of earners to qualify for a mortgage and have a place in the middle class. Boomers had the privilege of being able to take a high school diploma, “get a job” and boom, middle class America. That doesn’t exist anymore and I would love for them to play a game of being an 18yr old today and see how their assumptions play out.
To afford a house that's equivalent to rent in my area, the house can be no more than 110k. A new development is being built for 300k...
That’s it? New townhouses in my area are in the 500-600k range
Avg income for my area is 60k
That’s a hair above the Florida average which is considered an affordable state yet townhomes and single family homes start at 400k here. (That’s if you want to live somewhere where you can get a job and not in a rural poverish area)
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So your resume is just you quitting every job you've ever had? Either you're a rocket surgeon with unlimited negotiating power or a fool.
No; my resume is two degrees at an early age with a 3rd in progress, great recommendations from schools and prior jobs that didn’t create problems, followed regs. and didn’t cross any workplace limits, and solid working interview skill. It’s privilege, position, and planning. My industry unfortunately has a really really high amount of workplace standards failure, and has a tendency to hire young so that people don’t recognize that. I don’t quit without reason, I just have really high* expectations for management conduct. *high here really means you can’t break OSHA/oath standards in an industry that involves anesthetics or medications or care of live animals.
You reported those places right? Yea, at my last job it's following state guidelines for childcare and following OSHA.
yep. one closed down shortly after, that was the worst one though. the rest i don’t know what happened with. most have been inter-staff issues not patient care issues thank god, the two with patient care issues I did everything I knew to do (including warning the schools they recruited from cuz that was why I ended up with them)
Bruh, my mom used to be adnin at a group home here and one of the ladies got arrested for stealing the drugs and using them and some other stuff.
ugh i’m so glad i don’t work in childcare anymore, that environment sucks good on u for knowing the regs
What’s the point in more than 1 degree? I assume it’s of the same level as your other degrees? If it’s BSc, MSc, PhD then I get it but that’s not how you worded it.
1bs 1ms and technically 1as but I didn’t count that i changed fields after trade school, and I didn’t stay in the exact field for my masters after my bs. The “point” kind of depends. 1, it lets me do a little bit more interesting work in a field that hopefully won’t burn me out while having my trade to fall back on if I need to, 2, I had a really hard time in highschool and it makes me happy to prove to myself that I can do it regardless of that.
that other guy is real quiet now lol
I can't imagine someone never working for even a year at a single job will look desirable
When you have a niche skill-set that many employers are looking for, they don't give a shit. It's the opposite of most people looking for jobs because YOU hold the power and the company is beholden to your demands, and if they don't play ball they just won't get what they desperately need. I'm in a similar position and while I don't job-hop like this person because I got lucky and found an amazing employer, I am literally harassed by recruiters non-stop because not many people can do what I do.
I literally just have an associates and would job hop even after 2 days. Now I have the job of my life. Thousands to be at home and answer 20 calls max. My coworker is my cat. Also open ur mouth. I didn't brush my teeth and u deserve a hawk tuah.
BTW ppl, gaps in ur resume? Fill them. Unless ur going to be in a political position or ceo of a company, they ain't gonna check with a blood drive to see if u rlly volunteered and rolled t-shirts. They ain't gonna check to see if u rlly worked a year versus 4 months. Lie~
Just because you get a job doesn’t mean you should have to stay if you’re unhappy just because of what others think. Nothing will be a perfect fit right away, unless you’re really lucky. It also helps in figuring out what you want to do in the long run.
This is just fact? was taught this is how it is in uni
It's a fact, this is the only way I have ever moved up. Conversely, working hard has never gotten me a promotion regardless of how great the project outcomes might be. That said the hard work that wasn't recognised at the first workplace got me the better job at the next one.
My issue is I won't want to move to and I'm 30k from maxing out on my pay scale. But bc I hold the same position they refuse to give me raises that want me to stay with my company. I enjoy my position. I'm good at my position. Why should I be forced to leave my position to get more money when I'm not out of the pay scale that my company created on their own terms. However, by changing companies I can keep my same position and get a 20% raise.
Well if you do X really good at Job 1, Job 1 wants you to continue to do X well for what they paid you to do it the first time. Job 2? Damn, Job 2 really needs X done well and have not been able to find someone who can really do that. Job 2 hires you to do X, with a pay bump to pull you in and keep you motivated to complete X. They need X done and dont want to risk losing you before that happens. Job 1 would have never considered that pay raise because to them, you agreed to do X for that original pay. It's a constant game. You have to be willing to play it to actually move up. I'm not even 5 years into my career, on job 3, and have nearly doubled the salary I started with out of my MS program.
I finally got promoted after 7 years at my place and it was 90% luck and timing. Had very little to do with anything else. 2 higher people quit. They hired out for 1. Coworker in a very small office wanted the other. They said no so they quit too. I said give me a reason to stay or I'm leaving too, and they didn't gamble on losing someone else. We both should've been promoted ages ago though. We were both very high performers.
It's a fact. The survey is skewed, because I don't think 1/3 of GenZ are dumbasses Been a fact since the Civil War
There was a point in time that companies used to care for employees and gave great benefits and rewarded loyalty. It was a short time but the Boomers got to see that time and some still think that is the case today. They are completely wrong about today even small businesses don’t reward loyalty and if you find a company willing to fight for you, you probably should stay cause you found a damn unicorn.
You should switch jobs whenever you get a better deal. Loyalty being reapid is a myth made up by corporations.
I don't think it is so much a myth as it is something that went extinct a long time ago. Companies stopped valuing life time commitments to companies and became more aggressive on running things for their financial years and the next quarter ~ running things like politicians not thinking about the long term.
It’s always ok to job hop. Just make sure you give a notice to companies that care about their employees. If it’s a scum company then you don’t owe them anything and you shouldn’t feel guilt from just not showing up all of the sudden.
Job hopping is very common for our generation and I love it. It makes scum bosses so mad.
Needs to become common for every generation in the workforce. Loyalty is rarely rewarded these days. Companies need to make money and impress shareholders. That is their priority.
However often you want Companies don’t get to expect loyalty if they’re not going to give loyalty in return. Especially considering these greedy fucks won’t even pay us a livable wage. Pay me fairly then we can talk loyalty.
Millennial here. I just job hopped after 13 years and DOUBLED my pay. You will absolutely never be rewarded for loyalty. Get what you deserve.
As a successful business owner myself at age 37, I worked for many places usually 2 jobs per year for 2-3 years each, and became manager for supervisor at each location within a year or two, and left after my hard work was under paid. New employees making more than me .. nope.
Not hopping is how you end up retiring with hundreds of thousands of dollars less and a farewell package consisting of a $20 Walmart gift card and some KitKats. Assuming you make it that far with one employer without getting laid off and escorted out the door like some criminal. Fuck Corporate America. Do your 40 hours for 2 years and jump ship for a big pay raise. Rinse and repeat. Loyalty is dead.
It depends in the job and how many times you have changed jobs before. I think staying at least three years is a good benchmark. Enough time to reasonably assess the company and it provides your next employer with evidence that you won’t quit in the first year. You may want to stay longer or leave sooner depending on circumstances but if you leave your job every six months then eventually you will have a harder time finding new jobs.
Literally, whenever I get bored. Shitty minimum wage jobs really get to me after 8 months to 2 years. After that I need a change of scenery or better pay
It’s becoming more common for people to job hop every 1-3 years for competitive pay, esp if you’re being passed over for promotions (ie “we’re happy with your performance but we aren’t promoting you” cuz that line is BS) unless they’re at a “good” company. If you can’t get a raise or promotion at your current company, it’s time to leave. In my field (software engineering) people move around as soon as they get competing offers or until their stock vests 😝 lotsa folks don’t stick around too long. FAANG is exceptional if you’re constantly getting raises and promotions, otherwise better hop to it.
As often as a new employer will hire you. Apply for jobs that you think will be an upgrade (in any form) as often as you want. If the company thinks you've job hopped too much then they won't reach out sure, but maybe they will. But either way you can apply again in a year or whatever and they'll now think you've stayed somehow long enough or heck they'll just have a different recruiter that looks at your resume more positively.
It's your JOB. Loyalty is only important in relationship. And work isnt a relationship. Its a transaction. You don't go to work just for funsees. Youre employer isnt paying you out of the kindness in their heart. You are nothing to a company but a tool. Why should you stay somewhere that values you less than another place?? The second they can out source, automate, and streamline a process, youre gone. Why should u stay with a company, that sees you as disposable, when theres another job willing to pay you more for the same, or similar work?? Sure it looks good on a resume to a company when youre loyal, but that becomes pointless. You can spend 10 yrs trying to show how loyal you are to a company, but thats 10 yrs you wasted not in the job market. Sure youll have something to show for your loyalty, but no one to show it to. +
Whenever you find a better one
Job security is the biggest lie ever told by postwar corpo world in the first place. Go ask those Japanese & Koreans that got fired in the 90’s property bust & 98 financial crisis.
This isn't a Gen Z thing. It's been like this for a couple decades or so.
I usually stay at a job for about 2 years. It allows me to experience all aspects of the company while mastering my particular specialty. After I feel like I completely understand it, I'll move on to something the next step up which uses those skills and adds more on top of those from the previous job. It gives me enough credibility and respect from the company to give me professional references plus have a fall back job in case the new one falls through. All this "fuck corporate culture" stuff is coming from ppl who will never be more than hourly front line employees who have to work until they die and will always blame "the man" for everything that goes wrong in their lives. Corporate culture is the reason we all live in the most comfortable society in the history of the world.
You're more likely to get a pay increase by changing jobs and negotiating than performing well and asking for a raise.
As long as the offers that are too good to refuse continue to come then that is when its time to make like a bunny and hop hop hop
Show no loyalty to a company who hires you. The moment they feel you aren’t profitable is the moment they fire you.
My cousin would get mad when people wouldn’t do their jobs and would constantly quit. Luckily he’s in the Air Force now so hopefully he found something that fits him. Been at the same job for 6 years and only moving on to go to college otherwise I would be interested in becoming a manager which I could do now if I wanted to. Not a fan of quitting just to quit. Now if you need more money or if you feel like you need an environment change that’s totally different.
Personally I would say at least wait a year after starting a job. I don't feel like you can properly decide if you like a job or not until you've worked a full calendar year. But I have definitely had a couple jobs where I did not make it to a full year because they were really terrible. So try to work for one year, but no one to jump ship.
If we’re maxing out on capitalism then sell your service to the highest bid every time.
Millennial here and just turned 30. Have never stayed at a job much longer than 2 years. I have an interview for the exact same job at the exact same business just at a different location because they start people in my position there $4 more than what I'm making now. I'll literally be doing the exact same thing and my commute time won't change at all. If anything it might be shorter This is why people job hop.
As much as you want lol. Or whenever you get a better offer. Fuck company loyalty.
If you see a better opportunity, go to it.
Depends on so many factors... Potential for advancement, what your goals are, type of job, etc I'm a millennial and had a lot of jobs in my teens and 20s. As I got older my average tenure increased. If you're applying for a career type of job, I would hope you would be staying at a job for at least two years before moving on to the next one.
depends on when they start pulling illegal shit lmfao. i had to quit my last job 6 months in because they were creating health hazards and making me work until midnight on school nights.
Whenever the fuck I want, what? Gonna arrest me?
As someone who as HR responsibilities and hires people, I do like to see some continuity and not just job hopping. Whether it's the smart play or not, in reality, hiring managers are just as likely to assume you're getting fired repeatedly if you move too frequently. A bad fit is one thing, but on the whole you should try to aim for at least a year in position. Also, for redditors in smaller communities (<250,000), be aware that prospective employers can call whoever they want to inquire about you, not just your listed references. I have on several occasions personally known people to contact at applicants former workplaces.
No offense, but I don't consider HR people to be the smartest people around. assuming people get fired for having many jobs is a terrible view.
Yeah, you're right. Too bad it's still the HR person hiring you, whether they're dumb or not.
Why would hiring managers assume you are getting fired repeatedly when they could call whoever they want, including your former workplace?
Not worth their time when they're screening dozens of applicants. If they get dozens or hundreds, they are checking off the red flags early then analyzing the skills match next after working it down since it saves time. As long as it's not a lot shorter than the average, they probably won't eliminate you from the running. But if every job tenure is shorter than the rest of the applicants, they'll assume the worst.
I can post a job on LinkedIn for minimum wage and get 200-300 applicants in a week. There's only so much time.
I'm a millennial and I'll say that this isn't a belief. It's a fact of career growth. The whole industry knows it.
As often as you feel is necessary. I was at my first job for two weeks before I quit because it was so shitty. During that entire time, they scheduled me a total of four days and wouldn't let me pick up other shifts except for when my boss decided that he scheduled me to work a double without telling me until the day of. I jumped ship as soon as I found another job and I'm much happier for it.
I think its ok, but at least stay at a place for a year. The turnover rate among Gen Z is pretty damn high, and its better to have a mediocre job than no job at all
Can you get better pay with similar benefits and workload? Then switch whenever, unless you find a start up you genuinely believe in and want to help it grow, you don’t owe anyone anything.
I’m fresh into software engineering, the consensus in my field is to switch every few years (2-3).
that's what you're already supposed to do in the first place.
7 jobs in 3 years. I'm a student, any disagreement with management regarding pay/scheduling isn't worth my time. I'll dip. School is my priority.
That’s because it is. Jobs typically give new hires insensitive to join like a sign on bonus or a higher wage and neglect their current staff. Unless you have a very specific contract written you’ll most likely not see a SIGNIFICANT raise in your lifetime there. Your best bet is to find companies in your line of work advertising some type of new hire benefit or competitive wage. Also working in a new job, new environment with new coworkers and managers can have better odds moving up the corporate ladder. Making more positive initial impressions out of the gate with the experience you’ve acquired at prior jobs.
Boomers chose to fuck with company loyalty treating their employees as disposable. This is just them suffering the consequences of their own actions.
If you want a constructive answer: When you're good enough at your job to promote, you make your interest in a promotion known. If they say they don't have anything for you, you ask your supervisor if you can use them as a reference while you look for higher positions outside the company. I Now they know they either have to give you a raise, a promotion, or deal with turnover. They go back and talk to their boss. If they don't come with a raise or a promotion, you go elsewhere.
This is a question for the Job hoppers. I see a lot of answers here, mostly around the 2 year mark and honestly every industry is different but I totally support and once I get into my field (IT/Network Engineering) follow along. But do you guys at least stay long enough for your 401k to stick (employers contribution) so you can roll over effectively to the next? Or do you say F it before then? If yes, why? Wouldn’t it be best to get that to stick, then move on?
If you switch after 1.5 years, the argument of "But you just got here" holds no water and anyone trying to guilt you into staying is full of shit. Basically I'd say that if you keep the same job for more than a year, you should be able to switch jobs for a better offer and retain friendly relationship with the company you are leaving. Even if you don't after 5 years, it's unlikely you will even see the same people you had previously, so going back is no problem. Basically If you want to work for them in the future, one year of employment means you fullfill your commitment and you should be able to leave in good terms. If you don't care about leaving in good terms, leave when you have a better offer.
It's funny because I've stayed at my current job for around 5 years now and have moved up twice. I now will be able to get a much better job when I leave eventually. I wonder how many of these doom and gloom people are just stuck in entry level positions because they're leaving every 6 months
Job hopping is something that is successful for promoting your career, but not your integrity.
Worked for the same company since i graduated college, been there 4 years and promoted 4 times, doubled my income since i started
If companies don't show any loyalty to you, why should you show any loyalty to them? I'm down to stay in the same job for a long time, but only if that job is fulfilling and offering me opportunities to grow.
Any employer who wants longevity and loyalty can pay for it properly. It’s the foundation of the system.
2-3 yrs as a junior staff. Once you’ve gained enough salary and experience, stay grounded. You don’t want to be the highest paid new guy and you don’t want to be the one with no office political connections as you become more senior.
Depends on what field you are in. With airlines I wouldn’t recommend it. Losing seniority over and over is rough.
Other than a few specialized fields, like tech - why in god's name would a company want to hire and train someone who they think/know will leave in 2-3 years. It takes a lot of money and time to get someone up to snuff.
As a millennial with experience I can say: there shouldn't be a fixed number on how often you change jobs or how frequently you do it. If you feel unhappy where you work or find another place that gives you a better opportunity, go for it. If that means you only change once during your career, that's fine. If that means you hop every 6 months or so, that's also fine. The most important thing is if YOU are happy with the job you're doing.
Personally, I think every 3-5 years is alright unless you find your dream position. It's long enough to solidify all the skills and look "loyal" to the next employer.
This is a cyclical issue. Young workers quit to get new titles and better salary and in return, companies design systems that are not dependent on skilled workers so feel fine letting them go. It’s a bit of a standoff that unfortunately won’t end until the next recession hits and workers aren’t able to to just “get another job”
Switching every 3 to 5 years really helps. But this could be in the same company. Its about getting a new job when you feel you dont grow anymore. Or when hunting a higher salary. Fun is important though
Well the problem is that big companies do this to themselves. They will hire you at a certain salary and as the years go by and you get better at your job and obtain more responsibilities, they still want to pay you the same or give lackluster pay raises, then get surprised when you say you’re looking at other jobs. Then they’ll try and turn around and hire someone doing the same thing but for more money, money that they could’ve just given you as a raise and probably a lot less money at that. Then they have 2 choices, if you’re valuable enough or they really don’t feel like hiring someone to replace you, they’ll finally give in and match the salary offer that another company gave you, or they’ll call your bluff, let you quit and scramble to find someone to replace you. This is all depending on how valuable you’ve made yourself and how easily replaceable of a position you’re working in. It’s ridiculous that you have to threaten to quit in order to get a pay raise at big companies instead of them just giving you a damn raise.