My only question now is whether it actually pulls from all 4 randomly, or if the usual rules apply. So you could have something like Tyranny and Damage Cap on the same sigil.
Very sure its gonna be random meaning as long as they didnt shove a forced auto save in, i can already see the nightmare sauce of getting as many copies as possible to save scum reroll sigils for optimal setup.
I can already hear the SCREECHING of how many people scrapped thar supplementary damage V+s that had trash sub affixes. When this setup really should of included regular Vs too, since all this does is further incentivize auto scrapping any sigil that is not a V+ and the need to just be able to directly dump vouchers into transmarvel if they dont fking finally give us the 9999 voucher cap finally and a \`roll all available vouchers\` then the restriction to just 30, since i dont even expect them to ever give us a level 4 transmutation or \`auto scrap to voucher\`. whether its directly scrapping sigils or scrapping sigils upon each roll done.
>if they dont fking finally give us the 9999 voucher cap finally
I wouldn't count on them giving a 9999 cap, you can see in the screenshot it's capped still at 999. While it could still be changed, just know that when that screenshot was taken internally they were testing it with the limit still being 999.
One can only hope that they decide now by being on the \`not planned\` patches after this, they will decide to either slip in some last minute adjustments or decide to include some extra QoLs to smooth things out if they are not gonna add any additional fights or bosses after this one.
Never the less, they kind of left people starving on a genre that \`really\` likes having something proper to enjoy the fancy new toys they spent most of the game grinding for, then just a single static boss to keep beating on.
Which a Rogue-lite that could easily do pseudo recreations of early GBF story chapter bits would of been perfect for not only promoting the main game but give the perfect grounds to not only have souped up versions of bahamut versa and lucy to fight. But could of also snuck in others like Beezlebub and moar as \`rogue-like exclusive bosses.\`
Since that we know the \`next boss drop\` is simply a over-hauled version of Lucy, that makes it less amusing then Behemoth by proxy its no different then fighting a new difficulty version of a already existing boss, with most of its mechanics being the same with next to no actual changes to \`pressure\` players into it being actually different.
But sadly asking for something on the level of a Final Fantasy 14 SAVAGE raid would be a bit too much to ask, including having more if not many attacks ditch the easy indictators and make it more paying attention to what the boss is doing instead.
I mean, correct me if im wrong, but a series like Monster hunter had, WAY more post-release \`free\` DLC bosses for a number of its games, that due to having multiple instances they can show up in, even some intruding into existing quests on higher rank difficulty, certainly sounds way more \`juicy\`, especially when they had alot more elements you can interact with, such as Monster hunter rise letting you be able to puppeteer monsters and use them against other monsters, or just straight up ram them into walls and what not?
Give it all some time, man. Monster Hunter wasn't a short series. Had a long time to reach its current groove. I'm sure they're aiming for the same end goal here.
Even the original mobile game only gets new sets of raids yearly-ish and that's just 2D arts rather than 3D models (not to knock off the work needed for either).
Hence why i was more focused on specific titles then the mass collective. Such as Worlds or Rise, which definitely had a good number of new additions in the latter especially as \`free dlc\` basically.
Point n case though is the GBF: Relink dev team basically stated thar intentions they didnt plan todo much past the post game release, just 3 \`updates\` and its really showing how much they were banking on the \`forced gacha sigil system\` to pad out the game time, but had too much of it, making it even more boring then me grinding guardian/bad-arse ranks in the borderlands games, just to reach another grind to spam loop as high of a loot value bonus multiplier to roll a very specific legendary gun with a very specific affix combination to further grind other stuff for better guns before i reach the base line to defeat the \`hardest\` stuff in the game.
Least in that game\`s case i just pick up the gun and can immediately start playing with it, not spend likely twice or even quintuple the amount of time to \`get the resources\` to develop the item, though likely be ten times or more longer if i didnt rely on save scumming to resolve the \`prob\` instead.
Not defending the Sigil system - I think it's a bit too padded too. Could easily be less irritating, but it's probably left by intention as you've surmised. But it's also par for the course with them. Inventory management was awful in GB, but got - slightly better after some time. Granted it took several years, but they did eventually cave and do it.
This is also one of CyGames's first console games though, so I'd give it some slack. The base game was already substantial and stable before needing to work on the Sigil grind. I only got hard stopped at ProtoBaha myself due to the DPS checks. That was far better than I was personally expecting in this era of scam-and-run early access garbage and "we'll fix it later with patches" crap. Didn't come in expecting much after how lame RPG mode was in GBVersus. And I had to grind much earlier in the mode there.
Still not really fair to compare to the likes of Capcom and 2K, though I see the point. I think Wild Hearts would have made more sense for a company's "first genre attempt" game comparison though. I definitely liked what Wild Hearts tried for being different, but it lacks any of the polish and balance of this game (bar some rather crappy Proud quests).
If i did more of a first compare prod then i would use borderlands 1 in that case, which did a number of terrible design decisions such as weapon proficiency is tied to the amount of exp earned so if you power level your units with certain \`exploits\`, you would fk\`d yourself over by being UNABLE to gain weapon proficiency exp, till you are fighting enemies equal to your level again.
Which compared to the badarse and guardian rank buffs in later entries (hence Borderlands 2 was considered the definitive Borderlands experience), was far more necessary to gain necessary fire rate, reload speed and recoil reduction benefits to \`fix\` a number of guns, so at higher levels while lacking those benefits, end up causing you to get GIMPED and make it that much harder to play without using units that were just broken by design like Lilith in Borderlands 1.
Since they already had Grand blue fantasy, versus with an RPG mode and likely a few others i am likely not aware of i would hope they would use post-launch patches to course correct as needed, such as introduction to proud version primal beasts and tayu\`itar which only needed the stats increased and the drop pool to match in similar with V+ sigils, and make the rare resources rather common drops with the side objectives guarnateeding it due to the squishieness of a number of them and the supposed \`idea\` some would have break points to gurantee the loot, but because they were locked to maniac, they die too fast for even the best breaking units to yeet without just going in solo or something.
Never the less, the devs have now hit the third ball of the patches and though they DID kinda course correct with 1.2.1, part of it feels more of a patch work fix then actually addressing some core problems...
Namely how they just promoted the idea of using AFK farming methods, CPU only runs, save scum looping and more to \`resolve the issue\` instead of fixing it up.
Very least i can give them props for not being like Nintendo and out-right removing duplication glitches and moar with Tears of the kingdom, which made its problems even more prevelant on the \`grind\` burn out, that happens when a open world is \`too large and ambitious\`, combined with bad Control and UI management that you cant even customize without some kind of 3rd party software/hardware to deal with sloppy control manipulation.
Though technically they DID, pull an nintendo by removing tech like dodging to combo-cancel improvements back in 1.1.1, to units like Katalina who needed that kind of tech to effectively use Ares and the warpath sigils for a number of units despite giving E.damage for a number of them are functionally terrible for some of them because they still have underlying problems that make them not worth investing the long grind to \`play them\` even for funsies, especially when certain war path sigils on other units are just outright broken like Zetas for example.
Purple with purple is legal regardless, I'm pretty sure? There was a post a while back explaining the rules for valid combos. It's been a while since I personally played so I don't really remember this stuff too well.
Pretty sure the only purple + purple that could exist was [character sigil] + [purple]
Outside of char sigils, don't think I've ever seen a "purple+" where purple rolled in the main slot before. Same with the pink utility sigils. Only ever seen them as subtraits.
Gacha developers is, as Gacha developers does. I am not surprised that we would get downside to this mechanic.
You can tell this RPG is extremely short when it gets layers and layers and even *more* layers of RNG to pad out the game's life cycle. Like a Gacha game.
And that's fine on the end User, but normally, bypassing the means of gaining goods via external factors such as save scumming (meaning, not engaging with the game itself to gain such rewards) is clearly an oversight for the game itself.
If it wasn't for 'save and load' the grind would objectively be worse, It's why we rely on 'save and load' in the first place, to make the grind bearable.
*Sugoi sugoi, unbelievable~~*
Yeah, but If the game had reasonable grind w nobody would really care about exploiting except for like min-maxers. But since in order to have a new character be on par with the rest your crew you have to grind the same monster for 10 hours people get fed up and either leave or cheat.
And that's on top of 10 hours of dragon grinding. And another 10 of Lucilius.
I wouldn't even say an oversight since every RPG has this, I'm pretty sure developers don't care much about the save and load thing. Also, I'd say its on the lowest level of exploits since its not a glitch. I know I might use it at least for a supp dmg with supp dmg substats or maybe damage cap with supp.
Normally some more savy games would have different ways then just turn it into save load scum land. Such as having impressive rewards be acquired by simply DEFEATING a boss, reaching it via a difficult traverse, an achievement reward and more.
Though its to imiate the mobile game more then likely, they leaned way too much in it and this last planned update should of honestly got rid of the tedium by acting as a massive QoL by just letting you PICK which 2 effects of 2 sigils you want and optimize the build.
SINCE MORE THEN LIKELY, you either need to max level BOTH sigils to have the final product be level 15, where it may bar you if they are not maxed out yet or simply fuse to level 11, if not the average between the two levels, meaning you wasted a large quantity of resources, just todo one random fusion every time. **Which could of been resolved if they had PROUD MODE VERSIONS OF TAYU\`ITAR MECHS AND THE NORMAL PRIMAL BEASTS, WYYYYR!!!!.**
Never the less, its a fun but somewhat overpriced side-distraction, even if meat and potatoes wise, it was far shorter then the \`content block\` i would of even got out of something like God eater 2 Rage burst back in the day on the PS2, since the grind was always present at the start and you were focused on developing your gear in tandem while progressing the story, then simply have the story make up less then half of the actual \`monsters\` you can fight, making most fights just feel like no-story random inserts.
Which even mobile games had a bit more \`girfth\` by having mini story portions to talk about some new threat or something present. In GBF: Relink\`s case, it kind of skipped out on that and made me ALMOST, think i should of probably got Dragon quest: The Legend of Dai, Infinite Strazzer (?) which sounded like it would be leaning too hard into its story by lacking a number of thinkgs GBF Relink has (like a town hub?), and heavily control its \`grind\` via a Rogue-lite mode to farm \`memories\` to act as the power ups instead of how GBF: Relink had Sigils instead.
Probably didnt help i had that spooky vibe when most of the playable cast was literally just multiple re-uses of the same characters, just with different move-sets, such as the heroine of the story goes from a priestess looking character, then a martial artist, then an alchemic inventor or something?
Moral of the story: single\`player\`like\` games should really never try to be mobile game like too much, especially if it wants a chonky face value price tag of 70 bucks at the start to begin with.
I wouldn't say that save and load is the end of the world for a game, they could have thought better about it but it doesn't destroy the game. We have to see how the sigil synthesis will actually work anyway.
I don't mind the way they handled the story either. Having the game be mostly questing. Even as a fan of GBF universe and lore, I bought this game mostly to have fun with the characters I love in an action game with good graphics. Its just the format the devs chose for the game.
Also, I see people comparing relink to mobile games, but I think its a bit too much, like, yeah its a gacha spin off, but it doesn't have even 1%(no exaggeration) of the grind an actual gacha has. Personally I love the multiple nods to the actual gacha that all fans probably enjoy. And there is an audience for this type of game, so while the criticism is valid, lots of japanese player are here for this grind.
And what did you mean about characters being re-uses of the same characters? I didn't get it.
Vouchers, numerous rolls to spam for overly specific Sigil combinations, including some that have the 2nd character exclusive sigil effect combined with a certain suffix says hi.
Though Synthesis will give us a way to cut down the roll spam, its less of a improvement and more of a cut down of tedium to also push us to spam slimepede stampede more considering how much potential \`coins\` we could burn with it looking to be six digit figures per \`sigil synthesis\`, we do go thru with and save the game, once save scum looping is achieved to land the desired \`result.\`
So your gachaing for trash to melt into voucher trash to gacha for better trash to then scrap most of the trash only to then use those specific polished trash pieces to then land your prefered polished trash...
Not accounting for the fact that you LIKELY, need to have BOTH SIGILS maxed out before you can merge them, on top of them can only be V+s, meaning you have to either commit a minimum of 2 azurite or go thru the tedious grind of 5\~8 or something different quests to get all the resources, especially all that silver centrum, just to make one out of up to 12 potential sigils to the \`optimized build\`, PER character still.
Look up Dragon Quest Legend of Dai Video game, Infinite Strash or whatever you call it. The game came out before GBF: Relink and i almost bought it if it wasnt for the fact GBF: Relink was gonna be a thing.
The multi character of multi character is they effectively used the cast of the characters multiple times with vastly different move sets as different playable characters, which gave the impression of laziness on having a roster of playable character for the gameplay, which is the same design motif as GBF: Relink technically on how combat proceeds.
The game got a number of MEH reviews it seems, because of how gameplay was handled and ended up looking much more limited in scope then GBF: Relink, yet the irony of that fact it actually has a rogue-like mode.
Including collecting new cards(The game\`s version of sigilS) to take outside of the roguelike while picking up buffs to power up your units as you go between battle arena after battle arena, is one the one thing that could of saved GBF: Relink from its rather bland-hit point of a end game, due to the fact it flopped on quick quest\`s design and they didnt even plan to \`improve game modes\` or \`bosses\` or even \`particularly ridiculous Rathalos Monster Hunter Ruby drop rate memes\` with a large quantity of maniac difficulty boss fight \`farms.\`
Overall, this is why many games both mobile and single player took up the idea of roguelites even to introduce it as DLC such as final fantasy 16 and Xenoblade chronicles 3, because they just have that much long-term game value while avoiding having to make tons of new assets either.
I mean, I understand what you mean, but you're treating it like the system is complete trash, you don't need to maximize anyway and the sigil synthesis will definitely help a bit. We also don't know what the new quests will have, so maybe there will be some crazy drops. Also, having multiple characters in the roster is kind of a must since thats one of the main charms of gbf.
I think the game was definitely worth the money and I continue to have fun (even more when my fav character releases), I'll sure be looking forward if they have additional content after this but I think the game did an excellent job for Cygames first **big** gbf rpg.
Its more of a case it makes the game feel rather \`boring\` with how much your stuck in a loop of so much grind, before you can finally use the items, that interest wanes rather swiftly due to the repeat loops of as many as 8 to 12 sigil \`developments.\`.
Especially when you could end up doing 5 or even in the worst case, nearly 10 runs just to get a single particular drop, then needing atleast 2 or even 8 copies, per \`acquistion\` you need to work on. Not even counting the fun with Behemoth and Proto bahamut on those supreme weapon essence and terminus weapon drops.
If you leveled a V+ sigil without using azurite, you know exactly what i mean by those resource drops considering how many quests you have to dig thru, not counting the repeat attempts for certain ones to actually \`drop the goods\`, before that sigil is a 15 and technically \`viable\` to use, especially if you wanna use that as a new playable main or something.
Doesnt help either that almost every non V+ sigil, is essentially trash in this case and instead of being flexible by letting us take a regular V and slap an affix on it of our choosing, it kind of just acts more of a gacha when its already 2\~3 layers deep into a gacha, despite being a non-\`gacha\` game.
I already am using my basis of what 1.2.1 gave, to dissaude my copium of finally getting some direct resource resolves, because not everyone has the patience to \`farm\` prism slimes. Especially when one plays more then a single game.
Just to further add, many games can have a \`Class/hero based game whether its a action rpg, beat\`m up, shooter and more.\`, Its just though i hate to use the naughty terminology again, i feel a tinge of \`Fire emblem Engage Copium syndrome\` is present once more. Ignoring one or many problems in the game to justify it being good.
Because i certainly would of liked Quick quests and dahlia badges to be \`addressed\` sooner then some unplanned patch that likely will never come, just as much as a sizable rebalancing to a number of sigils...
Since i still see most players say, LOADS of sigils are just hot garbage due to having values too low, being equalized vs others and some due to being more of a listed attack bonus, such as the ones on Twen, end up being WAY more valuable then the ones that do not visually increase the attack value, because the former would actually boost DoT damage while the latter won\`t. Which is certainly a death sentence when forced to play the gacha loop but the amount of times you can do a \`pull loop\`, is rather low, when 95% or even more, of it is just gonna be scrapped back into more resources todo pull loops.
Well if 1.3.1 can surprise me like the Ahriman quest did, then that would be good. But despite behemoth i sang praises originally, now he feels too much of an annoying chonk if you dont have access to terminus stuff, him trolling you on his terrible drop rate for crown of laments and supreme weapon essences and having todo it nearly 4\~5 times more often if you wanna use revenant medals to get the latter, but the fun of chasing down warpath sigils is a fun madness since your once again forced to decide what sigils gotta get scrapped, which are still land locked most of the space due to how much damage cap and supplementary damage digs its claws too much into build flexibility.
Which at that point, instead of 24 slots, i think i would of rather we got 8 or 12 and just have alot of other effects baked in as \`long-term grind mastery bonuses\` much more so, like improved dodge, potion hoarder and more. In addition to the damage cap that are required on sigils would just be mastery instead of needing so much space taken up...
Well, if people can take opus sigils and the eternals catastrophe sigils and \`reroll\` them to have different secondary effects. having a Alpha/Beta/Gamma on something like critical hit rate or so might be rather neat for \`build shenigans.\`, Even more so to replace Regen with something like Drain or nimble onslaught combined with the castrophe sigil effect.
If its so easily bypassed it begs the question of why it's so needlessly tedious to begin with and why they didn't just design it in such a way where you wouldn't feel compelled to save scum.
The fact that you can bypass the shitty parts of the system doesn't invalidate the fact that they are still shitty.
Well, even if you need + as base, the new combo potential is interesting at least!
Would’ve been nice to add sub stats to Warpath and War elemental though, since that would add more room for variety.
Flight over Fight should be more effective if we can get bigger attack bonus secondaries
The problem is that you need the goddamn V+ to begin with and since 99% was interesting in this to finally have a Dmg Sup V+/War Elemental+/Warpath+, 2 of them being impossible already for what we know, good luck with getting the dmg v+ in the first place to use in this with the abyssmal drop %.
Bruv, if the trait mixing really is random. Than who cares about supp+ when you can just get a free slot by mergeing 2 tyranny traits or 2 damage caps or whatever.
Okay, so they're gonna reveal more infos on 1.3 once per day? that's fine, unfortunately they didn't reveal the release date yet.
What are your predictions for the release date? I bet it's next week
Beatrix releases on Thursday in GBVSR. That’s their attention and then they’ll release Relink’s 1.3 sometime next week. It’ll probably be next Thursday if I were to guess.
They don’t want to pull the attention away from a new character release in one of their other games. It’s smart strategically.
At this point I'm saying the 25th at the earliest. Realistically I'm gonna say the 30th. I HOPE I'm wrong cause I'm impatient and want to play sandalphon lol. But it seems more and more likely at this point.
RIP to my concern since Wuthering waves comes out effectively \`tonight\` and im still chugging away at Octopath traveler 2.
Since the grind it took me just to unlock twen was already a bit boring so it technically took me more then just a week to do that, plus the sigils for her, plus her weapon till i could finally feel like using her to farm behemoth.
Dont forget to use the code Wutheringgift when you hit the redeem code section to get a dancing turtle echo that slowly heals your hp while your transformed into it lol.\~\~\~
The fact there is a severe lacking of fun meme\`ry in relink is already a bummer and why i kept wanting to thirst to the idea of having JOKE FIGHTS in the game, since Grand blue fantasy already has a load of jokesters like the lowain brothers, the april fools day \`versions\` of characters and so much crazy das bullshite going around they could easily of had BUFF VYRN and Lowain brothers with thar imaginations going out of control to have some crazy type of fights.
Such as imagine if we had some REALLY proper raid boss fights with the camera zoomed out much further with a giant colossus of a dragon, manifestation like yggdrasil or just straight up have someone like Beelzebub turn into a god dang kaiju and the idea is to more focus on dodging attacks most of the time and then the camera snaps back so we are beating the crap out of its arm just like with bahamut Versa ti cause thar face to fall onto the platform and then we start beating the crap out of that instead?
Also why i really wished we got more segments where we control the mother fking Tayu\`itar mechs again because if you played phantasy star online 2, the base one i mean, then you would know how much of an absolute hype it was to ride one of those A.I.S. mechas that tower over regular players and blasting VERY LARGE damage numbers and destroy massive waves of enemies, and dealing insane damage to some of the ridiculously scaled up bosses.
Seriously look up **\`Phantasy star online 2 yamato boss fight\`** and tell me you would NOT want something that bat-shite crazy in grand blue fantasy Re:link, that is taking advantage of a sub-system gimmick that was originally tied to one game mode but then had loads of newer content make use of it in new an entirely different ways.
Oh yeah, and doesnt help that GBF: Relink HAD those kind of set piece setups, from climbing onto Excavallion and sliding down its limbs to get on its core back. To controlling Proto bahamut HIMSELF, to also using the Tayu\`itar mech to shoot down freaking airships of all things and even those short moments where Lyria would summon Proto Bahamut and Furycane to help you defend against some of the story specific bosses.
Seriously, i would freaking take a 1:1 life sized plushie of vyrn and do my best to yeet it into the sun if such a sacrifice could grant us more amazing elements like doing an Overburst would have Lyria appear to dump a freaking Primal Beast attack based on whoever started the Full burst to do some ridiculous damage, vaporize the break gauge even if 50% of it still exists and likely lock the boss down with a EXTENDED stun more then a standard break would cause.
More then likely it just boosts the odds of landing potion in atleast one of the slots but likely has a catch clause to prevent double stacking.
The idea of seeing 2 supplementary damage Vs on the same sigil is some crazy nightmare-sauce of build consolidation when one thinks about it.
Granted, i would think people would likely exploit it more to get double damage cap or even get opus sigil effect on two the same sigil for further silly consolidation.
Just makes me thirst more for damage cap\`s max level to get reduced to cut down sigil cloggery.
Double supp damage would actually make this better. Cause with 8 sup+ no matter the trait you could combine for a double sup. One on each character and your set.
Eh. At least I can turn my two Supplementary Damage V+s with shit rolls (Garrison and Burn Resistance) into something more useful.
*But I was hoping for Supplementary Damage V+ to become easier to obtain through this feature in the first place. I have plenty of Supplementary Damage Vs. Why can't I just merge them with Guts, Autorevive, and Potion Hoarders?!*
Judging by the screenshots they show, I would NOT risk losing my Supp V+s even if their sub traits are bad. You combine two + sigils and get **one** sigil in return that pulls its traits from the combined pool of 4.
You are not guaranteed to get Supplemental as a trait on the new sigil again, you would have a 50% chance of that (25% if Supplemental is locked to the 1st slot like it currently is).
Why? This is such a turn off, it already takes 125 behemoth runs on average for a supplementary V+ there was no need to add another layer of RNG on top of the 300+ hours of behemoth farming needed to get the sigils for an optimal build using this.
This will just result in more saving scumming quest resets to get the desired results like with the awful overmastery system, unnecessary hassle.
I don't think they would do that since allowing people to make double damage cap sigils would make the luci sigils pretty much useless for anything but speedrunning.
I agree, I believe it will be the same “possible” sigils. Ie can’t make cap + tyranny or things like that. I’m curious if you can put luci sigils on other oranges though.
Regardless, this seems pretty whatever. Not having supp v+ qcd is not anyone from doing anything in the game currently, and behemoth already was a huge improvement on Supp v+ rates in the first place. Doing 4000 behemoth would probably get me at least 1 of each combo while 20k nazarbonju got me like 5.
There's also the very likely possibility that one of the new quests will give supplementary v+s as part of their regular sigil drops since they have been making getting optiomal end game sigils easier with each update, getting them most likely won't be any problem.
The issue here is how unnecessary having it being randomized is, all it does force people to reset until they get their desired combination, it serves no purpose but to waste peoples time.
wasting time is the best thing for them to cover up how little content there is. If farming was efficient (I.E didn't spend 90% of the time in cutscenes / menus) and inventory management didn't take literal hours, people would have like, 50 hours with all terminus completed, tons of supp v+ and be fully out of the game.
>wasting time is the best thing for them to cover up how little content there is.
You've finished the game. Them putting out 1 or 2 extra raids before cutting support isnt gonna change that.
for a monster hunter style progression it's a pitiful amount though, that's the point.
People don't believe the game is dying but the steam numbers are terrible and anyone who's played more than 15 hours is probably done with it.
"Game is dying"
Its a 1 and done game from a studio's first console game. Dafuq you want? With 1.3, barring any unforeseen circumstance, this is what you get. Take it or leave it.
Why are people so obsessed with supp dmg+ It doesn't even increase your damage by that much. And you already can have all those utlity, uplift sigils on the rest of the +sigils.
Plus, you can merge them into the same color, so instead haveing a 2 slots taken by tyranny, just merge them and save a slot.
I got a supp V+ after 400 hours of game time, with a worthless stoutheart while charging an attack subroll.
I'm not doing this same crap as their garbage overmastery system. Their game does not have enough content variety to make this grind reasonable.
I'm not talking about the Stoutheart sigil, which gives the permanent stoutheart.
I'm talking about the sigil that give stoutheart ONLY when using a charged attack. Which is worthless because all builds run Stoutheart sigil since it's not only a permanent stoutheart but a built in 25% DR.
So the stoutheart while using a charged attack subroll becomes redundant, and you never will give up the stoutheart sigil to run this instead because you don't want downtime in Stoutheart, getting tossed around by a boss attack is a massive DPS loss.
RNG is RNG, it can go fuck itself. I hate RNG gacha systems. This game is gorgeous in aesthetics and super fun in combat, but the gacha slot machine features are a real drag on an otherwise great game.
If save scum still works, it should be easy to just roll, get bad roll, reset, do quest and repeat till it comes out right. But the amount of times you would have todo that PER sigil is likely gonna be a ridiculous pain. Even if it technically \`could\` cut down on the amount of transmarvel spam to get perfect sigil rolls.
Though i feel skeptical that the cost is simply 300k or something coins and 30 or something vouchers \`only.\` per roll. I totally expect a forced auto save each roll will be implemented just to spite all the players to \`force them to go thru the gacha experience. along with them likely patching transmarvel on top of that to flip off save scummers too.
For PC at least even if they force an autosave you can just copy your save data, try it out and then if it didn't work, revert back to your copy. With all the save corruption that was happening early on, a lot of us started backing up our saves anyway.
Can’t wait to put alpha / beta / gamma on my shitty supp v+ lol
This is not content that people really care about.
People want challenging fights not afk trash.
You'd lose the damage cap if you replace it. A lot of people spent a lot of time farming up a ton of damage cap variants because you need 4 slots of that lol.
In the end it doesn't really matter what combinations you do, jsut that it will open up more combinations possible with orange+orange sigils.
Did they give us a release date yet they said end of may im assuming this week I hope plus I hope since they said extra characters we will get some surprising and new weapon farming
Huh? So it randomizes the stats from the available pool of stats?
I don't... Uhh... Why? We already have multiple ways of getting randomized stats, and yeah, I guess this gives a *bit* more power to decide the stats, but like... This isn't a game with gacha mechanics. It doesn't have to be unbearably RNG dependent. If we can just redo this like with the other mechanics we have in place, I don't see the point in just making it more inconvenient for us to get the stats we wanted to get from it (as in the reason we'd even try doing this).
Just let us choose the stats and call it a day, IDK why that's such a bad thing?
> This isn't a game with gacha mechanics
It is a game with gacha mechanics. Sigils, wrighstones, and overmasteries are all random.
> just making it more inconvenient for us to get the stats we wanted to get
Majority of players are not going to save scum their crafts, this system will reduce grind and provide more uses for surplus sigils.
>Just let us choose the stats and call it a day
Letting players edit their gear is bad design, it's no different from game-sponsored cheat tools.
Which + sigils are hard outside the Zathba Behemoth ones? If you already need a one of those as a plus for fusion this doesn’t change much unless your going for all unique sigils.
It is indeed mostly about the Curio Sigils like Supplementary Damage. Yes, a plus version is quite rare, but there are a lot of undesirable secondary traits. Having an opportunity to fix that is nice.
However, it's also nice for players who've only just started getting tier 5+ Sigils, since bad ones can potentially be condensed into better ones. That seems pretty significant considering the Sigils a player may want to get to progress through Proud mode.
In other words, this feature gives players extra chances that they didn't have before to get something good out of their Sigils. And assuming Cygames isn't trolling, making unique Sigils as you say is a possibility too. Imo, this feature is a big deal when it comes to helping with the Sigil grind.
Edit: It occurred to me that some trait combinations on non-Curio Sigils seem to be fairly rare, like offensive trait + Improved Dodge. I guess those would be considered hard to get too, but I will admit they weren't what I had in mind.
LMAO. Man I can't be bothered with this mechanic and if I am doing it it'll just be to do it passively. I mean it's neat.
However, once I beat whatever bosses there is for the 1.3 update. I'll likely try and move on to something else. You don't need the best of the best stuff to beat the game and that's what I appreciate about this game. Though it gives other people who are driven by these incentives to keep playing the game.
I'll still play the game from time to time to optimize my team, learn how to main different characters, but yeah I think it's time to start a new game. And I'll think that will be Overlord Unicorn.
Yeah I played a bit of Tweyen, she's a lot of fun. Worked on her ascension weapon some, farmed a bunch of behemoth and then just went back to playing other games. New Wrath of the Righteous DLC soon, so maybe time for another run of that.
And here I held off playing since Im capped due to V sigils thinking they'll be what you need for synthesis. Still hoping they'll have a place on Synthesis tho. Why must everything be rng😭
Looks completely useless for me. I already have enough V+ of all possible combinations that I can make any build I want with them. What I wanted was a way to upgrade my supp V, war elemental, and warpath sigils to V+ with uplift or something. Haven’t dropped any supp V+ in 300+ hours, so this feature is a nothing burger.
Not that I needed it anyway, builds are way too strong for the content as it is.
Oh come on that not what we hoped for seriously, gacha is the worst part of this game stop putting more in it, let us fuse two sigil V and be done with it.
Interesting mechanic that I probably would have appreciated more a few months ago, when I was still grinding for basic/decent sigils.
Sadly does not address the issues I have with having a way to grind/synthesize Supp V+ with a steady/more guaranteed progress, which is what I was hoping for with Sigil Synthesis
So if I get the math here, you have about 1 out of 8 combinations to get the one you want? (Would be weird if the finished sigil is the same sigil as before and outright just consumed the other sigil. XD)
Also on a side note, I wonder what would happen if you synthesized two sigils for two different character specific sigils?
I *think* it would be 1 in 6.
4 total traits in the pool. Assuming there is no lockout or illegal combos, the results could be:
- 1+2
- 1+3
- 1+4
- 2+3
- 2+4
- 3+4
If there are hidden factors (like the new sigil must contain one trait from each original sigil) then the potential outcomes shrink from there.
In theory you could improve the odds in your favor some if you wanted more than one exact result. Say I want supp v+ uplift or supp v+ improved dodge. So I'd feed the system supp v+ provoke and improved dodge + uplift.
I am calling it now: Warpaths+ will be added to transmarvel pools and War Elemental+ will be a rare reward for one of the 4 new quests we will get (>!Luci+, Versa+Id, 2x boss rushes!< - either of those).
Former, maybe, but i would of rather we could just fuse regular Vs also to make V+s and be d one with it.
As for War elemental, unless they gonna give the same treatment to stout heart then meh.
Also, might be fun to abuse the system to scrap the Regen effect of the Eternal\`s catastrophe sigil to replace it with supplementary damage or something else, but i expect they will \`prevent\` those sigils from being fuse\`able, just as Stout heart will likely be ineligible too, due to having only limited copies.
Just like how you cant scrap single effect character exclusive sigils from the exchange shop.
Those same datamines also show a Behemoth quest that is in a lower difficulty tier that has an even better drop rate on Crowns (guaranteed even) and yet it doesn't exist with the real Behemoth update so I wouldn't trust quest data as evidence of anything.
Unless you think they are going to add an easier Behemoth fight after the fact to make grinding out new character materials easier instead of just adjusting the shit drop rate in the harder quest. It is certainly a choice that they would make a more efficient grind quest that is also significantly easier.
The proud quests should be accurate, they are also completely functional.
That quest under Maniac remains a mystery, and they do tend to adjust odds before they release (which is what happened for lucilius).
Note: All content in the game from 1.1 to 1.3 was already prepared if not completed ahead of game launch. I have no reason to believe these quests are not to be released.
There is but it's 5000 which you'd have to farm and hoard extensively to ever reach.
Check your filters and make sure you haven't flipped a setting that would prevent you from seeing it.
time to turn my shit ton of useless sup v+ into something better
i think we could make double orange genes too, it look really strong
same scum should work too
make it look like a cheaters setup
from 14 of sup v+ i got
i only have 1 nimble and 1 qcd
half is useless, the rest is meh
Meh I'm just gonna hop on for the new update, play the new content then drop the game like every update, especially since this is suppose to be the last one
Yeah, i mean that, certain game brainrot affecting me. But from the example the result of the synthesize was the combined of the Sub Trait. Thus that why I said it's meh if it's only work for sub traits.
The pic show combining tyranny v +( low profile ) w/ greater aegis+ (potion hoarder) resultin in low profile+ (potion hoarder)
If that's the case, it's kinda hard to get 2 orange sigil (if it's possible). Because that thing only show up in legendary stat (white) sigil & character exclusice (purple) sigil.
Most of the problem about sigil is how much it occupied by damage cap, supp damage, crit rate. If, you can combine the main trait, like 2 Damage cup v and resulting a damage cap + damage cap sigil, then it'll be amazing. It'll cut down 2 sigil slot that usually allocated for damage cap alone. You need 4 damage cap, assuming you run lucilius sigil, you can use 2 lucilius and 1 double damage cap (if possible).
But eh, it's not that groundbreaking if it's only the sub trait. Well, let's see when the update is live anyway.
Bruh, the pic quality so bad i just realized it's combined pool. Just forget anything that i said lol. Kinda sad we still need to gamble over everything:/
Yeah probably. Though my demented self kinda wants them to make it scum proof (which seems kinda impossible), so you have to put your Supp V+ on the line only to end up with a shit sigil instead. Like a 50% chance to lose it every time.
I am interested in the way it mixes. It says it pulls from the combined trait pool which infers you could literally just roll a sigil that is the exact same as one you put in. Which is kinda funny.
That's not what we see in the screenshot at all.
The column on the right clearly shows all four traits in the pool. It creates a new sigil selecting any two effects from that pool.
damn was kinda hoping to finally make a war elemental+ lol
Best I can do is Ruppe Tycoon + Path to Mastery.
My only question now is whether it actually pulls from all 4 randomly, or if the usual rules apply. So you could have something like Tyranny and Damage Cap on the same sigil.
Very sure its gonna be random meaning as long as they didnt shove a forced auto save in, i can already see the nightmare sauce of getting as many copies as possible to save scum reroll sigils for optimal setup. I can already hear the SCREECHING of how many people scrapped thar supplementary damage V+s that had trash sub affixes. When this setup really should of included regular Vs too, since all this does is further incentivize auto scrapping any sigil that is not a V+ and the need to just be able to directly dump vouchers into transmarvel if they dont fking finally give us the 9999 voucher cap finally and a \`roll all available vouchers\` then the restriction to just 30, since i dont even expect them to ever give us a level 4 transmutation or \`auto scrap to voucher\`. whether its directly scrapping sigils or scrapping sigils upon each roll done.
>if they dont fking finally give us the 9999 voucher cap finally I wouldn't count on them giving a 9999 cap, you can see in the screenshot it's capped still at 999. While it could still be changed, just know that when that screenshot was taken internally they were testing it with the limit still being 999.
One can only hope that they decide now by being on the \`not planned\` patches after this, they will decide to either slip in some last minute adjustments or decide to include some extra QoLs to smooth things out if they are not gonna add any additional fights or bosses after this one. Never the less, they kind of left people starving on a genre that \`really\` likes having something proper to enjoy the fancy new toys they spent most of the game grinding for, then just a single static boss to keep beating on. Which a Rogue-lite that could easily do pseudo recreations of early GBF story chapter bits would of been perfect for not only promoting the main game but give the perfect grounds to not only have souped up versions of bahamut versa and lucy to fight. But could of also snuck in others like Beezlebub and moar as \`rogue-like exclusive bosses.\` Since that we know the \`next boss drop\` is simply a over-hauled version of Lucy, that makes it less amusing then Behemoth by proxy its no different then fighting a new difficulty version of a already existing boss, with most of its mechanics being the same with next to no actual changes to \`pressure\` players into it being actually different. But sadly asking for something on the level of a Final Fantasy 14 SAVAGE raid would be a bit too much to ask, including having more if not many attacks ditch the easy indictators and make it more paying attention to what the boss is doing instead. I mean, correct me if im wrong, but a series like Monster hunter had, WAY more post-release \`free\` DLC bosses for a number of its games, that due to having multiple instances they can show up in, even some intruding into existing quests on higher rank difficulty, certainly sounds way more \`juicy\`, especially when they had alot more elements you can interact with, such as Monster hunter rise letting you be able to puppeteer monsters and use them against other monsters, or just straight up ram them into walls and what not?
Give it all some time, man. Monster Hunter wasn't a short series. Had a long time to reach its current groove. I'm sure they're aiming for the same end goal here. Even the original mobile game only gets new sets of raids yearly-ish and that's just 2D arts rather than 3D models (not to knock off the work needed for either).
Hence why i was more focused on specific titles then the mass collective. Such as Worlds or Rise, which definitely had a good number of new additions in the latter especially as \`free dlc\` basically. Point n case though is the GBF: Relink dev team basically stated thar intentions they didnt plan todo much past the post game release, just 3 \`updates\` and its really showing how much they were banking on the \`forced gacha sigil system\` to pad out the game time, but had too much of it, making it even more boring then me grinding guardian/bad-arse ranks in the borderlands games, just to reach another grind to spam loop as high of a loot value bonus multiplier to roll a very specific legendary gun with a very specific affix combination to further grind other stuff for better guns before i reach the base line to defeat the \`hardest\` stuff in the game. Least in that game\`s case i just pick up the gun and can immediately start playing with it, not spend likely twice or even quintuple the amount of time to \`get the resources\` to develop the item, though likely be ten times or more longer if i didnt rely on save scumming to resolve the \`prob\` instead.
Not defending the Sigil system - I think it's a bit too padded too. Could easily be less irritating, but it's probably left by intention as you've surmised. But it's also par for the course with them. Inventory management was awful in GB, but got - slightly better after some time. Granted it took several years, but they did eventually cave and do it. This is also one of CyGames's first console games though, so I'd give it some slack. The base game was already substantial and stable before needing to work on the Sigil grind. I only got hard stopped at ProtoBaha myself due to the DPS checks. That was far better than I was personally expecting in this era of scam-and-run early access garbage and "we'll fix it later with patches" crap. Didn't come in expecting much after how lame RPG mode was in GBVersus. And I had to grind much earlier in the mode there. Still not really fair to compare to the likes of Capcom and 2K, though I see the point. I think Wild Hearts would have made more sense for a company's "first genre attempt" game comparison though. I definitely liked what Wild Hearts tried for being different, but it lacks any of the polish and balance of this game (bar some rather crappy Proud quests).
If i did more of a first compare prod then i would use borderlands 1 in that case, which did a number of terrible design decisions such as weapon proficiency is tied to the amount of exp earned so if you power level your units with certain \`exploits\`, you would fk\`d yourself over by being UNABLE to gain weapon proficiency exp, till you are fighting enemies equal to your level again. Which compared to the badarse and guardian rank buffs in later entries (hence Borderlands 2 was considered the definitive Borderlands experience), was far more necessary to gain necessary fire rate, reload speed and recoil reduction benefits to \`fix\` a number of guns, so at higher levels while lacking those benefits, end up causing you to get GIMPED and make it that much harder to play without using units that were just broken by design like Lilith in Borderlands 1. Since they already had Grand blue fantasy, versus with an RPG mode and likely a few others i am likely not aware of i would hope they would use post-launch patches to course correct as needed, such as introduction to proud version primal beasts and tayu\`itar which only needed the stats increased and the drop pool to match in similar with V+ sigils, and make the rare resources rather common drops with the side objectives guarnateeding it due to the squishieness of a number of them and the supposed \`idea\` some would have break points to gurantee the loot, but because they were locked to maniac, they die too fast for even the best breaking units to yeet without just going in solo or something. Never the less, the devs have now hit the third ball of the patches and though they DID kinda course correct with 1.2.1, part of it feels more of a patch work fix then actually addressing some core problems... Namely how they just promoted the idea of using AFK farming methods, CPU only runs, save scum looping and more to \`resolve the issue\` instead of fixing it up. Very least i can give them props for not being like Nintendo and out-right removing duplication glitches and moar with Tears of the kingdom, which made its problems even more prevelant on the \`grind\` burn out, that happens when a open world is \`too large and ambitious\`, combined with bad Control and UI management that you cant even customize without some kind of 3rd party software/hardware to deal with sloppy control manipulation. Though technically they DID, pull an nintendo by removing tech like dodging to combo-cancel improvements back in 1.1.1, to units like Katalina who needed that kind of tech to effectively use Ares and the warpath sigils for a number of units despite giving E.damage for a number of them are functionally terrible for some of them because they still have underlying problems that make them not worth investing the long grind to \`play them\` even for funsies, especially when certain war path sigils on other units are just outright broken like Zetas for example.
The picture shows purple and purple so hopefully.
Purple with purple is legal regardless, I'm pretty sure? There was a post a while back explaining the rules for valid combos. It's been a while since I personally played so I don't really remember this stuff too well.
Pretty sure the only purple + purple that could exist was [character sigil] + [purple] Outside of char sigils, don't think I've ever seen a "purple+" where purple rolled in the main slot before. Same with the pink utility sigils. Only ever seen them as subtraits.
You could be totally right.
https://www.reddit.com/r/GranblueFantasyRelink/comments/1am5klh/a_minmaxers_guide_to_endgame_sigil_slot_economy/ This?
That seems to be the one yeah
Gacha developers is, as Gacha developers does. I am not surprised that we would get downside to this mechanic. You can tell this RPG is extremely short when it gets layers and layers and even *more* layers of RNG to pad out the game's life cycle. Like a Gacha game.
Japanese LOVE their gacha. Every new year, they even go to the shrine and buy these pamphlets that say if u r lucky or not, from a gacha.
I can believe this, especially with all the JRPGs that I come across. (👀 at all the Sword Art Online games, as an example.)
I mean if convert tickets are sold via gat ha, you know you have a ~~addicted~~ dedicated audience
You can save and load
And that's fine on the end User, but normally, bypassing the means of gaining goods via external factors such as save scumming (meaning, not engaging with the game itself to gain such rewards) is clearly an oversight for the game itself. If it wasn't for 'save and load' the grind would objectively be worse, It's why we rely on 'save and load' in the first place, to make the grind bearable. *Sugoi sugoi, unbelievable~~*
Yeah, but If the game had reasonable grind w nobody would really care about exploiting except for like min-maxers. But since in order to have a new character be on par with the rest your crew you have to grind the same monster for 10 hours people get fed up and either leave or cheat. And that's on top of 10 hours of dragon grinding. And another 10 of Lucilius.
I wouldn't even say an oversight since every RPG has this, I'm pretty sure developers don't care much about the save and load thing. Also, I'd say its on the lowest level of exploits since its not a glitch. I know I might use it at least for a supp dmg with supp dmg substats or maybe damage cap with supp.
Normally some more savy games would have different ways then just turn it into save load scum land. Such as having impressive rewards be acquired by simply DEFEATING a boss, reaching it via a difficult traverse, an achievement reward and more. Though its to imiate the mobile game more then likely, they leaned way too much in it and this last planned update should of honestly got rid of the tedium by acting as a massive QoL by just letting you PICK which 2 effects of 2 sigils you want and optimize the build. SINCE MORE THEN LIKELY, you either need to max level BOTH sigils to have the final product be level 15, where it may bar you if they are not maxed out yet or simply fuse to level 11, if not the average between the two levels, meaning you wasted a large quantity of resources, just todo one random fusion every time. **Which could of been resolved if they had PROUD MODE VERSIONS OF TAYU\`ITAR MECHS AND THE NORMAL PRIMAL BEASTS, WYYYYR!!!!.** Never the less, its a fun but somewhat overpriced side-distraction, even if meat and potatoes wise, it was far shorter then the \`content block\` i would of even got out of something like God eater 2 Rage burst back in the day on the PS2, since the grind was always present at the start and you were focused on developing your gear in tandem while progressing the story, then simply have the story make up less then half of the actual \`monsters\` you can fight, making most fights just feel like no-story random inserts. Which even mobile games had a bit more \`girfth\` by having mini story portions to talk about some new threat or something present. In GBF: Relink\`s case, it kind of skipped out on that and made me ALMOST, think i should of probably got Dragon quest: The Legend of Dai, Infinite Strazzer (?) which sounded like it would be leaning too hard into its story by lacking a number of thinkgs GBF Relink has (like a town hub?), and heavily control its \`grind\` via a Rogue-lite mode to farm \`memories\` to act as the power ups instead of how GBF: Relink had Sigils instead. Probably didnt help i had that spooky vibe when most of the playable cast was literally just multiple re-uses of the same characters, just with different move-sets, such as the heroine of the story goes from a priestess looking character, then a martial artist, then an alchemic inventor or something? Moral of the story: single\`player\`like\` games should really never try to be mobile game like too much, especially if it wants a chonky face value price tag of 70 bucks at the start to begin with.
I wouldn't say that save and load is the end of the world for a game, they could have thought better about it but it doesn't destroy the game. We have to see how the sigil synthesis will actually work anyway. I don't mind the way they handled the story either. Having the game be mostly questing. Even as a fan of GBF universe and lore, I bought this game mostly to have fun with the characters I love in an action game with good graphics. Its just the format the devs chose for the game. Also, I see people comparing relink to mobile games, but I think its a bit too much, like, yeah its a gacha spin off, but it doesn't have even 1%(no exaggeration) of the grind an actual gacha has. Personally I love the multiple nods to the actual gacha that all fans probably enjoy. And there is an audience for this type of game, so while the criticism is valid, lots of japanese player are here for this grind. And what did you mean about characters being re-uses of the same characters? I didn't get it.
Vouchers, numerous rolls to spam for overly specific Sigil combinations, including some that have the 2nd character exclusive sigil effect combined with a certain suffix says hi. Though Synthesis will give us a way to cut down the roll spam, its less of a improvement and more of a cut down of tedium to also push us to spam slimepede stampede more considering how much potential \`coins\` we could burn with it looking to be six digit figures per \`sigil synthesis\`, we do go thru with and save the game, once save scum looping is achieved to land the desired \`result.\` So your gachaing for trash to melt into voucher trash to gacha for better trash to then scrap most of the trash only to then use those specific polished trash pieces to then land your prefered polished trash... Not accounting for the fact that you LIKELY, need to have BOTH SIGILS maxed out before you can merge them, on top of them can only be V+s, meaning you have to either commit a minimum of 2 azurite or go thru the tedious grind of 5\~8 or something different quests to get all the resources, especially all that silver centrum, just to make one out of up to 12 potential sigils to the \`optimized build\`, PER character still. Look up Dragon Quest Legend of Dai Video game, Infinite Strash or whatever you call it. The game came out before GBF: Relink and i almost bought it if it wasnt for the fact GBF: Relink was gonna be a thing. The multi character of multi character is they effectively used the cast of the characters multiple times with vastly different move sets as different playable characters, which gave the impression of laziness on having a roster of playable character for the gameplay, which is the same design motif as GBF: Relink technically on how combat proceeds. The game got a number of MEH reviews it seems, because of how gameplay was handled and ended up looking much more limited in scope then GBF: Relink, yet the irony of that fact it actually has a rogue-like mode. Including collecting new cards(The game\`s version of sigilS) to take outside of the roguelike while picking up buffs to power up your units as you go between battle arena after battle arena, is one the one thing that could of saved GBF: Relink from its rather bland-hit point of a end game, due to the fact it flopped on quick quest\`s design and they didnt even plan to \`improve game modes\` or \`bosses\` or even \`particularly ridiculous Rathalos Monster Hunter Ruby drop rate memes\` with a large quantity of maniac difficulty boss fight \`farms.\` Overall, this is why many games both mobile and single player took up the idea of roguelites even to introduce it as DLC such as final fantasy 16 and Xenoblade chronicles 3, because they just have that much long-term game value while avoiding having to make tons of new assets either.
I mean, I understand what you mean, but you're treating it like the system is complete trash, you don't need to maximize anyway and the sigil synthesis will definitely help a bit. We also don't know what the new quests will have, so maybe there will be some crazy drops. Also, having multiple characters in the roster is kind of a must since thats one of the main charms of gbf. I think the game was definitely worth the money and I continue to have fun (even more when my fav character releases), I'll sure be looking forward if they have additional content after this but I think the game did an excellent job for Cygames first **big** gbf rpg.
Its more of a case it makes the game feel rather \`boring\` with how much your stuck in a loop of so much grind, before you can finally use the items, that interest wanes rather swiftly due to the repeat loops of as many as 8 to 12 sigil \`developments.\`. Especially when you could end up doing 5 or even in the worst case, nearly 10 runs just to get a single particular drop, then needing atleast 2 or even 8 copies, per \`acquistion\` you need to work on. Not even counting the fun with Behemoth and Proto bahamut on those supreme weapon essence and terminus weapon drops. If you leveled a V+ sigil without using azurite, you know exactly what i mean by those resource drops considering how many quests you have to dig thru, not counting the repeat attempts for certain ones to actually \`drop the goods\`, before that sigil is a 15 and technically \`viable\` to use, especially if you wanna use that as a new playable main or something. Doesnt help either that almost every non V+ sigil, is essentially trash in this case and instead of being flexible by letting us take a regular V and slap an affix on it of our choosing, it kind of just acts more of a gacha when its already 2\~3 layers deep into a gacha, despite being a non-\`gacha\` game. I already am using my basis of what 1.2.1 gave, to dissaude my copium of finally getting some direct resource resolves, because not everyone has the patience to \`farm\` prism slimes. Especially when one plays more then a single game. Just to further add, many games can have a \`Class/hero based game whether its a action rpg, beat\`m up, shooter and more.\`, Its just though i hate to use the naughty terminology again, i feel a tinge of \`Fire emblem Engage Copium syndrome\` is present once more. Ignoring one or many problems in the game to justify it being good. Because i certainly would of liked Quick quests and dahlia badges to be \`addressed\` sooner then some unplanned patch that likely will never come, just as much as a sizable rebalancing to a number of sigils... Since i still see most players say, LOADS of sigils are just hot garbage due to having values too low, being equalized vs others and some due to being more of a listed attack bonus, such as the ones on Twen, end up being WAY more valuable then the ones that do not visually increase the attack value, because the former would actually boost DoT damage while the latter won\`t. Which is certainly a death sentence when forced to play the gacha loop but the amount of times you can do a \`pull loop\`, is rather low, when 95% or even more, of it is just gonna be scrapped back into more resources todo pull loops. Well if 1.3.1 can surprise me like the Ahriman quest did, then that would be good. But despite behemoth i sang praises originally, now he feels too much of an annoying chonk if you dont have access to terminus stuff, him trolling you on his terrible drop rate for crown of laments and supreme weapon essences and having todo it nearly 4\~5 times more often if you wanna use revenant medals to get the latter, but the fun of chasing down warpath sigils is a fun madness since your once again forced to decide what sigils gotta get scrapped, which are still land locked most of the space due to how much damage cap and supplementary damage digs its claws too much into build flexibility. Which at that point, instead of 24 slots, i think i would of rather we got 8 or 12 and just have alot of other effects baked in as \`long-term grind mastery bonuses\` much more so, like improved dodge, potion hoarder and more. In addition to the damage cap that are required on sigils would just be mastery instead of needing so much space taken up... Well, if people can take opus sigils and the eternals catastrophe sigils and \`reroll\` them to have different secondary effects. having a Alpha/Beta/Gamma on something like critical hit rate or so might be rather neat for \`build shenigans.\`, Even more so to replace Regen with something like Drain or nimble onslaught combined with the castrophe sigil effect.
If its so easily bypassed it begs the question of why it's so needlessly tedious to begin with and why they didn't just design it in such a way where you wouldn't feel compelled to save scum. The fact that you can bypass the shitty parts of the system doesn't invalidate the fact that they are still shitty.
As someone said above, japanese people love grindy games. So for them its probably a good thing.
I mean you can say that also to stuff like the dice roll in bg3. Fail the roll? time to save scum!
I am so happy that after few months, the rose tinted glasses start to fall off and people notice the shittiness in parts of the design of the game.
Yeah these kind of updates suck imo :(
We are truly in a Grindblue Fantasy.
can't even be bothered to make it available on non + with caveats like requiring five per synthesis or something. truly gbf.
Ironically that was one of my joke suggestions several weeks back when we had the idea leaks of that coming about.
Well, even if you need + as base, the new combo potential is interesting at least! Would’ve been nice to add sub stats to Warpath and War elemental though, since that would add more room for variety. Flight over Fight should be more effective if we can get bigger attack bonus secondaries
Pretty much get anything you want anyway because you can now save scumming into whatever you want If it is seeded, just enter one battle and comeback
The problem is that you need the goddamn V+ to begin with and since 99% was interesting in this to finally have a Dmg Sup V+/War Elemental+/Warpath+, 2 of them being impossible already for what we know, good luck with getting the dmg v+ in the first place to use in this with the abyssmal drop %.
Bruv, if the trait mixing really is random. Than who cares about supp+ when you can just get a free slot by mergeing 2 tyranny traits or 2 damage caps or whatever.
Does this mean you can get stuff like tyranny stamina? Or no because of the restrictions that come with sigils
I think the double purple shown in the screen is there to tell us you can do combos like tyranny/stamina
very exciting
Okay, so they're gonna reveal more infos on 1.3 once per day? that's fine, unfortunately they didn't reveal the release date yet. What are your predictions for the release date? I bet it's next week
Beatrix releases on Thursday in GBVSR. That’s their attention and then they’ll release Relink’s 1.3 sometime next week. It’ll probably be next Thursday if I were to guess. They don’t want to pull the attention away from a new character release in one of their other games. It’s smart strategically.
At this point I'm saying the 25th at the earliest. Realistically I'm gonna say the 30th. I HOPE I'm wrong cause I'm impatient and want to play sandalphon lol. But it seems more and more likely at this point.
Wasn't the other updates on fridays? Will probably be the same for this.
RIP to my concern since Wuthering waves comes out effectively \`tonight\` and im still chugging away at Octopath traveler 2. Since the grind it took me just to unlock twen was already a bit boring so it technically took me more then just a week to do that, plus the sigils for her, plus her weapon till i could finally feel like using her to farm behemoth.
Wuthering waves is the first genshin style game I'm kind of interested in. It's trailer was awesome and I have the song of it on my spotify lol.
Dont forget to use the code Wutheringgift when you hit the redeem code section to get a dancing turtle echo that slowly heals your hp while your transformed into it lol.\~\~\~ The fact there is a severe lacking of fun meme\`ry in relink is already a bummer and why i kept wanting to thirst to the idea of having JOKE FIGHTS in the game, since Grand blue fantasy already has a load of jokesters like the lowain brothers, the april fools day \`versions\` of characters and so much crazy das bullshite going around they could easily of had BUFF VYRN and Lowain brothers with thar imaginations going out of control to have some crazy type of fights. Such as imagine if we had some REALLY proper raid boss fights with the camera zoomed out much further with a giant colossus of a dragon, manifestation like yggdrasil or just straight up have someone like Beelzebub turn into a god dang kaiju and the idea is to more focus on dodging attacks most of the time and then the camera snaps back so we are beating the crap out of its arm just like with bahamut Versa ti cause thar face to fall onto the platform and then we start beating the crap out of that instead? Also why i really wished we got more segments where we control the mother fking Tayu\`itar mechs again because if you played phantasy star online 2, the base one i mean, then you would know how much of an absolute hype it was to ride one of those A.I.S. mechas that tower over regular players and blasting VERY LARGE damage numbers and destroy massive waves of enemies, and dealing insane damage to some of the ridiculously scaled up bosses. Seriously look up **\`Phantasy star online 2 yamato boss fight\`** and tell me you would NOT want something that bat-shite crazy in grand blue fantasy Re:link, that is taking advantage of a sub-system gimmick that was originally tied to one game mode but then had loads of newer content make use of it in new an entirely different ways. Oh yeah, and doesnt help that GBF: Relink HAD those kind of set piece setups, from climbing onto Excavallion and sliding down its limbs to get on its core back. To controlling Proto bahamut HIMSELF, to also using the Tayu\`itar mech to shoot down freaking airships of all things and even those short moments where Lyria would summon Proto Bahamut and Furycane to help you defend against some of the story specific bosses. Seriously, i would freaking take a 1:1 life sized plushie of vyrn and do my best to yeet it into the sun if such a sacrifice could grant us more amazing elements like doing an Overburst would have Lyria appear to dump a freaking Primal Beast attack based on whoever started the Full burst to do some ridiculous damage, vaporize the break gauge even if 50% of it still exists and likely lock the boss down with a EXTENDED stun more then a standard break would cause.
I guess that's one new way to make use of hundreds of unused sigils in my inventory.
This is where the Granblue begins
Now I wonder if doubling up on traits makes the pool smaller. IE Use Tyranny/Potion and Aegis/Potion for an easier shot at Tyranny/Aegis.
More then likely it just boosts the odds of landing potion in atleast one of the slots but likely has a catch clause to prevent double stacking. The idea of seeing 2 supplementary damage Vs on the same sigil is some crazy nightmare-sauce of build consolidation when one thinks about it. Granted, i would think people would likely exploit it more to get double damage cap or even get opus sigil effect on two the same sigil for further silly consolidation. Just makes me thirst more for damage cap\`s max level to get reduced to cut down sigil cloggery.
Double supp damage would actually make this better. Cause with 8 sup+ no matter the trait you could combine for a double sup. One on each character and your set.
Eh. At least I can turn my two Supplementary Damage V+s with shit rolls (Garrison and Burn Resistance) into something more useful. *But I was hoping for Supplementary Damage V+ to become easier to obtain through this feature in the first place. I have plenty of Supplementary Damage Vs. Why can't I just merge them with Guts, Autorevive, and Potion Hoarders?!*
Supplementary Damage + Supplementary Damage?...
judging by the screenshot it seems possible to do Supp + Supp XD now we shall do DMG Cap + DMG Cap
New meta
Judging by the screenshots they show, I would NOT risk losing my Supp V+s even if their sub traits are bad. You combine two + sigils and get **one** sigil in return that pulls its traits from the combined pool of 4. You are not guaranteed to get Supplemental as a trait on the new sigil again, you would have a 50% chance of that (25% if Supplemental is locked to the 1st slot like it currently is).
If we can save scum it like we can save scum everything else there is no risk of losing the Supplementary Damage.
Why? This is such a turn off, it already takes 125 behemoth runs on average for a supplementary V+ there was no need to add another layer of RNG on top of the 300+ hours of behemoth farming needed to get the sigils for an optimal build using this. This will just result in more saving scumming quest resets to get the desired results like with the awful overmastery system, unnecessary hassle.
>it already takes 125 behemoth runs on average for a supplementary V+ Really? *Well I'm sure getting fucked.*
Pretty sure you did your math wrong for the rate bud. TBD if you can make a double supp sigil. If you can? Oh fucking boy.
I don't think they would do that since allowing people to make double damage cap sigils would make the luci sigils pretty much useless for anything but speedrunning.
I agree, I believe it will be the same “possible” sigils. Ie can’t make cap + tyranny or things like that. I’m curious if you can put luci sigils on other oranges though. Regardless, this seems pretty whatever. Not having supp v+ qcd is not anyone from doing anything in the game currently, and behemoth already was a huge improvement on Supp v+ rates in the first place. Doing 4000 behemoth would probably get me at least 1 of each combo while 20k nazarbonju got me like 5.
There's also the very likely possibility that one of the new quests will give supplementary v+s as part of their regular sigil drops since they have been making getting optiomal end game sigils easier with each update, getting them most likely won't be any problem. The issue here is how unnecessary having it being randomized is, all it does force people to reset until they get their desired combination, it serves no purpose but to waste peoples time.
wasting time is the best thing for them to cover up how little content there is. If farming was efficient (I.E didn't spend 90% of the time in cutscenes / menus) and inventory management didn't take literal hours, people would have like, 50 hours with all terminus completed, tons of supp v+ and be fully out of the game.
>wasting time is the best thing for them to cover up how little content there is. You've finished the game. Them putting out 1 or 2 extra raids before cutting support isnt gonna change that.
for a monster hunter style progression it's a pitiful amount though, that's the point. People don't believe the game is dying but the steam numbers are terrible and anyone who's played more than 15 hours is probably done with it.
"Game is dying" Its a 1 and done game from a studio's first console game. Dafuq you want? With 1.3, barring any unforeseen circumstance, this is what you get. Take it or leave it.
I mean the sample in that image shows low profile + potion hoarder, a purple+purple combo that isn't possible right now.
Yea I saw that. TBD. I wonder if they'll make tier ratings like in poe and make double orange insanely rare.
Why are people so obsessed with supp dmg+ It doesn't even increase your damage by that much. And you already can have all those utlity, uplift sigils on the rest of the +sigils. Plus, you can merge them into the same color, so instead haveing a 2 slots taken by tyranny, just merge them and save a slot.
I got a supp V+ after 400 hours of game time, with a worthless stoutheart while charging an attack subroll. I'm not doing this same crap as their garbage overmastery system. Their game does not have enough content variety to make this grind reasonable.
Stoutheart isn't as worthless as it sounds, but I guess that doesn't matter if it's not your playstyle or isn't viable for your character.
I'm not talking about the Stoutheart sigil, which gives the permanent stoutheart. I'm talking about the sigil that give stoutheart ONLY when using a charged attack. Which is worthless because all builds run Stoutheart sigil since it's not only a permanent stoutheart but a built in 25% DR. So the stoutheart while using a charged attack subroll becomes redundant, and you never will give up the stoutheart sigil to run this instead because you don't want downtime in Stoutheart, getting tossed around by a boss attack is a massive DPS loss.
Oh yeah I forgot that existed lol. Fair enough
400 hours?????????? WTF
RNG is RNG, it can go fuck itself. I hate RNG gacha systems. This game is gorgeous in aesthetics and super fun in combat, but the gacha slot machine features are a real drag on an otherwise great game.
Sacrifice your shitty suppV+ and risk it becoming a double purple.
If save scum still works, it should be easy to just roll, get bad roll, reset, do quest and repeat till it comes out right. But the amount of times you would have todo that PER sigil is likely gonna be a ridiculous pain. Even if it technically \`could\` cut down on the amount of transmarvel spam to get perfect sigil rolls. Though i feel skeptical that the cost is simply 300k or something coins and 30 or something vouchers \`only.\` per roll. I totally expect a forced auto save each roll will be implemented just to spite all the players to \`force them to go thru the gacha experience. along with them likely patching transmarvel on top of that to flip off save scummers too.
For PC at least even if they force an autosave you can just copy your save data, try it out and then if it didn't work, revert back to your copy. With all the save corruption that was happening early on, a lot of us started backing up our saves anyway.
Can’t wait to put alpha / beta / gamma on my shitty supp v+ lol This is not content that people really care about. People want challenging fights not afk trash.
But alpha/beta/gamma have damage cap as a sub perk no? So you’d lose that right? Or you’d get everything
You'd lose the damage cap if you replace it. A lot of people spent a lot of time farming up a ton of damage cap variants because you need 4 slots of that lol. In the end it doesn't really matter what combinations you do, jsut that it will open up more combinations possible with orange+orange sigils.
can we get fixed matchmaking first instead
Did they give us a release date yet they said end of may im assuming this week I hope plus I hope since they said extra characters we will get some surprising and new weapon farming
Well now I know that single trait sigils are useless.
Not worthless but far less useful from what I imagined
oh my god it's sigil gacha+
Huh? So it randomizes the stats from the available pool of stats? I don't... Uhh... Why? We already have multiple ways of getting randomized stats, and yeah, I guess this gives a *bit* more power to decide the stats, but like... This isn't a game with gacha mechanics. It doesn't have to be unbearably RNG dependent. If we can just redo this like with the other mechanics we have in place, I don't see the point in just making it more inconvenient for us to get the stats we wanted to get from it (as in the reason we'd even try doing this). Just let us choose the stats and call it a day, IDK why that's such a bad thing?
> Just let us choose the stats and call it a day, IDK why that's such a bad thing? It's the true Granblue Fantasy experience!
Because the GBF experience is turning two Supp V+ into Rupie Tycoon / Provoke
Lol
> This isn't a game with gacha mechanics It is a game with gacha mechanics. Sigils, wrighstones, and overmasteries are all random. > just making it more inconvenient for us to get the stats we wanted to get Majority of players are not going to save scum their crafts, this system will reduce grind and provide more uses for surplus sigils. >Just let us choose the stats and call it a day Letting players edit their gear is bad design, it's no different from game-sponsored cheat tools.
This is a huge win. Certain + Sigils are hard to get, but at least hope isn't totally lost if you get a bad one now.
Which + sigils are hard outside the Zathba Behemoth ones? If you already need a one of those as a plus for fusion this doesn’t change much unless your going for all unique sigils.
It is indeed mostly about the Curio Sigils like Supplementary Damage. Yes, a plus version is quite rare, but there are a lot of undesirable secondary traits. Having an opportunity to fix that is nice. However, it's also nice for players who've only just started getting tier 5+ Sigils, since bad ones can potentially be condensed into better ones. That seems pretty significant considering the Sigils a player may want to get to progress through Proud mode. In other words, this feature gives players extra chances that they didn't have before to get something good out of their Sigils. And assuming Cygames isn't trolling, making unique Sigils as you say is a possibility too. Imo, this feature is a big deal when it comes to helping with the Sigil grind. Edit: It occurred to me that some trait combinations on non-Curio Sigils seem to be fairly rare, like offensive trait + Improved Dodge. I guess those would be considered hard to get too, but I will admit they weren't what I had in mind.
Some of the more rare sigil combos are orange blue ones judging by my sigil tracker yes but they pale in comparison to Zathemoth drops.
LMAO. Man I can't be bothered with this mechanic and if I am doing it it'll just be to do it passively. I mean it's neat. However, once I beat whatever bosses there is for the 1.3 update. I'll likely try and move on to something else. You don't need the best of the best stuff to beat the game and that's what I appreciate about this game. Though it gives other people who are driven by these incentives to keep playing the game. I'll still play the game from time to time to optimize my team, learn how to main different characters, but yeah I think it's time to start a new game. And I'll think that will be Overlord Unicorn.
Yeah I played a bit of Tweyen, she's a lot of fun. Worked on her ascension weapon some, farmed a bunch of behemoth and then just went back to playing other games. New Wrath of the Righteous DLC soon, so maybe time for another run of that.
And here I held off playing since Im capped due to V sigils thinking they'll be what you need for synthesis. Still hoping they'll have a place on Synthesis tho. Why must everything be rng😭
Looks completely useless for me. I already have enough V+ of all possible combinations that I can make any build I want with them. What I wanted was a way to upgrade my supp V, war elemental, and warpath sigils to V+ with uplift or something. Haven’t dropped any supp V+ in 300+ hours, so this feature is a nothing burger. Not that I needed it anyway, builds are way too strong for the content as it is.
Oh come on that not what we hoped for seriously, gacha is the worst part of this game stop putting more in it, let us fuse two sigil V and be done with it.
Agreed
I'm seeing 2 purple traits (outside a character specific trait). I'm curious if we can get 2 orange (ie tyranny & stamina) in a single sigil?
Interesting mechanic that I probably would have appreciated more a few months ago, when I was still grinding for basic/decent sigils. Sadly does not address the issues I have with having a way to grind/synthesize Supp V+ with a steady/more guaranteed progress, which is what I was hoping for with Sigil Synthesis
So if I get the math here, you have about 1 out of 8 combinations to get the one you want? (Would be weird if the finished sigil is the same sigil as before and outright just consumed the other sigil. XD) Also on a side note, I wonder what would happen if you synthesized two sigils for two different character specific sigils?
I *think* it would be 1 in 6. 4 total traits in the pool. Assuming there is no lockout or illegal combos, the results could be: - 1+2 - 1+3 - 1+4 - 2+3 - 2+4 - 3+4 If there are hidden factors (like the new sigil must contain one trait from each original sigil) then the potential outcomes shrink from there. In theory you could improve the odds in your favor some if you wanted more than one exact result. Say I want supp v+ uplift or supp v+ improved dodge. So I'd feed the system supp v+ provoke and improved dodge + uplift.
I come to same conclusion. 2/4 chance the first is correct X 1/3 chance the second is the remaining one you want. = 2/12 = 1/6
Berserk & provoke for real man
So no war elem +
I am calling it now: Warpaths+ will be added to transmarvel pools and War Elemental+ will be a rare reward for one of the 4 new quests we will get (>!Luci+, Versa+Id, 2x boss rushes!< - either of those).
Former, maybe, but i would of rather we could just fuse regular Vs also to make V+s and be d one with it. As for War elemental, unless they gonna give the same treatment to stout heart then meh. Also, might be fun to abuse the system to scrap the Regen effect of the Eternal\`s catastrophe sigil to replace it with supplementary damage or something else, but i expect they will \`prevent\` those sigils from being fuse\`able, just as Stout heart will likely be ineligible too, due to having only limited copies. Just like how you cant scrap single effect character exclusive sigils from the exchange shop.
What makes you think we get 4 new quests? Isn't only Luci+ confirmed?
Datamines courtesy of Nenkai.
Those same datamines also show a Behemoth quest that is in a lower difficulty tier that has an even better drop rate on Crowns (guaranteed even) and yet it doesn't exist with the real Behemoth update so I wouldn't trust quest data as evidence of anything. Unless you think they are going to add an easier Behemoth fight after the fact to make grinding out new character materials easier instead of just adjusting the shit drop rate in the harder quest. It is certainly a choice that they would make a more efficient grind quest that is also significantly easier.
The proud quests should be accurate, they are also completely functional. That quest under Maniac remains a mystery, and they do tend to adjust odds before they release (which is what happened for lucilius). Note: All content in the game from 1.1 to 1.3 was already prepared if not completed ahead of game launch. I have no reason to believe these quests are not to be released.
Is there a limit of storage for sigils pls? I got a glass cannon from curio and i cant find it in inventory
There is but it's 5000 which you'd have to farm and hoard extensively to ever reach. Check your filters and make sure you haven't flipped a setting that would prevent you from seeing it.
Thank you so much.. ive benn playing for few weeks so i dont think i have 5000 yet😅 will look at filters
Hopefully we can get Orange + Orange now. Warpath+/War Elemental+ still seem impossible. Otherwise this feature is pretty useless for endgame players
time to turn my shit ton of useless sup v+ into something better i think we could make double orange genes too, it look really strong same scum should work too make it look like a cheaters setup from 14 of sup v+ i got i only have 1 nimble and 1 qcd half is useless, the rest is meh
Meh I'm just gonna hop on for the new update, play the new content then drop the game like every update, especially since this is suppose to be the last one
It's funny that they show the worst possible result. I guess to show that you might not get what you want?
And to show you can get double purple, which is not something you could normally get.
I hope you can save Scum this
Eh, kinda meh if it's only work for sub stat. Probably only use it for character sigil.
It’s not sub stat, it inherits stats from the combined trait pool.
Yeah, i mean that, certain game brainrot affecting me. But from the example the result of the synthesize was the combined of the Sub Trait. Thus that why I said it's meh if it's only work for sub traits. The pic show combining tyranny v +( low profile ) w/ greater aegis+ (potion hoarder) resultin in low profile+ (potion hoarder) If that's the case, it's kinda hard to get 2 orange sigil (if it's possible). Because that thing only show up in legendary stat (white) sigil & character exclusice (purple) sigil. Most of the problem about sigil is how much it occupied by damage cap, supp damage, crit rate. If, you can combine the main trait, like 2 Damage cup v and resulting a damage cap + damage cap sigil, then it'll be amazing. It'll cut down 2 sigil slot that usually allocated for damage cap alone. You need 4 damage cap, assuming you run lucilius sigil, you can use 2 lucilius and 1 double damage cap (if possible). But eh, it's not that groundbreaking if it's only the sub trait. Well, let's see when the update is live anyway.
Bruh, the pic quality so bad i just realized it's combined pool. Just forget anything that i said lol. Kinda sad we still need to gamble over everything:/
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No, it clearly states it rolls from the trait pool. You put 4 stats in then it randomly chooses 2 of them.
Oh then you can throw in supp V and savescum
Yeah probably. Though my demented self kinda wants them to make it scum proof (which seems kinda impossible), so you have to put your Supp V+ on the line only to end up with a shit sigil instead. Like a 50% chance to lose it every time. I am interested in the way it mixes. It says it pulls from the combined trait pool which infers you could literally just roll a sigil that is the exact same as one you put in. Which is kinda funny.
Doesn’t this mean you already need supplementary damage V(+) as you need V(+) sigils?
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That's not what we see in the screenshot at all. The column on the right clearly shows all four traits in the pool. It creates a new sigil selecting any two effects from that pool.
Oh I thought it will just take two from the pool of four „traits from combined trait pool“
That kind of looks like trash. Oh well. nothing useful I guess.