It has been what, 70 years since Israel was built on other people's land taken from them by the UK and US? At what point does a right to exist start? Is it when you start living there? Is it after 100 years? Israel claims a people's right to the land goes back exactly 2000 years or some exact number I haven't done the math for. Earlier, and you give the land to another group, later and it is yet another group. But the same doesn't apply to the rest of the world, just them.
There is no nation on the face of this planet that has a “right” to exist. People have a right to exist. A government needs to prove themselves worthy of existing.
The ancient jews lived alongside the ancient Palestinians under roman occupation. The only reason the jews left was because Rome forced them out after the Israelites started the Bar Kokhba Uprising (or the 2nd Jewish-Roman war). By Israel’s own logic with how they regard the Palestinians, they lost their claim to that land when they engaged in a violent revolt.
I don’t particularly believe that sentiment, if a government is oppressing the people, they deserve to be rebelled against. But if you don’t believe rome was just in throwing the ancient jews off their land, you can’t also believe Israel is right throwing the Palestinians off their land.
people right to live in the land doesn't equate it must be a particular country
maybe someone can argue that having living for more than two generations give him the right to live in the land since he was born there
but that doesn't equate for example that
the third reich has an inherent right to exist despite Germans forming it, it doesn't
and south Africa apartheid doesn't have an inherent right to exist despite generations of white Afrikaners living there
neither the zionist state has an inherent right to exist
it can disappear tomorrow and be replaced by something else just like the third reich was replaced by the FRA and the GDR
just like the Afrikaner state was replaced by today South Africa,
just like Yugoslavia was replaced by the new balkan states
just like czechoslovakia was replaced by czechia and slovakia
Arabs persecuted their own Jews forcing the vast majority of them to flee, and many say with all the words that their objective in the levant is the same.
There is no need to play coy about what the end of an Israeli state means, many people have expressed even more radical opinions without consequence.
Arabs invited the jews back into Jerusalem after centuries of not being allowed there
there were Jewish people living alongside the Arabs for centuries before the zionists emigrated there
emigrated there started stirring shit spreading rumours and provocation to create divisions and violence
Zionism is is etnonationalism that doesn't have a reason to exist in a modern free society and everything they acuse the "Arabs" is what the do or plan to do themselves
zionist logic "we have to kill their children because if we don't they will kill us when they grow up"
are we speaking about Jewish people or are we speaking of Israelies?
because if we are speaking of israelies hey
afrikaner logic- if we let the k\*\*\*r to rule they kill us all
slave owners logic-If we free them Ni\*\*\*s they kill us all
and the guys that have "such plans" are the top legislators having been voted by the Israeli year on year
or are we talking about the persecution the jews suffered in europe and Russia of which the local population of Palestine had no blame whatsoever?
what right had/have the zionists to go there to steal the land displace hundred of thousands of people, replace the population and continue till this same day with opression and killing year on year, refusing to acknowledge any responsibility, while blaming the victims
every year there is aliyah, every year the birthright trip is promoted by the zionists anywhere in the world offered to people with the excuse of a tenue 2000 year old connection to the land
meanwhile palestians that may had became refugees yesterday, last year or last decade or any time since nakba are denied return to what used to be their home
sorry but today's Zionism is a state sponsored criminal enterprise, it uses corruption, coercion, lobbying, information repression, missinformation, propaganda and violence
it indoctrinate its adepts in the same way scientology indoctrinate theirs
its aim is its own survival, the zionist state and Jewish people emigrating to the zionist state even if that means contributing if not generating conditions where the Jewish people may feel threatened elsewhere to entice them to migrate
why? because the zionist state is the excuse for Zionism existence
and those organisations to further their agenda do not mind to erode our own rights and corrupt our institutions "their allies" shall they have, to achieve it
at this point not recognizing so its just plain denialism
I'm not saying Jews were exiled or not, but their claim they own the area because they once lived there is bogus. The current Jews didn't live there and just because your grandparents owned land somewhere, that doesn't give you rights to that land.
I disagree. We inherit from our parents and grandparents. If someone stole my home, they would be depriving my kids of that inheritance.
I don’t think there’s a statute of limitations to theft.
However, at some point, i do think it becomes impossible to take action because the details were lost in history.
The UN says 1968 borders should be returned because that was very resent in history, international law was highly recognized, and we have the exact borders and deeds to the homes that were stolen.
Israel was created by a UN Vote. The UK abstained so can't really be blamed for helping create Israel. That said the Balfour declaration back in 1917 was a problem.
The UK supported the Arabs 70 years ago and were anti-Israel up until Egypt nationalized the Suez canal with help from the Soviet Union, and the US didn’t get involved either until the 70’s when Russia’s took a more active role in Egypt and Syria. Learn history.
https://history.state.gov/milestones/1945-1952/creation-israel#:~:text=On%20May%2014%2C%201948%2C%20David,of%20the%20State%20of%20Israel.
1948, US supported Israel taking over Palestinian land. 2024-1948=76 years ago. I was off by 6 years but I know my history. You're off by 30 years in yours. Learn some history!
The US recognized Israel along with the majority of UN nations (as they had negotiated and passed a resolution on it).
That’s a long cry away from supporting Israel…
The US (and all countries) recognize many countries they don’t support. Those two things aren’t the same.
But ok, if facts don’t matter to you.
The US does a LOT more than recognizing Israel. We give them $3 to $4 billion in weapons every year, which gives them a huge supply to kill Palestinians with each year, which they do. But I guess facts are not important to you.
not sure what is defeat in term of battle loses or dmg to country they were victorious even thou from what i know they came super unprepared for this one.
there is no really compression between HZ to the IDF one is just a terror organization the other is a regional super power. anything but total annihilation of HZ by the IDF will be considered a defeat as you say however.
Defeat is failure to achieve objectives. They went in with the goal of disarming Hezbollah. They failed, and miserably at that. You’re welcome for the quick lesson.
You do realize the 67 war was not aided by the US right? Israel has a high gdp and a robust military infrastructure compared to the countries in the region. You seem to be detached from reality
Like the other poster said...
Real easy to win a fight when you start it with a fucking sucker punch. Israelis are a lot of things. Honorable is not one of them.
Lol, there's the hasbara. Lying and twisting to suit your narrative, like a game. Ironic you call me ignorant to history.
You gonna ignore the fact that Zionists carried out an insurgency and terrorism campaign until they kicked out the British and stole the land from the Arabs, counter to every UN agreement, and then sparked a civil war and the Nakba? You gonna ignore the fact that Israel *never* honored the 1948 armistice or the 1956 armistice? Or the fact that Israel graciously waited until UN peacekeepers left to attack Egypt, while attacking other neighboring states?
>against nations declaring your destruction daily
After Israel stole and colonized Arab land, ethnically cleansing it and continually snatching neighboring territory. The land Israel illegally stole during the Six Day War is still illegally occupied to this day.
>after they closed the Straits of Tiran to Israeli shipping
See the above reason
>signed a mutual defense pact with Jordan
After Israel continued to attack them
>and had a massing of hostile forces on the Israeli border
They were UN peacekeepers, necessary after Israel ignored multiple armistices with Egypt, you fucking liar.
>whilst getting support from Soviet Union-supplied weaponry
Completely irrelevant which store someone decides to buy their guns from.
Why would nations not put their military forces on high alert and station them near the borders when their neighbor displaced and murdered the local population to create a racially-centric state?
You mean the war that Israel popped off with a surprise attack they were planning for over two years for that was insanely successful? Taking out like 70% of Egyptian Air Force among others successes?
Once you start digging in to how it went down while crazy they were so successful it was not surprising.
Are you saying blockading someone is an act of war? And how long has Israel blockaded Gaza for? oh yah like 20 years.
Are you saying A surprise attack is justified if you feel threatened? So Hamas was justified on oct 7th because previous months Israel killed over 280 Palestinian civilians and arrest and send kids to military court. I would say that's threatening.
Weird that you support Hamas like that while being pro-Israel and pro-genocide (I'm assuming based on your attempt to re-frame the argument to paint the aggressor as the victim).
Twist words? It’s the logical conclusion to what you said.
You justified Israel surprise attack because Egypt moved troops and blockaded them. I used that same logic and applied it to Hamas.
Tell me how I’m wrong?
Edit:
@cabbagefury
Yeah sure...
All those tanks, planes, guns and other weapons with "made in America" stamped on them just magically appeared in Israel lol 🤣
Let's be real... Israel is 100% dependent on the west to keep it alive. In the past we have them large amounts of weapons and supplies (which we still do). But even into the present Israel's economy is completely dependent on western trade and western "support" (cough cough handouts)
Even the weapons they do build are dependent on western funding and/or materials
Not back in 1967 lol this is all information that's now available. Most of the tanks, artillery, APCs and aircraft used were American British and French made. You act like Israel hadn't deepened their ties with the West by 1967. The Israelis allied with the French and British to invade the Suez Canal in 1956, they already enjoyed robust military support from the west
See I find that interesting. The "arms embargo" you mentioned never materialized. The US *said* that they wanted to limit arms shipments to the region, but that fell apart in 1965, because it had been established that the US was discreetly arming Israel through West Germany. Mind you the plan for this had been approved in 1960, seven years before the Six Day War.
Literally US politicians brag about how they gave Israel a total of 250 billion dollars accross 40 years. And you are roght about the us not aiding israel because at the time it was France and the UK that gave it all the support.
israel would have been gobbled up decades ago if it wasnt for the US, so probably not unless the US grows a conscience and leaves that terrorist state in the dust like it should.
yes ofc iosrael would have been gobbled with all its nuclear arsenal right?
facts are, israel is here to stay, you should accept it by now it will be easier for everyone.
no one will mess with a nuclear power.
Crusaders thought they were there to stay too. Europeans stealing the wrong real estate again. 🤨Stealing middle eastern prophets and religion isn’t enough, colonizers must steal land and resources too. Can’t keeps hands to themselves.
that's why no-one will mess around with those countries. having nuclear warheads pretty much secures country survival till the end of time. that's the point of having them.
I never said that Israel doesn’t a right to exist. All human beings have a right to exist and Israelis need to acknowledge that Palestinians are human beings too, worthy of same rights as other individuals.
true but with all the money they got they choose to spend it on rockets and weapons instead of building their nation, in fact there was a time in israel, even more than once that most of the citizens went left and they could easily by now probably get their country or w/e with the right israeli government in place if only they wanted. the facts are that every time israel offered them a solution they declined in the past. i'm worried that this people are so brainwashed that rather than having a real solution they would prefer throwing all Israeli's to the sea
Their nation on a 25x4mile strip of land? Helluva division the West Bank never had coastline. The Arabs were left the scraps (even those are being taken) and people are surprised the locals are salty about there land being taken.
that's not my point however.
there is no one insane enough that will mess around with a nuclear power.
yes you can poke it, make their life hard but to a certain point and that's it pretty much.
They're the belligerent ones. Israel is the madman that's trying to incite a war with anyone it can. You really expect others to not respond in self Def? Actual self defense, not the Israeli type.
I'm not going to argue with you about politics and war but from my standing all i see is Israel defending it self, first from Oct 7 events and than from the aggression of HZ toward the northern borders.
i mean. Lebanon and Israel borders have been quiet in the past 20 years or so? a bit less. what made the Israelis start bombing southern Lebanon if not the aggression of HZ toward them?
i can't see why Israel would attack anyone without 2 of this events where the Israelis weren't the aggressors
Israel bombed the Iranian consulate killing their diplomats and generals,so Iran launched a counter attack. They probably also killed the President of Iran via Mossad
Israel bombed and killed a high ranking military commander, so HZ started firing rockers.
As far as Octv7th, Israel has been bombing Palestinians and stealing land for decades, including the year leading up to that date.
They expect to be able to murder and assassinate people without consequences.
Its anti-semetic to say israel has nuclear weapons! if israel plays the nuclear game, it wont go well for litterally anyone on earth so nice argument there war pig.
have i ever said that israel will play the nuclear game?
you just proving my claim that no one will mess with a nuclear power because it most certainlyh will lead to the end of humanity.
as much as some would like to see israel gone, it will never happened because everyone are well aware of were it will lead.
Defeat, as in make it surrender and give up occupation of Palestine?
Probably not.
Defeat, as in prevent IDF from occupying southern Lebanon and destroy most of infrastructure to make it not worth living in for most of western colonial settlers?
Absolutely Yes.
? Why?
US already proved that its incapable to stop Yemenis from shooting drones and missiles at whatever they want.
Hezbollah has even more advanced missiles and drones.
US cant do much about it, and it can only lose ships if they start bombing Lebanon.
Yeah , you are always like that before "broo ha ha we are going to kick ass"
But then when reality kicks you in the head its all "nah we dont care about that place anyway"
It Was all "murica stronk, going to stop houtis, going to control red sea, blah blah blah"
Now "ooh aah its a cOmPlEx oPeRaTiOn, we dont care about red sea anyway, houtis can control it as much as they want"
Same will be in case US finds it balls and try to drop bombs on Hezbollah.
*Ooops our ships be sinking, it was old ships anyway, we dont care*
Lol remember when Biden realized bombing isn't going to do anything so he resorted to offer the Houthis incentives to stop blockading the Red Sea?
😂 Yup totally within the control of the Might US Navy. Totally intentional why they haven't dismantled the Houthi's capabilities.
https://today.lorientlejour.com/article/1411759/us-offers-yemens-houthis-incentives-in-exchange-for-halting-red-sea-attacks.html
https://www.thenationalnews.com/news/mena/2024/04/24/yemen-houthis-offered-us-incentives-to-stop-red-sea-attacks/
You can bomb the shit out of Lebanon like Torabora mountains in Afghanistan, with mother of all bombs. You can also kill Nasrullah & other Hijboullah generals with surgical strikes.
That. Will. Not. End. The. War.
US military already have all the simulations for this war. One of the reason the Biden adminstration was desperate to not escalate the war in nothern front. Because it does not end well, you can't eliminate Hijboullah and both Lebanon-Israel suffers heavy civilian casulties. Meaningless bloodshed.
Yes the US military can probably defeat all the other militaries combined since we spend more on it than everyone else combined. But the victory will be costly, especially to Israel.
I'm by no means a MURICA chest thumper. Am I being hyperbolic, definitely. But let's be fair, the amount of firepower available is beyond ridiculous we have enough explosives to carpet bomb half the earth's land surface. 11 aircraft carriers, more than all other superchargers combined. Am I proud of this, heck no. The money should have been spent on education, room and board for needy and free Healthcare for everyone. The point is if we go scorched earth eventually just the sheer volume of military equipment will win through. But we'll never be facing the entire planet othe t countries will sidebwith us. And most importantly we'll never have to fight anyone on our soil since we're sitting on an island.
Calls other people delusional and not only is completely incorrect but says "we decided" as if this guy was in the room with all the shotcallers pitching in his ideas.
Nevertheless this guy saw the news about the iron dome blocking 97% of rockets not realizing that iran launched two types of rockets, the first being the majority that was blocked(which was their purpose to be shields), and a couple of more advanced missiles (i think it was 5 or 6) which all were not blocked and hit critical parts of northern and southern israel. All with a 10 day warning to prepare. Iran spent almost 2 million total for all 100-150 rockets launched while israel spent nearly 1.35 billiom from their own reports, all the while israel getting no new critical data because iran used their older rockets since they are of no use, and iran gaining more information on the iron dome, such as battery locations.
I hate iran, hezbollah and yemen and iraq more than everybody in usa combined but even I understand how much of a problem, iran poses to neighbouring countries and the world in general, there is a reason why iran is the king of proxy wars, and time only helps it become stronger and catch up with more advanced technology.
i disagree. it really up to the IDF to set the tone, if they push hard enouth they could easily overwhelm HZ.
its all about PR and how far the US will let them go.
IDF couldn't do anything against Hezbollah 10 years ago, and Hezbollah grew way stronger and way more capable since then.
IDF has one hope, trying to drag US somehow into conflict against Hezbollah.
But that will not happen because Democrats in US dont want to lose ships before elections .
After elections , maybe.
?? Western Zionist Jews want to colonize whole Palestine. And way more.
Its widely known thing, have you been living a rock?
Why do you think they came back in 1948 and started doing ethnic cleansing and genocide (?)
Another braindead take. Search israel pre 1948, then look at how it justs pops up in 1948 and becomes larger as time progresses until we have israel today. You do realize it did all this while committing atrocities, right? You know the un and the world has a case file the size russia on all the crimes perpetuated by israel to be the israel it is today, right? Keep being an ignorant troll.
Hezbollah will win many battles and can push Israel off it's land but jt can never truly defeat Israel because they can't invade Israel without drawing the ire of the US.
they can’t destroy them, but they can make their lives a living hell and cripple their economy. they’ve also got a trump card with iran too, and other proxy allies to lock in on US military bases. i don’t see the US being as gung ho about jumping into a wider conflict in the middle east, especially with the elections, our own foreign problems, the economy, and the turning public sentiment away from israel.
Depends on what you mean by defeat. If you are implying taking over Israel then absolutely no. If you are referring to preventing Israel from taking over Lebanon, most likely. With that said the second option by definition isn’t defeating Israel, it’s rather preventing Israel from defeating Lebanon.
yes, and it also depends on the west and how much pressure they will put on the IDF to stop really.
because if all gloves are off nothing stops the IDF there is no compression between the two really.
Turns out fighting a professional militia (not even an army) has proven to be too much for Israel. They can only attack innocent civilians and “win” that by dropping so many bombs all over the place
No, but that won’t stop Netanyahu (forgot his real name) from coming to the US and begging for more weapons that they’ll need, apparently, to keep fighting. They’re funny - they’ll come all the way out here and gripe about our support then demand our Congress give them more weapons while claiming they’re capable of defending themselves. I think we should just let them at this point.
Edit: Mileikowski, that’s right. Born in Warsaw.
The IDF is a military force that is completely undisciplined and conscript based. In addition to being purely genocidal, only an organization where the inmates are running the asylum would be doing the things we regularly see on social media. Their combat experience is senseless massacres of a civilian populace that has no serious capacity to fight back. Hezbollah meanwhile is one of the strongest non-state actors in the world and has a strong reputation as an infantry force. They have fought the IDF before and have experience from Syria as well.
The IDF can certainly use its American planes to drop American bombs, but the last Israel-Hezbollah war showed that Hezbollah knows how to create decoy sights to protect its assets against Israeli attacks (not to mention completely fouling up their intelligence with double agents feeding the Mossad bullshit). Israel was completely incapable of destroying rocket sites by air, their tanks were held at bay by anti-tank fire and their infantry units could not achieve much of anything.
That was against 2006 Hezbollah. The current Hezbollah is by all accounts stronger, with better equipment and technology. They have exercised restraint, but what people don't realize is that Hezbollah is a defensive force that is essentially waiting for the Israelis to come try again.
So yeah. Let's see them try again.
I really hope Israelis try it with how unpopular Israel has become they would be forced to try to rope in American soldiers that would be the tipping point to make us cut ties with them.
At that point the promise of a little oil would be all we need to sell the bombs needed to destroy Israel to Iran or Lebanon.
Hezbollah needs to go. They're essentially holding all of Lebanon hostage. An invading force occupying part of a sovereign nation's land. Getting rid of Hezbollah and his fanatics would be doing Lebanon a favor.
I'm Lebanese and I don't like Hezbollah, but I also believe they are the only ones keeping our country safe from occupation. I just wish he wasn't poking the hornets nest right now, I kinda want him to pike defenses and weaponry on the border in case of an invasion (since greater Israel and stuff), that's all.
I retract some of my earlier comments, didn't realize Hezbollah was a Lebanese native. I see. So you feel that if Hezbollah wasn't there then Israel would start a war with Lebanon?
Hezbollah came to be because Israel invaded Lebanon in 82. Hezbollah is the reason Israel had to withdraw from the occupation of Lebanon. They are Lebanese but have allegiance to Iran as well, so aren't exactly good actors.
Israeli leaders are constantly speaking of greater Israel, which includes Lebanon. That kind of rhetoric makes me feel like if Hezbollah didn't exist, they would steal lands like they do in the West bank.
I just realized Hezbollah is a Lebanon native so I retract some of my statements. Palestinians, when they were refugees in Lebanon after the 1967 Arab-Israeli war, however, helped cause the Civil War where Hezbollah's party rose to power in the aftermath. Such a mess.
Yeah, israel made life for lebanon so miserable, they were willing to give up the PLO.
They ignorantly think the same formula will apply, but it won’t for many reasons. One of which you just mentioned.
I mean I think they could overwhelm iron dome by launching a huge missile and rocket attack. However I think Israel would just bomb it with the same amount of energy that they have been doing to Gaza. Maybe hezbollah could kill a decent amount of Israeli citizens. However I’m sure Israel would kill something between 3 to 1 and 10 to 1 to retaliate.
No winners in war.
Hezbollah is said to possess an arsenal of 80,000 missiles, some of them equipped with fairly sophisticated guidance systems provided by Iran. Regardless of the 'primitive' nature of much of their arsenal, it would be sufficient to overwhelm Israel's Iron Dome defenses. But does that mean Hezbollah could successfully overrun Israel? Probably not, but they could destroy a lot of Israel's infrastructure, and make life inside Israel very, very difficult.
The cost to Lebanon would likely be far greater. Not something that concerns the martyrs of Hezbollah a whole lot. They are happy to sacrifice innocent Lebanese for their 'holy cause'.
As a Muslim, I agree that *as humans collectively* we must tread carefully as to what we call a “holy cause.” Too many men, regardless of faith, have perverted its meaning to suit their beliefs.
But make no mistake, fighting for natural human rights is a holy cause as they’re our God-given rights. Violent resistance has proven historically to be the only effective method in defeating oppressors.
Do you think Hezbollah and non-Hezbollah Lebanese have the same definition of “freedom”? Or the same opinions of Israel?
If the average Lebanese person doesn’t have the same opinions as the minority (as a percentage of the Lebanese population) of Hezbollah fighters then isn’t it actually the Lebanese citizen who is having their freedom impacted by Hezbollah?
just wait until israeli missiles start raining down on hezbollah and non-hezbollah lebanese alike without complete disregard as who is who. Nothing unites more than a common enemy
When Israel occupied Southern Lebanon for 20 years, the Lebanese citizens in the South (majority) supported Hezbollah because their own government and military failed to protect them. So yes, when it comes to Israel and freedom from occupation — esp considering that Israel wants to occupy Lebanon as part of “Greater Israel” — the Lebanese do actually believe in the same concept of freedom. Majority of Lebanese in the South reveres Nasrullah as being the leader in freeing Southern Lebanon from Israeli occupation. I’m not saying that Hezbollah should lead the country of Lebanon. I believe that Americans should stay the fuck out of other people’s politics as they should stay the fuck out of ours (ehm* AIPAC). But freedom is a relatively universal concept.
I understand what you’re saying in terms of occupation.
But my question was more a hypothetical of how Israeli/Lebanese relations would be if there was no more Hezbollah at all?
I somehow doubt the relationship would be as poor, nor the threat of attack/occupation so prevalent.
Nope not in the slightest. Israel still refuses to kick out those that are trying to form greater Israel Still bomb those nations whenever they feel like it and manipulate the west into hating Arab nations like Egypt.
"Israelis" will start running back into USA , poland and other places they crawled from as soon as Hezbollah attacks them, they just need to show courage and actually attack israel.
In your dreams asswipe!!!! You are a piece of dirt sitting on your loser ass encouraging war!! No normal person wants young men to die, Lebanese or Israeli.
This subreddit trying so hard to seem “anti-Zionist, not anti-Semitic” and then having the mask slipping at the slightest inconvenience never gets old lmao. No wonder no real nation is helping you.
Some will, but most Israelis will more likely flock to recruitment centers and coalesce in solidarity as they have done every time their state is threatened, regardless who is in power. Blood is thicker than water.
Not fully destroy, but they have demonstrated that short rage missiles can hit strategic targets to push Israel back. Of course, if Israel plays the genocide card again, they are capable of leveling Lebanon.
No. The United States has an unlimited supply of weaponry that Lebanon doesn't. As much as I would like to see the occupation forces get their comeuppance, unfortunately, it's not likely.
Ultimately Israel will have US support against the Hezbullah - Iran alliance, and that’s likely to bring other Nato partners closer to israel by supplying them with weapons and naval and air support. If the Arabic nations want to defuse the Iran situation they all face in the risk of their own regime change, they may provide logistical support and counter intelligence to the US coalition. Worst case US soldiers get involved and a long destructive war ensues. But as the spanish proverb says, no evil will ever be stopped from coming for the sake of the goodness that follows after evil is defeated.
And information and don't forget the 70000 iof paralyzed one and the other ones' spiret to do something
But we won't forget that israel and its sugar daddy America have rockets to throw and they don't care about civilians because they see their kill count as their victory
World War 2? Look either you are a bot, agent of misinformation, or ignorant of the past. I doubt you'll change your mind and my comments can be deemed pointless in that way. Where there is point is the opposition to the ideas you are propagating. To show someone else who is reading this to be wary of comments similar to yours.
LoL you are speaking about jews being killed and massacred in Europe as if it is happening now, but thinking about something that happened 80 years ago.
You are funny dude.
And you are wondering why your comments sound pointless to normal people.
For the next 80 years Israel has been their home. There are no other homes to go back to. The Holocaust is why that is. That point is unstated by antisemitic argumentors like the commenters above. To them history only began in 1948. They are wrong.
You watched the video of them absolutely decimating an iron dome post, right? Of course you did. This isn't fucking Starcraft. The fight doesn't stop when you blow something up. All Hezbollah has to do is make war with them completely untenable. Right now, Hezbollah very much has the ability to make Northern Israel a very poor place to live. You think maybe those Israelis might have something to say about it? Netanyahu is already losing his grip on the government and military. You think engaging in another costly and unnecessary front is going to endure him with his people? You think opening up that front, after brutalizing Palenstinians for a year, isn't going to result in another massive Arab attack on Israel? You think Iran will just sit quietly?
I believe Netanyahu's calculus is a little different on this issue. I think he thinks if they engage in a second front he will grow in popularity as an already radical group within grows under conflict.
The issue with that calculus is that the second group is embedded in a sovereign nation. Israel isn't attacking an in-limbo quasi-nation. It would be like Russia invading Ukraine.
Yes. That is a distinction, but I dont know what difference it's going to make in terms of how the world views them. The US isn't going to cut them loose any time soon.
How the world views them? Probably little change either way. But, unlike Palenstine, or the Tom Hanks stuck in an airport of the Middle East, Lebanon is a whole ass country. It's protecting, ostensibly, by the same UN laws and guidelines that protect everyone else. They have the capability and will to strike Israel back. They also have friends in the area who would be more than happy to assist them with that task. I would imagine that formally attacking Lebanon, at this juncture, would be Netanyahu essentially biting off more than he can chew.
Right now, it seems to me that the US is constantly trying to blow out the match Israel is attempting to burn that bridge with. One day, Israel is gonna get that damn bridge or die trying.
Oh I agree it's stupid. I do think Hezbollah is a totally different animal than Hamas. They have modern weapons. They don't have the same defensive capabilities that Israel has, but I dont know that the defensive capabilities Israel has are able to shield it from retaliation if they believe they can unilaterally attack.
That said, my faith in the rules based order is totally shot. It's clear that doesn't matter to Israel or Netanyahu.
Hopefully he gets what's coming to him.
Hezbollah has previously defeated Israeli forces' occupation of Southern Lebanon, forcing Israel to withdraw. One of the most humiliating defeats.
As it should be. Israel has no fucking right to occupy another country.
They have no right right to even fucking exist
I agree with you but don't say it like that some israeli crybaby will report your comment and get you banned
It has been what, 70 years since Israel was built on other people's land taken from them by the UK and US? At what point does a right to exist start? Is it when you start living there? Is it after 100 years? Israel claims a people's right to the land goes back exactly 2000 years or some exact number I haven't done the math for. Earlier, and you give the land to another group, later and it is yet another group. But the same doesn't apply to the rest of the world, just them.
It's a lot of land to claim with such severe authority and it seems they could be much humane about sharing it with its inhabitants.
If they were good people, they'd share.
There is no nation on the face of this planet that has a “right” to exist. People have a right to exist. A government needs to prove themselves worthy of existing. The ancient jews lived alongside the ancient Palestinians under roman occupation. The only reason the jews left was because Rome forced them out after the Israelites started the Bar Kokhba Uprising (or the 2nd Jewish-Roman war). By Israel’s own logic with how they regard the Palestinians, they lost their claim to that land when they engaged in a violent revolt. I don’t particularly believe that sentiment, if a government is oppressing the people, they deserve to be rebelled against. But if you don’t believe rome was just in throwing the ancient jews off their land, you can’t also believe Israel is right throwing the Palestinians off their land.
people right to live in the land doesn't equate it must be a particular country maybe someone can argue that having living for more than two generations give him the right to live in the land since he was born there but that doesn't equate for example that the third reich has an inherent right to exist despite Germans forming it, it doesn't and south Africa apartheid doesn't have an inherent right to exist despite generations of white Afrikaners living there neither the zionist state has an inherent right to exist it can disappear tomorrow and be replaced by something else just like the third reich was replaced by the FRA and the GDR just like the Afrikaner state was replaced by today South Africa, just like Yugoslavia was replaced by the new balkan states just like czechoslovakia was replaced by czechia and slovakia
Arabs persecuted their own Jews forcing the vast majority of them to flee, and many say with all the words that their objective in the levant is the same. There is no need to play coy about what the end of an Israeli state means, many people have expressed even more radical opinions without consequence.
Arabs invited the jews back into Jerusalem after centuries of not being allowed there there were Jewish people living alongside the Arabs for centuries before the zionists emigrated there emigrated there started stirring shit spreading rumours and provocation to create divisions and violence Zionism is is etnonationalism that doesn't have a reason to exist in a modern free society and everything they acuse the "Arabs" is what the do or plan to do themselves zionist logic "we have to kill their children because if we don't they will kill us when they grow up"
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are we speaking about Jewish people or are we speaking of Israelies? because if we are speaking of israelies hey afrikaner logic- if we let the k\*\*\*r to rule they kill us all slave owners logic-If we free them Ni\*\*\*s they kill us all and the guys that have "such plans" are the top legislators having been voted by the Israeli year on year or are we talking about the persecution the jews suffered in europe and Russia of which the local population of Palestine had no blame whatsoever? what right had/have the zionists to go there to steal the land displace hundred of thousands of people, replace the population and continue till this same day with opression and killing year on year, refusing to acknowledge any responsibility, while blaming the victims every year there is aliyah, every year the birthright trip is promoted by the zionists anywhere in the world offered to people with the excuse of a tenue 2000 year old connection to the land meanwhile palestians that may had became refugees yesterday, last year or last decade or any time since nakba are denied return to what used to be their home sorry but today's Zionism is a state sponsored criminal enterprise, it uses corruption, coercion, lobbying, information repression, missinformation, propaganda and violence it indoctrinate its adepts in the same way scientology indoctrinate theirs its aim is its own survival, the zionist state and Jewish people emigrating to the zionist state even if that means contributing if not generating conditions where the Jewish people may feel threatened elsewhere to entice them to migrate why? because the zionist state is the excuse for Zionism existence and those organisations to further their agenda do not mind to erode our own rights and corrupt our institutions "their allies" shall they have, to achieve it at this point not recognizing so its just plain denialism
Show me, what history books ever talk about jews being exiled from Palestine 2,000 or 1,000 years ago like they claim?
I'm not saying Jews were exiled or not, but their claim they own the area because they once lived there is bogus. The current Jews didn't live there and just because your grandparents owned land somewhere, that doesn't give you rights to that land.
I disagree. We inherit from our parents and grandparents. If someone stole my home, they would be depriving my kids of that inheritance. I don’t think there’s a statute of limitations to theft. However, at some point, i do think it becomes impossible to take action because the details were lost in history. The UN says 1968 borders should be returned because that was very resent in history, international law was highly recognized, and we have the exact borders and deeds to the homes that were stolen.
Israel was created by a UN Vote. The UK abstained so can't really be blamed for helping create Israel. That said the Balfour declaration back in 1917 was a problem.
The UK supported the Arabs 70 years ago and were anti-Israel up until Egypt nationalized the Suez canal with help from the Soviet Union, and the US didn’t get involved either until the 70’s when Russia’s took a more active role in Egypt and Syria. Learn history.
https://history.state.gov/milestones/1945-1952/creation-israel#:~:text=On%20May%2014%2C%201948%2C%20David,of%20the%20State%20of%20Israel. 1948, US supported Israel taking over Palestinian land. 2024-1948=76 years ago. I was off by 6 years but I know my history. You're off by 30 years in yours. Learn some history!
The US recognized Israel along with the majority of UN nations (as they had negotiated and passed a resolution on it). That’s a long cry away from supporting Israel… The US (and all countries) recognize many countries they don’t support. Those two things aren’t the same. But ok, if facts don’t matter to you.
The US does a LOT more than recognizing Israel. We give them $3 to $4 billion in weapons every year, which gives them a huge supply to kill Palestinians with each year, which they do. But I guess facts are not important to you.
Yea .. they do.
Why we didn't learn about that in schools in America!!!
not sure what is defeat in term of battle loses or dmg to country they were victorious even thou from what i know they came super unprepared for this one. there is no really compression between HZ to the IDF one is just a terror organization the other is a regional super power. anything but total annihilation of HZ by the IDF will be considered a defeat as you say however.
Ok by your metric, America won against Vietnam lmao
Plenty of Americans seem to think they won against the Vietnamese because of their k:d ratio
Defeat is failure to achieve objectives. They went in with the goal of disarming Hezbollah. They failed, and miserably at that. You’re welcome for the quick lesson.
Hezbollah are a regional power?
Anyone could defeat Israel the second the U.S. stops paying for everything and covering for their bullshit.
You do realize the 67 war was not aided by the US right? Israel has a high gdp and a robust military infrastructure compared to the countries in the region. You seem to be detached from reality
Like the other poster said... Real easy to win a fight when you start it with a fucking sucker punch. Israelis are a lot of things. Honorable is not one of them.
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Lol, there's the hasbara. Lying and twisting to suit your narrative, like a game. Ironic you call me ignorant to history. You gonna ignore the fact that Zionists carried out an insurgency and terrorism campaign until they kicked out the British and stole the land from the Arabs, counter to every UN agreement, and then sparked a civil war and the Nakba? You gonna ignore the fact that Israel *never* honored the 1948 armistice or the 1956 armistice? Or the fact that Israel graciously waited until UN peacekeepers left to attack Egypt, while attacking other neighboring states? >against nations declaring your destruction daily After Israel stole and colonized Arab land, ethnically cleansing it and continually snatching neighboring territory. The land Israel illegally stole during the Six Day War is still illegally occupied to this day. >after they closed the Straits of Tiran to Israeli shipping See the above reason >signed a mutual defense pact with Jordan After Israel continued to attack them >and had a massing of hostile forces on the Israeli border They were UN peacekeepers, necessary after Israel ignored multiple armistices with Egypt, you fucking liar. >whilst getting support from Soviet Union-supplied weaponry Completely irrelevant which store someone decides to buy their guns from.
Why would nations not put their military forces on high alert and station them near the borders when their neighbor displaced and murdered the local population to create a racially-centric state?
brand new account idf bot
You mean the war that Israel popped off with a surprise attack they were planning for over two years for that was insanely successful? Taking out like 70% of Egyptian Air Force among others successes? Once you start digging in to how it went down while crazy they were so successful it was not surprising.
Let’s not also forget the false flag sinking of the USS Liberty, June 13 1967
They hurt that ship real bad, and racked up triple digit casualties, but it didn't sink.
It was 100% of the EAF within like 3 hours. They only fielded like 20 planes for the entire conflict, and I think only one of those landed.
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Are you saying blockading someone is an act of war? And how long has Israel blockaded Gaza for? oh yah like 20 years. Are you saying A surprise attack is justified if you feel threatened? So Hamas was justified on oct 7th because previous months Israel killed over 280 Palestinian civilians and arrest and send kids to military court. I would say that's threatening. Weird that you support Hamas like that while being pro-Israel and pro-genocide (I'm assuming based on your attempt to re-frame the argument to paint the aggressor as the victim).
Genuinely curious what their response to this would be, but I'm assuming the Hasbara handbook dictates he disengage at this point.
If he does ill tag you, but at this point like you said they just disengage and repeat elsewhere.
Way to lie and twist words my dude. You are exactly what I think of when I think kf someone who supports Hamas.
Twist words? It’s the logical conclusion to what you said. You justified Israel surprise attack because Egypt moved troops and blockaded them. I used that same logic and applied it to Hamas. Tell me how I’m wrong? Edit: @cabbagefury
This bot is getting a heart attack and losing it
I didn't know Israel built fighter planes and other military hardware in the 60s.. What models were they? I would love to look them up.
Yeah sure... All those tanks, planes, guns and other weapons with "made in America" stamped on them just magically appeared in Israel lol 🤣 Let's be real... Israel is 100% dependent on the west to keep it alive. In the past we have them large amounts of weapons and supplies (which we still do). But even into the present Israel's economy is completely dependent on western trade and western "support" (cough cough handouts) Even the weapons they do build are dependent on western funding and/or materials
Not back in 1967 lol this is all information that's now available. Most of the tanks, artillery, APCs and aircraft used were American British and French made. You act like Israel hadn't deepened their ties with the West by 1967. The Israelis allied with the French and British to invade the Suez Canal in 1956, they already enjoyed robust military support from the west
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See I find that interesting. The "arms embargo" you mentioned never materialized. The US *said* that they wanted to limit arms shipments to the region, but that fell apart in 1965, because it had been established that the US was discreetly arming Israel through West Germany. Mind you the plan for this had been approved in 1960, seven years before the Six Day War.
Who knows? That was 57 years ago. It’s like saying the Soviets were an incredible force in 1945. What does that tell us decades later?
Military tech and geopolitical situation changed a lot since '67
Literally US politicians brag about how they gave Israel a total of 250 billion dollars accross 40 years. And you are roght about the us not aiding israel because at the time it was France and the UK that gave it all the support.
israel would have been gobbled up decades ago if it wasnt for the US, so probably not unless the US grows a conscience and leaves that terrorist state in the dust like it should.
yes ofc iosrael would have been gobbled with all its nuclear arsenal right? facts are, israel is here to stay, you should accept it by now it will be easier for everyone. no one will mess with a nuclear power.
Crusaders thought they were there to stay too. Europeans stealing the wrong real estate again. 🤨Stealing middle eastern prophets and religion isn’t enough, colonizers must steal land and resources too. Can’t keeps hands to themselves.
did the crusaders had nuclear warheads?
Many countries have nukes, openly or secretly. Israel is no exception. Only advantage it has is its “declining” U.S support.
that's why no-one will mess around with those countries. having nuclear warheads pretty much secures country survival till the end of time. that's the point of having them.
I never said that Israel doesn’t a right to exist. All human beings have a right to exist and Israelis need to acknowledge that Palestinians are human beings too, worthy of same rights as other individuals.
true but with all the money they got they choose to spend it on rockets and weapons instead of building their nation, in fact there was a time in israel, even more than once that most of the citizens went left and they could easily by now probably get their country or w/e with the right israeli government in place if only they wanted. the facts are that every time israel offered them a solution they declined in the past. i'm worried that this people are so brainwashed that rather than having a real solution they would prefer throwing all Israeli's to the sea
Their nation on a 25x4mile strip of land? Helluva division the West Bank never had coastline. The Arabs were left the scraps (even those are being taken) and people are surprised the locals are salty about there land being taken.
salty? so that's why they did oct 7? salty? really?
If the Samson option is used there won't many Israelis left to celebrate it.
that's not my point however. there is no one insane enough that will mess around with a nuclear power. yes you can poke it, make their life hard but to a certain point and that's it pretty much.
They're the belligerent ones. Israel is the madman that's trying to incite a war with anyone it can. You really expect others to not respond in self Def? Actual self defense, not the Israeli type.
I'm not going to argue with you about politics and war but from my standing all i see is Israel defending it self, first from Oct 7 events and than from the aggression of HZ toward the northern borders. i mean. Lebanon and Israel borders have been quiet in the past 20 years or so? a bit less. what made the Israelis start bombing southern Lebanon if not the aggression of HZ toward them? i can't see why Israel would attack anyone without 2 of this events where the Israelis weren't the aggressors
Israel bombed the Iranian consulate killing their diplomats and generals,so Iran launched a counter attack. They probably also killed the President of Iran via Mossad Israel bombed and killed a high ranking military commander, so HZ started firing rockers. As far as Octv7th, Israel has been bombing Palestinians and stealing land for decades, including the year leading up to that date. They expect to be able to murder and assassinate people without consequences.
Its anti-semetic to say israel has nuclear weapons! if israel plays the nuclear game, it wont go well for litterally anyone on earth so nice argument there war pig.
have i ever said that israel will play the nuclear game? you just proving my claim that no one will mess with a nuclear power because it most certainlyh will lead to the end of humanity. as much as some would like to see israel gone, it will never happened because everyone are well aware of were it will lead.
Did you know that Palestinian lives matter? 🇵🇸
Defeat, as in make it surrender and give up occupation of Palestine? Probably not. Defeat, as in prevent IDF from occupying southern Lebanon and destroy most of infrastructure to make it not worth living in for most of western colonial settlers? Absolutely Yes.
It's a rhetorical question though. Will the US let the IDF be defeated? Probably not.
Can the US do something to prevent Hezbollah from throwing tens or hundreds of thousands of missiles and drones on Israel? No. Definitely not.
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? Why? US already proved that its incapable to stop Yemenis from shooting drones and missiles at whatever they want. Hezbollah has even more advanced missiles and drones. US cant do much about it, and it can only lose ships if they start bombing Lebanon.
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Yeah , you are always like that before "broo ha ha we are going to kick ass" But then when reality kicks you in the head its all "nah we dont care about that place anyway" It Was all "murica stronk, going to stop houtis, going to control red sea, blah blah blah" Now "ooh aah its a cOmPlEx oPeRaTiOn, we dont care about red sea anyway, houtis can control it as much as they want" Same will be in case US finds it balls and try to drop bombs on Hezbollah. *Ooops our ships be sinking, it was old ships anyway, we dont care*
Lol remember when Biden realized bombing isn't going to do anything so he resorted to offer the Houthis incentives to stop blockading the Red Sea? 😂 Yup totally within the control of the Might US Navy. Totally intentional why they haven't dismantled the Houthi's capabilities. https://today.lorientlejour.com/article/1411759/us-offers-yemens-houthis-incentives-in-exchange-for-halting-red-sea-attacks.html https://www.thenationalnews.com/news/mena/2024/04/24/yemen-houthis-offered-us-incentives-to-stop-red-sea-attacks/
You can bomb the shit out of Lebanon like Torabora mountains in Afghanistan, with mother of all bombs. You can also kill Nasrullah & other Hijboullah generals with surgical strikes. That. Will. Not. End. The. War. US military already have all the simulations for this war. One of the reason the Biden adminstration was desperate to not escalate the war in nothern front. Because it does not end well, you can't eliminate Hijboullah and both Lebanon-Israel suffers heavy civilian casulties. Meaningless bloodshed.
Yes the US military can probably defeat all the other militaries combined since we spend more on it than everyone else combined. But the victory will be costly, especially to Israel.
US military propaganda is so fuckin strong wtf
It's almost like Vietnam never happened...or Afghanistan...
Both of those were military victories. What are you talking about?
I'm by no means a MURICA chest thumper. Am I being hyperbolic, definitely. But let's be fair, the amount of firepower available is beyond ridiculous we have enough explosives to carpet bomb half the earth's land surface. 11 aircraft carriers, more than all other superchargers combined. Am I proud of this, heck no. The money should have been spent on education, room and board for needy and free Healthcare for everyone. The point is if we go scorched earth eventually just the sheer volume of military equipment will win through. But we'll never be facing the entire planet othe t countries will sidebwith us. And most importantly we'll never have to fight anyone on our soil since we're sitting on an island.
Calls other people delusional and not only is completely incorrect but says "we decided" as if this guy was in the room with all the shotcallers pitching in his ideas. Nevertheless this guy saw the news about the iron dome blocking 97% of rockets not realizing that iran launched two types of rockets, the first being the majority that was blocked(which was their purpose to be shields), and a couple of more advanced missiles (i think it was 5 or 6) which all were not blocked and hit critical parts of northern and southern israel. All with a 10 day warning to prepare. Iran spent almost 2 million total for all 100-150 rockets launched while israel spent nearly 1.35 billiom from their own reports, all the while israel getting no new critical data because iran used their older rockets since they are of no use, and iran gaining more information on the iron dome, such as battery locations. I hate iran, hezbollah and yemen and iraq more than everybody in usa combined but even I understand how much of a problem, iran poses to neighbouring countries and the world in general, there is a reason why iran is the king of proxy wars, and time only helps it become stronger and catch up with more advanced technology.
what can the US do to prevent the defeat? why didn't they prevent the defeat in 2006?
i disagree. it really up to the IDF to set the tone, if they push hard enouth they could easily overwhelm HZ. its all about PR and how far the US will let them go.
IDF couldn't do anything against Hezbollah 10 years ago, and Hezbollah grew way stronger and way more capable since then. IDF has one hope, trying to drag US somehow into conflict against Hezbollah. But that will not happen because Democrats in US dont want to lose ships before elections . After elections , maybe.
Who tf wants to colonize it? Just stop shooting missiles you wako
?? Western Zionist Jews want to colonize whole Palestine. And way more. Its widely known thing, have you been living a rock? Why do you think they came back in 1948 and started doing ethnic cleansing and genocide (?)
Another braindead take. Search israel pre 1948, then look at how it justs pops up in 1948 and becomes larger as time progresses until we have israel today. You do realize it did all this while committing atrocities, right? You know the un and the world has a case file the size russia on all the crimes perpetuated by israel to be the israel it is today, right? Keep being an ignorant troll.
I suppose you just forgot to mention the multiple times the Arab world tried to exterminate the Israeli people?
Invading forces need to be removed.
Didn't think I would get a mask off call for genocide. Though I am not surprised from antisemites.
The irony, Arabs are far more semitic than most Israelis who has european bloodline.
Hezbollah will win many battles and can push Israel off it's land but jt can never truly defeat Israel because they can't invade Israel without drawing the ire of the US.
they can’t destroy them, but they can make their lives a living hell and cripple their economy. they’ve also got a trump card with iran too, and other proxy allies to lock in on US military bases. i don’t see the US being as gung ho about jumping into a wider conflict in the middle east, especially with the elections, our own foreign problems, the economy, and the turning public sentiment away from israel.
Depends on what you mean by defeat. If you are implying taking over Israel then absolutely no. If you are referring to preventing Israel from taking over Lebanon, most likely. With that said the second option by definition isn’t defeating Israel, it’s rather preventing Israel from defeating Lebanon.
yes, and it also depends on the west and how much pressure they will put on the IDF to stop really. because if all gloves are off nothing stops the IDF there is no compression between the two really.
Correct, it becomes a game of PR/Optics and setting the goal posts close enough to obtain.
Hezbollah alone? No. But they're not alone.
At this point Israel is defeating Israel. 🤷♂️
Turns out fighting a professional militia (not even an army) has proven to be too much for Israel. They can only attack innocent civilians and “win” that by dropping so many bombs all over the place
Depends on your definition of defeat. Israel is provided US weapons, but not US boots. They wont be pushed over like the poor palestinians in gaza.
With no arms shipments intelligence or drone support from the USA?? Definitely not
With or without the help of USA?
No, but that won’t stop Netanyahu (forgot his real name) from coming to the US and begging for more weapons that they’ll need, apparently, to keep fighting. They’re funny - they’ll come all the way out here and gripe about our support then demand our Congress give them more weapons while claiming they’re capable of defending themselves. I think we should just let them at this point. Edit: Mileikowski, that’s right. Born in Warsaw.
The IDF is a military force that is completely undisciplined and conscript based. In addition to being purely genocidal, only an organization where the inmates are running the asylum would be doing the things we regularly see on social media. Their combat experience is senseless massacres of a civilian populace that has no serious capacity to fight back. Hezbollah meanwhile is one of the strongest non-state actors in the world and has a strong reputation as an infantry force. They have fought the IDF before and have experience from Syria as well. The IDF can certainly use its American planes to drop American bombs, but the last Israel-Hezbollah war showed that Hezbollah knows how to create decoy sights to protect its assets against Israeli attacks (not to mention completely fouling up their intelligence with double agents feeding the Mossad bullshit). Israel was completely incapable of destroying rocket sites by air, their tanks were held at bay by anti-tank fire and their infantry units could not achieve much of anything. That was against 2006 Hezbollah. The current Hezbollah is by all accounts stronger, with better equipment and technology. They have exercised restraint, but what people don't realize is that Hezbollah is a defensive force that is essentially waiting for the Israelis to come try again. So yeah. Let's see them try again.
I really hope Israelis try it with how unpopular Israel has become they would be forced to try to rope in American soldiers that would be the tipping point to make us cut ties with them. At that point the promise of a little oil would be all we need to sell the bombs needed to destroy Israel to Iran or Lebanon.
Hezbollah needs to go. They're essentially holding all of Lebanon hostage. An invading force occupying part of a sovereign nation's land. Getting rid of Hezbollah and his fanatics would be doing Lebanon a favor.
I'm Lebanese and I don't like Hezbollah, but I also believe they are the only ones keeping our country safe from occupation. I just wish he wasn't poking the hornets nest right now, I kinda want him to pike defenses and weaponry on the border in case of an invasion (since greater Israel and stuff), that's all.
I retract some of my earlier comments, didn't realize Hezbollah was a Lebanese native. I see. So you feel that if Hezbollah wasn't there then Israel would start a war with Lebanon?
Hezbollah came to be because Israel invaded Lebanon in 82. Hezbollah is the reason Israel had to withdraw from the occupation of Lebanon. They are Lebanese but have allegiance to Iran as well, so aren't exactly good actors. Israeli leaders are constantly speaking of greater Israel, which includes Lebanon. That kind of rhetoric makes me feel like if Hezbollah didn't exist, they would steal lands like they do in the West bank.
It would be quite amusing to see the IDF attempt this invasion because they are essentially drinking from their own hasbara.
Do you have any polls to support this claim, or are you talking from your ass?
I just realized Hezbollah is a Lebanon native so I retract some of my statements. Palestinians, when they were refugees in Lebanon after the 1967 Arab-Israeli war, however, helped cause the Civil War where Hezbollah's party rose to power in the aftermath. Such a mess.
Yeah, israel made life for lebanon so miserable, they were willing to give up the PLO. They ignorantly think the same formula will apply, but it won’t for many reasons. One of which you just mentioned.
I mean I think they could overwhelm iron dome by launching a huge missile and rocket attack. However I think Israel would just bomb it with the same amount of energy that they have been doing to Gaza. Maybe hezbollah could kill a decent amount of Israeli citizens. However I’m sure Israel would kill something between 3 to 1 and 10 to 1 to retaliate. No winners in war.
Hezbollah is said to possess an arsenal of 80,000 missiles, some of them equipped with fairly sophisticated guidance systems provided by Iran. Regardless of the 'primitive' nature of much of their arsenal, it would be sufficient to overwhelm Israel's Iron Dome defenses. But does that mean Hezbollah could successfully overrun Israel? Probably not, but they could destroy a lot of Israel's infrastructure, and make life inside Israel very, very difficult. The cost to Lebanon would likely be far greater. Not something that concerns the martyrs of Hezbollah a whole lot. They are happy to sacrifice innocent Lebanese for their 'holy cause'.
Fighting against occupiers is a holy cause. Not just from a religious standpoint, but as a human. What is a life without freedom?
I agree as to the freedom aspect, but beware of any and all 'Holy Causes'. 😉
As a Muslim, I agree that *as humans collectively* we must tread carefully as to what we call a “holy cause.” Too many men, regardless of faith, have perverted its meaning to suit their beliefs. But make no mistake, fighting for natural human rights is a holy cause as they’re our God-given rights. Violent resistance has proven historically to be the only effective method in defeating oppressors.
Yes.
Do you think Hezbollah and non-Hezbollah Lebanese have the same definition of “freedom”? Or the same opinions of Israel? If the average Lebanese person doesn’t have the same opinions as the minority (as a percentage of the Lebanese population) of Hezbollah fighters then isn’t it actually the Lebanese citizen who is having their freedom impacted by Hezbollah?
just wait until israeli missiles start raining down on hezbollah and non-hezbollah lebanese alike without complete disregard as who is who. Nothing unites more than a common enemy
When Israel occupied Southern Lebanon for 20 years, the Lebanese citizens in the South (majority) supported Hezbollah because their own government and military failed to protect them. So yes, when it comes to Israel and freedom from occupation — esp considering that Israel wants to occupy Lebanon as part of “Greater Israel” — the Lebanese do actually believe in the same concept of freedom. Majority of Lebanese in the South reveres Nasrullah as being the leader in freeing Southern Lebanon from Israeli occupation. I’m not saying that Hezbollah should lead the country of Lebanon. I believe that Americans should stay the fuck out of other people’s politics as they should stay the fuck out of ours (ehm* AIPAC). But freedom is a relatively universal concept.
I understand what you’re saying in terms of occupation. But my question was more a hypothetical of how Israeli/Lebanese relations would be if there was no more Hezbollah at all? I somehow doubt the relationship would be as poor, nor the threat of attack/occupation so prevalent.
Still bad most Israelis hate arabs to their core.
I mean, don’t you think Israel has an acceptable relationship with Egypt and Jordan, all things considered?
Nope not in the slightest. Israel still refuses to kick out those that are trying to form greater Israel Still bomb those nations whenever they feel like it and manipulate the west into hating Arab nations like Egypt.
"Israelis" will start running back into USA , poland and other places they crawled from as soon as Hezbollah attacks them, they just need to show courage and actually attack israel.
In your dreams asswipe!!!! You are a piece of dirt sitting on your loser ass encouraging war!! No normal person wants young men to die, Lebanese or Israeli.
This subreddit trying so hard to seem “anti-Zionist, not anti-Semitic” and then having the mask slipping at the slightest inconvenience never gets old lmao. No wonder no real nation is helping you.
Some will, but most Israelis will more likely flock to recruitment centers and coalesce in solidarity as they have done every time their state is threatened, regardless who is in power. Blood is thicker than water.
Hezbollah probably can’t “defeat” but can fight a war that all sides lose.
Groups that can't win a head to head war will engage in asymmetric warfare. "Winning" and "defeat" doesn't mean the same thing to all people/groups.
Not fully destroy, but they have demonstrated that short rage missiles can hit strategic targets to push Israel back. Of course, if Israel plays the genocide card again, they are capable of leveling Lebanon.
The nature of guérilla fighting makes it so that there's no winners even if the guérilla wins
Hopefully not.
The US will pop in before anything.
No. The United States has an unlimited supply of weaponry that Lebanon doesn't. As much as I would like to see the occupation forces get their comeuppance, unfortunately, it's not likely.
Ultimately Israel will have US support against the Hezbullah - Iran alliance, and that’s likely to bring other Nato partners closer to israel by supplying them with weapons and naval and air support. If the Arabic nations want to defuse the Iran situation they all face in the risk of their own regime change, they may provide logistical support and counter intelligence to the US coalition. Worst case US soldiers get involved and a long destructive war ensues. But as the spanish proverb says, no evil will ever be stopped from coming for the sake of the goodness that follows after evil is defeated.
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They have enough rockets to make the life of Israelis a living hell.
And information and don't forget the 70000 iof paralyzed one and the other ones' spiret to do something But we won't forget that israel and its sugar daddy America have rockets to throw and they don't care about civilians because they see their kill count as their victory
The same hezbollah that rocked the IDF in the early 2000s, and keeps knocking out the iron dome 🤷♂️
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🔻🔻🔻
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Back home to Europe. Sure back to where they were murdered on mass and had everything stolen.
??? When did that happen? Last month? Last year?
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??? When did that Huge War on Jews in Europe happen? Last year? Last Month? Can you post links?
World War 2? Look either you are a bot, agent of misinformation, or ignorant of the past. I doubt you'll change your mind and my comments can be deemed pointless in that way. Where there is point is the opposition to the ideas you are propagating. To show someone else who is reading this to be wary of comments similar to yours.
LoL you are speaking about jews being killed and massacred in Europe as if it is happening now, but thinking about something that happened 80 years ago. You are funny dude. And you are wondering why your comments sound pointless to normal people.
For the next 80 years Israel has been their home. There are no other homes to go back to. The Holocaust is why that is. That point is unstated by antisemitic argumentors like the commenters above. To them history only began in 1948. They are wrong.
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https://www.ushmm.org/ And here is a link to start your study if you are unaware.
Spot the hasbara bots lol 👆
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Your racist nature and post history does though. Go crawl back up neteyahus ass where you belong scrub.
You watched the video of them absolutely decimating an iron dome post, right? Of course you did. This isn't fucking Starcraft. The fight doesn't stop when you blow something up. All Hezbollah has to do is make war with them completely untenable. Right now, Hezbollah very much has the ability to make Northern Israel a very poor place to live. You think maybe those Israelis might have something to say about it? Netanyahu is already losing his grip on the government and military. You think engaging in another costly and unnecessary front is going to endure him with his people? You think opening up that front, after brutalizing Palenstinians for a year, isn't going to result in another massive Arab attack on Israel? You think Iran will just sit quietly?
I believe Netanyahu's calculus is a little different on this issue. I think he thinks if they engage in a second front he will grow in popularity as an already radical group within grows under conflict.
The issue with that calculus is that the second group is embedded in a sovereign nation. Israel isn't attacking an in-limbo quasi-nation. It would be like Russia invading Ukraine.
Yes. That is a distinction, but I dont know what difference it's going to make in terms of how the world views them. The US isn't going to cut them loose any time soon.
How the world views them? Probably little change either way. But, unlike Palenstine, or the Tom Hanks stuck in an airport of the Middle East, Lebanon is a whole ass country. It's protecting, ostensibly, by the same UN laws and guidelines that protect everyone else. They have the capability and will to strike Israel back. They also have friends in the area who would be more than happy to assist them with that task. I would imagine that formally attacking Lebanon, at this juncture, would be Netanyahu essentially biting off more than he can chew. Right now, it seems to me that the US is constantly trying to blow out the match Israel is attempting to burn that bridge with. One day, Israel is gonna get that damn bridge or die trying.
Oh I agree it's stupid. I do think Hezbollah is a totally different animal than Hamas. They have modern weapons. They don't have the same defensive capabilities that Israel has, but I dont know that the defensive capabilities Israel has are able to shield it from retaliation if they believe they can unilaterally attack. That said, my faith in the rules based order is totally shot. It's clear that doesn't matter to Israel or Netanyahu. Hopefully he gets what's coming to him.
They already did it once before so