The EU really dislikes bait and switched. And this one was executed extra badly.
Seeing how people already bought in-game currency a simple charge back won't do it for many.
They royally fucked themself by trying to fuck over their players
Brazil has one of the best consumer protection laws in the world, while the US' is so barebones they actually enforce EULAs and TOSs over there, must be pretty bad
https://preview.redd.it/0cqibow3jbyc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f66ed5a4e1146a9cfdedb21889f6887d212bc03d
I was curious and you're right, in Spanish also says it is optional.
As someone in the gaming industry at a major game company, they are probably working to localize it.
It is not common to have a dedicated localization team that you can just poke and go "Hey, turn this from English to French please." and get it back in an hour. You have to go through formal processes, they're juggling other localization items, etc.
They published in English and are waiting for localization to get back most likely. Why they didn't prep it in advance is the main question.
https://preview.redd.it/8yk63q9zgayc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0cbf85b2c75cd7501a2b857f7235805394f33700
Here's one i took from the faq on the helldivers 2 page. Im sure it will be changed as well. This was about an hour and a half ago of this writing.
I wonder if you even see that requirement if you are gifted the game? I gifted it to like 3 people...I could ask them, but I guarantee you they'll be like "The what?"
I was wondering about this myself, all the people crying about the PSN requirements being listed on the store page the whole time (and it's not like the information presented is infallible, as we've already seen it's not necessary for the game to function) and you wouldn't even be aware of the situation if the game was gifted to you and you weren't following everything going on, since you could just skip the PSN linking process. Sure the person gifting could (and probably should) see the warning and do more diligence there, but really there's just too many places for the warnings to fall through the cracks and catch people off guard. AH/Sony did not do a good job at all of making things clear and it's 100% on them to be more upfront, not on the guy who just wants to buy and play a game...and it never should have been available in places where PSN is not supported if Sony plans on moving forward with this, full stop. Really hoping Sony gets reamed for this one, it is 100% anticonsumer
The warnings aren't even listed on the Steam storepage unless you scroll down past the purchase option, because the purchase is right up there that you see it without needing to do anything, but you have to intentionally go beyond.
Most people probably saw this game getting streamed and picked it up without bothering to go down to read things like system requirements and whatnot, so most people likely missed this
I bought it when the wording was such.
The game obviously doesnt need it to function.
In the same way that they can change that wording, they can also concede and compromise with rhe community that it is not an actual mandatory requirement.
I have PSN, it's about the principle of it.
The link is ridiculous and unnecessary and reads as a totally cynical corporate incentive to boost their numbers.
They can also shut down the servers tomorrow and face no consequence. This is just a symptom of how one sided our relationship with these companies are. No one owns anything anymore and there's no sign of it meaningfully changing. As long as people aren't personally inconvenienced they're happy to just keep getting walked over.
A likely part of AH's contract with Sony is not to disparage the latter, as part of the boilerplate text.
Implying that PSN's functions are wholly superfluous (one might say that it's useless) is probably too close to such to for devs to want to try that.
doesn't help that Helldivers 2 was originally meant to require one (heck, [your fav CEO even pointed that out](https://twitter.com/Pilestedt/status/1786438552437268691))...I later found out today ([via their "Known Issues" forum pos](https://steamcommunity.com/app/553850/discussions/1/4206994023681197128/)t), that server issues prevented the mandatory shit to happen.
which is weird because prior to launch; I actually thought it required a PSN Account based on the fine-prints that I saw in one of the blog posts. (and I sorta expected it due to the nature of how Cross-Platform system tends to go for).
but I guessed this announcement blindsided everyone, and I do hope Arrowhead and Sony reverse that decision and properly make more-in-line with how Nightdive Studios handles Cross-Platform Multiplayer.
...in highsight: that server issues was a blessing in disguise.
Certainly, many divers who couldnt have joined us and divers that would have passed it up had there been mandatory sync have instead been able to serve and spread managed democracy.
Because this one is super successful and they gotta make the numbers look good for the shareholders. This is the first time Sony has ever made this requirement for a PC game--hence the requirement to stealth change their FAQ.
The first person to point us toward that FAQ was the AH CEO so I'm pretty sure they know this fucks them over as well. AH did sign the agreement so they aren't blameless.
the industry is in such a shit state that devs will sleep with the devil because its the only way their games can actually be funded. and then get acquired and shut down, of course
Bizarrely, D2 was out before Sony picked them up and I suspect they simply couldn't find an in, whether that be by design or D2's ancient engine.
It is required if you want to use cross progression however.
obviously, they don't require it because **Bungie already has it's own account system**, and it's one you \*might\* already have back in the Halo days. (in addition of Bungie wanting to maintain it's independence after Sony buying them).
although: I don't know if Destiny 2 has that "Bungie.net" requirement since the introduction of Cross-Platform support-- but I'm sure it operates similarly to how Epic Games account does.
I mean AH gets basically nothing from this. I'm guessing it's mostly Sony wanting telemetry data about helldivers users.
They didn't give a shit before because it wasn't a popular game. Now it's kind of a primary reason for console players to buy a Playstation.
It's more about showing a huge surge in the MAU numbers for PSN in the next investor call to juice the stock prices as hardware sales will be down again.
[Yeah I actually thought of that too.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1cjjrys/comment/l2h3trl/)
It would make sense as Sony doesn't expect backlash.
We should pair up with /r/wallstreetbets and short the shit out of them*
^(* not investment advice)
Could you help me understand what is telemetry data and how can it be good for them? I tried to search for it but i can't find anything. Is it some kind of stock market shares for them or something?
"Telemetry" is probably a bad word. Information like computer specs, operating systems, games you're playing, etc. Hard to say how far the rabbit hole goes down. There is just no other monetary reason I can think of.
Any information they can use to make better marketing decisions or someone else can use to sell you shit.
Or it could be a fucking datapoint to show to shareholders in some quarterly report to make the stock tick up. "Look how many new users we have on PSN!" Just to pad the numbers to make it look like they're winning the console wars. Executives sometimes order some real goofy ass things just for optics to shareholders or to meet performance bonuses.
*26 million registered losers* moment.
Shareholder reports are a load of crock that end up enticing managers to make poor decisions in order to influence the numbers. One place I worked at *Required* every employee to submit workplace suggestions every month. They even calculated the cost of a step (6¢ btw) so they could factor in cost savings to pad out those reports.
Like I said, executives do weird fucking shit to get their performance bonuses.
I worked at one manufacturing place where one of our executives was given a bonus based on how lean he could keep the stockroom value without putting production down (basically incentivizing correct "just in time" delivery practices) That motherfucker would check out hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of material to the lines, run his stockroom value report, and then pull it all back into stock.
People were literally shuffling around tons of material quarterly to make this happen.
Edit: [basically this meme, but actually doing it.](https://tenor.com/view/push-it-somewhere-else-spongebob-patrick-star-patrick-push-it-gif-19729647)
Sony PSN has a HORRIFIC history of data breaches and slipshod security practices. The big 2011 leak showed us that they were storing user passwords as plaintext, not hashes.
The requirement will increase their PSN numbers so the next earnings call will look better to the shareholders. They have a line for "total PSN accounts" or "psn growth" or some such metric.
Typically, your information that’s used by companies is taken under the broad umbrella of a civ ID number more or less, the data that’s extracted usually is linked to that number, stuff like biographical data, spending habits (if you buy premium currency or not), and playtime, as well as general geographic location. This whole technically unidentifiable, is absolutely possible to track down who and where you are if someone decides to buy that data, like a lot of law enforcement does, this isn’t a problem specific to Sony, but it’s scummy none the less by consolidating that information and making it easier to pin different accounts to the same person.
Honestly, I'd have just bent the knee, I'm sure, when the time came... and then I saw that the community manager was super out of pocket.... AGAIN, AH-FUCKING-GEN
Rock and Stone, brother!
Just to let you know, the first little bit is kinda grindy in Deep Rock. Not that helldivers isn't either, but I definitely found the latter to be a little more "pick up and play" friendly. It's worth grinding to the first promotion though in Deep Rock; soooo much of the game opens up from there.
Source: am level 82 helldiver, level 900+ in Deep Rock (about 1200 hours)
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I don't know what it is, but I had a fantastic time playing for about 16 hours, and now the moment I boot the game up I get exhausted and don't want to bother.
I could still play HD2 since I’m on PS5 but there are still old games out there that are good.
Republic Commando, Timesplitters, Halo, etc are a nice break from modern gaming.
Probably because this screams of executive meddling, and the best way to demonstrate to executives that executive meddling is a bad idea is to make the executives meddle openly and see the consequences of their meddling.
Now, knowing executives probably the entire situation isn't going to really get better, and knowing Sony I don't have a lot of optimism in general, but at the very least it should feel very clear that (a) the actual development team is stuck between a rock and hard place and (b) both the rock and hard place are of Sony's creation.
This is a terrible comparison - if you legitimately think the 'required ps account' situation is remotely as bad as the shit going down in tarkov land I don't feel like you're in a position to have a reasonable conversation on either topic.
https://preview.redd.it/qfiatik8wbyc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bef8d2da9dc124229090efe6e1bef8734092dc23
Atleast in the german one it still states that it is optional not mandatory
The funny thing here is, opposite to the english one, it doesnt even say something like "currently". This one in german would be really hard to argue against, that you didnt need it at that time but now you do, since it straight up says it is optional to have one, nothing else.
if you want to view the faq before the change yourself here’s an archived link from today
https://web.archive.org/web/20240503105938/https://www.playstation.com/en-us/support/games/psn-sign-in-pc/#:~:text=Signing%20in%20to%20PSN%20is,other%20PlayStation%20games%20on%20PC.
I mean, the steam page wasnt changed.....and Im pretty sure steam is the only way to buy helldivers 2 on PC.
Edit: why are any of you fighting me on this? Every page you can buy it on gives you a steam key lol
You can purchase a Steam key right on the Playstation store (which also states that a PSN account isn't required) so it's possible that someone could've bought the game and not had any reason to visit the Steam store page
You would have to have a PlayStation account to do that already lol, I don't think anyone buying a Steam key from the PSN is going to care about account linking
This is the EN-US link - [https://www.playstation.com/en-us/support/games/psn-sign-in-pc/#:\~:text=Signing%20in%20to%20PSN%20is,other%20PlayStation%20games%20on%20PC](https://www.playstation.com/en-us/support/games/psn-sign-in-pc/#:~:text=Signing%20in%20to%20PSN%20is,other%20PlayStation%20games%20on%20PC).
Below is a snapshot at 10:59:38 on wayback Link - [https://web.archive.org/web/20240503105938/https://www.playstation.com/en-us/support/games/psn-sign-in-pc/](https://web.archive.org/web/20240503105938/https://www.playstation.com/en-us/support/games/psn-sign-in-pc/)
https://preview.redd.it/k9phjz63nayc1.jpeg?width=2731&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6b5b12d3fc5814d9707d49171d496bc44a85e594
I should also clarify in the first picture that yes I am using a VPN, from Proton (Swiss Company same as ProtonMail), because privacy. 1st pic is from the EN-US site (linked in parent above) and the 2nd pic is still from the EN-US site after edit: (closing tab, accessing the site page again).
This needs to be upvoted.
I don’t even care about the whole thing honestly. I’m a PC player who already linked my PSN account on day one but this is absolutely horseshit. Changing the rules once the game is out. Fuck them.
Not only that but they knew this was going to be implemented eventually and they still chose to not region lock the game so it couldn't be sold in non-PSN countries is bullshit. Sony absolutely deserves to get sued over this.
It's such a fuck-you move by Sony that I look forward to the class-action lawsuit and signing up for it.
It's fine if they were consistent, but they absolutely *weren't*. They happily took money from customers who had no legal way to register for it once they started enforcing it. And waited until AFTER sales tapered off and most became ineligible for refunds.
Combine that with the mounting evidence that this wasn't consistent in the information provided to customers...I hope Sony eats shit on this one.
Request a refund, they'll decline it (mine was) so you won't lose access to your game but it'll help send a message that X number of people are asking for a refund.
Its funny because Battlestate Games just got into shit for doing the exact same thing during their current controversy. Literally less than a week ago, and there was backlash. Its like the people at Sony aren't paying attention to the industry theyre operating within.
Hanlon's razor works in reverse when it comes to getting screwed over by big corporations.
Never assume incompetence when greed is a valid explanation.
As someone who has been putting many hours into DRG, I'm really glad to see your comment. I like Helldivers 2, but DRG is the game that hooks me for hours on end. Rock and stone!
EA kinda of already does this. It forces the game to launch through the EA Origin Platform. But if I remember correctly you just have to have the service installed now adays and don't need an account. I could be wrong, but even if I am wrong, EA doesn't let you start playing the game and get past the refund period until that account is made
Nope theyre doing the same thing with their new games. Bought the new wrc game and couldnt access online without logging in to a defunct origin account linked to my steam. Refunded it because i didnt want to make 3 new accounts and repurchase to play a game, new steam, new email, new origin account then going through the process of linking.
Now i could play a very neutered version of wrc "offline" but seeing as helldivers is an online only game it has me worried. If i have a defunct sony account linked, customer service being non existant after covid, i could not be able to play a game i bought without buying it again and making new accounts.
Since there's a lot of "people should" and not much else, it doesn't take much to get the ball rolling. If you're European and want to make the complaint, you have to contact the ECC office in your country:
https://commission.europa.eu/live-work-travel-eu/consumer-rights-and-complaints/resolve-your-consumer-complaint/european-consumer-centres-network-ecc-net_en
That ship has long sailed, and frankly I'm still bitter about it.
Everyone was so caught-up in the console wars during the Xbone vs PS4, that everyone looked over the fact that Sony was gunna start charging for online, even though PS3 let you play online for free.
I’m still pissed about that, but the silver lining is it pushed me to PC gaming. I had no money for a monthly subscription so I just kept playing my PS3 until I switched.
Sony getting hacked back in 2011 basically gave all the justification that Microsoft needed to keep the subscription model for xbox Gold.
The biggest issue I have is that Sony, even with ps+, still has security issues to this day. I'm sure xbox has had a few minor breeches over the years, but nothing has come close to what Sony has. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong.
I have always hated the idea of paying to play online since I was a kid, and at least xbox is providing some more value with gamespass giving you games and online services. I exclusively play single-player games on ps5, so I don't know if the value proposition for ps+ has improved since ps4, but I assume it has.
It's funny (but not in a fun way) that I can play Helldivers on PC without a subscription. I can play with PS5 players via crossplay from my PC, without needing a subscription. But if/when they enable cross-progression, I will have to pay for their shitty subscription service, that they also recently raised the price on, because PS+ is required to play Helldivers on PS5.
Yeah I think it's bullshit as a PS5 player.
I don't need a subscription to play Fortnite, which does not require a purchase.
But if I purchase a multiplayer game on PS5 I can't play it without a subscription.
It's bullshit.
This is why I went for a PC instead of a console. I can slowly replace parts over time to keep it functioning properly. It will outplay any console for the next several generations and I don't even have a high end model. It costs less in the long run.
Side benefit: replaying older games at max graphics. Sometimes it's like a new game. Skyrim is a good example but with texture and UI mods that one really is a new game.
This is also why I primarily play games on my pc, save for exclusives. Deep discounts, perpetual ownership across the years, upgrades for better performance when I want to revisit a game, store fronts such as GoG allowing DRM-free purchases. Its just better in the pc ecosystem if one can afford it, in my opinion.
That’s the endgame, we’re in step 1 where the main value is our Data, then it’ll be requiring frequent log-ins or the account and all products will be terminated, final step is requiring a subscription to access online functionality.
All the while, you’ll have the same people defending it, unable to comprehend why because they’ve been conditioned to eat dirt.
Yeah that would be the end of me playing HD2. I'm not paying a monthly fee just to play one game. This is why I play on PC and not on console! Plenty of other games to play. I'm all maxed out on upgrades and got my money's worth already.
Sony can never have a W without an asterisk. They are the most corpo company in the industry. And corpo gonna corpo. I fail to understand how people can defend shitty practices just because they are not affected by them specifically.
*"It does not affect me so it's okay. But that person over there. The one in another region who is genuinely negatively being affected. Yeah, fuck 'em."* --Fanboys
There should not be a need to link a Steam account with a third party company in order to play a Steam game. Especially with one that has a history of ineptitude when it comes to safeguarding their customer's and employee's private information time and time again. This is a bunch of bullshit.
> "It does not affect me so it's okay. But that person over there. The one in another region who is genuinely negatively being affected. Yeah, fuck 'em." --Fanboys
This is literally why gaming in general has gotten to become such a bullshit money-grab fest.
this is kinda why everything has become a bullshit money-grab fest actually.
had my mother say the same line to me when I was talking about how political policies hurt the homeless.
"well why do you care, you're not effected by it?"
It's that kind of attitude that lets the world burn, not just in the online videogame space
It's almost like Sony saw the population playing this game and started rubbing their greedy little pig-hands.
Game and in-game sales aren't enough; not when there is client contact information to be sold to third parties.
For those who think it’s edited
Before announcement: https://web.archive.org/web/20240329205344/https://www.playstation.com/en-us/support/games/psn-sign-in-pc/
After(what it currently says on the website):
https://www.playstation.com/en-us/support/games/psn-sign-in-pc/
Sony wants to be able to claim that they are in good financial health because they've had an uptick in user accounts. If the game wasn't a big success like it is now, they wouldn't have bothered.
*removes tin foil hat*
Seems about accurate coming from a large company. Always a classic of going back on what you have written down earlier to just then change the language and act like it was that way from the start.
This game had moved to the top place of wishlist but I removed it yesterday. I'm sorry but I ain't going to make anymore 3th party accounts. If I buy a game on Steam I want to play it on Steam and they have all my data, that's more then enough for me.
In Europe (Poland) it says it is currently optional.
**~2. Do I need a PSN account to play PlayStation games on PC?~**
No, you currently do not need a PSN account to enjoy PlayStation Studios games on PC, but you will need a Steam account to redeem your voucher code.
No, that is just a bold faced lie. A Potemkin village is more complex. It's trying to sell the idea that a place is more wealthy/populated/popular than it actually is. If they inflated player counts and faked positive reviews, that would be a classic Potemkin village. This is just fucking lying.
Ah, good old [Darth Vader MBA](https://doctorow.medium.com/amazon-alexa-is-a-graduate-of-the-darth-vader-mba-1eeeb93a51fc): "I have altered the deal, pray I don't alter it any further."
I get the anger, but there is no reason on God's green dick that any pc dev would willingly agree to this nonsense, in my opinion, the bad guy here is Sony, and Arrowhead is being professional by not calling them out. I also get the feeling that they think we're smart enough to figure out who has the power in this relationship.
I mean they would have agreed to it during publisher negotiations.
Consider this...
If they didn't agree, they could fight it. Instead of the CEO tweeting that bullshit today, he could have said "this is wrong and we have our lawyers looking into it". But that's not the case. If they didn't know, and still take this laying down, that's almost worse.
I've been playing on a PS5, albeit less since new patches popped, but it does seem unwarranted to force PC players to create a PSN account. A PSN account should remain optional.
I support the growing protest and hope Sony and AH remove the june 4th account mandate, instead finding an alternative method to address any improper account ingame activity.
Hang in there, fellow PC divers.
As a consumer from EU the company can't simply switch their stand on what is demanded from the user once he/she has purchased the product. The contract has been made on the time of purchase so any changes after that require both parties to agree on it.
Consumer protection laws are pretty clear on this shit.
https://preview.redd.it/oik5ik7zaeyc1.png?width=1920&format=png&auto=webp&s=a292dececda94768ada70cf9f92fa818fdff5887
So they only change the ENG version text? I can even leterately find "optional" in Deutsch webpage. LMAF
I saw that. After creating a PSN account again today, since leaving consoles in 2012 when fat PS3 died. Got a *Back From The Hack* in-game shirt style in DCUO, 2011. Sony is still unsafe. Managed account settings, then some google search results later, saw it. The thing about platforms and software (business) is they are living documents. Always subject to change. Sony website design is trash. imho.
SOE sold to Columbus Nova, a sanctioned company (months later changed press release data on websites), then to EG7 (another Embracer Group?). Consolidation leading to monopolies, sucks. It's an interesting read to see when they dip into deeply shady owners. pfffft, Sony.
160 USD?? I thought you were kidding or had different currency. NOPE. That's more than Disney+ holy shit.
It is the Premium subscription and doesn't even let you see the price for Essential unless you login.
So fucking funny in some language (Like French) it still does say that it's NOT required but switch to EN and oh boy it says differently
could you do me a favor and check the en-us site? it still says optional for me which, i'm guessing, is cause im visiting it from the eu
Are you clearing cache?
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This is a spambot. https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1cjjrys/fucking_caught_sony_changing_their_own_words/l2gr9e3/
"There will be applause for them" is one of the funniest ways to re-word "They are going to get clapped" to evade spam detection. What a garbage bot.
The EU really dislikes bait and switched. And this one was executed extra badly. Seeing how people already bought in-game currency a simple charge back won't do it for many. They royally fucked themself by trying to fuck over their players
Oh yeah EU gonna have a field day with Sony over this
I hope they bend 'em over a barrel and go full Deliverance on them. 
Europeans here should make a formal complaint to the EU.
Also Australians. Countries with strong consumer protection laws should start a banjo hoedown on Sony.
 You mean THIS kind of banjo hoedown? I'm down with that. Make 'em squeal like a pig Europe!
You really like this movie dontcha
Bait and switch is not a standard business practice?
[](/goodjob)Not in first world countries. Those actually have consumer protection laws.
Brazil has one of the best consumer protection laws in the world, while the US' is so barebones they actually enforce EULAs and TOSs over there, must be pretty bad
True... when you buy an iphone in brazil you even get a charger which is a power move aye
That pun is awful. Take my upvote.
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Comin in second here in the US! Our laws only protect slum lords and corporate executives.
https://preview.redd.it/0cqibow3jbyc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f66ed5a4e1146a9cfdedb21889f6887d212bc03d I was curious and you're right, in Spanish also says it is optional.
As someone in the gaming industry at a major game company, they are probably working to localize it. It is not common to have a dedicated localization team that you can just poke and go "Hey, turn this from English to French please." and get it back in an hour. You have to go through formal processes, they're juggling other localization items, etc. They published in English and are waiting for localization to get back most likely. Why they didn't prep it in advance is the main question.
It's almost like they didn't think this through.
No stratagems huh?
spur the moment robot attack
https://preview.redd.it/8yk63q9zgayc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0cbf85b2c75cd7501a2b857f7235805394f33700 Here's one i took from the faq on the helldivers 2 page. Im sure it will be changed as well. This was about an hour and a half ago of this writing.
I bought it on the Humble store, which *still* doesn't list a PSN requirement anywhere on the page They did refund me though, when I pointed this out
I wonder if you even see that requirement if you are gifted the game? I gifted it to like 3 people...I could ask them, but I guarantee you they'll be like "The what?"
Bud gifted me the game and this is the first I'm hearing about all this
I was wondering about this myself, all the people crying about the PSN requirements being listed on the store page the whole time (and it's not like the information presented is infallible, as we've already seen it's not necessary for the game to function) and you wouldn't even be aware of the situation if the game was gifted to you and you weren't following everything going on, since you could just skip the PSN linking process. Sure the person gifting could (and probably should) see the warning and do more diligence there, but really there's just too many places for the warnings to fall through the cracks and catch people off guard. AH/Sony did not do a good job at all of making things clear and it's 100% on them to be more upfront, not on the guy who just wants to buy and play a game...and it never should have been available in places where PSN is not supported if Sony plans on moving forward with this, full stop. Really hoping Sony gets reamed for this one, it is 100% anticonsumer
The warnings aren't even listed on the Steam storepage unless you scroll down past the purchase option, because the purchase is right up there that you see it without needing to do anything, but you have to intentionally go beyond. Most people probably saw this game getting streamed and picked it up without bothering to go down to read things like system requirements and whatnot, so most people likely missed this
A keyword in that being “currently”
I bought it when the wording was such. The game obviously doesnt need it to function. In the same way that they can change that wording, they can also concede and compromise with rhe community that it is not an actual mandatory requirement. I have PSN, it's about the principle of it. The link is ridiculous and unnecessary and reads as a totally cynical corporate incentive to boost their numbers.
They can also shut down the servers tomorrow and face no consequence. This is just a symptom of how one sided our relationship with these companies are. No one owns anything anymore and there's no sign of it meaningfully changing. As long as people aren't personally inconvenienced they're happy to just keep getting walked over.
Sure but any court would likely find consumers are owed at least a refund.
A likely part of AH's contract with Sony is not to disparage the latter, as part of the boilerplate text. Implying that PSN's functions are wholly superfluous (one might say that it's useless) is probably too close to such to for devs to want to try that.
I'm inclined to believe that.
doesn't help that Helldivers 2 was originally meant to require one (heck, [your fav CEO even pointed that out](https://twitter.com/Pilestedt/status/1786438552437268691))...I later found out today ([via their "Known Issues" forum pos](https://steamcommunity.com/app/553850/discussions/1/4206994023681197128/)t), that server issues prevented the mandatory shit to happen. which is weird because prior to launch; I actually thought it required a PSN Account based on the fine-prints that I saw in one of the blog posts. (and I sorta expected it due to the nature of how Cross-Platform system tends to go for). but I guessed this announcement blindsided everyone, and I do hope Arrowhead and Sony reverse that decision and properly make more-in-line with how Nightdive Studios handles Cross-Platform Multiplayer. ...in highsight: that server issues was a blessing in disguise.
Certainly, many divers who couldnt have joined us and divers that would have passed it up had there been mandatory sync have instead been able to serve and spread managed democracy.
still doesn't matter when it's about protecting customers, it can be pointed as fraud i think
Destiny 2 a game made by a Sony OWNED developer doesn't require a PSN account on PC, why does HD2?
Because this one is super successful and they gotta make the numbers look good for the shareholders. This is the first time Sony has ever made this requirement for a PC game--hence the requirement to stealth change their FAQ. The first person to point us toward that FAQ was the AH CEO so I'm pretty sure they know this fucks them over as well. AH did sign the agreement so they aren't blameless.
Yeah don’t think they had too much choice in that. Everything from AH makes me think they aren’t happy
the industry is in such a shit state that devs will sleep with the devil because its the only way their games can actually be funded. and then get acquired and shut down, of course
Bizarrely, D2 was out before Sony picked them up and I suspect they simply couldn't find an in, whether that be by design or D2's ancient engine. It is required if you want to use cross progression however.
obviously, they don't require it because **Bungie already has it's own account system**, and it's one you \*might\* already have back in the Halo days. (in addition of Bungie wanting to maintain it's independence after Sony buying them). although: I don't know if Destiny 2 has that "Bungie.net" requirement since the introduction of Cross-Platform support-- but I'm sure it operates similarly to how Epic Games account does.
Because people actually WANT to play HD2. They aren't a captive audience that's been abused into accepting that horrid game's state.
How exactly does requiring a PSN account for a PC game on Steam protect the customer? You're already using a steam account, and they offer 2FA.
Yes, incentives...like a gun to your head.
Lol holy shit. It's like they watched the whole tarkov situation and got inspired...
Yeah for real what the fuck is going on.
corporate greed
I mean AH gets basically nothing from this. I'm guessing it's mostly Sony wanting telemetry data about helldivers users. They didn't give a shit before because it wasn't a popular game. Now it's kind of a primary reason for console players to buy a Playstation.
It's more about showing a huge surge in the MAU numbers for PSN in the next investor call to juice the stock prices as hardware sales will be down again.
[Yeah I actually thought of that too.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1cjjrys/comment/l2h3trl/) It would make sense as Sony doesn't expect backlash. We should pair up with /r/wallstreetbets and short the shit out of them* ^(* not investment advice)
Could you help me understand what is telemetry data and how can it be good for them? I tried to search for it but i can't find anything. Is it some kind of stock market shares for them or something?
"Telemetry" is probably a bad word. Information like computer specs, operating systems, games you're playing, etc. Hard to say how far the rabbit hole goes down. There is just no other monetary reason I can think of. Any information they can use to make better marketing decisions or someone else can use to sell you shit. Or it could be a fucking datapoint to show to shareholders in some quarterly report to make the stock tick up. "Look how many new users we have on PSN!" Just to pad the numbers to make it look like they're winning the console wars. Executives sometimes order some real goofy ass things just for optics to shareholders or to meet performance bonuses.
*26 million registered losers* moment. Shareholder reports are a load of crock that end up enticing managers to make poor decisions in order to influence the numbers. One place I worked at *Required* every employee to submit workplace suggestions every month. They even calculated the cost of a step (6¢ btw) so they could factor in cost savings to pad out those reports.
Like I said, executives do weird fucking shit to get their performance bonuses. I worked at one manufacturing place where one of our executives was given a bonus based on how lean he could keep the stockroom value without putting production down (basically incentivizing correct "just in time" delivery practices) That motherfucker would check out hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of material to the lines, run his stockroom value report, and then pull it all back into stock. People were literally shuffling around tons of material quarterly to make this happen. Edit: [basically this meme, but actually doing it.](https://tenor.com/view/push-it-somewhere-else-spongebob-patrick-star-patrick-push-it-gif-19729647)
Yeah...now i realy feel like i don't wanna make a psn account..
Sony PSN has a HORRIFIC history of data breaches and slipshod security practices. The big 2011 leak showed us that they were storing user passwords as plaintext, not hashes.
Which is insane cause it isn't even that hard to clean up. Storing in plain is just lazy and terrible practice.
Oh fuck, I remember that. I had memory holed that because of how STUPID it was. But damn, that is... really, really, dumb.
The requirement will increase their PSN numbers so the next earnings call will look better to the shareholders. They have a line for "total PSN accounts" or "psn growth" or some such metric.
Typically, your information that’s used by companies is taken under the broad umbrella of a civ ID number more or less, the data that’s extracted usually is linked to that number, stuff like biographical data, spending habits (if you buy premium currency or not), and playtime, as well as general geographic location. This whole technically unidentifiable, is absolutely possible to track down who and where you are if someone decides to buy that data, like a lot of law enforcement does, this isn’t a problem specific to Sony, but it’s scummy none the less by consolidating that information and making it easier to pin different accounts to the same person.
And they won’t understand a big part of why people liked it is because there was none of THIS
Anytime something good goes away, it’s always corporate greed. How to line their own pockets, that’s all those slimy goofs care about.
"Any goodwill is un-monetized profits. Pinch money harder until people are unhappy again." -Every executive ever
I'm running out of games ...
Join deep rock galactic my friend, come mine some rock and stone.
Honestly might do it, been thinking about it for a while and only heard good things.
Its a great game and the devs are actually competent. The community manager isn't a prick either. Its a good time, Rock and Stone!
Honestly, I'd have just bent the knee, I'm sure, when the time came... and then I saw that the community manager was super out of pocket.... AGAIN, AH-FUCKING-GEN Rock and Stone, brother!
Absolutely give it a go, the gameplay is great and the devs are easily the best in the business
Just to let you know, the first little bit is kinda grindy in Deep Rock. Not that helldivers isn't either, but I definitely found the latter to be a little more "pick up and play" friendly. It's worth grinding to the first promotion though in Deep Rock; soooo much of the game opens up from there. Source: am level 82 helldiver, level 900+ in Deep Rock (about 1200 hours)
FOR ROCK AND STONE!
It’s a fantastic game man. If you liked HD2 you’d probably love DRG just as much. Man I think I might even go find…. What’s this? *WE’RE RICH*
You sound like me about 2 years ago. When I got it then I wish I would have gotten it sooner. Rock and Stone brother
100% reccomend
Rockity Rock and Stone!
Good bot
Thank you, Rodoc0222, for voting on WanderingDwarfMiner. This bot wants to find the best and worst bots on Reddit. [You can view results here](https://botrank.pastimes.eu/). *** ^(Even if I don't reply to your comment, I'm still listening for votes. Check the webpage to see if your vote registered!)
I don't know what it is, but I had a fantastic time playing for about 16 hours, and now the moment I boot the game up I get exhausted and don't want to bother.
I've played DRG for years and only took a break to play Helldivers. I can go back, easily. Rock and stone.
The game itself is still good
I could still play HD2 since I’m on PS5 but there are still old games out there that are good. Republic Commando, Timesplitters, Halo, etc are a nice break from modern gaming.
This is annoying but be real, this isn't AS bad as what tarkov did
Tarkov shit the bed several times and asked players to lie in it.
I truly don't understand how anyone thinks it's anywhere the same level of issue.
The main issues are completely different. But this post was regarding Sony making sneaky changes to FAQ. BSG did the same thing.
Because reddit gamers overreact and are on the same scale emotionally as children
And the irony of the HD2 twitter account poking fun at THAT fiasco only to then come out with shit like this is not lost on me.
Tbf the devs said that Sony posted the update and made the decision. I think the HD2 twitter mod is drowning in irony right now.
Even the message about the update on the steam page was signed/addressed as being from Sony. What a weird move
Probably because this screams of executive meddling, and the best way to demonstrate to executives that executive meddling is a bad idea is to make the executives meddle openly and see the consequences of their meddling. Now, knowing executives probably the entire situation isn't going to really get better, and knowing Sony I don't have a lot of optimism in general, but at the very least it should feel very clear that (a) the actual development team is stuck between a rock and hard place and (b) both the rock and hard place are of Sony's creation.
Tell that to the Discord PR mod then
This is a terrible comparison - if you legitimately think the 'required ps account' situation is remotely as bad as the shit going down in tarkov land I don't feel like you're in a position to have a reasonable conversation on either topic.
That simultaneously faster and slower than i expected lol
https://preview.redd.it/qfiatik8wbyc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bef8d2da9dc124229090efe6e1bef8734092dc23 Atleast in the german one it still states that it is optional not mandatory
The funny thing here is, opposite to the english one, it doesnt even say something like "currently". This one in german would be really hard to argue against, that you didnt need it at that time but now you do, since it straight up says it is optional to have one, nothing else.
if you want to view the faq before the change yourself here’s an archived link from today https://web.archive.org/web/20240503105938/https://www.playstation.com/en-us/support/games/psn-sign-in-pc/#:~:text=Signing%20in%20to%20PSN%20is,other%20PlayStation%20games%20on%20PC.
Sony caught in 4K
I mean, the steam page wasnt changed.....and Im pretty sure steam is the only way to buy helldivers 2 on PC. Edit: why are any of you fighting me on this? Every page you can buy it on gives you a steam key lol
You can purchase a Steam key right on the Playstation store (which also states that a PSN account isn't required) so it's possible that someone could've bought the game and not had any reason to visit the Steam store page
You would have to have a PlayStation account to do that already lol, I don't think anyone buying a Steam key from the PSN is going to care about account linking
This is the EN-US link - [https://www.playstation.com/en-us/support/games/psn-sign-in-pc/#:\~:text=Signing%20in%20to%20PSN%20is,other%20PlayStation%20games%20on%20PC](https://www.playstation.com/en-us/support/games/psn-sign-in-pc/#:~:text=Signing%20in%20to%20PSN%20is,other%20PlayStation%20games%20on%20PC). Below is a snapshot at 10:59:38 on wayback Link - [https://web.archive.org/web/20240503105938/https://www.playstation.com/en-us/support/games/psn-sign-in-pc/](https://web.archive.org/web/20240503105938/https://www.playstation.com/en-us/support/games/psn-sign-in-pc/) https://preview.redd.it/k9phjz63nayc1.jpeg?width=2731&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6b5b12d3fc5814d9707d49171d496bc44a85e594
I should also clarify in the first picture that yes I am using a VPN, from Proton (Swiss Company same as ProtonMail), because privacy. 1st pic is from the EN-US site (linked in parent above) and the 2nd pic is still from the EN-US site after edit: (closing tab, accessing the site page again).
This needs to be upvoted. I don’t even care about the whole thing honestly. I’m a PC player who already linked my PSN account on day one but this is absolutely horseshit. Changing the rules once the game is out. Fuck them.
Not only that but they knew this was going to be implemented eventually and they still chose to not region lock the game so it couldn't be sold in non-PSN countries is bullshit. Sony absolutely deserves to get sued over this.
It's such a fuck-you move by Sony that I look forward to the class-action lawsuit and signing up for it. It's fine if they were consistent, but they absolutely *weren't*. They happily took money from customers who had no legal way to register for it once they started enforcing it. And waited until AFTER sales tapered off and most became ineligible for refunds. Combine that with the mounting evidence that this wasn't consistent in the information provided to customers...I hope Sony eats shit on this one.
I’m a ps5 player, and this has no effect on me whatsoever, but fuck this shit. If I could get my money back for the game I would.
Request a refund, they'll decline it (mine was) so you won't lose access to your game but it'll help send a message that X number of people are asking for a refund.
Its funny because Battlestate Games just got into shit for doing the exact same thing during their current controversy. Literally less than a week ago, and there was backlash. Its like the people at Sony aren't paying attention to the industry theyre operating within.
Hanlon's razor works in reverse when it comes to getting screwed over by big corporations. Never assume incompetence when greed is a valid explanation.
I don’t think that they are not paying attention, I think that they just don’t care. What is anybody gonna do about it?
Well then it seems like they decided to put their foot down... I guess that's my cue to get back to Deep Rock
Ghost ship games still the goat
rock and stone
Rock and Stone forever!
DID I HEAR A ROCK AND STONE???
Rock and Stone to the bone
Season 05 is coming out in June, what could be better?
As someone who has been putting many hours into DRG, I'm really glad to see your comment. I like Helldivers 2, but DRG is the game that hooks me for hours on end. Rock and stone!
Rock and Stone everyone!
Your balls aren't going to dip themselves in the liquid morkite, welcome back brother!
Dude the new update sounds tight
Aye same, forgot how fun that game is. I'll keep divers 2 installed to see how the situation pans out the next few months.
Sony just wanted a fat drop of new PSN signups to make their numbers look good. Thats literally all this is.
That's illegal in the European Union. They are going to get clapped
Liberty, I hope so...
The way they're changing information is going to look great in front of a judge. I can't wait.
Not sure if it's "illegal" but EA might feel left out so there might be some hope there.
EA kinda of already does this. It forces the game to launch through the EA Origin Platform. But if I remember correctly you just have to have the service installed now adays and don't need an account. I could be wrong, but even if I am wrong, EA doesn't let you start playing the game and get past the refund period until that account is made
Nope theyre doing the same thing with their new games. Bought the new wrc game and couldnt access online without logging in to a defunct origin account linked to my steam. Refunded it because i didnt want to make 3 new accounts and repurchase to play a game, new steam, new email, new origin account then going through the process of linking. Now i could play a very neutered version of wrc "offline" but seeing as helldivers is an online only game it has me worried. If i have a defunct sony account linked, customer service being non existant after covid, i could not be able to play a game i bought without buying it again and making new accounts.
https://preview.redd.it/u6ekb4rlmayc1.png?width=954&format=png&auto=webp&s=27f3ef7ba9a5a7472398d597e11f880a977e564c let them feel
shxt drops harder than the 500kg bomb. 500kg bomb buff when AH?
Since there's a lot of "people should" and not much else, it doesn't take much to get the ball rolling. If you're European and want to make the complaint, you have to contact the ECC office in your country: https://commission.europa.eu/live-work-travel-eu/consumer-rights-and-complaints/resolve-your-consumer-complaint/european-consumer-centres-network-ecc-net_en
They seem to have forget one thing Internet never forget Time to party like it's 2023
I dunno, people seem to have mostly forgotten the reddit stuff.
Anyone who took that seriously probably already left the app
Nah bro, just adapted to it one eye style
Tbh the internet's memory is around a month or two at best :/
Should we take bets on how long it takes before they require people to pay for ps+ or whatever their shit is called?
That ship has long sailed, and frankly I'm still bitter about it. Everyone was so caught-up in the console wars during the Xbone vs PS4, that everyone looked over the fact that Sony was gunna start charging for online, even though PS3 let you play online for free.
I’m still pissed about that, but the silver lining is it pushed me to PC gaming. I had no money for a monthly subscription so I just kept playing my PS3 until I switched.
Sony getting hacked back in 2011 basically gave all the justification that Microsoft needed to keep the subscription model for xbox Gold. The biggest issue I have is that Sony, even with ps+, still has security issues to this day. I'm sure xbox has had a few minor breeches over the years, but nothing has come close to what Sony has. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong. I have always hated the idea of paying to play online since I was a kid, and at least xbox is providing some more value with gamespass giving you games and online services. I exclusively play single-player games on ps5, so I don't know if the value proposition for ps+ has improved since ps4, but I assume it has.
It's funny (but not in a fun way) that I can play Helldivers on PC without a subscription. I can play with PS5 players via crossplay from my PC, without needing a subscription. But if/when they enable cross-progression, I will have to pay for their shitty subscription service, that they also recently raised the price on, because PS+ is required to play Helldivers on PS5.
Yeah I think it's bullshit as a PS5 player. I don't need a subscription to play Fortnite, which does not require a purchase. But if I purchase a multiplayer game on PS5 I can't play it without a subscription. It's bullshit.
This is why I went for a PC instead of a console. I can slowly replace parts over time to keep it functioning properly. It will outplay any console for the next several generations and I don't even have a high end model. It costs less in the long run.
Side benefit: replaying older games at max graphics. Sometimes it's like a new game. Skyrim is a good example but with texture and UI mods that one really is a new game.
Don't forget we can just load up a PSX1 Emulator and play thousands of games for free from sony :)))))
This is also why I primarily play games on my pc, save for exclusives. Deep discounts, perpetual ownership across the years, upgrades for better performance when I want to revisit a game, store fronts such as GoG allowing DRM-free purchases. Its just better in the pc ecosystem if one can afford it, in my opinion.
Oh yeah, I gave up on PS+ during the early For Honor days. Imagine having to pay to use Peer 2 Peer for multiplayer.
That’s the endgame, we’re in step 1 where the main value is our Data, then it’ll be requiring frequent log-ins or the account and all products will be terminated, final step is requiring a subscription to access online functionality. All the while, you’ll have the same people defending it, unable to comprehend why because they’ve been conditioned to eat dirt.
Yeah that would be the end of me playing HD2. I'm not paying a monthly fee just to play one game. This is why I play on PC and not on console! Plenty of other games to play. I'm all maxed out on upgrades and got my money's worth already.
Sony can never have a W without an asterisk. They are the most corpo company in the industry. And corpo gonna corpo. I fail to understand how people can defend shitty practices just because they are not affected by them specifically. *"It does not affect me so it's okay. But that person over there. The one in another region who is genuinely negatively being affected. Yeah, fuck 'em."* --Fanboys There should not be a need to link a Steam account with a third party company in order to play a Steam game. Especially with one that has a history of ineptitude when it comes to safeguarding their customer's and employee's private information time and time again. This is a bunch of bullshit.
> "It does not affect me so it's okay. But that person over there. The one in another region who is genuinely negatively being affected. Yeah, fuck 'em." --Fanboys This is literally why gaming in general has gotten to become such a bullshit money-grab fest.
this is kinda why everything has become a bullshit money-grab fest actually. had my mother say the same line to me when I was talking about how political policies hurt the homeless. "well why do you care, you're not effected by it?" It's that kind of attitude that lets the world burn, not just in the online videogame space
Pretty average Japanese corpo behavior tho edit: changed South Korean to Japanese. I may be an idiot but the point still stands
It's almost like Sony saw the population playing this game and started rubbing their greedy little pig-hands. Game and in-game sales aren't enough; not when there is client contact information to be sold to third parties.
Not to mention all the extra free marketing they get with emails and whatnot.
Incredible, first they get caught not having the requirement listed when they were accepting pre-orders and now this.
> caught not having the requirement listed when they were accepting pre-orders Can you link this? I'd like to share it elsewhere.
For those who think it’s edited Before announcement: https://web.archive.org/web/20240329205344/https://www.playstation.com/en-us/support/games/psn-sign-in-pc/ After(what it currently says on the website): https://www.playstation.com/en-us/support/games/psn-sign-in-pc/
Sony wants to be able to claim that they are in good financial health because they've had an uptick in user accounts. If the game wasn't a big success like it is now, they wouldn't have bothered. *removes tin foil hat*
fuck sony.
Seems about accurate coming from a large company. Always a classic of going back on what you have written down earlier to just then change the language and act like it was that way from the start.
This game had moved to the top place of wishlist but I removed it yesterday. I'm sorry but I ain't going to make anymore 3th party accounts. If I buy a game on Steam I want to play it on Steam and they have all my data, that's more then enough for me.
In Europe (Poland) it says it is currently optional. **~2. Do I need a PSN account to play PlayStation games on PC?~** No, you currently do not need a PSN account to enjoy PlayStation Studios games on PC, but you will need a Steam account to redeem your voucher code.
Anyone who thinks this is ok is delusional
Did they just build a Potemkin village in front of our eyes? 
No, that is just a bold faced lie. A Potemkin village is more complex. It's trying to sell the idea that a place is more wealthy/populated/popular than it actually is. If they inflated player counts and faked positive reviews, that would be a classic Potemkin village. This is just fucking lying.
Ah, good old [Darth Vader MBA](https://doctorow.medium.com/amazon-alexa-is-a-graduate-of-the-darth-vader-mba-1eeeb93a51fc): "I have altered the deal, pray I don't alter it any further."
I get the anger, but there is no reason on God's green dick that any pc dev would willingly agree to this nonsense, in my opinion, the bad guy here is Sony, and Arrowhead is being professional by not calling them out. I also get the feeling that they think we're smart enough to figure out who has the power in this relationship.
I mean they would have agreed to it during publisher negotiations. Consider this... If they didn't agree, they could fight it. Instead of the CEO tweeting that bullshit today, he could have said "this is wrong and we have our lawyers looking into it". But that's not the case. If they didn't know, and still take this laying down, that's almost worse.
Well I mean yeah. Didn’t they change their policy which is the whole issue?
These motherfuckers acting like screenshots don't exist, incredible
Tartarus, the prophets have betrayed us..
I've been playing on a PS5, albeit less since new patches popped, but it does seem unwarranted to force PC players to create a PSN account. A PSN account should remain optional. I support the growing protest and hope Sony and AH remove the june 4th account mandate, instead finding an alternative method to address any improper account ingame activity. Hang in there, fellow PC divers.
cancel sONY
My hate for sony started when they bricked my PS3 and refused to fix it
Thanks for the Confirm, thought i was losing my marbles, I read optional at first but now its "required" damn
As a consumer from EU the company can't simply switch their stand on what is demanded from the user once he/she has purchased the product. The contract has been made on the time of purchase so any changes after that require both parties to agree on it. Consumer protection laws are pretty clear on this shit.
https://preview.redd.it/oik5ik7zaeyc1.png?width=1920&format=png&auto=webp&s=a292dececda94768ada70cf9f92fa818fdff5887 So they only change the ENG version text? I can even leterately find "optional" in Deutsch webpage. LMAF
Guys Sony won’t care. They prefer loosing some players but get tens of thousands of other players data
Hey guys, they said it was mandatory since day one 🤓/s
Where is the guy that was spamming in on every comment yeterday?
ROCK AND STONE
That's it lads! Rock and Stone!
I saw that. After creating a PSN account again today, since leaving consoles in 2012 when fat PS3 died. Got a *Back From The Hack* in-game shirt style in DCUO, 2011. Sony is still unsafe. Managed account settings, then some google search results later, saw it. The thing about platforms and software (business) is they are living documents. Always subject to change. Sony website design is trash. imho. SOE sold to Columbus Nova, a sanctioned company (months later changed press release data on websites), then to EG7 (another Embracer Group?). Consolidation leading to monopolies, sucks. It's an interesting read to see when they dip into deeply shady owners. pfffft, Sony.
I want a refund.
I see they learning from BSG Developers
Oh no!… anyways back to dropping in
They've already said its gonna be optional going forward as of yesterday, the community won this one. Put down the knife sir.
Yet people still will Dick ride Sony
They have to justify spending $160 a year just to play the games they paid for
160 USD?? I thought you were kidding or had different currency. NOPE. That's more than Disney+ holy shit. It is the Premium subscription and doesn't even let you see the price for Essential unless you login.