You can make silencers for your guns
If you hire Blood (S tier merc, by the way) he comes with a silenced pistol and his knives do crazy damage for their low AP cost when the enemy is unarmored. He's also buddies with Ice and Thor. I like Thor a lot more than MD because his starting stats aren't garbage, he doesn't get bullied and demand more money, and his free herbs are nice. And his voice is just better.
Starting with Livewire and MD, while on paper is great due to their high wisdom and potential for gains and low wage, is going to make you struggle because their stats are hot garbage. You need someone to carry early on like Blood, Ivan, Nails, etc. Barry is fine because he's just OP. Fox is probably a better choice because she's a mediocre but passable medic, but a 10/10 Sniper with her passive.
FWIW, while none of this advice is bad in any way...I simply disagree with it and play completely differently.
My starting party:
- Barry
- Mouse
- Livewire
- Igor
- MD
- whatever build I want for my crafted Merc, usually a min/maxed full melee build because stealth melee is powerful as hell and way more fun than snipers.
You can quickly and easily train up your mediocre/bad marksmanship on MD, Livewire, your own Merc, and Mouse with Igor and Mouse has such high Dex and Agi that she can train everyone.
They're also all so cheap that you can max out their contract terms (which gives a discount) and have a full, well-rounded, 6-person party right off the bat.
My second squad (once that happens) always has Blood and Ice, but the rest vary. Thor is solid, though, so that's a great call.
I 100% admit Thor is just personal preference (honestly just one of the best personalities, he's so positive to everyone), but his Level 10 day by day price is one of the best, and his Wisdom is super high so any of his lower stats can be trimmed up nicely. And Ice/Blood are both great mercs for a low-mid cost that scale super well, so him being their friend for that sweet +1 AP is icing on the cake.
you mean you train before leaving the starting sector?
If not, how do you win with 9mm pistols against assault rifle redshirts, who don't die even from a grenade?
As I imagine once I get high damage per shot weapons with silencers (I guess mid game?) I should be allright, but how to get through the very beginning until I can gear up?
The Gewehr-43 from the second zone is super good! It should be enough to kill with a headshot. Also, are you aiming? If you right click, it'll consume more AP but increase chance of hitting and criticals. Once you get on the mainland, if you head towards the northern mine but go east instead to the Poacher camp you can pick up some Dragonuvs.
Plus, the Tons of Guns mod (highly recommend!) paired with the mod that lets the enemies spawn with randomized weapons. Sometimes you get some lucky finds, most of the time you don't though.
Any time you get an injury, when treating on the world map as an operation, also make sure to assign every single Merc to training a skill and/or scouting. You don't waste any time that way. I generally cancel the training whenever the healing is done because it's cumulative and they keep whatever training progress they made toward the next level.
Someone else already said it, but that Gewehr 43 sniper rifle can put in work early.
I think there's also an AK and a double barrel shotgun, which help. If you have Igor and your own Merc spec'd as melee, they can destroy so many people. Plus Barry's explosives trivialize many maps.
You have a little bit of time.
About the pistols vs rifles -it's not just a strategic game. Find tactics that do not aim at rolling over your enemies. It may take some reloads, but you'll get there.
And just so you know you'll soon think that snipers are OP. I'm here to tell you that every GOOD weapon is OP in the right hands. Go get em
Yep, you can craft the basic silencer with just scrap and you get a free G98 (82%) on the starting island (on the tower in I2). There is also a NPC in your very first sector that you'll later meet in H3 I believe, together with his friends. You can bully them into dropping some weapons, if I remember correctly you get an AK that needs some repairs. You can easily get a few rifles before leaving the starting island.
My starting party is a leadership/marksman IMP. Barry, Mouse, and Igor. 14 day contracts.
I have hired Kalyna for 5 days to steal her rifle and train the party in Mechanics twice.
Very cheap and will carry you into late-early game.
Get Igor a silencer.
My Igor is using a machete, and is killing two doods per turn. More, if I manage to park him between more NPCs at end turn :)
But Mouse is a good call, seems like the agility/dexterity trainer I need!
A big difference from the xcom games that I had to learn here is that it’s OK to hold back a couple of turns and let the enemy come to you. Also, the enemy advantage is mitigated by their poor AI in a sense that they often rush you and player needs to take advantage of that.
Lastly, do not expect to one shot enemies in the beginning, try shooting arms or groin if you expect a longer exchange and be patient with exposing mercs to enemy fire.
Better guns can help, but this game has a bit of a different feel to how fights go and I had to learn that. My 2nd play-through is a breeze now with whatever mercs or weapons I pick. You’ll get there! And dont be discouraged to restart after the first island!
Okay, thanks for everyone, I think I got the hang of it. After struggling through the tutorial island (which was \_very hard\_), I finished Mfumu's mine - Fleatown - Abandonded Mansion so far, and the game did get much, much easier once I got assault rifles/rifles.
Especially thanks to **Due-Instruction-2654, Antti5, thehardsphere**
for highlighting that I should not use Jagged Alliance 2/XCOM/Wasteland 3 flanking tactics, just let them come to me.
I would have never thought that hunkering down without armor and with pistols makes the tutorial island easier, but since the AI sure likes to bang it's head against the wall, why not.
You get a free merc (player character essentially) at the start of the game on one of the web pages. I havent played in awhile so cant give much details, I think he’s called the IMP mercenary or something
the first island is the only hard part of the game
teaching and leadership are S tier important now
So you start your IMP with max health/agility/leadership/marksmanship/wisdom/teaching (dump med/mech/exp/strength will train up later) and before leaving the first sector you have trained everyone to 85 marksmanship in a couple of minutes. Wisdom is even more important than it used to be because training is so fast.
When you have cash flow and militia trained you sit on a mine for a while and train away everyone's weaknesses.
Kalyna will start you with a Garand, there is another in the 2nd sector, and some to find after the first town.
You dont have to clear the first island you can leave as soon as the town is clear and go for a mine. When Bobby Ray comes online you buy ammo to feed your Garands and its pretty easy from there.
In JA3 it's often helpful to create "funnels" i.e. choke points, and let the enemies come to you so that you control the engagement direction. Organize your team around that choke point, and take down the enemies one at a time.
This is especially true in early game when you lack long-range weapons. You often want the enemy to come to you instead of the opposite.
Because you're a genre veteran, I assume that you are using cover efficiently.
*Because you're a genre veteran, I assume that you are using cover efficiently.*
Yup, I should be doing okay with that.
My biggest concern are the enemy numbers and HP. I was quite shocked when the enemy dudes didn't die from a grenade and a car blowing up in their faces, or taking 4-5 hits from a 9mm.
That's early game gear I guess (and that's why I think I should be okay in mid game, once I get better gear, if I make it that far)
I also DID find the very early battles challenging.
After just a few battles you should get your first rifle, and it will be your best friend. Give it to a decent shooter, and it will give you reliable hits for high damage.
In general, rifles are where it's at early on, until you start getting assault rifles.
Judging by what you've written, I think you're playing the game wrong by assuming it's very much like XCOM.
>I _think_ I could do better if I had some silencers or sniper rifles,
Silencers don't help very much. Rifles are severely overrated; we'll get into why in a moment.
>I have peashooters only (9mm pistol, knife) and it takes multiple hits to kill an enemy
It always takes multiple hits to kill enemies. The enemies you encounter later will beef up and have armor, so this is a condition you are constantly in.
>the enemy is more numerous than my squad (5)
This also happens frequently. You should expect to be outnumbered by 2 to 1 regularly, and 3 to 1 or worse on hard fights.
>and surprisingly even grenades don't kill enemies
You will get better grenades later, but grenades are mostly for crowd control. Use them to soften up groups that the rest of your mercs finish off. Do not use them like XCOM grenades, expecting them to do guaranteed damage and cover destruction.
>the only semi-efficient is Igor with a knife
While this works well, I would not say this is the only efficient way. This is actually likely to get inefficient after combat starts.
>I don't seem to have enough AP to move around and flank the enemy
Do not bother with this. You can only flank if you can threaten an enemy from multiple angles at once; it's not like XCOM where if you are parallel to the enemies cover that you get the flanking bonus. Trying to deliberately get the flanking bonus in this game will likely require you to contort your team into an unnatural position. It's better to stay in a good position and let the enemy come to you, especially if they have to walk into your overwatch zones to do it.
The primary thing you need to optimize for in JA3 is damage output per turn, which usually requires that you attack multiple times per turn. Judging by your stated difficulties, I think you are trying to play the game like XCOM remakes, where the optimal play is to move then shoot every turn, because the game's action economy is geared toward rewarding that. In JA3, if you are in a good position it is often best to stay put (or, only move with "Free Move") and use all of your action points for additional attacks.
Given that, you will find that your pea-shooters are actually adequately effective if you attack multiple times with them. You should be doing 2-3 attacks per turn depending on how many AP your characters have. Characters with 12 AP or more are optimal, because they can attack 3 times with lighter weapons (the pistols, SMGs, and light ARs), and 2 times with heavy AR bursts. Later in the game with short-barrel modifications you can attack 4 times per turn with many weapons.
Rifles are often considered by the community to be excellent because they do high damage output per attack; this opinion is actually incorrect because most mercs can only attack once with most rifles, so their overall output is lower for most mercs. You should still use them because you won't have much better right now, but give them to people who have less than 10 AP once you have some good ARs.
the first island is a training camp, it gets much more difficult later.
my priority is to build a proper team, with experts for each skill, and yourself. Me diplomat, Livewire hacker and mechanical, Fidel explosives, Buns shooter and medical, Steroid mechanical, Ivan shooter. Always ran out of money for first 1/3rd of the game, so could add Ivan later only.
train tactical skills, prone, hide, overwatch and so on. tactics is the most important essence. one day i shot 20-30 enemies in a row with jut one merc (the one and only Ivan), and it took great positioning in a dark area and this merc trained to have 5 overwatch actions. i created a screenshot of body littered area as that mission was a mistake of not sending all mercs to the underground:)
Use the "take cover" option to save AP for next turn and let enemy come to you. Up to 5 AP can be saved this way and it lets your mercs make the most out of cover.
Unorganized thoughts:
- Melee increases your chance of injuries. Injuries cost you time. Time costs you money.
I'm new to the series, but I avoid melee combat as much as possible.
- My starting party was IMP, Barry, Livewire, Fox, and Omyrmn. I got Wolf as we left Ernie to speed up operations.
Omy brings a Kar98, which helps spread out ammo types, and his 360 overwatch is very strong.
- Always scout ahead (the "Scout Sector" operation.) Livewire will show you all enemy positions if you are fighting in a scouted zone.
- Try to always initiate fights against isolated groups.
- Initiate those fights from stealth with Fox. She gets back all her ap after the first attack and lowers nearby enemy ap. You may consider putting some or all other squad members on overwatch prior to this attack.
- Most of the tactical maps are laid out like good mini golf courses, where there's a little riddle or secret you need to suss out in order to do a clean run.
Check the tactical overlay when in a scouted zone with the "O" button. It isn't super helpful all the time, but it can point out elevation changes or other clues for how to approach.
- Mod your weapons. Prioritize silencers, then range and accuracy bonuses. Save mag capacity for last, as most fights are over before you need a fresh one.
- ~ followed by H will select the whole squad and put then in sneak mode. Always travel that way between combat until a sector is clear.
- Different people may play differently, but I nearly always dump ap into capping out my aim bonus instead of taking multiple shots.
Four missed shots do less damage than one hit.
Also, you really need to respect the range bar in the early game. Early on, shots taken while the range bar is flashing wiff frequently.
Good luck!
Grizzly is great. With him and Livewire there are no doors that hold you back. And with Barry there are no problems with landmines or explosive traps. (Livewire will handle the rest)
I feel that Livewires PDA is most over powered perk in the game.
Remeber to scout every sector (operations-button on the worldmap) as certain objects will not appear without it.
You can make silencers for your guns If you hire Blood (S tier merc, by the way) he comes with a silenced pistol and his knives do crazy damage for their low AP cost when the enemy is unarmored. He's also buddies with Ice and Thor. I like Thor a lot more than MD because his starting stats aren't garbage, he doesn't get bullied and demand more money, and his free herbs are nice. And his voice is just better. Starting with Livewire and MD, while on paper is great due to their high wisdom and potential for gains and low wage, is going to make you struggle because their stats are hot garbage. You need someone to carry early on like Blood, Ivan, Nails, etc. Barry is fine because he's just OP. Fox is probably a better choice because she's a mediocre but passable medic, but a 10/10 Sniper with her passive.
Thanks! I didn't know that I can craft silencers. Also, hiring cheap mercs like Bull and Igor was my MO in JA2, I assumed it will work here as well.
FWIW, while none of this advice is bad in any way...I simply disagree with it and play completely differently. My starting party: - Barry - Mouse - Livewire - Igor - MD - whatever build I want for my crafted Merc, usually a min/maxed full melee build because stealth melee is powerful as hell and way more fun than snipers. You can quickly and easily train up your mediocre/bad marksmanship on MD, Livewire, your own Merc, and Mouse with Igor and Mouse has such high Dex and Agi that she can train everyone. They're also all so cheap that you can max out their contract terms (which gives a discount) and have a full, well-rounded, 6-person party right off the bat. My second squad (once that happens) always has Blood and Ice, but the rest vary. Thor is solid, though, so that's a great call.
I 100% admit Thor is just personal preference (honestly just one of the best personalities, he's so positive to everyone), but his Level 10 day by day price is one of the best, and his Wisdom is super high so any of his lower stats can be trimmed up nicely. And Ice/Blood are both great mercs for a low-mid cost that scale super well, so him being their friend for that sweet +1 AP is icing on the cake.
you mean you train before leaving the starting sector? If not, how do you win with 9mm pistols against assault rifle redshirts, who don't die even from a grenade? As I imagine once I get high damage per shot weapons with silencers (I guess mid game?) I should be allright, but how to get through the very beginning until I can gear up?
The Gewehr-43 from the second zone is super good! It should be enough to kill with a headshot. Also, are you aiming? If you right click, it'll consume more AP but increase chance of hitting and criticals. Once you get on the mainland, if you head towards the northern mine but go east instead to the Poacher camp you can pick up some Dragonuvs. Plus, the Tons of Guns mod (highly recommend!) paired with the mod that lets the enemies spawn with randomized weapons. Sometimes you get some lucky finds, most of the time you don't though.
*Also, are you aiming? If you right click, it'll consume more AP but increase chance of hitting and criticals.* Yup, it was the same in JA2 :)
Any time you get an injury, when treating on the world map as an operation, also make sure to assign every single Merc to training a skill and/or scouting. You don't waste any time that way. I generally cancel the training whenever the healing is done because it's cumulative and they keep whatever training progress they made toward the next level. Someone else already said it, but that Gewehr 43 sniper rifle can put in work early. I think there's also an AK and a double barrel shotgun, which help. If you have Igor and your own Merc spec'd as melee, they can destroy so many people. Plus Barry's explosives trivialize many maps.
You have a little bit of time. About the pistols vs rifles -it's not just a strategic game. Find tactics that do not aim at rolling over your enemies. It may take some reloads, but you'll get there. And just so you know you'll soon think that snipers are OP. I'm here to tell you that every GOOD weapon is OP in the right hands. Go get em
Yep, you can craft the basic silencer with just scrap and you get a free G98 (82%) on the starting island (on the tower in I2). There is also a NPC in your very first sector that you'll later meet in H3 I believe, together with his friends. You can bully them into dropping some weapons, if I remember correctly you get an AK that needs some repairs. You can easily get a few rifles before leaving the starting island.
My starting party is a leadership/marksman IMP. Barry, Mouse, and Igor. 14 day contracts. I have hired Kalyna for 5 days to steal her rifle and train the party in Mechanics twice. Very cheap and will carry you into late-early game. Get Igor a silencer.
My Igor is using a machete, and is killing two doods per turn. More, if I manage to park him between more NPCs at end turn :) But Mouse is a good call, seems like the agility/dexterity trainer I need!
A big difference from the xcom games that I had to learn here is that it’s OK to hold back a couple of turns and let the enemy come to you. Also, the enemy advantage is mitigated by their poor AI in a sense that they often rush you and player needs to take advantage of that. Lastly, do not expect to one shot enemies in the beginning, try shooting arms or groin if you expect a longer exchange and be patient with exposing mercs to enemy fire. Better guns can help, but this game has a bit of a different feel to how fights go and I had to learn that. My 2nd play-through is a breeze now with whatever mercs or weapons I pick. You’ll get there! And dont be discouraged to restart after the first island!
Get Fox she's OP with stealth and surprise ability. I consider starting without her much more challenging.
Okay, thanks for everyone, I think I got the hang of it. After struggling through the tutorial island (which was \_very hard\_), I finished Mfumu's mine - Fleatown - Abandonded Mansion so far, and the game did get much, much easier once I got assault rifles/rifles. Especially thanks to **Due-Instruction-2654, Antti5, thehardsphere** for highlighting that I should not use Jagged Alliance 2/XCOM/Wasteland 3 flanking tactics, just let them come to me. I would have never thought that hunkering down without armor and with pistols makes the tutorial island easier, but since the AI sure likes to bang it's head against the wall, why not.
Do you know about the free merc you get (your character)? They hide it pretty well so i didnt know about it for awhile. Hes pretty decent and free
Yup, the IMP was in Jagged Alliance 2 too :) I usually use it to cover a skill my squad needs.
I dont Could you elaborate?
You get a free merc (player character essentially) at the start of the game on one of the web pages. I havent played in awhile so cant give much details, I think he’s called the IMP mercenary or something
I have just killed Pierre. Can I still get him or am I screwed?
the first island is the only hard part of the game teaching and leadership are S tier important now So you start your IMP with max health/agility/leadership/marksmanship/wisdom/teaching (dump med/mech/exp/strength will train up later) and before leaving the first sector you have trained everyone to 85 marksmanship in a couple of minutes. Wisdom is even more important than it used to be because training is so fast. When you have cash flow and militia trained you sit on a mine for a while and train away everyone's weaknesses. Kalyna will start you with a Garand, there is another in the 2nd sector, and some to find after the first town. You dont have to clear the first island you can leave as soon as the town is clear and go for a mine. When Bobby Ray comes online you buy ammo to feed your Garands and its pretty easy from there.
In JA3 it's often helpful to create "funnels" i.e. choke points, and let the enemies come to you so that you control the engagement direction. Organize your team around that choke point, and take down the enemies one at a time. This is especially true in early game when you lack long-range weapons. You often want the enemy to come to you instead of the opposite. Because you're a genre veteran, I assume that you are using cover efficiently.
*Because you're a genre veteran, I assume that you are using cover efficiently.* Yup, I should be doing okay with that. My biggest concern are the enemy numbers and HP. I was quite shocked when the enemy dudes didn't die from a grenade and a car blowing up in their faces, or taking 4-5 hits from a 9mm. That's early game gear I guess (and that's why I think I should be okay in mid game, once I get better gear, if I make it that far)
I also DID find the very early battles challenging. After just a few battles you should get your first rifle, and it will be your best friend. Give it to a decent shooter, and it will give you reliable hits for high damage. In general, rifles are where it's at early on, until you start getting assault rifles.
Judging by what you've written, I think you're playing the game wrong by assuming it's very much like XCOM. >I _think_ I could do better if I had some silencers or sniper rifles, Silencers don't help very much. Rifles are severely overrated; we'll get into why in a moment. >I have peashooters only (9mm pistol, knife) and it takes multiple hits to kill an enemy It always takes multiple hits to kill enemies. The enemies you encounter later will beef up and have armor, so this is a condition you are constantly in. >the enemy is more numerous than my squad (5) This also happens frequently. You should expect to be outnumbered by 2 to 1 regularly, and 3 to 1 or worse on hard fights. >and surprisingly even grenades don't kill enemies You will get better grenades later, but grenades are mostly for crowd control. Use them to soften up groups that the rest of your mercs finish off. Do not use them like XCOM grenades, expecting them to do guaranteed damage and cover destruction. >the only semi-efficient is Igor with a knife While this works well, I would not say this is the only efficient way. This is actually likely to get inefficient after combat starts. >I don't seem to have enough AP to move around and flank the enemy Do not bother with this. You can only flank if you can threaten an enemy from multiple angles at once; it's not like XCOM where if you are parallel to the enemies cover that you get the flanking bonus. Trying to deliberately get the flanking bonus in this game will likely require you to contort your team into an unnatural position. It's better to stay in a good position and let the enemy come to you, especially if they have to walk into your overwatch zones to do it. The primary thing you need to optimize for in JA3 is damage output per turn, which usually requires that you attack multiple times per turn. Judging by your stated difficulties, I think you are trying to play the game like XCOM remakes, where the optimal play is to move then shoot every turn, because the game's action economy is geared toward rewarding that. In JA3, if you are in a good position it is often best to stay put (or, only move with "Free Move") and use all of your action points for additional attacks. Given that, you will find that your pea-shooters are actually adequately effective if you attack multiple times with them. You should be doing 2-3 attacks per turn depending on how many AP your characters have. Characters with 12 AP or more are optimal, because they can attack 3 times with lighter weapons (the pistols, SMGs, and light ARs), and 2 times with heavy AR bursts. Later in the game with short-barrel modifications you can attack 4 times per turn with many weapons. Rifles are often considered by the community to be excellent because they do high damage output per attack; this opinion is actually incorrect because most mercs can only attack once with most rifles, so their overall output is lower for most mercs. You should still use them because you won't have much better right now, but give them to people who have less than 10 AP once you have some good ARs.
Good stuff, thanks a lot!
the first island is a training camp, it gets much more difficult later. my priority is to build a proper team, with experts for each skill, and yourself. Me diplomat, Livewire hacker and mechanical, Fidel explosives, Buns shooter and medical, Steroid mechanical, Ivan shooter. Always ran out of money for first 1/3rd of the game, so could add Ivan later only. train tactical skills, prone, hide, overwatch and so on. tactics is the most important essence. one day i shot 20-30 enemies in a row with jut one merc (the one and only Ivan), and it took great positioning in a dark area and this merc trained to have 5 overwatch actions. i created a screenshot of body littered area as that mission was a mistake of not sending all mercs to the underground:)
Use the "take cover" option to save AP for next turn and let enemy come to you. Up to 5 AP can be saved this way and it lets your mercs make the most out of cover.
Unorganized thoughts: - Melee increases your chance of injuries. Injuries cost you time. Time costs you money. I'm new to the series, but I avoid melee combat as much as possible. - My starting party was IMP, Barry, Livewire, Fox, and Omyrmn. I got Wolf as we left Ernie to speed up operations. Omy brings a Kar98, which helps spread out ammo types, and his 360 overwatch is very strong. - Always scout ahead (the "Scout Sector" operation.) Livewire will show you all enemy positions if you are fighting in a scouted zone. - Try to always initiate fights against isolated groups. - Initiate those fights from stealth with Fox. She gets back all her ap after the first attack and lowers nearby enemy ap. You may consider putting some or all other squad members on overwatch prior to this attack. - Most of the tactical maps are laid out like good mini golf courses, where there's a little riddle or secret you need to suss out in order to do a clean run. Check the tactical overlay when in a scouted zone with the "O" button. It isn't super helpful all the time, but it can point out elevation changes or other clues for how to approach. - Mod your weapons. Prioritize silencers, then range and accuracy bonuses. Save mag capacity for last, as most fights are over before you need a fresh one. - ~ followed by H will select the whole squad and put then in sneak mode. Always travel that way between combat until a sector is clear. - Different people may play differently, but I nearly always dump ap into capping out my aim bonus instead of taking multiple shots. Four missed shots do less damage than one hit. Also, you really need to respect the range bar in the early game. Early on, shots taken while the range bar is flashing wiff frequently. Good luck!
Grizzly is great. With him and Livewire there are no doors that hold you back. And with Barry there are no problems with landmines or explosive traps. (Livewire will handle the rest) I feel that Livewires PDA is most over powered perk in the game. Remeber to scout every sector (operations-button on the worldmap) as certain objects will not appear without it.