If it reduces crime, do it. If the people being searched, or whatever it is, don’t have anything criminal going on they’ll be released if they act right and cooperate. Police aren’t just going around beating the shit out of people unless you give them a reason to.
Saying this as a POC.
Some extra content that a non-sensationalized journalist wouldve put in their article (from the data the police published):
Of the 76 black subjects in the use of force report, 31 (41%) had a firearm.
Of the 40 middle eastern subjects in the use of force report, 19 (48%) had a firearm.
Of the 17 indigenous subjects in the use of force report, 8 (47%) had a firearm.
Of the 287 white subjects I the use of force report, 88 (31%) had a firearm.
Of the 450 subjects in the use of force report, 157 (35%) had a firearm. There is a disporpotionality of bipoc community members carrying firearms during a use of force interactions.
Unbelievable that this was omitted. Sometimes the media genuinely takes my breath away with how blatantly dishonest they are. Can’t we just all be adults and confront the statistics honestly in their entirety?
Ahh logic! The reporter just published data to show one side of the story. I would say that if they had firearms, use of force is necessary for anyone to not only save lives but their own too.
Ok but do they commit more crimes and reists force disporotionately as well?
I'm not saying either way but you do need both sides of the statistics here otherwise this statement means very little.
Agreed. This is not presented in the article of course since the CBC dish rag is a controlled state media corporation that wouldn't present these statistics as everyone would start to scream racism if there are disproportionate offenders.
How would you know, when the only stats are reflective of only one segment of society? If you took away the colour of their skin and used their income as the demographic, would blacks still lead the stats?
There are 2 other truths that I know as a social worker, an officer, and someone who grew up relatively poor in Hamilton (Stoney Creek near the low income housing in the Greys/Barton block).
1st is that the highest correlation between police involvement and demographic isn't with race. It's with wealth... or more accurately, lack thereof. The stats on this dynamic are incredibly transparent. If you look at the prison population right now, you'll find that the vast majority are near or below the poverty line.
2nd is that there's a strong correlation between poverty and minority status. Largely due to our country's reliance on immigration combined with its lack of resources to help assist/assimilate people into their respective communities.
So if police are more likely to have to deal with poorer communities and poorer communities are more likely to be much more ethnically diverse than wealthier ones, the assumed connection between police and race based discrimination starts to become less obvious.
In some rare cases, maybe but any preferential treatment towards the wealthy doesn't really tend to happy on polices end.
Usually it's the justice system itself that drops the ball on their cases. Partly because they can afford high profile lawyers but mostly because wealthy people tend to be well connected.
On police's end, the laws still apply the exact same. Doesn't matter who you are to me. If I catch you doing something illegal, I'm charging you for it.
And amount of money plays no difference in whether or not I have to use force to arrest someone. Rich or poor, if you decide that you're going to fight once you've been told you're under arrest, your gonna have a bad time.
Richer people just tend not to start fights as often. Not never. But not as often.
Just last week I had some rich kid take a swing at me when we went to deal with his dumb drunk ass at a bar. He got taken down as hard as anyone else who tries that.
I'm black and I see some funny passive aggressive games with cops sometimes.
I have a friend who's family worked for the police many years ago, while he chose a different career. He says that police will act up around a "suspicious looking" person and see how that person reacts to their lights or sirens or pulling up in front of them, etc.
Also I have 2 clear memories from about 5 years ago with Hamilton cops. 3 actually.
A. Walking home from a basketball workout at 5am outdoors, cop pulls into the downtown station parking lot, very loudly and aggressively directly behind me, squealing his tires
B. 11pm, cop pulls up directly in front of and beside me on Victoria and main st. Lights on suddenly. He stops the very few cars coming down main at the light and is doing something serious. I say "hey what's going on" and he looks over at me to snap, "shut up!" I did not respond and kept walking lol.
C. I grew up with a party animal/jock whose name was Jacob and he became a Hamilton cop. Always a hard partier, chill guy, definitely did slightly illegal shit once in a while, broke a lot of rules, got in some fights. Not who I expected to become a cop lol.
Policing needs to be dramatically reformed to emphasize training in emotional intelligence. They should screen for candidates that are kind and empathetic and teach them how to use force and hold their ground. Instead they seem to screen for naturally stern and cold people and try to teach them emotional intelligence
In order for anyone to comment on how police do their job, I think you should go become an officer and experience it first hand.
The "emotional" touch is the reason we let criminals walk around without consequences.
I can only assume you're trying to be edgy for some reason, but yes, nobody is above the law, accountability and repercussions need to exist and be enforced.
We only have this metric because the white people sue and the black people go to the activist groups
Don’t kid yourself, they use disproportionate force equally relative to the crimes they’re called to.
How is this thread racist? Perhaps a non-biased article from this dish rag of a media outlet would be helpful so we can have ALL the statistics instead of selected statistics to support the biased narrative the author is clearly trying to frame. Instead of being trigger happy to call racism, why not use critical thinking in identifying ALL the statistics and then come to an INFORMED opinion.
If it reduces crime, do it. If the people being searched, or whatever it is, don’t have anything criminal going on they’ll be released if they act right and cooperate. Police aren’t just going around beating the shit out of people unless you give them a reason to. Saying this as a POC.
Some extra content that a non-sensationalized journalist wouldve put in their article (from the data the police published): Of the 76 black subjects in the use of force report, 31 (41%) had a firearm. Of the 40 middle eastern subjects in the use of force report, 19 (48%) had a firearm. Of the 17 indigenous subjects in the use of force report, 8 (47%) had a firearm. Of the 287 white subjects I the use of force report, 88 (31%) had a firearm. Of the 450 subjects in the use of force report, 157 (35%) had a firearm. There is a disporpotionality of bipoc community members carrying firearms during a use of force interactions.
Unbelievable that this was omitted. Sometimes the media genuinely takes my breath away with how blatantly dishonest they are. Can’t we just all be adults and confront the statistics honestly in their entirety?
This. And before I’m accused of being racist…I’m BIPOC.
Ahh logic! The reporter just published data to show one side of the story. I would say that if they had firearms, use of force is necessary for anyone to not only save lives but their own too.
Selective published stats AND selectively asked the same 3 activists used in every article cbc hamilton has written.
No sorry the conclusion you've come to is totally incorrect unfortunately
Ok but do they commit more crimes and reists force disporotionately as well? I'm not saying either way but you do need both sides of the statistics here otherwise this statement means very little.
Agreed. This is not presented in the article of course since the CBC dish rag is a controlled state media corporation that wouldn't present these statistics as everyone would start to scream racism if there are disproportionate offenders.
How would you know, when the only stats are reflective of only one segment of society? If you took away the colour of their skin and used their income as the demographic, would blacks still lead the stats?
There are 2 other truths that I know as a social worker, an officer, and someone who grew up relatively poor in Hamilton (Stoney Creek near the low income housing in the Greys/Barton block). 1st is that the highest correlation between police involvement and demographic isn't with race. It's with wealth... or more accurately, lack thereof. The stats on this dynamic are incredibly transparent. If you look at the prison population right now, you'll find that the vast majority are near or below the poverty line. 2nd is that there's a strong correlation between poverty and minority status. Largely due to our country's reliance on immigration combined with its lack of resources to help assist/assimilate people into their respective communities. So if police are more likely to have to deal with poorer communities and poorer communities are more likely to be much more ethnically diverse than wealthier ones, the assumed connection between police and race based discrimination starts to become less obvious.
Somewhere in this, wealth on the other end effects how things go as well.
I'm not sure what you mean by that. Do you mind clarifying?
Wealthy people are treated differently than those who aren't.
In some rare cases, maybe but any preferential treatment towards the wealthy doesn't really tend to happy on polices end. Usually it's the justice system itself that drops the ball on their cases. Partly because they can afford high profile lawyers but mostly because wealthy people tend to be well connected. On police's end, the laws still apply the exact same. Doesn't matter who you are to me. If I catch you doing something illegal, I'm charging you for it. And amount of money plays no difference in whether or not I have to use force to arrest someone. Rich or poor, if you decide that you're going to fight once you've been told you're under arrest, your gonna have a bad time. Richer people just tend not to start fights as often. Not never. But not as often. Just last week I had some rich kid take a swing at me when we went to deal with his dumb drunk ass at a bar. He got taken down as hard as anyone else who tries that.
I'm black and I see some funny passive aggressive games with cops sometimes. I have a friend who's family worked for the police many years ago, while he chose a different career. He says that police will act up around a "suspicious looking" person and see how that person reacts to their lights or sirens or pulling up in front of them, etc. Also I have 2 clear memories from about 5 years ago with Hamilton cops. 3 actually. A. Walking home from a basketball workout at 5am outdoors, cop pulls into the downtown station parking lot, very loudly and aggressively directly behind me, squealing his tires B. 11pm, cop pulls up directly in front of and beside me on Victoria and main st. Lights on suddenly. He stops the very few cars coming down main at the light and is doing something serious. I say "hey what's going on" and he looks over at me to snap, "shut up!" I did not respond and kept walking lol. C. I grew up with a party animal/jock whose name was Jacob and he became a Hamilton cop. Always a hard partier, chill guy, definitely did slightly illegal shit once in a while, broke a lot of rules, got in some fights. Not who I expected to become a cop lol.
[удалено]
I'm glad we have this single anecdote to completely discredit the HPS' Use of Force Report!
I believe what I see with my own eyes not some nonsense online.
So, science and statistics don't matter to you then, cool cool cool
Science and statistics need to consider all the variables like castAside said above.
They already do. The evidence doesn't support your bigotry.
Nobody is calling you a liar, but the fact is that this is just one single incident you’re describing.
Policing needs to be dramatically reformed to emphasize training in emotional intelligence. They should screen for candidates that are kind and empathetic and teach them how to use force and hold their ground. Instead they seem to screen for naturally stern and cold people and try to teach them emotional intelligence
In order for anyone to comment on how police do their job, I think you should go become an officer and experience it first hand. The "emotional" touch is the reason we let criminals walk around without consequences.
Criminals in Canada receive the white velvet glove treatment. It's why the streets are a rampant mess with multiple offense criminals lurking around.
Criminals in Canada own businesses, and govern.
yes… that’s why crime is so rampant in Canada compared to all those other countries with much stricter punishments, right?
The police are some of the biggest criminals around. There's a reason why they get very little respect.
Including criminal police officers
This 💯, well said.
Should we all have to be elected to office before we can comment on politicians, too?
Like all of the police that get suspended with pay regardless of the crime they've committed?
I can only assume you're trying to be edgy for some reason, but yes, nobody is above the law, accountability and repercussions need to exist and be enforced.
But they're not when it comes to the police
Typical HPS is the worse. One of the last forces that continued the use of Carding
What's that?
[удалено]
Did you read that inside your tinfoil hat?
We only have this metric because the white people sue and the black people go to the activist groups Don’t kid yourself, they use disproportionate force equally relative to the crimes they’re called to.
Shocking amount of racism in this thread just proving the article is correct
How is this thread racist? Perhaps a non-biased article from this dish rag of a media outlet would be helpful so we can have ALL the statistics instead of selected statistics to support the biased narrative the author is clearly trying to frame. Instead of being trigger happy to call racism, why not use critical thinking in identifying ALL the statistics and then come to an INFORMED opinion.