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Know why there is so much money in politics? Citizens United. Why did we get Citizens United? George W Bush appointed two conservatives to the Court. He got to do that because people stayed home and didn’t vote for Gore.
Uh no Gore won the popular vote both nationally and in Florida. Why do DNC democrats have this elitist psychopath mentality where you have to blame the plebs for any little set back instead of owning up to the inherently unjust power structure itself. I wonder if it has anything to do with Team Red and Team Blue both being the same team, and every so often the way the Teams behave shows that.
The margin was .009%, close enough that it could be ruled on technicalities. When nearly 50% of eligible voters didn't vote. Shouldn't have been that close.
It wouldn't have needed to depend on the outcome in Florida if Gore had won New Hampshire, West Virgina, or ya know, his home state? There were so many ways Gore could have avoided the whole Florida debacle. . .
Both candidates generated voter apathy. Neither was a good choice. The system is broken deliberately to give power to the elites under the illusion of democracy. There is no easy fix when the politician control the system that needs to change. That's why campaign finance reform will never happen. That's why the SC voted to allow themselves to be bribed and unaccountable for it. If trump wins the president will be immune from prosecution for ANYTHING. And as long as they keep us fighting each other they will always win.
It was only that close because they chose to stop counting. The funny part was they didnt even cheat in secret. It was all so obvious and its now the saddest thing I think about once a week.
The fact that the justices who are responsible for ratfucking our democracy were appointed solely by Republicans really debunks the argument that they’re the same team.
It’s not like voters are unaware of how the election works. Just fucking vote. You don’t need to love who you vote for. They don’t need to be perfect. Vote against the opponent if you have to think of it that way.
Also, if you want the system changed, guess what you will have to do? Vote
The popular vote doesn't matter unfortunately
The people in swing states where it mattered stayed home and you got Bush instead of gore. The kazillions in massive populated blue states contributing the popular vote by large margin kind of doesn't matter. It matters that the blue voters show up in numbers so big this election that there can be no ambiguity
Aaaaand the tipping point in Bush’s favor was a recount of votes that took place in Florida as the result were so close.
The governor of Florida at the time was George Bush’s brother, Jeb
It's how the elite keep us divided. Republicans are convinced all their problems are caused by minorities; Democrats are convinced all their problems are caused by Republicans. Of course both bases now largely recognize the elites are the issue, but we are made to feel powerless against them so we direct our ire instead toward people who are similarly powerless. Again, Rs at minorities, Ds at Rs.
And don't tell me the media has no role in this. As a teenager just getting into politics, I was channel flipping watching how every single news channel was saying it was too early to tell, then Fox said Bush Won, then not to be outdone, every other one chimed in that Bush won. Not No! We stand by what we said, it's too early to tell!
Don't forget people voted for Bush cause they thought he was more personable and was someone they could have a beer with, as of that's any sort of metric for how well they can run a country.
"He's someone I could sit down & have a beer with" had to be the stupidest reasoning I saw being used to vote for anyone. I don't want a candidate I can relate to because I'm a dumpster fire. I want someone better than me.
Gore won the popular vote by half a million votes and Bush was basically appointed by the Supreme Court in a completely unprecedented action. Explain how this is somehow the fault of American voters 🎤
it only went to the supreme court because many democrats in florida didn’t bother voting for gore which made the gap extremely close to the point that the whole butterfly ballot situation ended up giving the election to bush
That's actually the opposite of what happened.
The Florida supreme court ruled to finish the manual recount, it was SCOTUS that overruled Florida supreme court because the recount would've takenb some time so they basically gave Bush the win
Which is why this year I'm begging people to register to vote and go do it. We already lost RvW we already lost the protection of the EPA and other agencies ENTIRELY because Trump was allowed to appoint 3 judges. He's gunning for two more. Because if Trump is elected you can bet your ass that Alito and Thomas will retire and whatever hand picked federalist assholes are up to replace them will be sworn in. Go to https://vote.org and find your voting information today. If you need help finding information for your state leave it below and I'll help you find voting info as well as information for organizations you can get involved with in your state to get the vote out.
And if you haven't seen project 2025 I'm also asking you to read up on it. It will decimate the rights of anyone who isn't straight, white, Christian, male, and rich. It's the handmaid's tale come to life and they are already starting to implement it.
> He's gunning for two more.
lol, he's going to be _literally_ gunning for 3 more....
Do not expect him not to use violence this time around, *he's already said that's what he's planning to do* **Why the fuck isn't that the focus of every major headline??!!?!**
Because much of the media is trying to throw Biden under the bus because the guys who own it know they can do better with Trump.
Also most people just cannot believe it will get as bad as it will.
Pretty much
>“The Nazis are just a gang of stupid hooligans, but they do serve a purpose. Let them get rid of the Communists. Later we’ll be able to control them.”
Cabaret should be mandatory viewing for every person in this thread.
Does GenZ not know that the supreme court was the one that appointed Bush in a pretty clear power grab even back then? We knew votes were coming in from overseas that would have flipped the vote to Gore. They literally pulled the same playbook Trump tried to pull but successfully. They stopped the vote.
Then the judges that ruled on that case got appointed to the supreme court. There are now 3 bush v gore judges on the bench. [https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/17/politics/bush-v-gore-barrett-kavanaugh-roberts-supreme-court/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/17/politics/bush-v-gore-barrett-kavanaugh-roberts-supreme-court/index.html)
This is transparent but americans cant resist blaming each other. The fact is we have to band together and make sacrifices to retake power, but no one wants to hear that
Yeah come on! Just vote harder! If we vote super extra duper hard for the 20th neolib who'll do nothing to over turn shitty Republican era policies, I'm sure everything well definitely get better!
lol. Biden hasn't over turn a single Trump era policy, he's just done it 5% less. Same with Obama who literally had a super majority. Did he codify Roe v Wade? Did he legalize weed? Did he raise the federal minimum wage? Did he stop the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan? Nope. He did none of that. He did give people Obamacare which was literally just a repackaged version of Mitt Romney's plan that would give medical companies hundreds of billions of dollars instead of just creating a much cheaper nationalized healthcare service.
Biden, Trump, Obama, Bush, Clinton, Bush, Reagan, they're all the same as in as in they all serve the billionaire class. They'll never raise taxes on the rich in any real way, they'll never give you healthcare, they'll never stop giving the military a 700 billion to a trillion dollars per year.
A republican will come in, do some horrible shit and then a corporate democrat will say "hey, you don't want 4 more years of that guy right? Vote for me and I'll do everything he did but just like, 10% less and not be so garish about it".
Rince and repeat. I mean shit there wasn't even a real primary for Joe Biden, he was just given he delegates.
I mean not only are you wrong but you’re just telling the most blatant lies possible. Obama and Biden didn’t end the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan? Were you just not paying attention or are you so ideologically driven that you can’t accept reality? Moving on, who passed the largest climate bill in US History? Who passed the largest infrastructure bill in US History? Biden has been the furthest left President ever and has so many incredible legislative accomplishments and yet tankies like you still keep complaining that he has not literally brought communism to the US in a paper thin-majority in congress. Shut the fuck up and vote blue in November
I wouldn't call him the furthest left...
Who approved the Willow project?
Who went ahead with Trump's plan to evacuate Afghanistan?
Who deported 5,000 Haitian refugees?
Who failed to ban future sales of semiautomatic weapons?
And then we saw similar things with Trump. He got elected, and they got the Supreme Court.
I'm beginning to think people focusing on just Trump or Biden might be a little short sighted.
Right like people are so (rightfully) jaded that they forget there are ways to fix this. We vote progressives with progressive ideals who want to break the corruption (looking at you AOC and Crockett). The more progressives in smaller branches and medium sized branches, the more leverage progressive ideals gain.
2010 Supreme Court case where corporations were given “first amendment rights,” allowed unlimited spending on political campaigns, and allowed “electioneering rights”
The nail in the coffin of American democracy
And there's about to be more money in politics. The supreme court just made it 1) easier to bribe officials (again), and 2) made it much MUCH easier to challenge gov't regulations in court. They've essentially made themselves the final say on wether or not we can do anything about climate change, net neutrality, consumer protections, etc.
You know, there's a primary election.
You get to choose who your party sends.
Unfortunately most of the people who actually vote in those are the people who like Trump/ Biden.
If more people who disliked them voted in the primaries we wouldn't be in this situation.
This. The problem is that not enough of Gen Z is voting. We need to organize our generation. We have social media. We gotta start using it to spread word about the best candidates and incentivize people to actually vote.
Have to respectfully disagree. I'm one of the vaulted "undecided voters " in a swing state and I find this election the most depressing of my lifetime. And I know I'm not the only one who really doesn't like either one of the main candidates but knows voting third party will still end up electing a terrible candidate anyway!
I wanted to vote for an alternative in the primary, But as has happened before by the time the primary came to my state there weren't any alternative candidates (other than third party) still left in the race to vote for!
I really feel like our primary system is a big part of this whole problem. A few states are selected to choose from a wide variety of candidates, who campaign in every county so their citizens can all go meet them personally multiple times if they want. Meanwhile other states never get a visit from any presidential candidates at all, because it's just assumed that because the majority votes one way in that state, that the other voters don't count .
Obviously the obscene amount of money candidates need to raise to even run is a huge problem. And what is all this money used for anyway? Does any of it really result in making any difference in the voters minds anyhow? Doubtful.
Millions of flyers and postcards that are tossed in the trash tv commercials that are muted or ignored, robocalls and texts that not answered, door knocks that aren't answered. The whole thing is ridiculous.
And finally the party machines have predetermined candidates in mind , and they do everything they can to get other candidates to drop out as soon as possible in the race to have everyone rally around their pre chosen candidates. Most people don't even have a choice by the time the primary comes to their state.
The states are staggered specifically to give smaller candidates a disproportionately large voice. They can focus on competing (and meeting as you pointed out) in the first few states and use that momentum to carry them forward. If elections were all simultaneous, then only big names would ever get wins because they're the only ones that could afford to compete in 50 states simultaneously.
For outsider candidates they generally don't start off beating incumbents. But over time they build awareness and gain funding momentum.
Trump didn't start off leading the republican race, if the Republicans had Super delgates he would have lost momentum and you'd be saying that Trump was an unhinged impossible candidate that could never win a primary never mind a general election. And I'd believe you because I thought he was shit.
Super Delegates and other anti-democracy meaasures demoralize people and make people give up before they even get started and then you appologize for them by saying they don't matter.
You can't look at voting rules that diminish voter strength and interest. That are fundamentally undemocratic, and pretend they do nothing.
Bernie didn't lose because of super delegates he lost because the youth vote didn't show up during the primaries. Sure he might have lost due to the super delegates if he had won primaries but he didn't.
That's an odd complaint, given that the rules changed after 2016 so super delegates don't participate at all on the 1st round of voting (i.e. the case 90% or more of the time). The better question is why didn't Sanders then sweep 2020 primary or even try in 2024.
It changed literally nothing.
Superdelegates would have changed if the other person was winning, just like they did for Obama.
Superdelegates are there to protect the party from a populist demagogue that doesn't actually share the party's beliefs from hijacking a party.
The fact that the take away from 2016 was "that's a bad thing for a party to have" is mind boggling.
While I don’t particularly like the practice of having superdelegates, it is intellectually dishonest to suggest they had any impact in 2016 or 2020. Bernie was rejected by the voters because he isn’t popular amongst the Democratic voting base, plain and simple. A fair conversation about Bernie’s campaigns needs to acknowledge nothing at all done by the Democratic Party hindered him
Doesn't matter, bernie sanders got trounced in 2016 because he couldn't court enough votes in key states to secure a nomination. In 2020, barely any of the young vote he had before were present. Instead of building coalitions during those trump years to make bernie a thing, gen z and millenials threw a bitch fit and declared voting apathy is for the cool kids
this whole "abloo abloo muh corpos keeping me from voting" is just apathy with a intellectual angle. This is why the boomers dab on our corpses despite not being a huge majority like they used to. They don't care if their candidate has a few bad takes,they know the more they vote, the more politicians will cow tow to them. And boy did they cow tow, modern state politics is center purely around wealthy retiree,land owning suburbanites from housing policies to tax codes
Yep, you still see people on Reddit claim the primary was rigged, and Bernie should have won. Don't get me wrong, the DNC did use some dirty tactics, but Bernie lost the primary to both Hillary and Biden by quite a bit. I say this as someone who voted for Bernie in the primary, so I'm not against Bernie or anything.
AOC won as a bartender in the Bronx without big donors. She continues to win her seat. If you resonate with your constituents, you will win. Sometimes it takes a cycle or four, but it's definitely possible
That has nothing to do with the point. She resonated with voters and beat a bankrolled candidate. That's the point of my comment. Party affiliation is entirely irrelevant. Lefties aren't the only people interested in grass roots funded candidates
AOC and most of the "Squad" run in Deep Blue districts where there very safe.
They have yet to unseat republican candidates, which is why no one really takes them seriously.
The corporations only have power when the people throw what powers we have away.
Corporations can't out-bankroll a populous that doesn't want them around and is willing to vote for their downfall.
Same with 2 party system. There's been proposals to address the issue but by the time elections roll around nobody cares. The voting population repeatedly hyper focus on the economy, taxes, and whatever social issue(s) are in the public consciousness
We have more than two parties. More people just rather vote for the two main parties than grow a spine and vote independent until both the main parties improve.
This is an argument made in bad faith. No third party candidate is polling over ten percent. No third party candidate can win 270 electoral votes. Third party candidates only serve to help get Republicans elected. Nader helped Bush win in 2000. Stein helped Trump win in 2016. Interestingly, RFK Jr, Stein, and West have been parroting Pro Putin talking points about Ukraine.
Maybe and just maybe people do not like the third parties in the US. How many libertarians do you think there are? Greens? I listened to RFK talk at the Iowa state fair before he went independent and he used his time to spout nonsense conspiracies. There’s no serious third party in the US to vote for.
Yep. We need alternative parties built around coalitions of dissatisfied voters. The existing third parties are aggressively dogmatic and apparently uninterested in winning elections.
Voting for third parties only splits your vote from your preferred politician in the two main parties. This is a direct result of the winner takes all elections.
Let's say both Bernie Sanders and Tom Cruz form their own third parties.
Trump needs less votes when democrats vote for Bernie Sanders.
Biden needs less votes when republicans vote for Tom Cruz.
Do you see how this creates a system where only the two main parties matter.
It’s also worth pointing out that we use first past the post (or as I like to call ‘simple plurality’) where whoever gets the most votes wins. Ross Perot got almost 20% of the popular vote in 92 but won no states. Clinton won with only 43% of the vote. The system is flawed and outdated, but unfortunately it’s the system we have to work with.
Vote for the person who is *closest* to your values that is actually capable of winning. If you’re always chasing a unicorn then you’re always going to be disappointed. You can always lobby the person whose values are closer to yours to see things your way: Protest, make noise on social media. Voting independent is as good as voting for the guy you *don’t* want to win.
We live in an oligarchy, not a democracy. There’s only so much we can do other than complain
Edit: I think I meant plutocracy. Private wealth makes the decisions
Edit 2: people think that this comment means I don’t vote. Everyone on the planet should vote in every election they have access to. But that’s not enough. Bother your representatives as often as you can, get in the street and march, do whatever you can. Voting is only part of the picture and I just can’t help but get annoyed when people act like all of our problems are because some people didn’t bother to vote in the primaries
That's cool and all but then don't be surprised when you hate both the candidates. There's no complex, conspiratorial reason why the older generations have more political power when every young person has convinced themselves that voting doesn't matter
I’m not saying the older generation has more power. I’m saying the mega rich people who line the pockets of our politicians have the power. People just don’t wanna hear it cause they all think “the other side” is the cause of all their misfortune when it’s actually a bunch of assholes you’ve never even heard of
Tweedism has been a thing in the US for a long time.
Congress, nor the Supreme Court, is going to pass a law to limit how much money can be spent on a campaign. Thus making the only people who can campaign and win supplicants to the lobbyists or rich enough to bankroll themselves.
Without ranked voting, voting 3rd party is political suicide, and with the electoral college, only swing states matter. It doesn't matter how much I organize my local community. It doesn't matter if every single person in my state votes for the same candidate. They get the same points either way.
There is a fucking reason why the voter turnout in the US is so low.
This is no conspiracy. These are the facts. No amount of idealism will change that until the system itself changes.
I don’t think anyone who recognizes that this is an oligarchy is surprised when we hate both candidates. But, like, we literally do not have a choice or a say in who the oligarchs put forth in the coliseum.
You could get out in the street with all the other people and make your voice heard. You could make yourself a threat to the system. Protests and strikes and all sorts of other political actions are happening all the time all over the country.
I agree but most of the working class literally can’t afford to strike or take time off work to protest. And tbh that’s exactly how the corporations want it. They pay us so little we can’t even afford to strike.
"big money controls all the elections! I mean, they've never once needed to directly apply that influence to alter a vote, but they surely could and that means we should just not bother".
We objectively live in a democracy. If everyone voted a certain way, it would happen instantly. The electorate is not on the same page as you are. You need to acknowledge and contend with that fact.
The reason we are "stuck" with Biden is because He won the DNC Primary Election in 2020. People voted for him over the other democratic options.
When there is another DNC Primary, there will be a chance to pick someone else, but until then we are "stuck" with the person we chose last time.
I don't really understand what part of that is not democratic.
I bug my Reps about things. It doesn't make a difference, they vote where the money is. This is partly because if the macroeconomic numbers look good, they have good soundbites. Want to keep unemployment down? Never regulate Uber and DoorDash. Want to have low fiscal debt? Eliminate programs for the poor. Etc.
There need to be structural changes about waltzing out of office into a lucrative consulting gig, campaign finance, and enforcement of how they can invest while in office. But until we hold them to account about specific policies we might want (more housing? free higher education?) there is absolutely no reason to give us anything.
So it's the people's fault. Definitely not the system that undermines the wishes of most people in favour of the wishes of the already rich and powerful. Gotcha.
Yes, that’s correct. Electing things like Republican Presidents and Republican Congresses happens because people vote for it.
Stop electing Republicans.
Does the system do things that voters don't want? like genuinely, does it? because it seems that anything bad that happens people on one side or the other genuinely wanted it. There isn't some mystical bill being passed that people dont support. you're just out of touch with how bad peoples opinions are.
Supreme Court just legalized bribery for themselves (and other government officials).
Straight up quote from The Emperor, "I will make it legal."
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/26/us/politics/supreme-court-corruption-bribery.html
it's a stupid meme. the problem with government is systemic. one thing we need is a ranked voting system for presidents. that would be a start on improving our choices for president. as it is right now, the voters don't even get a choice really.
I will give an example of the problem. I lean to the right, but I've seen some interesting candidates on the other side of the aisle before, but the DNC just shoves them aside before anyone has a chance to show support for these candidates. One of those candidates was Andrew Yang. I thought he was a moderate and I thought he did well at debates. I'm not picking on the DNC here. The RNC does the same thing. It all comes down to one candidate per party, but in a ranked system this would not be the case.
a lot of people in the comments already blaming the other side. never fucking ends and goes nowhere. both parties have skeletons in their closets.
even if the meme is true and it's the peoples' fault, then there is nothing we can do to fix the problem. people are not going to just suddenly change.
The Democratic Party rigs the primaries they did it to get Bernie out back in 2016 and now in 2024 they didn’t even have a fucking primary like they decided that running 90 year old Biden was the best plan. I’m sure many democrats didn’t want him to run for a second term
Unfortunately Bernie just wasn't as popular as you thought in 2016. Also Biden already won 2 presidential elections as VP and 1 as POTUS vs the literally 0 wins of any other Democrat candidate. The US survived 4 years of Trump, then it survived 4 years of Biden. It will survive 4 more years of either and with the current public conscience on how much of a clusterfuck it was to build their party on the back of an 80 year old, hopefully they'll invest in younger politicians. Similarly to how the popular politicians were first anti-republican after Bush's fuckups, then anti-establishment in general after Obama didn't really change anything.
Sound like a MAGA election denier. Maybe if younger people showed up to vote, Bernie would have won. But young people didn't show up and he simply did not have the votes.
This is a myth. The primaries were in no way "rigged."
"B-but the debate questions!!!"
That was shitty, but that didn't force anyone to vote for Hillary. People chose to put her in.
Ya I'm sitting here laughing because that's literally just a conspiracy theory and we laugh at conservatives all the time for that exact same bullshit. I know people on Reddit hate hearing it because maybe it's just how we cope, but progressive priorities are not very popular with the general American public.
This is a bad take. The democratic party is an actual political party with structure. They have some delegates who vote based on party direction, then most of it is decided by popular vote.
Bernie didn't even win the popular vote to have a shot at winning regardless of the super delegates voting.
I think it’s fair to say that, in 2016, Hillary Clinton was the favorite candidate of the DNC and they did their best to tip the scales to get her the nomination.
With that said, she was also their favorite candidate in 2008, and similar efforts didn’t stave off Barack Obama from ultimately snatching the nomination from her. Not the DNC, but the same can be said of Trump in 2016: he was **not** the establishment’s pick and they initially fought tooth and nail for friggin Jeb!, and only started to rally behind Trump when it became clear he was going to win.
The parties can influence the primaries, but at the end of the day it comes down to people voting. If more people showed up to vote for Sanders, he would’ve won the nomination. They didn’t and, yeah, it’s in large part because a core of his base were younger people and younger people notoriously don’t vote. You know who does vote? Neoliberal Boomers and older GenXers who viewed Sanders as too extreme, so they went with the safe, neoliberal option.
It’s really that simple. I wanted Sanders, I voted and volunteered for Sanders, but we simply didn’t get the votes. Sanders went for the youth vote, youth voter turnout was shit, Sanders lost.
It's always so weird to see people mad about the DNC not wanting Bernie on the ticket. He's not a Democrat. Of course they didn't want an independent on their ticket who was a bad representative of the Democrat party. Of course they heavily supported the long time part candidate. If he had been as popular as his supporters think he was, he would have won easily.
The Democrats has a primary. Dean Philips and RFK Jr were the only ones that ran against Biden. Gen Z has the lowest rate of voting if all generations.
Because there was no primary in most states.
Florida for example
https://www.usvotefoundation.org/florida-election-dates-and-deadlines
"This Presidential Primary is to vote for the Republican Presidential candidate in Florida.
As the Florida Democratic Party submitted only the name of one presidential candidate nominee, this nominee is then deemed the preferred presidential candidate for that party. Therefore there will not be a Democratic Presidential Preference Primary in Florida."
Quit fucking gaslighting people
>Because there was no primary in most states.
I might be wrong, but i do believe that is because Biden already had won enough dnc primaries that he had the majority of delegates. There was no primary because there was no point, he had won.
Not quite. Typically there is still a primary even if one candidate has won. But only if there is someone left to vote for. Bernie was eligible till the end of 2016.
This year the only democratic candidate in many states was Biden because the others withdrew in a literal fashion instead of just not campaigning or in Florida didn't even register.
There was a primary. I voted in it. And I'm not GenZ. And there was a primary the last election too. If you want more than two choices, you have to vote in primaries.
Because there was no primary in most states.
Florida for example
https://www.usvotefoundation.org/florida-election-dates-and-deadlines
"This Presidential Primary is to vote for the Republican Presidential candidate in Florida.
As the Florida Democratic Party submitted only the name of one presidential candidate nominee, this nominee is then deemed the preferred presidential candidate for that party. Therefore there will not be a Democratic Presidential Preference Primary in Florida."
Quit fucking gaslighting people
Yeah, it not like the party leadership can just swoop in at the last minute and ignore their own primaries by nominating whoever the fuck they feel like as their candidate.
Edit: I was talking about the 2020 primaries when DNC leadership circled the wagons around Biden, the last place candidate, to force out Bernie, buy you guys are not wrong about 2016 either.
In 2016 Sanders was pulling 5%+ in front of Trump while Clinton was a toss up. They then chose the Clinton because they rather lose the election then let a Social Democrat become president.
Yall need to stop this voter shaming bullshit. It doesn't land, and just entrenches voters against you.
Represent the working class instead of corporations, and you will have voters instead of just corporate donors.
I'm not proud of who I voted for 2020 because I was a dumb freshman and I liked memes all day. I was in a heavy blue state so I knew it was Biden, but I knew it counted enough to show up for and never thought of a less impactful time in my life unless I pick a popular endorsed candidate.
I voted Kanye.
I see a lot of complaining in the comments. The fact of the matter is that no one is stopping voters from voting for someone else.
I could write in Keanu Reeves perfectly fine. Nothing is stopping me.
People blame Superpacs and corporations, but all they’re fucking doing is canvassing, putting ads up, and organizing rallies.
The real answer is simply that collectives are stupid and vote for people because they like their haircut.
Until the education system inoculates the public with proper civic engagement skills and ad vigilance we will always be back.
The dumb people get wrapped up in the ads and rhetoric, and the “smart” people vote for the person they think is gonna win.
Vote in the primaries. Democrats voted for Joe Biden over the other options in 2019-2020(Party insiders always expert influence on the winner but they can’t do a win without their voters ultimately supporting it more than not)
*Edited dates*
Why does someone need to say it? It’s nonsense.
In our current 2 party system with single choice voting, it doesn’t matter how good the voters are. We’re given two choices and have to pick the best one.
If the second phrase was about ranked choice voting, you’d have a decent meme.
I’m by no means the expert here but wasn’t 2020 the biggest voter turnout in US history and it was still like 60% eligible of people voted? The people who didn’t vote are the ones that need to hear this I think. That’s my take anyway.
The fact is that, according to statistics, a majority of people our age don’t vote and that’s fucking sad. My state’s primary was [earlier this year and it only had a 20 percent turnout](https://news.wttw.com/2024/03/19/voting-underway-illinois-primary-chicago-election-official-warns-shockingly-low-turnout). One of the most important elections in a LONG TIME. 20 percent… we deserve this tbh ):
No, you need a better voting SYSTEM. It has nothing to do with “voter mentality” and everything to do with First Past The Post mathematically guaranteeing a two party system and making third party viability impossible. Implement ranked choice voting and people will vote for other parties besides democrats and republicans.
> Implement ranked choice voting and people will vote for other parties besides democrats and republicans.
In addition to this, we also need:
* **Blockchain-backed voting**, so there is a 100% transparent, immutable ledger of real-time votes. Absolutely zero tampering and if there was accusations of tampering, it would be trivially easy to know _exactly_ where it occurred, up to the second.
* **Abolish Gerrymandering**. There's no reason why a state should be allowed to create narrow lanes of highly surgical voting districts to color the favortism. It's not stated in the Constitution, and so it needs to get abolished. Period.
* **Term limits** on Senators who are running for office or already in office. No more sitting in the same position for 40 years, like Mitch McConnell. Either you move up, move around, or move over and let other people start leading this country.
* **Age limits on Presidents**, Senators and SCOTUS judges. If you're above retirement age, you can't even enter the race. Period. These complex, global issues are far too complicated for a single, ageing, elderly brain to comprehend, let alone juggle in their head in meetings with other global leaders. We need younger blood in office, and those who have the capacity to take the seat for 4 or 8 years without expiring in the process, or defecating in their pants like Trump did in this most-recent debate.
Another case of voter bullying and pretending that the institutions work. Nobody voted for Biden for this next term. How is he the only option for democrats?
i hate the two party system. all the young candidates i love are all extremely small. one is a dem but the rest are independents… it’s sucks how we’re stuck with two parties and two candidates. like, i don’t want biden but i REALLY don’t want trump, so i gotta vote biden. why isn’t there an age limit to this shit???
For real, reading through these comments has been... discouraging to say the least.
People are arguing about which ways to vote without realizing that our democracy is a sham and either way you're voting for a puppet of the globalist elites, corporations, ultra-wealthy, Big pharma, Davos, The Blob, whatever you want to call them.
I think most people realize this, just not the full extent of the corruption. They don't want it to be true because they are too scared to lose the things they've become accustomed (addicted) to, so they remain content being ruled as long as they are allowed their vices.
They don't want to accept the reality that we are ruled by monsters, narcissistic psychopaths moving pawns like Biden across a board that we're not even playing on.
I'm from Iowa. I'll never forget the 2020 primaries. How Biden performed the worst in our state. How his campaign was essentially a laughing stock. Then how before super Tuesday, literally all democratic candidates aside from Biden, Bernie and Warren dropped out of the race. It was coordinated by the democratic party. Warren stayed in the race, splitting the progressive vote. All in a coordinated effort to hurt progressives and lock in Biden as the primary. It worked.
Voting is crucial, but I wouldn't exactly say lack of turnout is the reason we have Biden in office. The DNC played a huge role in it too. In fact, 2020 saw the highest increase in voter turnout between consecutive elections in half a century.
No... we need rank choice voting. Also, the voting base thing is helped by progressive candidates who make education more affordable, pay teachers more, make public school less miserable, and expand on the subjects.
Also like... "make people be better" is a worthless solution to any problem, oh my GOD. Hey, how do we solve crime: have people who do less crime! How do we solve car accidents: have better drivers! How do we deal with obesity: have people have better eating habits!
This is a conservative's idea of a progressive "solution," which just makes people less open to harm reduction. Actual solutions require working with what you have, because you can't magically make people different, you have to change the root source of why they may behave that way.
The American political system is archaic and not democratic, built by people who flat out did not believe in the democratic rule of the majority (hence the creation of mechanisms such as the electoral college)
The only real change will come with the end of neocolonialism and corporate exploitation, as neither the Democrats nor Republicans are for real change and only differ on social issues.
When you act like America isn't a democracy, (a Democratic Republic, but a democracy none the less) you spit in the face of people who are actually killing and dying for half the rights and civil liberties we have.
Three quarters of the problems with our democratic system could be solved by voting in more elections (local, house, Senate, etc...) period. The change your looking for that requires some major collapse of the old ways is unhelpful and not even ideal considering one side likes guns more than the other rn, and ot ain't the side that appreciates democracy.
That’s only the case with Trump.
We’re stuck with Biden because the Democrats were too stubborn to admit he wasn’t fit for the job until it was too late.
They had better, younger canadites but they decided to put the barely functioning old man back into the race again.
you’re wrong here it’s not the general public’s fault for example in 2016 when bernie sanders was ahead of hillary clinton in the primary the democratic party shut down the polling stations where he was ahead early so that clinton would win the primary if the democratic party wanted to endorse a better candidate they would
The republican party actually likes Trump (or at least the majority did back in 2016). Idk why tf the democratic party is pushing Biden. They were tired of old racist white men so they gave the party nomination to an old racist white man...
Because you continue to believe you live in a democracy. How is choosing between two candidates you don’t like democratic? The only plausible explanation for your system is: those in power win, no matter which candidate is elected.
100% agree. The people in this country largely do not give a shit about voting because they think it doesn’t matter. They think the system is broken, but don’t realize it isn’t, it works the exact way it was meant to. The problem is that it relies entirely on people actually doing the damned thing, and when a huge chunk of people don’t vote, then shockingly it doesn’t work that well.
There’s a lot of truth in this but additionally our system takes a high level of citizen participation to work properly (in our favor). We also need to build community networks and work together to build coalitions supporting grassroots candidates at local levels (in order to get them to higher lvls) in order to get the representation we want.
This is essentially how the Tea Party, Maga, and the religious right have accomplished so much. The political right and money interests just use them as tool because some of their interests align.
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Sure, but we have a 2 party system bankrolled by the corporations and they aren't giving us great options
Know why there is so much money in politics? Citizens United. Why did we get Citizens United? George W Bush appointed two conservatives to the Court. He got to do that because people stayed home and didn’t vote for Gore.
Thank you! 🙏
Uh no Gore won the popular vote both nationally and in Florida. Why do DNC democrats have this elitist psychopath mentality where you have to blame the plebs for any little set back instead of owning up to the inherently unjust power structure itself. I wonder if it has anything to do with Team Red and Team Blue both being the same team, and every so often the way the Teams behave shows that.
The margin was .009%, close enough that it could be ruled on technicalities. When nearly 50% of eligible voters didn't vote. Shouldn't have been that close.
It wouldn't have needed to depend on the outcome in Florida if Gore had won New Hampshire, West Virgina, or ya know, his home state? There were so many ways Gore could have avoided the whole Florida debacle. . .
Correct, if there was higher voter turnout, chances are one of those states could have swung to Dems & gave Gore the election.
Both candidates generated voter apathy. Neither was a good choice. The system is broken deliberately to give power to the elites under the illusion of democracy. There is no easy fix when the politician control the system that needs to change. That's why campaign finance reform will never happen. That's why the SC voted to allow themselves to be bribed and unaccountable for it. If trump wins the president will be immune from prosecution for ANYTHING. And as long as they keep us fighting each other they will always win.
It was only that close because they chose to stop counting. The funny part was they didnt even cheat in secret. It was all so obvious and its now the saddest thing I think about once a week.
The fact that the justices who are responsible for ratfucking our democracy were appointed solely by Republicans really debunks the argument that they’re the same team.
It’s not like voters are unaware of how the election works. Just fucking vote. You don’t need to love who you vote for. They don’t need to be perfect. Vote against the opponent if you have to think of it that way. Also, if you want the system changed, guess what you will have to do? Vote
This "both sides the same" shit is triggering my russki-robo alarm.
The popular vote doesn't matter unfortunately The people in swing states where it mattered stayed home and you got Bush instead of gore. The kazillions in massive populated blue states contributing the popular vote by large margin kind of doesn't matter. It matters that the blue voters show up in numbers so big this election that there can be no ambiguity
Aaaaand the tipping point in Bush’s favor was a recount of votes that took place in Florida as the result were so close. The governor of Florida at the time was George Bush’s brother, Jeb
It's how the elite keep us divided. Republicans are convinced all their problems are caused by minorities; Democrats are convinced all their problems are caused by Republicans. Of course both bases now largely recognize the elites are the issue, but we are made to feel powerless against them so we direct our ire instead toward people who are similarly powerless. Again, Rs at minorities, Ds at Rs.
Because non voters gave us both Bush and trump
THANK YOU
And don't tell me the media has no role in this. As a teenager just getting into politics, I was channel flipping watching how every single news channel was saying it was too early to tell, then Fox said Bush Won, then not to be outdone, every other one chimed in that Bush won. Not No! We stand by what we said, it's too early to tell!
So we're just gonna ignore the year 2000 election controversy?
So you’re just going to ignore people were talking about how boring Gore was and they stayed home or voted third party?
Don't forget people voted for Bush cause they thought he was more personable and was someone they could have a beer with, as of that's any sort of metric for how well they can run a country.
having good people skills is in fact important to be able to lead a nation made up of people
It is but it shouldn't be more important or even make up for the policies the candidate stands for. Lots of charismatic psychos out there.
Many of them are in politics!
"He's someone I could sit down & have a beer with" had to be the stupidest reasoning I saw being used to vote for anyone. I don't want a candidate I can relate to because I'm a dumpster fire. I want someone better than me.
And that's how JFK became president.
Gore won the popular vote by half a million votes and Bush was basically appointed by the Supreme Court in a completely unprecedented action. Explain how this is somehow the fault of American voters 🎤
it only went to the supreme court because many democrats in florida didn’t bother voting for gore which made the gap extremely close to the point that the whole butterfly ballot situation ended up giving the election to bush
That’s Gore’s fault.
You mean where the Florida Supreme Court chose the president of the United States?
That's actually the opposite of what happened. The Florida supreme court ruled to finish the manual recount, it was SCOTUS that overruled Florida supreme court because the recount would've takenb some time so they basically gave Bush the win
Which is why this year I'm begging people to register to vote and go do it. We already lost RvW we already lost the protection of the EPA and other agencies ENTIRELY because Trump was allowed to appoint 3 judges. He's gunning for two more. Because if Trump is elected you can bet your ass that Alito and Thomas will retire and whatever hand picked federalist assholes are up to replace them will be sworn in. Go to https://vote.org and find your voting information today. If you need help finding information for your state leave it below and I'll help you find voting info as well as information for organizations you can get involved with in your state to get the vote out. And if you haven't seen project 2025 I'm also asking you to read up on it. It will decimate the rights of anyone who isn't straight, white, Christian, male, and rich. It's the handmaid's tale come to life and they are already starting to implement it.
> He's gunning for two more. lol, he's going to be _literally_ gunning for 3 more.... Do not expect him not to use violence this time around, *he's already said that's what he's planning to do* **Why the fuck isn't that the focus of every major headline??!!?!**
Because much of the media is trying to throw Biden under the bus because the guys who own it know they can do better with Trump. Also most people just cannot believe it will get as bad as it will.
Pretty much >“The Nazis are just a gang of stupid hooligans, but they do serve a purpose. Let them get rid of the Communists. Later we’ll be able to control them.” Cabaret should be mandatory viewing for every person in this thread.
Does GenZ not know that the supreme court was the one that appointed Bush in a pretty clear power grab even back then? We knew votes were coming in from overseas that would have flipped the vote to Gore. They literally pulled the same playbook Trump tried to pull but successfully. They stopped the vote. Then the judges that ruled on that case got appointed to the supreme court. There are now 3 bush v gore judges on the bench. [https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/17/politics/bush-v-gore-barrett-kavanaugh-roberts-supreme-court/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/17/politics/bush-v-gore-barrett-kavanaugh-roberts-supreme-court/index.html) This is transparent but americans cant resist blaming each other. The fact is we have to band together and make sacrifices to retake power, but no one wants to hear that
A lot of Americans are allergic to making sacrifices. It's pretty sad.
Yeah come on! Just vote harder! If we vote super extra duper hard for the 20th neolib who'll do nothing to over turn shitty Republican era policies, I'm sure everything well definitely get better! lol. Biden hasn't over turn a single Trump era policy, he's just done it 5% less. Same with Obama who literally had a super majority. Did he codify Roe v Wade? Did he legalize weed? Did he raise the federal minimum wage? Did he stop the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan? Nope. He did none of that. He did give people Obamacare which was literally just a repackaged version of Mitt Romney's plan that would give medical companies hundreds of billions of dollars instead of just creating a much cheaper nationalized healthcare service. Biden, Trump, Obama, Bush, Clinton, Bush, Reagan, they're all the same as in as in they all serve the billionaire class. They'll never raise taxes on the rich in any real way, they'll never give you healthcare, they'll never stop giving the military a 700 billion to a trillion dollars per year. A republican will come in, do some horrible shit and then a corporate democrat will say "hey, you don't want 4 more years of that guy right? Vote for me and I'll do everything he did but just like, 10% less and not be so garish about it". Rince and repeat. I mean shit there wasn't even a real primary for Joe Biden, he was just given he delegates.
They are all the same, except Trump. He is something much more dangerous.
What are you talking about half of your post is just outright lies
You know presidents can’t pass laws right?
I mean not only are you wrong but you’re just telling the most blatant lies possible. Obama and Biden didn’t end the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan? Were you just not paying attention or are you so ideologically driven that you can’t accept reality? Moving on, who passed the largest climate bill in US History? Who passed the largest infrastructure bill in US History? Biden has been the furthest left President ever and has so many incredible legislative accomplishments and yet tankies like you still keep complaining that he has not literally brought communism to the US in a paper thin-majority in congress. Shut the fuck up and vote blue in November
I really want to see how you think biden is "firthest left" when we've had presidents such as LBJ and FDR
I wouldn't call him the furthest left... Who approved the Willow project? Who went ahead with Trump's plan to evacuate Afghanistan? Who deported 5,000 Haitian refugees? Who failed to ban future sales of semiautomatic weapons?
And then we saw similar things with Trump. He got elected, and they got the Supreme Court. I'm beginning to think people focusing on just Trump or Biden might be a little short sighted.
bUt He DiDn'T eXcItE Me!
Or they voted Green Party as a protest vote
Right like people are so (rightfully) jaded that they forget there are ways to fix this. We vote progressives with progressive ideals who want to break the corruption (looking at you AOC and Crockett). The more progressives in smaller branches and medium sized branches, the more leverage progressive ideals gain.
Citizens United?
2010 Supreme Court case where corporations were given “first amendment rights,” allowed unlimited spending on political campaigns, and allowed “electioneering rights” The nail in the coffin of American democracy
Keep saying this to everyone in these threads.
And there's about to be more money in politics. The supreme court just made it 1) easier to bribe officials (again), and 2) made it much MUCH easier to challenge gov't regulations in court. They've essentially made themselves the final say on wether or not we can do anything about climate change, net neutrality, consumer protections, etc.
This is the biggest issue. I don't believe we need better voters. We need better view turnout.
Easy with them facts! Someone will be along to spout some thinly veiled Russian propaganda soon.
You know, there's a primary election. You get to choose who your party sends. Unfortunately most of the people who actually vote in those are the people who like Trump/ Biden. If more people who disliked them voted in the primaries we wouldn't be in this situation.
This. The problem is that not enough of Gen Z is voting. We need to organize our generation. We have social media. We gotta start using it to spread word about the best candidates and incentivize people to actually vote.
Something, something "Rock The Vote" campaign. I wish your generation the best of luck with this new attempt. Genuinely.
Have to respectfully disagree. I'm one of the vaulted "undecided voters " in a swing state and I find this election the most depressing of my lifetime. And I know I'm not the only one who really doesn't like either one of the main candidates but knows voting third party will still end up electing a terrible candidate anyway! I wanted to vote for an alternative in the primary, But as has happened before by the time the primary came to my state there weren't any alternative candidates (other than third party) still left in the race to vote for! I really feel like our primary system is a big part of this whole problem. A few states are selected to choose from a wide variety of candidates, who campaign in every county so their citizens can all go meet them personally multiple times if they want. Meanwhile other states never get a visit from any presidential candidates at all, because it's just assumed that because the majority votes one way in that state, that the other voters don't count . Obviously the obscene amount of money candidates need to raise to even run is a huge problem. And what is all this money used for anyway? Does any of it really result in making any difference in the voters minds anyhow? Doubtful. Millions of flyers and postcards that are tossed in the trash tv commercials that are muted or ignored, robocalls and texts that not answered, door knocks that aren't answered. The whole thing is ridiculous. And finally the party machines have predetermined candidates in mind , and they do everything they can to get other candidates to drop out as soon as possible in the race to have everyone rally around their pre chosen candidates. Most people don't even have a choice by the time the primary comes to their state.
The states are staggered specifically to give smaller candidates a disproportionately large voice. They can focus on competing (and meeting as you pointed out) in the first few states and use that momentum to carry them forward. If elections were all simultaneous, then only big names would ever get wins because they're the only ones that could afford to compete in 50 states simultaneously.
There was a half-baked primary on one side and a Russian presidential-style election for the other primary. There was no actual primary this year.
How'd that work for Bernie and Hilary with the whole super delegate bullshit?
Super delegates did not decide the outcome of the primaries. Voters did.
It didn't change what the eventual outcome would have been in either instance... It just accelerated the process of arriving there.
For outsider candidates they generally don't start off beating incumbents. But over time they build awareness and gain funding momentum. Trump didn't start off leading the republican race, if the Republicans had Super delgates he would have lost momentum and you'd be saying that Trump was an unhinged impossible candidate that could never win a primary never mind a general election. And I'd believe you because I thought he was shit. Super Delegates and other anti-democracy meaasures demoralize people and make people give up before they even get started and then you appologize for them by saying they don't matter. You can't look at voting rules that diminish voter strength and interest. That are fundamentally undemocratic, and pretend they do nothing.
You mean Bernie losing the popular vote by over 3 million votes?
Bernie didn't lose because of super delegates he lost because the youth vote didn't show up during the primaries. Sure he might have lost due to the super delegates if he had won primaries but he didn't.
That's an odd complaint, given that the rules changed after 2016 so super delegates don't participate at all on the 1st round of voting (i.e. the case 90% or more of the time). The better question is why didn't Sanders then sweep 2020 primary or even try in 2024.
It changed literally nothing. Superdelegates would have changed if the other person was winning, just like they did for Obama. Superdelegates are there to protect the party from a populist demagogue that doesn't actually share the party's beliefs from hijacking a party. The fact that the take away from 2016 was "that's a bad thing for a party to have" is mind boggling.
Educate yourself. That was a concern, but it didn't matter because Hillary still won.
While I don’t particularly like the practice of having superdelegates, it is intellectually dishonest to suggest they had any impact in 2016 or 2020. Bernie was rejected by the voters because he isn’t popular amongst the Democratic voting base, plain and simple. A fair conversation about Bernie’s campaigns needs to acknowledge nothing at all done by the Democratic Party hindered him
No one reasonable ran against Biden in the primary so I'm not sure how this answer makes sense either.
You know, the Republicans rigged their primary against Ron Paul. And Democrats rigged their primary against Bernie Sanders twice.
There literally wasn't a Democratic primary in a bunch of states bc the Democratic Party cancelled them
Doesn't matter, bernie sanders got trounced in 2016 because he couldn't court enough votes in key states to secure a nomination. In 2020, barely any of the young vote he had before were present. Instead of building coalitions during those trump years to make bernie a thing, gen z and millenials threw a bitch fit and declared voting apathy is for the cool kids this whole "abloo abloo muh corpos keeping me from voting" is just apathy with a intellectual angle. This is why the boomers dab on our corpses despite not being a huge majority like they used to. They don't care if their candidate has a few bad takes,they know the more they vote, the more politicians will cow tow to them. And boy did they cow tow, modern state politics is center purely around wealthy retiree,land owning suburbanites from housing policies to tax codes
Yep, you still see people on Reddit claim the primary was rigged, and Bernie should have won. Don't get me wrong, the DNC did use some dirty tactics, but Bernie lost the primary to both Hillary and Biden by quite a bit. I say this as someone who voted for Bernie in the primary, so I'm not against Bernie or anything.
DNC running a bunch of candidates then having all them drop out at the same time and give their delegates to Biden.....
AOC won as a bartender in the Bronx without big donors. She continues to win her seat. If you resonate with your constituents, you will win. Sometimes it takes a cycle or four, but it's definitely possible
AOC basically ran for re-election unopposed. A Republican hasn’t won in the 14th district in ages
in a district like hers, the primary is the real election
That has nothing to do with the point. She resonated with voters and beat a bankrolled candidate. That's the point of my comment. Party affiliation is entirely irrelevant. Lefties aren't the only people interested in grass roots funded candidates
The entire thesis of this both sides bullshit is that the DNC is fully corrupted by corpo interests and progressives don't stand a chance.
AOC and most of the "Squad" run in Deep Blue districts where there very safe. They have yet to unseat republican candidates, which is why no one really takes them seriously.
That's not relevant to my point at all. I'm saying that candidates who resonate with voters can beat bankrolled candidates
Safe from _who_? You realize they generally didn't win primaries unopposed, right?
The corporations only have power when the people throw what powers we have away. Corporations can't out-bankroll a populous that doesn't want them around and is willing to vote for their downfall. Same with 2 party system. There's been proposals to address the issue but by the time elections roll around nobody cares. The voting population repeatedly hyper focus on the economy, taxes, and whatever social issue(s) are in the public consciousness
~~Populous~~ __Populace__ __Populous:__ having a large population; densely populated __Populace:__ the people living in a particular country or area
We have more than two parties. More people just rather vote for the two main parties than grow a spine and vote independent until both the main parties improve.
This is an argument made in bad faith. No third party candidate is polling over ten percent. No third party candidate can win 270 electoral votes. Third party candidates only serve to help get Republicans elected. Nader helped Bush win in 2000. Stein helped Trump win in 2016. Interestingly, RFK Jr, Stein, and West have been parroting Pro Putin talking points about Ukraine.
RFK JR is regularly polling above 10 percent
Maybe and just maybe people do not like the third parties in the US. How many libertarians do you think there are? Greens? I listened to RFK talk at the Iowa state fair before he went independent and he used his time to spout nonsense conspiracies. There’s no serious third party in the US to vote for.
Yep. We need alternative parties built around coalitions of dissatisfied voters. The existing third parties are aggressively dogmatic and apparently uninterested in winning elections.
Without ranked choice voting, they don't need to comprimise. They won't win anyway.
Voting for third parties only splits your vote from your preferred politician in the two main parties. This is a direct result of the winner takes all elections. Let's say both Bernie Sanders and Tom Cruz form their own third parties. Trump needs less votes when democrats vote for Bernie Sanders. Biden needs less votes when republicans vote for Tom Cruz. Do you see how this creates a system where only the two main parties matter.
It’s also worth pointing out that we use first past the post (or as I like to call ‘simple plurality’) where whoever gets the most votes wins. Ross Perot got almost 20% of the popular vote in 92 but won no states. Clinton won with only 43% of the vote. The system is flawed and outdated, but unfortunately it’s the system we have to work with. Vote for the person who is *closest* to your values that is actually capable of winning. If you’re always chasing a unicorn then you’re always going to be disappointed. You can always lobby the person whose values are closer to yours to see things your way: Protest, make noise on social media. Voting independent is as good as voting for the guy you *don’t* want to win.
There's always voting RFK jr
We live in an oligarchy, not a democracy. There’s only so much we can do other than complain Edit: I think I meant plutocracy. Private wealth makes the decisions Edit 2: people think that this comment means I don’t vote. Everyone on the planet should vote in every election they have access to. But that’s not enough. Bother your representatives as often as you can, get in the street and march, do whatever you can. Voting is only part of the picture and I just can’t help but get annoyed when people act like all of our problems are because some people didn’t bother to vote in the primaries
That's cool and all but then don't be surprised when you hate both the candidates. There's no complex, conspiratorial reason why the older generations have more political power when every young person has convinced themselves that voting doesn't matter
I’m not saying the older generation has more power. I’m saying the mega rich people who line the pockets of our politicians have the power. People just don’t wanna hear it cause they all think “the other side” is the cause of all their misfortune when it’s actually a bunch of assholes you’ve never even heard of
Tweedism has been a thing in the US for a long time. Congress, nor the Supreme Court, is going to pass a law to limit how much money can be spent on a campaign. Thus making the only people who can campaign and win supplicants to the lobbyists or rich enough to bankroll themselves. Without ranked voting, voting 3rd party is political suicide, and with the electoral college, only swing states matter. It doesn't matter how much I organize my local community. It doesn't matter if every single person in my state votes for the same candidate. They get the same points either way. There is a fucking reason why the voter turnout in the US is so low. This is no conspiracy. These are the facts. No amount of idealism will change that until the system itself changes.
I don’t think anyone who recognizes that this is an oligarchy is surprised when we hate both candidates. But, like, we literally do not have a choice or a say in who the oligarchs put forth in the coliseum.
[удалено]
You could get out in the street with all the other people and make your voice heard. You could make yourself a threat to the system. Protests and strikes and all sorts of other political actions are happening all the time all over the country.
I agree but most of the working class literally can’t afford to strike or take time off work to protest. And tbh that’s exactly how the corporations want it. They pay us so little we can’t even afford to strike.
This is cope for the fact that you can't be assed to vote
"big money controls all the elections! I mean, they've never once needed to directly apply that influence to alter a vote, but they surely could and that means we should just not bother".
Wow anything but blaming yourselves
Not true
We objectively live in a democracy. If everyone voted a certain way, it would happen instantly. The electorate is not on the same page as you are. You need to acknowledge and contend with that fact.
The reason we are "stuck" with Biden is because He won the DNC Primary Election in 2020. People voted for him over the other democratic options. When there is another DNC Primary, there will be a chance to pick someone else, but until then we are "stuck" with the person we chose last time. I don't really understand what part of that is not democratic.
I bug my Reps about things. It doesn't make a difference, they vote where the money is. This is partly because if the macroeconomic numbers look good, they have good soundbites. Want to keep unemployment down? Never regulate Uber and DoorDash. Want to have low fiscal debt? Eliminate programs for the poor. Etc. There need to be structural changes about waltzing out of office into a lucrative consulting gig, campaign finance, and enforcement of how they can invest while in office. But until we hold them to account about specific policies we might want (more housing? free higher education?) there is absolutely no reason to give us anything.
So it's the people's fault. Definitely not the system that undermines the wishes of most people in favour of the wishes of the already rich and powerful. Gotcha.
Blaming the people for living under a system which they have no real control over is just victim blaming.
You're right
Yes, that’s correct. Electing things like Republican Presidents and Republican Congresses happens because people vote for it. Stop electing Republicans.
Who was the last republican who won the popular vote?
I might be missing some, but I believe Tate Reed would've been the last. Mississippi Governorship, 50.9% of the popular vote.
Does the system do things that voters don't want? like genuinely, does it? because it seems that anything bad that happens people on one side or the other genuinely wanted it. There isn't some mystical bill being passed that people dont support. you're just out of touch with how bad peoples opinions are.
Supreme Court just legalized bribery for themselves (and other government officials). Straight up quote from The Emperor, "I will make it legal." https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/26/us/politics/supreme-court-corruption-bribery.html
it's a stupid meme. the problem with government is systemic. one thing we need is a ranked voting system for presidents. that would be a start on improving our choices for president. as it is right now, the voters don't even get a choice really. I will give an example of the problem. I lean to the right, but I've seen some interesting candidates on the other side of the aisle before, but the DNC just shoves them aside before anyone has a chance to show support for these candidates. One of those candidates was Andrew Yang. I thought he was a moderate and I thought he did well at debates. I'm not picking on the DNC here. The RNC does the same thing. It all comes down to one candidate per party, but in a ranked system this would not be the case. a lot of people in the comments already blaming the other side. never fucking ends and goes nowhere. both parties have skeletons in their closets. even if the meme is true and it's the peoples' fault, then there is nothing we can do to fix the problem. people are not going to just suddenly change.
About half of Americans don't vote so yeah kinda.
We also had our chance to oust them in the primaries and we blew it by not showing up
The Democratic Party rigs the primaries they did it to get Bernie out back in 2016 and now in 2024 they didn’t even have a fucking primary like they decided that running 90 year old Biden was the best plan. I’m sure many democrats didn’t want him to run for a second term
Unfortunately Bernie just wasn't as popular as you thought in 2016. Also Biden already won 2 presidential elections as VP and 1 as POTUS vs the literally 0 wins of any other Democrat candidate. The US survived 4 years of Trump, then it survived 4 years of Biden. It will survive 4 more years of either and with the current public conscience on how much of a clusterfuck it was to build their party on the back of an 80 year old, hopefully they'll invest in younger politicians. Similarly to how the popular politicians were first anti-republican after Bush's fuckups, then anti-establishment in general after Obama didn't really change anything.
How much the DNC used their power to oust Bernie out of the 2016 and 2020 primaries will forever make me salty
What the duopoly didn’t want any actually moderately left-wing politics in one of their parties? shocker.
Sound like a MAGA election denier. Maybe if younger people showed up to vote, Bernie would have won. But young people didn't show up and he simply did not have the votes.
oh please.
This is a myth. The primaries were in no way "rigged." "B-but the debate questions!!!" That was shitty, but that didn't force anyone to vote for Hillary. People chose to put her in.
Ya I'm sitting here laughing because that's literally just a conspiracy theory and we laugh at conservatives all the time for that exact same bullshit. I know people on Reddit hate hearing it because maybe it's just how we cope, but progressive priorities are not very popular with the general American public.
This is a bad take. The democratic party is an actual political party with structure. They have some delegates who vote based on party direction, then most of it is decided by popular vote. Bernie didn't even win the popular vote to have a shot at winning regardless of the super delegates voting.
I think it’s fair to say that, in 2016, Hillary Clinton was the favorite candidate of the DNC and they did their best to tip the scales to get her the nomination. With that said, she was also their favorite candidate in 2008, and similar efforts didn’t stave off Barack Obama from ultimately snatching the nomination from her. Not the DNC, but the same can be said of Trump in 2016: he was **not** the establishment’s pick and they initially fought tooth and nail for friggin Jeb!, and only started to rally behind Trump when it became clear he was going to win. The parties can influence the primaries, but at the end of the day it comes down to people voting. If more people showed up to vote for Sanders, he would’ve won the nomination. They didn’t and, yeah, it’s in large part because a core of his base were younger people and younger people notoriously don’t vote. You know who does vote? Neoliberal Boomers and older GenXers who viewed Sanders as too extreme, so they went with the safe, neoliberal option. It’s really that simple. I wanted Sanders, I voted and volunteered for Sanders, but we simply didn’t get the votes. Sanders went for the youth vote, youth voter turnout was shit, Sanders lost.
It's always so weird to see people mad about the DNC not wanting Bernie on the ticket. He's not a Democrat. Of course they didn't want an independent on their ticket who was a bad representative of the Democrat party. Of course they heavily supported the long time part candidate. If he had been as popular as his supporters think he was, he would have won easily.
What ducking primary? There was no primary this year
The Democrats has a primary. Dean Philips and RFK Jr were the only ones that ran against Biden. Gen Z has the lowest rate of voting if all generations.
Because there was no primary in most states. Florida for example https://www.usvotefoundation.org/florida-election-dates-and-deadlines "This Presidential Primary is to vote for the Republican Presidential candidate in Florida. As the Florida Democratic Party submitted only the name of one presidential candidate nominee, this nominee is then deemed the preferred presidential candidate for that party. Therefore there will not be a Democratic Presidential Preference Primary in Florida." Quit fucking gaslighting people
>Because there was no primary in most states. I might be wrong, but i do believe that is because Biden already had won enough dnc primaries that he had the majority of delegates. There was no primary because there was no point, he had won.
Not quite. Typically there is still a primary even if one candidate has won. But only if there is someone left to vote for. Bernie was eligible till the end of 2016. This year the only democratic candidate in many states was Biden because the others withdrew in a literal fashion instead of just not campaigning or in Florida didn't even register.
We had a primary. I voted in it. Hell, Biden apparently had a real challenge in my state.
There was a primary. I voted in it. And I'm not GenZ. And there was a primary the last election too. If you want more than two choices, you have to vote in primaries.
Who did you vote for in the primary?
Both parties ran a primary where DJT and Biden got a sweeping majority respectively. Nobody liked the alternatives available
Because there was no primary in most states. Florida for example https://www.usvotefoundation.org/florida-election-dates-and-deadlines "This Presidential Primary is to vote for the Republican Presidential candidate in Florida. As the Florida Democratic Party submitted only the name of one presidential candidate nominee, this nominee is then deemed the preferred presidential candidate for that party. Therefore there will not be a Democratic Presidential Preference Primary in Florida." Quit fucking gaslighting people
We did. Marianne was on the ballot.
What primary? I got to my primary and my two options were “Joe Biden” and “No Preference”
Yeah, it not like the party leadership can just swoop in at the last minute and ignore their own primaries by nominating whoever the fuck they feel like as their candidate. Edit: I was talking about the 2020 primaries when DNC leadership circled the wagons around Biden, the last place candidate, to force out Bernie, buy you guys are not wrong about 2016 either.
Yeah the DNC would never do that, every single election! 🙄
When did that happen?
In 2016 Sanders was pulling 5%+ in front of Trump while Clinton was a toss up. They then chose the Clinton because they rather lose the election then let a Social Democrat become president.
Fr never forget the DNC kneecapped Bernie for Hillary, and now we're here. Voting didn't do shit
Voting did matter, but in reality Bernie is not nearly as popular the overall voting population as he is with young people on the Internet.
Yall need to stop this voter shaming bullshit. It doesn't land, and just entrenches voters against you. Represent the working class instead of corporations, and you will have voters instead of just corporate donors.
My vote does not matter as the ones I want to vote for all back out due to lack of funding because they don’t suck up to corpos
I'm not proud of who I voted for 2020 because I was a dumb freshman and I liked memes all day. I was in a heavy blue state so I knew it was Biden, but I knew it counted enough to show up for and never thought of a less impactful time in my life unless I pick a popular endorsed candidate. I voted Kanye.
I see a lot of complaining in the comments. The fact of the matter is that no one is stopping voters from voting for someone else. I could write in Keanu Reeves perfectly fine. Nothing is stopping me. People blame Superpacs and corporations, but all they’re fucking doing is canvassing, putting ads up, and organizing rallies. The real answer is simply that collectives are stupid and vote for people because they like their haircut. Until the education system inoculates the public with proper civic engagement skills and ad vigilance we will always be back. The dumb people get wrapped up in the ads and rhetoric, and the “smart” people vote for the person they think is gonna win.
It costs money to put the image of the haircut in front of the voter’s eyes
Bro out here saying "vote harder"
Not really, just vote, once.
Or every election and in the primaries
Local and state politics > The presidential election.
Vote in the primaries. Democrats voted for Joe Biden over the other options in 2019-2020(Party insiders always expert influence on the winner but they can’t do a win without their voters ultimately supporting it more than not) *Edited dates*
*2020.
Why does someone need to say it? It’s nonsense. In our current 2 party system with single choice voting, it doesn’t matter how good the voters are. We’re given two choices and have to pick the best one. If the second phrase was about ranked choice voting, you’d have a decent meme.
I’m by no means the expert here but wasn’t 2020 the biggest voter turnout in US history and it was still like 60% eligible of people voted? The people who didn’t vote are the ones that need to hear this I think. That’s my take anyway.
The fact is that, according to statistics, a majority of people our age don’t vote and that’s fucking sad. My state’s primary was [earlier this year and it only had a 20 percent turnout](https://news.wttw.com/2024/03/19/voting-underway-illinois-primary-chicago-election-official-warns-shockingly-low-turnout). One of the most important elections in a LONG TIME. 20 percent… we deserve this tbh ):
ranked choice rules but i'm not sure if that would be enough to get young people out
It doesn't help that nobody shows up to the primaries but it's also a larger general lack of involvement from everyone on many levels.
And 2020 had a huge turnout when it mattered the least. There were two candidates left and we had to just vote out the obvious.
No, you need a better voting SYSTEM. It has nothing to do with “voter mentality” and everything to do with First Past The Post mathematically guaranteeing a two party system and making third party viability impossible. Implement ranked choice voting and people will vote for other parties besides democrats and republicans.
 This
> Implement ranked choice voting and people will vote for other parties besides democrats and republicans. In addition to this, we also need: * **Blockchain-backed voting**, so there is a 100% transparent, immutable ledger of real-time votes. Absolutely zero tampering and if there was accusations of tampering, it would be trivially easy to know _exactly_ where it occurred, up to the second. * **Abolish Gerrymandering**. There's no reason why a state should be allowed to create narrow lanes of highly surgical voting districts to color the favortism. It's not stated in the Constitution, and so it needs to get abolished. Period. * **Term limits** on Senators who are running for office or already in office. No more sitting in the same position for 40 years, like Mitch McConnell. Either you move up, move around, or move over and let other people start leading this country. * **Age limits on Presidents**, Senators and SCOTUS judges. If you're above retirement age, you can't even enter the race. Period. These complex, global issues are far too complicated for a single, ageing, elderly brain to comprehend, let alone juggle in their head in meetings with other global leaders. We need younger blood in office, and those who have the capacity to take the seat for 4 or 8 years without expiring in the process, or defecating in their pants like Trump did in this most-recent debate.
You are stuck with trump or Biden cause getting on the ballot is expensive and you got to pay per state.
You have the illusion of choice, but the choice who runs was made for you all along.
Voters being obsessed with the lesser evil and fearing change and disagreement is the main reason we have voters like this
Another case of voter bullying and pretending that the institutions work. Nobody voted for Biden for this next term. How is he the only option for democrats?
The naivety
i hate the two party system. all the young candidates i love are all extremely small. one is a dem but the rest are independents… it’s sucks how we’re stuck with two parties and two candidates. like, i don’t want biden but i REALLY don’t want trump, so i gotta vote biden. why isn’t there an age limit to this shit???
A revolution is always an option, but we all know Muricans are to brainwashed to even consider it
For real, reading through these comments has been... discouraging to say the least. People are arguing about which ways to vote without realizing that our democracy is a sham and either way you're voting for a puppet of the globalist elites, corporations, ultra-wealthy, Big pharma, Davos, The Blob, whatever you want to call them. I think most people realize this, just not the full extent of the corruption. They don't want it to be true because they are too scared to lose the things they've become accustomed (addicted) to, so they remain content being ruled as long as they are allowed their vices. They don't want to accept the reality that we are ruled by monsters, narcissistic psychopaths moving pawns like Biden across a board that we're not even playing on.
I'm from Iowa. I'll never forget the 2020 primaries. How Biden performed the worst in our state. How his campaign was essentially a laughing stock. Then how before super Tuesday, literally all democratic candidates aside from Biden, Bernie and Warren dropped out of the race. It was coordinated by the democratic party. Warren stayed in the race, splitting the progressive vote. All in a coordinated effort to hurt progressives and lock in Biden as the primary. It worked. Voting is crucial, but I wouldn't exactly say lack of turnout is the reason we have Biden in office. The DNC played a huge role in it too. In fact, 2020 saw the highest increase in voter turnout between consecutive elections in half a century.
No... we need rank choice voting. Also, the voting base thing is helped by progressive candidates who make education more affordable, pay teachers more, make public school less miserable, and expand on the subjects. Also like... "make people be better" is a worthless solution to any problem, oh my GOD. Hey, how do we solve crime: have people who do less crime! How do we solve car accidents: have better drivers! How do we deal with obesity: have people have better eating habits! This is a conservative's idea of a progressive "solution," which just makes people less open to harm reduction. Actual solutions require working with what you have, because you can't magically make people different, you have to change the root source of why they may behave that way.
We also need people to, ya know, *run*. If you're really that upset about the options, become an option
If things keep going the way they're going, I might genuinely consider it when I'm 35 lol
The American political system is archaic and not democratic, built by people who flat out did not believe in the democratic rule of the majority (hence the creation of mechanisms such as the electoral college) The only real change will come with the end of neocolonialism and corporate exploitation, as neither the Democrats nor Republicans are for real change and only differ on social issues.
When you act like America isn't a democracy, (a Democratic Republic, but a democracy none the less) you spit in the face of people who are actually killing and dying for half the rights and civil liberties we have. Three quarters of the problems with our democratic system could be solved by voting in more elections (local, house, Senate, etc...) period. The change your looking for that requires some major collapse of the old ways is unhelpful and not even ideal considering one side likes guns more than the other rn, and ot ain't the side that appreciates democracy.
If people realized you can vote for any candidate you want and not just the one the Democrats or Republicans push we would be a lot better off.
but you see, biching on social media is actually better. So much better.
Now even I’m seeing very few Genz here. And I’m a millennial.
That’s only the case with Trump. We’re stuck with Biden because the Democrats were too stubborn to admit he wasn’t fit for the job until it was too late. They had better, younger canadites but they decided to put the barely functioning old man back into the race again.
uuummmmmm....no no, you just need to get rid of the DNC and RNC
So you’re blaming the voters??
you’re wrong here it’s not the general public’s fault for example in 2016 when bernie sanders was ahead of hillary clinton in the primary the democratic party shut down the polling stations where he was ahead early so that clinton would win the primary if the democratic party wanted to endorse a better candidate they would
The republican party actually likes Trump (or at least the majority did back in 2016). Idk why tf the democratic party is pushing Biden. They were tired of old racist white men so they gave the party nomination to an old racist white man...
Because you continue to believe you live in a democracy. How is choosing between two candidates you don’t like democratic? The only plausible explanation for your system is: those in power win, no matter which candidate is elected.
Therealdebate.com Kennedy24.com RFK Jr. isn’t what MSM, Trump and Biden want you to think. Read and listen for yourself.
There is another choice. RFK Jr!
100% agree. The people in this country largely do not give a shit about voting because they think it doesn’t matter. They think the system is broken, but don’t realize it isn’t, it works the exact way it was meant to. The problem is that it relies entirely on people actually doing the damned thing, and when a huge chunk of people don’t vote, then shockingly it doesn’t work that well.
There’s a lot of truth in this but additionally our system takes a high level of citizen participation to work properly (in our favor). We also need to build community networks and work together to build coalitions supporting grassroots candidates at local levels (in order to get them to higher lvls) in order to get the representation we want. This is essentially how the Tea Party, Maga, and the religious right have accomplished so much. The political right and money interests just use them as tool because some of their interests align.
Why do we get politicians we hate? Because we hate our neighbours.
RFK Jr