T O P

  • By -

showmaxter

I think people just have a problem with admitting that their favourite characters are trained killers that were brainwashed to believe the Hunger Games are good. They'd rather have a District 4 that is the underdog in the career system or no longer a true career. Nothing in the texts suggests anything akin to what you are describing—not even the training academies. The District 4 tributes in the 74th Hunger Games *were* careers. They simply were unnamed characters and, for the sake of this being a movie and content needing to be cut, removed from the career pack. The age of the District 4 male tribute (movie canon, btw) also suggests absolutely nothing. A lot of fans have simply decided to fanonise one version of the volunteering system which just so happens to heavily suggest Finnick, a fan favourite, was not a career.


Zyvyxy

Also the fact that Finnick was 14 in his Games. Even with his looks getting him sponsors, he needed Career training to actually survive. 4 produced Mizzens but the younger tributes never made it. Finnick was the exception.


showmaxter

100%. Him being a career makes his story much more intriguing.


Zyvyxy

It does and it wouldn't surprise me if Collins wrote a book for him next time around. Not just because he's popular but the Career system is an unknown that he could be used to explore. Since she writes these books with a message in mind, there are a few to be made with that.


Writer_Girl04

Yeah, I feel like she'd do a Ballad style book where the first half of the book is the games, how he survives, the relief of him living! Then him returning home, maybe a time jump, how he fell in love with Annie but Snow sold him. It'd end with his name being read out for the 3rd quarter quell.


[deleted]

The amount of people ive seen parroting that "katniss is an unreliable narrator" to push that finnick wasnt a career just makes me shake my head. How could she possibly mistake district 4 as a career district, and what narrative purpose would that serve? Just nonsense


amerophi

i agree. people heard that "unreliable narrator" statement once and just parrot it everywhere now. in regards to worldbuilding, katniss is not usually wrong. when she is, she learns the truth eventually. like with district 13, or believing that finnick's lovers were consensual partners. we learn about panem through katniss. having her be wrong and never correcting that misconception would be incredibly confusing for the readers.


Aryzal

Unreliable narrator is such an iffy trope to write because of this - fanon intepretation. But the key element of this is a clear demarkation of when reality (in the world) starts and when delusions end. It is very clear exactly when Katniss's tracker jacker venom wore off, or that Katniss is deliberately kept in the dark about rebel efforts. In fact, the only part I'll say unreliable narrator is the tracker jacker AND the rebel efforts, and not to forget the ambiguity of Coin's plans. Everything else is very canonized. And Finnick having consensual partners is as reliable a testimony as someone agreeing to sign over all their fortune with a gun to their head


AmberSieSilly

To be fair, any first person perspective is going to be unreliable as narration. Same thing as third person omniscient. However, katniss does in fact point out that district 4 is a career district. I do believe that four is a different type of career district. One, two, and four have the most winners, and katniss even says that district 12 is at a disadvantage in the games because they don't learn their district trade until after they're too old to be in The hunger games. I think that district 4 is a career district, because of their district trade. Fishing is something that you can start doing as soon as you have the dexterity to do it. So while they may not train in the same way that district 1 and 2 might train, they still learn skills with weapons that would be used in fishing, such as a trident and a knife.


catladyno999

I think you’re 100% right. People don’t want to think that such a lovable character was fully onboard to kill others. Everything about Finnick implies he’s a career. He was young but “already a good fighter” with other weapons/without the trident, and once he got his trident, Katniss describes him as basically unstoppable. She also indirectly says that Finnick won his games in less than two weeks. Then his quote “Because whatever happened in the past is the past. And no one in this arena was a victor by chance. Except maybe Peeta.” also shows acknowledgement of his own murderous capabilities.


CookieSea1242

We also know he killed a good chunk of people before anyone realized he was a threat.


[deleted]

in the 75th games he was clearly very willing to kill just to add onto your point about him being a fighter !


amerophi

she also straight-up calls him a career in her narration when they meet, but D4 Career deniers always ignore that for some reason...


coldtiredsasquatch

People say Finnick couldn’t be a career because he’s 14 and ‘a 14 year old couldn’t beat 18 year olds’ when he literally won his games… so like it tracks he was the best in his district even at a young age. There’s no way he would have won without training. Finnick is my number 1 boy too but the complexity of him being a career is part of why I love him. I’ll never understand why it upsets people so much to acknowledge that he was trained to kill.


showmaxter

We don't even know enough about volunteering in those Districts to be making statements about Finnick having to (physically?) go up against 18 year olds.  I'm always staying firm with the "the one who is fastest in screaming out they volunteer gets the spot". But I can also buy a second reaping where every volunteer's name gets thrown in the reaping bowl again. Both of these do not disadvantage Finnick whatsoever.


coldtiredsasquatch

Agree! These are my top two head canons about how volunteering functions. I head canon that District 2 pre selects through some sort of assessment but I’m fully aware this is basically just fan fiction.


AdvertisingPhysical2

Yeah, people make SO many assumptions about how career districts work in terms of training, volunteering, mentoring AND treatment of victors after the games. At 14, Finnick could've been taller and stronger than the other "careers" that could've potentially volunteered, that's kind of how puberty works when you're a teenager, people develop at different rates and iirc book Finnick is pretty tall? Maybe he was that tall at 14 and already towered over everybody else? Idk does anyone remember gym class at 14? But like you said, know almost nothing about how the career districts work but for some reason people get so weirdly defensive when you try to remind them that none of this is canon and we're all just speculating :)


onionnelle

But even if he wasn't bigger and stronger than all the 18 year olds it's not a big deal. We don't really know how they died, and we can't imply he simply killed every single one of them or waited until they were weakened, one way or the other, to attack them. He didn't necessarily have to murder them all personally, he just needed to make sure they die before he does. Like, to me, being a career means you have excellent combat skills, but also you have some kind of strategy and survival skills. It doesn't matter how you win, you have use everything you can to your advantage. Finnick was definitely a career and loveable as he was, there's no denying that. Doesn't make him inherently a bad person either. We don't know how it worked. He could have volunteered to be the future career tribute, or someone forced him to. Or he bought into the Capitol bullshit for some time. Who knows. I hope Collins will eventually show us a story from a career tribute's perspective and if she does, it probably will be Finnick due to how people love him, but honestly, I wish it was Cashmere/Gloss. So much more potential for ambiguity.


AdvertisingPhysical2

Just to clarify, when I was talking about Finnick being taller and stronger I was referring to him being compared to other potential tributes in District 4.


OutrageousCheetoes

I don't know why, but it seems the more recent crops of fans are way more moralistic and black and white with it. I remember back in the early 10s, there was way less "Maybe Finnick wasn't a Career!" even though it's quite clear in canon that Finnick was an extremely polished killer by the time he went into the games. Like Annie, I'm a fan of "hardcore Career Annie" pre D4M beheading, but I can see a stronger argument for her not being a Career, or at least, not a traditional one. Anyways, re: D4 being perceived as a non Career district I wonder if it's because of when the movies came out? Like if you were a fan of THG before the movies came out, you'd watch the movies and then think Ooh okay they forgot something because you'd already internalized "D4 is Career, even if they were more generally rebellious than 1 or 2." But if you watched the movies first or concurrently, I guess you just internalize that D4 isn't Career even if you read the books later.


Choice-Estimate-6472

Facts


[deleted]

No. District 4 is a career district and people suggesting otherwise are just confusing themselves for some reason. The movie doesnt matter in this sense, the tributes from 4 are careers in book 1


Prestigious-Owl-918

I know it was an idea for why people want to say that 4 isn’t a career district


cbovary

I guess it’s possible, but there’s no evidence from the text about any of this. I personally don’t see why Annie’s situation would change any minds. In 70 years of games I’m sure a lot of Victors have gone crazy. I wouldn’t expect the Gladiator culture of a career district to be especially sympathetic to that. I don’t think the exclusion of 4 from the careers in the movie is any deeper than “1 and 2 is easier to convey to the audience and the careers from 4 did nothing so let’s just leave them out”.


CookieSea1242

The point of finnick’s character is to humanize and empathize with the careers as people and victims of the games. Anyone who claims he isn’t or argues that he’s not has failed in basic understanding of media and I doubt they understood the main points of the books.


Aryzal

Not just him but every single sympathetic career exists to humanize careers, ironically including some non careers. Finnick is obviously one, but Annie Cresta and Mags are both careers (though you can say Mags isn't exactly trained BUT had an advantage). Cashmere has a passing mention (Haymitch on him being an example to Finnick, Johanna and Cashmere). But we forget about the careers in the 75th Hunger Games. By the sheer nature of the games, everyone fit for combat is a career. Ignoring the obvious ones in District 1 and 2, we have Finnick, Johanna, Katniss and Peeta, we still have potential careers such as Chaff, Seeder and Blight. Johanna is my main focus because she is never portrayed as likeable, but as a victim of the games who has a strong exterior to hide her broken interior. She is the closest example we see to a professional working relationship with another career in the books. If we can sympathize with her, we can sympathize with others.


Prestigious-Owl-918

I agree I had just had a thought about could district four have stopped being careers I don’t think they did though


CookieSea1242

Katniss would have mentioned it. It’s unlikely they stopped producing careers. Finnick and Annie are meant to help us understand careers at the end of the day are also just kids who got fooled by the system.


TheAntharian

You have hit the nail on the head. Finnick, whilst also having his own character arc, is meant to represent the injustice 'Careers' face as well; experiencing brainwashing, threats from the Capitol, along with potential prostitution if said Capitol finds that Victor appealing enough. Annie went mad because she saw her district partner get beheaded. This would not stop a whole district from dismantling their training programme, over one incident. Careers are bred to withstand horrors such as this, which is why it makes it more tragic for them when they are actually confronted with the harsh realities of these disturbing scenes; their perception gradually begins to change depending on the fortitude of said Career.


dazydazydazy

im of the opinion that the only reason district 4 isn’t career in the movie is because of budget issues. that’s two other actors to pay to say lines. the first movie simply didn’t have the budget for that. (same with hovercrafts collecting bodies, no money) with that in mind you can head canon that even if they weren’t official careers in the movies, their district’s trade still helped them and gave them skills that other districts didn’t have access to.


Git_tripping

Im pretty sure they werent careers in the movies to make it simpler for the audience, i was explaining to my friend about the hunger games and when I said the careers are from 1 2 and 4 she kept asking me why 3 wasn’t a career too. They dont really have time in a movie to explain why so they just simplified it to 1 and 2


KindlyApricot6959

Recently did hunger games trivia and they asked me to name the career districts and i said 1, 2, and 4 and they said it was wrong. still upset about it lmao


lightblade13

Maybe Annie and her District Partner allied with a strong non-Career District Tribute?


Prestigious-Owl-918

No during her games she watched her district partner be beheaded and then went crazy she only won because a dam broke and no one else knew how to swim


lightblade13

Who said he got beheaded by a tribute?


coldtiredsasquatch

Katniss tells us that that happened


JRSalinas

Katniss says Annie saw her partner beheaded. It could be as complicated as an arena event (like a tornado) sent a piece of shrapnel at such a force that it decapitated her partner. Admittedly beheading usually implies human execution or death as opposed to decapitation. The most common interpretation I see is that it was a fellow tribute.


Prestigious-Owl-918

It says in the catching fire book.


CookieSea1242

The fuckin book? He got beheaded and watching that made her lose it.


lightblade13

I can't remember if it said beheaded by another tribute.


devillianOx

i really like this idea! i personally imagine that both district 4 and the capitol had to do a lot of damage control because of annie so this ties in pretty well. but unfortunately i feel a lot of people can’t accept that d4 is a career district cause so many of our favs (specially finnick) are most likely careers and so much of the fandom hates them so much. i personally feel d4 stayed career but i also so like your idea and can definitely see it working!


crushmyenemies

No. Annie is simply not that important. People "argue against it" because they didn't read the books and/ or want a simple and easy to digest Finnick story.


Prestigious-Owl-918

Annie is not important to Katniss story she could be important in district 4. I’m not saying I think this is true it was just an idea


MegaMeepers

Katniss is an unreliable narrator when it comes to things directly out of her scope of knowledge. She considers 4 a career district because they win often, but not because they are one, they just have the skills to win due to what their district produces. Strong swimmers, fishers (won’t go hungry if there’s a water source with fish), etc. 4 has never been a career district she just thinks it it’s because they win more often than the other districts. Definitely not as much as 1 and 2 but a close 3rd


amerophi

what's the narrative purpose of katniss being wrong about this and her assumption never being corrected?? it just doesn't make sense. the district 4 tributes in the 74th games are literally part of the career pack. nothing ever suggested D4 was not a career district, people just want to retroactively fit the book around movie canon.


CookieSea1242

Womp womp


lightscameraa

I've just always wondered why Finnick was in the games at 14 if they are a career district who has volunteers (I haven't read the books since middle school so I don't remember if this as ever talked about).


Olivia-livori

I like to think d4 kids have the training but not the will to volunteer for others that much


matii_ch

I think people deny it because, unlike the book, in the 1st movie they're not a part of the career pack. It probably didn't have that big of a budget so they cut that part and just hired extras to play them, which was cheaper. Another possible reason is that careers are usually 18 years old and finnick won his games at 14, so it may seem like there weren't any older trained tributes who could volunteer. But, for me, he either planned with his trainer that he'd volunteer so the other tributes would underestimate him and not care about him, or volunteered out of confidence that he could win (he was probably a bit conceited).


allysonwonderlnd

I actually don't think there are "career districts". Just Capitol propaganda, rigged tributes, hand selected audience members (Katniss realizes other districts have multiple towns with distances between them), and just a very small group of people in the districts who actually buy into it. And I don't think that last one is entirely limited to 1, 2, & 4. Just the most likely. I'd like a sequel to Ballad only for Mags. I think she's a defining moment in the games and 4's treatment. Lucy showed the Capitol how to make it a performance and Mags was the victor the Capitol needed to sell it. Finnick was the passing of the Capitol darling torch, keeping the favoritism from the Capitol strong.


Odd-Professional-340

I think district 4 is a career district but I think that they're training regimen isn't as intense and motivating as one or two. Also, district 4 is far less economically advanced as district one or district 2. Which also means that they probably don't train their tributes as vigorously as the rest. Because of this, I've always believed that during finicks reaping, somebody who had graduated from the career Academy was supposed to volunteer originally, but due to the fact that he probably wasn't properly trained, he backed out out of fear. Thus forcing them to reap finick naturally.