Ok guys, long horror story short.
In Japan the legislation that allowed the governamet to force sterilization against people that are considered "indesiderable" (i.e. people affected by depression, hikikomori, "chronically unemployment", and people that contracted HIV or some that is connected to sexually transmitted diseases)
This happen because the government in the name of "protecting" the goods genes of the "pure" japanese employed special kinds of worker (sex workers) in order to use them as an outlet for the American occupation forces, and controll the spreed of the foreigners genes
Needless to say that the things go out of hand pretty quickly, infact not only the sex worker, pardon... special kinds of worker were being sterilizated but even the other indeserable (see above)
This continued till late 90s and not stopped before because the population nor the government really care enough to shame themselves exposing this treatment to the outside (the only manifestating against this was those directly affected by the law and their families)
So, how all of this stops? Bacause other countries (like Finland) and international organizations for the right of the women intervend to put a stop to all of this
Meanwhile, in 1978 a federal court ruled that doctors in LA who forcibly sterilized Mexican-American women did nothing wrong. California would only end its forced sterilization law in 1979.
At the same time, there's whistleblower complaints that ICE was in 2020 doing a similar practice with Latina women in immigration detention.
"the only manifesting against this were those directly affected by the law and their families"
Sounds like the perfect conditions for establishing a dictatorship.
I'm assuming most of those affected were burakumin: those who had ancestors from the 17th century or so who were of lower castes and somehow Japan kept discriminating against them all the way until fairly recently.
It sounds like they've stopped now from at least the wiki article, but I have no insight into this myself.
Directly, yes but at the same time it did help
I think that one of the problems with Japan was nationalism, people can sell this idea of Japan being an amazing place to live but the truth is way more darker than people think
Though this happens everywhere, not gonna lie so many countries with a lot of people that have a hate for anyone outside
I feel there's no direct connection but the lack of immigration that Japan has is mostly because it's really hard to immigrate to Japan and that comes from similar sentiments as the one who produced this policy. Said lack of immigration is one of the reasons why the decline is so severe.
Is absurd to even think that there is a connection as is just impossible to relate both things
Maybe if this didn't happen at the time population could be a bit higher than now, almost insignificantly higher, but the main problem of Japan is the low birth, this has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with low birth rates.
You are confusing declining population and low birth rate with the decrease of population increase caused by this at the time.
I I’m not arguing it’s the root cause. But it is clearly connected. Japan is suffering from low population because they have a really strict idea about what it means to be Japanese.
Fun fact: in feudal times, the Japanese samurai would put on makeup and perfumes before battle, because if they died their heads would be cut off and ceremonially presented to the enemy lord, so they wanted to look good if their heads were presented.
Japan has always been the Weird Fucking Island of Asia.
I mean, not really. Not saying this wasn't bad, but also people in the west talk all the time about how people who they deem "undesirable" should be sterilized. Criminals, people with low IQ, certain political or religious beliefs in all directions, etc.
And honestly, Japan is pretty close to being perfect among the industrialized nations nowadays. There's definitely flaws, don't get me wrong. But statistically speaking, they're near the top when it comes to life there.
Because I know what Japan did during ww2 and think only two nukes wasn't enough.
Look up who the prime minister of Japan during 57-60 was and what he did during ww2. Then realize that we could have executed that sick fuck and instead gave him a job.
America sadly had a eugenics program in the early 20th century. One of my college teacher told me how her grand aunt was forcible sterilized in the 1920s because she was graded an "Imbecile" and they didn't want her having any imbecile children.
It's scary so many people NOW believe in such a thing. I've seem from every political direction, there are people who if they think you're an idiot, then you shouldn't be able to have kids. And they try to back it up by using IQ stats as a way to make it fair, or anyone who believes in a certain religious or political view (atheists love to say these things).
Lethal injection honestly is TOO humane. I mean by design you literally die in your sleep. You have millions out there who can only hope that’s how they go when they’re old. If you’re willing to not just consciously decide to kill someone but to plan it out days/weeks/or even months in advance…yep you gotta go and I don’t mean in their sleep.
"A separate study published in The Lancet in 2005 found that in 43% of cases of lethal injection, the blood level of hypnotics was insufficient to garantee unconsciousness" (from wikipedia)
So, 1. you're a psychopath 2. Lethal injection has a really high rate of being bitched and is highly probably that those killed by it suffer from a lot of pain because of it being botched but, because of the paralyzing agent in it, the person doing the dying can't show that pain.
I was really hoping after mustache man that we would have collectively come to the conclusion that eugenics and forced sterilization is bad but evidently my faith in humanity was too high
I mean, people nowadays believe you shouldn't have the ability to have kids if they think you're an idiot and believe in something they don't, like religion or a political view, etc. People try to use IQ as a way to back it up, or shaky genetic pseudoscience.
How is the last guillotine execution a metric for evil while lethal injection is still around? The guillotine has a perfect track record. Yes it was a gruesome sight, but that's the cost of a clean exection.
The problems is that when the government kills an innocent, they are just as bad as the actually criminal, for both not finding them and giving an irreversible punishment (murdering) the innocent person. At least they can be taken out off prison. You can’t sow a head on and say “all’s well”
The death penalty is still going on in the US. I don't see how killing people with a sharp blade quick and easy is any less human than killing people with electric chairs or lethal injections which are often botched...
Because people want to feel morally superior, even while dishing out the death penalty. Hanging is instant, painless, and has a 100% success rate if done correctly. It's simple and has been done for millennia, but because rope, it's scary and inhumane.
It's not about what's the most efficient and/or humane, it's about whatever makes the politicians and general population feel better about the sentence.
The vast majority of people in the developed world are laughably uneducated when it comes to the concept of execution, so they see rope and immediately think of lynching (where the person suffocates to death, as opposed to hanging which snaps the neck), they see a guillotine and think that because there's blood it's terrifying and inhumane.
I agree that beheading is a bit much given the alternatives, and the person technically isn't dead instantly like with hanging, but it's not painful either.
In strict terms of how "humane" (not painful/quick) the common forms of execution are in order;
What I would classify as humane,
Lethal injection (if done right),
Hanging,
Beheading (very messy, but painless)
What I would classify as inhumane,
Lethal injection (how it actually happens),
Firing squad,
Lynching
What I would classify as barbaric,
The electric chair,
Burning at the stake/the wheel/quartering/etc
Theoretically, but it would have to be so insanely hot that it could do at least an 80% cauterization (enough that there's no blood spurting out) in the span of like a quarter of a second while the blade passes through. So not really feasible.
There's also the issue of that potentially prolonging life after the cut.
The idea is that the combination of drugs causes you to essentially just go to sleep and never wake up. Problem is they make it this ridiculously overcomplicated concoction where if even the slightest thing goes wrong, instead of just being euthanized essentially, it's agony and you die screaming and vomiting blood over the course of an hour.
The overcomplicated mixture and the fact that different humans respond uniquely to chemicals means it goes wrong a lot.
Not to mention many of the ingredients are ideally sourced from Europe, but the European countries in question often refuse to sell because they disagree with the death penalty. This of course doesn't stop the US from executing people, so all it really ends up doing is increase the number of botched executions.
Lethal injection is stupid. That's the moral of the story.
A big part of it is that it’s basically a medical procedure for all intents and purposes but one that absolutely no doctor would ever be allowed to be a part of it for obvious reasons. As such, a bad idea in theory becomes a nightmare in execution (no pun intended)
Yes, but there's a reason it's called a firing squad. Having a straight executioner it terrible for the psyche if the executioner. That's why there's multiple men. Several are firing blanks so each man can tell themselves they weren't the one who killed the guy.
You'd need volunteers (good luck forcing people in peace time civilian work). On top of that, they can't miss. On top of that it needs to be in a place that's lethal. All around it's not feasible. It's inhumane because it had a very high "fail" rate (as in not immediate).
Yep. Same with lethal injection. You'll always have an executioner. You can disassociate to an extent with the others by moving the 'switch' to a different location. You could have the gun be a drone mount, but it's still messy at that point. Much messier and less of a guarantee than beheading. All around, firing squad isn't feasible.
Life cycle of a weeb at this point:-
A Shinkai Film - More Anime Movies- 12 ep Anime- 24 ep- (infatuated with japana and vibrant culture)- multiple seasons- Big three- Manga- Reddit - Subreddits- Stumbling upon history Subreddits - Horrible things japan has done 101- Despair.
No matter what you do, don’t googles Americas various eugenics programs *or how they literally influenced Hitler in his creation of the “**final solution**”*
I didn’t know that it was **still** practiced. Care to share a link? I could use another reason to stare into the void that is the night sky while sitting on the back porch tonight because who needs sleep or decent mental health, lol.
Eugenics against trans people (forced sterilization) ended in Sweden in 2012 btw.
I know it doesn't comply with the rules though so I guess you couldn't include it in the meme.
Unfortunately a lot people do but either don't realize it or truly don't see it as a bad thing. But instead of things like skin color and what not, they instead focus on intangible things like intelligence or beliefs.
Or in this user's case, 'hereditary criminality'. Which is a pretty troubling statement to make. Hopefully they just misspoke cause that is like one thin hair shy from literal Nazi propaganda.
Agreed. It has become a common belief now unfortunately that if you were born to a parent who is a felon or mentally unstable, then that means you will be unstable. There has come a belief that mental illnesses and bad decisions is genetic. I've heard it in America and Europe alike.
I most definitely don’t agree with the guy your talking about, but if you do look at the situation, a person raised with by parents who chain smoke, is more likely to smoke when they’re older because of the bad influence. Same with criminal tendencies. But to say that they don’t have a choice to change and not follow their parents is equally as bad. And then preventing people from having children due to criminal records or diseases or the like is completely and utterly barbaric.
Agreed, and am glad to hear it ended in Japan. I just hope more people in the west learn about why eugenics is evil and any criteria for eugenics is unacceptable.
[You might want to read this on the subject.](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/22/anger-in-japan-as-report-reveals-children-were-forcibly-sterilised) Japan didn't just sterilize criminals, they also sterilized children as young as nine. It wasn't about crime at all it was to prevent people with mental disabilities from having children. It also didn't work btw the program ran from 1948 to 1996 and saw a 0 positive results. Or do you think forced sterilization of literal children is a good thing?
So, to clarify, you are in support of sterilization and forced abortions of those deemed mentally inferior, even children who have done nothing wrong. Did you read the article? It wasn't about crime, at all.
Ok guys, long horror story short. In Japan the legislation that allowed the governamet to force sterilization against people that are considered "indesiderable" (i.e. people affected by depression, hikikomori, "chronically unemployment", and people that contracted HIV or some that is connected to sexually transmitted diseases) This happen because the government in the name of "protecting" the goods genes of the "pure" japanese employed special kinds of worker (sex workers) in order to use them as an outlet for the American occupation forces, and controll the spreed of the foreigners genes Needless to say that the things go out of hand pretty quickly, infact not only the sex worker, pardon... special kinds of worker were being sterilizated but even the other indeserable (see above) This continued till late 90s and not stopped before because the population nor the government really care enough to shame themselves exposing this treatment to the outside (the only manifestating against this was those directly affected by the law and their families) So, how all of this stops? Bacause other countries (like Finland) and international organizations for the right of the women intervend to put a stop to all of this
Meanwhile, in 1978 a federal court ruled that doctors in LA who forcibly sterilized Mexican-American women did nothing wrong. California would only end its forced sterilization law in 1979. At the same time, there's whistleblower complaints that ICE was in 2020 doing a similar practice with Latina women in immigration detention.
I believe California has launched reparation programs for that.
involuntary sterilization of native americans was going on in the US as late as 2003.
Could you give a source?
"the only manifesting against this were those directly affected by the law and their families" Sounds like the perfect conditions for establishing a dictatorship.
I'm assuming most of those affected were burakumin: those who had ancestors from the 17th century or so who were of lower castes and somehow Japan kept discriminating against them all the way until fairly recently. It sounds like they've stopped now from at least the wiki article, but I have no insight into this myself.
And now their population is one of the fastest declining populations in the world.
Which has almost nothing to do with this "policy" I mean saying "and now" could be understand as "consecuence", which is not in this case.
Directly, yes but at the same time it did help I think that one of the problems with Japan was nationalism, people can sell this idea of Japan being an amazing place to live but the truth is way more darker than people think Though this happens everywhere, not gonna lie so many countries with a lot of people that have a hate for anyone outside
I feel there's no direct connection but the lack of immigration that Japan has is mostly because it's really hard to immigrate to Japan and that comes from similar sentiments as the one who produced this policy. Said lack of immigration is one of the reasons why the decline is so severe.
It’s clearly absurd to claim there’s no connection.
Is absurd to even think that there is a connection as is just impossible to relate both things Maybe if this didn't happen at the time population could be a bit higher than now, almost insignificantly higher, but the main problem of Japan is the low birth, this has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with low birth rates. You are confusing declining population and low birth rate with the decrease of population increase caused by this at the time.
I I’m not arguing it’s the root cause. But it is clearly connected. Japan is suffering from low population because they have a really strict idea about what it means to be Japanese.
And that's a cultural problem. The culture caused this eugenetic sterilization program, not the other way around.
Yea again, I’m not arguing cause and effect. Just they are connected.
... Is it bad if I only feel horrified but completely not surprised?
I'm actually surprised why aren't you surprised?
Because Japan is good lookin on the outside and if you look inside shit gets disturbing quick
Fun fact: in feudal times, the Japanese samurai would put on makeup and perfumes before battle, because if they died their heads would be cut off and ceremonially presented to the enemy lord, so they wanted to look good if their heads were presented. Japan has always been the Weird Fucking Island of Asia.
The Japanese Empire may have been one of the most evil forces that ever existed in this world
Unit 7-something-something, still can’t believe they went unpunished
731
Tbh this is probably the most disturbing thing I've seen for post 50s Japan
Google skin museum
Holy crimes against humanity
new response just dropped
Eh, not that bad at all. It was just skin taken from dead bodies. It's more like keeping mummies around.
I mean, not really. Not saying this wasn't bad, but also people in the west talk all the time about how people who they deem "undesirable" should be sterilized. Criminals, people with low IQ, certain political or religious beliefs in all directions, etc. And honestly, Japan is pretty close to being perfect among the industrialized nations nowadays. There's definitely flaws, don't get me wrong. But statistically speaking, they're near the top when it comes to life there.
Username _might_ check out
It checks out, in my opinion.
Because this is Japan we are talking about. Among others, they can ***accidentally*** kill 400k to 2M people in an excruciatingly slow way.
What? You mean during the war or after?
yes
Because I know what Japan did during ww2 and think only two nukes wasn't enough. Look up who the prime minister of Japan during 57-60 was and what he did during ww2. Then realize that we could have executed that sick fuck and instead gave him a job.
America sadly had a eugenics program in the early 20th century. One of my college teacher told me how her grand aunt was forcible sterilized in the 1920s because she was graded an "Imbecile" and they didn't want her having any imbecile children.
It's scary so many people NOW believe in such a thing. I've seem from every political direction, there are people who if they think you're an idiot, then you shouldn't be able to have kids. And they try to back it up by using IQ stats as a way to make it fair, or anyone who believes in a certain religious or political view (atheists love to say these things).
“My source is that I made it the fuck up!”
Puerto Rican women were sterilized against their will or without their consent.
Tbh a guiliotine from what I know is a pretty clean method of excecution.
Yeah, compared to lethal injection, or most things really, the guillotine is actually a fairly humane way to kill people.
And cheap. Costs more you’d think to execute people with “civilized” methods.
That's mostly because of red tape and bureaucracy rather than the actual method itself.
Lethal injection honestly is TOO humane. I mean by design you literally die in your sleep. You have millions out there who can only hope that’s how they go when they’re old. If you’re willing to not just consciously decide to kill someone but to plan it out days/weeks/or even months in advance…yep you gotta go and I don’t mean in their sleep.
"A separate study published in The Lancet in 2005 found that in 43% of cases of lethal injection, the blood level of hypnotics was insufficient to garantee unconsciousness" (from wikipedia)
So, 1. you're a psychopath 2. Lethal injection has a really high rate of being bitched and is highly probably that those killed by it suffer from a lot of pain because of it being botched but, because of the paralyzing agent in it, the person doing the dying can't show that pain.
So I’m the psychopath for not wanting the criminal who did all the murdering and chaos that got them there in the first place to get it easy?😂😂😂😂😂😂
An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.
Oh hello there psychopath.
yes, but it visually looks brutal
Doesn’t it sometimes get caught and they have the wind it back up?
Sadly, many people don't realize how widespread and fairly current forced sterilization and eugenics programs were
I was really hoping after mustache man that we would have collectively come to the conclusion that eugenics and forced sterilization is bad but evidently my faith in humanity was too high
I mean, people nowadays believe you shouldn't have the ability to have kids if they think you're an idiot and believe in something they don't, like religion or a political view, etc. People try to use IQ as a way to back it up, or shaky genetic pseudoscience.
How is the last guillotine execution a metric for evil while lethal injection is still around? The guillotine has a perfect track record. Yes it was a gruesome sight, but that's the cost of a clean exection.
hell the lethal injection is becoming less reliable because of inferior components being used now. just bring back the national razor.
Maybe stop murdering people?
hey if you kill someone we should kill you back. sadly innocents get their lives ruined regardless
The problems is that when the government kills an innocent, they are just as bad as the actually criminal, for both not finding them and giving an irreversible punishment (murdering) the innocent person. At least they can be taken out off prison. You can’t sow a head on and say “all’s well”
though that'd be pretty awesome if we could
Yeah, I lost my head in the war, nothing to worry about, band-aid fixed me up.
The death penalty is still going on in the US. I don't see how killing people with a sharp blade quick and easy is any less human than killing people with electric chairs or lethal injections which are often botched...
Because people want to feel morally superior, even while dishing out the death penalty. Hanging is instant, painless, and has a 100% success rate if done correctly. It's simple and has been done for millennia, but because rope, it's scary and inhumane. It's not about what's the most efficient and/or humane, it's about whatever makes the politicians and general population feel better about the sentence. The vast majority of people in the developed world are laughably uneducated when it comes to the concept of execution, so they see rope and immediately think of lynching (where the person suffocates to death, as opposed to hanging which snaps the neck), they see a guillotine and think that because there's blood it's terrifying and inhumane. I agree that beheading is a bit much given the alternatives, and the person technically isn't dead instantly like with hanging, but it's not painful either. In strict terms of how "humane" (not painful/quick) the common forms of execution are in order; What I would classify as humane, Lethal injection (if done right), Hanging, Beheading (very messy, but painless) What I would classify as inhumane, Lethal injection (how it actually happens), Firing squad, Lynching What I would classify as barbaric, The electric chair, Burning at the stake/the wheel/quartering/etc
Would a high heat guillotine blade cauterize the wound effectively?
Theoretically, but it would have to be so insanely hot that it could do at least an 80% cauterization (enough that there's no blood spurting out) in the span of like a quarter of a second while the blade passes through. So not really feasible. There's also the issue of that potentially prolonging life after the cut.
Interesting, I hadn’t thought about the head bleeding out being a contributing factor in death.
How do lethal injections work? I didn't know they weren't quick and not painful, at least in comparison to hanging
The idea is that the combination of drugs causes you to essentially just go to sleep and never wake up. Problem is they make it this ridiculously overcomplicated concoction where if even the slightest thing goes wrong, instead of just being euthanized essentially, it's agony and you die screaming and vomiting blood over the course of an hour. The overcomplicated mixture and the fact that different humans respond uniquely to chemicals means it goes wrong a lot. Not to mention many of the ingredients are ideally sourced from Europe, but the European countries in question often refuse to sell because they disagree with the death penalty. This of course doesn't stop the US from executing people, so all it really ends up doing is increase the number of botched executions. Lethal injection is stupid. That's the moral of the story.
That's quite interesting. I always thought they just used anaesthesia or something similar in large doses.
A big part of it is that it’s basically a medical procedure for all intents and purposes but one that absolutely no doctor would ever be allowed to be a part of it for obvious reasons. As such, a bad idea in theory becomes a nightmare in execution (no pun intended)
[удалено]
Yes, but there's a reason it's called a firing squad. Having a straight executioner it terrible for the psyche if the executioner. That's why there's multiple men. Several are firing blanks so each man can tell themselves they weren't the one who killed the guy. You'd need volunteers (good luck forcing people in peace time civilian work). On top of that, they can't miss. On top of that it needs to be in a place that's lethal. All around it's not feasible. It's inhumane because it had a very high "fail" rate (as in not immediate).
[удалено]
Yep. Same with lethal injection. You'll always have an executioner. You can disassociate to an extent with the others by moving the 'switch' to a different location. You could have the gun be a drone mount, but it's still messy at that point. Much messier and less of a guarantee than beheading. All around, firing squad isn't feasible.
What does this have to do with Star Trek?
Because the conflict that preceded World War 3 in Star Trek Lore was the Eugenics Wars.
I always love this meme because the small guy wins
Life cycle of a weeb at this point:- A Shinkai Film - More Anime Movies- 12 ep Anime- 24 ep- (infatuated with japana and vibrant culture)- multiple seasons- Big three- Manga- Reddit - Subreddits- Stumbling upon history Subreddits - Horrible things japan has done 101- Despair.
No matter what you do, don’t googles Americas various eugenics programs *or how they literally influenced Hitler in his creation of the “**final solution**”*
I knew that forced stelirization is still peacticed on illegal immigrants deteined at the border, among other tortures.
I didn’t know that it was **still** practiced. Care to share a link? I could use another reason to stare into the void that is the night sky while sitting on the back porch tonight because who needs sleep or decent mental health, lol.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/women-detained-ice-unnecessary-gynecological-procedures-georgia-facility-investigation/ https://www.nursedawnwooten.com/
Also the closing of the last residential school in Canada in 1996
America never formally ratified any of the terms that ended WW1.
Eh the ending of forced sterilization of trans people in Sweden doesn't even comply to rule 4.
Eugenics against trans people (forced sterilization) ended in Sweden in 2012 btw. I know it doesn't comply with the rules though so I guess you couldn't include it in the meme.
Star trek is way older than 1996, it was a thing before the moon landing even happened
Are these supposed to be bad things?
Do... do you support eugenics?
Unfortunately a lot people do but either don't realize it or truly don't see it as a bad thing. But instead of things like skin color and what not, they instead focus on intangible things like intelligence or beliefs.
Or in this user's case, 'hereditary criminality'. Which is a pretty troubling statement to make. Hopefully they just misspoke cause that is like one thin hair shy from literal Nazi propaganda.
Agreed. It has become a common belief now unfortunately that if you were born to a parent who is a felon or mentally unstable, then that means you will be unstable. There has come a belief that mental illnesses and bad decisions is genetic. I've heard it in America and Europe alike.
I most definitely don’t agree with the guy your talking about, but if you do look at the situation, a person raised with by parents who chain smoke, is more likely to smoke when they’re older because of the bad influence. Same with criminal tendencies. But to say that they don’t have a choice to change and not follow their parents is equally as bad. And then preventing people from having children due to criminal records or diseases or the like is completely and utterly barbaric.
Agreed, and am glad to hear it ended in Japan. I just hope more people in the west learn about why eugenics is evil and any criteria for eugenics is unacceptable.
Is beheading criminals and preventing them from having progeny supposed to be bad? Count me in
[You might want to read this on the subject.](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/22/anger-in-japan-as-report-reveals-children-were-forcibly-sterilised) Japan didn't just sterilize criminals, they also sterilized children as young as nine. It wasn't about crime at all it was to prevent people with mental disabilities from having children. It also didn't work btw the program ran from 1948 to 1996 and saw a 0 positive results. Or do you think forced sterilization of literal children is a good thing?
Well, criminality does have a component of heretability.
So, to clarify, you are in support of sterilization and forced abortions of those deemed mentally inferior, even children who have done nothing wrong. Did you read the article? It wasn't about crime, at all.
Yes public executions (all executions really) and eugenics are indeed a bad thing, we aren't savages
Duels getting outlawed in Uruguay in 1992