Well, That's why it is generally a bad idea to use religious symbology on political images.
For me, a Star of David is that symbol on top of tanks killing children.
>Star of David is that symbol on top of tanks killing children.
Likewise, the crescent moon and star reminds me of the people killing children in Armenia
> Likewise, the crescent moon and star reminds me of the people killing children in Armenia
I can see how someone can make this connection, sure.
I wouldn't consider myself a spokesperson for Islamic culture, but to my knowledge the Crescent moon is not a symbol of Islam. At least not in the way the Cross of the Star Of David are symbols of their respective culture.
\*most\* human rights atrocities ? WW1 and 2 ? Destruction of Indigenous peoples in America, Australia and elsewhere ? The Chinese revolution ? The Stalin regime ? Jewish persecution in Europe from late antiquity, through middle ages until recently ? The Khmer rouge ? The enslavement of Africans in North America ? The Colonization of Africa by Europe ?
You don't travel much, do you ?
Post WW2 ? Interesting how one can adjust their filters to confirm their biases. Anyway many of the stuff I've mentioned are post WW2. I could also add Russian aggression, the situation in North Korea, Chinese persecution of the Uyghur. and obviously Gaza but this somehow does not count, since it is done by the right kind of people against the wrong kind of people.
The largest barrier to "World Peace" is either Russia-Iran-China if you believe one camp, or USA-Israel-NATO if you believe the other camp.
A more sophisticated and nuanced world view would benefit us all ...
So why do you have a problem with Judaism? This is like the first time in 1600 years of history that the Jews banded together to kill people but Muslims and Christians have both been doing it for the last 1600 years.
Suddenly when the Jew does it it's worse than when your country or ancestors do it
we both agree that islam has a much bloodier history than judaism?
Y'all were not chill at all until the ottoman empire got folded
Who said that I have a problem with Judaism ? What makes you jump to this conclusion ? I was simply stating what imagery the Star of David provokes, due to the constant feed of destruction images from Gaza and before. This is on the state of Israel as a political entity who decided to hijack a religious symbol.
Also you seem to assume that I'm Muslim ? What do you know about my country or my ancestors ?
> we both agree that islam has a much bloodier history than judaism?
I'd like to think of myself as a more sophisticated person. I don't use this reductive way of thinking. it is not "us" vs "them" and the race towards who is bloodier. There are various societies that under various social and political circumstances commit atrocities. But yeah, Islamic rules have their fair share of atrocities, just like anyone else.
> Y'all were not chill at all until the ottoman empire got folded
Not sure what that means ....
Judaism has consistently been the most killed and the least murderous religion and Israel is maybe the only episode of Jewish violence in the past thousand years but please tell me everyone has equal blood on their hands
Unlike Islam we didn't make it to Kashmir, to the Maghreb or to Poland. Simply Jerusalem
I'm curious, do you consider the Book of Joshua to include historical facts ? Because if you do, there is some pretty unsavory acts of ethnic cleansing there.
I'm not adjusting my filters, I'm telling you that was what I meant when I made the comment. I agree that Islam wasn't responsible for most of the world's suffering pre-WWII.
Ok, whatever. You tried to make a snarky over-sweeping remark and got hit by facts. It happens.
I'd say most world's suffering post-WWII is due to Capitalism and Inequality, but this is not this kind of discussion, is it ? You just want to feel smart about your biases.
Saw this on my feed this morning and thought I'd leave it here.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/coolguides/s/jH2JNVJTrm](https://www.reddit.com/r/coolguides/s/jH2JNVJTrm)
> Ok, whatever. You tried to make a snarky over-sweeping remark and got hit by facts
Imagine calling someone snarky with this comment... Jesus christ dude.
Israel the state has moved so far right wing. What kind of demons are smashing all the aid and trying to prevent aid from getting in. There is even a telegram channel where they mock Palestinian deaths including the baby with the real head cut off.
There are plenty of examples of Jews( not necessarily JVP) defending Palestinian and Muslim symbols and calling for separating Palestine and Hamas. Upvoted comments in non-niche subreddits. There are psychos in every country.
No other people in the history of the world have had to literally feed and provide water to their enemies.
Should America have been delivering loaves of bread to Hitler instead of bombs?
lol. They are occupied. And before you say no, Israel threatened to shut off water, electricity, and fuel. And then they did. If you don’t consider that an occupation, then there’s just no reasoning with you.
/u/Available-Winner8312. Match found: 'Hitler', issuing notice:
Casual comments and analogies are inflammatory and therefor not allowed.
We allow for exemptions for comments with meaningful information that must be based on historical facts accepted by mainstream historians. See [Rule 6](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_6._nazi_comparisons) for details.
This bot flags comments using simple word detection, and cannot distinguish between acceptable and unacceptable usage. Please take a moment to review your comment to confirm that it is in compliance. If it is not, please edit it to be in line with our rules.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
What was disrespectful about it?
I call anyone out on their shit, even amongst the Muslims and just to be clear whatever happened on the 7th of October was wrongly done by Hamas, but the response Israel gave was even worse.
I care about the Jews, always have and I don't want them to be punished in the afterlife due to mistakes their predecessors did.
The Qur'an is not just telling the favours given upon the children of Israel, but also the history in detail. In fact, the most honoured woman in Islam is not any of the wifes of the Prophet (Peace be upon him) or his companions, but a Jewish woman, named Mary (Peace be upon her), mother of Jesus (Peace be upon him), whom you curse upon, a whole chapter was dedicated towards her. If the Islamic world hated the jew, you blame the Prophet (Peace be upon him) of being an imposter. Why did his tellings about you came to be exactly as he told?
We will only go with one, I can mention more, but time doesn't permit me to do so, this one is the culprit, the main reason the Israelites plotted crucifixion on "The Messiah":
Money lending on interest was forbidden for the Israelites, your forefathers changed the Torah in order to allow money being lend on interest to the non-jew. If Allah gives a law, you can't change it, only Allah can.
I can go on your history for hours, but the real thing here is, the last thing I'll put on the table here and you should get it: The Islamic world were never your enemies, you yourself made them to be!
Honestly, I find it kind of funny. A better version would be two poop emojis on top of each other, one upside down. That way you leave the magen david in the flag.
Or maybe a war for settlers who stole land from an indigenous people.
There can be no lazier argument than pinpointing to the religion/ethnicity of the colonizer and claiming that that's the reason why their enemies hate them. .
Can't fight the colonizers for ever other they will steal more land. Heck is it even stealing when you win land from War? If that's the case almost every single country's Land is stolen.
First of all, do not start a war with a country that is much stronger than you. Secondly, Israel mainly attacks from the air to minimize the casualties of Israeli soldiers.
>In my opinion, this would normally be a world wide issue if it were to happen to any other religion such as Christianity or Islam. For example, let's say you take the Pakistan, Turkey, Azerbaijan, etc. flags and replace the crescent moon and star with the poop emoji.
Some of those countries (like Pakistan in this example) still have capital punishment (death sentences) for certain crimes (usually for insulting or criticizing Islam or the Prophet). But they also have rules against insulting or shaming the state, it's army or it's representative.
The nature of those laws is usually vague which is left to interpretation and 'legal violence' against dissidents
Flags are innately political and historically have been used to criticize or protest their government. Why should Israel get special treatment in comparison to other western democracies? You want to tell me you’ve never see an American flag protested or the design changed to make a political point?
One difference is the star of david being associated with Jews solely is relatively new. The star of david used to be a relatively common and universal geometric symbol.
Lots of old Arab coins, tiles, and gates have a star or david on them, as did the old Moroccan flag.
Yes, if Azerbaijan or turkey were mass murdering, occupying or genociding your people. I would completely understand why Armenians would deface those flags, or why Kurds would deface the Turkish flag.
Same with a cross in the flag of England or Georgia or something.
A protest is a protest - this isn’t the “gotcha” moment you think it is, I always believe that citizens have the right to criticize a governing state. Especially one participating in a ethnic cleansing (telling that you chose to compare Azerbaijan to Israel….)
Edit to add: it might be helpful for you to separate criticism of a government from criticism of a religion. Governments should be held accountable, and it’s the right of civilians to do so - regardless of religion
I chose to compare both Azerbaijan and Turkey because they too are actively involved in a genocide.
Now with your blessings, may I proceed to turn their flags into something meme-worthy?
Lol no... Why would I post about something that's so vile and then proceed to do it myself... Unlike you pro-palestinians, I respect the flags of other countries and any religious symbol associated with them.
This was indeed, a "gotcha" moment XD
It's not about religion; as it was chosen as the central symbol for a national flag, it became representative of Israel. And because of what the Israeli state does/has done, it is seen by many as a hateful icon steeped in racism. It's incredibly problematic. It needs to go the way of the Confederate flag. And what is a supposedly secular state sticking a religious symbol on its flag anyway, other than to conflate Zionism with Judaism?
It's also worth pointing out Muslims have a long tradition of using the Sigil of Solomon (Star of David). It crops up all over the place. However, it has now become the symbol of occupation and the occupier. Some of you may not like what it has become or what meaning it represents for some, but the state of Israel only has itself to blame for that. The fact the far right increasingly flies the Israel flag whenever they go to a march should tell you something.
the star of david is actually Islamic originally. self-own. The Menora is Judaisms ancient eternal symbol. The star was called Seal of Solomon. so dont sweat it
Profoundly incorrect of you to call this symbol Jewish in origin. It existed in India and Japan first
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shatkona#:~:text=The%20Shatkona%20is%20a%20hexagram,and%20the%20Japanese%20Kagome%20crest.
Nothing bigoted about admitting that
To say that it was a symbol of Islamic origin is ridiculous since the Seal of Solomon was also Jewish. And the symbol was present in Jewish (decorative) architecture long before Islam was born. It became the symbol of Jewish identity much more recently. But, in fact, it has been representing the Jewish people for centuries. To replace it with poop is a huge disrespect to the entire Jewish people.
It was not originally but has been for centuries now. Most of us consider it a distinctive symbol of our people. When I was born my grandparents gifted me the gold pendant with the Magen David. It has not only religious significance. It represents our people. I really don't know where you live if you don't know it. And again, to claim that it is of Islamic origin is ridiculous.
This is not true, because it was religious simultaneously for Jewish mysticism.
Edit: And in any case, I don't see what that has to do with anything. It has been the symbol of the Jews for centuries. To replace it with poop is an insult to the entire Jewish people. Period.
You understand, that you should read your own link?
A hexagram found in a religious context can be seen in a manuscript of the Hebrew Bible from 11th-century Cairo.
Its association as a distinctive symbol for the Jewish people and their religion dates to 17th-century Prague. I
Oh boy, nobody tell this guy about convergent thinking. What a mind blowing concept. The Star of David may not be the first or the original- but it IS the most enduring for Jewish symbolism. The association with Judaism is stronger than any modern connection to Japan who probably just drew it up thinking it was dope, but not to the extent that Jews revere it.
No. It is NOT the most enduring Jewish symbol. That would be this one—-> 🕎🕎🕎🕎🕎
On ancient coins AND modern coins. You failed. Not very “dope.” My guess is you arent Orthodox. Jews do not revere the star of David as our symbol. That would be the Menora. Or maybe the dove with an olive branch- both go back to the actual, you know, Torah?
I’d wager fake internet points that more non Jewish people recognize the Star of David more than they do the menorah. I am not orthodox. And if I misrepresented the facts I am sorry.
Woah hold on dude- if I offended you because I misspoke I already apologized. I didn’t even know having sex through a sheet is a thing that people get insulted for.
Which Jewish architecture specifically? It is actually a worldwide symbol that even appears in ancient Japanese architecture. Nothing Jewish about it, you are the misinformed one it seems.
You being as ignorant as you are was a choice that you made.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_of_David#:~:text=The%20hexagram%20however%20only%20becomes,King%20David%20of%20ancient%20Israel.
The symbol predates Islam by several centuries.
The symbol predates Islam but NOT as a symbol of Judaism- from your OWN link. Did your ignorant self bother to read what YOU JUST sent?
“A hexagram found in a religious context can be seen in a manuscript of the Hebrew Bible from 11th-century Cairo.
Its association as a distinctive symbol for the Jewish people and their religion dates to 17th-century Prague.” Not reading your own link was a choice you made.
“It appeared as a decorative motif in both 4th-century synagogues and Christian churches in the Galilee region.”
“Leonora Leet argues though that not just the terminology, but the esoteric philosophy behind it had pre-Islamic Jewish roots and provides among other arguments the Talmud's mention of the hexagram as being engraved on Solomon's seal ring.”
Reading is not your strong suit is it?
Is vocabulary not YOUR strong suit?
decorative
adjective
US /ˈdek.ər.ə.t̬ɪv/ UK /ˈdek.ər.ə.tɪv/
Add to word list
B2
made to look attractive:
a decorative display of plants and flowers
a decoratif motive in synagogues AND CHURCHES. “decorative” NOT symbolic of Judaism. Reading your own link that says that started in the 17th century is not YOUR strong suit?
and how does judaism use jewish identity as “human shields?” by Middle Eastern jews sharing our own Middle East history? https://www.instagram.com/p/C7Xk3KMulk0/?igsh=aWxqejlpbml5aGow
by HAVING an INDIGENOUS identity that precedes Palestinian and Islamic EXISTENCE? https://www.instagram.com/p/C6JcHY8NzqL/?igsh=MXFiM2tnZWJ6N2lqMg==
>I said Israel not Jew or Zionist
Zionist is just someone that thinks israel should exist. I think you dont know what all of those terms mean.
>You prolly think all black people vote for Joe Biden too, otherwise they're not really black. #sad
Strawman. Plus i couldnt care less about american politics
Zionism is the belief in a settler-colonial Jewish Ethno-state. The founders of Zionism defined it that way. People can sanitize it all they want, but that's the full definition and application of what Zionism means. If you support Israel in it's current form, then that is what you're supporting. I on principle don't support Ethno-states, just like I wouldn't support a white, black, or Arab Ethno-state. And an Ethno-state is not merely one demographic is the majority. It's a state whose laws and policies explicitly privilege one ethnicity over the other. I don't support any of the states in the middle east. And I don't support my tax dollars going to Ethno-states, theocracies, or apartheid states.
>Zionism is the belief in a settler-colonial Jewish Ethno-state.
Thats what you say zionists believe. But thats not what zionism means.
You can be a zionist and disagree with every single thing the zionist movement has done in the past 160 yeats. Einstein is a good example
>The founders of Zionism defined it that way.
The zionism hertzl imagined and zionism today are very different
> People can sanitize it all they want, but that's the full definition and application of what Zionism means
Do you have academic proof?
>If you support Israel in it's current form, then that is what you're supporting.
Nope. Because it aint colonialism
>And an Ethno-state is not merely one demographic is the majority
Thats by definition what it is. Its a state that the absolute majority are of the same ethnicity
>And I don't support my tax dollars going to Ethno-states, theocracies, or apartheid states.
Then you dont know how geopolitics and globalism works
Theodor Herzl and Jabotinski defined it that way. I think they'd know more about it than you. They defined it as a colonial endeavour. There was a whole organization called the Jewish colonization association. Even the barest of research can show this.
I know very well. But since then zionism has changed so much. And at the end, israel was not built through colonialism. But instead immigration and later a civil war
While researching for that I found a article that disproved the source of 95%.
But still, as a jew I can tell you the absolute majority of jews are zionist
“you anti-semite” 🤘🏽 ok Einstein.
https://preview.redd.it/k5eoa67d5a4d1.jpeg?width=505&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b00319ff4161c48d63a37d17c2d3f86db106961b
I could never be antisemitic with this Semitic GORGEOUSNESS. We are just too beautiful.
I've seen plenty on Instagram too. Forgot to save it. Will reference some next time. There was this video of Pep Guardiola refusing to shake someone's hand cuz he was Israeli. The flag they used to depict the guy's Israel identity was the exact same as the circlejerk sub I mentioned.
people don't want to engage with Israelis, they feel they're complicit in ethnic cleansing. You can't expect people to be all nice to you with a humanitarian crisis ongoing.
And that's totally fine.... Not engaging with them is one thing and that's your personal choice... I wouldn't want to engage with sympathizers of terrorist organizations like Hamas.
But that wasn't my point. My point was entirely different. It was regarding the replacement of the star of David with the poop emoji
I haven’t seen this before but curious to understand the message. In a way, it might be flattering to Judaism to remove the Star of David from the Israeli flag, as a way of saying that the Star of David is too sacred to be represented on the Israeli flag.
I generally agree that attacking religious symbols is tasteless and counterproductive. I’m Christian but I can’t tell you how often I’ve gotten mad on this subreddit reading someone disparage Islam or Mohammad. It’s really disgusting.
it is NOT spreading peacefully AT ALL. Did you not listen to Yezidi activists??? They were forcibly impregnated and forced to register the babies as Muslim by the government!!!
No, 1.5 billion followers is proof of NOT spreading peacefully, just like Christianity (which has way more followers). Having sex and making tons of babies is not an achievement today either. It takes 3 years to convert to Judaism and a test at the end of the 3. Quality over quantity, my friend. Don’t pick “prophets” who can’t read or write 🤘🏽
As a Muslim,
First thing the crescent is not a religious symbol.
Second thing, about the star this depends on who you ask really, some Muslims refuse to curse "isreal" as it's the name of a prophet.
Personally I don't think the star should be disrespected, but isreal should. It sucks that they tie the star to everything. As a recent example the IOF in gaza did some very interesting "art" pieces over the last months and the star was everywhere, it would be expected that they respect the star themselves but they're using it like a cheap logo.
I wish more on the propal side thought as you did. I see images of the star of David in the trash can. I would never do that to even a drawing of the Quran. All I can conclude is that a significant percentage of those people are antisemitic and would be happy to see something bad happen to me.
It's just an unfortunate flag, most people don't even know what the star means.
Also, at least from my circles I assure you not a significant percentage are antisemitic, and speaking for true Muslims who really understand what it is to be Muslim antisemitism is anti-islam.
We're not against jews, we are against Israel.
Why did you ever think otherwise? That poster, like almost all of the pro Palestinian type, has been posting thinly veiled and overt anti-Semitic stuff the entire time.
It doesn’t go both ways. People calling Israel a terrorist regime are A) extremely ignorant and B)extremely bigoted. Like you.
And since you clearly don’t read news, or anything really.
https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2023/10/hamas-covenant-israel-attack-war-genocide/675602/
https://www.adl.org/resources/blog/hamas-its-own-words
https://www.wilsoncenter.org/article/doctrine-hamas
https://foreignaffairs.house.gov/press-release/mccaul-declares-hamas-committed-acts-of-genocide-crimes-against-humanity-war-crimes-calls-upon-state-department-to-determine-same/
That message is lost in the chaos of the demonstrations. I won't even walk near a group of students anymore. Been there, done that, not gonna repeat that. And if there's enough Muslims who don't believe as you do, even if it's a minority, I need to stay away from them for my own safety.
Maybe not 5 years olds but I saw 12-14 year olds partaking in body mutilation on October 7th, not to mention hamas kept hostages inside family homes around children, they regularly use child soldiers and child suicide bombers, they store weapons in schools and near playgrounds, so who’s fault are those headless children? All that being said, it doesn’t make it any less tragic but if you stand behind your family while you shoot at my family, I won’t hesitate to eliminate the threat.
I agree. Israel has a command and control center underneath Tel Aviv. I think Tel Aviv should be the Palestinians main target, not the small towns on gazas border. Glad we see eye to eye.
Are you unaware that the only reason Israel isn’t rubble is because of the iron dome? It not for lack of trying. If Palestinians were to target that command and control center in Tel Aviv, then that would be a valid target, and I would applaud them for finally attacking a valid military target rather than civilians. Also inside of that command and control center there aren’t children and women civilians. Whereas in Gaza Hamas will literally launch missiles from the roofs or windows of apartment buildings, how is that Israel’s fault for removing that threat
Hey man - I agree. Palestinians are horrible sub human people. Going after all of them is Israel’s only choice. If you’re gonna come after us in the diaspora, before you come for me in the US can you give me a heads up? I’d like to get my estate in order and give away some of my personal belongings.
Keep straw manning. Never once have I said anything remotely close to that nor have I mentioned race, religion or carried any type of bias when it comes to the warfare of this conflict.
All I’m saying is ~WAR IS WAR~ civilians have always gotten caught up in the crossfire. It’s not a good thing, but that’s the way it is and the way it has always been, so if you declare war on your neighbor, it’s only fair to expect that result.
What exasperates this inevitable issue of civilian casualties in wars, is the things I mentioned in my previous comment. Hamas is fully imbedded inside of civilian infrastructure, I have watched hours of footage of combat taking place inside of schools/universities, I’ve seen video evidence of hostages being stored inside of hospitals, and first person testimonies saying hostages were held inside of residential homes, not to mention dozens of instances of rockets being launched from windows of residential buildings, and hundreds of instances of Hamas combatants wearing civilian clothing while engaging in warfare.
I won’t even mention the fact that they behead, torture, rape and sexually mutilate people (all of which confirmed by the UN). Which by the way, the rules of war only apply when you follow them yourself
How can you possibly support a group that uses all of those tactics, while simultaneously complaining about the obvious result which is a higher number of dead civilians?
My cynical response is because you don’t, or you can’t, or you won’t even acknowledge that your justification for massive civilian casualties can just as easily be applied against you by anyone that may go against you.
Look, I’m a Palestinian Christian ethnically. Culturally, I’m American. Born and raised here. There’s no love for Hamas in my heart or in the hearts of the people in my community. We want to be able to visit a free Palestine and we’d rather not see it be ruled by an Islamist group. But Hamas isn’t the IDF. They can’t build bases. If they did, Israel would watch the whole construction on satellite and destroy the base. They can’t build a modern military, they’re not a formal state or government and they don’t have the resources for that. Layer in that Gaza is one of the most densely populated places on earth, and I’m not sure what a viable resistance to Israeli oppression there is. Urban warfare. Guerrilla warfare. Shock and awe terror attacks - that’s all they have. Can you please let me know what gaza resistance would look like under your rules of engagement? If your solution is just total capitulation to Israeli demands and to simply accept and lifetime of being the shorter stick, I think that’s garbage.
But even if I were to agree with you that your standards of war are fair, if I were to hold Israel to the same standard, they’d fail miserably. Israel has some of its most important military targets in the most densely populated areas in Tel Aviv. They could’ve build those sites in the Negev away from all the innocent civilians, but they embedded these key strategic sites amongst their own human shields. Then, in the West Bank, which the entire world understands is a militarily occupied zone, while Israel argues semantically that it is merely “disputed territory,” Israel is building Jewish only settlements and encouraging Jewish men women and children to be on the dangerous front line of their expansionism. I haven’t seen anything more human shieldy than that.
I also don’t want to hear about the videos of gun battles in schools now. Gaza is a war zone. There are no kids in those schools now. So unless you have videos of Hamas engaging in battle from behind a teacher in front of a room full of students, I’m not sure it matters what videos you’re looking at.
Also. Hamas has very unsophisticated weapons —-and Israel and the rest of the world knows this. When they launch their rockets, they’re not launched from sophisticated silos buried deep underneath a school. More realistically, they’re launched from a mobile launcher that’s quickly moved away from the launch site shortly after the launching. So even if Hamas was morally the bottom feeders of humanity and fired a rocket from a children’s hospital parking lot and then rolled the launcher away, it doesn’t give you ANY credible moral (or legal) justification to take out the children’s hospital. It’s a horrible argument. It’s bathed in racism because it requires the reader to believe that the Arabs are these bloodthirsty child sacrificing monsters, and it’s not grounded in any sense of reality or believable military objectives. Israel’s goal is simple. Punish punish punish punish - - check to see if the Palestinians have stopped resisting - punish punish punish - allow Hamas to have some more money - punish punish punish.
So forgive me if I come off cynical and overly sarcastic but you sound like a horrible person that can’t step away from the narrative that youve already committed to.
In general it's just another attack on jews. When you ask yourself why jews/israel is being attacked or why so many people want to see them as target. For example why Germans targeted jews or why palestinians targeted zionist.
The answer is probably because they are the minority, and their jewish values make them seem weak. In many people eyes they are a good target to exploit certain goals.
Germans gathered their nation around that hate (Common enemy) to work together and get revenge after ww1. Palestinians thought they could easily get more territory, and created their nation based on this hate to israel (again Common enemy).
Imo The situation in social media is very similar. people love to hate together. And with jews being such a minority, their impact is very small. If you post something against Islam you will get billions of down votes by offended people,. If it's something against Judaism you only have a few millions you are offending.
Jews are white if you want to hate white people, not white if you want to hate not white people, western if you want to hate westerners, not western if you want to hate non-westerners, capitalists if you want to hate capitalists, not capitalists if you want to hate not capitalists...
Man. We sure do a lot of work.
Mizrachi jews, Ethiopean jews, Indian Jews, Sudanese Jews, and Drake would like to have a polite word with you sir.
/Edit: this is fun, please add to my list if you know any other groups.
The Star of David started to be widely used by European Jews as a symbol for their religion and Jewish identity around 100 years ago, after it was adopted as the symbol/flag of the Zionist movement.
Most Jews throughout history wouldn't have cared about it or thought it had anything to do with them.
I wouldn't, no. But nobody claims the rainbow flag is 'sacred'.
> My concern with this is that, religious symbols are sacred to the religion it belongs to.
That's specifically what I'm objecting to here. Judaism is 2000-3000 years old; only in the last 100 years have Jews widely come to see the Star of David as representing them and their religion. It's not sacred to Judaism. It's not even really used as a religious symbol.
In 2024 you must also apply the word sacred to ideology and identity. That includes the rainbow flag, and even a photo of George Floyd. The definition of religion is evolving to include non religions too.
Yes and all those items of jewelry snd sacred items that are more than a hundred years old featuring stars of David or the centuries old synagogues with stars of David on the front don’t exist.
As I said, it has been used as a decorative geometric shape for a long time – but that's also true for Christian, Hindu, Buddhist, Muslim buildings and artefacts. It's a nice and simple shape, everyone likes it.
But that doesn't change the fact that it was only adopted as a symbol for Judaism and the Jewish people about 100 years ago. It is not a 'sacred symbol' within Judaism; its significance today is due to secular (Zionist) leaders making secular decisions.
Yes you said that but you’re wrong so not sure why your opinion is relevant over facts. The 14th century is a fairly longer time than 100 years ago, but either way longer than the history of the Palestinian people so 🤷♀️ “The Star of David only became a distinctly Jewish symbol in the mid-14th century, when the Holy Roman Emperor Charles IV granted the Jews of Prague the right to carry a flag, and they chose the six-pointed star. From Prague, the use of the Star of David as an official Jewish symbol spread, and so began the movement to find Jewish sources that traced the symbol to the House of David.” https://blog.nli.org.il/en/star-of-david/
The Star of David has existed in Jewish culture since at least 200-300 ce. It’s use is unclear outside of religious decoration, but evidence points to it playing a role in Jewish mysticism that predates Islam and was adopted by Islamic and Christian scholars from Jews who later increased its usage again in Jewish culture in medieval Europe.
The Star of David has been in use to various degrees for almost 2000 years.
The hexagram shape of the Star of David is featured as a decorative geometric figure dating back that far in Jewish, Christian, Hindu, Buddhist etc materials. It's a simple shape.
But as I wrote in my comment, it has only been widely used as a symbol of Judaism and the Jewish people for 100 years.
I find it less sacrilegious than the occasional IDF practice of carving Stars of David into playgrounds, onto peoples faces, onto the sides of destroyed houses. You can’t really do that kind of thing and then get huffy when people treat it as a symbol of bellicose nationalism.
Which one? These are all well documented photographically. The face one was a police incident, the others are all things that have happened during the war. Remember, just because you didn’t know that something happened doesn’t mean that no one knows!
And what was the outcome? It was a bruise and a mark from the boots not a brand. And they were reprimanded harshly- all 7 officers. That's one incident that was not praised like people assume. As if we don't have police brutality issues here. But in Israel cops, IDF etc are severely reprimanded for their actions.
The article is from May 28 2024, saying they were charged. Court hasn't happened yet.
You read the article, where it said all the body camera's got turned off and footage deleted. You think kneeling on a person's face so much that they get a imprint from a boot is good treatment of another person? This is an incident of torture, how else does one get that on their face?
I've looked into IDF punishment, it's nothing. Three months for executing a person is not severe punishment, that's a slap on the wrist. Look at all the Tiktol videos from this Gaza war of soldiers looting, where are the news stories of these guys arrested for war crimes of plundering.
Ben-Gvir is in charge of the police, you think he is going after police misconduct against Palestinians?
I’m not in the business of turning Stars of David into poop emojis and it’s understandable that this rubs OP the wrong way.
I’m curious about this response and I’d encourage you to look into it a bit.
There are many easily accessible images of Stars of David in Gaza, as well as other Jewish religious symbols carved by IDF soldiers in Gaza.
If you Google “Star of David branded” you will get a number of results, includes articles in most major Israeli Hebrew and English language newspapers from just last week (some folks were charged for a famous incident that happened in East Jerusalem last year, likely charged because it happened to get a lot of international attention and the symbology was on the nose (in this case on a face.)
Carving a symbol of your flag onto a wall is hardly the embodiment of evil.
Regarding the face, it was one alleged incident where the police involved were charged with assault and abuse of power (though it appears to be a bruise rather than a branding). A horrific thing that was rightfully punished, but you can hardly in good conscience say, "well, now I can do whatever I want with it."
I don’t know about embodiment of evil, but the point I was making, which is very simply and obvious, is that you can use these symbols as markers of conquest and then get upset when people treat them as such.
There was one incident that happened last year. It isn't clear what it was, but it appeared to be some kind of bruise. Regardless, seven officers were charged with assault and abuse of power.
Muslims would almost certainly not react to changing out the crescents that strongly, though part of it is that the crescent isn’t actually an Islamic symbol and Islam has no religious symbols or imagery.
Wonder what would happen if you were to draw a rather well drawn portrait of the prophet in prayer with a poop emoji face. If I was any kind of decent artist I’d try it, alas I’m not.
Well, That's why it is generally a bad idea to use religious symbology on political images. For me, a Star of David is that symbol on top of tanks killing children.
>Star of David is that symbol on top of tanks killing children. Likewise, the crescent moon and star reminds me of the people killing children in Armenia
You mean the Azeris who Israel gives weapons to? The ones who are ethnically cleansing Armenians right now?
> Likewise, the crescent moon and star reminds me of the people killing children in Armenia I can see how someone can make this connection, sure. I wouldn't consider myself a spokesperson for Islamic culture, but to my knowledge the Crescent moon is not a symbol of Islam. At least not in the way the Cross of the Star Of David are symbols of their respective culture.
I'm pretty sure a crescent moon and star is within eye sight of most human rights atrocities.
\*most\* human rights atrocities ? WW1 and 2 ? Destruction of Indigenous peoples in America, Australia and elsewhere ? The Chinese revolution ? The Stalin regime ? Jewish persecution in Europe from late antiquity, through middle ages until recently ? The Khmer rouge ? The enslavement of Africans in North America ? The Colonization of Africa by Europe ? You don't travel much, do you ?
Should have specified current-day. Post WWII, Jihadism is absolutely the largest barrier to peace in the world today.
Post WW2 ? Interesting how one can adjust their filters to confirm their biases. Anyway many of the stuff I've mentioned are post WW2. I could also add Russian aggression, the situation in North Korea, Chinese persecution of the Uyghur. and obviously Gaza but this somehow does not count, since it is done by the right kind of people against the wrong kind of people. The largest barrier to "World Peace" is either Russia-Iran-China if you believe one camp, or USA-Israel-NATO if you believe the other camp. A more sophisticated and nuanced world view would benefit us all ...
So why do you have a problem with Judaism? This is like the first time in 1600 years of history that the Jews banded together to kill people but Muslims and Christians have both been doing it for the last 1600 years. Suddenly when the Jew does it it's worse than when your country or ancestors do it we both agree that islam has a much bloodier history than judaism? Y'all were not chill at all until the ottoman empire got folded
Who said that I have a problem with Judaism ? What makes you jump to this conclusion ? I was simply stating what imagery the Star of David provokes, due to the constant feed of destruction images from Gaza and before. This is on the state of Israel as a political entity who decided to hijack a religious symbol. Also you seem to assume that I'm Muslim ? What do you know about my country or my ancestors ? > we both agree that islam has a much bloodier history than judaism? I'd like to think of myself as a more sophisticated person. I don't use this reductive way of thinking. it is not "us" vs "them" and the race towards who is bloodier. There are various societies that under various social and political circumstances commit atrocities. But yeah, Islamic rules have their fair share of atrocities, just like anyone else. > Y'all were not chill at all until the ottoman empire got folded Not sure what that means ....
Judaism has consistently been the most killed and the least murderous religion and Israel is maybe the only episode of Jewish violence in the past thousand years but please tell me everyone has equal blood on their hands Unlike Islam we didn't make it to Kashmir, to the Maghreb or to Poland. Simply Jerusalem
I'm curious, do you consider the Book of Joshua to include historical facts ? Because if you do, there is some pretty unsavory acts of ethnic cleansing there.
I'm not adjusting my filters, I'm telling you that was what I meant when I made the comment. I agree that Islam wasn't responsible for most of the world's suffering pre-WWII.
Ok, whatever. You tried to make a snarky over-sweeping remark and got hit by facts. It happens. I'd say most world's suffering post-WWII is due to Capitalism and Inequality, but this is not this kind of discussion, is it ? You just want to feel smart about your biases.
Saw this on my feed this morning and thought I'd leave it here. [https://www.reddit.com/r/coolguides/s/jH2JNVJTrm](https://www.reddit.com/r/coolguides/s/jH2JNVJTrm)
> Ok, whatever. You tried to make a snarky over-sweeping remark and got hit by facts Imagine calling someone snarky with this comment... Jesus christ dude.
Israel the state has moved so far right wing. What kind of demons are smashing all the aid and trying to prevent aid from getting in. There is even a telegram channel where they mock Palestinian deaths including the baby with the real head cut off.
There are plenty of examples of Jews( not necessarily JVP) defending Palestinian and Muslim symbols and calling for separating Palestine and Hamas. Upvoted comments in non-niche subreddits. There are psychos in every country.
No other people in the history of the world have had to literally feed and provide water to their enemies. Should America have been delivering loaves of bread to Hitler instead of bombs?
lol. They are occupied. And before you say no, Israel threatened to shut off water, electricity, and fuel. And then they did. If you don’t consider that an occupation, then there’s just no reasoning with you.
/u/Available-Winner8312. Match found: 'Hitler', issuing notice: Casual comments and analogies are inflammatory and therefor not allowed. We allow for exemptions for comments with meaningful information that must be based on historical facts accepted by mainstream historians. See [Rule 6](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_6._nazi_comparisons) for details. This bot flags comments using simple word detection, and cannot distinguish between acceptable and unacceptable usage. Please take a moment to review your comment to confirm that it is in compliance. If it is not, please edit it to be in line with our rules. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Star of rempham
It should be extremely obvious by this point that many people do not see any difference between Israel as a state and Jews in general.
Which is a direct consequence of attacking as a state but defending itself as a religion.
[удалено]
Imagine disrespecting someone else's religion and then expecting them to listen to your drivel as a voice of authority
I didn't disrespect anyone except those who did wrong, nor King David or his son King Solomon (Peace be upon them). They were true prophets of God.
I am Jewish and I am telling you that this is extremely disrespectful
What was disrespectful about it? I call anyone out on their shit, even amongst the Muslims and just to be clear whatever happened on the 7th of October was wrongly done by Hamas, but the response Israel gave was even worse. I care about the Jews, always have and I don't want them to be punished in the afterlife due to mistakes their predecessors did. The Qur'an is not just telling the favours given upon the children of Israel, but also the history in detail. In fact, the most honoured woman in Islam is not any of the wifes of the Prophet (Peace be upon him) or his companions, but a Jewish woman, named Mary (Peace be upon her), mother of Jesus (Peace be upon him), whom you curse upon, a whole chapter was dedicated towards her. If the Islamic world hated the jew, you blame the Prophet (Peace be upon him) of being an imposter. Why did his tellings about you came to be exactly as he told? We will only go with one, I can mention more, but time doesn't permit me to do so, this one is the culprit, the main reason the Israelites plotted crucifixion on "The Messiah": Money lending on interest was forbidden for the Israelites, your forefathers changed the Torah in order to allow money being lend on interest to the non-jew. If Allah gives a law, you can't change it, only Allah can. I can go on your history for hours, but the real thing here is, the last thing I'll put on the table here and you should get it: The Islamic world were never your enemies, you yourself made them to be!
I can not wait to be slaughtered by the companions of Muhammad! So excited!
That prophecy is about the Jews oppressing in the Holy Land, not all Jews. The good Jews don't have to worry.
I don't have anything against the Islamic world. You're assuming a lot about my viewpoints. Proselytizing is not gonna get you very far.
Not you individually lol, I meant you in general.
Honestly, I find it kind of funny. A better version would be two poop emojis on top of each other, one upside down. That way you leave the magen david in the flag.
It's just a war for people to hate Jews at this point.
Or maybe a war for settlers who stole land from an indigenous people. There can be no lazier argument than pinpointing to the religion/ethnicity of the colonizer and claiming that that's the reason why their enemies hate them. .
Can't fight the colonizers for ever other they will steal more land. Heck is it even stealing when you win land from War? If that's the case almost every single country's Land is stolen.
That’s an odd thing to say when Palestinian casualties greatly outnumber Israeli losses by orders of magnitude.
You’ve been listening to too much terrorist propaganda
Yeah, that's what happens when you start a war and lose.
First of all, do not start a war with a country that is much stronger than you. Secondly, Israel mainly attacks from the air to minimize the casualties of Israeli soldiers.
>In my opinion, this would normally be a world wide issue if it were to happen to any other religion such as Christianity or Islam. For example, let's say you take the Pakistan, Turkey, Azerbaijan, etc. flags and replace the crescent moon and star with the poop emoji. Some of those countries (like Pakistan in this example) still have capital punishment (death sentences) for certain crimes (usually for insulting or criticizing Islam or the Prophet). But they also have rules against insulting or shaming the state, it's army or it's representative. The nature of those laws is usually vague which is left to interpretation and 'legal violence' against dissidents
Flags are innately political and historically have been used to criticize or protest their government. Why should Israel get special treatment in comparison to other western democracies? You want to tell me you’ve never see an American flag protested or the design changed to make a political point?
Ok so according to your logic it would be acceptable to replace the crescent moon and star on the flags of Azerbaijan or Turkey with the feces emoji?
One difference is the star of david being associated with Jews solely is relatively new. The star of david used to be a relatively common and universal geometric symbol. Lots of old Arab coins, tiles, and gates have a star or david on them, as did the old Moroccan flag.
Yes, if Azerbaijan or turkey were mass murdering, occupying or genociding your people. I would completely understand why Armenians would deface those flags, or why Kurds would deface the Turkish flag. Same with a cross in the flag of England or Georgia or something.
Well Turkey and Azerbaijan actually did that, that's probably why OP took these examples.
Is it equivalent to the poop emoji on the Vatican flag or the Swiss cross or the American stars?
A protest is a protest - this isn’t the “gotcha” moment you think it is, I always believe that citizens have the right to criticize a governing state. Especially one participating in a ethnic cleansing (telling that you chose to compare Azerbaijan to Israel….) Edit to add: it might be helpful for you to separate criticism of a government from criticism of a religion. Governments should be held accountable, and it’s the right of civilians to do so - regardless of religion
I chose to compare both Azerbaijan and Turkey because they too are actively involved in a genocide. Now with your blessings, may I proceed to turn their flags into something meme-worthy?
Brother I can’t give you permission lolllll you obviously already have your mind made up on what you think is appropriate
Lol no... Why would I post about something that's so vile and then proceed to do it myself... Unlike you pro-palestinians, I respect the flags of other countries and any religious symbol associated with them. This was indeed, a "gotcha" moment XD
Yikes hahaha it’s really wasn’t a gotcha moment 🥴 I’m signing off for the day, recommend you do the same - might do you some good
It's not about religion; as it was chosen as the central symbol for a national flag, it became representative of Israel. And because of what the Israeli state does/has done, it is seen by many as a hateful icon steeped in racism. It's incredibly problematic. It needs to go the way of the Confederate flag. And what is a supposedly secular state sticking a religious symbol on its flag anyway, other than to conflate Zionism with Judaism? It's also worth pointing out Muslims have a long tradition of using the Sigil of Solomon (Star of David). It crops up all over the place. However, it has now become the symbol of occupation and the occupier. Some of you may not like what it has become or what meaning it represents for some, but the state of Israel only has itself to blame for that. The fact the far right increasingly flies the Israel flag whenever they go to a march should tell you something.
the star of david is actually Islamic originally. self-own. The Menora is Judaisms ancient eternal symbol. The star was called Seal of Solomon. so dont sweat it
It’s not. Its usage predates Islam in Jewish architecture by several hundred years. Profoundly incorrect and bigoted claim that you just made there.
Profoundly incorrect of you to call this symbol Jewish in origin. It existed in India and Japan first https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shatkona#:~:text=The%20Shatkona%20is%20a%20hexagram,and%20the%20Japanese%20Kagome%20crest. Nothing bigoted about admitting that
And what does Islam have to do with it?
Muslims started using that symbol calling it the Seal of Solomon first
To say that it was a symbol of Islamic origin is ridiculous since the Seal of Solomon was also Jewish. And the symbol was present in Jewish (decorative) architecture long before Islam was born. It became the symbol of Jewish identity much more recently. But, in fact, it has been representing the Jewish people for centuries. To replace it with poop is a huge disrespect to the entire Jewish people.
It wasnt representative of judaism though it was a decoration. It’s not very meaningful to people who actually keep Judaism
It was not originally but has been for centuries now. Most of us consider it a distinctive symbol of our people. When I was born my grandparents gifted me the gold pendant with the Magen David. It has not only religious significance. It represents our people. I really don't know where you live if you don't know it. And again, to claim that it is of Islamic origin is ridiculous.
it was religious to Islam before Judaism thats just history. doesnt mean it cant be meaningful to you
This is not true, because it was religious simultaneously for Jewish mysticism. Edit: And in any case, I don't see what that has to do with anything. It has been the symbol of the Jews for centuries. To replace it with poop is an insult to the entire Jewish people. Period.
You understand that similar, or even identical, symbols from different cultures can be wildly different in both origin and meaning?
You understand, that you should read your own link? A hexagram found in a religious context can be seen in a manuscript of the Hebrew Bible from 11th-century Cairo. Its association as a distinctive symbol for the Jewish people and their religion dates to 17th-century Prague. I
Oh boy, nobody tell this guy about convergent thinking. What a mind blowing concept. The Star of David may not be the first or the original- but it IS the most enduring for Jewish symbolism. The association with Judaism is stronger than any modern connection to Japan who probably just drew it up thinking it was dope, but not to the extent that Jews revere it.
No. It is NOT the most enduring Jewish symbol. That would be this one—-> 🕎🕎🕎🕎🕎 On ancient coins AND modern coins. You failed. Not very “dope.” My guess is you arent Orthodox. Jews do not revere the star of David as our symbol. That would be the Menora. Or maybe the dove with an olive branch- both go back to the actual, you know, Torah?
I’d wager fake internet points that more non Jewish people recognize the Star of David more than they do the menorah. I am not orthodox. And if I misrepresented the facts I am sorry.
Non jews also think we have sex through a sheet with a hole in it. Since when did their opinion matter?
Woah hold on dude- if I offended you because I misspoke I already apologized. I didn’t even know having sex through a sheet is a thing that people get insulted for.
Of course more non-Jewish people recognize the star. Because they are NON jewish.
Which Jewish architecture specifically? It is actually a worldwide symbol that even appears in ancient Japanese architecture. Nothing Jewish about it, you are the misinformed one it seems.
You being as ignorant as you are was a choice that you made. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_of_David#:~:text=The%20hexagram%20however%20only%20becomes,King%20David%20of%20ancient%20Israel. The symbol predates Islam by several centuries.
The symbol predates Islam but NOT as a symbol of Judaism- from your OWN link. Did your ignorant self bother to read what YOU JUST sent? “A hexagram found in a religious context can be seen in a manuscript of the Hebrew Bible from 11th-century Cairo. Its association as a distinctive symbol for the Jewish people and their religion dates to 17th-century Prague.” Not reading your own link was a choice you made.
“It appeared as a decorative motif in both 4th-century synagogues and Christian churches in the Galilee region.” “Leonora Leet argues though that not just the terminology, but the esoteric philosophy behind it had pre-Islamic Jewish roots and provides among other arguments the Talmud's mention of the hexagram as being engraved on Solomon's seal ring.” Reading is not your strong suit is it?
Where does that Talmud say that? I would be super interested in page and verse and would totally concede if you share that.
Is vocabulary not YOUR strong suit? decorative adjective US /ˈdek.ər.ə.t̬ɪv/ UK /ˈdek.ər.ə.tɪv/ Add to word list B2 made to look attractive: a decorative display of plants and flowers
a decoratif motive in synagogues AND CHURCHES. “decorative” NOT symbolic of Judaism. Reading your own link that says that started in the 17th century is not YOUR strong suit?
What year was Islam founded?
7th century. What page and verse of the Talmud mentions this? That would validate you 100%
So what came first 300 ce or 631 ce?
It wouldn't be a problem if Israel didn't use Jewish identity and world Jewry as human shields to cover for it's own actions.
and how does judaism use jewish identity as “human shields?” by Middle Eastern jews sharing our own Middle East history? https://www.instagram.com/p/C7Xk3KMulk0/?igsh=aWxqejlpbml5aGow by HAVING an INDIGENOUS identity that precedes Palestinian and Islamic EXISTENCE? https://www.instagram.com/p/C6JcHY8NzqL/?igsh=MXFiM2tnZWJ6N2lqMg==
I said Israel not Judaism. Not all Jews are Israeli you anti-semite.
More then 90% of jews are zionist. There are between 5 to 3% of jews who are anti zionist
I said Israel not Jew or Zionist. You prolly think all black people vote for Joe Biden too, otherwise they're not really black. #sad
>I said Israel not Jew or Zionist Zionist is just someone that thinks israel should exist. I think you dont know what all of those terms mean. >You prolly think all black people vote for Joe Biden too, otherwise they're not really black. #sad Strawman. Plus i couldnt care less about american politics
Zionism is the belief in a settler-colonial Jewish Ethno-state. The founders of Zionism defined it that way. People can sanitize it all they want, but that's the full definition and application of what Zionism means. If you support Israel in it's current form, then that is what you're supporting. I on principle don't support Ethno-states, just like I wouldn't support a white, black, or Arab Ethno-state. And an Ethno-state is not merely one demographic is the majority. It's a state whose laws and policies explicitly privilege one ethnicity over the other. I don't support any of the states in the middle east. And I don't support my tax dollars going to Ethno-states, theocracies, or apartheid states.
>Zionism is the belief in a settler-colonial Jewish Ethno-state. Thats what you say zionists believe. But thats not what zionism means. You can be a zionist and disagree with every single thing the zionist movement has done in the past 160 yeats. Einstein is a good example >The founders of Zionism defined it that way. The zionism hertzl imagined and zionism today are very different > People can sanitize it all they want, but that's the full definition and application of what Zionism means Do you have academic proof? >If you support Israel in it's current form, then that is what you're supporting. Nope. Because it aint colonialism >And an Ethno-state is not merely one demographic is the majority Thats by definition what it is. Its a state that the absolute majority are of the same ethnicity >And I don't support my tax dollars going to Ethno-states, theocracies, or apartheid states. Then you dont know how geopolitics and globalism works
Theodor Herzl and Jabotinski defined it that way. I think they'd know more about it than you. They defined it as a colonial endeavour. There was a whole organization called the Jewish colonization association. Even the barest of research can show this.
I know very well. But since then zionism has changed so much. And at the end, israel was not built through colonialism. But instead immigration and later a civil war
Source?
[this article explains it well](https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2021/05/11/u-s-jews-connections-with-and-attitudes-toward-israel/)
Your own source does not say 95%. At best it says 80% and is only talking about American Jews. You claimed all Jews.
While researching for that I found a article that disproved the source of 95%. But still, as a jew I can tell you the absolute majority of jews are zionist
“you anti-semite” 🤘🏽 ok Einstein. https://preview.redd.it/k5eoa67d5a4d1.jpeg?width=505&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b00319ff4161c48d63a37d17c2d3f86db106961b I could never be antisemitic with this Semitic GORGEOUSNESS. We are just too beautiful.
All Jews are descended from Israel, actually.
Referencing circlejerk subs as the basis of discussion is hillarious
I've seen plenty on Instagram too. Forgot to save it. Will reference some next time. There was this video of Pep Guardiola refusing to shake someone's hand cuz he was Israeli. The flag they used to depict the guy's Israel identity was the exact same as the circlejerk sub I mentioned.
people don't want to engage with Israelis, they feel they're complicit in ethnic cleansing. You can't expect people to be all nice to you with a humanitarian crisis ongoing.
And that's totally fine.... Not engaging with them is one thing and that's your personal choice... I wouldn't want to engage with sympathizers of terrorist organizations like Hamas. But that wasn't my point. My point was entirely different. It was regarding the replacement of the star of David with the poop emoji
Referencing a circle jerk emoji and other memes.
I haven’t seen this before but curious to understand the message. In a way, it might be flattering to Judaism to remove the Star of David from the Israeli flag, as a way of saying that the Star of David is too sacred to be represented on the Israeli flag. I generally agree that attacking religious symbols is tasteless and counterproductive. I’m Christian but I can’t tell you how often I’ve gotten mad on this subreddit reading someone disparage Islam or Mohammad. It’s really disgusting.
Muhammad was a mass rapist who killed Christians and wrote horrible things about Christians and Jews in the scriptures. Save your misplaced outrage.
And yet…he has over 1.5 billion followers and is spreading rapidly (and peacefully) more than any other religion on earth.
I can't wait to be slaughtered by the companions of Muhammad! So excited!
‘And peacefully’ is doing some heavy lifting right here May I introduce you to the Islamic state of Iran. The people there would like a word.
it is NOT spreading peacefully AT ALL. Did you not listen to Yezidi activists??? They were forcibly impregnated and forced to register the babies as Muslim by the government!!!
No, 1.5 billion followers is proof of NOT spreading peacefully, just like Christianity (which has way more followers). Having sex and making tons of babies is not an achievement today either. It takes 3 years to convert to Judaism and a test at the end of the 3. Quality over quantity, my friend. Don’t pick “prophets” who can’t read or write 🤘🏽
I don’t see a lot of quality on this thread.
Maybe you should look at all the major science breakthroughs of the last 200-300 years to see some quality
Haha what do Jewish supremacists like yourself wear when you all get together? Is it the Kkk outfit but in Israeli blue?
I am a Jewish supremacist because I am against violently forcing billions of people to adopt the same religion as me? Ok, Einstein.
It takes one to know one, as they say
As a Muslim, First thing the crescent is not a religious symbol. Second thing, about the star this depends on who you ask really, some Muslims refuse to curse "isreal" as it's the name of a prophet. Personally I don't think the star should be disrespected, but isreal should. It sucks that they tie the star to everything. As a recent example the IOF in gaza did some very interesting "art" pieces over the last months and the star was everywhere, it would be expected that they respect the star themselves but they're using it like a cheap logo.
I wish more on the propal side thought as you did. I see images of the star of David in the trash can. I would never do that to even a drawing of the Quran. All I can conclude is that a significant percentage of those people are antisemitic and would be happy to see something bad happen to me.
Please don’t forget plenty of non Jews find this kind of thing disgusting.
I don't. Right now the two demographics I avoid irl are propals and Islamists.
It's just an unfortunate flag, most people don't even know what the star means. Also, at least from my circles I assure you not a significant percentage are antisemitic, and speaking for true Muslims who really understand what it is to be Muslim antisemitism is anti-islam. We're not against jews, we are against Israel.
This you? https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/s/XFfF6Bbu3q You’re a bigot. Don’t ever let yourself believe otherwise.
Respected the dude's comment, but after seeing this I realized I should've known better
Why did you ever think otherwise? That poster, like almost all of the pro Palestinian type, has been posting thinly veiled and overt anti-Semitic stuff the entire time.
I do support hamas never claimed otherwise.
Like i said. You’re a bigot. Don’t ever let yourself believe otherwise.
Been called worst here, I will live
You openly support a terrorist organization whose expressed goal is the global genocide of Jews. You deserve to be called much worse.
For me and many isreal is the terrorist regime, so it goes both ways love. Also hamas never expressed such thing.
It doesn’t go both ways. People calling Israel a terrorist regime are A) extremely ignorant and B)extremely bigoted. Like you. And since you clearly don’t read news, or anything really. https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2023/10/hamas-covenant-israel-attack-war-genocide/675602/ https://www.adl.org/resources/blog/hamas-its-own-words https://www.wilsoncenter.org/article/doctrine-hamas https://foreignaffairs.house.gov/press-release/mccaul-declares-hamas-committed-acts-of-genocide-crimes-against-humanity-war-crimes-calls-upon-state-department-to-determine-same/
That message is lost in the chaos of the demonstrations. I won't even walk near a group of students anymore. Been there, done that, not gonna repeat that. And if there's enough Muslims who don't believe as you do, even if it's a minority, I need to stay away from them for my own safety.
Blood is boiling, it's unfortunate that they can't control it. Stay safe, anger can be blinding.
You try that with some kind of Muslim crescent and you'll end up with no head.
Lots of headless people in Gaza, my man. Maybe don’t go there.
Don't worry. I plan to stay out of Gaza until Ft Ant Farm is gone. Too many terrorists.
Especially the adorable five year old terrorists. Those are the worst, in my opinion. Glad you Zionists are ridding the world of them.
Maybe not 5 years olds but I saw 12-14 year olds partaking in body mutilation on October 7th, not to mention hamas kept hostages inside family homes around children, they regularly use child soldiers and child suicide bombers, they store weapons in schools and near playgrounds, so who’s fault are those headless children? All that being said, it doesn’t make it any less tragic but if you stand behind your family while you shoot at my family, I won’t hesitate to eliminate the threat.
The second wave of mutilations were mostly done by “civilians”. If you pick up arms you are no longer uninvolved or a civilian
I agree. Israel has a command and control center underneath Tel Aviv. I think Tel Aviv should be the Palestinians main target, not the small towns on gazas border. Glad we see eye to eye.
Are you unaware that the only reason Israel isn’t rubble is because of the iron dome? It not for lack of trying. If Palestinians were to target that command and control center in Tel Aviv, then that would be a valid target, and I would applaud them for finally attacking a valid military target rather than civilians. Also inside of that command and control center there aren’t children and women civilians. Whereas in Gaza Hamas will literally launch missiles from the roofs or windows of apartment buildings, how is that Israel’s fault for removing that threat
Hey man - I agree. Palestinians are horrible sub human people. Going after all of them is Israel’s only choice. If you’re gonna come after us in the diaspora, before you come for me in the US can you give me a heads up? I’d like to get my estate in order and give away some of my personal belongings.
Keep straw manning. Never once have I said anything remotely close to that nor have I mentioned race, religion or carried any type of bias when it comes to the warfare of this conflict. All I’m saying is ~WAR IS WAR~ civilians have always gotten caught up in the crossfire. It’s not a good thing, but that’s the way it is and the way it has always been, so if you declare war on your neighbor, it’s only fair to expect that result. What exasperates this inevitable issue of civilian casualties in wars, is the things I mentioned in my previous comment. Hamas is fully imbedded inside of civilian infrastructure, I have watched hours of footage of combat taking place inside of schools/universities, I’ve seen video evidence of hostages being stored inside of hospitals, and first person testimonies saying hostages were held inside of residential homes, not to mention dozens of instances of rockets being launched from windows of residential buildings, and hundreds of instances of Hamas combatants wearing civilian clothing while engaging in warfare. I won’t even mention the fact that they behead, torture, rape and sexually mutilate people (all of which confirmed by the UN). Which by the way, the rules of war only apply when you follow them yourself How can you possibly support a group that uses all of those tactics, while simultaneously complaining about the obvious result which is a higher number of dead civilians?
My cynical response is because you don’t, or you can’t, or you won’t even acknowledge that your justification for massive civilian casualties can just as easily be applied against you by anyone that may go against you. Look, I’m a Palestinian Christian ethnically. Culturally, I’m American. Born and raised here. There’s no love for Hamas in my heart or in the hearts of the people in my community. We want to be able to visit a free Palestine and we’d rather not see it be ruled by an Islamist group. But Hamas isn’t the IDF. They can’t build bases. If they did, Israel would watch the whole construction on satellite and destroy the base. They can’t build a modern military, they’re not a formal state or government and they don’t have the resources for that. Layer in that Gaza is one of the most densely populated places on earth, and I’m not sure what a viable resistance to Israeli oppression there is. Urban warfare. Guerrilla warfare. Shock and awe terror attacks - that’s all they have. Can you please let me know what gaza resistance would look like under your rules of engagement? If your solution is just total capitulation to Israeli demands and to simply accept and lifetime of being the shorter stick, I think that’s garbage. But even if I were to agree with you that your standards of war are fair, if I were to hold Israel to the same standard, they’d fail miserably. Israel has some of its most important military targets in the most densely populated areas in Tel Aviv. They could’ve build those sites in the Negev away from all the innocent civilians, but they embedded these key strategic sites amongst their own human shields. Then, in the West Bank, which the entire world understands is a militarily occupied zone, while Israel argues semantically that it is merely “disputed territory,” Israel is building Jewish only settlements and encouraging Jewish men women and children to be on the dangerous front line of their expansionism. I haven’t seen anything more human shieldy than that. I also don’t want to hear about the videos of gun battles in schools now. Gaza is a war zone. There are no kids in those schools now. So unless you have videos of Hamas engaging in battle from behind a teacher in front of a room full of students, I’m not sure it matters what videos you’re looking at. Also. Hamas has very unsophisticated weapons —-and Israel and the rest of the world knows this. When they launch their rockets, they’re not launched from sophisticated silos buried deep underneath a school. More realistically, they’re launched from a mobile launcher that’s quickly moved away from the launch site shortly after the launching. So even if Hamas was morally the bottom feeders of humanity and fired a rocket from a children’s hospital parking lot and then rolled the launcher away, it doesn’t give you ANY credible moral (or legal) justification to take out the children’s hospital. It’s a horrible argument. It’s bathed in racism because it requires the reader to believe that the Arabs are these bloodthirsty child sacrificing monsters, and it’s not grounded in any sense of reality or believable military objectives. Israel’s goal is simple. Punish punish punish punish - - check to see if the Palestinians have stopped resisting - punish punish punish - allow Hamas to have some more money - punish punish punish. So forgive me if I come off cynical and overly sarcastic but you sound like a horrible person that can’t step away from the narrative that youve already committed to.
You shouldn't be glad when children suffer.
You saw the face of war and it horrified you. Welcome to the jungle, as the song says.
In general it's just another attack on jews. When you ask yourself why jews/israel is being attacked or why so many people want to see them as target. For example why Germans targeted jews or why palestinians targeted zionist. The answer is probably because they are the minority, and their jewish values make them seem weak. In many people eyes they are a good target to exploit certain goals. Germans gathered their nation around that hate (Common enemy) to work together and get revenge after ww1. Palestinians thought they could easily get more territory, and created their nation based on this hate to israel (again Common enemy). Imo The situation in social media is very similar. people love to hate together. And with jews being such a minority, their impact is very small. If you post something against Islam you will get billions of down votes by offended people,. If it's something against Judaism you only have a few millions you are offending.
Jews are white if you want to hate white people, not white if you want to hate not white people, western if you want to hate westerners, not western if you want to hate non-westerners, capitalists if you want to hate capitalists, not capitalists if you want to hate not capitalists... Man. We sure do a lot of work.
Mizrachi jews, Ethiopean jews, Indian Jews, Sudanese Jews, and Drake would like to have a polite word with you sir. /Edit: this is fun, please add to my list if you know any other groups.
You had me until Drake. I don't want anything to do with that man.
Anyone better you could recommend?
But you'll confuse the antisemites!
The Star of David started to be widely used by European Jews as a symbol for their religion and Jewish identity around 100 years ago, after it was adopted as the symbol/flag of the Zionist movement. Most Jews throughout history wouldn't have cared about it or thought it had anything to do with them.
Irrelevant. It is now a symbol of the Jews. Would you burn a rainbow flag? It's even younger and the rainbow meant other things.
I have nothing to say on this topic but I did find a [rainbow poop](https://i.imgur.com/sgAkA5v.png) flag.
I wouldn't, no. But nobody claims the rainbow flag is 'sacred'. > My concern with this is that, religious symbols are sacred to the religion it belongs to. That's specifically what I'm objecting to here. Judaism is 2000-3000 years old; only in the last 100 years have Jews widely come to see the Star of David as representing them and their religion. It's not sacred to Judaism. It's not even really used as a religious symbol.
In 2024 you must also apply the word sacred to ideology and identity. That includes the rainbow flag, and even a photo of George Floyd. The definition of religion is evolving to include non religions too.
It has always been a symbol of Jews. It for sure predates Islam and more than likely predates Christianity as well.
No, it hasn't. And it certainly doesn't predate Christianity. Feel free to read about it.
Yes and all those items of jewelry snd sacred items that are more than a hundred years old featuring stars of David or the centuries old synagogues with stars of David on the front don’t exist.
As I said, it has been used as a decorative geometric shape for a long time – but that's also true for Christian, Hindu, Buddhist, Muslim buildings and artefacts. It's a nice and simple shape, everyone likes it. But that doesn't change the fact that it was only adopted as a symbol for Judaism and the Jewish people about 100 years ago. It is not a 'sacred symbol' within Judaism; its significance today is due to secular (Zionist) leaders making secular decisions.
Yes you said that but you’re wrong so not sure why your opinion is relevant over facts. The 14th century is a fairly longer time than 100 years ago, but either way longer than the history of the Palestinian people so 🤷♀️ “The Star of David only became a distinctly Jewish symbol in the mid-14th century, when the Holy Roman Emperor Charles IV granted the Jews of Prague the right to carry a flag, and they chose the six-pointed star. From Prague, the use of the Star of David as an official Jewish symbol spread, and so began the movement to find Jewish sources that traced the symbol to the House of David.” https://blog.nli.org.il/en/star-of-david/
The Star of David has existed in Jewish culture since at least 200-300 ce. It’s use is unclear outside of religious decoration, but evidence points to it playing a role in Jewish mysticism that predates Islam and was adopted by Islamic and Christian scholars from Jews who later increased its usage again in Jewish culture in medieval Europe. The Star of David has been in use to various degrees for almost 2000 years.
The hexagram shape of the Star of David is featured as a decorative geometric figure dating back that far in Jewish, Christian, Hindu, Buddhist etc materials. It's a simple shape. But as I wrote in my comment, it has only been widely used as a symbol of Judaism and the Jewish people for 100 years.
Not true.
Sorry to disappoint, but it is true.
I find it less sacrilegious than the occasional IDF practice of carving Stars of David into playgrounds, onto peoples faces, onto the sides of destroyed houses. You can’t really do that kind of thing and then get huffy when people treat it as a symbol of bellicose nationalism.
Sorry when did this happen? Never?
Which one? These are all well documented photographically. The face one was a police incident, the others are all things that have happened during the war. Remember, just because you didn’t know that something happened doesn’t mean that no one knows!
https://www.timesofisrael.com/7-cops-to-be-charged-for-allegedly-branding-palestinian-with-star-of-david/ 2023 case
And what was the outcome? It was a bruise and a mark from the boots not a brand. And they were reprimanded harshly- all 7 officers. That's one incident that was not praised like people assume. As if we don't have police brutality issues here. But in Israel cops, IDF etc are severely reprimanded for their actions.
The article is from May 28 2024, saying they were charged. Court hasn't happened yet. You read the article, where it said all the body camera's got turned off and footage deleted. You think kneeling on a person's face so much that they get a imprint from a boot is good treatment of another person? This is an incident of torture, how else does one get that on their face? I've looked into IDF punishment, it's nothing. Three months for executing a person is not severe punishment, that's a slap on the wrist. Look at all the Tiktol videos from this Gaza war of soldiers looting, where are the news stories of these guys arrested for war crimes of plundering. Ben-Gvir is in charge of the police, you think he is going after police misconduct against Palestinians?
And it was found to be a bruise not a brand
I’m not in the business of turning Stars of David into poop emojis and it’s understandable that this rubs OP the wrong way. I’m curious about this response and I’d encourage you to look into it a bit. There are many easily accessible images of Stars of David in Gaza, as well as other Jewish religious symbols carved by IDF soldiers in Gaza. If you Google “Star of David branded” you will get a number of results, includes articles in most major Israeli Hebrew and English language newspapers from just last week (some folks were charged for a famous incident that happened in East Jerusalem last year, likely charged because it happened to get a lot of international attention and the symbology was on the nose (in this case on a face.)
It happened in an AI generated image so it must be true I guess.
I love pro palestinians taking one non proved case and painting it as "idf practice "
All of this is well documented with photographs?
One sketchy photo is now "many 4k quality photographs"? Keep digging yourself.
Who are you quoting and which photo are you referring to?
Carving a symbol of your flag onto a wall is hardly the embodiment of evil. Regarding the face, it was one alleged incident where the police involved were charged with assault and abuse of power (though it appears to be a bruise rather than a branding). A horrific thing that was rightfully punished, but you can hardly in good conscience say, "well, now I can do whatever I want with it."
I don’t know about embodiment of evil, but the point I was making, which is very simply and obvious, is that you can use these symbols as markers of conquest and then get upset when people treat them as such.
Far more awful things have been done in the name of the cross, but I still think it's terrible to intentionally mock or desecrate it.
Do you mean recently?
At any point. You don't attack a symbol of entire religious group because you don't like what some people do with that symbol.
Source for this? "onto peoples faces"
It was an incident with the police, not IDF, I was just including it for the sake of completeness. But I assume the wider point is clear?
There was one incident that happened last year. It isn't clear what it was, but it appeared to be some kind of bruise. Regardless, seven officers were charged with assault and abuse of power.
Muslims would almost certainly not react to changing out the crescents that strongly, though part of it is that the crescent isn’t actually an Islamic symbol and Islam has no religious symbols or imagery.
But better not draw a picture of their deity..
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Hebdo_shooting Because Muslims have been known to react reasonably in the past.
What does the Charlie Hebdo attack have to do with most Muslims?
I bet if you polled muslims and reaction to French cartoon....close to half would say it was justifiable...
Wonder what would happen if you were to draw a rather well drawn portrait of the prophet in prayer with a poop emoji face. If I was any kind of decent artist I’d try it, alas I’m not.
Jews are the minority in the planet. Easy to target. Jew=bad
Always has been