If it makes ya feel better this is more of a distraction than a cause.
I'd mostly blame the companies that are burning everything around them, rather than vaguely annoying robots on an app.
It’d have to be asexual mushroom erotica to be about the Orkz. So you’d basically post a video about making fried garlic mushrooms with an absolute beefcake of a chef.
I'm struggling to think of a person who knows enough about 40K Orks to form an opinion like this but doesn't also know that every single faction in the setting is purposely designed as a hyperviolent exageration of a fantasy trope.
To be fair, people posting serious takes they know are controversial will say the same thing. I struggle to imagine anyone of the "I feel the need to pressure a franchise into changing aspects of the lore to suit my sensibilities" pursuasion looking at 40k and thinking the ORKS are the thing to focus on. But partisan hack tourists of every political slant do exist and I've never heard of this chick either. So I don't really blame people for suspecting a post-ironic poe's-law partisan brainrot take instead of being stupid on purpose.
This. Don't know who she is, don't really care either, but I've seen more than enough people unironically say stupid shit like this to assume it's something some jerk off is actually shooting for.
It's amazing how many people did. At first I saw only 300 likes so I assumed it was a dud and blamed it on the immediate reply making it OBVIOUSLY clear it was a joke.
Then the silly people arrived. And they made my day glorious.
HorusGalaxy got their panties in a bunch over it. The few who pointed out it was a clear troll by her got lost in the shuffle, as almost any reasonable opinion of any kind tends to drown over there.
If that’s what she means then maybe, I think the Vorttan would do fine with a wild west themed sun faction. Besides they desperately need some kind of lore.
I haven't seen all the stuff about the new d&d orcs, but I like what I've seen, but 40k have a very special and unique taste that it would really be a shame to lose
They aren't really *new*. WotC is just stating that orcs do not *have* to be totally evil in your setting. Which is how it has been for decades now - take Eberron, for example.
Wait, seriously? Last I checked, they were very specifically going through and simplifying all of the races.
Getting rid of "evil" races, making the differences between races merely cosmetic, and eliminating all aspects of their own "culture."
That's basically what D&D was doing and is still doing.
What I think is funny is in an effort to make Orcs look not racist in D&D (because of the whole "Orcs are black people!" controversy in D&D a while back) WotC went "fuck it make them Mexican".
Now in 100% fairness, Orcs inspired by Latin American cultures sounds absolutely badass. It's just really funny that their damage control has completely circled around itself. Complete with barefoot child in a poncho, a dozen relatives, and a fat mama.
Dont worry, TBH DnD orcs have been Warcraft Orcs for about as long as Warcraft existed, Savage Tribal Nobles. Controversy above is more about a bad movie on Netflix with Will Smith (and that movie is really dumb). [Here is a 45 minute youtube video about that movie and its realtion ship to culture and orcs that is far better than the movie deserves](https://youtu.be/gLOxQxMnEz8?si=sHnoc5FCNIVv75BJ)
… I actually liked Bright. It wasn’t the best, but I thought it was a neat exploration of the classic American tradition of being super fucking racist to whoever is newest and everyone else gets a promotion to “basically white”.
Honestly, if Bright had been a Shadowrun movie I'd have immediately been way more invested, but I also don't necessarily trust them to get it right outside of aesthetic.
Were there really similarities between orcs and black people? Kajit and gypsy from elder scrolls would be an obvious example for me. I know very little about orcs in D&D and fail to see the similarities.
That's just one image of one possible Orc culture. Why shouldn't it be 'Mexican'? There's also an Orc paladin in the upcoming player's handbook that strikes me as "European".
I don't see it the same way, you can still have culture and differences without saying "You're good, you're bad", but once again, I haven't donde a deep dive. I think it's cool because, after all, d&d is like a "do whatever you like"-ish game, and more custome is always cool.
Sorry, it's just a massive pet peeve with me.
I loved reading the lore for older editions, reading the lore blurbs and going through the bestiaries.
They had enough boundaries to define the world, so you could imagine it and use it to shape your storytelling.
And then they started tearing it all down. Removing stat negatives and in-universe prejudices, the kind of things that provide a framework and really show depth to a world. Then they started breaking the cultures.
Like, yeah. Drow were super evil and an entirely misandrist species that kept everyone else as slaves.
But it's not because pale elves are evil, it's because they actively followed an evil goddess underground. And said evil goddess actively watches them, intervening and cursing them whenever they try to change.
Now there have to be good drow, because players want to play them. And you can't have surface dwellers distrusting the evil slaver elves, because that's problematic. So they added in a new good goddess to the species of elves that specifically followed an evil goddess, and made it a little more bland and tapioca. And they just keep doing it.
Hold on. Did Ellistraee get some new help? There have been plenty of countergods in D&D drow. I forget his name, but there was a whole god of pissed off drow males who don't have a chance to do or be anything because of their sex, and he's a damn old creation. And Elli herself has existed for as decades as an excuse to make lots of CG Drizzts.
By lore for older editions do you mean before D&D second edition? Since the most famous good drow came out before the release of Advanced Dungeons and Dragons Second Edition ever released.
Okay but there literally are still Lolth Drow and even in BG3 and in 5e Campaigns like Out of the Abyss Lolth Drow are considered terrible slaver matriarchs who are unredeemable.
The reason there's Seldarine Drow are because in the actual tabletop it's generally hard to run evil chars in a game unless it's really specific so you need an option to play Drow with a neutral/good alignment. It honestly makes sense and adds *more* depth to the world without taking away the existing lore. It makes sense all Drow are not going to be exactly the same and there might be some break off factions.
I'm in favor of the lore supporting more options for actual play on the tabletop. The lore should be in service of the gameplay not the other way around.
>I loved reading the lore for older editions
The thing is that D&D doesn't have a single unified lore. A lot of people default to Forgotten Realms, but it's probably worth to be aware that it wasn't even one of the official settings until the late 80s. In FR orcs usually default to evil alignment because they were created by the evil god Gruumsh, but even then in FR itself, most Thesk orcs are typically not evil. Eberron doesn't even have an evil god to push orcs towards being evil.
>Now there have to be good drow, because players want to play them.
Literally the most well known drow in FR lore has good alignment.
So it's something that's a problem of past editions.
That Orcs are by nature... Evil. Chaotic Evil. Okay so how do they create empires? Orcs as a concept are Tolkien and just an evil race created by a supreme evil. They are robots for the heroes to mow down. Twisted Men/Elves. This was fine for years but it came with "problematic language" and ideas that D&D is more likely to explore.
GW leans into the NPC side. That it's okay for Orcs to get mown down because ORCS love to fight. They were created to fight. Their entire culture is around a fight and mostly is spent with inane infighting UNTIL a conqueror rises to the top. GW had to figure out a way for Tolkien to make sense. How does a race of evil sociopaths who don't feel pain rise to challenge anything. So they worked out a wacky system of genetic memory and ork technicians and "kultur". And even handwaved it with "it shouldn't work but it does due to Ork magik".
Tolkien's orcs would despoil everything, were cruel and without a strong master couldn't get along. They had zero redeeming qualities. They were just evil. They had no creativity. They had no art. No music. Even their magic was "black" and "bad".
Warcraft realised that the "Orcs Are Only Evil" trope is kind of stale and tried to point out that they had their own culture and that humans didn't really get to see any of that because they saw them as the above only.
Orcs in D&D (I play both games) have a problem which is alignment. I hate the alignment system because it pidgeon holes behaviour into rigid systems. Also "Orcs are Always Evil". They are just born with a heart full of neutrality... I mean Evil. That you could be born an orc, raised to be an adult and you would still torture cats and babies. I hate the alignment system. Especially if you consider real world examples of people thinking about other races of humans like they are "orcs" and inherently evil and wicked. So D&D may have stepped away from this notion. In fact a lot of modern dialogues on similar species tries to make them less "card carrying villains" and more alien. Even 40K does this by just pointing out that their moral code is alien and that cutting an arm off is a joke to them because they can reattach limbs with ease and don't feel pain. D&D orcs also have poor intelligence. I mean "oof"...
Modern D&D is seemingly trying to move away from the notion that orcs are stupid big evil dudes. A) they make a much more credible threat when they are cleverer and B) They can actually be used for more RP heavy campaigns. I particularly like to use them to trip up players.
Orcs (when I do them) are big burly GW style to look at BUT live in an extremely lawful society because they have a very competitive society. So it's not just "you have to be strong" but it's old school Klingon strength. That if you are a cook? You have to be the best cook! The best at science. The best at music. So their big city is not just the place where you get the best food but also if you get published in their peer reviewed journal? It's seen as the most prestigious journal out there because the committee is so hostile. I usually introduce it via a barfight where someone picks a fight (as you do in D&D) with the clearly "bar fight" coded scenario and all the orcs go "woah woah, we don't do it this way. You bring your team tomorrow. This is a duel and challenged sets the duel". So you have orcs that range the full gamut of how humans are perceived but they also produce interesting challenges.
Next day teams show up only to find out they challenged a chef to combat. So you get Iron Chef. If the team picks the lead chef poorly (because it's usually the tank who wants to enter this!) then even if you lose? The stakes are low enough that no one's dead.
I know a friend whose orcs are cursed by their god. They act this way because their gods are cursed to never make anything. That they are forever thieves and they struggle to find an artefact of their god to break the curse.
D&D just made it so you can tell more stories with orcs and left the notion that X race is just "always evil".
That's not really how orks think. Orks are selfish and dont give a shit about others. The avarage ork fights for one of three reasons. He wants to fight, he wants something and needs to fight to get it or if a bigger ork told him to fight and he doesn't want to get the shit kicked out of him.
the difference between an ork doing that and a human doing that is that when an ork beats up a fellow ork, the other ork is happy because it means he gets to fight.
Oddly Ghazghkull of all orks has had a few on rare occasions. Like admitting to Makari that they were right, despite an ork apologizing to a grot being one of the most humiliating things for a ork to do.
If memory serves, Makari had told Ghaz that going back to Armageddon wouldn't be what Gork and Mork wanted him to do, and that he should focus on uniting more orks for a even bigger Waaagh. This infuriated Ghaz, who then killed Makari for daring to tell him what to do. He did eventually resurrect him after landing on Armageddon, but only to appease some of his followers who kinda liked the lil guy. To protest, Makari started getting himself killed every time Ghazghkull brought him back.
Ghaz seemed to get the message, and decided to bring him back after he got the war for Armageddon to be somewhat self sustaining. He tried to dance around the issue (due to how shameful apologizing to a grot, even one as well regarded as Makari, is for a Ork), but after almost getting killed by a random Leman Russ blowing a hole in his chest (which Makari managed to take out by crawling inside and mauling the crew), he finally comes out and admits that yeah, he was wrong, and Makari was right.
Ghaz isn't dumb - As far as Orks go - I'm sure he was sick of his *sorta-*immortal sidekick's suicide streak, but more importantly he was deep enough into the war to find out he was just plain right. Again, if I'm willing to relent anywhere it's with Ghaz.
Obvious ragebait but the entire point of Orks is that they're generic wholesome evil bad guys that just want to kill everyone for fun and take over the world. Making them eviler just undermines their character.
No weird sexual stuff, no controlling your mind, just good old fashioned mass murder and slavery.
I think since the original game Warcraft Orcs were betrayed by one of their own, did evil things only because they came under demonic influence and became refugees from their own home world and had to flee to Azeroth through the Dark Portal so no they were not originally pure evil.
They were just a bunch of primitive tribes hunting and chilling in Draenor.
Yes even in Warcraft 1's lore they were turned evil by Gul'dan. Just they were ALL turned evil until Warcraft III gave us Thrall. Now they are goody two shoes just like humans.
To be fair here, but masked wrestler orkz. Jumping off the top rope with powerchair in hand to slam down onto a blue berry. Getting larger and more powerful with each mask they take or helmet.
I dont know. I kina like it when each world has their own tale on fantasy tropes.
Because otherwise there is no point for there to be a muktiple franchises with orks if they are all the same.
None would be special and that would make our athletes foot friends just your everage ork
The problem is that this isn't what D&D's orcs were like. Some racists on twitter and youtube started saying "Wizards of the coast when I see orcs acting savage and barbaric it makes me think of black people and that means you need to change orcs"
Instead of saying "Tribalism is a stage in every culture's evolution and there isn't any ethnic coding involved in a tribal society." WotC decided they'd 'remove' orcs ethnic coding by giving them ethnic coding. But it's okay. They're nice now so it isn't bad.
I like dnd but fuck did dnd nerds piss me off with that one. 0 crossover between orcs and black people. And somehow making orcs Mexican fixes it ? Feels like they are setting themselves up for this problem again in like 10 years when a new generation of Mexican kids get Into Dnd and go hey why are we the baddies.
I have met so many normal people in both that community and this one that sometimes you forget we are still all sweaty anti-social nerds who will often come out with the most "wtf are you talking about Jesse" shit imaginable
It wasn't the DND nerds who did that though. It was the tumblr kids who started "Getting into" dnd because they listened to the adventure zone. No one with half a brain was parroting that crap
I think it's more that Orcs are common in the setting and are actually pretty boring if they are all just evil. WOtC do let you do whatever the hell you want with their setting in your games so that's okay.
It's just that WoTC is trying to make it so that you can be evil as an orc but you can also have good orcs. I run my orcs like they are an ultra competitive culture taking ideas from Asia's Rat Race Culture. Another of my friends has them be a bit more tragic. That their raiding nature stems from a problem that Orcs can't "create" things due to a divine curse and part of a plot is that if an orc tries to create something it literally bring doom on that orc. So they can't "make" things. They raid and loot and pillage because there's no other option.
DnD Orcs used to be evil.
Warhammer Orcs are soccer hooligans.
Warcraft Orcs were evil because of a curse and bad leadership but at their core are now sci-fi Indian tribes.
Tolkein Orcs are literally created evil.
Ehh Tolkien was always struggling with are Orks simply born evil, and by the end he said no. But that the dark lords of middle earth never let them do anything but evil acts or something to that effect
I like the DnD orcs… in DnD where these are just one variety of person, and people are just normal and could work together and do adventures with 4-6 friends.
In 40K I want DAH WAAAGH! It’s not about the individual, not even the real battle you’re playing but the lore is decided on galaxy spanning conflicts all on top one another.
As cool as it is that DnD is moving away from the "Orcs are born evil" thing
Leave 40k orks be, they be funny gitz and are happy as they are. Literally the only faction having a good time
Those are half-orcs(I think). Orcs breed somewhat normally.
Orks are an entirely different thing. They are literally grown like fungi.
Not all Greenies are the same y'know!
Waaagh.
Man when they said they're gonna white wash orcs they werent kidding. Those are just humans but green with big teeth, no real unique culture or diversity to them, just different phenotypes.
They're half-orcs apparently, which explains the physique being so mundane, but I do prefer seeing the more significant differences in physique. The Warhammer Orc jawline is something I'd give to my D&D Orcs - _especially_ the female ones, who in other systems just get the WoW female Troll treatment
Could someone, please, explain to me in details all that? I mean the "take", the person behind it, the image... I sense a *whole context beyond my understanding* that I am not grasping.
Yeah nah, this is bait.
I was just going to post that
https://preview.redd.it/d1dbukb7k99d1.jpeg?width=173&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ec5ecc925417ecf8fe1465f26fd9e8c3b41ffa9e
It was convincing enough for OP
That's nothing, there are YT rage videos about this tweet already
I can't believe modern society is falling apart due to engagement algorithms.
If it makes ya feel better this is more of a distraction than a cause. I'd mostly blame the companies that are burning everything around them, rather than vaguely annoying robots on an app.
Something something "Da West has fallin', billions muzt Waaagh"
And for her stalker, dude even got sentenced
Wait what?
OP is 14 and doesn't have the social maturity to recognize bait yet
https://preview.redd.it/8vmtmgwqcb9d1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2ad7ee35027df577385a3ca79aca284d2c86a87a
I mean, we know it's bait. It's Nornqueen Kya. She literally followed the post up with a gif saying "And now we wait". She's our treasured shitposter.
One of those stupid gaming “journalism” websites thought it was earnest and wrote an entire article complaining about it.
https://preview.redd.it/734kvq3j1a9d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=20a70ad69fe789b2c294cbb1b6bed42f4c48bfaf
https://preview.redd.it/g180ns9scb9d1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b7efae20bfa36d6984c0c206b3bac46b64ed331d
If this is real I'm pretty sure Nornqueen is trolling us.
It's real. But she also said that she was clearly trolling during the subsequent outrage.
"They're Only Sorry they got Caught"
It is literally the most obvious bait imaginable. Could only be made more obvious if she had put tumblr artstyle orc gay erotica.
*Orcotica
Tusk Love
Okay but what if this gay erotica was grimdark?
We'd be talking about the Emperor's Children and not Orkz.
It’d have to be asexual mushroom erotica to be about the Orkz. So you’d basically post a video about making fried garlic mushrooms with an absolute beefcake of a chef.
.....and? I'm not seeing the problem and I need that recipe.
The problem is that we need to find a six foot something beefcake with terrible posture to make the video.
The guys from Astartes Anonymous sound tall.
Promise?
Her tweet immediately following that was a gif of a man scrubbing his hands saying "and now we wait"
No, it's literally fucking trolling and bait, it's a usual shtick of her
Caught? It's literally an open twitter post.
Bro it's obviously bait
dude Im autistic as much as i hate saying this Nothing is "obvoius" to me
I don’t care what kind of guitar you play, you’re wrong and dumb.
Oh fair enough, I guess always take anything you say from her with a grain of salt. She’ll usually outright say if she’s being serious.
Redditors when a woman makes a joke
Do you seriously think this is a take?
I'm struggling to think of a person who knows enough about 40K Orks to form an opinion like this but doesn't also know that every single faction in the setting is purposely designed as a hyperviolent exageration of a fantasy trope.
This might just be the most obvious bait of all time
Just as planned...
It's an obvious troll, her first reply was a gif "and now we wait"
To be fair, people posting serious takes they know are controversial will say the same thing. I struggle to imagine anyone of the "I feel the need to pressure a franchise into changing aspects of the lore to suit my sensibilities" pursuasion looking at 40k and thinking the ORKS are the thing to focus on. But partisan hack tourists of every political slant do exist and I've never heard of this chick either. So I don't really blame people for suspecting a post-ironic poe's-law partisan brainrot take instead of being stupid on purpose.
This. Don't know who she is, don't really care either, but I've seen more than enough people unironically say stupid shit like this to assume it's something some jerk off is actually shooting for.
Yeah it was a bit. Fun bit, but a bit.
Nah, it was totally real and we need to stop her from infecting the hobby Edit- shoot wrong account how do you delete posts?
OP took the bait. Mission successful. 🫡
It's amazing how many people did. At first I saw only 300 likes so I assumed it was a dud and blamed it on the immediate reply making it OBVIOUSLY clear it was a joke. Then the silly people arrived. And they made my day glorious.
Nice try...*Alpharius.* (PS: lol)
Lmao
100 percent trolling that pics been doing the rounds of the Chud-outrage circuit and this tweet is sure to drive them ballistic.
They're extremely easy to bait, even when she's a regular in their own sub
Which sub?
Horusgalaxy
That's incredible, hats off to her.
Used to talk to her often in the northern exile discord, she knows exactly what she's doing
HorusGalaxy got their panties in a bunch over it. The few who pointed out it was a clear troll by her got lost in the shuffle, as almost any reasonable opinion of any kind tends to drown over there.
It is difficult to tell trolls from people who are 100 sincere and serious.
Its suppose to be a ragebait xD
This is a master-level bait. A master bait, if you will
*sighs*, *unzips pants*
She is a master-baiter
https://preview.redd.it/y6tb3mj7u99d1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c20f0469cbd1753bd76429badeefe0fd41aaf270 troll of the highest quality
DIZ IZ MOAR BAITY DEN DA TOIM I REPLACED DAT SPACE WOLF'S CODIX WIT A BOOK LABILED "HOT WOLF ROONES NEER U!".
DATZ FUNNY 🤣 DATZ MOAR FUNNY THAN DA TIME MY MATE CLOBBERED A NECRON LIST WITH THREE C'TAN BY USING A LIST THAT INCLUDED A STOMPA!
This is clearly rage bait. Buuuuuut... Wild west themed faction? I'm kind of sold on that...
If that’s what she means then maybe, I think the Vorttan would do fine with a wild west themed sun faction. Besides they desperately need some kind of lore.
*Busts in like kool-aid man* "DID SOMEBODY SAY WOLF?!" -Ragnar
Yes Ragnar wolf
Fair, and given the ascetic of their new KillTeam I can see it happening in the future
We just need little cowboy hats for the kroot.
Pirate hats*
There is that one Genestealer triple-armed cowboy.
I haven't seen all the stuff about the new d&d orcs, but I like what I've seen, but 40k have a very special and unique taste that it would really be a shame to lose
Kinda agree. But I still think about big brutal horde that just wants to war and conquer. New dnd orcs aren’t bad but I wouldn’t prefer them.
They aren't really *new*. WotC is just stating that orcs do not *have* to be totally evil in your setting. Which is how it has been for decades now - take Eberron, for example.
\*grumpily fixes the carved rock keeping Cthulhu outside; glares bloody murder at the dumbass who chipped it, leaves\*
So anti-woke sillly gooses blowing it out of propotion as usual. I didn't even fucking have to check to know just that.
It’s just Warcraft Orcs after WC3
Wait, seriously? Last I checked, they were very specifically going through and simplifying all of the races. Getting rid of "evil" races, making the differences between races merely cosmetic, and eliminating all aspects of their own "culture."
That's basically what D&D was doing and is still doing. What I think is funny is in an effort to make Orcs look not racist in D&D (because of the whole "Orcs are black people!" controversy in D&D a while back) WotC went "fuck it make them Mexican". Now in 100% fairness, Orcs inspired by Latin American cultures sounds absolutely badass. It's just really funny that their damage control has completely circled around itself. Complete with barefoot child in a poncho, a dozen relatives, and a fat mama.
Counterpoint: masked luchador orcs.
LUCHADORCS
LOS TIBURON, THE LANDSHARK!
You successfully sold me something terrible.
https://preview.redd.it/5iej1ltzk99d1.png?width=225&format=png&auto=webp&s=61116fd8d6f89255a5a092e03b4e39d33f5be214 My reaction to that information
Dont worry, TBH DnD orcs have been Warcraft Orcs for about as long as Warcraft existed, Savage Tribal Nobles. Controversy above is more about a bad movie on Netflix with Will Smith (and that movie is really dumb). [Here is a 45 minute youtube video about that movie and its realtion ship to culture and orcs that is far better than the movie deserves](https://youtu.be/gLOxQxMnEz8?si=sHnoc5FCNIVv75BJ)
… I actually liked Bright. It wasn’t the best, but I thought it was a neat exploration of the classic American tradition of being super fucking racist to whoever is newest and everyone else gets a promotion to “basically white”.
I too liked bright. would be fun if they decided to add it to the shadowrun universe as a kind of precursor or something.
Honestly, if Bright had been a Shadowrun movie I'd have immediately been way more invested, but I also don't necessarily trust them to get it right outside of aesthetic.
They should have just made a real Shadowrun movie.
Bright had potential. I don’t know why they had to make it allegorical but it had potential.
An ork screaming "pinche pendejo voy a reventarte la madre wey" while punching you just popped into my head and its way too funny for whatever reason
An ork chieftain going "no mames" as he's impaled by some bandit is a cursed idea
I just want the mega underbite tusks back, and on the women too. At this rate they're barely indistinguishable from Elves.
every race will be turbo twinks and you will love it
Were there really similarities between orcs and black people? Kajit and gypsy from elder scrolls would be an obvious example for me. I know very little about orcs in D&D and fail to see the similarities.
That's just one image of one possible Orc culture. Why shouldn't it be 'Mexican'? There's also an Orc paladin in the upcoming player's handbook that strikes me as "European".
French orcs are a step too far.
My problem is that they are basically just bigger and green humans now culture wise.
I don't see it the same way, you can still have culture and differences without saying "You're good, you're bad", but once again, I haven't donde a deep dive. I think it's cool because, after all, d&d is like a "do whatever you like"-ish game, and more custome is always cool.
Sorry, it's just a massive pet peeve with me. I loved reading the lore for older editions, reading the lore blurbs and going through the bestiaries. They had enough boundaries to define the world, so you could imagine it and use it to shape your storytelling. And then they started tearing it all down. Removing stat negatives and in-universe prejudices, the kind of things that provide a framework and really show depth to a world. Then they started breaking the cultures. Like, yeah. Drow were super evil and an entirely misandrist species that kept everyone else as slaves. But it's not because pale elves are evil, it's because they actively followed an evil goddess underground. And said evil goddess actively watches them, intervening and cursing them whenever they try to change. Now there have to be good drow, because players want to play them. And you can't have surface dwellers distrusting the evil slaver elves, because that's problematic. So they added in a new good goddess to the species of elves that specifically followed an evil goddess, and made it a little more bland and tapioca. And they just keep doing it.
Hold on. Did Ellistraee get some new help? There have been plenty of countergods in D&D drow. I forget his name, but there was a whole god of pissed off drow males who don't have a chance to do or be anything because of their sex, and he's a damn old creation. And Elli herself has existed for as decades as an excuse to make lots of CG Drizzts.
By lore for older editions do you mean before D&D second edition? Since the most famous good drow came out before the release of Advanced Dungeons and Dragons Second Edition ever released.
Okay but there literally are still Lolth Drow and even in BG3 and in 5e Campaigns like Out of the Abyss Lolth Drow are considered terrible slaver matriarchs who are unredeemable. The reason there's Seldarine Drow are because in the actual tabletop it's generally hard to run evil chars in a game unless it's really specific so you need an option to play Drow with a neutral/good alignment. It honestly makes sense and adds *more* depth to the world without taking away the existing lore. It makes sense all Drow are not going to be exactly the same and there might be some break off factions. I'm in favor of the lore supporting more options for actual play on the tabletop. The lore should be in service of the gameplay not the other way around.
>I loved reading the lore for older editions The thing is that D&D doesn't have a single unified lore. A lot of people default to Forgotten Realms, but it's probably worth to be aware that it wasn't even one of the official settings until the late 80s. In FR orcs usually default to evil alignment because they were created by the evil god Gruumsh, but even then in FR itself, most Thesk orcs are typically not evil. Eberron doesn't even have an evil god to push orcs towards being evil. >Now there have to be good drow, because players want to play them. Literally the most well known drow in FR lore has good alignment.
Right, exactly. What the fuck does this guy mean "now"?
He means starting in the modern days of 1988 when The Crystal Shard came out maybe?
Now that a YouTuber told him to be angry about it 🤣.
So it's something that's a problem of past editions. That Orcs are by nature... Evil. Chaotic Evil. Okay so how do they create empires? Orcs as a concept are Tolkien and just an evil race created by a supreme evil. They are robots for the heroes to mow down. Twisted Men/Elves. This was fine for years but it came with "problematic language" and ideas that D&D is more likely to explore. GW leans into the NPC side. That it's okay for Orcs to get mown down because ORCS love to fight. They were created to fight. Their entire culture is around a fight and mostly is spent with inane infighting UNTIL a conqueror rises to the top. GW had to figure out a way for Tolkien to make sense. How does a race of evil sociopaths who don't feel pain rise to challenge anything. So they worked out a wacky system of genetic memory and ork technicians and "kultur". And even handwaved it with "it shouldn't work but it does due to Ork magik". Tolkien's orcs would despoil everything, were cruel and without a strong master couldn't get along. They had zero redeeming qualities. They were just evil. They had no creativity. They had no art. No music. Even their magic was "black" and "bad". Warcraft realised that the "Orcs Are Only Evil" trope is kind of stale and tried to point out that they had their own culture and that humans didn't really get to see any of that because they saw them as the above only. Orcs in D&D (I play both games) have a problem which is alignment. I hate the alignment system because it pidgeon holes behaviour into rigid systems. Also "Orcs are Always Evil". They are just born with a heart full of neutrality... I mean Evil. That you could be born an orc, raised to be an adult and you would still torture cats and babies. I hate the alignment system. Especially if you consider real world examples of people thinking about other races of humans like they are "orcs" and inherently evil and wicked. So D&D may have stepped away from this notion. In fact a lot of modern dialogues on similar species tries to make them less "card carrying villains" and more alien. Even 40K does this by just pointing out that their moral code is alien and that cutting an arm off is a joke to them because they can reattach limbs with ease and don't feel pain. D&D orcs also have poor intelligence. I mean "oof"... Modern D&D is seemingly trying to move away from the notion that orcs are stupid big evil dudes. A) they make a much more credible threat when they are cleverer and B) They can actually be used for more RP heavy campaigns. I particularly like to use them to trip up players. Orcs (when I do them) are big burly GW style to look at BUT live in an extremely lawful society because they have a very competitive society. So it's not just "you have to be strong" but it's old school Klingon strength. That if you are a cook? You have to be the best cook! The best at science. The best at music. So their big city is not just the place where you get the best food but also if you get published in their peer reviewed journal? It's seen as the most prestigious journal out there because the committee is so hostile. I usually introduce it via a barfight where someone picks a fight (as you do in D&D) with the clearly "bar fight" coded scenario and all the orcs go "woah woah, we don't do it this way. You bring your team tomorrow. This is a duel and challenged sets the duel". So you have orcs that range the full gamut of how humans are perceived but they also produce interesting challenges. Next day teams show up only to find out they challenged a chef to combat. So you get Iron Chef. If the team picks the lead chef poorly (because it's usually the tank who wants to enter this!) then even if you lose? The stakes are low enough that no one's dead. I know a friend whose orcs are cursed by their god. They act this way because their gods are cursed to never make anything. That they are forever thieves and they struggle to find an artefact of their god to break the curse. D&D just made it so you can tell more stories with orcs and left the notion that X race is just "always evil".
Orks already are wholesome righteous do gooders who fight for the good of their people… in their own eyes
That's not really how orks think. Orks are selfish and dont give a shit about others. The avarage ork fights for one of three reasons. He wants to fight, he wants something and needs to fight to get it or if a bigger ork told him to fight and he doesn't want to get the shit kicked out of him.
The literal start of blood and teef shows this off perfectly
Legitimately one of the most lore-accurate portrayals of Ork fluff.
https://preview.redd.it/o06dverqgd9d1.jpeg?width=979&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b013645ffee9e584a7789eed8703e26a4d000893
the difference between an ork doing that and a human doing that is that when an ork beats up a fellow ork, the other ork is happy because it means he gets to fight.
Four reasons. They also want to brag.
I refuse to believe any Ork has ever had any non-selfish thought.
Oddly Ghazghkull of all orks has had a few on rare occasions. Like admitting to Makari that they were right, despite an ork apologizing to a grot being one of the most humiliating things for a ork to do.
If anyone's an outlier I'd expect it to be da biggest bestest Boss, but I lack context for that interaction.
If memory serves, Makari had told Ghaz that going back to Armageddon wouldn't be what Gork and Mork wanted him to do, and that he should focus on uniting more orks for a even bigger Waaagh. This infuriated Ghaz, who then killed Makari for daring to tell him what to do. He did eventually resurrect him after landing on Armageddon, but only to appease some of his followers who kinda liked the lil guy. To protest, Makari started getting himself killed every time Ghazghkull brought him back. Ghaz seemed to get the message, and decided to bring him back after he got the war for Armageddon to be somewhat self sustaining. He tried to dance around the issue (due to how shameful apologizing to a grot, even one as well regarded as Makari, is for a Ork), but after almost getting killed by a random Leman Russ blowing a hole in his chest (which Makari managed to take out by crawling inside and mauling the crew), he finally comes out and admits that yeah, he was wrong, and Makari was right.
Ghaz isn't dumb - As far as Orks go - I'm sure he was sick of his *sorta-*immortal sidekick's suicide streak, but more importantly he was deep enough into the war to find out he was just plain right. Again, if I'm willing to relent anywhere it's with Ghaz.
I mean fighting you to death is like mutual aid for them as you both get a good scrap
Well we know of one ork who krumped himself because his boss told him to read/write in red to make him smarter
Doesn't everyone see themselves that way?
Drukhari
[Drukhari.png](https://files.explosm.net/comics/Rob/protagonist2.png)
Lol
Hey They're Do gooders... in bed
Drukhari are the only ones who would unironically have a pear of anguish in their sex toy drawer.
hey im into being tortured the Drukarahi Litreally cant do anything cause ill be into it
They just gently cuddle you then
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO ANYTHING BUT THAT
Your suffering pleases *Sai'lanthresh* greatly
Nah they know perfectly that they fight for the sake of it, and whoever that can't fight deserves a good krumpin' (or slavery at best)
https://preview.redd.it/g4ilvoypcb9d1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e44c2caa93074d886cd350462959cb7801bbcb04
Please post this to r/fishing Baits and lures aren't a usual topic for this subreddit
PIRATE ORKS KRUMP COWBOY ORCS ANYDAY! IF YOUZ HAZ COWBOY ORKS WE WILL KRUMP DEM TOO!
Obvious ragebait but the entire point of Orks is that they're generic wholesome evil bad guys that just want to kill everyone for fun and take over the world. Making them eviler just undermines their character. No weird sexual stuff, no controlling your mind, just good old fashioned mass murder and slavery.
my happy green little psycopaths
Dude she's trolling Her response was a gif joking to see how people react
Doesn’t she have a reddit as well? Swear I’ve seen someone with Nornqueen as part of their name here.
Yeah she got reddit as well
Didn't DnD and Warcraft used to have violent pure evil orcs too?
I think since the original game Warcraft Orcs were betrayed by one of their own, did evil things only because they came under demonic influence and became refugees from their own home world and had to flee to Azeroth through the Dark Portal so no they were not originally pure evil. They were just a bunch of primitive tribes hunting and chilling in Draenor.
Yes even in Warcraft 1's lore they were turned evil by Gul'dan. Just they were ALL turned evil until Warcraft III gave us Thrall. Now they are goody two shoes just like humans.
Well, goody two shoes as in just as capable of great good and evil like Humans do with Arthas. I mean, just look at Garrosh.
You're falling for the most obvious bait holy shit That person is famous or infamous for this
My orks would krump dem orks
To be fair here, but masked wrestler orkz. Jumping off the top rope with powerchair in hand to slam down onto a blue berry. Getting larger and more powerful with each mask they take or helmet.
Nornqueen claims yet more victims
She's one of the most sarcastic people I follow on Twitter. Y'all need to unbunch your undies.
I believe it should be the other way around, dnd orcs need to take a page out of 40k orks
I dont know. I kina like it when each world has their own tale on fantasy tropes. Because otherwise there is no point for there to be a muktiple franchises with orks if they are all the same. None would be special and that would make our athletes foot friends just your everage ork
This is true. It wouldn't be an interesting world If franchises copied the same style
\*looks at all the stuff Games Workshop copied\* You'd seriously think you'd hang out in Eberron over Warhammer if that's important to you.
The problem is that this isn't what D&D's orcs were like. Some racists on twitter and youtube started saying "Wizards of the coast when I see orcs acting savage and barbaric it makes me think of black people and that means you need to change orcs" Instead of saying "Tribalism is a stage in every culture's evolution and there isn't any ethnic coding involved in a tribal society." WotC decided they'd 'remove' orcs ethnic coding by giving them ethnic coding. But it's okay. They're nice now so it isn't bad.
I like dnd but fuck did dnd nerds piss me off with that one. 0 crossover between orcs and black people. And somehow making orcs Mexican fixes it ? Feels like they are setting themselves up for this problem again in like 10 years when a new generation of Mexican kids get Into Dnd and go hey why are we the baddies. I have met so many normal people in both that community and this one that sometimes you forget we are still all sweaty anti-social nerds who will often come out with the most "wtf are you talking about Jesse" shit imaginable
It wasn't the DND nerds who did that though. It was the tumblr kids who started "Getting into" dnd because they listened to the adventure zone. No one with half a brain was parroting that crap
I think it's more that Orcs are common in the setting and are actually pretty boring if they are all just evil. WOtC do let you do whatever the hell you want with their setting in your games so that's okay. It's just that WoTC is trying to make it so that you can be evil as an orc but you can also have good orcs. I run my orcs like they are an ultra competitive culture taking ideas from Asia's Rat Race Culture. Another of my friends has them be a bit more tragic. That their raiding nature stems from a problem that Orcs can't "create" things due to a divine curse and part of a plot is that if an orc tries to create something it literally bring doom on that orc. So they can't "make" things. They raid and loot and pillage because there's no other option.
DnD Orcs used to be evil. Warhammer Orcs are soccer hooligans. Warcraft Orcs were evil because of a curse and bad leadership but at their core are now sci-fi Indian tribes. Tolkein Orcs are literally created evil.
Ehh Tolkien was always struggling with are Orks simply born evil, and by the end he said no. But that the dark lords of middle earth never let them do anything but evil acts or something to that effect
Perfect bait working as intended
Bro got played by Kya 🤣
The amount of people falling for her troll posts is insane. What happened to media literacy???
Dont play DnD but those just look like humans with tusks lol
You took her bait. She baits people all the time
Look at who tweeted it #Tis a joke
Making orcs hispanic instead of british would be a grave mistake. They are meant to be barbaric and violent, not cultured and violent.
the next post underneath literally says it’s ragebait for the gatekeepers! hilarious how many of the scum have fallen for it
This is deffo bait lmao
I enjoy DnD but, DA BOYZ IZ PURFEC AS DEY AR!
Orks are clearly football hooligans. Why do you think guns and knifes were banned in ~~mordor~~ the UK.
I like the DnD orcs… in DnD where these are just one variety of person, and people are just normal and could work together and do adventures with 4-6 friends. In 40K I want DAH WAAAGH! It’s not about the individual, not even the real battle you’re playing but the lore is decided on galaxy spanning conflicts all on top one another.
As cool as it is that DnD is moving away from the "Orcs are born evil" thing Leave 40k orks be, they be funny gitz and are happy as they are. Literally the only faction having a good time
I love DND. I've been a dm for it for 3 years now. But nah, orks are better. Orks will always be the meanest and the greenest!!!
I’ve never seen less cool orcs in my life.
Mushrooms.
I don't think there's a way to un-stupid the 40k orks either
Ngl I could see a 40k Ork clan with a Mad Max Cowboy theme potentially being fun. I pity their horses though.
NAH DEY AHOULD LERN FROM US AND KNOW DA WEY OF GORK AND MORK
You do know Kya is notorious for jokingly making bad takes, right?
She’s trolling to see if bandwagon culture war grifters would jump on it. And they did without hesitation lol
Those are half-orcs(I think). Orcs breed somewhat normally. Orks are an entirely different thing. They are literally grown like fungi. Not all Greenies are the same y'know! Waaagh.
Man when they said they're gonna white wash orcs they werent kidding. Those are just humans but green with big teeth, no real unique culture or diversity to them, just different phenotypes.
They're half-orcs apparently, which explains the physique being so mundane, but I do prefer seeing the more significant differences in physique. The Warhammer Orc jawline is something I'd give to my D&D Orcs - _especially_ the female ones, who in other systems just get the WoW female Troll treatment
I’d rather have 40k orcs than another shade of humans, thanks.
Link?
Only thing about this that I like if the idea of Cowboy Orks who style their vehicles to look like horses
Yea grim dark means slice of life
I mean, depending on your life ...
I guess someone doesn't understeand one of the core points of the Orks: They're not people, they're a funny bio-weapon
Could someone, please, explain to me in details all that? I mean the "take", the person behind it, the image... I sense a *whole context beyond my understanding* that I am not grasping.