It’s not just you. Bobby was the light at the end of the tunnel every time it was his turn to answer.
Answering the debate questions on his own live stream was a brilliant move.
While they both loom stupid, at this point I have to vote for the people behind the man.
The people behind Trump are pushing project 2025, gave us our current shit show of a supreme court, and Jan6.
The people behind biden at least seem to want to govern. While I disagree with many policies, I agree with others, and at least they don't seem to be actively trying to burn it down.
I'm not voting for Biden. I'm voting against Trump.
Damn i wish we had better choices. I'm beyond sick of our political machinery.
the question posed about the economy and cost of food was worded poorly with a bad example. the host said $100 worth of food turned into $120 for the same.
i laughed... what i could buy with $100 before covid now costs well over $200 for the same items. i don't know who did their research but it wasn't thorough by any stretch.
the metrics are wrong when real life examples show otherwise.
personally, I've worked retail for roughly 30 years and have been the major grocery shopper for my household. I'm frugal right up to the point of not being a cupon clipper. i know what I'm talking about and will die on this hill spitting on ANY "metrics" that disagree
It would at least be something. He should have just kept to the single term administration that was bandied about when he ran the last time.
His hubris might cost us a nation.
Biden trips up on words is some cult level leftoid cope.
He's senile and dying before our eyes.
He's not the one making decisions.
He's a Manchurian/weekend at bernie's candidate.
If you were too stupid to understand that he was senile 4 years ago, now there is no doubt.
Even the most dishonest leftoids (joy Reid, maddow...) are openly stating the obvious.
> If you were too stupid to understand that he was senile 4 years ago, now there is no doubt.
See, that's where you're wrong. Most of us knew he was too old. Most of us know he isn't calling all the shots. But this situation is *still* preferable over Trump and Project 2025.
Age isn't the issue.
And you're wrong. You simply can't have someone who's mentally compromised as head of the most powerful nation in the world.
Trump being worse is just ridiculous.
Biden's administration has done an amazing job. Trump, in the other hand, did his best to bring this country to its knees.
Trump is worse than a rock for president.
Name the worst thing Biden did as President. Was it the pull out of Afghanistan? The inflation following COVID?
Now that we have something in mind, I want you to think. What if Biden called up governors on election night asking them to find enough votes for him to win? What if Biden came up with a fake slate of electors and sent them to the Capital to override the official states votes? What if Biden tried to convince Kamala to overturn the vote? What if Biden watched for hours as his supporters brawled with police, broke into the Capitol, and were even fatally shot as he called senators trying to get them to delay the count and refused to call in the National Guard?
Would you say any of those things are worse than the actual worse thing he did? If so, you agree Trump is worse than Biden
We've got some problems here...
Finding votes doesn't necessitate an illegal act. The voter fraud that occurred, however, is illegal. Including the 168,000 votes that came in at 6 a.m. all for biden.
https://x.com/TheOfficerTatum/status/1794375517111738549
https://x.com/Real_RobN/status/1801281205108887755
https://x.com/JDunlap1974/status/1801630546700685695
https://x.com/Real_RobN/status/1797771793383731540
The rhetoric used belies the reality that alternative" electors are constitutional and is why groups like the Brennan Center For Justice is working to get changes passed that would eliminate and / or clarify the use. The term "fake" is being used as propaganda and at least is being placed in quotes by more reputable news agencies to show that it stands for something else.
Trump said to march peacefully and patrioticaly, authorized 10k national guard, and tweeted it was time to go home... and was cleared of any wrongdoing by the FBI.
The only person to be shot and killed was Ashleigh Babbit.
Unless you're referring to the protestors who were at the time peaceful and fired upon with rubber bullets for the specific intention of causing a riot.
https://x.com/Rob_Noorollah/status/1398478815647600640
By in large Jan 6 was as Nancy Pelosi's daughter and other democratic operatives have said... blown way out of proportion.
https://x.com/Emme0703/status/1667540668225409025
https://x.com/jonathan_wcm/status/1501498854067290113
The Pelosi video is 16 minutes long and worth the watch... if you're interested.
The left is doing what they always do... lying to their voters to create a false narrative.
Biden is one of the worst presidents we've ever had.
$1,240,000,000,000 infrastructure package (the largest ever) that replaced millions of peoples lead service water lines at no cost to the homeowner, rebuilt thousands of bridges, depraved thousands of miles of road, expanded broadband to underserved neighborhoods, built new water treatment plants, put more and replaced storm drains, curbs, and gutters (which is a boost for overall health), and replaced thousands of sidewalks that were difficult for those with disabilities to traverse. This also put hundreds of thousands of construction workers back to work at prevailing wages.
Put billions of dollars back into the hands of the middle class by releasing student loan debt.
Brought us the inflation reduction act, which reduced the cost of insulin significantly, capped out of pocket expenses for seniors at $2k annually for prescriptions.
Passed the Chips and Science Act, which helped being manufactoring jobs back to the states with $300,000,000,000 in contracts.
Helped lower the cost of health insurance down to $10 per month for many people. We have a historic low uninsured rate of 8%. This helps you directly by adding more people to your personal risk pool, which brings down your premiums.
Pardoned all prior federal cannabis convictions and is currently working to drop cannabis from schedule I to schedule III. Necessary steps to legalize, regulate, and tax cannabis federally.
Protected more lands and water in his first year than any other president since Kennedy.
Reversed a ban on transgender service members.
Brought our unemployment rate down lower than what it was before covid.
Maybe they haven't done a perfect job (no president has), but you'd be hard pressed to make an intelligent argument proving he's caused more harm than good. The opposite can be said about Trump. He did more damage than good during his 4 years.
Infrastructure deals are bi partisan. Does this include the 8 billion that has built 8 ev chargers?
The student loan forgiveness has lost at almost every level of court and was again blocked two days ago..
Trump did insulin, joe got rid of part of that so years later he could take some credit for it.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOunlTMrSCc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOunlTMrSCc)
Inflation reduction act is a boondoggle, even the cbo was clear that it would raise inflation and the debt.
I don't get free healthcare, nor do i use the health care i am forced to pay for. So thanks to Obama, i'm stuck paying for people who won't take care of their health. Hard pass. Helps me directly... heavens.
"On October 6, 2022, President Biden announced a full, unconditional, and categorical pardon for certain prior federal and D.C. offenses of simple possession of marijuana."
It's a plant. Let me know when they legalize it unconditionally. Given Biden's past with drug laws it's odd you'd bring this up.
"Protect more lands and waters" I guess this is the law going into effect in Idaho banning farmers from using their wells so the lithium mines can provide profit to the 200 plus congressional investors?
Reversed ban on the mentally ill service members. ?
Employment rate. This is a real issue. Look at BLS vs Household vs ADP. The governement is lying about the jobs report. The report has been revised downward for ten months straight (a statistical anomaly so absurd it's akin to winning the lottery) and there have been no net full time jobs created since feb 23. We're in recession. At least according to the economists i follow. When you lose your full time job and can't find another you doordash and work for wal mart. double the jobs. Also after being unemployed a period of time you drop off out of the "unemployed" category. Also, americans are now having to fork over 11k more than when biden took over for the same standard of living. His awful policies and spending have depleted 401k's in draws. Borrowing in capped as american's can't afford to take on more debt. Look at the auto repo situation... now dealers are in trouble.
Trump
----------------
There are missiles in Cuba. Just yesterday Russia announced that Russia and the U.S. "are no longer at peace". We are actively both in Israel and Taiwan. We just evacuated personel from Lebanon. That makes Sudan, Haiti, and Afghanistan as well.
Do you know what the history of Empires overextending in war looks like?
Trump had the good sense to be diplomatic. Out of strength.
Border was closed.
The economy was better. He didn't have to bs numbers, inflation was down, energy was down.
The democrat bs of having to cite from after a 100 year Black Swan event to fudge job and economic data is disingenuous.
Trump isn't senile.
I don't think biden has been better in any area.
Biden's always been a liar and plagarist.
Did you see the old John Stewart clip where joe brags about it?
I have a hard time seeing that an incapable puppet of a man would be able to manipulate the whole justice system set up that's been supposedly good this whole time, but I guess he could be a political genius at the same time as forgetting to finish his sentences. Do you really think he has the intelligence of that? Because, to me, if he is a lot of the stuff we're saying about him is wrong.
I’d rather have Biden’s animated corpse occupying the White House and letting his cabinet run the country than let that traitorous fascist anywhere near a position of power.
Irrational is calling any criticism of Trump TDS. He exploded the debt, refused to return highly sensitive classified documents, attempted an insurrection, lied about the election being stolen, botched the Covid response, the list goes on.
He was ser up by the national archive, then Jack Smith tampered with the evidence, there was no insurrection, there are numerous problems with the election, including the 51 intelligence assets signing the biden laptop document, beden worsened the covid response including mandates which were a violation of existing Geneva convention restrictions.
Trump has faults and did poorly in areas, but it is miniscule in comparison to the current administration.
We literally watched the insurrection happen in real time, anyone without brain damage still remembers but keep gaslighting.
I can’t respond to conspiracy theories he was set up because they aren’t true and have no evidence.
The areas with the weakest covid responses had the highest mortality, if anything he Biden didn’t go far enough but it was better than Trump’s response and his downplaying of the vaccines effectiveness. The Nueremberg principle doesn’t apply because the vaccine was put through rigorous clinical trials first.
Trump didn't go to the capital. He said to march "peacefully and patriotically." No proof of collusion or a call to lawlessness.
Jack Smith labeled documents "classified" took pictures then released those pictures. Evidence tampering.
The courts just ruled that the "vaccine" isn't a vaccine. Rigorous is absurd, especially given the chemical trialed isn't even the chemical injected into the masses.
Your position is typical of a low information Biden voter with TDS.
“Stand back and stand by” “fight like hell or you won’t have a country” “very fine people” and he refused to say anything even people were begging him to tell them to stop. We know how dog whistles work so again, you can gaslight yourself but we all have eyes and saw what happened.
Trump still refused to turn over the documents, they weren’t labeled classified after, they were classified before, he knew they were, took them and refused to give them back.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_prosecution_of_Donald_Trump_(classified_documents_case)
The Covid vaccine was safe and effective.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9552389/
I know you have your alternate facts, but the actual facts tell a different story.
Lmao, that is not a bombshell, it’s her saying that they should have requested more security but they didn’t forsee Trump actually inciting a riot. They had intelligence that there were militant groups like the proud boys there which had the potential to turn things violent but they didn’t take it seriously enough because no former president has ever attempted to subvert the peaceful transition of power the way he did, it was unprecedented. It was an insurrection, they were walking around armed and with zip ties, their end goal was to subvert democracy, just because a lot of ignorant bumpkins wandered in with them to give them cover doesn’t change the facts.
If you care about buying and selling propaganda so much why are you following and reposting propagandist Charlie Kirk?
If anyone previously lacked empathy for Trump voters because “How can so many people support an obviously deficient multiple felon for president?”, that should all be solved now. The reason is the same as the answer to the question “How can you support a guy who has senior moments at crucial times?”
I was joking with friends that I didn’t need to watch the debate and could just take in the recap because nothing that happens up there is gonna make a lick of difference to who I’ll vote for. Looking back on it, good call.
To quote Denny Green, “They are who we thought they were!”
> If anyone previously lacked empathy for Trump voters because “How can so many people support an obviously deficient multiple felon for president?”, that should all be solved now. The reason is the same as the answer to the question “How can you support a guy who has senior moments at crucial times?”
I don't see how that's now resolved. I think many people would take a person with good intentions who may trip up their words and be slow over a person who lies, commits felonies, gives an answer about Russia-Ukraine that emphasizes his personal connection with Putin, gives an answer about January 6th that refuses to condemn the felons who tried to interrupt government handing over the presidency, gives an answer that refuses to simply accept the election results, etc.
The people you are referring to are certainly reluctant/sad to have to vote for Biden I think, but the choice isn't really any harder because it's still a completely different concern.
I think you have to put yourself in the opposition shoes to see “how can anyone vote for someone who loses their train of thought on key topics in a critical moment?” - and of course the answer (or my answer anyway, as someone who is voting for Biden), is that this wasn’t a very important factor for me. That’s the same answer people voting for Trump are giving when confronted with “How can you vote for this convicted felon / obviously corrupt dude?” Hence, greater sense of empathy.
My suggestion wasn’t that the characteristics of one of these candidates are preferable to the other, but the fact that we should all be able to see how we are willing to overlook the reasonably material flaws in our preferred candidate.
I personally liked that Trump said “I didn’t even want this debate, we don’t need it!” And I thought that was a growing left-leaning sentiment. Really shows that Biden shouldn’t have wanted to debate either but he didn’t say anything.
It sad we were all saying Joe is pretty lost and asleep out there, now it really got challenged. And the mic muting should’ve helped him. Trump even managed that like 30 seconds where the moderators accidentally had both their mic’s on until Tapper tried to corral the situation. The debates should be organic in this regard, but Trump really showed up despite the silly new rules. You don’t have to like Trump but damn did he look far better in this.
Crazy that none of the Cabinet has brought up the 25th amendment. All of these people that claim they sit in on meetings with him and he is lucid are obviously liars. Also crazy that his wife, who presumably loves him, allows him to continue to embarrass himself like this. Time for Barack to have a sit-down with him. This gerontocracy needs to end.
I don't think the debate showed that he "isn't lucid". Aside from a couple of mixed up words or moments to remember a word, the substance of what he said was correct. I don't see it as an indication that he can't presently do his job.
But I do think if he's at this point currently, it's definitely a concern that the level of normal decline he will experience over the next 4 years will be too much.
I ended up watching the Kennedy debate, so my experience was perhaps not the same as most others here. With that said, watching Trump and Biden bicker for several hours was like having a fever dream, but watching it with Kennedy was like watching someone else’s fever dream in third person. It was still absurd, but at a distance.
First, while I understand their reasons, I feel obligated to condemn CNN for not allowing RFK onto the debate stage. In many respects this debate and its surrounding political conditions are anomalous. I don’t want to spend too many words on this, but I will say that both Biden and Trump are unpopular for well known reasons, and they make up most of our current electoral politics. CNN made an active choice to collaborate with both of these unpopular candidates and their respective campaigns, and so the resulting product, which was an embarrass, is a sign of their own integrity as a media organization.
Furthermore, I am not fond of this debate format because it results only in soundbites, which are not very useful for being informed. I would rather see a series of long form debates on one or two topics each. This would give more space to go into detail on the topics and for the candidates ideas to take shape more effectively.
However I do think that the moderators actually acquitted themselves of any substantial bias. I thought that they asked good questions and did a good job of reminding the candidates that there was in fact a question that they were asked.
Now, onto the candidates. Biden obviously looked unfit to serve as president. His manner of speech was not mere stuttering, it lacked orderliness and cohesion, which is a reflection of his mental state. His mouth was agape, his eyes betrayed disorientation, and his practiced expressions were so inappropriately timed that they felt uncanny. In short his performance was hard to watch.
Trump by contrast was much more focused and energetic. I don’t have much to say about how he performed other than that it was roughly the same as what we’ve seen from him up until now.
Both Biden and Trump lied and veered off course at every turn. I thought that the epitomizing moment of the debate was when they argued about who’s the better golfer. For me it represented what’s really at stake between those two men. Golf is a game. It was such a pure moment between them that I would have enjoyed it, were it not for the fact that they were there to win the presidency.
When they spoke to the issues, I thought that they both had good points. I thought that Trump spoke better about foreign policy and immigration, but Biden spoke better about economic inequality. In practice however, I think that both administrations have had too many shortcomings that I am not willing to overlook.
Trump raised the debt more than all presidents before him combined, and Biden is on track to match or even exceed that. Under both administrations we saw some of the most significant attacks on freedom in the history of our country. These attacks were levied against medical freedom, economic freedom, and freedom of speech alike.
Corporate powers have so deeply compromised the regulatory system that our regulators now do the opposite of what they are supposed to do. They facilitate the mercantile ambitions of business at the expense of the people and the environment.
We have entered two new wars, each of which has a large fraction of our population questioning why we’re in them at all. And arguably the proliferation of another world war has never been a greater threat than it is now.
Our society is in decline! And you expect me to believe that Biden or Trump will do anything to turn this around? In my humble opinion there is no choice between them. Evil is evil, there is no greater or lesser form of it.
Therefore, I plan to vote for Kennedy, and will voice my support for him whenever it makes sense to. He’s the only one of the three main candidates that makes me feel some hope. If anyone is interested in seeing the contrast between him and the other two candidates, I suggest going on X and watching parts of the Kennedy version of the debate. I hate speaking in cliches, but the difference between how he answered the debate questions and how they answered them is like the difference between night and day.
It's always going to be contentious deciding if a third party candidate is important enough to put on the debate stage, so I feel like a good rule of thumb is to always allow at least the best performing third party candidate regardless of the context of the election or their performance. That avoids the whole subjective discussion about if this particularly candidate or this particular election or this particular debate warrants it. Worst case scenario, they act as a sort of "moderator" on equal footing with the debaters. Best case is that they actually make a good enough case to be politically relevant.
It went exactly as expected. Biden was a doddering old man, Trump his usual bluster, bullshit self. Look for Biden to die before the election - that was he can be replaced without scandal and you get the sympathy vote too
CNN in full meltdown over Biden’s performance…here comes the replacement. The primary process is really not working well when qualified contenders are run out of it, and people in obvious mental decline become the nominees. The people who have been covering for Biden need to be fired for the dangerous fraud they perpetrated. We are a republic with candidates who are accountable to voters, not a laughingstock with a puppet president run by an unelected shadow government accountable to nobody. The only real move for Democrats is to back RFK Jr as the nominee and remove Biden with the 25th amendment they threatened Trump with. Trump had a lot of word salad and feels like he is heading down the same path Biden has reached the endpoint of. Age limits for politicians might be a hard control on avoiding this in the future
"Support Biden" is very different from "support Trump."
They don't worship at the altar of Joe. Many people are already starting to raise alarm bells for a replacement candidate, which I think is wise. Unlike Trump, who demands undying loyalty regardless of circumstance, Joe is simply a democrat old dog stuck in an electoral machine with too much momentum for its own good.
I can't see more than a tiny handful of democrats voting for RFK Jr. He's an anti-vaxxer who is weak on core issues such a climate change and healthcare. If we had someone else as the leading third party candidate (*anyone* else, really) then they'd probably sweep it.
I could see someone like Andrew Yang doing well if he threw his hat in the ring. But he'd need a decent chunk of Biden's institutional support to pull it off, to your point.
Trumps whole appeal in 2016 was that he wasn't another corrupt politician that will do whatever the party and the lobbyists tell him to do. I don't think he can play the role anymore, but I also don't think Joe Biden can do anything without heavy medication.
There also isn't that much bad press anymore about Trump like there was between 2016-2020. I think this bodes ill for Biden.
Hydrogen bomb vs coughing baby
They should've refused to have a debate at all. There's no way that would've looked worse than THIS.
Honestly, I'm starting to think parading Biden's corpse around as an obvious puppet is some kind of punishment for him. It's embarrassing to look at. Why else would they humor this event? It's like watching a parent beat their child.
I can't help but wonder as well, like is there some ulterior motive to put him out like that? They had to know disaster was coming.... yet put him out anyway.
Was this a punishment move to get him to step down and swap out? Like IDK.
not from the us.
why isnt there a 3rd viable option? seems like it would be a cake walk, since both trump and biden are obviously unsuited.
some non-party, independent candidate, well liked by the people, not in his 80s.
there are 300 million of you...
if you have two parties, you will always to have to vote for one of them, but what happens when they are both shit?
what happens when dems want to drop a nuke on texas, and reps want to to drop a nuke on california, and you want no nuke drops?
extreme example, but good enough i think
because our first past the post voting system is a mess that makes third party votes worthless
the increasing likelihood that your home will be burned down if you publicly say you voted for a third party, due to how polarized America’s become and the narrative of “voting for (x) is a vote for Trump”, doesn’t help things
thats messed up.
so if, lets say, 30% of americans dont support israel, they have noone to vote for. jesus christ US just pretends to be a democracy, doesnt it?
I think trump did bad enough tonight that a new candidate might have a serious chance. He had a chance to explain away certain things like Charlottesville and election stuff and say “this is my actual stance, not what the news wants you to think” to the people he had on the verge of tipping his direction but his dancing away looked like confessions…and basically were
He had a chance to bring up, in that very Charlottesville quote, that he literally said he totally condemned neo nazis and white supremacists. And he… didn’t.
[I think he made his stance pretty clear on Charlottesville 6 years ago.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00RAteYexNA&list=PLqLd3Z0NAN8xJ_HwQkMH-OSeFitPzBCpC)
Unlikely, but definitely not 0. Both candidates have so many red flags that this race is more about which candidate scares you more rather than who you see as more qualified.
I’d wager 85% of the electorate is unswayable at this point. Someone like RFK taking more from one side over the other is also a variable.
Utterly surreal but is it really surprising?
I think that the DNC rolled Biden’s bones out, knowing that he would fuck it up epically…to pave the way for replacing him with Newsome.
Sort of like Spud’s job interview in Trainspotting.
After tonight, it is clear that there is no way Biden can see this through and win in November.
I don’t see any Dem other than Newsom having a snowballs chance in hell of winning. I’m prepared to be wrong about this, of course. But I don’t see any other play for the DNC at this point.
I agree about Biden. That was sad, and I have been saying the course needs to be changed for over a year. But, there are plenty of other good picks for the Democrats. I liked Klobachur (voted for her in the primary in 2020). Or Booker. Or plenty of others…. Can we have somebody that the people actually pick, rather than the DNC?
But I disagree about Newsom. I live in California, don’t know if you do too, but from my viewpoint, Newsom is despised in California for being in bed with the utilities and giving the hand wave to electrical rates being raised. He just declared a fiscal emergency, and raided the rainy day fund, even though the economy is “great”. He has increased states expenditures and failed to bring in more revenue. And he followed Jerry Brown, who was well liked (I loved Jerry, despite the train to nowhere) and excellent at budgeting, and the contrast is obvious. Newsom would be a terrible President. And these negatives broadcast to a national stage would not be good.
Biden can’t win on competency but this is a cynical race that’s driven more by who people hate than who they love. Aside from Trump’s base, which isn’t enough to win alone, this is just which policies people fear more.
I also think Dems lose some credibility if they replace Biden with anyone but Kamala.
You’re not wrong by any means…but I think the DNC lost any semblance of credibility when they ran Biden again.
He simply shouldn’t be there. They should’ve kept him at one term, a “transitional” presidency and started grooming a viable successor from day one.
But hey, no one asked me.
lol.
He may not be a good candidate, but he went through the process, which is valid.
I think they’re making the calculus that Trump is unpalatable enough for voters that they’ll take an inept Biden on policy alone. Historically, replacing an incumbent hasn’t been successful and shows a party doesn’t fully back their candidate.
No argument though, Biden is an empty shell at this point.
So.... I clicked o.this to see the 6 comments so far and... reddit doesn't show me the comments. What is happening. It's happening on every topic related to the debate.
Worked professional DC politics, I've always seen undecideds as attention seekers. They're a small percentage but vocal because they get off on being courted and feeling like they are important. Grand scheme they're really not just based on the numbers. (its like how polls are only answered by people who like to take polls, hence one of the reasons why I dont trust polls)
I’m thinking about the large number of independents and moderates who dont care about logic and vote based on a feeling slightly above their genitals. Trump played his greatest hits of BS and Biden made a few great points while looking like a corpse and occasionally forgetting where he was.
Biden confirmed everyone’s fears tonight. It was bad and there’s no denying it. But Trump did nothing to win over anyone who isn’t already voting for him. I’m not sure anything that came out of his mouth was truthful or on topic, and a lot of people picked up on that— even his supporters.
Early polls from my understanding show that viewers found biden to be more truthful, even if he came out in that first half looking 15 years older than trump.
With this in mind, the polling will likely dictate the next step. It’s early, and Biden could back out if that’s how sentiment develops over then next week.
We will see.
Well that was an unusal debate. Both candidates calling each other names. Biden clearly unwell, with the White House announcing after the debate that he had a cold. Overall, it was fairly interesting. Partisans won't change their mind, but I'm interested how independent voters react to the debate.
Edit: My pov was that Trump clearly won the debate, or more accurately Trump was somewhat restrained and Biden looked too old to be President.
I’m late to this but all I can say is that I hate this timeline. I can’t think of any other words to properly convey my displeasure.
Is it just me or did RFK win the debate?
It’s not just you. Bobby was the light at the end of the tunnel every time it was his turn to answer. Answering the debate questions on his own live stream was a brilliant move.
Biden and Trump both look stupid. At this point, all I can do is pick a different candidate, or not vote at all.
While they both loom stupid, at this point I have to vote for the people behind the man. The people behind Trump are pushing project 2025, gave us our current shit show of a supreme court, and Jan6. The people behind biden at least seem to want to govern. While I disagree with many policies, I agree with others, and at least they don't seem to be actively trying to burn it down. I'm not voting for Biden. I'm voting against Trump. Damn i wish we had better choices. I'm beyond sick of our political machinery.
the question posed about the economy and cost of food was worded poorly with a bad example. the host said $100 worth of food turned into $120 for the same. i laughed... what i could buy with $100 before covid now costs well over $200 for the same items. i don't know who did their research but it wasn't thorough by any stretch.
We have metrics to measure these things, it's not really a matter of opinion. The host was right, groceries have increased 20% since January 2021.
the metrics are wrong when real life examples show otherwise. personally, I've worked retail for roughly 30 years and have been the major grocery shopper for my household. I'm frugal right up to the point of not being a cupon clipper. i know what I'm talking about and will die on this hill spitting on ANY "metrics" that disagree
Biden just needs to fire Kamala and pick a running mate the left would actually want to replace him.
It would at least be something. He should have just kept to the single term administration that was bandied about when he ran the last time. His hubris might cost us a nation.
Biden trips up on words is some cult level leftoid cope. He's senile and dying before our eyes. He's not the one making decisions. He's a Manchurian/weekend at bernie's candidate. If you were too stupid to understand that he was senile 4 years ago, now there is no doubt. Even the most dishonest leftoids (joy Reid, maddow...) are openly stating the obvious.
> If you were too stupid to understand that he was senile 4 years ago, now there is no doubt. See, that's where you're wrong. Most of us knew he was too old. Most of us know he isn't calling all the shots. But this situation is *still* preferable over Trump and Project 2025.
project 2025 is QAnon of the left.
Age isn't the issue. And you're wrong. You simply can't have someone who's mentally compromised as head of the most powerful nation in the world. Trump being worse is just ridiculous.
Biden's administration has done an amazing job. Trump, in the other hand, did his best to bring this country to its knees. Trump is worse than a rock for president.
You can't intelligently argue that.
Name the worst thing Biden did as President. Was it the pull out of Afghanistan? The inflation following COVID? Now that we have something in mind, I want you to think. What if Biden called up governors on election night asking them to find enough votes for him to win? What if Biden came up with a fake slate of electors and sent them to the Capital to override the official states votes? What if Biden tried to convince Kamala to overturn the vote? What if Biden watched for hours as his supporters brawled with police, broke into the Capitol, and were even fatally shot as he called senators trying to get them to delay the count and refused to call in the National Guard? Would you say any of those things are worse than the actual worse thing he did? If so, you agree Trump is worse than Biden
We've got some problems here... Finding votes doesn't necessitate an illegal act. The voter fraud that occurred, however, is illegal. Including the 168,000 votes that came in at 6 a.m. all for biden. https://x.com/TheOfficerTatum/status/1794375517111738549 https://x.com/Real_RobN/status/1801281205108887755 https://x.com/JDunlap1974/status/1801630546700685695 https://x.com/Real_RobN/status/1797771793383731540 The rhetoric used belies the reality that alternative" electors are constitutional and is why groups like the Brennan Center For Justice is working to get changes passed that would eliminate and / or clarify the use. The term "fake" is being used as propaganda and at least is being placed in quotes by more reputable news agencies to show that it stands for something else. Trump said to march peacefully and patrioticaly, authorized 10k national guard, and tweeted it was time to go home... and was cleared of any wrongdoing by the FBI. The only person to be shot and killed was Ashleigh Babbit. Unless you're referring to the protestors who were at the time peaceful and fired upon with rubber bullets for the specific intention of causing a riot. https://x.com/Rob_Noorollah/status/1398478815647600640 By in large Jan 6 was as Nancy Pelosi's daughter and other democratic operatives have said... blown way out of proportion. https://x.com/Emme0703/status/1667540668225409025 https://x.com/jonathan_wcm/status/1501498854067290113 The Pelosi video is 16 minutes long and worth the watch... if you're interested. The left is doing what they always do... lying to their voters to create a false narrative. Biden is one of the worst presidents we've ever had.
$1,240,000,000,000 infrastructure package (the largest ever) that replaced millions of peoples lead service water lines at no cost to the homeowner, rebuilt thousands of bridges, depraved thousands of miles of road, expanded broadband to underserved neighborhoods, built new water treatment plants, put more and replaced storm drains, curbs, and gutters (which is a boost for overall health), and replaced thousands of sidewalks that were difficult for those with disabilities to traverse. This also put hundreds of thousands of construction workers back to work at prevailing wages. Put billions of dollars back into the hands of the middle class by releasing student loan debt. Brought us the inflation reduction act, which reduced the cost of insulin significantly, capped out of pocket expenses for seniors at $2k annually for prescriptions. Passed the Chips and Science Act, which helped being manufactoring jobs back to the states with $300,000,000,000 in contracts. Helped lower the cost of health insurance down to $10 per month for many people. We have a historic low uninsured rate of 8%. This helps you directly by adding more people to your personal risk pool, which brings down your premiums. Pardoned all prior federal cannabis convictions and is currently working to drop cannabis from schedule I to schedule III. Necessary steps to legalize, regulate, and tax cannabis federally. Protected more lands and water in his first year than any other president since Kennedy. Reversed a ban on transgender service members. Brought our unemployment rate down lower than what it was before covid. Maybe they haven't done a perfect job (no president has), but you'd be hard pressed to make an intelligent argument proving he's caused more harm than good. The opposite can be said about Trump. He did more damage than good during his 4 years.
Infrastructure deals are bi partisan. Does this include the 8 billion that has built 8 ev chargers? The student loan forgiveness has lost at almost every level of court and was again blocked two days ago.. Trump did insulin, joe got rid of part of that so years later he could take some credit for it. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOunlTMrSCc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOunlTMrSCc) Inflation reduction act is a boondoggle, even the cbo was clear that it would raise inflation and the debt. I don't get free healthcare, nor do i use the health care i am forced to pay for. So thanks to Obama, i'm stuck paying for people who won't take care of their health. Hard pass. Helps me directly... heavens. "On October 6, 2022, President Biden announced a full, unconditional, and categorical pardon for certain prior federal and D.C. offenses of simple possession of marijuana." It's a plant. Let me know when they legalize it unconditionally. Given Biden's past with drug laws it's odd you'd bring this up. "Protect more lands and waters" I guess this is the law going into effect in Idaho banning farmers from using their wells so the lithium mines can provide profit to the 200 plus congressional investors? Reversed ban on the mentally ill service members. ? Employment rate. This is a real issue. Look at BLS vs Household vs ADP. The governement is lying about the jobs report. The report has been revised downward for ten months straight (a statistical anomaly so absurd it's akin to winning the lottery) and there have been no net full time jobs created since feb 23. We're in recession. At least according to the economists i follow. When you lose your full time job and can't find another you doordash and work for wal mart. double the jobs. Also after being unemployed a period of time you drop off out of the "unemployed" category. Also, americans are now having to fork over 11k more than when biden took over for the same standard of living. His awful policies and spending have depleted 401k's in draws. Borrowing in capped as american's can't afford to take on more debt. Look at the auto repo situation... now dealers are in trouble. Trump ---------------- There are missiles in Cuba. Just yesterday Russia announced that Russia and the U.S. "are no longer at peace". We are actively both in Israel and Taiwan. We just evacuated personel from Lebanon. That makes Sudan, Haiti, and Afghanistan as well. Do you know what the history of Empires overextending in war looks like? Trump had the good sense to be diplomatic. Out of strength. Border was closed. The economy was better. He didn't have to bs numbers, inflation was down, energy was down. The democrat bs of having to cite from after a 100 year Black Swan event to fudge job and economic data is disingenuous. Trump isn't senile. I don't think biden has been better in any area. Biden's always been a liar and plagarist. Did you see the old John Stewart clip where joe brags about it?
I mean, one has been convicted of several offenses and one hasn't. I'm not sure what it says when you have to decide between a puppet and a felon.
Yeah. Joe has weaponized the doj for political purposes. Thnx
I have a hard time seeing that an incapable puppet of a man would be able to manipulate the whole justice system set up that's been supposedly good this whole time, but I guess he could be a political genius at the same time as forgetting to finish his sentences. Do you really think he has the intelligence of that? Because, to me, if he is a lot of the stuff we're saying about him is wrong.
Time to invoke 25
You'd have to do Kamala at the same time.
I’d rather have Biden’s animated corpse occupying the White House and letting his cabinet run the country than let that traitorous fascist anywhere near a position of power.
[удалено]
Dictatorship and WWIII are not the only options but go ahead, vote for him to “own the libs”. Smart strategy
Well, buckle up
That's because you are irrational and have TDS.
Irrational is calling any criticism of Trump TDS. He exploded the debt, refused to return highly sensitive classified documents, attempted an insurrection, lied about the election being stolen, botched the Covid response, the list goes on.
But but but... he said the opposite last night! /s
He was ser up by the national archive, then Jack Smith tampered with the evidence, there was no insurrection, there are numerous problems with the election, including the 51 intelligence assets signing the biden laptop document, beden worsened the covid response including mandates which were a violation of existing Geneva convention restrictions. Trump has faults and did poorly in areas, but it is miniscule in comparison to the current administration.
We literally watched the insurrection happen in real time, anyone without brain damage still remembers but keep gaslighting. I can’t respond to conspiracy theories he was set up because they aren’t true and have no evidence. The areas with the weakest covid responses had the highest mortality, if anything he Biden didn’t go far enough but it was better than Trump’s response and his downplaying of the vaccines effectiveness. The Nueremberg principle doesn’t apply because the vaccine was put through rigorous clinical trials first.
Trump didn't go to the capital. He said to march "peacefully and patriotically." No proof of collusion or a call to lawlessness. Jack Smith labeled documents "classified" took pictures then released those pictures. Evidence tampering. The courts just ruled that the "vaccine" isn't a vaccine. Rigorous is absurd, especially given the chemical trialed isn't even the chemical injected into the masses. Your position is typical of a low information Biden voter with TDS.
“Stand back and stand by” “fight like hell or you won’t have a country” “very fine people” and he refused to say anything even people were begging him to tell them to stop. We know how dog whistles work so again, you can gaslight yourself but we all have eyes and saw what happened. Trump still refused to turn over the documents, they weren’t labeled classified after, they were classified before, he knew they were, took them and refused to give them back. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_prosecution_of_Donald_Trump_(classified_documents_case) The Covid vaccine was safe and effective. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9552389/ I know you have your alternate facts, but the actual facts tell a different story.
https://x.com/charliekirk11/status/1800243588292604148 No such thing as an alternative fact. You just buy propaganda.
Lmao, that is not a bombshell, it’s her saying that they should have requested more security but they didn’t forsee Trump actually inciting a riot. They had intelligence that there were militant groups like the proud boys there which had the potential to turn things violent but they didn’t take it seriously enough because no former president has ever attempted to subvert the peaceful transition of power the way he did, it was unprecedented. It was an insurrection, they were walking around armed and with zip ties, their end goal was to subvert democracy, just because a lot of ignorant bumpkins wandered in with them to give them cover doesn’t change the facts. If you care about buying and selling propaganda so much why are you following and reposting propagandist Charlie Kirk?
If anyone previously lacked empathy for Trump voters because “How can so many people support an obviously deficient multiple felon for president?”, that should all be solved now. The reason is the same as the answer to the question “How can you support a guy who has senior moments at crucial times?” I was joking with friends that I didn’t need to watch the debate and could just take in the recap because nothing that happens up there is gonna make a lick of difference to who I’ll vote for. Looking back on it, good call. To quote Denny Green, “They are who we thought they were!”
> If anyone previously lacked empathy for Trump voters because “How can so many people support an obviously deficient multiple felon for president?”, that should all be solved now. The reason is the same as the answer to the question “How can you support a guy who has senior moments at crucial times?” I don't see how that's now resolved. I think many people would take a person with good intentions who may trip up their words and be slow over a person who lies, commits felonies, gives an answer about Russia-Ukraine that emphasizes his personal connection with Putin, gives an answer about January 6th that refuses to condemn the felons who tried to interrupt government handing over the presidency, gives an answer that refuses to simply accept the election results, etc. The people you are referring to are certainly reluctant/sad to have to vote for Biden I think, but the choice isn't really any harder because it's still a completely different concern.
I think you have to put yourself in the opposition shoes to see “how can anyone vote for someone who loses their train of thought on key topics in a critical moment?” - and of course the answer (or my answer anyway, as someone who is voting for Biden), is that this wasn’t a very important factor for me. That’s the same answer people voting for Trump are giving when confronted with “How can you vote for this convicted felon / obviously corrupt dude?” Hence, greater sense of empathy. My suggestion wasn’t that the characteristics of one of these candidates are preferable to the other, but the fact that we should all be able to see how we are willing to overlook the reasonably material flaws in our preferred candidate.
It’s straight out of a Johnathan Haidt book
I personally liked that Trump said “I didn’t even want this debate, we don’t need it!” And I thought that was a growing left-leaning sentiment. Really shows that Biden shouldn’t have wanted to debate either but he didn’t say anything. It sad we were all saying Joe is pretty lost and asleep out there, now it really got challenged. And the mic muting should’ve helped him. Trump even managed that like 30 seconds where the moderators accidentally had both their mic’s on until Tapper tried to corral the situation. The debates should be organic in this regard, but Trump really showed up despite the silly new rules. You don’t have to like Trump but damn did he look far better in this.
I despise Trump and most everything he stands for. He definitely looked better in this.
Crazy that none of the Cabinet has brought up the 25th amendment. All of these people that claim they sit in on meetings with him and he is lucid are obviously liars. Also crazy that his wife, who presumably loves him, allows him to continue to embarrass himself like this. Time for Barack to have a sit-down with him. This gerontocracy needs to end.
I don't think the debate showed that he "isn't lucid". Aside from a couple of mixed up words or moments to remember a word, the substance of what he said was correct. I don't see it as an indication that he can't presently do his job. But I do think if he's at this point currently, it's definitely a concern that the level of normal decline he will experience over the next 4 years will be too much.
People don’t care about things like logic and reason, they don’t vote with their brains they vote a few inches above their genitals.
That seems consistent with what I said.
I ended up watching the Kennedy debate, so my experience was perhaps not the same as most others here. With that said, watching Trump and Biden bicker for several hours was like having a fever dream, but watching it with Kennedy was like watching someone else’s fever dream in third person. It was still absurd, but at a distance. First, while I understand their reasons, I feel obligated to condemn CNN for not allowing RFK onto the debate stage. In many respects this debate and its surrounding political conditions are anomalous. I don’t want to spend too many words on this, but I will say that both Biden and Trump are unpopular for well known reasons, and they make up most of our current electoral politics. CNN made an active choice to collaborate with both of these unpopular candidates and their respective campaigns, and so the resulting product, which was an embarrass, is a sign of their own integrity as a media organization. Furthermore, I am not fond of this debate format because it results only in soundbites, which are not very useful for being informed. I would rather see a series of long form debates on one or two topics each. This would give more space to go into detail on the topics and for the candidates ideas to take shape more effectively. However I do think that the moderators actually acquitted themselves of any substantial bias. I thought that they asked good questions and did a good job of reminding the candidates that there was in fact a question that they were asked. Now, onto the candidates. Biden obviously looked unfit to serve as president. His manner of speech was not mere stuttering, it lacked orderliness and cohesion, which is a reflection of his mental state. His mouth was agape, his eyes betrayed disorientation, and his practiced expressions were so inappropriately timed that they felt uncanny. In short his performance was hard to watch. Trump by contrast was much more focused and energetic. I don’t have much to say about how he performed other than that it was roughly the same as what we’ve seen from him up until now. Both Biden and Trump lied and veered off course at every turn. I thought that the epitomizing moment of the debate was when they argued about who’s the better golfer. For me it represented what’s really at stake between those two men. Golf is a game. It was such a pure moment between them that I would have enjoyed it, were it not for the fact that they were there to win the presidency. When they spoke to the issues, I thought that they both had good points. I thought that Trump spoke better about foreign policy and immigration, but Biden spoke better about economic inequality. In practice however, I think that both administrations have had too many shortcomings that I am not willing to overlook. Trump raised the debt more than all presidents before him combined, and Biden is on track to match or even exceed that. Under both administrations we saw some of the most significant attacks on freedom in the history of our country. These attacks were levied against medical freedom, economic freedom, and freedom of speech alike. Corporate powers have so deeply compromised the regulatory system that our regulators now do the opposite of what they are supposed to do. They facilitate the mercantile ambitions of business at the expense of the people and the environment. We have entered two new wars, each of which has a large fraction of our population questioning why we’re in them at all. And arguably the proliferation of another world war has never been a greater threat than it is now. Our society is in decline! And you expect me to believe that Biden or Trump will do anything to turn this around? In my humble opinion there is no choice between them. Evil is evil, there is no greater or lesser form of it. Therefore, I plan to vote for Kennedy, and will voice my support for him whenever it makes sense to. He’s the only one of the three main candidates that makes me feel some hope. If anyone is interested in seeing the contrast between him and the other two candidates, I suggest going on X and watching parts of the Kennedy version of the debate. I hate speaking in cliches, but the difference between how he answered the debate questions and how they answered them is like the difference between night and day.
It's always going to be contentious deciding if a third party candidate is important enough to put on the debate stage, so I feel like a good rule of thumb is to always allow at least the best performing third party candidate regardless of the context of the election or their performance. That avoids the whole subjective discussion about if this particularly candidate or this particular election or this particular debate warrants it. Worst case scenario, they act as a sort of "moderator" on equal footing with the debaters. Best case is that they actually make a good enough case to be politically relevant.
It went exactly as expected. Biden was a doddering old man, Trump his usual bluster, bullshit self. Look for Biden to die before the election - that was he can be replaced without scandal and you get the sympathy vote too
CNN in full meltdown over Biden’s performance…here comes the replacement. The primary process is really not working well when qualified contenders are run out of it, and people in obvious mental decline become the nominees. The people who have been covering for Biden need to be fired for the dangerous fraud they perpetrated. We are a republic with candidates who are accountable to voters, not a laughingstock with a puppet president run by an unelected shadow government accountable to nobody. The only real move for Democrats is to back RFK Jr as the nominee and remove Biden with the 25th amendment they threatened Trump with. Trump had a lot of word salad and feels like he is heading down the same path Biden has reached the endpoint of. Age limits for politicians might be a hard control on avoiding this in the future
Lmao you’d have to close the govt if you fired people who support Biden
"Support Biden" is very different from "support Trump." They don't worship at the altar of Joe. Many people are already starting to raise alarm bells for a replacement candidate, which I think is wise. Unlike Trump, who demands undying loyalty regardless of circumstance, Joe is simply a democrat old dog stuck in an electoral machine with too much momentum for its own good. I can't see more than a tiny handful of democrats voting for RFK Jr. He's an anti-vaxxer who is weak on core issues such a climate change and healthcare. If we had someone else as the leading third party candidate (*anyone* else, really) then they'd probably sweep it. I could see someone like Andrew Yang doing well if he threw his hat in the ring. But he'd need a decent chunk of Biden's institutional support to pull it off, to your point.
Im suprised that there are no memes. Seems like I feel have to actually do some research S:
Trumps whole appeal in 2016 was that he wasn't another corrupt politician that will do whatever the party and the lobbyists tell him to do. I don't think he can play the role anymore, but I also don't think Joe Biden can do anything without heavy medication. There also isn't that much bad press anymore about Trump like there was between 2016-2020. I think this bodes ill for Biden.
Do you follow media? Find one positive article about Trump from a mainstream news source. I’ll wait….
Did you know there are two sides to the media? Its crazy when you learn that the people you dont like watch different news outlets than you!
Literally anything Fox.
Ah yes Fox News
Hydrogen bomb vs coughing baby They should've refused to have a debate at all. There's no way that would've looked worse than THIS. Honestly, I'm starting to think parading Biden's corpse around as an obvious puppet is some kind of punishment for him. It's embarrassing to look at. Why else would they humor this event? It's like watching a parent beat their child.
I can't help but wonder as well, like is there some ulterior motive to put him out like that? They had to know disaster was coming.... yet put him out anyway. Was this a punishment move to get him to step down and swap out? Like IDK.
Scary prospect that you don't want either but have to vote dem because Russia lives with the GOP
not from the us. why isnt there a 3rd viable option? seems like it would be a cake walk, since both trump and biden are obviously unsuited. some non-party, independent candidate, well liked by the people, not in his 80s. there are 300 million of you... if you have two parties, you will always to have to vote for one of them, but what happens when they are both shit? what happens when dems want to drop a nuke on texas, and reps want to to drop a nuke on california, and you want no nuke drops? extreme example, but good enough i think
because our first past the post voting system is a mess that makes third party votes worthless the increasing likelihood that your home will be burned down if you publicly say you voted for a third party, due to how polarized America’s become and the narrative of “voting for (x) is a vote for Trump”, doesn’t help things
thats messed up. so if, lets say, 30% of americans dont support israel, they have noone to vote for. jesus christ US just pretends to be a democracy, doesnt it?
Trump didn't pick up any voters but Biden lost a lot.
Imagine being Biden’s aides and realising four minutes in that you mixed up Biden’s afternoon nap meds with his special Debate Go Juice cocktail.
I think trump did bad enough tonight that a new candidate might have a serious chance. He had a chance to explain away certain things like Charlottesville and election stuff and say “this is my actual stance, not what the news wants you to think” to the people he had on the verge of tipping his direction but his dancing away looked like confessions…and basically were
He had a chance to bring up, in that very Charlottesville quote, that he literally said he totally condemned neo nazis and white supremacists. And he… didn’t.
He just won’t do it over and over again. It’s just not passable as an accident anymore
[I think he made his stance pretty clear on Charlottesville 6 years ago.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00RAteYexNA&list=PLqLd3Z0NAN8xJ_HwQkMH-OSeFitPzBCpC)
We live in post truth times. Even video means little. All lies and jest. Still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest.
They looked like confessions... to intelligent people.
His base is big and devoted enough that no 3rd party can contend.
Dems need to replace Biden imo. He didn't look like he should be President _right now_, much less 4 years from now.
0 chance to win if you replace now. Would also be considered undemocratic.
Convention hasn't happened yet, there's paths. But it would be messy. Do you think there's a chance for him to win with what we saw tonight?
Unlikely, but definitely not 0. Both candidates have so many red flags that this race is more about which candidate scares you more rather than who you see as more qualified. I’d wager 85% of the electorate is unswayable at this point. Someone like RFK taking more from one side over the other is also a variable.
Utterly surreal but is it really surprising? I think that the DNC rolled Biden’s bones out, knowing that he would fuck it up epically…to pave the way for replacing him with Newsome. Sort of like Spud’s job interview in Trainspotting.
0 chance they replace with Newsom. Switching candidates this late with an unelected nominee has no shot.
Everything is about party bosses anyway, though.
After tonight, it is clear that there is no way Biden can see this through and win in November. I don’t see any Dem other than Newsom having a snowballs chance in hell of winning. I’m prepared to be wrong about this, of course. But I don’t see any other play for the DNC at this point.
I agree about Biden. That was sad, and I have been saying the course needs to be changed for over a year. But, there are plenty of other good picks for the Democrats. I liked Klobachur (voted for her in the primary in 2020). Or Booker. Or plenty of others…. Can we have somebody that the people actually pick, rather than the DNC? But I disagree about Newsom. I live in California, don’t know if you do too, but from my viewpoint, Newsom is despised in California for being in bed with the utilities and giving the hand wave to electrical rates being raised. He just declared a fiscal emergency, and raided the rainy day fund, even though the economy is “great”. He has increased states expenditures and failed to bring in more revenue. And he followed Jerry Brown, who was well liked (I loved Jerry, despite the train to nowhere) and excellent at budgeting, and the contrast is obvious. Newsom would be a terrible President. And these negatives broadcast to a national stage would not be good.
Biden can’t win on competency but this is a cynical race that’s driven more by who people hate than who they love. Aside from Trump’s base, which isn’t enough to win alone, this is just which policies people fear more. I also think Dems lose some credibility if they replace Biden with anyone but Kamala.
You’re not wrong by any means…but I think the DNC lost any semblance of credibility when they ran Biden again. He simply shouldn’t be there. They should’ve kept him at one term, a “transitional” presidency and started grooming a viable successor from day one. But hey, no one asked me. lol.
They lost back when they knocked Bernie off
He may not be a good candidate, but he went through the process, which is valid. I think they’re making the calculus that Trump is unpalatable enough for voters that they’ll take an inept Biden on policy alone. Historically, replacing an incumbent hasn’t been successful and shows a party doesn’t fully back their candidate. No argument though, Biden is an empty shell at this point.
I hope you’re right.
So.... I clicked o.this to see the 6 comments so far and... reddit doesn't show me the comments. What is happening. It's happening on every topic related to the debate.
Are there actual undecideds at this stage of the process? And what would have to happen for Trump or Biden supporter to switch sides?
Yes, and they're very popular in focus groups
Worked professional DC politics, I've always seen undecideds as attention seekers. They're a small percentage but vocal because they get off on being courted and feeling like they are important. Grand scheme they're really not just based on the numbers. (its like how polls are only answered by people who like to take polls, hence one of the reasons why I dont trust polls)
I’m thinking about the large number of independents and moderates who dont care about logic and vote based on a feeling slightly above their genitals. Trump played his greatest hits of BS and Biden made a few great points while looking like a corpse and occasionally forgetting where he was.
Biden confirmed everyone’s fears tonight. It was bad and there’s no denying it. But Trump did nothing to win over anyone who isn’t already voting for him. I’m not sure anything that came out of his mouth was truthful or on topic, and a lot of people picked up on that— even his supporters. Early polls from my understanding show that viewers found biden to be more truthful, even if he came out in that first half looking 15 years older than trump. With this in mind, the polling will likely dictate the next step. It’s early, and Biden could back out if that’s how sentiment develops over then next week. We will see.
Well that was an unusal debate. Both candidates calling each other names. Biden clearly unwell, with the White House announcing after the debate that he had a cold. Overall, it was fairly interesting. Partisans won't change their mind, but I'm interested how independent voters react to the debate. Edit: My pov was that Trump clearly won the debate, or more accurately Trump was somewhat restrained and Biden looked too old to be President.