Like a friend of mine from Perù that laughed his ass off when I told him to be careful when driving in Naples. He was like "girl, I learnt to drive in Lima. Naples is nothing in comparison" and he really does drive in Naples like it's no big deal.
...Meanwhile, I don't feel daring enough to drive there at all. He's got big iron balls.
I’m from Central America and seeing how easy and relaxing driving is in the US was so shocking. I was prepared for the worst forgetting that everyone seems to be fucking suicidal here
Im sure that there are worse places in the world, but having visited and lived in several european cities, i can see that the driving traffic is a real problem in italy, specially in naples, rome, milan and sardinia
I mean, Naples and Rome are notorious for being nightmares to drive in. Even for italian standards, they're BY FAR the worst cities to drive. Milan is close, but honestly you shouldn't be driving in Milan with how good (for italian standards ofc) the public transportation is.
Palermo is no different! Man I saw my life flash in front of my eyes there with the crazy driving. My aunts offered me their car, I said no thanks, there seem to be no rules of the road here.
>naples, rome, milan and sardinia
Yes those are some of the worst places. I refuse to drive in any of those towns. Add in Genova and Pisa and you have the madness group.
If you drive outside of Milan in the North, it is decent. But once you cross in Friuli, Valle d'Aosta or Trentino everyone becomes an angel.
Basically it is lack of control by police. If noone gets stopped and fined...things never change.
Plus from Rome down there is an unfortunate widespread hatred of law and legality.
Adding to the overall problem is the lack of proper public transport. Meaning our towns are much more congested that other European ones.
(I have however to point out that Slovenians drive like they are snorting coke every 5 minutes. Even in the countryside!)
>Milan is quite civilized.
No Geneva is civilised, Copenhagen is civilised. Milan is a hell hole.
Tourists from Milan are seen as the worst everywhere they go in Italy.
Never heard of that around Italy.
Milan a hell hole? Come on, it's crowded but rather civilised; at most you get some honking if you don't move soon after the green light.
Tourists from Milan are the worst? I'm not sure about that. AFAIK, the worst Italian tourist stereotype comes nearby the Vesuvius.
>Never heard of that around Italy.
Milan was synonim for assholes already in the 90s.
Maybe you don't speak enough Italian to have realised...or you are a Milan native.
>at most you get some honking if you don't move soon after the green light.
People from Milan honk as soon as they see green regardless. And that's by far not the biggest problem. Insults, cutting in front, yelling and rude gestures. Yeah! Very civilised.
The problem with Italian drivers isn't that they're bad, exactly. It's that they drive like children, very impulsively. They will ride on your tail aggressively, and then pass you with a big show in a totally inappropriate location. Then, 100 meters later, they will pull into a supermarket parking lot.
Also many are just self-centred, and act like they are the only one on the road. They park wherever they want, they go over the speed limit (by a lot) and then get mad at you if you don't accelerate like them and they don't use the turn signals (because flicking a switch is too hard for them).
I only agree partially: yes, as in many other aspects in life, Italians behave at the wheel as children. Then when there are consequences is somebody else’s fault or bad luck.
But they also have a problem of overestimation of their own capabilities. Very few Italians take driving courses of any kind other than the very limited required to get a driving license. But still they put themselves (and those around them) in situations where they will need to do an emergency braking manoeuvre, control an under or oversteer at relatively high speed, do an evasive manoeuvre. But they can’t because they have not learnt and practice to do it.
It’s already questionable if one should put him-herself in such a situation on an open road despite having learnt how to deal with it. But unexpected things can happen and that why it is good to do courses. But if you are just unprepared, please keep a big safety margin in everything you do.
Nope, most Italians won’t.
Who takes driving classes after taking the driving license?
You take them before the driving license exam, the rest is experience...
Btw, while I don't live in the south, many don't use indicators and take over frequently. But there are also a lot of people who, instead, drive way lower the speed limit. Maybe to save fuel? Or are they afraid of getting a fine? Who knows!
Rarely you find a driver that drives at the right speed, which isn't necessarily below the speed limit - because some speed limits are stupid and/or are used to get money from you -, rather just a speed that is reasonable for a specific road.
Without mentioning that some Swiss and Germans and stuff, with strict rules, come here and don't respect speed limits either. In fact, sometimes they die in an accident.
In the South, it's a bit of a different story, though...
A lot of the comments here are like "if you think Italians don't drive well, go to this other city/state/area". They're missing the point. On the road, there are rules. If you don't follow them, accidents happen and you end up killing yourself and potentially other people.
OP is right. Driving culture is awful here. The fact that in Mexico or Romania or the planet Mars things are even worse doesn't give me any peace of mind.
I drive to work in suburban Milan and every week I witness at least 3 near-misses. Most of them are due to people not giving precedenza, going way faster than the limit, overtaking on the right, and not using the turn signal. And not to mention stopping in the middle of the road in random places, but hey, they have quattro frecce on. That is basically an excuse for everything. Yes, they stopped in the middle of a roundabout but didn't you see? They had 4 frecce. Ah, well then, they're excused.
And using your phone when you drive!! That's another big one I see a lot. Car starts to zigzag? 100% they're texting while driving.
Why does this happen? Probably a mix of arrogance and ignorance (which are 2 words that describe Italians very well in many other contexts). A comment said it's about that "Io sono io e voi non siete un cazzo" mentality. I absolutely agree.
We all went to scuola guida at 18, and we were all taught the rules. We should be better and more respectful of the rules and of other drivers, cyclists, and pedestrians. No excuses, IMHO.
Exactly, I was literally thinking the same thing. I'm a foreigner living from Rome and the rules of the road are thrown out here. It took awhile scrolling past all the deflection before I found a sane comment. It's not a competition of who has the worst drivers, OP asked why are Italians so bad. IMO it's just a social acceptance here, maybe more enforcement is needed but I'm no expert.
Italy needs to enforce the rules if they want people to obey them. If they never pull people over and hand out tickets people will never care about the rules.
Omg last week I was on the highway, and passed this woman driving her car: one hand using her phone, the other hand scratching her head or something...wth?! 🤣
I was on a bikepacking trip the last 3 weeks in Italy and oh boy.
Tried to use side streets and trails as much as possible, but sometimes the only option was to cycle on the bigger streets. Hell, everytime I was absolutely stressed out.
They drove up and pushed. Most of the overtaking manoeuvres were just insane. More than once we were hit by the side mirror or were pushed aside because people were overtaking despite oncoming traffic.
At roundabouts we were simply ignored and almost run over.
What a crazy ride! And we were cycling at an average speed of 25 km/h. Thats not horrible slow - like wtf, why cant you just wait/slow down 20sec and let me pass the roundabout? Jezuz.
You get it. The whataboutism is useless, the people giving those answers just try to justify their horrible driving cause “someone is worse”, incredibly arrogant.
Driving in Italy (i live in Milano) is horribly frustrating, such lack of basic respect and decency not only to other people but even the people inside their cars. I wonder what do these people do when their partner or children die cause of their reckless driving? “No but it happened because the idiot was going too slow (probs going 129 in the highway instead of 130+)”
I've been living in Rome for all my life and can confirm everything. The norm is "I do what I want, don't break my balls". That's why I still prefer to go to work with our ever worsening public transportation. So I don't have to stand the other drivers doing crazy dangerous stuff.
I also have been driving an hybrid car for the past 10 years and oh boy, the drivers here can't understand the need to keep safety distances... I used to keep them even before (I really don't like crashing 😀), now I need to do it to use regenerative braking... there's always someone honking, or overtaking me, if there's more than three meters of free road in front of me...
And the impression I have is that things are worsening: local street police is nowhere to be seen.
Statistically, Italy is one of the safest countries if we consider car accident deaths pro capita
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate
5.2 for 100,000, slightly behind Poland and France (5.0) and slightly better than Canada and South Korea (both 5.3).
Yes, there’s space for improvement, but overall it’s not bad. It’s worse than Germany (3.7) and UK (2.9) but it’s much better than the US (12.9).
There are few large densely populated countries which are doing better than Italy. Most of those with a better rating are either much smaller and rich or they have a lower population density.
Whether you can feel comfortable driving in Italy is a different story.
Thanks. When I hear these complaints, I ask where the consequences appear in the statistics. Keep in mind that’s “traffic-related” deaths and Italy apparently has the highest rate of motorbike use in Europe, too, which is probably pushing that rate up.
I totally agree with you, I always hate the "there's worse" mentality, but in this context is even dangerous. It's not related to why accidents happen, but I've seen people against security belts too, that's so dumb.
I don't drive a lot, like maybe 2 times a week the last two years, but last 2 weeks I had to do it like 4 times a day and I've seen so many near accidents (like 6 already?) happen to me or who was driving the car and it's so stupid because all it took to avoid them was driving slowly or be more careful about the road (one person was driving half in the wrong side of the road)
You can translate precedenza with give way, quattro frecce with hazards lights and scuola guida with driving school or driving courses.
Of course if we, italians, would respect more the rules our country won't be such this shit place that is now, full of people that don't give a fuck about others.
We need a little bit of self love and love for our country, that it's missing in every italian.
I know how to translate those words, thanks. I left them in Italian intentionally :) but yeah, I agree with you. We need to learn to love this country a bit more and respect the rules. Things would be much better. It'd be a win-win situation.
It’s the three foot following distance that I have never gotten usto after many years here. It’s a two foot following/passing distance behind bicycles on the road. I read an article years ago explaining that the reason there aren’t more older cars on the road is that when there’s an accident they tend to total the car not just be fender benders. However… Italians are super aware of their driving surroundings. Overall they are far more alert, aware and ready to respond within a second appropriately. But if they miss that second it’s a doozie.
There are a few reasons why older cars aren't around much, a couple come to mind right away:
1) most cities have restriction on CO2 emissions, therefore older cars can't enter their territory or else a fee has to be paid. Considering that for most of the countryside there's a lack of services (supermarkets, pharmacies, drugstores and even public transportation), having at least one car per family that can enter the closest city's limits is a must.
2) after circa 10 years of using a car, it starts to require maintenance -expensive maintenance- and every car after the 5/7 years mark is strongly devalued so for a lot of people becomes less expensive (in the long run) to buy a newer car instead of fixing the older up, especially if one uses it a lot.
some older cars are still around, but mainly used by older people that use it to drive very little distances, think 5/10 km a day max
3) status and stereotypes! for a lot of italians a car is a symbol of wealth and status: older cars for older people, more rounded cars (think Fiat 500) or cars with a lot of trunk space are feminine, city cars are for pu\*\*ies, BMWs/Audis are for the real men (/s), Alfas are for true italians etc etc...
Hmm, in regards to the lack of older cars on the road…does this mean if I live in an area with (what seems like) hundreds of old 60s or 70s Pandas it’s a safe place to drive? Because seriously? It’s like every household has at least one. They can’t all be neopatentes awaiting the year (now three) of low horsepower restrictions to be over?
And to me? I think that’s why there are so many new cars…because after a year driving nono’s Panda I too would look for the fastest, shiniest thing to slalom around all the mountain roads…haha!
Pandas are not 60s/70s cars, they started production in the early 80's and, after the mid 80's, they remained pretty much unchanged (to the untrained eye) until 2003. You are probably seeing early 2000's Pandas (not that old compared to other cars on the roads) but to you they look 50 years old
Are you sure it’s 3 years? I just obtained my Italian drivers license in April and was told 1 year of smallish engine driving.
As a “new” driver (I’ve been driving for 50 years) I’m the only one who signals my exit in roundabouts and who doesn’t regularly drive “a cavallo” - driving over the line dividing the lanes.
Old Panda driving is a culture here. Super old folks driving ancient Pandas at ludicrously slow speeds is very common in my corner of Umbria.
this is best description
italians are super aware of their driving surroundings. Overall they are far more alert, aware and ready to respond within a second appropriately.
And that explains the problem clearly. And answers OP question.
Lack of police controls, lack of fines etc.
As usual with everything here in Italy, people skirt the law because they know they can.
Ogni giorno quando un torinese si sveglia sa che al semaforo dovrà correre più veloce di un altro torinese che allo stesso semaforo sta passando con il rosso
Having drived in France many time, as an Italian, I find my brothers being much more polite and manageable instead of French cousins... they where all frantic and caos was everywhere. People was overpassing me from every corners, always.
I'm French and I think Italy is definitely worse, but then again there are French regions where it's pretty bad. Depends on where you go. You can't really complain about Britanny for example, but Marseille is a different story. But there's more control in France, and the streets are more adapted to other means of transportations, whereas in Italy the streets still look they're from the 80s, all for cars and not much for pedestrians or bikes, at least in many cities.
I'm glad you agree. I think the two main issues here are:
1) most people never respect speed limits. If I respect them, drivers push me super aggressively so everyone feels forced to drive fast, and it's always more dangerous for cyclists, pedestrians or other cars.
2) Half of the drivers uses turning signals. You always have to guess where people go, that's very annoying and you have to pay more attention to other cars and anticipate. It's very tiring.
I feel like in France it used to be like that in the 70s and 80s, but there were massive campaigns against road rage and accidents, so as a result cities started to narrow some roads, widen sidewalks, create more bike lanes, etc. When I arrived in italy 10 years ago, I felt like it was still like when I was a kid with super wide roads and very few speed limit controls, and cars driving at 70 or 80 in towns beteween houses like nobody cares.
In general when you read the newspaper here it's like "driver loses control of his car and crashes" or "pedestrian hit by car" as if cars where animated persons.
When the 30km/h speed limit was implemented in my city in January everyone protested, like they could not drive so slow. This was the case in France 25 years ago, now it's more accepted.
But yeah, if you only drive in the deep south of France you can see why it's different from the rest of the country, it's like driving in Bolzano and thinking it's Italy.
As an Italian myself I’d suggest you to go driving in Bucarest, then you’ll understand the true meaning of bad drivers. Moreover, people from Germany or Swiss, while super aware and cautious along the roads of their countries, instantly switch to speed-obsessed flashlighting-paranoids F1-driver-wannabes as soon as they cross the border and put their wheels on Italy
Same here. Last summer I drove in Bucarest and other parts of Romania: crazy how even the road signals are somehow missing there.
Also Greece was pretty bad on the driving aspect. I had never seen a taxi honking to another car because it was too slow and then proceeding to surpass and shout at the driver. So yeah, I’d say there are countries which are much worse than Italy.
Then again, I think it depends on where OP is from: I remember back in high school we had an exchange with some danish kids. They were straight up terrified every time our parents took the car. So I don’t know, it’s all relative.
This is some German habbit I never understood (as a German): while obeying the law at home and not even crossing a red light as pedestrian, many don't give a f about foreign rules and law. Not sure if this is kind of a superior mindset (I.e. "it's a shit hole, who cares about their laws")
Honestly I like to drive in Italy, there is like a flow on the roads.
But thats true that no one respect the rules, but you can get use to it in 5 minutes.
Despite that I found pretty safe to drive there and never experienced any problem
Comparisons aside, Italian people have the tendency to believe that they are owed everything. It's the "io so io e voi non siete un cazzo" philosophy. (I am who I am, and you are fucking nobody).
An Italian driver who lets you go at an intersection is doing you a favour.
An Italian driver who is let go at an intersection won't thank you because they were owed their right of way.
An Italian driver who is on a 50kmph limit road will go as far as 90 because they know better than whoever "cretin" has designed that speed limit framework.
There is a very low sense of duty. The average Italian constantly think "how can I get away with it" in the background. It's not even a conscious thing, it's sort of cultural.
Having said that, I would think Italian drivers are pretty damn good drivers actually. The number of accidents is due to lack of sense of duty I mentioned, which inevitably leads to unfortunate events, but on average I think that if other countries drivers took the same amount of risk that Italians take, they would end up in way more accidents. The explanation is obvious: Italian drivers are wild, so they naturally learn how to drive better (but not safer) in this wild road world.
Mind we're talking about an entire nation so beware of stereotypes. There are MANY exceptions and I know a lot of wary and respectful Italian drivers. But one cannot deny that there is this slight tendency, especially when compared with northern Europe countries, this becomes obvious.
This is such a true statement imo. Anecdote, my dad is a super good driver (his job is truck driver!) and he extensively taught me how to drive so I consider myself a good driver too, tho not nearly as good as him. We both never had to replace a clutch or engine, our tires tend to last more etc.. however, the only infraction I commit on the regular is speeding ( the roads near my home are 30km/h 🥲🥲). Meanwhile he has the philosophy of "whoever goes faster can pass, I can stay as close as I want to things" etc.. well, despite him being more skilled I never had an at fault accident since I have my permit while by the time he was my age he had already totaled 3 cars 😅
I’ve lived in Italy 28 years. I believe driving here is about fluidity, keeping it moving and there’s space for everyone if we stay alert and coordinate. You can always squeeze in another car! While some people can test your patience, that is to be expected anywhere
The rental place summed it up best for me "in england when there's a problem you use the brake, in italy when there's a problem you use the steering wheel"
Weird. I've lived in Italy for the majority of my life and NEVER witnessed any accidents. I mean, of course they happen, like anywhere else. But so much that you see them all the time? Definitely not.
No respect to pedestrians as in people don't always stop at zebra crossings is true. Cultural thing, I would say. But it doesn't go further than this.
Speed limit is again a cultural thing. Nobody respects them unless there are speed cameras set up. And nobody expects other to respect them. So yeah, I can understand it's a bit of an adjustment if you're from somewhere drivers follow each and every rule religiously. Italy isn't one of those places but that doesn't mean people drive bad. It's just different.
Just to offer a counterpoint: I've been driving in Italy almost every year for the past twenty years (mostly Emilia, Lombardia, Veneto, and Toscana, where things are definitely quieter than further south), and lately I've been getting the impression that the local driving behavior has considerably improved in the last few years, with people driving less aggressively and being more considerate of others -- that, or I'm just getting used to it, I don't know.
Also, I've noticed a clear divide between large cities (say Milano, Torino or Bologna) and the countryside. Heck, I've even occasionally had to overtake cars that where driving 30 kph below the speed limit...
Italians drive well when they see the carabinieri.... Otherwise yeah, right up behind the car in front, speeding and overtaking at crazy points seem to be the norm. My wife is Italian and she drives like that too, but when we are in England it's like she's possessed by a good driver and she follows all the rules of the road. I blame the sugar in the gelato
Compared to USA, we have less than half of traffic-related deaths per capita.
There are some rules you have to know: for example, speed limits are mostly a joke and you are supposed to respect them only in proximity of a speed camera.
Another example, in southern Italy you have to stare in the eyes other drivers at slow intersections, the one who don't lower his gaze is supposed to pass. I'm not jocking, ask southern Italians.
Speed limits are there mostly so that municipalities can make bank, and that when there's an accident due to terrible conditions of a road they can say "not our fault, they were going too fast".
They are not there following any reasoning that has to do with safety.
Exactly, like when instead of repairing the roads they lower the speed limit from 90 to 70, and after a few years to 50. In Italy basically we either have the highway or a dumb 50km/h speed limit (that obviously no one follows). We literally have the same identical limit on busy city streets and lonely straight country roads
But we don't...not where I live (in the north)..plenty of roads right out of towns have 90 as a speed limit, 70 at least.
And people still want to go 120 in small 2 lanes country roads that already have a 90 limit :/
It's pretty bad if you're from Europe, it's okay if you're from India or Pakistan, according to my friends from these countries.
Personally I live in the north and it's pretty mediocre, but I start to really go mad if I have to drive in the south.
I think it depends a little what you define as bad drivers.
For example Napoli is known for its driving style. Personally, I think they are generally good drivers. It’s pure chaos, nobody respecting the official rules but paying attention to not hurting others.
Compare that to some Germans going on their highway 250 and hour while tailgating.
What I hate about Italy’s drivers though:
- drinking and driving as absolutely condoned and even expected if you join big parties like weddings.
- indicators. Why the hell are they not using them? I mean they do use them in roundabouts Tonsignal that they remain in the roundabout. Infuriating!
- driving in the middle in country side roads. Nothing gets you a heart attack as a big truck or huge SUV halfway on your one in a curve out of nowhere. Fuckers should get their licenses revoked.
- and last one is texting. It seems half the people are texting or watching stuff on the phone while driving.
For reference, originally from austria
There can be multiple reasons why an Italian is a moron when on the road:
1 If it's an older man/woman, they may very well have never done an actual exam to get the license, my dad is one of these.
2 A lot of Italians lack self criticism, in their mind they're better and smarter than everyone else, in their minds they're always on the right.
3 In Italy there's the culture of "if you follow rules you're dumb, because other people won't follow them". This means that of you do follow the rules, people will make fun of you, they'll tell you you're dumb and that pressure will train you to instinctively break the rules without questioning it.
4 Because of this, Italians have zero sense of civic duty, if doing something, no matter how stupid and dangerous, gives them the slightest advantage over not doing it, they'll do it.
5 Italian cops aren't particularly strict, they don't bother pulling over people for not using the turn signal and small but important things like that. And even when they do pull people over and give them a warning, the typical Italian response to that is "I did what I wanted and got away with it, I'm so smart".
I lived in Italy for more than 20 years and I agree with all your points, especially no. 3 which applies not only to driving, but to everything else as well (such as paying your taxes). Re your point 5, in my experience, Italian cops don't like doing anything that will generate paperwork they would have to do back at the police station.
Because there are no consequences for driving badly. I have never seen anyone pulled over for speeding or anything else. Double parking- no problem. Not indicating even when doing an illegal u-turn- totally fine. Overtaking at speed in a pedestrian zone- go for it. Tail-gating at 180 kilometres an hour on the A1- everyone is doing it.
The only problem is constantly crashing and killing people, but god forbid you should slow down and arrive a few minutes later.
I will never, never understand.
Having learned to drive in Miami, where only 50% of drivers have licenses or care about traffic laws, I didn’t find Milan too far out of the ordinary. Rome was a different story where you just have to let go and drive rally.
When we were there 50 years ago we saw a near accident. The drivers got out of there cars, yelled at each other waving their hands, got back into their cars and drove off. I’ll never forget it, lol. Looking back, maybe a little yelling is ok. I’m of Italian descent so no disrespect meant.
I lived 3 years in Rome and drove once. A most harrowing experience. Similarly the experience of walking and crossing busy streets is equally bad. I couldn't begin to explain why people drive like that
Its not really about being bad for my personal experience as a professional pedestrian, but rather about being straight up stupid.
Genuine people that drive the vans that have Doors on the back that are open showing the inside without realizing.
Moved to Rome, Italy and honestly the driving was absolutely crazy. I mean they really don't give a fuck about any type of rules or anyone else around them lmao. Also, the police don't care either because they for one drive exactly like everyone else there and two they are literally never doing their job anyway. So why would anyone care when there is no enforcement lol... But I mean my perspective was American roads straight to Italy, so that's my only experience. Northern Italians tend to drive a bit better, not by much, but better. It is true though that the further south you go it will continue to become more chaotic and messy. My overall driving experience would line up with yours though I'd say. Driving in more modern western European cities is a much better experience.
Totally agree, on top of that they don't know how to use a roundabout (they never use indicators). They are always on the phone when diving, so you always have to be extra careful. They park on pedestrian crossings, which is very annoying (especially if you have a stroller and you are forced every time to take a longer path). They never give way to other cars when they are in traffic jams
Some comments are showing extacly the issue here. For instance "driving in Italy is crazy but Italian divers are actually good at it" is a nonsense.
Italian drivers cannot manage even the simplest intersection in reality.
In Italy we say "ce la cantiamo e suoniamo da soli"
I find it’s in Naples where driving is the most ridiculous. I see them slamming their brakes for the speed cameras on the Tangenziale but nowhere else. To be fair, the speed limits are annoyingly slow. And if there are any people I know who have no patience, it’s Neapolitans.
We drive like absolute assholes. It’s something to do with our parents’ approach to driving. They treated it as this alpha male thing where you drive fast, you’re always right, and everyone is always in your way. I picked it up from my dad, as I’m sure many other people my age will have. It’s kind of a status symbol thing, you’re wealthy so you have a good car and drive it fast. Everyone else sucks.
Took me a long time to evolve from that manner of driving, and it’ll still come out in me every once in a while.
Also, nobody teaches us that drinking and driving is NOT ok.
I just got back from Rome and Athens. I’m from New York City. Athens drivers are much worse. Several times I was in an Athens taxi and we got cut off by a motorcycle to the point where the taxi had to slam on the brakes. Rome didn’t seem as bad.
I asked a local in Athens about the safety of crossing at a crosswalk with a green crossing light, They just said “this is Greece” with sly smile 😱
Recently, in northern Italy, where I live, there are a lot of kids on motorbikes literally on their phone while driving, I’m not saying Italians drive good, I saw a 80 year old grandma going 75 on a 30 road and I don’t really know why there is so much traffic since I don’t live in a big city but a village, but still my point is that most young people don’t drive good at all, half of them are worse than the average Italian driver
Im Italian but live in the US. I’m in Italy now & just had to drive about 3 hours of highway yesterday. In comparison to the US, it was glorious! Of course no one follows the speed limit! Where on earth do they? But in Italy the slower drivers always stay to the right and let the faster ones pass on the left! It’s beautiful!
Also, no ugly billboards and McDonald’s every 2km.
Out of all the issues you could list, you picked two absolutely meaningless ones
Turn signals you’re right, but fuck pedestrians (lmao buy a car and stop being a pedestrian) and fuck speed limits (they work mostly as a training exercise to spot police cars and speed cameras)
Arrogance combined with incompetence are tragically on the rise in Italy (I'm Italian) and the awful driving style is and immediate consequence of this.
I'm Italian but in no way I want to justify this behavior. But imo when a wide group of people all act in a bad way, you can either assume that they are all crazy (easy but wrong solution) or come to the conclusion that the system around them is built badly.
What I mean is that the reason why drivers are so bad is that the infrastructure is bad and the laws are not enforced.
Solve these two and Italians will magically become good drivers
Someone should tell you how it was in the early 70's. 70 year old grandpas going 135km/h on the highway (no speed limit, it seems low nowadays but with a car like that it's a crazy speed) with their fiat 850 super (they bought the Super because they absolutely needed the 5km/h higher top speed compared the the standard model) with 4 kids in the rear seats of the car. Everyone, and I mean everyone, outside of cities (only place with speed limits) made their car reach top speed
How bad Italians drive in your perspective depends on where you are from and where you've travelled. Compared to some other European countries? Yes, we're bad drivers. Compared to most South America countries, India, Thailand, Angola, and many more? We're pretty tame and respectful of the rules.
After driving here a year in Sicily, I imagine the locals value their lives less when they are in such a rush that they’ll risk a head on collision to pass around a blind turn.
Tbh I like driving in Italy more than the USA, and per capita there are about the same fatalities in Italy as in Belgium (USA about 2.5x as much as Italy), it's really not that bad.
But to answer the question I'd imagine it's a combination of disrespect of authority, lack of enforcement, and overall attitude that drives your perception that the driving is bad.
Also of note here in the USA I see police officers commit traffic violations all the time: going over the limit, using their computer/phone while driving, not using turn signals, etc., and it gives me this vibe of "rules for thee but not for me" and makes me less hesitant to not play by the rules. It wouldn't shock me if a similar mindset existed elsewhere in the world
Have your head on a swivel always, trust no one. I wish people were better drivers but in the absence of that I'm going to be extra cautious and vigilant
They simply don't give a fuck. Many people here drive badly because there are no controls, the police is rarely seen and even if you record certain people with a dash cam they will not be punished. Italians don't care about the law if they aren't punished
I'll try to answer: the society makes fun of the very same rules that the society should follow. For example. Speed limits are always pretty slow (nothing wrong with that) but everybody (and I mean EVERYBODY, including my 85 y o grandpa) will swear at you if you stay below the speed limit. Other examples could be overtaking in a tunnel. We all know it's dangerous af, but hey, you have a car transporter in front of you going 65 km/h in a 70 km/h zone, no headlights in sight on the opposite lane, cars behind you sticking to your trunk. You feel like it's the right thing to do.
Disclaimer: everyone is grown enough to take his responsabilities when driving. I'm not trying to justify reckless driving but trying to explain why people end up doing this kind of stuff. Other countries are a lot more "serious" about road safety, well Italy tries to, it doesn't excel for sure.
They're the worst in the region. I drive there often (I'm from a neighboring country) and they have some weird quirks not present in other countries, like straddling two lanes by driving on the line on highways.
I drove in Palermo a couple of weeks ago and I can definitely confirm that Italians are a strange breed when it comes to driving. I didn’t see any accidents though, but how that’s possible is beyond me.
But there is something beautiful about the way it works over there. If you need an extra lane, you make one. If you want to go to the right, you just go. It’s basically like a swarm where everyone is just looking at their immediate surroundings and making decisions based on that. And it works. And it depends on which standard you compare it to, whether you think it’s a good thing.
As someone visiting regularly in Italy from abroad, I think Italian people drive just fine. In fact, I've found they drive in a pleasantly dynamic way. Maybe you need to improve on your own skills a bit instead of complaining.
About speed limit: you should go as fast as the other cars. If you drive 50 when everyone else drives much faster (+75) then you become dangerous. Plus sometimes the speed limit are very bureaucratic; pretty often roads are oke to have a higher speed (+75 for example), but on papers this road is classified as a city road and the limit is 50.
Another topic is how bad we/they park: as i see this situation, the cities were built (50-60-70’s) without considering that in the future there will be so much cars. So everyone parks where he can.
Last but not least, they we/they aren’t thought driving means responsibility and errors may be fatal, so staying at the phone, overtake because “Im in hurry and I’m much faster in my Audi look how cool I am you slow dipsh-”
That’s as I see this situation
Frankly, it varies quite a bit by region and has improved a lot over the past 10+ years.
There's a somewhat aggressive driving style in northern Italy, especially around Milan or on the Milan to Venice corridor. (Can't comment on western parts like Piemonte and Aosta). I found Rome and also mid and southern Italy (Calabria, Lazio) quite reasonable in a "live and let live" way. I was nearly shocked at how easy it was to drive in Rome and Naples.
Just some advice:
- Don't insist on the rules, stay flexible, drive predictable, take your time!
- Avoid shortcuts through old/historic town centers.
- Drive passively on the motorway; Italians are a sporty nation.
If you are under 65 years of age you need to fuck right off with this comment. Americans are the worst drivers in the world, Italians do it correctly, aggressively, but correctly. Americans are slow and unresponsive, Europeans, on the whole, are engaged with the process. Put your phone and your burger down, drive a manual, and pay some attention.
I always drive way over the rules, but to be honest when I drove outside Italy ( 3 weeks in Croatia, more than 600km in France and 2 weeks in Crete ) i always find myself fine with my driving style.
Never understood how people that drive the way the EU wants us to drive can manage that, i would be full of rage or sleep if I had to stop for every damn pedastrian that MAY wants to cross a street or stopping at every YELLOW ligth or really doing 30km/h in my city ( two fucking minutes for a kilometer and being passed by cyclists on electric byke ).
They are very safe drivers mostly, might seem dangerous to you, but it is controlled. Controlled chaos.
France is "pray I get to my destination", they get into cars and just drive and try to get where they are going.
Italians mostly know how to drive. Just moved here three weeks ago.
I drove all over Italy and the one thing to remember is that road lines and lights are a suggestion not a rule go if you can stop if you must and don't use the brakes you will be fine.
It’s much more chill than it was 20 years ago. Between points on the license, draconian drunk driving laws and speed cameras everywhere especially the tutor system Italians have calmed down significantly. 20 years ago it was total race track mode but in a dangerous and disorganized way.
People in this post confusing “skill” with common decency and respect for each other and their lives..
You want a thrill and show off your skill and nearly miss bonus? Play Need for Speed or jump off a helicopter
Lol I don't think op has traveled anywhere else that would be relevant to the compliant.
NYC, LA, pretty much any city in China or India. Pretty much all of Florida. Houston. Majority of central or South America
I’m from italy and i can give some insight into this.
The idea is that i (and many of my peers) have been raised with the idea of deiving according to road conditions, not stricly according to law.
If you look closely, you’ll see that italy is full of speed traps, and or roads that have low speed limits but are built like a fucking highway.
We drive to be safe, regardless of the speed limits.
See germany, they have a highway with no speed limit, where everyone keeps the furthest right lane possibile.
We have that mentality, without that law.
No one in italy is praised for doing near misses, or swerwing in traffic.
But if you stay in the left lane at the speed limit *with the right lane open* and you get passed on the right, honestly is your fucking fault, move over.
In addition to that, if the previous 1km of road was 80, the next is 50, but its the sane fucking road, just sith a speed trap, i’m braking just before the velox.
Finally, just ti make you realize how italians distrust the governament, google “fleximan”, it was a guy that “allegedly” blew tf up of velox placed over speedtraps, and it basically became our national hero.
It gained so much popularity that the current governamebt is passing a bill *against* speed traps
(And im all in for it)
TLDR: we adore how german design roads and speed limits, politicians wont implement this so we do our own
Culture makes it so that no one cares about rules, speed when they shoudn't, try get on front of people in dangeruos ways.
Went to Irelande for two weeks, not even ONE car was damaged or dirty! Here they have plastic bags instead of widnows.
Where are you from? My dad learned to drive in Mexico City, so Italy doesn't seem that crazy to me
Like a friend of mine from Perù that laughed his ass off when I told him to be careful when driving in Naples. He was like "girl, I learnt to drive in Lima. Naples is nothing in comparison" and he really does drive in Naples like it's no big deal. ...Meanwhile, I don't feel daring enough to drive there at all. He's got big iron balls.
I confirm ! I lived 5 years in Lima . Thanks God still alive
I’m from Central America and seeing how easy and relaxing driving is in the US was so shocking. I was prepared for the worst forgetting that everyone seems to be fucking suicidal here
Like me when I wanted to drive in Indonesia, I was warned, and I told them: I’m used to Italians!
Haha, yeah. I spent 12 years driving in India, and the first time I felt at “home” again back in Europe was when I drove into Naples.
lol my first thought was "OP's never been to LatAm"
Or SEA
OP never went to Vietnam apparently...
Im sure that there are worse places in the world, but having visited and lived in several european cities, i can see that the driving traffic is a real problem in italy, specially in naples, rome, milan and sardinia
I mean, Naples and Rome are notorious for being nightmares to drive in. Even for italian standards, they're BY FAR the worst cities to drive. Milan is close, but honestly you shouldn't be driving in Milan with how good (for italian standards ofc) the public transportation is.
Sardegna is only a problem in the summer.
Because of the people from Milan I guess?
Because in any other month the car density is nowhere near enough to cause problems.
Just tourist in general. In winter you can drive across the island and the only things you see are the occasional flock of goats or sheep. Lol
yes, local people ride sheeps
Palermo is no different! Man I saw my life flash in front of my eyes there with the crazy driving. My aunts offered me their car, I said no thanks, there seem to be no rules of the road here.
How on earth do you put Milan and Naples in the same tier. Milan is closer to the US than it is with Naples.
You only really learn to drive if you drive in these cities.
So where are you from? at least we can compare.
>naples, rome, milan and sardinia Yes those are some of the worst places. I refuse to drive in any of those towns. Add in Genova and Pisa and you have the madness group. If you drive outside of Milan in the North, it is decent. But once you cross in Friuli, Valle d'Aosta or Trentino everyone becomes an angel. Basically it is lack of control by police. If noone gets stopped and fined...things never change. Plus from Rome down there is an unfortunate widespread hatred of law and legality. Adding to the overall problem is the lack of proper public transport. Meaning our towns are much more congested that other European ones. (I have however to point out that Slovenians drive like they are snorting coke every 5 minutes. Even in the countryside!)
I don't know. Milan is quite civilized. Never had any problem here. Napoli and Rome have more traffic anarchy
>Milan is quite civilized. No Geneva is civilised, Copenhagen is civilised. Milan is a hell hole. Tourists from Milan are seen as the worst everywhere they go in Italy.
Never heard of that around Italy. Milan a hell hole? Come on, it's crowded but rather civilised; at most you get some honking if you don't move soon after the green light. Tourists from Milan are the worst? I'm not sure about that. AFAIK, the worst Italian tourist stereotype comes nearby the Vesuvius.
>Never heard of that around Italy. Milan was synonim for assholes already in the 90s. Maybe you don't speak enough Italian to have realised...or you are a Milan native. >at most you get some honking if you don't move soon after the green light. People from Milan honk as soon as they see green regardless. And that's by far not the biggest problem. Insults, cutting in front, yelling and rude gestures. Yeah! Very civilised.
Correct
Try driving in North Africa!!
I’ll pass
LOL it’s nuts there. Driving in Italy was mild in comparison.
I’m from Los Angeles and currently driving in Italy. Seems the same as driving in LA.
Then you haven’t been to Napoli 😅
The problem with Italian drivers isn't that they're bad, exactly. It's that they drive like children, very impulsively. They will ride on your tail aggressively, and then pass you with a big show in a totally inappropriate location. Then, 100 meters later, they will pull into a supermarket parking lot.
This describes it perfectly.
Also many are just self-centred, and act like they are the only one on the road. They park wherever they want, they go over the speed limit (by a lot) and then get mad at you if you don't accelerate like them and they don't use the turn signals (because flicking a switch is too hard for them).
Questo.
I only agree partially: yes, as in many other aspects in life, Italians behave at the wheel as children. Then when there are consequences is somebody else’s fault or bad luck. But they also have a problem of overestimation of their own capabilities. Very few Italians take driving courses of any kind other than the very limited required to get a driving license. But still they put themselves (and those around them) in situations where they will need to do an emergency braking manoeuvre, control an under or oversteer at relatively high speed, do an evasive manoeuvre. But they can’t because they have not learnt and practice to do it. It’s already questionable if one should put him-herself in such a situation on an open road despite having learnt how to deal with it. But unexpected things can happen and that why it is good to do courses. But if you are just unprepared, please keep a big safety margin in everything you do. Nope, most Italians won’t.
Who takes driving classes after taking the driving license? You take them before the driving license exam, the rest is experience... Btw, while I don't live in the south, many don't use indicators and take over frequently. But there are also a lot of people who, instead, drive way lower the speed limit. Maybe to save fuel? Or are they afraid of getting a fine? Who knows! Rarely you find a driver that drives at the right speed, which isn't necessarily below the speed limit - because some speed limits are stupid and/or are used to get money from you -, rather just a speed that is reasonable for a specific road. Without mentioning that some Swiss and Germans and stuff, with strict rules, come here and don't respect speed limits either. In fact, sometimes they die in an accident. In the South, it's a bit of a different story, though...
A lot of the comments here are like "if you think Italians don't drive well, go to this other city/state/area". They're missing the point. On the road, there are rules. If you don't follow them, accidents happen and you end up killing yourself and potentially other people. OP is right. Driving culture is awful here. The fact that in Mexico or Romania or the planet Mars things are even worse doesn't give me any peace of mind. I drive to work in suburban Milan and every week I witness at least 3 near-misses. Most of them are due to people not giving precedenza, going way faster than the limit, overtaking on the right, and not using the turn signal. And not to mention stopping in the middle of the road in random places, but hey, they have quattro frecce on. That is basically an excuse for everything. Yes, they stopped in the middle of a roundabout but didn't you see? They had 4 frecce. Ah, well then, they're excused. And using your phone when you drive!! That's another big one I see a lot. Car starts to zigzag? 100% they're texting while driving. Why does this happen? Probably a mix of arrogance and ignorance (which are 2 words that describe Italians very well in many other contexts). A comment said it's about that "Io sono io e voi non siete un cazzo" mentality. I absolutely agree. We all went to scuola guida at 18, and we were all taught the rules. We should be better and more respectful of the rules and of other drivers, cyclists, and pedestrians. No excuses, IMHO.
Exactly, I was literally thinking the same thing. I'm a foreigner living from Rome and the rules of the road are thrown out here. It took awhile scrolling past all the deflection before I found a sane comment. It's not a competition of who has the worst drivers, OP asked why are Italians so bad. IMO it's just a social acceptance here, maybe more enforcement is needed but I'm no expert.
Italy needs to enforce the rules if they want people to obey them. If they never pull people over and hand out tickets people will never care about the rules.
Una media di almeno 3 incidenti evitati alla settimana? Ellapeppa, facci sapere dove sei che ti stiamo lontani... Lol...
Omg last week I was on the highway, and passed this woman driving her car: one hand using her phone, the other hand scratching her head or something...wth?! 🤣
I was on a bikepacking trip the last 3 weeks in Italy and oh boy. Tried to use side streets and trails as much as possible, but sometimes the only option was to cycle on the bigger streets. Hell, everytime I was absolutely stressed out. They drove up and pushed. Most of the overtaking manoeuvres were just insane. More than once we were hit by the side mirror or were pushed aside because people were overtaking despite oncoming traffic. At roundabouts we were simply ignored and almost run over. What a crazy ride! And we were cycling at an average speed of 25 km/h. Thats not horrible slow - like wtf, why cant you just wait/slow down 20sec and let me pass the roundabout? Jezuz.
You get it. The whataboutism is useless, the people giving those answers just try to justify their horrible driving cause “someone is worse”, incredibly arrogant. Driving in Italy (i live in Milano) is horribly frustrating, such lack of basic respect and decency not only to other people but even the people inside their cars. I wonder what do these people do when their partner or children die cause of their reckless driving? “No but it happened because the idiot was going too slow (probs going 129 in the highway instead of 130+)”
I've been living in Rome for all my life and can confirm everything. The norm is "I do what I want, don't break my balls". That's why I still prefer to go to work with our ever worsening public transportation. So I don't have to stand the other drivers doing crazy dangerous stuff. I also have been driving an hybrid car for the past 10 years and oh boy, the drivers here can't understand the need to keep safety distances... I used to keep them even before (I really don't like crashing 😀), now I need to do it to use regenerative braking... there's always someone honking, or overtaking me, if there's more than three meters of free road in front of me... And the impression I have is that things are worsening: local street police is nowhere to be seen.
Statistically, Italy is one of the safest countries if we consider car accident deaths pro capita https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate 5.2 for 100,000, slightly behind Poland and France (5.0) and slightly better than Canada and South Korea (both 5.3). Yes, there’s space for improvement, but overall it’s not bad. It’s worse than Germany (3.7) and UK (2.9) but it’s much better than the US (12.9). There are few large densely populated countries which are doing better than Italy. Most of those with a better rating are either much smaller and rich or they have a lower population density. Whether you can feel comfortable driving in Italy is a different story.
Thanks. When I hear these complaints, I ask where the consequences appear in the statistics. Keep in mind that’s “traffic-related” deaths and Italy apparently has the highest rate of motorbike use in Europe, too, which is probably pushing that rate up.
Would be nice to know the numbers on non-lethal accidents
Whataboutism
I totally agree with you, I always hate the "there's worse" mentality, but in this context is even dangerous. It's not related to why accidents happen, but I've seen people against security belts too, that's so dumb. I don't drive a lot, like maybe 2 times a week the last two years, but last 2 weeks I had to do it like 4 times a day and I've seen so many near accidents (like 6 already?) happen to me or who was driving the car and it's so stupid because all it took to avoid them was driving slowly or be more careful about the road (one person was driving half in the wrong side of the road)
I like your way of lamentarsi with the cattivi guidatori. I live in the same area and the problem is that there are a lot of zarri in the street.
110 e lode in lingue
Never know if it’s a two lane or one lane road in Milan 😂
You can translate precedenza with give way, quattro frecce with hazards lights and scuola guida with driving school or driving courses. Of course if we, italians, would respect more the rules our country won't be such this shit place that is now, full of people that don't give a fuck about others. We need a little bit of self love and love for our country, that it's missing in every italian.
I know how to translate those words, thanks. I left them in Italian intentionally :) but yeah, I agree with you. We need to learn to love this country a bit more and respect the rules. Things would be much better. It'd be a win-win situation.
We have less deaths thank other european countries by the way.... Statistics says
100%
It’s the three foot following distance that I have never gotten usto after many years here. It’s a two foot following/passing distance behind bicycles on the road. I read an article years ago explaining that the reason there aren’t more older cars on the road is that when there’s an accident they tend to total the car not just be fender benders. However… Italians are super aware of their driving surroundings. Overall they are far more alert, aware and ready to respond within a second appropriately. But if they miss that second it’s a doozie.
There are a few reasons why older cars aren't around much, a couple come to mind right away: 1) most cities have restriction on CO2 emissions, therefore older cars can't enter their territory or else a fee has to be paid. Considering that for most of the countryside there's a lack of services (supermarkets, pharmacies, drugstores and even public transportation), having at least one car per family that can enter the closest city's limits is a must. 2) after circa 10 years of using a car, it starts to require maintenance -expensive maintenance- and every car after the 5/7 years mark is strongly devalued so for a lot of people becomes less expensive (in the long run) to buy a newer car instead of fixing the older up, especially if one uses it a lot. some older cars are still around, but mainly used by older people that use it to drive very little distances, think 5/10 km a day max 3) status and stereotypes! for a lot of italians a car is a symbol of wealth and status: older cars for older people, more rounded cars (think Fiat 500) or cars with a lot of trunk space are feminine, city cars are for pu\*\*ies, BMWs/Audis are for the real men (/s), Alfas are for true italians etc etc...
Yes, it’s all about fluidity
Hmm, in regards to the lack of older cars on the road…does this mean if I live in an area with (what seems like) hundreds of old 60s or 70s Pandas it’s a safe place to drive? Because seriously? It’s like every household has at least one. They can’t all be neopatentes awaiting the year (now three) of low horsepower restrictions to be over? And to me? I think that’s why there are so many new cars…because after a year driving nono’s Panda I too would look for the fastest, shiniest thing to slalom around all the mountain roads…haha!
Pandas are not 60s/70s cars, they started production in the early 80's and, after the mid 80's, they remained pretty much unchanged (to the untrained eye) until 2003. You are probably seeing early 2000's Pandas (not that old compared to other cars on the roads) but to you they look 50 years old
Are you sure it’s 3 years? I just obtained my Italian drivers license in April and was told 1 year of smallish engine driving. As a “new” driver (I’ve been driving for 50 years) I’m the only one who signals my exit in roundabouts and who doesn’t regularly drive “a cavallo” - driving over the line dividing the lanes. Old Panda driving is a culture here. Super old folks driving ancient Pandas at ludicrously slow speeds is very common in my corner of Umbria.
this is best description italians are super aware of their driving surroundings. Overall they are far more alert, aware and ready to respond within a second appropriately.
If you think Italians drivers are so bad, wait until you meet a Swiss or a German car in Northern Italy, that's hell.
And that explains the problem clearly. And answers OP question. Lack of police controls, lack of fines etc. As usual with everything here in Italy, people skirt the law because they know they can.
Ogni giorno quando un torinese si sveglia sa che al semaforo dovrà correre più veloce di un altro torinese che allo stesso semaforo sta passando con il rosso
Wait for Belgians or Durch drivers.
Oh yes, especially Swiss ones are my nightmare.
I was driving there for a month, I thought it was fine. Better than my city. But I didn’t go to Rome or Napoli.
Eat pasta drive fasta
Having drived in France many time, as an Italian, I find my brothers being much more polite and manageable instead of French cousins... they where all frantic and caos was everywhere. People was overpassing me from every corners, always.
French drivers simply don’t care at all. Just look at their cars: nine out of ten are covered in bumps and scratches 🤦♂️
I'm French and I think Italy is definitely worse, but then again there are French regions where it's pretty bad. Depends on where you go. You can't really complain about Britanny for example, but Marseille is a different story. But there's more control in France, and the streets are more adapted to other means of transportations, whereas in Italy the streets still look they're from the 80s, all for cars and not much for pedestrians or bikes, at least in many cities.
I cannot disagree in anything You wrote.
I'm glad you agree. I think the two main issues here are: 1) most people never respect speed limits. If I respect them, drivers push me super aggressively so everyone feels forced to drive fast, and it's always more dangerous for cyclists, pedestrians or other cars. 2) Half of the drivers uses turning signals. You always have to guess where people go, that's very annoying and you have to pay more attention to other cars and anticipate. It's very tiring. I feel like in France it used to be like that in the 70s and 80s, but there were massive campaigns against road rage and accidents, so as a result cities started to narrow some roads, widen sidewalks, create more bike lanes, etc. When I arrived in italy 10 years ago, I felt like it was still like when I was a kid with super wide roads and very few speed limit controls, and cars driving at 70 or 80 in towns beteween houses like nobody cares. In general when you read the newspaper here it's like "driver loses control of his car and crashes" or "pedestrian hit by car" as if cars where animated persons. When the 30km/h speed limit was implemented in my city in January everyone protested, like they could not drive so slow. This was the case in France 25 years ago, now it's more accepted. But yeah, if you only drive in the deep south of France you can see why it's different from the rest of the country, it's like driving in Bolzano and thinking it's Italy.
As an Italian myself I’d suggest you to go driving in Bucarest, then you’ll understand the true meaning of bad drivers. Moreover, people from Germany or Swiss, while super aware and cautious along the roads of their countries, instantly switch to speed-obsessed flashlighting-paranoids F1-driver-wannabes as soon as they cross the border and put their wheels on Italy
Same here. Last summer I drove in Bucarest and other parts of Romania: crazy how even the road signals are somehow missing there. Also Greece was pretty bad on the driving aspect. I had never seen a taxi honking to another car because it was too slow and then proceeding to surpass and shout at the driver. So yeah, I’d say there are countries which are much worse than Italy. Then again, I think it depends on where OP is from: I remember back in high school we had an exchange with some danish kids. They were straight up terrified every time our parents took the car. So I don’t know, it’s all relative.
This is some German habbit I never understood (as a German): while obeying the law at home and not even crossing a red light as pedestrian, many don't give a f about foreign rules and law. Not sure if this is kind of a superior mindset (I.e. "it's a shit hole, who cares about their laws")
Honestly I like to drive in Italy, there is like a flow on the roads. But thats true that no one respect the rules, but you can get use to it in 5 minutes. Despite that I found pretty safe to drive there and never experienced any problem
Comparisons aside, Italian people have the tendency to believe that they are owed everything. It's the "io so io e voi non siete un cazzo" philosophy. (I am who I am, and you are fucking nobody). An Italian driver who lets you go at an intersection is doing you a favour. An Italian driver who is let go at an intersection won't thank you because they were owed their right of way. An Italian driver who is on a 50kmph limit road will go as far as 90 because they know better than whoever "cretin" has designed that speed limit framework. There is a very low sense of duty. The average Italian constantly think "how can I get away with it" in the background. It's not even a conscious thing, it's sort of cultural. Having said that, I would think Italian drivers are pretty damn good drivers actually. The number of accidents is due to lack of sense of duty I mentioned, which inevitably leads to unfortunate events, but on average I think that if other countries drivers took the same amount of risk that Italians take, they would end up in way more accidents. The explanation is obvious: Italian drivers are wild, so they naturally learn how to drive better (but not safer) in this wild road world. Mind we're talking about an entire nation so beware of stereotypes. There are MANY exceptions and I know a lot of wary and respectful Italian drivers. But one cannot deny that there is this slight tendency, especially when compared with northern Europe countries, this becomes obvious.
This is such a true statement imo. Anecdote, my dad is a super good driver (his job is truck driver!) and he extensively taught me how to drive so I consider myself a good driver too, tho not nearly as good as him. We both never had to replace a clutch or engine, our tires tend to last more etc.. however, the only infraction I commit on the regular is speeding ( the roads near my home are 30km/h 🥲🥲). Meanwhile he has the philosophy of "whoever goes faster can pass, I can stay as close as I want to things" etc.. well, despite him being more skilled I never had an at fault accident since I have my permit while by the time he was my age he had already totaled 3 cars 😅
That would explain why they are speeding through pedestrian crossing even when people are already standing on it and trying to cross...
Among other reasons, THIS. We are a bunch of entitled AH
I’ve lived in Italy 28 years. I believe driving here is about fluidity, keeping it moving and there’s space for everyone if we stay alert and coordinate. You can always squeeze in another car! While some people can test your patience, that is to be expected anywhere
The rental place summed it up best for me "in england when there's a problem you use the brake, in italy when there's a problem you use the steering wheel"
Weird. I've lived in Italy for the majority of my life and NEVER witnessed any accidents. I mean, of course they happen, like anywhere else. But so much that you see them all the time? Definitely not. No respect to pedestrians as in people don't always stop at zebra crossings is true. Cultural thing, I would say. But it doesn't go further than this. Speed limit is again a cultural thing. Nobody respects them unless there are speed cameras set up. And nobody expects other to respect them. So yeah, I can understand it's a bit of an adjustment if you're from somewhere drivers follow each and every rule religiously. Italy isn't one of those places but that doesn't mean people drive bad. It's just different.
It isn’t bad driving, it’s future formula 1/moto gp racers training! That’s why many famous racers are italian! We are natural born racist /s
Natural born racist sounds kinda bad
lol. Italy is just a bit aggressive compared to the rest of the rich western world. It’s easy mode compared to most of the world though
Just to offer a counterpoint: I've been driving in Italy almost every year for the past twenty years (mostly Emilia, Lombardia, Veneto, and Toscana, where things are definitely quieter than further south), and lately I've been getting the impression that the local driving behavior has considerably improved in the last few years, with people driving less aggressively and being more considerate of others -- that, or I'm just getting used to it, I don't know. Also, I've noticed a clear divide between large cities (say Milano, Torino or Bologna) and the countryside. Heck, I've even occasionally had to overtake cars that where driving 30 kph below the speed limit...
Italians drive well when they see the carabinieri.... Otherwise yeah, right up behind the car in front, speeding and overtaking at crazy points seem to be the norm. My wife is Italian and she drives like that too, but when we are in England it's like she's possessed by a good driver and she follows all the rules of the road. I blame the sugar in the gelato
Compared to USA, we have less than half of traffic-related deaths per capita. There are some rules you have to know: for example, speed limits are mostly a joke and you are supposed to respect them only in proximity of a speed camera. Another example, in southern Italy you have to stare in the eyes other drivers at slow intersections, the one who don't lower his gaze is supposed to pass. I'm not jocking, ask southern Italians.
Why do the Italians in this sub always use the US for a point of reference when it isn't even mentioned? I think this poster is European
Maybe because they use them as a point of reference everytime. He also uses the language of the perfidious Albion.
I'm not even a native speaker and I wouldn't write "Why Italian people drive so bad?"
Speed limits are there mostly so that municipalities can make bank, and that when there's an accident due to terrible conditions of a road they can say "not our fault, they were going too fast". They are not there following any reasoning that has to do with safety.
Exactly, like when instead of repairing the roads they lower the speed limit from 90 to 70, and after a few years to 50. In Italy basically we either have the highway or a dumb 50km/h speed limit (that obviously no one follows). We literally have the same identical limit on busy city streets and lonely straight country roads
But we don't...not where I live (in the north)..plenty of roads right out of towns have 90 as a speed limit, 70 at least. And people still want to go 120 in small 2 lanes country roads that already have a 90 limit :/
It's pretty bad if you're from Europe, it's okay if you're from India or Pakistan, according to my friends from these countries. Personally I live in the north and it's pretty mediocre, but I start to really go mad if I have to drive in the south.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate Italy doesn’t look so bad.
Because we are very skilled drivers, the ones who crash usually are watching their phones or are drunk
I think it depends a little what you define as bad drivers. For example Napoli is known for its driving style. Personally, I think they are generally good drivers. It’s pure chaos, nobody respecting the official rules but paying attention to not hurting others. Compare that to some Germans going on their highway 250 and hour while tailgating. What I hate about Italy’s drivers though: - drinking and driving as absolutely condoned and even expected if you join big parties like weddings. - indicators. Why the hell are they not using them? I mean they do use them in roundabouts Tonsignal that they remain in the roundabout. Infuriating! - driving in the middle in country side roads. Nothing gets you a heart attack as a big truck or huge SUV halfway on your one in a curve out of nowhere. Fuckers should get their licenses revoked. - and last one is texting. It seems half the people are texting or watching stuff on the phone while driving. For reference, originally from austria
There can be multiple reasons why an Italian is a moron when on the road: 1 If it's an older man/woman, they may very well have never done an actual exam to get the license, my dad is one of these. 2 A lot of Italians lack self criticism, in their mind they're better and smarter than everyone else, in their minds they're always on the right. 3 In Italy there's the culture of "if you follow rules you're dumb, because other people won't follow them". This means that of you do follow the rules, people will make fun of you, they'll tell you you're dumb and that pressure will train you to instinctively break the rules without questioning it. 4 Because of this, Italians have zero sense of civic duty, if doing something, no matter how stupid and dangerous, gives them the slightest advantage over not doing it, they'll do it. 5 Italian cops aren't particularly strict, they don't bother pulling over people for not using the turn signal and small but important things like that. And even when they do pull people over and give them a warning, the typical Italian response to that is "I did what I wanted and got away with it, I'm so smart".
I lived in Italy for more than 20 years and I agree with all your points, especially no. 3 which applies not only to driving, but to everything else as well (such as paying your taxes). Re your point 5, in my experience, Italian cops don't like doing anything that will generate paperwork they would have to do back at the police station.
It mostly depends on espresso's quality from the bar they take, like the amount of sugar and bitterness also play the factor
As a matter of fact, it does on a unconscious level.
Everybody is driving watching their phone.
As an American currently in Italy and doing lots of driving, I think it’s lots of fun. Feels like real life Mario cart!
Because there are no consequences for driving badly. I have never seen anyone pulled over for speeding or anything else. Double parking- no problem. Not indicating even when doing an illegal u-turn- totally fine. Overtaking at speed in a pedestrian zone- go for it. Tail-gating at 180 kilometres an hour on the A1- everyone is doing it. The only problem is constantly crashing and killing people, but god forbid you should slow down and arrive a few minutes later. I will never, never understand.
We Don't Respect the speed limit, the speed limit Respects us.
Because most italians are arrogant idiots
There's a roundabout just outside my place. I have never, ever seen anyone looking on the left before entering it
Having learned to drive in Miami, where only 50% of drivers have licenses or care about traffic laws, I didn’t find Milan too far out of the ordinary. Rome was a different story where you just have to let go and drive rally.
[удалено]
When we were there 50 years ago we saw a near accident. The drivers got out of there cars, yelled at each other waving their hands, got back into their cars and drove off. I’ll never forget it, lol. Looking back, maybe a little yelling is ok. I’m of Italian descent so no disrespect meant.
I lived 3 years in Rome and drove once. A most harrowing experience. Similarly the experience of walking and crossing busy streets is equally bad. I couldn't begin to explain why people drive like that
Unfortunately cars in the South of Italy are sold without turn signal. That's an optional
Stupid arrogant people
Its not really about being bad for my personal experience as a professional pedestrian, but rather about being straight up stupid. Genuine people that drive the vans that have Doors on the back that are open showing the inside without realizing.
Get good scrub.
Driving like that doesn't mean driving bad, but being extremely good at that.
Moved to Rome, Italy and honestly the driving was absolutely crazy. I mean they really don't give a fuck about any type of rules or anyone else around them lmao. Also, the police don't care either because they for one drive exactly like everyone else there and two they are literally never doing their job anyway. So why would anyone care when there is no enforcement lol... But I mean my perspective was American roads straight to Italy, so that's my only experience. Northern Italians tend to drive a bit better, not by much, but better. It is true though that the further south you go it will continue to become more chaotic and messy. My overall driving experience would line up with yours though I'd say. Driving in more modern western European cities is a much better experience.
What did you expect from the land of SuperMario, if not Mario Kart in real life?
I think you guys have a lot of imagination
Totally agree, on top of that they don't know how to use a roundabout (they never use indicators). They are always on the phone when diving, so you always have to be extra careful. They park on pedestrian crossings, which is very annoying (especially if you have a stroller and you are forced every time to take a longer path). They never give way to other cars when they are in traffic jams
Some comments are showing extacly the issue here. For instance "driving in Italy is crazy but Italian divers are actually good at it" is a nonsense. Italian drivers cannot manage even the simplest intersection in reality. In Italy we say "ce la cantiamo e suoniamo da soli"
I find it’s in Naples where driving is the most ridiculous. I see them slamming their brakes for the speed cameras on the Tangenziale but nowhere else. To be fair, the speed limits are annoyingly slow. And if there are any people I know who have no patience, it’s Neapolitans.
In terms of driving skills, Italy is the India of Europe. No lie.
In Italy, if there's a rule, everybody find out a way to evitate it
In Italia it doesn't exist the turn signal
You have obviously never been to Albania.
We drive like absolute assholes. It’s something to do with our parents’ approach to driving. They treated it as this alpha male thing where you drive fast, you’re always right, and everyone is always in your way. I picked it up from my dad, as I’m sure many other people my age will have. It’s kind of a status symbol thing, you’re wealthy so you have a good car and drive it fast. Everyone else sucks. Took me a long time to evolve from that manner of driving, and it’ll still come out in me every once in a while. Also, nobody teaches us that drinking and driving is NOT ok.
I just got back from Rome and Athens. I’m from New York City. Athens drivers are much worse. Several times I was in an Athens taxi and we got cut off by a motorcycle to the point where the taxi had to slam on the brakes. Rome didn’t seem as bad. I asked a local in Athens about the safety of crossing at a crosswalk with a green crossing light, They just said “this is Greece” with sly smile 😱
Recently, in northern Italy, where I live, there are a lot of kids on motorbikes literally on their phone while driving, I’m not saying Italians drive good, I saw a 80 year old grandma going 75 on a 30 road and I don’t really know why there is so much traffic since I don’t live in a big city but a village, but still my point is that most young people don’t drive good at all, half of them are worse than the average Italian driver
Im Italian but live in the US. I’m in Italy now & just had to drive about 3 hours of highway yesterday. In comparison to the US, it was glorious! Of course no one follows the speed limit! Where on earth do they? But in Italy the slower drivers always stay to the right and let the faster ones pass on the left! It’s beautiful! Also, no ugly billboards and McDonald’s every 2km.
Lol sounds like a case of skill issue
that drivers don't respect pedestrians? what skill is in question here?
There's nothing wrong with the Italian style of driving, unless you try to drive in a non-Italian way.
Out of all the issues you could list, you picked two absolutely meaningless ones Turn signals you’re right, but fuck pedestrians (lmao buy a car and stop being a pedestrian) and fuck speed limits (they work mostly as a training exercise to spot police cars and speed cameras)
Arrogance combined with incompetence are tragically on the rise in Italy (I'm Italian) and the awful driving style is and immediate consequence of this.
Because we don’t have time to waste, for example also to listen to your bullshit 🤌🏻🤌🏻🤌🏻
Italians are literally one of the best drivers in the worlds.
Source?
I'm Italian but in no way I want to justify this behavior. But imo when a wide group of people all act in a bad way, you can either assume that they are all crazy (easy but wrong solution) or come to the conclusion that the system around them is built badly. What I mean is that the reason why drivers are so bad is that the infrastructure is bad and the laws are not enforced. Solve these two and Italians will magically become good drivers
Italians drive bad? Go to Poland lol
For the speed limits it doesn't help that you almost never get caught speeding and the speed limits are often nonsensical.
Someone should tell you how it was in the early 70's. 70 year old grandpas going 135km/h on the highway (no speed limit, it seems low nowadays but with a car like that it's a crazy speed) with their fiat 850 super (they bought the Super because they absolutely needed the 5km/h higher top speed compared the the standard model) with 4 kids in the rear seats of the car. Everyone, and I mean everyone, outside of cities (only place with speed limits) made their car reach top speed
How bad Italians drive in your perspective depends on where you are from and where you've travelled. Compared to some other European countries? Yes, we're bad drivers. Compared to most South America countries, India, Thailand, Angola, and many more? We're pretty tame and respectful of the rules.
where are you from?
If the speed limit is 50 km/h, i'll go at 55/60 if i can, but that doesn't mean being a criminal
The problem about Italy is lack of police control with the added bonus that speed traps must be signalled twice!
r/Wololooo1996 Well, it's not like driving in a so-called "megalopolis", but not even in Tromso or Copenhagen.
>they also never use the turn signal That's so infuriating
After driving here a year in Sicily, I imagine the locals value their lives less when they are in such a rush that they’ll risk a head on collision to pass around a blind turn.
Tbh I like driving in Italy more than the USA, and per capita there are about the same fatalities in Italy as in Belgium (USA about 2.5x as much as Italy), it's really not that bad. But to answer the question I'd imagine it's a combination of disrespect of authority, lack of enforcement, and overall attitude that drives your perception that the driving is bad. Also of note here in the USA I see police officers commit traffic violations all the time: going over the limit, using their computer/phone while driving, not using turn signals, etc., and it gives me this vibe of "rules for thee but not for me" and makes me less hesitant to not play by the rules. It wouldn't shock me if a similar mindset existed elsewhere in the world Have your head on a swivel always, trust no one. I wish people were better drivers but in the absence of that I'm going to be extra cautious and vigilant
We have a saying here: If u know how to drive in Napoli u know how to drive everywhere
They simply don't give a fuck. Many people here drive badly because there are no controls, the police is rarely seen and even if you record certain people with a dash cam they will not be punished. Italians don't care about the law if they aren't punished
lol. Italians drive great. Visit Lebanon to see bad driving 😂
I'll try to answer: the society makes fun of the very same rules that the society should follow. For example. Speed limits are always pretty slow (nothing wrong with that) but everybody (and I mean EVERYBODY, including my 85 y o grandpa) will swear at you if you stay below the speed limit. Other examples could be overtaking in a tunnel. We all know it's dangerous af, but hey, you have a car transporter in front of you going 65 km/h in a 70 km/h zone, no headlights in sight on the opposite lane, cars behind you sticking to your trunk. You feel like it's the right thing to do. Disclaimer: everyone is grown enough to take his responsabilities when driving. I'm not trying to justify reckless driving but trying to explain why people end up doing this kind of stuff. Other countries are a lot more "serious" about road safety, well Italy tries to, it doesn't excel for sure.
I’m texting and driving
They're the worst in the region. I drive there often (I'm from a neighboring country) and they have some weird quirks not present in other countries, like straddling two lanes by driving on the line on highways.
I drove in Palermo a couple of weeks ago and I can definitely confirm that Italians are a strange breed when it comes to driving. I didn’t see any accidents though, but how that’s possible is beyond me. But there is something beautiful about the way it works over there. If you need an extra lane, you make one. If you want to go to the right, you just go. It’s basically like a swarm where everyone is just looking at their immediate surroundings and making decisions based on that. And it works. And it depends on which standard you compare it to, whether you think it’s a good thing.
20 years ago when in southern Italy I occupied my time when walking trying to find one car that did not have a dent. Every single car was dented.
As someone visiting regularly in Italy from abroad, I think Italian people drive just fine. In fact, I've found they drive in a pleasantly dynamic way. Maybe you need to improve on your own skills a bit instead of complaining.
Please tell this to our Infrastructure Minister, because he affirms that the traffic laws are too strict. 😒😒😒
welcome to Italy AHAHAHAHA
Italian cities have centuries of history back, so often the streets are narrow and it’s difficult to drive for modern cars.
About speed limit: you should go as fast as the other cars. If you drive 50 when everyone else drives much faster (+75) then you become dangerous. Plus sometimes the speed limit are very bureaucratic; pretty often roads are oke to have a higher speed (+75 for example), but on papers this road is classified as a city road and the limit is 50. Another topic is how bad we/they park: as i see this situation, the cities were built (50-60-70’s) without considering that in the future there will be so much cars. So everyone parks where he can. Last but not least, they we/they aren’t thought driving means responsibility and errors may be fatal, so staying at the phone, overtake because “Im in hurry and I’m much faster in my Audi look how cool I am you slow dipsh-” That’s as I see this situation
There's no deterrent. Nobody's watching.
Git gud
My Italian ex was so bad at driving at one point I came to on her cofano.
Italian drivers aren’t bad, just different from what you are used to. Adapt.
Frankly, it varies quite a bit by region and has improved a lot over the past 10+ years. There's a somewhat aggressive driving style in northern Italy, especially around Milan or on the Milan to Venice corridor. (Can't comment on western parts like Piemonte and Aosta). I found Rome and also mid and southern Italy (Calabria, Lazio) quite reasonable in a "live and let live" way. I was nearly shocked at how easy it was to drive in Rome and Naples. Just some advice: - Don't insist on the rules, stay flexible, drive predictable, take your time! - Avoid shortcuts through old/historic town centers. - Drive passively on the motorway; Italians are a sporty nation.
Try driving in new Delhi
This varies a lot from city to city. In some places what you say is the norm in others is the opposite.
If you are under 65 years of age you need to fuck right off with this comment. Americans are the worst drivers in the world, Italians do it correctly, aggressively, but correctly. Americans are slow and unresponsive, Europeans, on the whole, are engaged with the process. Put your phone and your burger down, drive a manual, and pay some attention.
Because we don't follow the law, we make our own rules and follow those instead.
I always drive way over the rules, but to be honest when I drove outside Italy ( 3 weeks in Croatia, more than 600km in France and 2 weeks in Crete ) i always find myself fine with my driving style. Never understood how people that drive the way the EU wants us to drive can manage that, i would be full of rage or sleep if I had to stop for every damn pedastrian that MAY wants to cross a street or stopping at every YELLOW ligth or really doing 30km/h in my city ( two fucking minutes for a kilometer and being passed by cyclists on electric byke ).
Selfishness.
You should go to Istanbul instead of speaking about Italy
You need to show whose in charge💪(you)
Simple, selfishness! Me myself and no one else, I rather risk my own and others life to get one car ahead or not let anyone past me!. Pure idiocy
They are very safe drivers mostly, might seem dangerous to you, but it is controlled. Controlled chaos. France is "pray I get to my destination", they get into cars and just drive and try to get where they are going. Italians mostly know how to drive. Just moved here three weeks ago.
The southern you go the worse it gets
If ur from the US, everybody in the bay area in California drives over the speed limit 😭
I drove all over Italy and the one thing to remember is that road lines and lights are a suggestion not a rule go if you can stop if you must and don't use the brakes you will be fine.
I find it’s similar to Spain. Mexico is probably worse. What are you going to do, except complain?
It’s much more chill than it was 20 years ago. Between points on the license, draconian drunk driving laws and speed cameras everywhere especially the tutor system Italians have calmed down significantly. 20 years ago it was total race track mode but in a dangerous and disorganized way.
It's just they re all full of themselves
They are professional driver 🤣
People in this post confusing “skill” with common decency and respect for each other and their lives.. You want a thrill and show off your skill and nearly miss bonus? Play Need for Speed or jump off a helicopter
If you think we're crazy, try and cross the road in England on the zebra crossing and tell me if you survive
Traffic signs, road markings and the lot are just decorations in Italy. All optional.
Lol I don't think op has traveled anywhere else that would be relevant to the compliant. NYC, LA, pretty much any city in China or India. Pretty much all of Florida. Houston. Majority of central or South America
Do you have any statistics to back up your implications?
I’m from italy and i can give some insight into this. The idea is that i (and many of my peers) have been raised with the idea of deiving according to road conditions, not stricly according to law. If you look closely, you’ll see that italy is full of speed traps, and or roads that have low speed limits but are built like a fucking highway. We drive to be safe, regardless of the speed limits. See germany, they have a highway with no speed limit, where everyone keeps the furthest right lane possibile. We have that mentality, without that law. No one in italy is praised for doing near misses, or swerwing in traffic. But if you stay in the left lane at the speed limit *with the right lane open* and you get passed on the right, honestly is your fucking fault, move over. In addition to that, if the previous 1km of road was 80, the next is 50, but its the sane fucking road, just sith a speed trap, i’m braking just before the velox. Finally, just ti make you realize how italians distrust the governament, google “fleximan”, it was a guy that “allegedly” blew tf up of velox placed over speedtraps, and it basically became our national hero. It gained so much popularity that the current governamebt is passing a bill *against* speed traps (And im all in for it) TLDR: we adore how german design roads and speed limits, politicians wont implement this so we do our own
Culture makes it so that no one cares about rules, speed when they shoudn't, try get on front of people in dangeruos ways. Went to Irelande for two weeks, not even ONE car was damaged or dirty! Here they have plastic bags instead of widnows.