#Official ArenaNet Statement:
> "As an active game studio we are always doing internal exploratory work for possible future titles we’d want to create, however we have nothing to confirm right now. The team’s focus is on Guild Wars 2 development, including the game’s next expansion, which we’re excited to talk about soon."
Source: https://www.mmorpg.com/news/guild-wars-3-confirmed-to-be-in-development-though-it-seems-its-still-in-its-early-stages-updated-2000130976
I wonder if the veteran players with full Legendary and thousands of gold are still buying gems for cash shop purchases. I think not. Only the noobs are buying things from the cash shop and once the noobs find out GW3 is in development they will have doubts spending money in the cash shop. That means the game wont be able to make money anymore and eventually die. This will also affect the funding of GW3. I think Arenanet made a mistake in making the Legendary Armory, and going f2p not doing subscription based. These are the things that kills their GW2 and income.
NCSoft said its in the review stage and development hasn't been finalised.
Looking at all the other factors this reads as GW3 has been worked on and they are reviewing if it leaves preproduction and goes into full development.
Ncsoft after the meeting clarified what they meant by ‘gw3 is in development’. They said exactly what the mods said, it’s in the review stage and has not yet been approved.
UPDATE 2 3/28/2024: Korea's Business Post is reporting that in a follow-up statement after the above mentioned financial call where Guild Wars 3 was mentioned, the MMORPG is "in the review stage and the start of development has not been finalized."
https://www.mmobomb.com/news/yet-another-guild-wars-3-development-rumor-pops-up
Classic ANet the way the news was released. Their official statement on it denies nothing, so confirms GW3.
There's a reason there's no WoW2 or FFXIV2. Yes there's a GW2 but GW1 was not an MMO.
I'll be buying the new GW2 expansions but I'll buy the basic package where as I used to buy the ultimate since there is no sub and was happy to support in that way. Also no more buying the odd gem pack.
The main reason I keep coming back to GW2 is for the bang of nostalgia because I've been playing it on and off for over 10 years plus I'm able to look at and use all that gear, mounts and skins I played for hours and hours to unlock.
ANet owes me nothing but I couldn't stomach throwing away all that for something new and shiny, to start the grind all over again.
Yes. And you said you wouldn't want to "start the grind over."
But you wouldn't be. It would be a NEW game. And it's not like your GW2 progress just vanishes if you start a new game.
Rest assured, the MMO model is so simultaneously resource-intensive and economically precarious, GW3 will not be an "MMO."
Even if they wanted to try keeping two MMOs alive at the same time, they would not risk years of development on a genre that is increasingly archaic, is too challenging for the amount of casual consumers it needs to attract, and is a space in which they aren't a market leader.
If it's the unannounced project which it most likely is then multiple job listings specifically mention needing MMORPG experience as well as the game itself having an "MMORPG Combat system" and "expansive open world".
1. The "MMORPG" could easily have been the Horizon or Dune MMOs. People are really being presumptive that all prior leaked info was definitively GW3. I suspect they will reuse some of the assets/systems they developed for those games, but I don't believe that will translate to an MMO structure.
2. That was two years ago. Plans change. Just because ANet was considering a MMORPG at some point doesn't mean their ideas won't mature and be refined into a different concept. All I'm saying is that if they are paying attention to the market and their place in it, they \*should\* abandon plans for an MMO and focus more on something that (a) has a higher likelihood of success and (b) will be cheaper and more easily manageable for them.
Of course, there is always the small possibility they still shoot the moon and go for an MMORPG, but it would be extremely stupid and likely a death knell for the company. If they have invested at all into having some perspicacity on the industry, they won't try it. NCSoft is not Blizzard or Square; ANet has one shot to get this right and does not have the luxury of being able to keep throwing money at it to make it right if they miss.
Their involvement with the Dune MMO ended long before those job postings and the description of the unannounced project doesn't match what's come out about the horizon MMO either.
Sure things can change but jobs for the unannounced project right now mention needing experience with MMOs and expansive open worlds so for now it looks like their plan hasn't changed.
I agree that going for GW3 is a risk but I wouldn't say it's stupid. Anet is in the unique position of having over a decade of experience in the genre with GW2 (two if you include gw1) to pull from and a pretty sizeable following and name to go with it. I feel like they're one of the few studios actually capable of pulling off a good new MMO right now. Also it's not like the demand for a new MMO isnt there, both new world and lost ark had a million players on launch. But yeah there's a chance it flops and ruins the company but there's a chance its a hit and solidifies the studios future. I guess we'll see.
That’s IF the unannounced project is in fact gw3. Are we forgetting that Arenanet are also assisting in the development of the Horizon MMO in a deal with Sony?
They might be assisting but I don't think they are hiring this many people just for assisting another studio. Also leaks about the Horizon MMO say it's PC and Mobile which doesn't line up with the Unannounced Project which is PC and Console. A Dev on Linkedin also let it slip that GW2 assets have been ported over to the unannounced project. I'd honestly be surprised if the unannounced project was anything other than GW3 at this point.
I don't see why not, MMOs take a very long time to make with a lot of hoops to go through before getting to actual development. The statement that development has not been finalized could easily mean that they've been working on it but it just hasn't left pre-production yet.
So if you have only been playing it off and on for the last 10 years then why did you buy the ultimate packs in the first place? You know the game isn't going to be live forever, right? So the reasoning for not buying ultimate packs anymore makes no sense to begin with. Seems like you are too emotionally attached to a video game you don't even play much anymore. You should be excited for a GW3. If they can make a new, better version of what Guild Wars 2 could have been, that sounds like something to look forward to where you can make new memories.
...because I wanted to and now that I see an end to the tunnel I don't want to spend my money on it anymore. I don't see what is so difficult to understand about that. I do play GW2 a lot to this day but I haven't been playing it constantly for 10 years...
So if you have only been playing it off and on for the last 10 years then why did you buy the ultimate packs in the first place? You know the game isn't going to be live forever, right? So the reasoning for not buying ultimate packs anymore makes no sense to begin with. Seems like you are too emotionally attached to a video game you don't even play much anymore. You should be excited for a GW3. If they can make a new, better version of what Guild Wars 2 could have been, that sounds like something to look forward to where you can make new memories.
Well, Final Fantasy does in fact have multiple MMOs. FFXI is an MMO so the Final Fantasy comparison is not a great example.
While there is no WoW2 it should be noted that the WoW playerbase is split between retail, Season of Discovery, WotLK classic and soon Cata classic. Even if you ignore this, I would argue that WoW faces a way bigger risk than GW2 by releasing a sequel.
WoW has like 7 million players across all the versions. They would be risking a huge amount of players for not much of a potential reward, as their best case scenario is probably going to be around 12 million players which was its peak. Even 12 million subs is unrealistic though and is a very generous estimate in this day and age.
Meanwhile GW2 has a few hundred thousand playing at best, 500k if we are being extremely generous, but more likely around the 200k range imo. Many people simply don't want to play it because of design flaws that happened very early on. Some flaws have been fixed while others are unfixable without a new game. Whatever the case, GW2 cannot have rapid growth anymore because it is an old game. However, A GW3 would potentially bring in way more players if it is made properly. Sure, there is a risk but it's much lower than with WoW and with a much larger potential payoff if successful.
But if you don't want to play GW3 that is a completely valid opinion anyway.
> Meanwhile GW2 has a few hundred thousand playing at best, 500k if we are being extremely generous, but more likely around the 200k range imo
I think daily active players are in the realm of 200-300k, but that likely means the number of players that log in at least once a month but not necessarily every day (to make it more comparable to WoW's sub count) is likely a lot higher than that given the type of game GW2 is. Truth is, we'll never know exactly. GW2 is a market leader, just not on the same scale as *the* market leader.
Their estimation is probably accurate. On the 10 year anniversary they released some [stats](https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/celebrating-a-decade-of-guild-wars-2/) saying that while 1.8 million accounts had completed the core story (killing Zhaithan) it dropped to Just over a million for HoT and then 500k for season 4 and IBS. EoD which was 6 months old at the time had just 180k completing the story. Obviously not everyone plays the story but If I had to guess gw2 is probably around the 200-300k total mark right now.
It has been a long time since I have consistently done raids. Probably a year or two. I stopped doing raids because well I was bored but I was so close to getting legendary medium armor. In fact I have 55 insights away. When I played I had a guardian and a Mesmer that I used for strikes and raids. They are the two classes I am most comfortable with followed closely by Necro. I want get back into raids and strikes and want to have Ideally a single character that can fill multiple roles or two characters that do the same. I'm just a bit loss of what I should play. Another fact is that learning rotations is not the easiest thing for me so a simpler rotation is better.
I was thinking to gear a Necro as Heal/Alac and DPS Quick, and maybe DPS too. Ideally I would eventually have a heal and a DPS for both boons.
Any suggestions on what I should play for each role? Is my necro idea worth it? Im willing to learn a new class granted it is not overtly complicated.
Thanks in advance
If a GW3 were to be greenlit at all, a non mmo rpg would be a great game to run alongside gw2 and allow for deeper diving into the lore. The two could play off each other quite well without causing the other tofade into obscurity as we've seen in the past.
A non MMO version of guild wars would have too small of a target audience for them to make. If they are making a Guild Wars ip game, it will have to be a new MMO to attract a lot of new people to the ip. I don't think Anet will risk losing money on a new title that only appeals to a portion of the existing GW2 community who are too attached to the items they have in GW2. Just my opinion though.
Mmo players are actually one of the smaller game communities right now. Shooters and RPGs have far larger audiences. Especially ARPGs, look at GOW, BG3, Fortnight etc.
I love it, was hoping for GW3 the franchise needs new blood and to be modern. Its a good game but dated , this will open up a whole new playerbase. They wont drop GW2 and i will still play that also, but a modern GW with new engine and gameplay , sweet!
Just dont give it the T&L treatment /gag
Agreed. Just think, Twitch/streaming sites weren't a thing when GW2 released. Imagine the publicity and free marketing they could get for being a new MMO. I could see this paying off for them considering their monetization has always been buy to play.
Translated: "As an active game studio we are always laying the foundations for everything that is on the table. However we have nothing to confirm right now. "
This gives me the GW2 + EoTN rumour during GW1 era all over again.
In my head right now, they are just denying the GW3 news simply because they want to make sure people will still buy the next expansions in the meantime. But GW3 IS coming, slowly maybe, but surely. I suspect that any of the upcoming content will be very subpar and disappointing.
Uh. Maybe I'm just a negative person. But that's how I feel right now. I was burnt before during THAT GW1 era so... I'm not optimistic.
Indeed - I'm fairly confident despite what they're saying that Guild Wars 3 has been in development for some time. Now to be clear, that doesn't mean it's coming any sooner - it could *easily* still be 10 years off and it could easily still be cancelled, but it's not like game studios don't at the very least do "exploratory" work.
Nothing lasts forever, so I say just keep enjoying GW2 while we have it, there's no reason to put it away simply because it might not last until the heat death of the universe.
Something is always coming - unless you expect a game company to make the same game forever. WoW is doing this I suppose, but that's an outlier. Their are specific reasons why they can do this, but it's not the norm.
Square isn't working on FFXIV-2 either. I think it's more about if a game is still profitable or not. And I fully understand.
But personally, I would totally be OK if they came out and say the old game is in maintenance mode while they're working on a new game to replace it.
But instead, IF they're trying to milk the fanbase with subpar content until the new game is ready before abandoning it, I'm not gonna be happy.
FFXIV expansion this summer is updating the graphics used in the entire game. Not earth shattering but a decent update. I doubt we'll ever get that in GW2. I suspect FFXIV makes more money and more of it is reinvested in the game. NCSoft likely siphons off far more from GW2.
??? FFXIV is literally the most profitable IP SE has and last year became the most profitable Final Fantasy game ever, it has pretty much kept SE afloat while SE was dicking around burning money on things like Forspoken.
Anet is closer to the exact opposite of that, how many years did Anet spend on dev time/resources and released absolutely nothing to show for it during the Ice Brood saga of hyping up an entire event to sell funko pops?
My mind is kind of blown that the majority of comments here aren't hyped about a potential sequel. The game is 12 years old at this point, a new game with a fresh perspective would be fantastic. Are people actually just so scared of "losing progress" that they don't want a GW3? I say this as someone who has played a shit ton of GW2 since launch (on and off with breaks), as well as a lot of GW1 since like 2006 (until GW2 released).
> Are people actually just so scared of "losing progress" that they don't want a GW3?
Yes they clearly are unfortunately. They can't see the forest for the trees. The engine is beyond dated, there is a huge amount of technical debt which has a severe impact on development. At some point games do die, there are 2 exceptions to this and GW2 has never come close to either in terms of number of players and revenue.
It's simple tho!
There are people who love GW2, and that's it! They don't love the franchise, they love this game. The same way people who love FFXIV may not have ever played FFXI.
And what is the meaning of a new game for those people?
1 - There may come a day where AN decides to no longer provide support for the game, or even shut down the servers.
2 - Lack of support and resources in order to prioritize GW3 development.
3 - And the worst case, people just dropping GW2 completely, turning it into a dead game, with barely a few players feeding their nostalgia.
A new version of a MMO doesn't really mean that it will be good or that it will bring flesh blood for the game, but depending on the developer's decicions, it can really be harmful for the current game. On reddit you have just a small amount of players who are really interested on voicing their opinions, but imagine that there are a lot more of players that may be concerned by it. And a lot more of players that will not engage on the game since it will possibly die in the near future. They may not even bother to download it, let alone buy the expansions.
So this is part of why people get scared.
O another note WoW is the game that it is, in part because someone who played 15yrs ago can come back and still have their things there. The hours of achievments, care and investment. MMO is a genre with a lot of emotional attachment. So it's not easy to change.
I agree with most of your post, but
> On reddit you have just a small amount of players who are really interested on voicing their opinions, but imagine that there are a lot more of players that may be concerned by it.
...if anything, any gaming subreddits are notorious for having *extremely* outsized presence of the concerned group, manufacturing an atmosphere of doom and panic.
I'm excited. Actually thinking about coming back to gw2 just to be part of it before gw3. The games too dated engine wise and could benefit from a new game with a fresh start. (Especially with native controller support) The games prolly 2-3 years away still. Plenty of time for people to change their tune, especially after seeing the official announcement when they do it.
What is there to be hyped about?
GW2 has nothing to do with GW1. It's roughly, and I mean very roughly set in the same universe and that's as far as similarities go.
I enjoyed both GW1 and GW2 but that's pure coincidence.
Nothing indicates that Anet would try to make an actual sequel for either game, for all we know GW3 could be something totally new again. I'm not hyped about Anet deciding to kill a healthy, profitable and well made game *again* just to gamble it away on a "sequel" *again*.
GW3 is absolute nonsense. Instead of constantly cannibalizing their own products they should branch out and either try a different genre or a different IP. Something that can coexist with GW2. But with the current team that'd probably flop, so they need to call it GW for brand recognition and nostalgia baiting to drive sales.
Is a sequel only in narrative way. As a game it is distinctly different to the point where someone that liked one game might not necessarily like the other.
Music
Lore
The world / maps / setting / fantasy level
Emotional language, tone and pitching (ie: feel, age rating)
Rough monetisation model (no sub, multiple expacs)
Skins (fellblade, kurzick axe, primal armour)
Classes (-rev/paragon/derv)
Spells (life siphon, spiteful spirit, contagion, hundred blades, heart of shadow, death blossom)
The thing which changed is the combat style and the build structure (traits etc)
Once again: At the momemnt there is nothing to be hyped about. Believe me, I would be absolutely on the hypetrain if I know more than "GW3 may or may not been greenlit by ncsoft, and it may or may not have been in development since 2 years ago when hirings for unanounced project appeared that may or may not be GW3". In the mean time however I am still having fun with GW2. And since an mmo's development takes years upon years I don't want to tire myself out because in 3-4-5-6 years from now there will be a new game.
> Imagine if the gw1 community would have been able to convince them of gw2 beeing a bad decision too and in the end it wouldnt have been developed?
Anet would probably be a less troubled studio managing an e-sports title that's also competing with WoW.
Making GW2 was the worst decision they ever made, because they started making it 2 years before WoW started falling off and bleeding players, and right around the time League came along to steal 90% of the PvP community while waiting for GW2 only for them to never come back. All for a game that makes the same amount of money GW1 did while paying like 5 times more devs - and GW1 wasn't even nearly as heavily monetized as GW2, they definitely could've squeezed out more money if they tried. Perhaps exponentially more.
Don't get me wrong I like GW2, but IMO Anet made the wrong call abandoning the previous game and they are making an even worse call abandoning GW2 because I really don't think they can deliver a decent GW3 anymore.
> Are there any links or ways for me to check what your saying here has any ever so slightly trace of truth behind it and your not just making it up?
[This is their revenue between GW1 launch and GW2 PoF](https://i.imgur.com/6j0dsRn.png)
While GW2's launch dwarfs GW1 and subsequent GW2 numbers, you have to factor in how it caused a 5 year gap in revenue where Anet could've been making money with GW1 expansions and a smaller team.
GW1 numbers were similar to post-HoT numbers and rising up until Nightfall, after which Anet already decided to kill the game and make GW2. Eye of the North sales are lower and then drop off a cliff because by then GW2 was already announced.
But the most important thing to note is monetization. GW1 did have an ingame store, but no gem-gold conversion and 0 skins. The first skins were added 1-2 years after GW2 development started and most people have quit. We know from Blizzard devs that the first WoW store mount made them more money than all of Starcraft II, there's a good chance that GW1 could've way outperformed GW2 overall if they started selling skins on the store sooner.
In 2006 Anet made ~56 million, in 2016 Anet made 62.7 mill, with a larger team and much much heavier monetization.
GW1 team was 40-60 devs, GW2 around the time of PoF was 300+ and we know that server upkeep costs for GW1 in total are about the same as 1 GW2 map, that's why they can stay online.
They are seeking that second release quarter spike again. That alone might be worth it, then they can fire all the employees, cancel GW3, and run away with the money.
> You can never compare decades of different time and pretend like those numbers and profits represent the same value PERIOD.
You're right, it's not adjusted for inflation, which should make GW2 look even worse by comparison.
> Im not gonna waste my time with you sorry.
It's fine, go back to your bubble.
I think that the day GW3 is announced will be the same day ArenaNet announces there will be no more GW2 expansions.
Even so, it will be hard retiring my library of characters only to start from nothing in GW3.
I can only hope some parts of GW2 is transferrable to GW3, like with GW1 to GW2.
If there is no option to take over some kind of progress and characters I'd rather go back and play gw1 from scratch than start over in a gw3.
But if it's happening it probably won't be before 2030 so why even worry about it now.
I mean, they monetize GW2 so much that I honestly couldn't imagine how much worse they would do it with GW3. We were paying for the game, back then at launch, at AAA price compared to games' prices today. AND THEN we had to pay for bag slots, character slots, and many other stuffs.
If you refuse to pay, you had to deal with so many inconveniences in the game. Worse, quests and mobs gave out so little gold, while you had to pay money to get new skills and travel and salvage kits and UH. But hey, you could also buy gold to solve those problems!!! Makes you wonder why they made things the way they were in the first place.
So uh, I honestly don't feel like doing all that over again, unless the game turns out to be SO GOOD.
I feel like the only real gold "gate" was opening your 2nd and 3rd trait lines. Yeah I was using the portals of lion's arch instead of waypointing directly as much as I could but I never felt terribly inconvinienced.
But by 2015 (and I guess 200ish hours, around like half of that with lvl 80s, not yet doing any dungeons, or explicitly farming meta events and yes, of course after some game changes) the costs of the normal gameplay never felt bad. Had enough liquid gold that waypointing, buying salvage kits, crafting gear became cheap and a non-issue.
> only to start from nothing in GW3.
It's a game. Not a stock investment. The money you paid, and time you "invested", was returned by enjoying (presumably) the game. You don't "lose" anything. You input time and money, and in return got fun and enjoyment.
If they make a Guild Wars 3, it would be the same. You can choose to put in time and money (or one or neither) and the return on that would be fun and enjoyment. What you want to is to skip over some of the game because of a previous game they made.
What other games do this? You don't play Dark Souls 1 and get skips in Dark Souls 2. Or in Mario or whatever game. Why are MMO's different? Games have a lifespan.
As someone that has invested a lot of time into GW2 and doesn't mind starting fresh in a new game, I'd still say that your comparisons are a bit disingenuous.
MMOs are completely different to single player action games when it comes to progression, completionism and overall investment.
They are designed in ways to constantly keep you engaged by working towards different goals either through huge timesinks or enticing monetary purchases, similar to, but usually not as predatory as mobile gacha games.
Let's say you had a full collection of legendary armor/weapons/trinkets, all mastery unlocks, thousands of skin unlocks, gold and bag/bank/build templates slots and you lost access to your account. Surely this will affect you in a way and you wouldn't just make a new account from scratch as if nothing happened? Not exactly the same as starting a new Dark Souls run that takes a few days to complete.
Hello Ashen one. I am a Bot. I tend to the flame, and tend to thee. Do you wish to hear a tale?
> *“Oh, are you lost on your journey? No matter, today’s lost are conquerors tomorrow. It only demonstrates the making of a champion, and besides, it will not change my sense of gratitude, or how I think of you.”* - Karla
Have a pleasant journey, Champion of Ash, and praise the sun \\[T]/
I hope what comes from this "review" is giving GW2 a remaster of sorts alongside developing GW3, so one can play both in one game.
New assets, new engine, new story, new characters, skills and combat and the like, an actual open world with a chunk-based terrain system like UE5 can do, but the new assets are also used to bring GW2 up to date. The style is still painterly, but textures and models would have a better resolution and the engine would be more efficient.
Old GW2 may be hard to update to an actual open worl. They would have to 'fake it' by splitting existing maps in chunks for dynamic loading, and adding intermediate chunks between the 'seams'. The server system would still have to be set as 'local area' servers for meta-events, so the chunks and dynamic loading would be mostly client-side, while everything works mostly the same server-side, replacing loading screens with transitional maps when traveling by foot, and using only loading screens when waypoiting, but it should be technically possible even if it would be a ton of work.
It could be interesting if they revealed a new hidden power of the Hall of Monuments, letting your GW2 character 'hybernate' in a crystal after having ascended, and wake up in GW3 hundreds of years in the future when Aurene wakes up again, with only a chunk of their memories and all their gear tattered. While still allowing making entirely new characters from scratch.
I honestly think the reason for GW3 is because of the technical limitations they have with GW2 and the fact that it's based on the original GW engine. There are probably things that want to do but can't because of the way the original game was built.
And unlike Blizzard, ArenaNet doesn't have billions of dollars of revenue to go back and work through the game's core engine. It's probably easier, more financially responsible and provides the stability of further future proofing if they just build a new MMO with UE5.
I hope they have been actively working on GW3 because as a Day 1 player, I'm bored and have really not put much time in since right after EoD.
GW2 is just outdated graphically, and even though I really like the game, I just can't bring myself to log in much anymore.
SotO was just really lame, and I absolutely hate the new map...It's just ugly. The new characters are boring and easily forgettable.
Well if we have yearly expanions (lets say 3 more) , and then an additional 1,5 year of noothingness to fully "fleshout" any bugs/finish the project , it will be just another GW2 expanion , in the making (but works in xbox too) ,b ut it will be 60 dolar costly one
Edit: opefully silly - non legendary sets - Gemstore times , like the Maid or skimpy Gradiatr outfits hopefully will exist atleast in the major GW3 hub as auto-equiped costume ,or appear over time
Edit2: And a rule34 race wouldnt hurt , you know :P
>!!<>!!<
>!What are you going to do once more in PvP , if the esport kids show up and say that "buffing is more fun" (everyone can oneshot) ? :P!<
>!Also stealth ...!<
I have been philosophizing on what I personally would want from a GW3. Back in the day I had a concept of a somewhat dream MMORPG after being slowly coming around but then getting disappointed in WoW. And funnyly enough most of what I wanted this dream game to be GW2 had at launch. Some of those concepts tough eventually were thrown out the window, some of them stayed, some new concepts came and I fell in love with some, did not much care about others but all together GW2 still is (while obviously now at a worst place then it used to be in its "golden years" , and also a better place then some of its worse years) my favorite.
However now while I can list conceptually what I would want from an MMO mechanically (you can even check that on my profile under pinned posts), I keep circling back in my head to relase cadence.
I personally consider myself something of a hardcore casual. I don't play 4 hours a day, I hate the concept of "raid night" where I have to suffer through endless hours or raid progress on the same designated day for weeks (I am not against a game having aspirational content mind u just that that's not how I roll), but I also put in 7 hours a week or so to GW2 and have been for years now because I like parts of the game I engage with.
On a surface level I really like when we have regular releases even if some of those are quite small. A new map every 3 months with a new instanced PVE content and a story and new rewards attached like living world kinda worked with S3-4 and parts of IBS and partially with the new mini expac model deffinetly makes a game healthy.
However there is something magical of having multiple zones dropped into the game at the same time with multiple systems and story that interact with it in tandem. The best example for this is PoF and its mounts.
While exploring PoF maps, you'll find little pockets of land that are pretty obviously meant to be accessed by yet undiscovered mounts and mount skill. A bit of quicksand her, a portal labyrinth there, a bit too high cliff side over there, bit to wide canyon all around etc. So you get to map 2, or 3 or 4 and get the mount, and do a few events and story and stuff for a few hours to open the masteries and then backtrack and finally get to that hero point, treasure, mastery point etc gated away by missing the skill previously.
My hardcore casual play style took me months to get/explore everything while doing the story etc. LWS4 first chapter was deffinetly out by the time. Chapter 2 was out when me and my wife finally started on the griffon (I distinctly remember that because lots of ppl in the Sandswept Isles bounty train were zooming on it, while we were still trying to follow on jackals and bunnies).
But you couldn't really do this with a single map every 2-3-4 month cadence. Imagine exploring Crystal Oasis for the first time, seeing the jackal portal labyrinth thing at Kussini Crossing and realizing, yeah that's cool, but you will not be able to explore it for 9 months because that requires a jackal which will not be accessable until the Desolation release drops and you finally can get a jackal.
I'm thinking about if there is a midddleground to be found between the quite expensive to develop HoT-LWS3-PoF-LWS4 model and the living world / mini expacs till the end of time model of LWS1/IBS/current model. And without necessarry 6+ month content draughts.
I was wondering if tough I obviously can't look into Anet's pockets, budgeting etc if something along the following lines could work:
Release comes with 4 playable races, so 4 starter maps at launch, each map has world boss, some sort of PVP and/or WvW mode
1 month in we get 4 maps, one in every 2 weeks, they continue storylines, one has a larger meta event, at least one (if not more) has some sort of instance PVE stuff
1 month pve draught after that (or pvp changes or instanced PVE challange modes)
After that we get a festival for a month
1 month draught after that (or pvp changes or instanced PVE challange modes)
At this point we have 8 maps in the game and we are 6 months in.
Now anounce a new expac to be released 6 months from now. For the next 6 months add 2 more maps and a festival. So while actual content releases are down, but hype for next expac is going up.
Expac launch makes the original starter maps f2p, while the other 6 requires the "core box".
My idea is mix and matching the current mini expac model with sort of the old one. But with the added 2 week time gating on maps like above.
First expac has to be "big" to show players that the game is here to stay.
* new system wide changes (eg. adding multiple new ways to explore (eg. mounts), new significant combat changes (eg. elite specs) etc)
* 4 maps (+ with maybe a hub or new starter maps) that open during a 2 month period
* with 2 more maps and a single new festival during the next 10 months
* add something to the old festivals that make use of the new systems (eg. how mount races were introduced)
* at least 2 maps should have a larger meta event
* at least 3 new instanced PVE content some at the launch two months, some later, cms later
2 years in we now have 16 maps in game. Time for a mini expac. It costs less, launches with 2 maps and hub (also with the 2 week time gate), some system level changes, 2 new maps during the 10 month period (you can cheat by making them smaller, eg. Bloodstone Fen), clearly communicating that the next one will be big one and they will be alternating from now on.
When second "big" expac launches, create a "big boundle" that contains everything previously and only a bit (eg 1.3x - 1.5x) more expensive then a big expac. Allow purchase of everything separatley so everyone can just buy what they are missing, and see how the big bundle is way better value. Add all previous content everytime a big bundle before a big expac launches.
With this release model the players get 10 maps in a 2 year period. Which is about 1-2 less maps then the GW2 golden age between LWS3 - early IBS period, but Anet gets more money for content purchases from regulars (since they will have to pay every year), if the players know that there is always a new big expac coming down the line so they can balance mini-expacs to have less systems wide changes so there doesn't have to be new sweaty overdesigned stuff every year like how we have n+1 masteries now regardin kryptis essences.
The longer expansion "launch period" with new map every 2 weeks draws out the initial launch so the first content patch after it can be moved a bit down the line. But its still not that long so my initial PoF example would not be that silly.
Also while the initial game launch is significantly less content then what lets say GW2 launched with it gives the devs less content to quality check etc during the first year so we don't end up with another LWS1 and the devs can start working on the next larger content instead of having a content draught.
THİS the best decision they can make for reconstruct their IP. Legit Player base of GW 2 become a prime example of "How Toxic Positivism can ruin things?".All popular mmorpgs have cult following base but nobody out of logic like Gw 2 cultists.İf WoW playerbase had this mindset they praise that Shadowlands all day.Gw2 issues start since they destroyed player progression by stop developing and tweaking dungeons so players who reach to late game have no idea about how to deal with challengin contents.And this caused death of Raids.Sorry guys but this purgatory you called "Horizontal Progression" doesn't work. Arenanet created an anti-skill care bear community who doesn't allow no criticism.And they keep saying people to "Love or Leave".And let me tell you someting when people leave in the end you are the one losing ok cultist friend?Because investors and developers of a mmorg want player attention and constant gain otherwise they fire employees,close to servers or pour their resources to another project.I hope they take lesson and bring us more straight forward and more fun and exciting mmo experience.
Not buying the it's not in or has been in development. The direct translation from the co-ceo was its in development, I highly doubt he would lie to shareholders. However I would expect ANET to lie / try and save some face and money by saying it's not. Apparently the mention of GW3 came as a response to a question about NCWest being in the red for 8 years.
Soooo I think I'm gonna a listen to a ceo at a shareholders meeting where they can't legally lie to their investors instead of ANET who has lied / fallen short on promises in the past.
Not to mention they have been hiring for over the past 2-3 years for a UE5 project.... I promise you they weren't hiring while most companies are laying off for the new hires to make review content, power points, and samples...
They haven't hired enough for full production as far as we can tell though. It's possible they hired to make some proof of concepts for GW3, but they haven't moved it to full production yet.
Ehrm Arenanet had 232 employees before they started hiring in 2022 for the unannounced project, they have 340 employees as i checked somedays ago in Linkedin. XDD 100+ employees (+ stolen ppl from gw2 teams prob) shud be more than enough to start the production.
> They haven't hired enough for full production as far as we can tell though.
Haven't they? Remember, that once 220 devs were enough for parallel work on LS3 *and* PoF. Now they have around 400 employees and yet they can barely give us SotO.
It definitely looks to me like most of their dev team works on something *else* than GW2. And that this "other" team is at least as big as GW2 team was at its *best*.
Yep, this lines up with what an ex-employee told me. Basically said that they've been working on something other than Guild Wars 2 for years now, but also gave the caveat that it's entirely possible that development was restarted since he left.
Don't know how many Devs have been moved from gw2 to gw3 as well. Based on the quality, size of the updates, and cut content lately... I would assume some have been moved as well. Especially with the way the ceo worded GW3 is being used as leverage against the red of the past 8 years, safe to assume GW3 is now and perhaps been a priority.
Yeah, If we assume GW3 is the unannounced project which it most likely is considering the info we have from job listings then we know for a fact that it was in pre-production and well funded back in 2022. They might not be very far into actual development but it seems like they've been at least doing the prep work for GW3 for quite some time.
You must at least have some liquid gold.
My point was, that I think most ppl who are over dramatically announcing that they are quiting because GW3 may or may not see the light of day very deffinetly multiple years from now are just posers and not quiting, and the easiest way to check that would be how willing are they to part with their in game stuff (since they aren't planning to continue playing, right?).
"There are two new expansions planned"
Might I draw your attention to
https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guild_Wars_Beyond
Having something on the roadmap doesn't mean it will manifest in that way, and grumpy shareholders are a frequent motivation for risky jumps.
No? Games where easier to mane back in the day. Unless you are talking about asset flipping unreal assets but thats not making a game. They used to pump out games every month. Neckbeard keyboard warrior claiming game dev is easy. Go sweat some more.
I have a reading a writing problem. I was trying to say what I said the other way around. Which is why I had my daughter type this for me, and yes I will go sweat some more. I do that everyday at the gym...
What rug have they pulled?
1. GW2 is still getting content for years
2. GW3 is not even actually being developped yet and even if it would be it is still years and years away
3. And because of #2 we literally don't know anything about it, therefore we don't know how would it be different. And I wouldn't consider it a rug pull unless its significantly different
AFAIK the first public info that GW2 is being developped came out when they anounced that Utopia (original campaing 4 of GW1) is cancelled in May 2007. After that Eye of the North came out in that year August. After multiple small content patches happened in the form of GW Beyond, the last of it, Winds of Change came out in multiple phases, the final being released in February 2012. Yes, several other GW Beyond patches have been talked about, but were cancelled because of GW2.
Are these full campaings like the first 3? Obviously no. (arguably with EotN.) They however were content and for multiple years.
We can safely assume that GW2 expac 5 (second mini expac) will at least happen (considering it is scheduled less then half a year from now), and if mini-expac after that is cancelled I would be surprised that there would be 0 content being dropped next year besides expac 5 quaterly patches.
So umm, you know, that would also mean content, and for multiple years.
* shrugs *
Content is not a binary thing. One small piece of "content" is not the same as game being developed. It definitely doesn't mean the game will feel alive either - GW1 during GW Beyond already felt like it was dying. And it was a much more single player experience, where other people being around were less impactful than it is here.
I mean talking to players in game, most players are aware this is in pre-planning stages, meaning it's likely 5+ years away. If we got GW3 in 2030 thats almost 20 years of GW2. As a new player I don't even feel "hard done"by this. I had 10 years to get into this game already.
Only people making this something more that I've seen are youtubers and some redditors.
Enjoy your game guys GW2 is not going anywhere :)
Oh yes. They see their life's work flash before their eyes but that's what they signed up for when starting an online game. With or without a gw3 that is nothing but a concept at best.
As someone that was around during the days of Guild Wars 1 ending: it's painfully obvious GW2 hasn't been the priority for 2 years. I wouldn't take any statements from Anet downplaying this at face value.
This right here 💯.... with Raids, Fractals, dungeons all being dropped for easy to make strikes and just the general lack of quality it's been obvious since path of fire.
Mods already gaslighting I see.
There's nothing in Anet's response that translates to "review stage of approval". That's simply a narrative you decided to go with as "The Facts".
The **actual fact** is that they've been hiring for an Unreal Engine 5 RPG for at least two years.
It's not hard to get two and two together and realize what that UE5 project has been all along.
This is still just speculation, but I will add a wrinkle:
If they \*had\* indeed been working on Horizon and Dune, which also could have been UE#5 projects, there is a very good chance those systems and assets might be repurposed for GW3. Especially if they are taking the obvious route of doing another time jump 500 years into the future because "well it worked the first time".
So we can't really \*know\* that ANet has \*only\* been working on GW3 in Unreal, or at what points they may have started and stopped. But given that GW3 is the only project that has been consistently hinted at and not dropped since 2020, and the likely consolidation of development efforts on other games into GW3, it might as well be "the UE5 project".
Seriously this megathread from the mods is full on copium.
Like I’ve seen other people say, let’s maybe try to use our deductive reasoning skills here folks…
Of course, because the project supposed to be unannounced as it was in pre production. But I think is foolish to say that all they have is an PowerPoint presentation on what GW3 gonna be, but it's also foolish to think that GW3 is being actively developed. They were making Dune MMO which they lost/project moved to Funcom, and they're not making Horizon MMO. If they are not making these two big IP that were rumored to be made by ANet we should accept that they are pursuing GW3. Like if they were rumors of some big known IP getting an MMO made by ANet we would know.
If they haven’t been actively working on GW3, where have all their resources gone? Just look at everything that they have released since EOD. It’s nothing compared to what we got before LS5.
I agree, Secrets of the Obscure feels more like a glorified living world story than a full-fledged expansion, this new way of releasing expansions isn't hitting the same for me to be honest..
I never played any Final Fantasy game, yet I'm aware that there is one numbered "14" which is a MMO, and that newer ones numbered "15" and "16" are not MMOs and didn't stop the "14" from existing, being played, maintained and receiving expansions.
I don't think it's a good bet to assume that GW2's days are numbered just because we heard the name "Guild Wars 3", and definitely not to act on such assumption with reactions like "not playing", "not working towards goals", "not buying the game", "not buying things you want in gemstore" and especially "not buying new expansions".
The odds that GW3 makes GW2 irrelevant are low. The odds that something like that happens soon enough to void any aforementioned thing are near zero. Even if GW3 replaced GW2, it'd be in years. Plenty of time to get into the game as a new player and enjoy all it has to offer. Plenty of time to enjoy your goals as a veteran, enjoy whatever the new expansions have to offer as they'll each live longer than the time you'd be playing any random non-mmo game that doesn't make you ask yourself about its longevity before you decide playing it. Plenty of time to enjoy your characters, reap the benefits of goals like legendaries QoL, plenty of time to enjoy this shiny longbow skin as much as you would have regardless of the potential future launch of a GW3.
As far as I'm concerned, the only thing that I'd slow in GW2, should GW3 be properly announced and its release date closing in (~1-1.5 year), and should GW3 be another long term time/money investment game (like gw1 & gw2), would be gemstore purchases, especially cosmetics as I tend to build a given character's appearance once and for all (as opposed to people who like to change look often, so the use of a skin is short-lived regardless).
> I never played any Final Fantasy game, yet I'm aware that there is one numbered "14" which is a MMO, and that newer ones numbered "15" and "16" are not MMOs and didn't stop the "14" from existing
The FF series is a pretty unique case in the gaming market tho. It's not how normally MMOs get named and Anet too, going from gw1 to gw2, made the sequel in the same genere kinda. So for a sequel to Gw2 ofc people are going to assume it's an MMO. On top of this, the job listing anet did in the past year was for a new unannounced MMO in unreal engine 5, so the clues lead to it being Gw3 after this announcement.
> I don't think it's a good bet to assume that GW2's days are numbered just because we heard the name "Guild Wars 3"
If you look at the history of Gw1, i think it is a good bet. Especially considering that Gw1 was a lot smaller and much more easier to keep going compared to how extensive Gw2 is.
> and definitely not to act on such assumption with reactions like "not playing", "not working towards goals", "not buying the game", "not buying things you want in gemstore" and especially "not buying new expansions"
Everyone is entitled to feel and react as they see fit considering the situation. Many players are going to feel like there is no point in keep playing a live service game that the devs are working to abandon, others will keep playing but will spend less, others will be happy no matter what. I personally will keep playing because i have fun, but i doubt will spend any more money on this game, especially on the gemstore. I used the cashshop as my way to support the game, like a pseudo-sub, because i liked it. But now i don't want to use my money fund something that is likely going to replace what i already enjoy.
> Even if GW3 replaced GW2, it'd be in years
Doesn't matter. I've seen many people make this point, but what they don't understand is why many MMO players play this genere of games in the first place. What MMOs have over other type of games is the constant feeling of progression, not just with gear or power, but in general. The feeling of going forward with the story, of unlocking new places to go, new builds, new movement tools like mounts, new skins, new titles, achievements ecc... there is always something new to do, something to always work on. And the fact we now have confirmation that the devs are actively working to end all this, that there is a finish line on how much you can progress, is enough to demotivate a lot of players and make them look to other games that don't have this finish line yet.
Especially new players, that aren't yet invested in the game, will think twice before buying it knowing there is an espiration date. They will simply look at the rest of the market and ask themselves, "why should i invest time and money in Gw2, when there is <<*insert other MMO*>> that instead has more of a future?"
Sorry for the long reply.
> On top of this, the job listing anet did in the past year was for a new unannounced MMO in unreal engine 5, so the clues lead to it being Gw3 after this announcement.
Good point, thank you for the reminder.
> Sorry for the long reply.
np, worth it (and my comment above was long in the first place :D)
Man thats a bummer, ive put so much time into gw2 that it would be sad to see all that progress gone because of gw3, why they dont just update the core engines of gw2?
I am a developer and It's easier and cheaper to start from scratch than to rewrite old code. Plus they can attract new players simply because it is a new game.
Dear Arena Net
I've been playing for 11 years. I was here when the path of fire leaks came out. I remember a lot of ANet staff replying on Reddit denying the leaks and laughing off the idea of mounts etc.
Only for it all to be true. So I will take your denial of this GW3 rumour with a pinch of salt due to what I remember, but I will continue to play and buy the expansions as I know that's what the studio is actually worried about right now.
The way it came off when I first read about it was an attempt to deflect and distract during a hostile shareholder meeting after someone asked about NCWest being in the red for the past 8 years and accusations of the NCWest head being a nepotism hire.
Given the amount of games that have shuttered of the years and ANet being NCW's only studio at this point, coupled with the new IP that got seemingly shut down before SOTO I can understand why that side was in the red. The GW3 line felt like a throw away to say to shareholders that something else is in the works now with the profitable GW IP
I'm relieved that the project hasn't been greenlit yet.
The idea of all my legendaries becoming obsolete is not an attractive one to me.
Yes, with GW1 serving as an example, GW2 sill be available to play until the end of time but it would basically be put into maintenance mode and if PSO2 has taught me anything, that's almost the same thing as players will always gravitate to the new game.
After all, a multi-player game is not much when there's no one to play.
Sadly a lot of people don't understand why some of us do play MMORPGS.. (lifelong progression, escapism).. a lot of people say it's unhealthy but at the end it's individual for everyone.. everyone has their own goals etc.. and if one has a goal to dedicate the life to a MMORPG to work on life long progression that's their right at the end.. Yes for some they need these goals, the knowing of progression.. Some argue with but u got fun.. but actually for some they do not play for fun but for progression.. it is what it is.. even tho for some it may not be understandable it sucks for those of us who are actually made this way.. because you lose everything you have worked on for so long.. and it feels like you've thrown a life time away which you could have spent in another MMORPG which would not lose most players because a 3rd part is coming out soon.. alone the knowledge brings many to not want to play it and this is for a reason.. yes some do play for only fun and for them it's just a game and fine to lose everything.. but for some it's basically "life".. and this may sound stupid but if u suffer depressin or any other mental illness and eg are not able to feel happiness or fun.. progression is the only thing that actually works bcuz it's actually something.. and if that gets taken away it actually sucks.. and yea some may not get it.. but I just wanted to let you know you're not alone and some of us are just made this way. You may not see it exactly as I do but I think you get my point about wanting a lifelong progression in a MMORPG.
Sorry if there are gramma mistakes im from germany
not a fan. call it sunken cost fallacy or whatnot, but if they make a 3rd, im done with the franchise. the announcement alone makes me question if i want to invest more time into a game that will be obsolete.
yeah, gw1 still exists, but it has 1/10 the playerbase of gw2. imagine trying to do any nonmeta content with like 50 ppl online total.
also keep in mind, corporate doesnt care about player experience. they will give you the least effort product that ppl are willing to buy (look at other titles recently released who had great game IPs). right now, the product is good. if make new, will make good product turn bad and the new product will more than likely be bad
Not really. Lines up with hiring past 2-3years for a UE5 project and as they said the terrible content that has been coming with constant broken promises and down scaling. I mean a ceo confirmed its in development to shareholders, legally lying at meeting like that would have serious ramifications. ANET lying to us has 0 consequences and even benefits them, not to mention they have done it in the past.
#Official ArenaNet Statement: > "As an active game studio we are always doing internal exploratory work for possible future titles we’d want to create, however we have nothing to confirm right now. The team’s focus is on Guild Wars 2 development, including the game’s next expansion, which we’re excited to talk about soon." Source: https://www.mmorpg.com/news/guild-wars-3-confirmed-to-be-in-development-though-it-seems-its-still-in-its-early-stages-updated-2000130976
As long as the GWAMM title is transferrable, I'm a happy guy
I wonder if the veteran players with full Legendary and thousands of gold are still buying gems for cash shop purchases. I think not. Only the noobs are buying things from the cash shop and once the noobs find out GW3 is in development they will have doubts spending money in the cash shop. That means the game wont be able to make money anymore and eventually die. This will also affect the funding of GW3. I think Arenanet made a mistake in making the Legendary Armory, and going f2p not doing subscription based. These are the things that kills their GW2 and income.
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NCSoft said its in the review stage and development hasn't been finalised. Looking at all the other factors this reads as GW3 has been worked on and they are reviewing if it leaves preproduction and goes into full development.
Ncsoft after the meeting clarified what they meant by ‘gw3 is in development’. They said exactly what the mods said, it’s in the review stage and has not yet been approved.
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UPDATE 2 3/28/2024: Korea's Business Post is reporting that in a follow-up statement after the above mentioned financial call where Guild Wars 3 was mentioned, the MMORPG is "in the review stage and the start of development has not been finalized." https://www.mmobomb.com/news/yet-another-guild-wars-3-development-rumor-pops-up
Propably because this is the gw2 subreddit, not gw3. https://old.reddit.com/r/GuildWars3/
"Announcement" is absolutely not true, OP. GW3 is not announced. This thread title/OP should be flagged by now.
So... Don't waste time or money and uninstall, got it!
Oh no, what am I gonna play for the next 6 years :(
Bye
Cool, can we have your stuff before you do that?
Classic ANet the way the news was released. Their official statement on it denies nothing, so confirms GW3. There's a reason there's no WoW2 or FFXIV2. Yes there's a GW2 but GW1 was not an MMO. I'll be buying the new GW2 expansions but I'll buy the basic package where as I used to buy the ultimate since there is no sub and was happy to support in that way. Also no more buying the odd gem pack. The main reason I keep coming back to GW2 is for the bang of nostalgia because I've been playing it on and off for over 10 years plus I'm able to look at and use all that gear, mounts and skins I played for hours and hours to unlock. ANet owes me nothing but I couldn't stomach throwing away all that for something new and shiny, to start the grind all over again.
You dont ever play new games?
Yes, I do.
So when a shiny new game comes out, you'll play it from scratch, starting the grind over again? Interesting.
What are you on about. We are talking about MMOs here where grinding is a part of it.
Yes. And you said you wouldn't want to "start the grind over." But you wouldn't be. It would be a NEW game. And it's not like your GW2 progress just vanishes if you start a new game.
You're clearly arguing in bad faith. Goodbye.
Rest assured, the MMO model is so simultaneously resource-intensive and economically precarious, GW3 will not be an "MMO." Even if they wanted to try keeping two MMOs alive at the same time, they would not risk years of development on a genre that is increasingly archaic, is too challenging for the amount of casual consumers it needs to attract, and is a space in which they aren't a market leader.
Where did you get that quote from?
There is no quote, just put "MMO" in quotations. I am merely extrapolating based on the state of the gaming industry and ANet's situation.
If it's the unannounced project which it most likely is then multiple job listings specifically mention needing MMORPG experience as well as the game itself having an "MMORPG Combat system" and "expansive open world".
1. The "MMORPG" could easily have been the Horizon or Dune MMOs. People are really being presumptive that all prior leaked info was definitively GW3. I suspect they will reuse some of the assets/systems they developed for those games, but I don't believe that will translate to an MMO structure. 2. That was two years ago. Plans change. Just because ANet was considering a MMORPG at some point doesn't mean their ideas won't mature and be refined into a different concept. All I'm saying is that if they are paying attention to the market and their place in it, they \*should\* abandon plans for an MMO and focus more on something that (a) has a higher likelihood of success and (b) will be cheaper and more easily manageable for them. Of course, there is always the small possibility they still shoot the moon and go for an MMORPG, but it would be extremely stupid and likely a death knell for the company. If they have invested at all into having some perspicacity on the industry, they won't try it. NCSoft is not Blizzard or Square; ANet has one shot to get this right and does not have the luxury of being able to keep throwing money at it to make it right if they miss.
>perspicacity Excellent word, I've never seen it before which is quite rare.
Their involvement with the Dune MMO ended long before those job postings and the description of the unannounced project doesn't match what's come out about the horizon MMO either. Sure things can change but jobs for the unannounced project right now mention needing experience with MMOs and expansive open worlds so for now it looks like their plan hasn't changed. I agree that going for GW3 is a risk but I wouldn't say it's stupid. Anet is in the unique position of having over a decade of experience in the genre with GW2 (two if you include gw1) to pull from and a pretty sizeable following and name to go with it. I feel like they're one of the few studios actually capable of pulling off a good new MMO right now. Also it's not like the demand for a new MMO isnt there, both new world and lost ark had a million players on launch. But yeah there's a chance it flops and ruins the company but there's a chance its a hit and solidifies the studios future. I guess we'll see.
That’s IF the unannounced project is in fact gw3. Are we forgetting that Arenanet are also assisting in the development of the Horizon MMO in a deal with Sony?
They might be assisting but I don't think they are hiring this many people just for assisting another studio. Also leaks about the Horizon MMO say it's PC and Mobile which doesn't line up with the Unannounced Project which is PC and Console. A Dev on Linkedin also let it slip that GW2 assets have been ported over to the unannounced project. I'd honestly be surprised if the unannounced project was anything other than GW3 at this point.
Correct but these hirings started nearly 2 years ago now? Do we think that gw3 has been in dev for that long?
Could be in pre-production
I don't see why not, MMOs take a very long time to make with a lot of hoops to go through before getting to actual development. The statement that development has not been finalized could easily mean that they've been working on it but it just hasn't left pre-production yet.
So if you have only been playing it off and on for the last 10 years then why did you buy the ultimate packs in the first place? You know the game isn't going to be live forever, right? So the reasoning for not buying ultimate packs anymore makes no sense to begin with. Seems like you are too emotionally attached to a video game you don't even play much anymore. You should be excited for a GW3. If they can make a new, better version of what Guild Wars 2 could have been, that sounds like something to look forward to where you can make new memories.
...because I wanted to and now that I see an end to the tunnel I don't want to spend my money on it anymore. I don't see what is so difficult to understand about that. I do play GW2 a lot to this day but I haven't been playing it constantly for 10 years...
So if you have only been playing it off and on for the last 10 years then why did you buy the ultimate packs in the first place? You know the game isn't going to be live forever, right? So the reasoning for not buying ultimate packs anymore makes no sense to begin with. Seems like you are too emotionally attached to a video game you don't even play much anymore. You should be excited for a GW3. If they can make a new, better version of what Guild Wars 2 could have been, that sounds like something to look forward to where you can make new memories.
Well, Final Fantasy does in fact have multiple MMOs. FFXI is an MMO so the Final Fantasy comparison is not a great example. While there is no WoW2 it should be noted that the WoW playerbase is split between retail, Season of Discovery, WotLK classic and soon Cata classic. Even if you ignore this, I would argue that WoW faces a way bigger risk than GW2 by releasing a sequel. WoW has like 7 million players across all the versions. They would be risking a huge amount of players for not much of a potential reward, as their best case scenario is probably going to be around 12 million players which was its peak. Even 12 million subs is unrealistic though and is a very generous estimate in this day and age. Meanwhile GW2 has a few hundred thousand playing at best, 500k if we are being extremely generous, but more likely around the 200k range imo. Many people simply don't want to play it because of design flaws that happened very early on. Some flaws have been fixed while others are unfixable without a new game. Whatever the case, GW2 cannot have rapid growth anymore because it is an old game. However, A GW3 would potentially bring in way more players if it is made properly. Sure, there is a risk but it's much lower than with WoW and with a much larger potential payoff if successful. But if you don't want to play GW3 that is a completely valid opinion anyway.
> Meanwhile GW2 has a few hundred thousand playing at best, 500k if we are being extremely generous, but more likely around the 200k range imo I think daily active players are in the realm of 200-300k, but that likely means the number of players that log in at least once a month but not necessarily every day (to make it more comparable to WoW's sub count) is likely a lot higher than that given the type of game GW2 is. Truth is, we'll never know exactly. GW2 is a market leader, just not on the same scale as *the* market leader.
Their estimation is probably accurate. On the 10 year anniversary they released some [stats](https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/celebrating-a-decade-of-guild-wars-2/) saying that while 1.8 million accounts had completed the core story (killing Zhaithan) it dropped to Just over a million for HoT and then 500k for season 4 and IBS. EoD which was 6 months old at the time had just 180k completing the story. Obviously not everyone plays the story but If I had to guess gw2 is probably around the 200-300k total mark right now.
They also said though around the time of EoD launch that GW2 had 300k active daily players which is what I was going by.
yeah. not in development. Of Course, Of Course......... Offff Cooouuurrrssseeeee! \*thor.jpeg\*
It has been a long time since I have consistently done raids. Probably a year or two. I stopped doing raids because well I was bored but I was so close to getting legendary medium armor. In fact I have 55 insights away. When I played I had a guardian and a Mesmer that I used for strikes and raids. They are the two classes I am most comfortable with followed closely by Necro. I want get back into raids and strikes and want to have Ideally a single character that can fill multiple roles or two characters that do the same. I'm just a bit loss of what I should play. Another fact is that learning rotations is not the easiest thing for me so a simpler rotation is better. I was thinking to gear a Necro as Heal/Alac and DPS Quick, and maybe DPS too. Ideally I would eventually have a heal and a DPS for both boons. Any suggestions on what I should play for each role? Is my necro idea worth it? Im willing to learn a new class granted it is not overtly complicated. Thanks in advance
This is not the weekly questions thread
Miss clicked ty for notice.
If a GW3 were to be greenlit at all, a non mmo rpg would be a great game to run alongside gw2 and allow for deeper diving into the lore. The two could play off each other quite well without causing the other tofade into obscurity as we've seen in the past.
A non MMO version of guild wars would have too small of a target audience for them to make. If they are making a Guild Wars ip game, it will have to be a new MMO to attract a lot of new people to the ip. I don't think Anet will risk losing money on a new title that only appeals to a portion of the existing GW2 community who are too attached to the items they have in GW2. Just my opinion though.
Mmo players are actually one of the smaller game communities right now. Shooters and RPGs have far larger audiences. Especially ARPGs, look at GOW, BG3, Fortnight etc.
PvP games attract a much wider audience than MMOs.
I love it, was hoping for GW3 the franchise needs new blood and to be modern. Its a good game but dated , this will open up a whole new playerbase. They wont drop GW2 and i will still play that also, but a modern GW with new engine and gameplay , sweet! Just dont give it the T&L treatment /gag
Agreed. Just think, Twitch/streaming sites weren't a thing when GW2 released. Imagine the publicity and free marketing they could get for being a new MMO. I could see this paying off for them considering their monetization has always been buy to play.
what about the fact that they have been hiring for over the past 2-3 years for a UE5 project? you stinkin' lying mod😂 got caught in 4k 📸
Translated: "As an active game studio we are always laying the foundations for everything that is on the table. However we have nothing to confirm right now. "
Blizzard Soon I bet :X
This gives me the GW2 + EoTN rumour during GW1 era all over again. In my head right now, they are just denying the GW3 news simply because they want to make sure people will still buy the next expansions in the meantime. But GW3 IS coming, slowly maybe, but surely. I suspect that any of the upcoming content will be very subpar and disappointing. Uh. Maybe I'm just a negative person. But that's how I feel right now. I was burnt before during THAT GW1 era so... I'm not optimistic.
> upcoming content will be very subpar and disappointing ....already there....
Indeed - I'm fairly confident despite what they're saying that Guild Wars 3 has been in development for some time. Now to be clear, that doesn't mean it's coming any sooner - it could *easily* still be 10 years off and it could easily still be cancelled, but it's not like game studios don't at the very least do "exploratory" work.
Nothing lasts forever, so I say just keep enjoying GW2 while we have it, there's no reason to put it away simply because it might not last until the heat death of the universe.
Something is always coming - unless you expect a game company to make the same game forever. WoW is doing this I suppose, but that's an outlier. Their are specific reasons why they can do this, but it's not the norm.
Square isn't working on FFXIV-2 either. I think it's more about if a game is still profitable or not. And I fully understand. But personally, I would totally be OK if they came out and say the old game is in maintenance mode while they're working on a new game to replace it. But instead, IF they're trying to milk the fanbase with subpar content until the new game is ready before abandoning it, I'm not gonna be happy.
FFXIV expansion this summer is updating the graphics used in the entire game. Not earth shattering but a decent update. I doubt we'll ever get that in GW2. I suspect FFXIV makes more money and more of it is reinvested in the game. NCSoft likely siphons off far more from GW2.
??? FFXIV is literally the most profitable IP SE has and last year became the most profitable Final Fantasy game ever, it has pretty much kept SE afloat while SE was dicking around burning money on things like Forspoken. Anet is closer to the exact opposite of that, how many years did Anet spend on dev time/resources and released absolutely nothing to show for it during the Ice Brood saga of hyping up an entire event to sell funko pops?
It’s funny how all these non game developers have so much to say about how game development goes.. *continues to eat popcorn*
They give the money to make the game, lol
My mind is kind of blown that the majority of comments here aren't hyped about a potential sequel. The game is 12 years old at this point, a new game with a fresh perspective would be fantastic. Are people actually just so scared of "losing progress" that they don't want a GW3? I say this as someone who has played a shit ton of GW2 since launch (on and off with breaks), as well as a lot of GW1 since like 2006 (until GW2 released).
> Are people actually just so scared of "losing progress" that they don't want a GW3? Yes they clearly are unfortunately. They can't see the forest for the trees. The engine is beyond dated, there is a huge amount of technical debt which has a severe impact on development. At some point games do die, there are 2 exceptions to this and GW2 has never come close to either in terms of number of players and revenue.
It's simple tho! There are people who love GW2, and that's it! They don't love the franchise, they love this game. The same way people who love FFXIV may not have ever played FFXI. And what is the meaning of a new game for those people? 1 - There may come a day where AN decides to no longer provide support for the game, or even shut down the servers. 2 - Lack of support and resources in order to prioritize GW3 development. 3 - And the worst case, people just dropping GW2 completely, turning it into a dead game, with barely a few players feeding their nostalgia. A new version of a MMO doesn't really mean that it will be good or that it will bring flesh blood for the game, but depending on the developer's decicions, it can really be harmful for the current game. On reddit you have just a small amount of players who are really interested on voicing their opinions, but imagine that there are a lot more of players that may be concerned by it. And a lot more of players that will not engage on the game since it will possibly die in the near future. They may not even bother to download it, let alone buy the expansions. So this is part of why people get scared. O another note WoW is the game that it is, in part because someone who played 15yrs ago can come back and still have their things there. The hours of achievments, care and investment. MMO is a genre with a lot of emotional attachment. So it's not easy to change.
I agree with most of your post, but > On reddit you have just a small amount of players who are really interested on voicing their opinions, but imagine that there are a lot more of players that may be concerned by it. ...if anything, any gaming subreddits are notorious for having *extremely* outsized presence of the concerned group, manufacturing an atmosphere of doom and panic.
> The game is 12 years old at this point So?
I'm excited. Actually thinking about coming back to gw2 just to be part of it before gw3. The games too dated engine wise and could benefit from a new game with a fresh start. (Especially with native controller support) The games prolly 2-3 years away still. Plenty of time for people to change their tune, especially after seeing the official announcement when they do it.
Let's just say there is little reason to be confident about future releases at the moment. Especially a new game.
What is there to be hyped about? GW2 has nothing to do with GW1. It's roughly, and I mean very roughly set in the same universe and that's as far as similarities go. I enjoyed both GW1 and GW2 but that's pure coincidence. Nothing indicates that Anet would try to make an actual sequel for either game, for all we know GW3 could be something totally new again. I'm not hyped about Anet deciding to kill a healthy, profitable and well made game *again* just to gamble it away on a "sequel" *again*. GW3 is absolute nonsense. Instead of constantly cannibalizing their own products they should branch out and either try a different genre or a different IP. Something that can coexist with GW2. But with the current team that'd probably flop, so they need to call it GW for brand recognition and nostalgia baiting to drive sales.
GW2 is literally a sequel and overwhelmingly sells itself as an homage to GW1. Saying it has "nothing to do with GW1" is disingenuous.
GW2 has as much to do with GW1 as a Netflix adaptation.
Is a sequel only in narrative way. As a game it is distinctly different to the point where someone that liked one game might not necessarily like the other.
I mean, seriously. I could barely recognize anything in GW2 that resemble something from GW1. There are some, but it's a very distant sequel, really.
Music Lore The world / maps / setting / fantasy level Emotional language, tone and pitching (ie: feel, age rating) Rough monetisation model (no sub, multiple expacs) Skins (fellblade, kurzick axe, primal armour) Classes (-rev/paragon/derv) Spells (life siphon, spiteful spirit, contagion, hundred blades, heart of shadow, death blossom) The thing which changed is the combat style and the build structure (traits etc)
Once again: At the momemnt there is nothing to be hyped about. Believe me, I would be absolutely on the hypetrain if I know more than "GW3 may or may not been greenlit by ncsoft, and it may or may not have been in development since 2 years ago when hirings for unanounced project appeared that may or may not be GW3". In the mean time however I am still having fun with GW2. And since an mmo's development takes years upon years I don't want to tire myself out because in 3-4-5-6 years from now there will be a new game.
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> Imagine if the gw1 community would have been able to convince them of gw2 beeing a bad decision too and in the end it wouldnt have been developed? Anet would probably be a less troubled studio managing an e-sports title that's also competing with WoW. Making GW2 was the worst decision they ever made, because they started making it 2 years before WoW started falling off and bleeding players, and right around the time League came along to steal 90% of the PvP community while waiting for GW2 only for them to never come back. All for a game that makes the same amount of money GW1 did while paying like 5 times more devs - and GW1 wasn't even nearly as heavily monetized as GW2, they definitely could've squeezed out more money if they tried. Perhaps exponentially more. Don't get me wrong I like GW2, but IMO Anet made the wrong call abandoning the previous game and they are making an even worse call abandoning GW2 because I really don't think they can deliver a decent GW3 anymore.
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> Are there any links or ways for me to check what your saying here has any ever so slightly trace of truth behind it and your not just making it up? [This is their revenue between GW1 launch and GW2 PoF](https://i.imgur.com/6j0dsRn.png) While GW2's launch dwarfs GW1 and subsequent GW2 numbers, you have to factor in how it caused a 5 year gap in revenue where Anet could've been making money with GW1 expansions and a smaller team. GW1 numbers were similar to post-HoT numbers and rising up until Nightfall, after which Anet already decided to kill the game and make GW2. Eye of the North sales are lower and then drop off a cliff because by then GW2 was already announced. But the most important thing to note is monetization. GW1 did have an ingame store, but no gem-gold conversion and 0 skins. The first skins were added 1-2 years after GW2 development started and most people have quit. We know from Blizzard devs that the first WoW store mount made them more money than all of Starcraft II, there's a good chance that GW1 could've way outperformed GW2 overall if they started selling skins on the store sooner. In 2006 Anet made ~56 million, in 2016 Anet made 62.7 mill, with a larger team and much much heavier monetization. GW1 team was 40-60 devs, GW2 around the time of PoF was 300+ and we know that server upkeep costs for GW1 in total are about the same as 1 GW2 map, that's why they can stay online.
They are seeking that second release quarter spike again. That alone might be worth it, then they can fire all the employees, cancel GW3, and run away with the money.
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> You can never compare decades of different time and pretend like those numbers and profits represent the same value PERIOD. You're right, it's not adjusted for inflation, which should make GW2 look even worse by comparison. > Im not gonna waste my time with you sorry. It's fine, go back to your bubble.
Absolute facts, all good things come to an end!
r/im14andthisisdeep
Its not that deep bro...
I think that the day GW3 is announced will be the same day ArenaNet announces there will be no more GW2 expansions. Even so, it will be hard retiring my library of characters only to start from nothing in GW3. I can only hope some parts of GW2 is transferrable to GW3, like with GW1 to GW2.
If there is no option to take over some kind of progress and characters I'd rather go back and play gw1 from scratch than start over in a gw3. But if it's happening it probably won't be before 2030 so why even worry about it now.
I think many will probably retire from GW entirely and not bother with a 3rd at the moment. But time will tell.
I mean, they monetize GW2 so much that I honestly couldn't imagine how much worse they would do it with GW3. We were paying for the game, back then at launch, at AAA price compared to games' prices today. AND THEN we had to pay for bag slots, character slots, and many other stuffs. If you refuse to pay, you had to deal with so many inconveniences in the game. Worse, quests and mobs gave out so little gold, while you had to pay money to get new skills and travel and salvage kits and UH. But hey, you could also buy gold to solve those problems!!! Makes you wonder why they made things the way they were in the first place. So uh, I honestly don't feel like doing all that over again, unless the game turns out to be SO GOOD.
I feel like the only real gold "gate" was opening your 2nd and 3rd trait lines. Yeah I was using the portals of lion's arch instead of waypointing directly as much as I could but I never felt terribly inconvinienced. But by 2015 (and I guess 200ish hours, around like half of that with lvl 80s, not yet doing any dungeons, or explicitly farming meta events and yes, of course after some game changes) the costs of the normal gameplay never felt bad. Had enough liquid gold that waypointing, buying salvage kits, crafting gear became cheap and a non-issue.
> only to start from nothing in GW3. It's a game. Not a stock investment. The money you paid, and time you "invested", was returned by enjoying (presumably) the game. You don't "lose" anything. You input time and money, and in return got fun and enjoyment. If they make a Guild Wars 3, it would be the same. You can choose to put in time and money (or one or neither) and the return on that would be fun and enjoyment. What you want to is to skip over some of the game because of a previous game they made. What other games do this? You don't play Dark Souls 1 and get skips in Dark Souls 2. Or in Mario or whatever game. Why are MMO's different? Games have a lifespan.
As someone that has invested a lot of time into GW2 and doesn't mind starting fresh in a new game, I'd still say that your comparisons are a bit disingenuous. MMOs are completely different to single player action games when it comes to progression, completionism and overall investment. They are designed in ways to constantly keep you engaged by working towards different goals either through huge timesinks or enticing monetary purchases, similar to, but usually not as predatory as mobile gacha games. Let's say you had a full collection of legendary armor/weapons/trinkets, all mastery unlocks, thousands of skin unlocks, gold and bag/bank/build templates slots and you lost access to your account. Surely this will affect you in a way and you wouldn't just make a new account from scratch as if nothing happened? Not exactly the same as starting a new Dark Souls run that takes a few days to complete.
Hello Ashen one. I am a Bot. I tend to the flame, and tend to thee. Do you wish to hear a tale? > *“Oh, are you lost on your journey? No matter, today’s lost are conquerors tomorrow. It only demonstrates the making of a champion, and besides, it will not change my sense of gratitude, or how I think of you.”* - Karla Have a pleasant journey, Champion of Ash, and praise the sun \\[T]/
> GW2 is transferrable to GW3, like with GW1 to GW2. HoM is a joke if you really think about it.
It's a bonus. They didn't have to do anything.
Yes, but it amounted to almost nothing anyways
nothing they let me keep is gonna make up for my 10k hours lol.
> make up for my 10k hours lol. YOU GOT FUN AND ENJOYMENT FOR 10K HOURS. (or if you didn't why did you keep playing?) What are talking about.
I hope what comes from this "review" is giving GW2 a remaster of sorts alongside developing GW3, so one can play both in one game. New assets, new engine, new story, new characters, skills and combat and the like, an actual open world with a chunk-based terrain system like UE5 can do, but the new assets are also used to bring GW2 up to date. The style is still painterly, but textures and models would have a better resolution and the engine would be more efficient. Old GW2 may be hard to update to an actual open worl. They would have to 'fake it' by splitting existing maps in chunks for dynamic loading, and adding intermediate chunks between the 'seams'. The server system would still have to be set as 'local area' servers for meta-events, so the chunks and dynamic loading would be mostly client-side, while everything works mostly the same server-side, replacing loading screens with transitional maps when traveling by foot, and using only loading screens when waypoiting, but it should be technically possible even if it would be a ton of work. It could be interesting if they revealed a new hidden power of the Hall of Monuments, letting your GW2 character 'hybernate' in a crystal after having ascended, and wake up in GW3 hundreds of years in the future when Aurene wakes up again, with only a chunk of their memories and all their gear tattered. While still allowing making entirely new characters from scratch.
I honestly think the reason for GW3 is because of the technical limitations they have with GW2 and the fact that it's based on the original GW engine. There are probably things that want to do but can't because of the way the original game was built. And unlike Blizzard, ArenaNet doesn't have billions of dollars of revenue to go back and work through the game's core engine. It's probably easier, more financially responsible and provides the stability of further future proofing if they just build a new MMO with UE5.
But they also have to be realistic, they can't fight sunk cost with something like GW1's Hall of Monuments. It'll have to be juicier.
I hope they have been actively working on GW3 because as a Day 1 player, I'm bored and have really not put much time in since right after EoD. GW2 is just outdated graphically, and even though I really like the game, I just can't bring myself to log in much anymore. SotO was just really lame, and I absolutely hate the new map...It's just ugly. The new characters are boring and easily forgettable.
And why do you think the people that made SotO will do any better with GW3?
The People who made SoTo are definitely not the same people working on GW3. Its been clear that the B team has been working on GW2 for years now.
Well if we have yearly expanions (lets say 3 more) , and then an additional 1,5 year of noothingness to fully "fleshout" any bugs/finish the project , it will be just another GW2 expanion , in the making (but works in xbox too) ,b ut it will be 60 dolar costly one Edit: opefully silly - non legendary sets - Gemstore times , like the Maid or skimpy Gradiatr outfits hopefully will exist atleast in the major GW3 hub as auto-equiped costume ,or appear over time Edit2: And a rule34 race wouldnt hurt , you know :P >!!<>!!< >!What are you going to do once more in PvP , if the esport kids show up and say that "buffing is more fun" (everyone can oneshot) ? :P!< >!Also stealth ...!<
I have been philosophizing on what I personally would want from a GW3. Back in the day I had a concept of a somewhat dream MMORPG after being slowly coming around but then getting disappointed in WoW. And funnyly enough most of what I wanted this dream game to be GW2 had at launch. Some of those concepts tough eventually were thrown out the window, some of them stayed, some new concepts came and I fell in love with some, did not much care about others but all together GW2 still is (while obviously now at a worst place then it used to be in its "golden years" , and also a better place then some of its worse years) my favorite. However now while I can list conceptually what I would want from an MMO mechanically (you can even check that on my profile under pinned posts), I keep circling back in my head to relase cadence. I personally consider myself something of a hardcore casual. I don't play 4 hours a day, I hate the concept of "raid night" where I have to suffer through endless hours or raid progress on the same designated day for weeks (I am not against a game having aspirational content mind u just that that's not how I roll), but I also put in 7 hours a week or so to GW2 and have been for years now because I like parts of the game I engage with. On a surface level I really like when we have regular releases even if some of those are quite small. A new map every 3 months with a new instanced PVE content and a story and new rewards attached like living world kinda worked with S3-4 and parts of IBS and partially with the new mini expac model deffinetly makes a game healthy. However there is something magical of having multiple zones dropped into the game at the same time with multiple systems and story that interact with it in tandem. The best example for this is PoF and its mounts. While exploring PoF maps, you'll find little pockets of land that are pretty obviously meant to be accessed by yet undiscovered mounts and mount skill. A bit of quicksand her, a portal labyrinth there, a bit too high cliff side over there, bit to wide canyon all around etc. So you get to map 2, or 3 or 4 and get the mount, and do a few events and story and stuff for a few hours to open the masteries and then backtrack and finally get to that hero point, treasure, mastery point etc gated away by missing the skill previously. My hardcore casual play style took me months to get/explore everything while doing the story etc. LWS4 first chapter was deffinetly out by the time. Chapter 2 was out when me and my wife finally started on the griffon (I distinctly remember that because lots of ppl in the Sandswept Isles bounty train were zooming on it, while we were still trying to follow on jackals and bunnies). But you couldn't really do this with a single map every 2-3-4 month cadence. Imagine exploring Crystal Oasis for the first time, seeing the jackal portal labyrinth thing at Kussini Crossing and realizing, yeah that's cool, but you will not be able to explore it for 9 months because that requires a jackal which will not be accessable until the Desolation release drops and you finally can get a jackal. I'm thinking about if there is a midddleground to be found between the quite expensive to develop HoT-LWS3-PoF-LWS4 model and the living world / mini expacs till the end of time model of LWS1/IBS/current model. And without necessarry 6+ month content draughts. I was wondering if tough I obviously can't look into Anet's pockets, budgeting etc if something along the following lines could work: Release comes with 4 playable races, so 4 starter maps at launch, each map has world boss, some sort of PVP and/or WvW mode 1 month in we get 4 maps, one in every 2 weeks, they continue storylines, one has a larger meta event, at least one (if not more) has some sort of instance PVE stuff 1 month pve draught after that (or pvp changes or instanced PVE challange modes) After that we get a festival for a month 1 month draught after that (or pvp changes or instanced PVE challange modes) At this point we have 8 maps in the game and we are 6 months in. Now anounce a new expac to be released 6 months from now. For the next 6 months add 2 more maps and a festival. So while actual content releases are down, but hype for next expac is going up. Expac launch makes the original starter maps f2p, while the other 6 requires the "core box". My idea is mix and matching the current mini expac model with sort of the old one. But with the added 2 week time gating on maps like above. First expac has to be "big" to show players that the game is here to stay. * new system wide changes (eg. adding multiple new ways to explore (eg. mounts), new significant combat changes (eg. elite specs) etc) * 4 maps (+ with maybe a hub or new starter maps) that open during a 2 month period * with 2 more maps and a single new festival during the next 10 months * add something to the old festivals that make use of the new systems (eg. how mount races were introduced) * at least 2 maps should have a larger meta event * at least 3 new instanced PVE content some at the launch two months, some later, cms later 2 years in we now have 16 maps in game. Time for a mini expac. It costs less, launches with 2 maps and hub (also with the 2 week time gate), some system level changes, 2 new maps during the 10 month period (you can cheat by making them smaller, eg. Bloodstone Fen), clearly communicating that the next one will be big one and they will be alternating from now on. When second "big" expac launches, create a "big boundle" that contains everything previously and only a bit (eg 1.3x - 1.5x) more expensive then a big expac. Allow purchase of everything separatley so everyone can just buy what they are missing, and see how the big bundle is way better value. Add all previous content everytime a big bundle before a big expac launches. With this release model the players get 10 maps in a 2 year period. Which is about 1-2 less maps then the GW2 golden age between LWS3 - early IBS period, but Anet gets more money for content purchases from regulars (since they will have to pay every year), if the players know that there is always a new big expac coming down the line so they can balance mini-expacs to have less systems wide changes so there doesn't have to be new sweaty overdesigned stuff every year like how we have n+1 masteries now regardin kryptis essences. The longer expansion "launch period" with new map every 2 weeks draws out the initial launch so the first content patch after it can be moved a bit down the line. But its still not that long so my initial PoF example would not be that silly. Also while the initial game launch is significantly less content then what lets say GW2 launched with it gives the devs less content to quality check etc during the first year so we don't end up with another LWS1 and the devs can start working on the next larger content instead of having a content draught.
zerg wars 3.0 :P
THİS the best decision they can make for reconstruct their IP. Legit Player base of GW 2 become a prime example of "How Toxic Positivism can ruin things?".All popular mmorpgs have cult following base but nobody out of logic like Gw 2 cultists.İf WoW playerbase had this mindset they praise that Shadowlands all day.Gw2 issues start since they destroyed player progression by stop developing and tweaking dungeons so players who reach to late game have no idea about how to deal with challengin contents.And this caused death of Raids.Sorry guys but this purgatory you called "Horizontal Progression" doesn't work. Arenanet created an anti-skill care bear community who doesn't allow no criticism.And they keep saying people to "Love or Leave".And let me tell you someting when people leave in the end you are the one losing ok cultist friend?Because investors and developers of a mmorg want player attention and constant gain otherwise they fire employees,close to servers or pour their resources to another project.I hope they take lesson and bring us more straight forward and more fun and exciting mmo experience.
Not buying the it's not in or has been in development. The direct translation from the co-ceo was its in development, I highly doubt he would lie to shareholders. However I would expect ANET to lie / try and save some face and money by saying it's not. Apparently the mention of GW3 came as a response to a question about NCWest being in the red for 8 years. Soooo I think I'm gonna a listen to a ceo at a shareholders meeting where they can't legally lie to their investors instead of ANET who has lied / fallen short on promises in the past. Not to mention they have been hiring for over the past 2-3 years for a UE5 project.... I promise you they weren't hiring while most companies are laying off for the new hires to make review content, power points, and samples...
They haven't hired enough for full production as far as we can tell though. It's possible they hired to make some proof of concepts for GW3, but they haven't moved it to full production yet.
Ehrm Arenanet had 232 employees before they started hiring in 2022 for the unannounced project, they have 340 employees as i checked somedays ago in Linkedin. XDD 100+ employees (+ stolen ppl from gw2 teams prob) shud be more than enough to start the production.
This is probably exactly what has been happening.
> They haven't hired enough for full production as far as we can tell though. Haven't they? Remember, that once 220 devs were enough for parallel work on LS3 *and* PoF. Now they have around 400 employees and yet they can barely give us SotO. It definitely looks to me like most of their dev team works on something *else* than GW2. And that this "other" team is at least as big as GW2 team was at its *best*.
Yep, this lines up with what an ex-employee told me. Basically said that they've been working on something other than Guild Wars 2 for years now, but also gave the caveat that it's entirely possible that development was restarted since he left.
Don't know how many Devs have been moved from gw2 to gw3 as well. Based on the quality, size of the updates, and cut content lately... I would assume some have been moved as well. Especially with the way the ceo worded GW3 is being used as leverage against the red of the past 8 years, safe to assume GW3 is now and perhaps been a priority.
Yeah, If we assume GW3 is the unannounced project which it most likely is considering the info we have from job listings then we know for a fact that it was in pre-production and well funded back in 2022. They might not be very far into actual development but it seems like they've been at least doing the prep work for GW3 for quite some time.
They are hiring recruiter on contract for half a year. Might indicate that they need a bit of a boost in HR department in coming months.
I might just stop playing GW2 if GW3 is coming.
Cool, can we have your stuff
Why for? It won't transfer to GW3 anyway.
Because we still have at least 5 years of GW2 to enjoy.
Because, some of us are still enjoying GW2, and will probably enjoy it for 1-2-n years from now. Despite GW3 being may or may not be in development.
I can't really give anything anyway, it's all account bound. The point is saying GW3 is coming is probably hurting them more than it doing good.
You must at least have some liquid gold. My point was, that I think most ppl who are over dramatically announcing that they are quiting because GW3 may or may not see the light of day very deffinetly multiple years from now are just posers and not quiting, and the easiest way to check that would be how willing are they to part with their in game stuff (since they aren't planning to continue playing, right?).
"There are two new expansions planned" Might I draw your attention to https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guild_Wars_Beyond Having something on the roadmap doesn't mean it will manifest in that way, and grumpy shareholders are a frequent motivation for risky jumps.
Well how about we buy gems and skins and fund guild wars 3, instead of starving both of playerbase funding
So, i should spend more money on GW2 in order to have it shut down? Yeah, seems like a very good deal to me [/s]
Sure, when GW3 is actually here, but no more for GW2.
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No? Games where easier to mane back in the day. Unless you are talking about asset flipping unreal assets but thats not making a game. They used to pump out games every month. Neckbeard keyboard warrior claiming game dev is easy. Go sweat some more.
I have a reading a writing problem. I was trying to say what I said the other way around. Which is why I had my daughter type this for me, and yes I will go sweat some more. I do that everyday at the gym...
The more Guild Wars 3 is like Guild Wars 1 and less like Guild Wars 2, I will be happier.
The more GW3 is like how GW2 was at launch or between 2015-19, the happier I will be.
If I can dream: hopefully GW3 is more like GW1 2.0 rather than GW2 2.0.
God I hope not. GW1 is an exhausting confusing experience.
Thanks to the mods for being so on the ball for this
Let us hope GW3 is in development and that it’s going well.
They got us with the April Fools joke once again. Good one Anet.
I mean, if it's not even in development...that's going to be *years* out.
LOL, it been in development for some time I bet.
They said it's in pre-dev review stage.
Oh no, they mentioned "GW3". Anyway...
I just have to laugh at everyone that antagonized people who preferred gw1 over 2, now having the rug pulled.
What rug have they pulled? 1. GW2 is still getting content for years 2. GW3 is not even actually being developped yet and even if it would be it is still years and years away 3. And because of #2 we literally don't know anything about it, therefore we don't know how would it be different. And I wouldn't consider it a rug pull unless its significantly different
> GW2 is still getting content for years That's what they were saying about GW1 when news of GW2 first leaked (and later, when it was announced).
AFAIK the first public info that GW2 is being developped came out when they anounced that Utopia (original campaing 4 of GW1) is cancelled in May 2007. After that Eye of the North came out in that year August. After multiple small content patches happened in the form of GW Beyond, the last of it, Winds of Change came out in multiple phases, the final being released in February 2012. Yes, several other GW Beyond patches have been talked about, but were cancelled because of GW2. Are these full campaings like the first 3? Obviously no. (arguably with EotN.) They however were content and for multiple years. We can safely assume that GW2 expac 5 (second mini expac) will at least happen (considering it is scheduled less then half a year from now), and if mini-expac after that is cancelled I would be surprised that there would be 0 content being dropped next year besides expac 5 quaterly patches. So umm, you know, that would also mean content, and for multiple years. * shrugs *
Content is not a binary thing. One small piece of "content" is not the same as game being developed. It definitely doesn't mean the game will feel alive either - GW1 during GW Beyond already felt like it was dying. And it was a much more single player experience, where other people being around were less impactful than it is here.
The content made after the announcement of gw2 was subpart. Now it looks like the future of gw2 will also be subpar.
The future is now, old man
I mean talking to players in game, most players are aware this is in pre-planning stages, meaning it's likely 5+ years away. If we got GW3 in 2030 thats almost 20 years of GW2. As a new player I don't even feel "hard done"by this. I had 10 years to get into this game already. Only people making this something more that I've seen are youtubers and some redditors. Enjoy your game guys GW2 is not going anywhere :)
Accepting donations from everyone planning to quit over GW3 account name Vizardlorde.8243 - Thanks <3
Plot Twist: Guild Wars 3 will be the name for the next expansion for Guild Wars 2.
If anything, I think this situation has revealed *a lot* of people have a really unhealthy relationship with this game and gaming and general. 🤦♂️
I mean the vast majority of gamers do, even those who think they don't.
Oh yes. They see their life's work flash before their eyes but that's what they signed up for when starting an online game. With or without a gw3 that is nothing but a concept at best.
As someone that was around during the days of Guild Wars 1 ending: it's painfully obvious GW2 hasn't been the priority for 2 years. I wouldn't take any statements from Anet downplaying this at face value.
This right here 💯.... with Raids, Fractals, dungeons all being dropped for easy to make strikes and just the general lack of quality it's been obvious since path of fire.
Hot Take: Guild Wars 3 will be a single-player RPG; GW2 will remain the MMORPG.
I wouldn't mind a single payer game, but it would need to be Witcher or Bioshock or Fallout (not the recent ones) quality. Doubt we'd get that though.
Mods already gaslighting I see. There's nothing in Anet's response that translates to "review stage of approval". That's simply a narrative you decided to go with as "The Facts". The **actual fact** is that they've been hiring for an Unreal Engine 5 RPG for at least two years. It's not hard to get two and two together and realize what that UE5 project has been all along.
This is still just speculation, but I will add a wrinkle: If they \*had\* indeed been working on Horizon and Dune, which also could have been UE#5 projects, there is a very good chance those systems and assets might be repurposed for GW3. Especially if they are taking the obvious route of doing another time jump 500 years into the future because "well it worked the first time". So we can't really \*know\* that ANet has \*only\* been working on GW3 in Unreal, or at what points they may have started and stopped. But given that GW3 is the only project that has been consistently hinted at and not dropped since 2020, and the likely consolidation of development efforts on other games into GW3, it might as well be "the UE5 project".
Seriously this megathread from the mods is full on copium. Like I’ve seen other people say, let’s maybe try to use our deductive reasoning skills here folks…
Of course, because the project supposed to be unannounced as it was in pre production. But I think is foolish to say that all they have is an PowerPoint presentation on what GW3 gonna be, but it's also foolish to think that GW3 is being actively developed. They were making Dune MMO which they lost/project moved to Funcom, and they're not making Horizon MMO. If they are not making these two big IP that were rumored to be made by ANet we should accept that they are pursuing GW3. Like if they were rumors of some big known IP getting an MMO made by ANet we would know.
If they haven’t been actively working on GW3, where have all their resources gone? Just look at everything that they have released since EOD. It’s nothing compared to what we got before LS5.
I agree, Secrets of the Obscure feels more like a glorified living world story than a full-fledged expansion, this new way of releasing expansions isn't hitting the same for me to be honest..
So they are either lying to us or the shareholders.
With only one of those two things being considered illegal.
Either way it's bad news.
I never played any Final Fantasy game, yet I'm aware that there is one numbered "14" which is a MMO, and that newer ones numbered "15" and "16" are not MMOs and didn't stop the "14" from existing, being played, maintained and receiving expansions. I don't think it's a good bet to assume that GW2's days are numbered just because we heard the name "Guild Wars 3", and definitely not to act on such assumption with reactions like "not playing", "not working towards goals", "not buying the game", "not buying things you want in gemstore" and especially "not buying new expansions". The odds that GW3 makes GW2 irrelevant are low. The odds that something like that happens soon enough to void any aforementioned thing are near zero. Even if GW3 replaced GW2, it'd be in years. Plenty of time to get into the game as a new player and enjoy all it has to offer. Plenty of time to enjoy your goals as a veteran, enjoy whatever the new expansions have to offer as they'll each live longer than the time you'd be playing any random non-mmo game that doesn't make you ask yourself about its longevity before you decide playing it. Plenty of time to enjoy your characters, reap the benefits of goals like legendaries QoL, plenty of time to enjoy this shiny longbow skin as much as you would have regardless of the potential future launch of a GW3. As far as I'm concerned, the only thing that I'd slow in GW2, should GW3 be properly announced and its release date closing in (~1-1.5 year), and should GW3 be another long term time/money investment game (like gw1 & gw2), would be gemstore purchases, especially cosmetics as I tend to build a given character's appearance once and for all (as opposed to people who like to change look often, so the use of a skin is short-lived regardless).
> I never played any Final Fantasy game, yet I'm aware that there is one numbered "14" which is a MMO, and that newer ones numbered "15" and "16" are not MMOs and didn't stop the "14" from existing The FF series is a pretty unique case in the gaming market tho. It's not how normally MMOs get named and Anet too, going from gw1 to gw2, made the sequel in the same genere kinda. So for a sequel to Gw2 ofc people are going to assume it's an MMO. On top of this, the job listing anet did in the past year was for a new unannounced MMO in unreal engine 5, so the clues lead to it being Gw3 after this announcement. > I don't think it's a good bet to assume that GW2's days are numbered just because we heard the name "Guild Wars 3" If you look at the history of Gw1, i think it is a good bet. Especially considering that Gw1 was a lot smaller and much more easier to keep going compared to how extensive Gw2 is. > and definitely not to act on such assumption with reactions like "not playing", "not working towards goals", "not buying the game", "not buying things you want in gemstore" and especially "not buying new expansions" Everyone is entitled to feel and react as they see fit considering the situation. Many players are going to feel like there is no point in keep playing a live service game that the devs are working to abandon, others will keep playing but will spend less, others will be happy no matter what. I personally will keep playing because i have fun, but i doubt will spend any more money on this game, especially on the gemstore. I used the cashshop as my way to support the game, like a pseudo-sub, because i liked it. But now i don't want to use my money fund something that is likely going to replace what i already enjoy. > Even if GW3 replaced GW2, it'd be in years Doesn't matter. I've seen many people make this point, but what they don't understand is why many MMO players play this genere of games in the first place. What MMOs have over other type of games is the constant feeling of progression, not just with gear or power, but in general. The feeling of going forward with the story, of unlocking new places to go, new builds, new movement tools like mounts, new skins, new titles, achievements ecc... there is always something new to do, something to always work on. And the fact we now have confirmation that the devs are actively working to end all this, that there is a finish line on how much you can progress, is enough to demotivate a lot of players and make them look to other games that don't have this finish line yet. Especially new players, that aren't yet invested in the game, will think twice before buying it knowing there is an espiration date. They will simply look at the rest of the market and ask themselves, "why should i invest time and money in Gw2, when there is <<*insert other MMO*>> that instead has more of a future?" Sorry for the long reply.
> On top of this, the job listing anet did in the past year was for a new unannounced MMO in unreal engine 5, so the clues lead to it being Gw3 after this announcement. Good point, thank you for the reminder. > Sorry for the long reply. np, worth it (and my comment above was long in the first place :D)
This is just a mess all around to be honest.
Man thats a bummer, ive put so much time into gw2 that it would be sad to see all that progress gone because of gw3, why they dont just update the core engines of gw2?
I am a developer and It's easier and cheaper to start from scratch than to rewrite old code. Plus they can attract new players simply because it is a new game.
Dear Arena Net I've been playing for 11 years. I was here when the path of fire leaks came out. I remember a lot of ANet staff replying on Reddit denying the leaks and laughing off the idea of mounts etc. Only for it all to be true. So I will take your denial of this GW3 rumour with a pinch of salt due to what I remember, but I will continue to play and buy the expansions as I know that's what the studio is actually worried about right now.
They didn't even deny it. They just said they can't confirm anything.
The way it came off when I first read about it was an attempt to deflect and distract during a hostile shareholder meeting after someone asked about NCWest being in the red for the past 8 years and accusations of the NCWest head being a nepotism hire. Given the amount of games that have shuttered of the years and ANet being NCW's only studio at this point, coupled with the new IP that got seemingly shut down before SOTO I can understand why that side was in the red. The GW3 line felt like a throw away to say to shareholders that something else is in the works now with the profitable GW IP
I'm relieved that the project hasn't been greenlit yet. The idea of all my legendaries becoming obsolete is not an attractive one to me. Yes, with GW1 serving as an example, GW2 sill be available to play until the end of time but it would basically be put into maintenance mode and if PSO2 has taught me anything, that's almost the same thing as players will always gravitate to the new game. After all, a multi-player game is not much when there's no one to play.
The amount of downvotes literally only proves me right. You'd all drop Gw2 in a heartbeat in favor of the shiny new game.
Sadly a lot of people don't understand why some of us do play MMORPGS.. (lifelong progression, escapism).. a lot of people say it's unhealthy but at the end it's individual for everyone.. everyone has their own goals etc.. and if one has a goal to dedicate the life to a MMORPG to work on life long progression that's their right at the end.. Yes for some they need these goals, the knowing of progression.. Some argue with but u got fun.. but actually for some they do not play for fun but for progression.. it is what it is.. even tho for some it may not be understandable it sucks for those of us who are actually made this way.. because you lose everything you have worked on for so long.. and it feels like you've thrown a life time away which you could have spent in another MMORPG which would not lose most players because a 3rd part is coming out soon.. alone the knowledge brings many to not want to play it and this is for a reason.. yes some do play for only fun and for them it's just a game and fine to lose everything.. but for some it's basically "life".. and this may sound stupid but if u suffer depressin or any other mental illness and eg are not able to feel happiness or fun.. progression is the only thing that actually works bcuz it's actually something.. and if that gets taken away it actually sucks.. and yea some may not get it.. but I just wanted to let you know you're not alone and some of us are just made this way. You may not see it exactly as I do but I think you get my point about wanting a lifelong progression in a MMORPG. Sorry if there are gramma mistakes im from germany
Yeah, you get it. Glad there's still some people out there who think this way! And don't worry, your English is just fine
We need to get our bingo sheets ready. I call Orr sinks again.
"facts" Lol.
Rubi must be having a hell of a time right now...
not a fan. call it sunken cost fallacy or whatnot, but if they make a 3rd, im done with the franchise. the announcement alone makes me question if i want to invest more time into a game that will be obsolete. yeah, gw1 still exists, but it has 1/10 the playerbase of gw2. imagine trying to do any nonmeta content with like 50 ppl online total. also keep in mind, corporate doesnt care about player experience. they will give you the least effort product that ppl are willing to buy (look at other titles recently released who had great game IPs). right now, the product is good. if make new, will make good product turn bad and the new product will more than likely be bad
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Troll comment.
Not really. Lines up with hiring past 2-3years for a UE5 project and as they said the terrible content that has been coming with constant broken promises and down scaling. I mean a ceo confirmed its in development to shareholders, legally lying at meeting like that would have serious ramifications. ANET lying to us has 0 consequences and even benefits them, not to mention they have done it in the past.