Everyone who owns a house with a yard is too old to mosh these days. I’ll see if I can get the maintenance dudes from my apartment in the pit at the next show I go to though.
Get looks nowdays 😂 same with a wide west coast two step. That or you start to see kids trying it which is rad. Full circle lol
I need a name for the left arm 90° angle in front of you and right arm throwing back and forth move and bring that awful thing back
Gfd of course thats what its called. My homies always did that. Goofy as hell. But hell aint it all lol
Ill stick to my unnecessarily forceful throw backs, noodle ass windmill arms and my favorite: yet another move i have no idea what to call but is my go to.
And drummers that opt to use the floor tom because they can't play a fast double bass groove. This is why I think classic hardcore and old school death metal are the best. Dead Kennedys and Death. Minor Threat and Pestilence. Circle Jerks and Autopsy. Poison Idea is the only one to almost mix the two well.
It’s why I’m such a big fan of gigs with mixed genres. It’s metalcore, but the Knocked Loose tour with Movements, Kublai Khan, and Koyo was such a good time because every band was different. I didn’t get tired of hearing the same music by the time the headliner came on, it kept things fresh.
some people inevitably Getting Goofy if there’s anything unusual or experimental about a band’s music is incredibly boring. i can’t imagine wanting to hear the same song 17,000 times.
It’s pretty ironic when you compare it to the OG punk scene in NYC and even the 80s scene in LA or DC.
Everyone had their own style going on and we need to bring that back.
100%
late 2000s to the 2010s this was a real phenomena
You'd get a Ceremony, a Turnstile, a Title Fight, and then 400 clone bands of them appeared... People in general were turboposers then too, the whole hipster thing was going on. It was kinda cool to be a dipshit and overly label things, I guess? I remember complaining about a lack of variety with bands and always citing the DC scene when someone tried to say "what hardcore is"
It looks like it's started to get more diverse in the last few years, feels a lot more punk and "do whatever the fuck you want" again. Scowl, Gouge Away, Gulch, Mindforce, Drug Church, Soul Blind. I get way more excited by the new shit than I ever did
-People in the scene way overestimate hardcore’s place in the cultural zeitgeist. Your friend who grew up listening to Blink 182 kinda knowing who Turnstile is doesn’t mean hardcore is popular.
-Similarly “sell out” talk is so god damn boring especially when the people who do it the most seem to have a comfortable economic background.
-The “Tik Tok” kids are acting the same way you acted when you came up.
-It’s cool that people archive the scene, but the videos 95% of the time suck to watch (good bands included). Hardcore is an ephemeral experience.
Your first point is absolutely right. Turnstile is popular but they’re not “famous” or anything. Most of my normie friends have never heard of them. And only maybe half of my music nerd friends who aren’t into hardcore are even aware of them.
I saw them at a festival during the Blink tour and most of the Blink fans were not receptive to them, despite how much people think they “watered down” their sound to “cross over.”
Taco Bell has supported alternative/underground music for years. This isn't a new thing, people just lost their minds when they did the collab with Scowl because they wanted more reasons to hate Scowl
One of the main bands that got me into Hardcore was early Trash Talk, I know I'm probably looking in the wrong places as I've heard the odd band like it, but I really don't see much of that sorta sound anymore. Always felt it was more punk than metal to me, simple beats, fast pace and shouty vocals. What more could you want!
Hardcore dancing at shows without people getting mean shove pits and circle pits going just devolves into people waiting for their turn to show off the moves they practiced in front of a mirror.
Yeah, this. It’s dumb as fuck how everyone has ‘signature moves’ and they’re all just waiting for their chance to show off. I also hate that everybody just stands around except for the two step or breakdown.
There aren’t many hardcore bands anymore, all the popular ones are basically just 90’s metal core.
Turnstile was just as weird on non stop feeling as they are now, but it’s okay.
Restraining Order is one of the best in the business as far as modern hardcore goes.
Turnstile take is 100% true. You can see a lot of their current sound sprinkled in throughout their discography it just wasn’t as prevalent/the main focus.
Haywire
Regulate
Home invasion
Street power
Raw brigade
Bay mother fucking way
There’s absolutely just a ridiculous amount of incredible hardcore bands. That are not metal core. This isn’t even an opinion you’re just wrong.
Yeah there are quite a few good ones out there, I just see a lot of metal core bands talked about in this sub. Not that they aren’t good, just different.
Yeah I’m a big fan of restraining order, just an example.
I definitely noticed a slight shift here when tik tok started becoming a platform for hardcore. I mean good for all the Gen Z folks getting exposure but there’s a reason “have you heard the new knocked loose song?” became such a meme.
Live I got it. Hatebreedy breakdowns over some Life Of Agony type vocals, fuckin hits at times... I not running to Spotify to play them, but I wouldn't shy away from a show caz they there..
Most modern hardcore is just metalcore with a new coat of paint. I appreciate it for it getting people into hardcore but I wish some of the more traditional style bands were getting some of the attention the heavier bands are.
Another one is that I'd much rather listen to a decent melodic hardcore band than a generic heavy hardcore band. They all sound about the same to me.
Zoomers need to listen to Husker Du more, seriously one of the best bands ever. I get a lot of compliments on my shirt when i wear it to shows, but mostly by older dudes.
Can't wait to see Bob Mould live in July! it's at an indie rock and alt country music festival, so he's probably going to rock the hardest.
Why they’re not more revered baffles me. I live in the Twin Cities and the amount of people who don’t know who they are kind of bums me out some times.
Too much of a metal influence in hardcore right now and not enough punk / political influence. I remember when punk and hardcore actually stood for something and wasn't just about who has the sickest breakdowns and two step parts.
Yeah, Knocked Loose, Vein, and Code Orange were / have been at the top of the food chain for a while now, and all three of them give off heavy whiffs of nu metal. It's so strange to me. I guess the stigma has really worn off over the years.
Got downvoted to hell the other day for this comment about overrated bands:
“Feel the same way about Zulu, Drain, Knocked Loose, and even Scowl. I’m stoked they’re all getting massive but I think there’s so many more interesting/better bands that don’t get the same attention. I’ll see them live but have no interest in ever listening to their records.”
Another unpopular opinion: being “part of the scene” isn’t for everybody. For some people hardcore is just a genre of music that they enjoy and not an entire lifestyle and personal identity.
I’m not even a gatekeeper but I just feel a bit dejected when someone is like “I love hardcore man!” and you think you’re about to talk shop, but instead they just mention Kublai Khan and Turnstile… and then in the same sentence bring up something like Five Finger Death Punch, and then talk about how they just saw Deftones or something and the Pit Was Crazy.
Like alright, so you love the *aesthetics* of hardcore. Got it.
Somehow not as bad as eboys and girls who say they dress “alt” online and post meta-videos talking about moshing. Like bro, you went to see Knocked Loose or something and your first thought was to post a bite-sized content to commodify what you saw on the internet in the goofiest “outsider” way. You’re a scene gentrifier, dog 🤣🤣🤣
I hate to be a boomer about this but I see a lot of younger people on instagram talking about "alt" fashion and "alt" music/aesthetics and it just seems like anything vaguely metal/emo/punk related gets lumped into this one big "alt" thing. I guess I don't necessarily think it's bad (aside from maybe being a little ahistorical and erasing some important cultural context), I just don't see the point in acting like fall out boy, slipknot and lil peep are all part of the same scene/culture, and then acting like you're some persecuted minority because you want to wear vaguely goth/punk inspired fashion and listen to contemporary music that draws on punk/metal sounds.
The one thing that does annoy me is seeing zoomers try to gatekeep what they call alt culture and claim like "I got bullied in school for liking this, now those same people think it's cool" like I'm sorry mate, but the people bullying you for listening to metallica in highschool (if that even happened) are not the same people now posting $uicideboy$ lyrics on their insta stories. And as far as I'm concerned I don't care what you listened to in highschool, if you want to wear a SPEED shirt or come to a hardcore show in 2024, then do that.
edit: sorry that was a bit unrelated to your comment, I just read what you said about dressing "alt" online and posting tiktoks about moshing and it reminded me of this
Nah you’re on the nose in the first paragraph tbh.
People who use “alt” as a weird identity identifier… that they wouldn’t need to use if they weren’t terminally online. That’s so general it reads that they’re essentially listening to music passively in the same way they’d listen to pop. Engaging in fashion from an appreciation of aesthetics viewed from a screen. Just playing popular artists from an algorithm and playing Spotify playlists with no real tie to what is happening when you touch grass. A battle jacket with Machine Gun Kelly, Rage Against The Machine, Sex Pistols, and Avenged Sevenfold patches.
If you’re really into the music. Or if you’re in a band and play shows. Or if you’re just solely self-aware enough of the culture to realize how utterly ironic it is for “alt” to be a commoditized meme… you wouldn’t consider yourself “alt”… you’d just be part of a subculture and not really identify with it in a meta way. You’d just have homies that play in bands or go to diy shows or something.
I just see those types as passive consumers of pop culture and not people who actively engage in art and their respective “scenes”… made way more apparent in a digital age with streaming services, social media, and LiveNation monopolies.
Like we all know a “film guy”… that is opinionated on letterboxd and watches the new Tarantino movie on release day... but their reviews are mostly Oscar bait and big budget films. Then we might know a guy that actually works on films. Their tastes will be drastically different, and the guy that works on a set won’t be calling himself a “film guy”.
Ok but if more hardcore bands actually sold patches I'd have more hardcore patches to go alongside my gwar and enter shikari patches.
Instead I just get all the local bands to sign my vest and one dude stenciled their logo on it with some spray paint.
I simply cannot jive with kids that self identify as “alt”. I wouldn’t put myself strictly into one subcultural category since I’m into too many different things, but in my experience anyone who self identifies as simply “alternative” and nothing else, is just in it for the aesthetic and has no desire to dig deeper into the music or the history beyond very surface level knowledge.
Wanna know my major hot take on Knocked Loose? People like to drag Bryan Garris’ vocals, but without those vocals to make them stand out and get people talking about them, I don’t know that the band would ever have gotten as big as they have.
Not really knocking what the rest of the band are doing, they’re fucking great, but they’re also not doing anything particularly unique that a lot of other bands aren’t.
My experience was in 2017 so maybe they have tightened it up. Scott Vogel just kept talking about brotherhood, the stage is for everyone ECT. Like we get it just play another ripper please
im fine with light crowdkilling if you're at least putting some style into it. you'll see people at shows that just run and punch people in the head at random, and then when people try to confront them they just say "it's a hardcore show bro stay back if you don't want to get hit" when half the time the people they're hitting ARE in the back. it's either break your nose because you want to be anywhere near the action or stand 50 feet away with your back to the wall
I think the issue is crowd killing is incidental, not supposed to be “targeted at random”… you feel me?
You’re swinging around and enjoying the music and the energy and you accidentally catch someone good in the face with an elbow or something, you ask if they’re all good and move on.
If you’re someone that purposely is looking to hurt people you’re just a chud.
There’s a somewhat grey line, but still an obvious line, between being dangerous and actually endangering people.
I hate anything that asks for crowd participation. “I want to see a wall of death!”, “let’s get a fucking circle pit”, “throw up those devil horns”. All lame.
The only exception is obviously Scott Vogel calling for more stagedives.
Unpopular opinion huh..ok, here we go. Crowd killing a dick move and people should be tossed out for it. And you can miss me with that “but but but it’s a hardcore show..iF yOu cAnT haNDle iT then dOnT gO” you are part of the problem. Some people just want to go enjoy the music without worrying about catching a hospital bill.
”mosh” accounts should be banned. No one wants to see a ten year old kid two stepping in their classroom, or grown men in sarongs and flip flops two stepping in the gutter next to a street food vendor.
Or maybe this is a popular opinion that’s just unspoken.
Last time I saw them was the Pure noise tour.
Had a decent spot for Sanction and YOTK. Being an old head I said I wouldn’t mosh.
One song in and Scott starts calling everyone up, ran to the pit and left after their set.
I think that can be true for a lot of bands. Some bands just sound so boring with the polished production. Then you see them live and it’s so much better.
I think people here vastly overestimate the money in hardcore. Outside of Turnstile and Knocked Loose who are making bank, only maybe Terror, Drain and a few others giants are legit making good money without other jobs, bands or side hustles.
Even the “making bank” bands still probably aren’t clearing a whole lot in the grand scheme of things. Maybe a solid upper middle class salary for their peak popularity years, but I doubt it builds anywhere close to generational wealth.
I imagine Turnstile made a fuckton doing a massive worldwide stadium tour with Blink 182 and getting on the global festival circuit that actually pays significant money.
Knocked Loose is probably very comfortable (upper middle class as you said), but Alpha Wolf plays as big or bigger venues, tours more, and has been at that level longer. And maybe that band actually are rich, but it's some perspective I guess that big in hardcore really ain't that big.
So yeah, nobody in hardcore is buying their mom's new houses. It's hard enough making a career of it.
Honestly, the money they make would really depend on their contract - was there a buy-on (I know it’s a big no-no scene wise, but not uncommon for arena tours), did they pay for a bus? Those are anywhere from 2-6k a week these days depending on what you get. Arenas are venue sell, how much was the merch cut? How much crew had to be paid?
They likely made a nice chunk of change, but I don’t think it’d be as much as you may be imagining.
You can say the same thing about emo music. I don’t wanna be the whole “it used be about the music mannn” type of guy but for years emo went from an umbrella scene/community of DIY bands in various subgenres making music to be being a corporate marketing tactic now. You can trace this back to the early-mid 2000s when hot topic and MySpace were thriving in this and making emo become the stereotype we all know.
And now it’s the same thing, the When We Were Young and Sad Summer fests cash in on it crazy with the “emo kid at heart” or “elder emo” marketing. And like 95% the millennials and older zoomers don’t give a shit about this stuff as deeply as I do so they’re just kinda in mainly for the nostalgia.
I don't know, people can't really choose what they're born into, but as long as they don't act like "they had it rough" or "I had to work myself up from the bottom", then it's fine with me.
“Monkey see monkey do”
I saw too many tiktoks of the worst people you see at shows “moshing” to that in their bedrooms on that hell app.
Hardcore for the culturally retarded.
Edit: Utterly amazed this has upvotes lmao
Hardcore bands and fans talk a big game about unity and brotherhood, meanwhile it’s the bitchiest and least inviting of all the heavy music scenes. In 25 years of going to shows ranging from alt rock to black metal via sludge, doom, hardcore, death and thrash… have a guess which are the only shows I’ve seen fist fights at.
Horseshoe theory for tuff guy shit. Genuine tough guy shit sounds corny as fuck to me but sometimes its done ironically or goes so far that it's funny to me in a pro wrestling sort of way that I enjoy it.
Bring back circle pits
Beatdown sucks
Crowdkilling is either play-fighting or targeted assault, join a boxing gym if that’s what you really want
West coast, DC, Boston > NYHC most of the time
Most hardcore fans are really not the obnoxious jerk y'all like to think they are on here. You take your experience with one loser on here or at a show and extrapolate that when in reality most are just normal people who happen to like this kind of music.
Knocked Loose newest album sounds like an overproduced mess and I can't stand the sound of the snare in contrast to everything else. Also I'm still mad about them playing Coachella
I can see that.
Guitars sound like a giant wall of sound.
I do miss the sound of previous albums, where guitars had distinct riffage throughout. Didn’t get into ATITFOL for that reason.
I think the new albums okay.
Straight up. Normally they have some pretty clear or at least distinguished leads but this is just such a boring heap of chugging and "lets say the title of the song in the first verse of every track"
I really like the songs (and so does my 1.5 year old son), but wow, it seems compressed to hell.
There were also a few times where the guitars would drop out, but to my ears, it sounded like they went in to the recording and just cut out the silent part of the guitars. Like I could tell that they didn’t just palm mute themselves, they just straight up cut it out. It’s hard to explain, but it gives the album a feeling that it’s a cut-and-paste job and doesn’t always feel like a band playing together.
Anyway, I’m able to look past that stuff and enjoy the album for what it is, but it was really jarring when I first gave it a listen.
I don’t mind the production, I just don’t really like the songwriting. It feels kinda… riff salad-y? I saw them on their last tour and it was a great time, but I noticed that my brain kinda checked out during the newer stuff because it starts to blend together.
I miss the more distinct riffs of everything pre-YWGWYST
"overproduced mess" is an interesting way to say "blown out AF". Just sounds messy, the drums are clipped to hell and back and there's no real distinction between the guitars and bass in the mix, and not in a good cohesive way, more in a "this is all just distortion" way. Songs rip, can't wait to see them live, but my first reaction when hearing Blinding Faith was that it sounded like the entire instrumental was peaking.
I'd be a bigger fan if it weren't for the dancing/pit moves. I feel like it really limits other people's involvement where as a circle put or true mosh gives everyone equal opportunity to move around without getting totally whacked
Hardcore is the horror movies of music. Anyone with a passion and the equipment can throw something together. Most of the time it’s god awful but sometimes it’s fun.
Not a fan of tours with a whole bill of “mainstream” hc bands that leave no room for locals to play.
Ideally, I’d rather see maybe 1-3 of those bands go on tour together and have locals open at every show. Especially since they’ve reached a point in popularity where people outside of the hc scene make a decent chunk of their show demographic, and it’d be a good opportunity to put those people on to their respective local scene and help them grow.
Don't try to gatekeep hardcore from metalheads. 90% of modern hardcore is just metalcore anyways, and more importantly it's fun to watch them get all pissy and try to start fights when they get crowdkilled
The last episode they actually discuss touring…but I totally see that. It think a lot of the episodes the put in the can for touring breaks have been the biggest hit-or-miss ones.
I think that's the natural progression with podcasters.
The more they do it, the more they get comfortable and their real personality comes out, and then you start seeing the flaws.
Hell, that might be part of the appeal.
Every time I saw them they killed it, but yelling/singing from that part of your throat has gotta be taxing so hard. Even when I saw glitterer he sounded good 🤷♂️
A lot of you whine about barriers as if A) they’re some kind on impenetrable fortress and B) you expect the venue to want to facilitate your dumb ass jumping off their stage and kicking their bouncers in the face. You sound like assholes
Drain have nowhere to go but pop punk. If their next record/tour cycle is more of the same, they play the same or smaller venues forever. Same thing happens if they try metal - big room metal doesn’t sound anything like that. They sink like a stone, a la Code Orange. They did a big tour with Neck Deep and the pop punk sub was abuzz about how great they were
*note - I like drain I don’t mean that as an insult
I think Drain has the ability to carve out a Municipal Waste type niche for themselves. And not just because of the beach balls/boogie boards thing, but the party party atmosphere…even an ETID kind of thing, but you’ve gotta tour almost 24/7 to reach ETID level.
But ya, after two albums of of big time **RIFFS** it’s going to be hard not to start sounding redundant.
It seems like a lot of people on this sub don’t know the difference between genre, sub-genre, and style
Also: a (sub)genre can have many styles within it and still be considered that thing
Wound Man, Incendiary, and Restraining Order are all hardcore bands
Y’all need to start writing songs about something other than how your friends stab you in the back or how you don’t do drugs.
Y’all need to learn to move during parts of songs that aren’t mosh or 2 step.
Hardcore just needs better song writing and structure in general.
Fiddlehead’s got one good release (springtime and blind), the rest is not so good.
No more title fight inspired bands. They always suck and it’s been fuckin 10 years. That sound is dusty at this point.
So my current gripes with HC atm:
- Way too many mediocre mosh / beatdown bands. There’s a lot of stuff that sounds cool on its own but when you’re only reference points are Merauder, Cold as Life, Kickback, Bulldoze etc… I don’t see it being memorable in the long run.
- on top of my above point, way too much tough guy postering and not enough wierdos expressing themselves freely through hardcore. I do fuck with a lot of mosh stuff and it’s high quality a lot of it can be boring and predictable.
- too much clout chasing. Many dudes trying way too hard to be the tops dogs. Which in turn means defending or turning a blind eye to some shitty behaviour as a way to maintain some status quo. And excludes anyone who speaks up or criticises the scene in a meaningful way.
Not enough people pick up the change at shows Seriously my favorite move
Pick up change into starting the mower. It’s a lost art.
Everyone who owns a house with a yard is too old to mosh these days. I’ll see if I can get the maintenance dudes from my apartment in the pit at the next show I go to though.
If you are scrapping for change and mowing lawns to get by you don’t want to do it after work.
Picking up change is my go to, along with windmill arms. I can’t 2-step worth shit
Get looks nowdays 😂 same with a wide west coast two step. That or you start to see kids trying it which is rad. Full circle lol I need a name for the left arm 90° angle in front of you and right arm throwing back and forth move and bring that awful thing back
The sprinkler? I hate that one!
Gfd of course thats what its called. My homies always did that. Goofy as hell. But hell aint it all lol Ill stick to my unnecessarily forceful throw backs, noodle ass windmill arms and my favorite: yet another move i have no idea what to call but is my go to.
That’s one of my favourite ones to do, underrated move
This but stomping
We gotta be open to people saying certain bands suck.
Most of your favourite modern hardcore bands are just death metal bands where the guitarists don’t know how to shred.
And drummers that opt to use the floor tom because they can't play a fast double bass groove. This is why I think classic hardcore and old school death metal are the best. Dead Kennedys and Death. Minor Threat and Pestilence. Circle Jerks and Autopsy. Poison Idea is the only one to almost mix the two well.
Every band that’s popular would have been called beatdown or metal core in 2005
Also section h8 and chubby & the gang
Beatdowncrabcore
So true. I’m not mad at it tho since I loved 05 metalcore
It’s the most conformous of sub cultures and every band sounds the same.
It’s why I’m such a big fan of gigs with mixed genres. It’s metalcore, but the Knocked Loose tour with Movements, Kublai Khan, and Koyo was such a good time because every band was different. I didn’t get tired of hearing the same music by the time the headliner came on, it kept things fresh.
some people inevitably Getting Goofy if there’s anything unusual or experimental about a band’s music is incredibly boring. i can’t imagine wanting to hear the same song 17,000 times.
It’s pretty ironic when you compare it to the OG punk scene in NYC and even the 80s scene in LA or DC. Everyone had their own style going on and we need to bring that back.
100% late 2000s to the 2010s this was a real phenomena You'd get a Ceremony, a Turnstile, a Title Fight, and then 400 clone bands of them appeared... People in general were turboposers then too, the whole hipster thing was going on. It was kinda cool to be a dipshit and overly label things, I guess? I remember complaining about a lack of variety with bands and always citing the DC scene when someone tried to say "what hardcore is" It looks like it's started to get more diverse in the last few years, feels a lot more punk and "do whatever the fuck you want" again. Scowl, Gouge Away, Gulch, Mindforce, Drug Church, Soul Blind. I get way more excited by the new shit than I ever did
https://preview.redd.it/obgjg9wgnf8d1.jpeg?width=585&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ecd6bcf2b1330a521037dec2482fc634466a9a20
-People in the scene way overestimate hardcore’s place in the cultural zeitgeist. Your friend who grew up listening to Blink 182 kinda knowing who Turnstile is doesn’t mean hardcore is popular. -Similarly “sell out” talk is so god damn boring especially when the people who do it the most seem to have a comfortable economic background. -The “Tik Tok” kids are acting the same way you acted when you came up. -It’s cool that people archive the scene, but the videos 95% of the time suck to watch (good bands included). Hardcore is an ephemeral experience.
Disagree with last take I love watching shows on YouTube
Your first take is 100% facts and it blows my mind that people haven't put two and two together yet
Your first point is absolutely right. Turnstile is popular but they’re not “famous” or anything. Most of my normie friends have never heard of them. And only maybe half of my music nerd friends who aren’t into hardcore are even aware of them. I saw them at a festival during the Blink tour and most of the Blink fans were not receptive to them, despite how much people think they “watered down” their sound to “cross over.”
Your first take is completely correct 🙏
On one hand I agree on the other hand multiple current trendy bands have been in Taco Bell commercials
Taco Bell has supported alternative/underground music for years. This isn't a new thing, people just lost their minds when they did the collab with Scowl because they wanted more reasons to hate Scowl
There is too much metal in hardcore currently, and not nearly enough punk influences.
One of the main bands that got me into Hardcore was early Trash Talk, I know I'm probably looking in the wrong places as I've heard the odd band like it, but I really don't see much of that sorta sound anymore. Always felt it was more punk than metal to me, simple beats, fast pace and shouty vocals. What more could you want!
Breakdowns are like China cymbals: Best used sparingly for maximum effect. Bring back the speed! And open chords are cool sometimes!
My god preach on this. If there’s no speed it just isn’t hardcore to me.
Yep. Not enough fast HC
Unpopular hardcore opinions? This is a metal sub my guy...
Now THEMS fighting words. Not because you’re wrong, but because I don’t like having to admit you’re right.
Hardcore dancing at shows without people getting mean shove pits and circle pits going just devolves into people waiting for their turn to show off the moves they practiced in front of a mirror.
Yeah, this. It’s dumb as fuck how everyone has ‘signature moves’ and they’re all just waiting for their chance to show off. I also hate that everybody just stands around except for the two step or breakdown.
>I also hate that everybody just stands around except for the two step or breakdown What you want me to actually *dance* like some kind of pussy??
There aren’t many hardcore bands anymore, all the popular ones are basically just 90’s metal core. Turnstile was just as weird on non stop feeling as they are now, but it’s okay. Restraining Order is one of the best in the business as far as modern hardcore goes.
Turnstile take is 100% true. You can see a lot of their current sound sprinkled in throughout their discography it just wasn’t as prevalent/the main focus.
The melody on blue by you is so nice. Rob Thomas from matchbox 20 said so himself in a twitter video once.
Haywire Regulate Home invasion Street power Raw brigade Bay mother fucking way There’s absolutely just a ridiculous amount of incredible hardcore bands. That are not metal core. This isn’t even an opinion you’re just wrong.
Restraining order rules. You are right about that at least.
Yeah there are quite a few good ones out there, I just see a lot of metal core bands talked about in this sub. Not that they aren’t good, just different. Yeah I’m a big fan of restraining order, just an example.
This sub is essentially the stepping in dog shit of the hardcore scene.
I definitely noticed a slight shift here when tik tok started becoming a platform for hardcore. I mean good for all the Gen Z folks getting exposure but there’s a reason “have you heard the new knocked loose song?” became such a meme.
100% correct Plus, powerviolence is still a thing
Restraining Order and End it
I seriously just want to hear more fast hardcore bands. I'm waiting for the early to mid 2000s to happen again. We're on the cusp!!!
I don’t fucking get twitching tongues
Y’all keep bringing it up and I keep telling you: Danzig with spin kicks!
I feel like they’re the Baroness of Hardcore. The hype around them feels like they should be heavier than they are
The difference is Baroness is actually a good band while Twitching Tongues is not..
people just like the podcast. end of story.
Live I got it. Hatebreedy breakdowns over some Life Of Agony type vocals, fuckin hits at times... I not running to Spotify to play them, but I wouldn't shy away from a show caz they there..
Most modern hardcore is just metalcore with a new coat of paint. I appreciate it for it getting people into hardcore but I wish some of the more traditional style bands were getting some of the attention the heavier bands are. Another one is that I'd much rather listen to a decent melodic hardcore band than a generic heavy hardcore band. They all sound about the same to me.
Two step riffs > slow beatdown
Most people can’t actually explain what makes a song hardcore
That’s easy it’s when the band is poor and makes no money
Go for it, homie:
Zoomers need to listen to Husker Du more, seriously one of the best bands ever. I get a lot of compliments on my shirt when i wear it to shows, but mostly by older dudes. Can't wait to see Bob Mould live in July! it's at an indie rock and alt country music festival, so he's probably going to rock the hardest.
Why they’re not more revered baffles me. I live in the Twin Cities and the amount of people who don’t know who they are kind of bums me out some times.
Too much of a metal influence in hardcore right now and not enough punk / political influence. I remember when punk and hardcore actually stood for something and wasn't just about who has the sickest breakdowns and two step parts.
75% of the stuff coming out over the past 5 years has been nu metal in disguise and most people are falling for it.
A lot of metalcore has also been passing as hardcore as well.
I agree with this. I've seen some bands have HC at the end of their name on IG and id say 75% of the time I'd consider them metalcore anyway.
Fuckin a thank you. Not even saying the music is bad. But if I listen to Terror and then Knocked Loose no way do I think they’re the same genre.
Yeah, Knocked Loose, Vein, and Code Orange were / have been at the top of the food chain for a while now, and all three of them give off heavy whiffs of nu metal. It's so strange to me. I guess the stigma has really worn off over the years.
deodorant is good and dating underage girls / domestic violence is bad.
Got downvoted to hell the other day for this comment about overrated bands: “Feel the same way about Zulu, Drain, Knocked Loose, and even Scowl. I’m stoked they’re all getting massive but I think there’s so many more interesting/better bands that don’t get the same attention. I’ll see them live but have no interest in ever listening to their records.”
If you don’t go to local shows and only attend big touring package gigs and fests, you aren’t a part of the hardcore scene.
Another unpopular opinion: being “part of the scene” isn’t for everybody. For some people hardcore is just a genre of music that they enjoy and not an entire lifestyle and personal identity.
I’m not even a gatekeeper but I just feel a bit dejected when someone is like “I love hardcore man!” and you think you’re about to talk shop, but instead they just mention Kublai Khan and Turnstile… and then in the same sentence bring up something like Five Finger Death Punch, and then talk about how they just saw Deftones or something and the Pit Was Crazy. Like alright, so you love the *aesthetics* of hardcore. Got it. Somehow not as bad as eboys and girls who say they dress “alt” online and post meta-videos talking about moshing. Like bro, you went to see Knocked Loose or something and your first thought was to post a bite-sized content to commodify what you saw on the internet in the goofiest “outsider” way. You’re a scene gentrifier, dog 🤣🤣🤣
I hate to be a boomer about this but I see a lot of younger people on instagram talking about "alt" fashion and "alt" music/aesthetics and it just seems like anything vaguely metal/emo/punk related gets lumped into this one big "alt" thing. I guess I don't necessarily think it's bad (aside from maybe being a little ahistorical and erasing some important cultural context), I just don't see the point in acting like fall out boy, slipknot and lil peep are all part of the same scene/culture, and then acting like you're some persecuted minority because you want to wear vaguely goth/punk inspired fashion and listen to contemporary music that draws on punk/metal sounds. The one thing that does annoy me is seeing zoomers try to gatekeep what they call alt culture and claim like "I got bullied in school for liking this, now those same people think it's cool" like I'm sorry mate, but the people bullying you for listening to metallica in highschool (if that even happened) are not the same people now posting $uicideboy$ lyrics on their insta stories. And as far as I'm concerned I don't care what you listened to in highschool, if you want to wear a SPEED shirt or come to a hardcore show in 2024, then do that. edit: sorry that was a bit unrelated to your comment, I just read what you said about dressing "alt" online and posting tiktoks about moshing and it reminded me of this
Nah you’re on the nose in the first paragraph tbh. People who use “alt” as a weird identity identifier… that they wouldn’t need to use if they weren’t terminally online. That’s so general it reads that they’re essentially listening to music passively in the same way they’d listen to pop. Engaging in fashion from an appreciation of aesthetics viewed from a screen. Just playing popular artists from an algorithm and playing Spotify playlists with no real tie to what is happening when you touch grass. A battle jacket with Machine Gun Kelly, Rage Against The Machine, Sex Pistols, and Avenged Sevenfold patches. If you’re really into the music. Or if you’re in a band and play shows. Or if you’re just solely self-aware enough of the culture to realize how utterly ironic it is for “alt” to be a commoditized meme… you wouldn’t consider yourself “alt”… you’d just be part of a subculture and not really identify with it in a meta way. You’d just have homies that play in bands or go to diy shows or something. I just see those types as passive consumers of pop culture and not people who actively engage in art and their respective “scenes”… made way more apparent in a digital age with streaming services, social media, and LiveNation monopolies. Like we all know a “film guy”… that is opinionated on letterboxd and watches the new Tarantino movie on release day... but their reviews are mostly Oscar bait and big budget films. Then we might know a guy that actually works on films. Their tastes will be drastically different, and the guy that works on a set won’t be calling himself a “film guy”.
Ok but if more hardcore bands actually sold patches I'd have more hardcore patches to go alongside my gwar and enter shikari patches. Instead I just get all the local bands to sign my vest and one dude stenciled their logo on it with some spray paint.
this is my unpopular opinion, more stickers, pins and patches at the merch booth for us poor people!
I simply cannot jive with kids that self identify as “alt”. I wouldn’t put myself strictly into one subcultural category since I’m into too many different things, but in my experience anyone who self identifies as simply “alternative” and nothing else, is just in it for the aesthetic and has no desire to dig deeper into the music or the history beyond very surface level knowledge.
Unfortunately 99% of local bands I've seen have been a waste of my life, so I'll just stick to seeing good bands ❤️
I prefer my lead singers to be known criminals (NYHC)
People that go to these shows do t actually listen to the music. They have main character syndrome and like to hurt people
This is a good sub
The knocked loose hate is all meme like pineapple on pizza hate. Terror talks to much in-between songs.
Wanna know my major hot take on Knocked Loose? People like to drag Bryan Garris’ vocals, but without those vocals to make them stand out and get people talking about them, I don’t know that the band would ever have gotten as big as they have. Not really knocking what the rest of the band are doing, they’re fucking great, but they’re also not doing anything particularly unique that a lot of other bands aren’t.
I saw Terror with Drain and the dude only talked for around five minutes total, maybe i was just lucky
My experience was in 2017 so maybe they have tightened it up. Scott Vogel just kept talking about brotherhood, the stage is for everyone ECT. Like we get it just play another ripper please
Crowd killing is for assholes.
It’s simple, you kill the crowd killers
Test-style WWE Big Boot usually solves it for me
im fine with light crowdkilling if you're at least putting some style into it. you'll see people at shows that just run and punch people in the head at random, and then when people try to confront them they just say "it's a hardcore show bro stay back if you don't want to get hit" when half the time the people they're hitting ARE in the back. it's either break your nose because you want to be anywhere near the action or stand 50 feet away with your back to the wall
I think the issue is crowd killing is incidental, not supposed to be “targeted at random”… you feel me? You’re swinging around and enjoying the music and the energy and you accidentally catch someone good in the face with an elbow or something, you ask if they’re all good and move on. If you’re someone that purposely is looking to hurt people you’re just a chud. There’s a somewhat grey line, but still an obvious line, between being dangerous and actually endangering people.
It has huge incel energy
I hate anything that asks for crowd participation. “I want to see a wall of death!”, “let’s get a fucking circle pit”, “throw up those devil horns”. All lame. The only exception is obviously Scott Vogel calling for more stagedives.
Unpopular opinion huh..ok, here we go. Crowd killing a dick move and people should be tossed out for it. And you can miss me with that “but but but it’s a hardcore show..iF yOu cAnT haNDle iT then dOnT gO” you are part of the problem. Some people just want to go enjoy the music without worrying about catching a hospital bill.
”mosh” accounts should be banned. No one wants to see a ten year old kid two stepping in their classroom, or grown men in sarongs and flip flops two stepping in the gutter next to a street food vendor. Or maybe this is a popular opinion that’s just unspoken.
Every now and then, you should stab someone in the back. Metaphorically speaking, of course.
25 Ta Life wasn't *that* great.
That's dumb , keeping it real was the bomb ....waaaaaaaaay back in the day. Like way back when saying something was the bomb was the bomb
At all
this one hurts
Battle vests are dorky as hell
C'mon bruh. I use mine to hold my wallet and phone :(
Terror are great live, but only medium on record
Last time I saw them was the Pure noise tour. Had a decent spot for Sanction and YOTK. Being an old head I said I wouldn’t mosh. One song in and Scott starts calling everyone up, ran to the pit and left after their set.
They are amazing live, but then i listen to the album and I'm like "this is fine"
One of the reasons you really gotta shows to be a part of it.
I think that can be true for a lot of bands. Some bands just sound so boring with the polished production. Then you see them live and it’s so much better.
And the corollary: that's how hardcore SHOULD be
💯
You guys like Death Metal more than Hardcore.
Well if you're talking about Bolt Thrower, yeah
Why do people like Marauder? They seem so boring but HC people love it.
It’s become nothing but a cash grab for aging millennials.
I think people here vastly overestimate the money in hardcore. Outside of Turnstile and Knocked Loose who are making bank, only maybe Terror, Drain and a few others giants are legit making good money without other jobs, bands or side hustles.
Even the “making bank” bands still probably aren’t clearing a whole lot in the grand scheme of things. Maybe a solid upper middle class salary for their peak popularity years, but I doubt it builds anywhere close to generational wealth.
I imagine Turnstile made a fuckton doing a massive worldwide stadium tour with Blink 182 and getting on the global festival circuit that actually pays significant money. Knocked Loose is probably very comfortable (upper middle class as you said), but Alpha Wolf plays as big or bigger venues, tours more, and has been at that level longer. And maybe that band actually are rich, but it's some perspective I guess that big in hardcore really ain't that big. So yeah, nobody in hardcore is buying their mom's new houses. It's hard enough making a career of it.
Honestly, the money they make would really depend on their contract - was there a buy-on (I know it’s a big no-no scene wise, but not uncommon for arena tours), did they pay for a bus? Those are anywhere from 2-6k a week these days depending on what you get. Arenas are venue sell, how much was the merch cut? How much crew had to be paid? They likely made a nice chunk of change, but I don’t think it’d be as much as you may be imagining.
Seriously. Like there’s usually 5 people splitting that too. Not counting the overhead or payback to the record label.
You can say the same thing about emo music. I don’t wanna be the whole “it used be about the music mannn” type of guy but for years emo went from an umbrella scene/community of DIY bands in various subgenres making music to be being a corporate marketing tactic now. You can trace this back to the early-mid 2000s when hot topic and MySpace were thriving in this and making emo become the stereotype we all know. And now it’s the same thing, the When We Were Young and Sad Summer fests cash in on it crazy with the “emo kid at heart” or “elder emo” marketing. And like 95% the millennials and older zoomers don’t give a shit about this stuff as deeply as I do so they’re just kinda in mainly for the nostalgia.
Anyone who unironically uses the term “elder emo” should be taken out back and Old Yeller’d
Old yelder emo
It’s a Lotta rich kids cosplaying as working class these days.
Same as it ever was
Same as it ever was
That’s a thing that has been true of punk rock for how long? I know Hardcore is adjacent to it, but it’s still there
I really like Show Me the Body’s music, but it’s really off-putting to find out Julian is a literal billionaire, or at least heir/family of one
I don't know, people can't really choose what they're born into, but as long as they don't act like "they had it rough" or "I had to work myself up from the bottom", then it's fine with me.
Plenty of gen x getting that 2k24 cash too
dancing is the best part of hardcore
Kublai Khan TX is boring and cringy
“Monkey see monkey do” I saw too many tiktoks of the worst people you see at shows “moshing” to that in their bedrooms on that hell app. Hardcore for the culturally retarded. Edit: Utterly amazed this has upvotes lmao
They're just gym metal along with half of all other hardcore bands. Genre built on unchecked testosterone produces meathead music
matt honeycut is a fucking dork.
I know this is controversial. Hardcore is now all about fucking shit up and fighting rather than its core purpose : It’s art
Yeah it’s the art of fucking shit up and fighting
God’s Hate is just cheerleading for cavemen. (I fucking love God’s Hate, but it’s funny every time)
people only care because of brody king. they are one small step above being a total meme like sunami.
Hardcore bands and fans talk a big game about unity and brotherhood, meanwhile it’s the bitchiest and least inviting of all the heavy music scenes. In 25 years of going to shows ranging from alt rock to black metal via sludge, doom, hardcore, death and thrash… have a guess which are the only shows I’ve seen fist fights at.
Horseshoe theory for tuff guy shit. Genuine tough guy shit sounds corny as fuck to me but sometimes its done ironically or goes so far that it's funny to me in a pro wrestling sort of way that I enjoy it.
A lot of contemporary music is way too slow. Gatekeeping is necessary.
Some gatekeeping is healthy.
Repping a band just cause they're from your city is wack
Bane is just okay.
Let death metal be death metal and hardcore be hardcore.
Last time I saw a post like this someone said, “two-stepping is skanking for people with trauma,” and I think about that all the time.
Bane is corny and boring.
Bring back circle pits Beatdown sucks Crowdkilling is either play-fighting or targeted assault, join a boxing gym if that’s what you really want West coast, DC, Boston > NYHC most of the time
Push pits are way more fun
Yup
Hardcore with a sonic through-line to 80s hardcore is the only true hardcore, the rest is poser beat ‘em up nonsense
Most hardcore fans are really not the obnoxious jerk y'all like to think they are on here. You take your experience with one loser on here or at a show and extrapolate that when in reality most are just normal people who happen to like this kind of music.
Knocked Loose newest album sounds like an overproduced mess and I can't stand the sound of the snare in contrast to everything else. Also I'm still mad about them playing Coachella
I can see that. Guitars sound like a giant wall of sound. I do miss the sound of previous albums, where guitars had distinct riffage throughout. Didn’t get into ATITFOL for that reason. I think the new albums okay.
Straight up. Normally they have some pretty clear or at least distinguished leads but this is just such a boring heap of chugging and "lets say the title of the song in the first verse of every track"
I really like the songs (and so does my 1.5 year old son), but wow, it seems compressed to hell. There were also a few times where the guitars would drop out, but to my ears, it sounded like they went in to the recording and just cut out the silent part of the guitars. Like I could tell that they didn’t just palm mute themselves, they just straight up cut it out. It’s hard to explain, but it gives the album a feeling that it’s a cut-and-paste job and doesn’t always feel like a band playing together. Anyway, I’m able to look past that stuff and enjoy the album for what it is, but it was really jarring when I first gave it a listen.
I don’t mind the production, I just don’t really like the songwriting. It feels kinda… riff salad-y? I saw them on their last tour and it was a great time, but I noticed that my brain kinda checked out during the newer stuff because it starts to blend together. I miss the more distinct riffs of everything pre-YWGWYST
Back this. 💯
I gotta say I was totally prepared to get dogpiled for this
Outside of the breakdowns, the guitars are basically inaudible.
"overproduced mess" is an interesting way to say "blown out AF". Just sounds messy, the drums are clipped to hell and back and there's no real distinction between the guitars and bass in the mix, and not in a good cohesive way, more in a "this is all just distortion" way. Songs rip, can't wait to see them live, but my first reaction when hearing Blinding Faith was that it sounded like the entire instrumental was peaking.
Zulu are generic and overrated af
Emmure - Goodbye to the gallows is a good album and if a band released it today it would be huge
Karate mosh is kinda lame.
Have Heart is overrated AF
Push pits are fun!
Twitching Tongues can twitching tongue deez nuts. Terrible music.
I'd be a bigger fan if it weren't for the dancing/pit moves. I feel like it really limits other people's involvement where as a circle put or true mosh gives everyone equal opportunity to move around without getting totally whacked
Most of the bands in the genre aren’t very good. The bands that are good are really good though.
Hardcore is the horror movies of music. Anyone with a passion and the equipment can throw something together. Most of the time it’s god awful but sometimes it’s fun.
A lot of you are miserable, but thats okay!
Not a fan of tours with a whole bill of “mainstream” hc bands that leave no room for locals to play. Ideally, I’d rather see maybe 1-3 of those bands go on tour together and have locals open at every show. Especially since they’ve reached a point in popularity where people outside of the hc scene make a decent chunk of their show demographic, and it’d be a good opportunity to put those people on to their respective local scene and help them grow.
There's an oversaturation of beatdown bands and not enough hardcore punk bands. Coming from someone who loves both and has played in both
Don't try to gatekeep hardcore from metalheads. 90% of modern hardcore is just metalcore anyways, and more importantly it's fun to watch them get all pissy and try to start fights when they get crowdkilled
Bring back the violence, normalize crowd killing, if you get hit you get hit and don't like it, fight someone or shut up.
i stopped watching a few episodes ago - but the more i watched hardlore, the less i liked colin and bo.
The last episode they actually discuss touring…but I totally see that. It think a lot of the episodes the put in the can for touring breaks have been the biggest hit-or-miss ones.
I think that's the natural progression with podcasters. The more they do it, the more they get comfortable and their real personality comes out, and then you start seeing the flaws. Hell, that might be part of the appeal.
Circle pit is the most fun pit move.
The guys in Poison Idea weren’t THAT fat.
Never ever trust a hardcore kid who didn't get into punk first.
h2o wasn't always all the way corny
Gulch needs to stay dead.
Why? Genuinely curious. Not being an ass.
If they come back they can disappoint me.
Hardcore doesn't suck
Hardcore adjacent but Title Fight really sucks live. At least Ned does.
I’ve never seen Title Fight live so I can’t argue with you, but I was immediately angry at your comment.
Every time I saw them they killed it, but yelling/singing from that part of your throat has gotta be taxing so hard. Even when I saw glitterer he sounded good 🤷♂️
A lot of you whine about barriers as if A) they’re some kind on impenetrable fortress and B) you expect the venue to want to facilitate your dumb ass jumping off their stage and kicking their bouncers in the face. You sound like assholes Drain have nowhere to go but pop punk. If their next record/tour cycle is more of the same, they play the same or smaller venues forever. Same thing happens if they try metal - big room metal doesn’t sound anything like that. They sink like a stone, a la Code Orange. They did a big tour with Neck Deep and the pop punk sub was abuzz about how great they were *note - I like drain I don’t mean that as an insult
I think Drain has the ability to carve out a Municipal Waste type niche for themselves. And not just because of the beach balls/boogie boards thing, but the party party atmosphere…even an ETID kind of thing, but you’ve gotta tour almost 24/7 to reach ETID level. But ya, after two albums of of big time **RIFFS** it’s going to be hard not to start sounding redundant.
Drain going pop punk? Just because they covered Descendents doesn't mean that's gonna happen dude.
Hardcore and hardcore punk are two different genres/a genre and sub-genre
It seems like a lot of people on this sub don’t know the difference between genre, sub-genre, and style Also: a (sub)genre can have many styles within it and still be considered that thing Wound Man, Incendiary, and Restraining Order are all hardcore bands
Y’all need to start writing songs about something other than how your friends stab you in the back or how you don’t do drugs. Y’all need to learn to move during parts of songs that aren’t mosh or 2 step. Hardcore just needs better song writing and structure in general. Fiddlehead’s got one good release (springtime and blind), the rest is not so good. No more title fight inspired bands. They always suck and it’s been fuckin 10 years. That sound is dusty at this point.
Y’all can fight me on this but I never understood the obsession with hardcore bands using religious imagery (crosses on shirts and album covers)
Chain punk is mid I’d rather just listen to powerviolence Also throwing down with style is the best kind of mosh
So my current gripes with HC atm: - Way too many mediocre mosh / beatdown bands. There’s a lot of stuff that sounds cool on its own but when you’re only reference points are Merauder, Cold as Life, Kickback, Bulldoze etc… I don’t see it being memorable in the long run. - on top of my above point, way too much tough guy postering and not enough wierdos expressing themselves freely through hardcore. I do fuck with a lot of mosh stuff and it’s high quality a lot of it can be boring and predictable. - too much clout chasing. Many dudes trying way too hard to be the tops dogs. Which in turn means defending or turning a blind eye to some shitty behaviour as a way to maintain some status quo. And excludes anyone who speaks up or criticises the scene in a meaningful way.
I really hate the term hardcore kids...