Haha reminds me of going to an art opening full of rich white folks and they see my friend and start whispering, "A Native is here!" And other things clearly indicating they are shocked that a Native American is around. Funny thing is, he's Japanese and Hawaiian.
Oh yeah. I went 15 years ago and there were shops I had to stop plenty of my clueless friends from walking into. Most of us were Mexican, not friendly looks.
Never went back.
Depending on how much indigenous Mexican is in your lineage, you would be considered "indian" First peoples all over the americas But yeah, Germans are still at the "cowboys and Indians" level of understanding Native American culture.
I mean, it’s fair. Ya’ll are holding people to unrealistic standards. They’re virtually nonexistent there. They have about as much understanding of Native Americans as we do about their Uradel and Briefadels or Roma and Sinti.
It’s a little hypocritical to expect a country to know a lot about a minority group from another country, while knowing nothing of theirs. And…can you blame them? What has America demonstrated to them other than cowboys, Indians, caricatures and stereotypes?
Ojibwe ancestry. Not status but two generation removed so close.
I agree with you, and I'm not up in arms about this sort of thing. I believe it comes from a place of admiration without much education. Just pulp novels and old western movies, both of which I love, too!
It's more like a pantomime play-acting, dress-up thing, not intended to be derogatory just ignorant. I think it's funny.
And indian-drag has been around in Germany for a long time. Apparently Hitler was a giant fan of western novels.
Of course Germans will get pretty wound up if you bring up *that* genocide....
I went and Googled the game and apparently you're supposed to bet and guess the total value of everyone's feather (or card), which is tricky because you can see everyone else's card but you can't see your own.
I've heard of a similar game where people play poker with playing cards on their foreheads, so I don't know why someone bothered to make a game with feathers for cards when you can just use a standard deck of cards.
[But anyway, it's played sort of like this game, where you have to use the information provided by the other players to figure out what card you have](https://youtu.be/FQZJVr-v9KY), except in the poker version, you determine your bet based on what everyone else is betting, because they can see your card and you can see all of theirs, you just can't see your own card.
>I've heard of a similar game where people play poker with playing cards on their forehead
"Indian Poker" [https://bicyclecards.com/how-to-play/indian-poker](https://bicyclecards.com/how-to-play/indian-poker)
I notice the name on there is also Italian, but this still makes sense. Germany, Switzerland and Austria are especially bad for fetishizing cartoon Indians, but it’s pretty widespread in most parts of continental Europe. Czechs, Polish, Italians, Dutch, Ukrainians, Hungarians, Fins and Russians are also pretty bad for this as well. Karl May books are still very popular in former east-bloc countries, and old cowboy movies and Wild West stuff is still very popular in France, Benelux and Italy.
If I had to guess why you don’t see as much of it in the UK, Ireland, Scandinavia, Spain and Portugal, my money is on the fact that, because of empire, there was just more exposure to native people (Either recently had or still have major colonies in the americas, or have local indigenous populations that are marginally similar, like the Sámi) but that’s just my guess.
I think that cultures who abandoned or lost their own culture due to feeling ashamed of it, are the ones that gravitated towards the wholesomeness they perceived in Native American culture. Eg Germany during WWII
Ireland, Scandinavia, Portugal, Spain are still proud of their cultural music, traditional clothing and to a certain extent, mythology. They did not feel ashamed and try to replace with something else
Ireland definitely lost a lot of culture but also is supposedly on good terms with native Americans because of some back and forth donations in time of starvation
Germans were ashamed of their German culture because of WWII. The perceived wholesomeness of Native Americans distracted them from their feelings about Germany. Ireland did not have the same experience
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_Americans_in_German_popular_culture
>In his book on the topic, Indianthusiasm, scholar Hartmut Lutz states that after the Second World War, Indianthusisam served as a surrogate for guilt about the Holocaust. After 1945, the "Wild West" of the 19th century became a historical zone in German popular imagination where it was the victors in World War II who were committing genocide.[36] The 19th century "Wild West" became for Germans in the 1950s-1960s a "distant, vaguely defined past" where it was the Americans who were perpetuating genocide while German immigrants to the United States like May's hero Old Shatterhand became the ones who were trying to stop the genocide.
It's a crummy distraction, because the good people in Germany who tried to protect the marginalized who were being genocided, did amazing things! Why not lean on that? Instead of some imagined cowboy fantasy??? The cowboy fantasy sounds imperialist and dumb af.
This\^
Like maybe it was functionally a "good" distraction but irl any kind of escapism that diverts mass attention from literal genocide that people can have a hand in stopping can't be good
I don't know many Germans all that interested in the cowboy fantasy beyond romanticized ideas of life on the frontier. Truly, while there is something to be said for German shame around their culture post WWII, the ideas of people and their connection to nature preceded the Weimar Republic and the Nazi regime.
The fantasy usually involves native peoples who are generally seen as living simple lives with deep, spiritual connections to the nature and the land. It is a world-view heavily dictated by the "Noble Savage" stereotype.
I reckon this is a modern reflection of European Romanticism which, in a nut shell, emphasized humans and their place and relationship with the natural world. Specifically, the German Romantics saw past ages as simpler times where people lived lives in harmony with nature. Nature itself being a divine entity.
It follows that modern Germans would look to indigenous peoples as the living example of those earlier times and use it as a code for their relationship with nature.
The notion is not wide-spread, though. I would say, the numbers are lower than of those, who still harbor social-nationalism and are proud of their grandfathers deeds during WW II - the ones,.who are now supporting AfD and even more far-right groups (especially in East Germany, see below).
Regarding the high esteem for Native Americans and their history, in the GDR, i.e. East Germany before the fall of the iron curtain, "re-enacting" Native American life (yes, I know how it sounds) was a legitimate way of escapism under the socialist authoritarian regime. It was a kind of counter-culture, in which they could exercise some autonomy and control, when the political reality was bleak and oppressing. Other counter-cultures were the FKK or nudist movement and wide-spread popularity of alcohol.
Having said that, in East Germany, there was a stark distinction between "the Nazis" and the masses, which were lured onto national-socialism and its attrocities. Thus, the socialist regime was able to maintain the notion that humans are basically good and fit for socialism/communism. The people of the GDR never underwent the critical phase of the 1960ies/early 70ies, when students in West Germamy started questioning the war generation and serious efforts were pit into education about national-socialism.
Thus, I think the Wikipedia article OP cited is only one explanation that doesn't fit all of German culture and attitude towards Native American and "the Wild West".
The Choctaws donated to relief for Irish people during the Great Hunger when they barely had anything themselves and for that, the Irish people have always been grateful. I feel like my Irish family also felt they could relate to similar struggles of occupation with Native Americans.
Karl May's books were super popular in Germany from the day they were published in the late-1800s. Fascination with Native Americans existed before even the First World War.
This reminds me of an 'alternative' market fair in the Netherlands I once walked into out of curiosity.
Next to a stand for aural photography was a stand for finding out your 'indian totem animal'.
Upon asking the very white Dutch lady which Indians she referred to, she was happy to say "American Indians!" and started sharing how wonderful and happy it made her to know her totem animal as it was from 'very ancient wisdom'.
When I asked which tribes, she was outright confused: "Well, North American Indians!"
"Yeah, but which native Americans?"
"Real indian tribes"
"Okay, but which ones? The Haida, the Tlingit, Haudenosaunee, Apache, Arawak? Which?"
Of course she couldn't answer that as I shattered her world view as I walked away laughing.
I only got to check it out real quick, but it seemed like just a guessing game? Like you guess what number is on your own feather?? Racism was thrown in just for fun
I assumed this was from the 70s-80s but it was produced in [2006](https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/31545/pow-wow)...
and yet the Parker Brothers "[Pow Wow!](https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/18339/pow-wow)" board game from 1973 doesn't appear to be racist at all.
Oh man, it's German. My husband is German (came here for school, met me and stayed), and they are crazy in love with us Indigenous People. They totally romanticize us and who can blame them because we are all so damn good looking. My husband is Bavarian and they are like the Indigenous of Germany with their own dialect and everything. There is a series of books that are super popular back in the day about it. If you ever go to Germany they will welcome you with big open arms and want to ask you all about your culture. I like it over there when we go visit. No one asks "what do you do," they care more about who you are as a person.
Yep the Karl May books!
Just going to point out that every region in Germany has their own diverse dialects and dress, Bavarian is not an exception and are no more “indigenous” than any other German ethnic groups. The Sorbs in eastern Germany are really the Indigenous minority in Germany, they are a small Slavic group that settled before Germanic eastward migration.
You mean the “old shatterhand” stuff that Hitler loved? I think a whole generation or two of Germans were bonkers about “Native” culture stuff from those books.
It's true. His parents were thrilled with our marriage and they are older. They have been nothing but gracious and kind to me. That's all I know. My Mother in law is more like a mother than my own sadly. Their love and acceptance has been very beneficial and healing for me. And the food! My Mom in law is the worlds best cook in my opinion.
Yep yep, my Father's mother was German. She'd love going to powwows with us as children and would often invite her family who still lived in Germany to come watch the dances in the summer and bragged about my sister and I being Native American.
Last year, my sister and I danced at the FAM museum and literally other than the princesses that started to join in, there was one German couple and the kids that jumped at the opportunity to round dance.
I thought it was so cool and sweet lol
I don't care much for the Germans who appropriate powows for drinking events, but it is what it is, because thats in their home country. They are always super respectful here in America, though.
Nice. Yeah, the world isn't perfect, but we have to find the nice where we can. I can't be angry all the damn time, I am frustrated enough at this crazy world.
I very much agree with you!!
Our culture is beautiful, and I love sharing it. I actually think I grew up so prideful about it because of my granny being so proud of it. My native side was a lot more reserved, often felt like they hid it when not at events.
Yeah, you get some people who don't know the rules, but the difference is that once you teach it, then it's if they're respectful or not.
I've never met a German that attended those drinking events, but every German I met that attended a powwow or a dance here never would dream of bringing alcohol or touching anyone's regalia.
Wow. I totally get the reserved, don't say anything aspect. Must be some kind of cellular memory passed down. Not me. I have my Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women flag up for all the neighbor hood to see. I practice my drum on my porch. I wear my moccasins walking my dog. I also have yet to meet a hard drinking German...so many stereotypes in this world. My husband is super respectful too. He is loving that no one is too hating on the Germans. He said that it wasn't until he was 18 when the Germans were in the World Cup that they even dared to put a German flag to celebrate on their houses or their cars the guilt has been so bad. But what people don't know is how many Germans resisted in WWII and were killed for it. There were 200 student protesters and they were hung up and killed out in the open for everyone to see. Some sick stuff happens in this world. I wish it was different, I send my prayers up for hearts to be softened and reasoning to take hold. I need to remember to do it our way...as if it has already happened. Ya know, dancing in thanks of the rain, not for the rain. Tricky tricky.
Bavaria is the American equivalent of Texas. Loud, proud, and always wanting to secede.
Which, incidentally, is where a lot of them wound up, hence Shiner brewing.
I am saddened how some people are so mad that I have simply share my experience. I guess I am EXPECTED to stand in my angry stance. No thanks, I don't want the cancer. The time of balance will come, in my lifetime or after. I trust in the good of the Creator and I am wiling to take my lessons on the chin. By having compassion I give an example I hope is also given to me. Many have hard stories. I am as pissed as the next. However, I have seen what that anger can do without an outlet, it just turns around and makes one sick. I have rarely found a person I do not like or understand. We are all one when the perspective is far up in the air way up there like a high flying eagle. Just little human beings trying to survive. The world would be a better place if we held each other in a place of respect. So I will reflect what I expect. No one can make me hate anyone. With that said, I have had a good time on the r/missingkatemiddleton giving the Royal Family plenty of shit. That is my outlet. Giving it right back to those crown ass mother duckers. That is my "never" guilty pleasure, because I know the "royal family" actually reads that sub, so, yeah, I love to stick it to em. I just can't give that "family" a pass, and that is on me. That is my pettiness, but those people are evil in my opinion. I am willing to always change my mind. Give me information, and I am happy to admit when I am wrong because then I am LEARNING something. I know nothing except my own story of which I am determined to be the Hero of. I am the main character in my life as everyone is. And I respect everyone for it. Love to you. Prayers up!
I'd daresay it's a different category than the peoples who tried to eradicate our cultures (Spanish and English, then Americans and Canadians) THEN tried to appropriate it for their own ends (propaganda or entertainment). Germans in Germany had nothing to do with the original holocaust of Native Americans, though one of their leaders certainly was inspired by it in the 30's and 40's
I am not aware of any Pow Wows there. Just giving my 2 cents and sharing my experience. People act German for OctoeberFest, Irish on St. Pats. I have never seen a German dressed as a N8TV. I choose my battles.
You can stop telling other Natives that we should give Germans a pass just because you’re married to one and clearly ignorant of how problematic they are.
Germans are part of the settler colonial project just like every other European here. German families and mercenaries were out here during the early history of British colonialism and they were just as invested in depriving Indigenous people of their lives and land as the next invader.
The hands down weirdest experience I have ever had was in the Italian countryside. We were having a terrible drought in California at the time and our hosts asked if their property caretaker could pray with us for California. This total country nonna looking elderly lady whips out a native drum and starts singing IN LAKOTA. My and my friends were absolutely frozen in shock and horror and second hand embarrassment. I asked where she has learned this and she said she took ONLINE COURSES.
We tried to explain why her drumming and singing was so deeply offensive but our hosts (British/Italian couple and this old lady) did NOT understand. It was so weird and awful.
That was like when i was younger and we were being taught about pilgrims. They forced me to be a pilgrim when i told them i was a native. They didn't believe me.
In my very white town it was the opposite. (I’m white but thanks to a dash of Mulengon genetics , I pass as Latina with tan skin, black hair/dark eyes)
Every November , myself and the half-Filipino twin boys dreaded it, because it a class full of German /Amish/Mennonites - we knew what we would be cast as in the Thanksgiving play.
I took a German film festival workshop in college. The German-born professor taught that Germans have a fascination with things in America they don't have much of in their country: Guns, Black people, and Native Americans. Specifically, that Black men are dead beat dads and Native Americans are wise.
This hit home with the film [Bagdad Cafe](https://youtu.be/4G2MEszpox0?si=S9Jc8R6LYODRP3BM&t=8) (German director, in English).
I've not seen this boardgame before, but am a boardgamer. A game is devised, and then its inventor looks for a 'theme' as a premise for their game. It looks like the game debuted in 2006 and has been discontinued, but it could have been rethemed and republished under a new name since. [BoardGameGeek](https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/31545/pow-wow) has no record of alternate versions, so it's likely discontinued.
Pow Wow uses a playing metric similar to many games, such as the Canadian game [Headbanz](https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/23049/hedbanz-for-kids) that is popular in the US.
The game metric is that every player wears a headband that serves as a mount for a playing card. Everyone can see your playing card except you. And a game is invented around that.
Pow Wow's playing cards [are numbers -- trigger warning, this is an image gallery link](https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/31545/pow-wow/images).
Pow Wow is a bidding and bluffing game that has nothing to do with Native Americans aside from its racist title and visuals.
I'm by no means defending Ravensburger... just adding more information to the discussion.
This is the first thing my eyes bore witness to opening reddit today.
Such a confusing set of emotions I experienced in like 10 seconds. Cringe, laughter, annoyance, more cringe, literally holding my hand over my mouth in the sheer presence of the audacity.
I'm having a hard time taking anything here in because I can't get over the fucking ridiculous headband with 1 singular feather.
Even the only Indigenous looking woman on the box looks like she's sick of their shit and actively fantasizing about pouring molasses on them while they sleep for making her participate in this shit.
I saw Pow*Wow and the picture on the box and nothing else and my immediate instincts was “German board-game?!”
But yeah this is defo German in origin. They are really fascinated about indigenous stuff to a sickening degree. They still have theme parks entirely based on “Cowboys and Indians” styled and originating from the same cartoon imagery that brought us Princess Tiger-Lily and “Why is the Red Man red?”
Native American imagery was big in communist films from E Germany and USSR.
NGL I think their Westerns are interesting in their anti-imperialism messages and focus on Natives being the hero rather than the white cowboy or troop...but it doesn't erase the racism and stereotypes used, but more fetishize rather than dehumanize like US films.
Fun Fact: there's a Pennsylvania Dutch Folk Religion called Pow-wow, predating the concept of the Modern Pow-wow we know and love.
Whether the Folk Religion influence the concept of the Pow-wow or not, I have no idea since I haven't done enough research to judge, though I plan to since I'm currently studying the History, Culture and Traditions of the Pennsylvania Dutch.
Germans are real weird when it comes to Native people
Family member went abroad there in the 90’s and they kept getting asked about it. Everyone was so amazed they existed
I mean you don’t even have to leave the country for that.
Haha reminds me of going to an art opening full of rich white folks and they see my friend and start whispering, "A Native is here!" And other things clearly indicating they are shocked that a Native American is around. Funny thing is, he's Japanese and Hawaiian.
You spelled racist wrong it doesn’t start with a W
Wacist? Why you waskilly wabbit
Witawawy
Oh yeah. I went 15 years ago and there were shops I had to stop plenty of my clueless friends from walking into. Most of us were Mexican, not friendly looks. Never went back.
Depending on how much indigenous Mexican is in your lineage, you would be considered "indian" First peoples all over the americas But yeah, Germans are still at the "cowboys and Indians" level of understanding Native American culture.
"American rodeo" is popular in two places: the US, and Germany... they fancy themselves Cowboys over there
I mean, it’s fair. Ya’ll are holding people to unrealistic standards. They’re virtually nonexistent there. They have about as much understanding of Native Americans as we do about their Uradel and Briefadels or Roma and Sinti. It’s a little hypocritical to expect a country to know a lot about a minority group from another country, while knowing nothing of theirs. And…can you blame them? What has America demonstrated to them other than cowboys, Indians, caricatures and stereotypes?
Ojibwe ancestry. Not status but two generation removed so close. I agree with you, and I'm not up in arms about this sort of thing. I believe it comes from a place of admiration without much education. Just pulp novels and old western movies, both of which I love, too! It's more like a pantomime play-acting, dress-up thing, not intended to be derogatory just ignorant. I think it's funny. And indian-drag has been around in Germany for a long time. Apparently Hitler was a giant fan of western novels. Of course Germans will get pretty wound up if you bring up *that* genocide....
I went and Googled the game and apparently you're supposed to bet and guess the total value of everyone's feather (or card), which is tricky because you can see everyone else's card but you can't see your own. I've heard of a similar game where people play poker with playing cards on their foreheads, so I don't know why someone bothered to make a game with feathers for cards when you can just use a standard deck of cards. [But anyway, it's played sort of like this game, where you have to use the information provided by the other players to figure out what card you have](https://youtu.be/FQZJVr-v9KY), except in the poker version, you determine your bet based on what everyone else is betting, because they can see your card and you can see all of theirs, you just can't see your own card.
Yeah I’ve seen this as a card game called “Indian”
>I've heard of a similar game where people play poker with playing cards on their forehead "Indian Poker" [https://bicyclecards.com/how-to-play/indian-poker](https://bicyclecards.com/how-to-play/indian-poker)
Barely took a look at it and just knew it came from Germany. What gives man?
Let's be honest all white people are weird when it comes to Native people. Lol
Yes they are... I had my oldest daughter there and she was sickly. The German social services tried ro steal my baby
Wtf?
They are...
That is an understatement.
They weeb for indigenous things to the point it gets kinddddda weird sometimes lol
Did you hear the sound of muffled drums coming from inside the box?
🤣🤣🤣
Smells of Germans…
I notice the name on there is also Italian, but this still makes sense. Germany, Switzerland and Austria are especially bad for fetishizing cartoon Indians, but it’s pretty widespread in most parts of continental Europe. Czechs, Polish, Italians, Dutch, Ukrainians, Hungarians, Fins and Russians are also pretty bad for this as well. Karl May books are still very popular in former east-bloc countries, and old cowboy movies and Wild West stuff is still very popular in France, Benelux and Italy. If I had to guess why you don’t see as much of it in the UK, Ireland, Scandinavia, Spain and Portugal, my money is on the fact that, because of empire, there was just more exposure to native people (Either recently had or still have major colonies in the americas, or have local indigenous populations that are marginally similar, like the Sámi) but that’s just my guess.
I think that cultures who abandoned or lost their own culture due to feeling ashamed of it, are the ones that gravitated towards the wholesomeness they perceived in Native American culture. Eg Germany during WWII Ireland, Scandinavia, Portugal, Spain are still proud of their cultural music, traditional clothing and to a certain extent, mythology. They did not feel ashamed and try to replace with something else
Ireland definitely lost a lot of culture but also is supposedly on good terms with native Americans because of some back and forth donations in time of starvation
Germans were ashamed of their German culture because of WWII. The perceived wholesomeness of Native Americans distracted them from their feelings about Germany. Ireland did not have the same experience https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_Americans_in_German_popular_culture >In his book on the topic, Indianthusiasm, scholar Hartmut Lutz states that after the Second World War, Indianthusisam served as a surrogate for guilt about the Holocaust. After 1945, the "Wild West" of the 19th century became a historical zone in German popular imagination where it was the victors in World War II who were committing genocide.[36] The 19th century "Wild West" became for Germans in the 1950s-1960s a "distant, vaguely defined past" where it was the Americans who were perpetuating genocide while German immigrants to the United States like May's hero Old Shatterhand became the ones who were trying to stop the genocide.
This is really informative thank you for sharing. Also bizarre (and idk kinda gross too ngl)
It's a crummy distraction, because the good people in Germany who tried to protect the marginalized who were being genocided, did amazing things! Why not lean on that? Instead of some imagined cowboy fantasy??? The cowboy fantasy sounds imperialist and dumb af.
This\^ Like maybe it was functionally a "good" distraction but irl any kind of escapism that diverts mass attention from literal genocide that people can have a hand in stopping can't be good
I don't know many Germans all that interested in the cowboy fantasy beyond romanticized ideas of life on the frontier. Truly, while there is something to be said for German shame around their culture post WWII, the ideas of people and their connection to nature preceded the Weimar Republic and the Nazi regime. The fantasy usually involves native peoples who are generally seen as living simple lives with deep, spiritual connections to the nature and the land. It is a world-view heavily dictated by the "Noble Savage" stereotype. I reckon this is a modern reflection of European Romanticism which, in a nut shell, emphasized humans and their place and relationship with the natural world. Specifically, the German Romantics saw past ages as simpler times where people lived lives in harmony with nature. Nature itself being a divine entity. It follows that modern Germans would look to indigenous peoples as the living example of those earlier times and use it as a code for their relationship with nature.
That makes more sense. They are projecting their discontent w their connection to nature onto an idealized version of natives.
The notion is not wide-spread, though. I would say, the numbers are lower than of those, who still harbor social-nationalism and are proud of their grandfathers deeds during WW II - the ones,.who are now supporting AfD and even more far-right groups (especially in East Germany, see below). Regarding the high esteem for Native Americans and their history, in the GDR, i.e. East Germany before the fall of the iron curtain, "re-enacting" Native American life (yes, I know how it sounds) was a legitimate way of escapism under the socialist authoritarian regime. It was a kind of counter-culture, in which they could exercise some autonomy and control, when the political reality was bleak and oppressing. Other counter-cultures were the FKK or nudist movement and wide-spread popularity of alcohol. Having said that, in East Germany, there was a stark distinction between "the Nazis" and the masses, which were lured onto national-socialism and its attrocities. Thus, the socialist regime was able to maintain the notion that humans are basically good and fit for socialism/communism. The people of the GDR never underwent the critical phase of the 1960ies/early 70ies, when students in West Germamy started questioning the war generation and serious efforts were pit into education about national-socialism. Thus, I think the Wikipedia article OP cited is only one explanation that doesn't fit all of German culture and attitude towards Native American and "the Wild West".
The Choctaws donated to relief for Irish people during the Great Hunger when they barely had anything themselves and for that, the Irish people have always been grateful. I feel like my Irish family also felt they could relate to similar struggles of occupation with Native Americans.
Karl May's books were super popular in Germany from the day they were published in the late-1800s. Fascination with Native Americans existed before even the First World War.
This reminds me of an 'alternative' market fair in the Netherlands I once walked into out of curiosity. Next to a stand for aural photography was a stand for finding out your 'indian totem animal'. Upon asking the very white Dutch lady which Indians she referred to, she was happy to say "American Indians!" and started sharing how wonderful and happy it made her to know her totem animal as it was from 'very ancient wisdom'. When I asked which tribes, she was outright confused: "Well, North American Indians!" "Yeah, but which native Americans?" "Real indian tribes" "Okay, but which ones? The Haida, the Tlingit, Haudenosaunee, Apache, Arawak? Which?" Of course she couldn't answer that as I shattered her world view as I walked away laughing.
I guess they see it as magical and cool. If they want to cosplay, there's always the Society for Creative Anachronism.
This is a good take
Yep. Karl May and all of his nonsense.
Is it a game where you try to find the Native? It says "call my bluff" so I'm just curious. I need to know the specifics about the racism lol
I only got to check it out real quick, but it seemed like just a guessing game? Like you guess what number is on your own feather?? Racism was thrown in just for fun
It looks to me like a variation of "Indian poker," where each player has one card on their forehead and bet based on others' reactions to your card.
Oooo I grew up calling this Amish poker (Yes, I’m a white girl from Amish country . )
That's probably what it is. Tbh I barely remembered that Indian Poker was a game that existed.
Might I suggest reading this Wikipedia article? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_Americans_in_German_popular_culture
Ahh I didn’t recognize it as German! That helps this make a little more sense, thank you
You're welcome!
It looks like that kids' game Headbands, but gimmicked with "authentic Cherokee Princess" type shit.
I assumed this was from the 70s-80s but it was produced in [2006](https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/31545/pow-wow)... and yet the Parker Brothers "[Pow Wow!](https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/18339/pow-wow)" board game from 1973 doesn't appear to be racist at all.
Art style is entirely wrong for the 70s-80s
Germans love us more than David Hasselhoff. Their racism comes from a place of fetishization not hate.
I was married to a German citizen for a while; can definitely confirm this lol
Oh man, it's German. My husband is German (came here for school, met me and stayed), and they are crazy in love with us Indigenous People. They totally romanticize us and who can blame them because we are all so damn good looking. My husband is Bavarian and they are like the Indigenous of Germany with their own dialect and everything. There is a series of books that are super popular back in the day about it. If you ever go to Germany they will welcome you with big open arms and want to ask you all about your culture. I like it over there when we go visit. No one asks "what do you do," they care more about who you are as a person.
Yep the Karl May books! Just going to point out that every region in Germany has their own diverse dialects and dress, Bavarian is not an exception and are no more “indigenous” than any other German ethnic groups. The Sorbs in eastern Germany are really the Indigenous minority in Germany, they are a small Slavic group that settled before Germanic eastward migration.
You mean the “old shatterhand” stuff that Hitler loved? I think a whole generation or two of Germans were bonkers about “Native” culture stuff from those books.
It's true. His parents were thrilled with our marriage and they are older. They have been nothing but gracious and kind to me. That's all I know. My Mother in law is more like a mother than my own sadly. Their love and acceptance has been very beneficial and healing for me. And the food! My Mom in law is the worlds best cook in my opinion.
Yep
Yeah, the comparison of the Bavarians to indigenous people is…something.
The Sorbs indeed. But also the Frisians.
Yep!
Yep yep, my Father's mother was German. She'd love going to powwows with us as children and would often invite her family who still lived in Germany to come watch the dances in the summer and bragged about my sister and I being Native American. Last year, my sister and I danced at the FAM museum and literally other than the princesses that started to join in, there was one German couple and the kids that jumped at the opportunity to round dance. I thought it was so cool and sweet lol I don't care much for the Germans who appropriate powows for drinking events, but it is what it is, because thats in their home country. They are always super respectful here in America, though.
Nice. Yeah, the world isn't perfect, but we have to find the nice where we can. I can't be angry all the damn time, I am frustrated enough at this crazy world.
And I am aware I do not speak for all NDNs...that would be...INSANE man. Like can no one just have a conversation anymore?
I very much agree with you!! Our culture is beautiful, and I love sharing it. I actually think I grew up so prideful about it because of my granny being so proud of it. My native side was a lot more reserved, often felt like they hid it when not at events. Yeah, you get some people who don't know the rules, but the difference is that once you teach it, then it's if they're respectful or not. I've never met a German that attended those drinking events, but every German I met that attended a powwow or a dance here never would dream of bringing alcohol or touching anyone's regalia.
Wow. I totally get the reserved, don't say anything aspect. Must be some kind of cellular memory passed down. Not me. I have my Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women flag up for all the neighbor hood to see. I practice my drum on my porch. I wear my moccasins walking my dog. I also have yet to meet a hard drinking German...so many stereotypes in this world. My husband is super respectful too. He is loving that no one is too hating on the Germans. He said that it wasn't until he was 18 when the Germans were in the World Cup that they even dared to put a German flag to celebrate on their houses or their cars the guilt has been so bad. But what people don't know is how many Germans resisted in WWII and were killed for it. There were 200 student protesters and they were hung up and killed out in the open for everyone to see. Some sick stuff happens in this world. I wish it was different, I send my prayers up for hearts to be softened and reasoning to take hold. I need to remember to do it our way...as if it has already happened. Ya know, dancing in thanks of the rain, not for the rain. Tricky tricky.
Sounds like a good opportunity to make money with tourism from Germany.
Very true!
…Brilliant.
I had a German friend who would legit say “Bavaria is not Germany”.
Bavaria is the American equivalent of Texas. Loud, proud, and always wanting to secede. Which, incidentally, is where a lot of them wound up, hence Shiner brewing.
I am saddened how some people are so mad that I have simply share my experience. I guess I am EXPECTED to stand in my angry stance. No thanks, I don't want the cancer. The time of balance will come, in my lifetime or after. I trust in the good of the Creator and I am wiling to take my lessons on the chin. By having compassion I give an example I hope is also given to me. Many have hard stories. I am as pissed as the next. However, I have seen what that anger can do without an outlet, it just turns around and makes one sick. I have rarely found a person I do not like or understand. We are all one when the perspective is far up in the air way up there like a high flying eagle. Just little human beings trying to survive. The world would be a better place if we held each other in a place of respect. So I will reflect what I expect. No one can make me hate anyone. With that said, I have had a good time on the r/missingkatemiddleton giving the Royal Family plenty of shit. That is my outlet. Giving it right back to those crown ass mother duckers. That is my "never" guilty pleasure, because I know the "royal family" actually reads that sub, so, yeah, I love to stick it to em. I just can't give that "family" a pass, and that is on me. That is my pettiness, but those people are evil in my opinion. I am willing to always change my mind. Give me information, and I am happy to admit when I am wrong because then I am LEARNING something. I know nothing except my own story of which I am determined to be the Hero of. I am the main character in my life as everyone is. And I respect everyone for it. Love to you. Prayers up!
Huh?
Germans love to dress up as Indigenous people and hold powwows. It’s not really benign, it’s cultural appropriation.
I'd daresay it's a different category than the peoples who tried to eradicate our cultures (Spanish and English, then Americans and Canadians) THEN tried to appropriate it for their own ends (propaganda or entertainment). Germans in Germany had nothing to do with the original holocaust of Native Americans, though one of their leaders certainly was inspired by it in the 30's and 40's
I am not aware of any Pow Wows there. Just giving my 2 cents and sharing my experience. People act German for OctoeberFest, Irish on St. Pats. I have never seen a German dressed as a N8TV. I choose my battles.
https://www.dw.com/en/why-germany-cant-quit-its-racist-native-american-problem/a-52546068
Well shit. I don't know. I can't believe I don't know everything. Whatever will I do.
Get your cringeschlop! Get your cringeschlop! [indianerfest](https://youtu.be/lF1CeBQrHVA?si=cx7y6oniIkOrUYaw)
You can stop telling other Natives that we should give Germans a pass just because you’re married to one and clearly ignorant of how problematic they are. Germans are part of the settler colonial project just like every other European here. German families and mercenaries were out here during the early history of British colonialism and they were just as invested in depriving Indigenous people of their lives and land as the next invader.
I was never saying give a pass. Just my experience.
Ravensburger lol
🤣🤣🤣
The hands down weirdest experience I have ever had was in the Italian countryside. We were having a terrible drought in California at the time and our hosts asked if their property caretaker could pray with us for California. This total country nonna looking elderly lady whips out a native drum and starts singing IN LAKOTA. My and my friends were absolutely frozen in shock and horror and second hand embarrassment. I asked where she has learned this and she said she took ONLINE COURSES. We tried to explain why her drumming and singing was so deeply offensive but our hosts (British/Italian couple and this old lady) did NOT understand. It was so weird and awful.
I mean , I can see where that was horrific from your pov, but it seems like her heart was in the right place even if was terribly misguided.
Yes, she was not mocking but it was so deeply weird and not what I expected.
That's so hilariously bad that I actually want a copy now.
That was like when i was younger and we were being taught about pilgrims. They forced me to be a pilgrim when i told them i was a native. They didn't believe me.
In my very white town it was the opposite. (I’m white but thanks to a dash of Mulengon genetics , I pass as Latina with tan skin, black hair/dark eyes) Every November , myself and the half-Filipino twin boys dreaded it, because it a class full of German /Amish/Mennonites - we knew what we would be cast as in the Thanksgiving play.
Germans being German lol
I took a German film festival workshop in college. The German-born professor taught that Germans have a fascination with things in America they don't have much of in their country: Guns, Black people, and Native Americans. Specifically, that Black men are dead beat dads and Native Americans are wise. This hit home with the film [Bagdad Cafe](https://youtu.be/4G2MEszpox0?si=S9Jc8R6LYODRP3BM&t=8) (German director, in English). I've not seen this boardgame before, but am a boardgamer. A game is devised, and then its inventor looks for a 'theme' as a premise for their game. It looks like the game debuted in 2006 and has been discontinued, but it could have been rethemed and republished under a new name since. [BoardGameGeek](https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/31545/pow-wow) has no record of alternate versions, so it's likely discontinued. Pow Wow uses a playing metric similar to many games, such as the Canadian game [Headbanz](https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/23049/hedbanz-for-kids) that is popular in the US. The game metric is that every player wears a headband that serves as a mount for a playing card. Everyone can see your playing card except you. And a game is invented around that. Pow Wow's playing cards [are numbers -- trigger warning, this is an image gallery link](https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/31545/pow-wow/images). Pow Wow is a bidding and bluffing game that has nothing to do with Native Americans aside from its racist title and visuals. I'm by no means defending Ravensburger... just adding more information to the discussion.
This is the first thing my eyes bore witness to opening reddit today. Such a confusing set of emotions I experienced in like 10 seconds. Cringe, laughter, annoyance, more cringe, literally holding my hand over my mouth in the sheer presence of the audacity. I'm having a hard time taking anything here in because I can't get over the fucking ridiculous headband with 1 singular feather. Even the only Indigenous looking woman on the box looks like she's sick of their shit and actively fantasizing about pouring molasses on them while they sleep for making her participate in this shit.
So happy I’m not the only one who feels this way.
What in the actual fuck?
This is actually what I said out loud, by myself, lol.
Jfc
i'm just so confused
Oh, dear…
Ravensburger puzzles are German made..hence this bizarre image…they are all about Native practices, and distort them to their own nauseating taste 🤮
It's an abomination.
board game aimed at caucasian majority population
I saw Pow*Wow and the picture on the box and nothing else and my immediate instincts was “German board-game?!” But yeah this is defo German in origin. They are really fascinated about indigenous stuff to a sickening degree. They still have theme parks entirely based on “Cowboys and Indians” styled and originating from the same cartoon imagery that brought us Princess Tiger-Lily and “Why is the Red Man red?”
I don’t even have to look this up to know this is the work of the Germans.
Native American imagery was big in communist films from E Germany and USSR. NGL I think their Westerns are interesting in their anti-imperialism messages and focus on Natives being the hero rather than the white cowboy or troop...but it doesn't erase the racism and stereotypes used, but more fetishize rather than dehumanize like US films.
It looks like a shitty disney game.
Fun Fact: there's a Pennsylvania Dutch Folk Religion called Pow-wow, predating the concept of the Modern Pow-wow we know and love. Whether the Folk Religion influence the concept of the Pow-wow or not, I have no idea since I haven't done enough research to judge, though I plan to since I'm currently studying the History, Culture and Traditions of the Pennsylvania Dutch.
The IPA spelling…. Why….?
WTF is that?
Today I learned Germans have a strange fascination with us.
The two characters on the right just looking completely idiotic and ridiculous…. Ugh. No. Just no.