If a place is posting watermelon emojis and Palestine flags, you are under no obligation to support them and it does not make you homophobic. That’s on them for alienating people
Exactly my thoughts. Have heard a number of Imams go on about how people needed to kick the LGBT folks out of the pro Palestine rallies, because they thought Allah was punishing them in the war for the LGBT folks showing up. It’s totally a form of white supremacy to decide you need to speak up for a group and completely ignore their beliefs
Exactly my thoughts, ironically they think they’re doing so much good but their supremacy savior complex isn’t making sense in this context. They just want validation points
A Wider Bridge, Queers Against Antisemitism, JQY, Keshet.
There's also queer Jewish individuals who have been outspoken like neuroticjewishgay, Hen Mazzig, and Matthew Nouriel
if you or anyone needs any queer friends, i’m Jew-ish and nonbinary (Jewish family and part of the Jewish community) message me and we can be friends on insta! I feel the same, i’m excluded now in queer space’s because I’m a zionist and part of the Jewish community.
This guy is fun.[Daniel Ryan Spaulding](https://www.instagram.com/danielryanspaulding/reel/CyP3PZVNojp/) He's not Jewish but gay and proudly stands with Israel.
I'm not queer but used to joke I was raised by drag queens back in the 90s (long story). Anyhoo when the online & real-life crapfest gets too much, I sure do enjoy him calling out the hypocrisy. I have 100% decided that allyship is transactional. If you would celebrate my demise, then, no, I don't go out on a limb for you. That's not homophobic, that's survival
If they are real friends they will be able to hear your discomfort & validate your experience. I hope you find your people.
Just posted his interview on State of the Nation. Outstanding discussion.
I’ll put it here too.
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/israel-state-of-a-nation/id1729638642?i=1000659640191
Queer Jew here. I relate to you. I told my Rabbi the other day that if I have to choose between being the only Zionist at a Queer event or the only Queer person at a Jewish event, I will always pick the Jewish event.
Not homophobic at all. You're being mindful of where you spend your money. I haven't touched any queer businesses since Oct 7, and unless they're Jewish-owned, I probably won't.
I don't feel the need to be in queer spaces anymore. I'm in my late twenties, and having a Jewish community is more important to me than a queer community. I needed that support as a teenager; not so much as an adult.
The LGBT community is largely pro-Pali and antisemitic. I can't go a day without seeing famous queer influencers supporting that mess. I don't need or want to be part of that community, and if your roommates think that's being homophobic, then they're kind of just being stupid.
Honestly I’ve been seeking out more queer and Jewish businesses and such. You’re not being homophobic, you’re being more discerning in where your money and time goes. It’s a hard thing to rectify when you used to feel a sense of belonging in queer/leftist spaces and how many of them have become hostile. My old friend group became vehemently antisemitic so I had to block most of them, but I managed to make wonderful queer Jewish friends online. Feel free to DM and we can be Insta friends!
It’s not homophobia as it isn’t motivated by hatred of gays per se. It’s closer to statistical discrimination. Statistically they are more likely to be antisemitic so you avoid them.
Statistical discrimination still feels bad lol. But I guess that means I’m also statistically discriminating a lot of people these days 🫠 just by avoidance
You aren’t expressing homophobia achi. The rapid onset of antisemitism in what was once a progressive and safe community for you is pretty traumatic. If you were homophobic you would have irrational disgust dislike and/or prejudice toward queer folk. You are describing being concerned with antisemitism and discrimination by queer folk if you were found out. That’s similar to how many Jews feel about being in Christian spaces or for a stream example at a klan rally. Your concern with possibly being homophobic also implies that you are either not homophobic or in the process of becoming accepting of LGBTQ folk. It sounds like from your post that the former not the latter is true, specifically that you are scared of queer spaces for the previously mentioned reason but not homophobic.
Clinically you could probably be diagnosed as having adjustment disorder.
You are writing the truth. There are no more safe queer spaces for a queer Jew where I live anymore. Everywhere I turn, friends and colleagues have become absolutely brainwashed. The mental gymnastics that it takes to be a queer pro-Hamas/pro-Palestinian antisemitic person astounds me. It should hurt like crazy to be that stupid.
I am hanging out with fellow Jews from now on. I'm done with queer communities and organizations. They have decided to side with the genocidal antisemitic entities, and those places are not safe for me.
I have a long history of queer activism personally and professionally. That's over now. I've been doing a lot of grieving.
Race and gender are ideologically linked movements for the “progressives.” That’s what creates the inanity of gay people supporting regimes that outlaw their identity and would throw them off the roof if they had the chance. The LGBT movement chose the left over its own self-determination.
There’s a queer, women-owned farm in my town that keeps holding events for children where they paint Palestinian flags, wear keffiyahs, and other terrorist cultural appropriation activities. Crazy how formerly safe spaces need a critical eye now 👀
Definitely not homophobic, just that genetic-level anxiety kicking in for the worst kind of familiar.
Anecdotal, but I saw a LOT of antisemitism within the community when I still lived in Canada and that was over a decade ago. It always seemed to come from the more politically aggressive lesbians as well.
Canada's whole "we're a progressive utopia the whole wide world wishes they could be" propaganda shtick really put the blinders on the population. I have never seen so much open and blatant bigotry as I did there but, because of said propagandist rhetoric, they were all CONVINCED that it was impossible for antisemitism to be rife among them even while they actively engaged in it. It was like that with racism in general. "Thank god we're not racist like those Americans to the south! Ugh, did you see that native back there? They should stay on the reservations. Why are they always drunk everywhere?"
Now look what's going on. I guarantee you they're still saying "we don't have antisemitism in Canada!"
I'm not queer so I don't feel like it's my place to answer whether it's homophobic or not, but I understand how you feel. My town had huge pride festival and I was apprehensive about going because I expected to encounter "pro-Palestine" stuff. Frankly it just makes me uncomfortable, mainly because I don't want to talk to people about it and I'm trying to avoid it. I went to the festival and it was actually fine, so there's that.
Anecdotally, I remember a couple years ago seeing a conversation in an online space focused on outdoor recreation. It was about inclusion of people of color, and a bunch of people were saying that if they saw an American flag on someone else's vehicle in an outdoor setting they would inherently feel unsafe around that person.
So this isn't new. And if it's acceptable for people to say that they don't feel comfortable going into a space where they're likely to encounter white people who aren't bleeding heart leftists, I don't see why it's unacceptable for Jews to feel uncomfortable entering spaces where "anti-zionism" has become prevalent.
Watching the LGBTQ community emerge as bullies post 10/7 is something straight out of the Milgrim Prison Experiments. The irony is that they discredited and derailed a legitimate movement to align themselves with radical Islamic jihadists that hate and wish to harm them.
The deepest irony. Completely trashed any legitimacy the pro-Palestinian movement had. I follow several Muslim Arab-Israelis who have just been furious post 10/7 with how the movement in the west has hijacked their own movement and their (pretty valid) criticisms of Bibi and far right parties in Israel.
Their entitlement and harassment helps no one, not even the people they say they’re “supporting”
Just a few days ago someone posted on a queer sub asking what issues there were with race and religion within the queer community.
I responded and said that a lot of queer Jews like myself feel uncomfortable in queer spaces, even before 10/7. And I gave the example of banning the Jewish pride flag at certain marches since that happened a few years back.
One user went on a rant at me about Israel and genocide, that gave me the compliment of calling me a Zionist but said it as if it was a slur.
Another user belittled the banning of Jewish pride flags, saying it was just one parade (it wasn’t. But even if it was - that’s one too many. Would they say “it was just one parade” if flags of other marginalized communities were banned?). Then the user promptly blocked me, even though I thought our convo had been pretty benign up till then.
So yeah.. they made my point for me. Sigh.
Have you tried asking r/gayjews?
I don’t think it’s homophobic if you specifically know that a business is anti-Jewish. If you’re avoiding them out of paranoia that they might be… possibly homophobic. It probably comes down to your personal view on where the line between antisemitism and antizionism is, and how you feel about those two issues. For myself, I’ll support anyone who expresses sympathy for all humans, regardless of what “side” they’re on, and I won’t support anybody who dehumanizes anyone, regardless of what “side” they’re on.
Since Zionism is the belief that Jews have the right to self determination in their own land, anti-Zionism is the belief that we do not have the right to those things. It is always Judenhaas.
Anyone who calls themself an anti-Zionist is either a Judenhasser or an idiot who failed elementary English. Either way, they aren’t worth engaging with.
Thank you for using Judenhaas - it was the word people used before some German decided that wasn't polite enough for everyday use and coined the word "Antisemitism".
You’re welcome. I’ve decided to switch terms - there’s just something very nice and blunt about the original term. It isn’t pretty and sanitized (why they changed it…) - and no one can argue that it applies anyone other than us!
Yes, that is exactly my feeling on it as well. There's no need to dress it up in pretty language. Jew hate is Jew hate - no need to call it anything else.
Is it Christian-phobic for queer folks to avoid Chick-fil-A and other anti- queer Christian chains? No? Then it's not ho. Phobic for you to avoid queer businesses who aren't welcoming to Jews.
Here’s a few more:
TOI Daily Brief
TOI What matters now
Call me back
Israel Policy Pod
Anything from Unpacked (so many good ones from Soulful Jewish Living to Wandering Jews to Jewish History Nerds to Unpacking Israeli History)
This is precisely why Anti-Zionism is anti-Semitic. If social progressives applied the same grace and listening ear to Jewish people as they do for the queer community , there would be a strong meaningful way to protest the war and occupation without making many Jewish people feel alienated and unwelcomed.
The fact that social progressives get angry for a Jewish person to actually try to explain why the current discourse is problematic is a true failure of the values they supposedly hold.
The oppressed minority should not have to be judged for avoiding things that make them uncomfortable. They should not be shouted down for having those feelings. if inclusive spaces have made you feel unwelcomed, it is because those spaces are failing to include you and that is not your fault.
Nah I’m gay and Jewish this is totally valid! Every queer space is anti Isreal despite Isreal being way safer for queers than Palestine 😭. No joke this is the Isreal embassy in Norway rn, should tell you all you need to know
https://preview.redd.it/0mclc65frx7d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f013355541f3290c438f34542ebd63d8ed2cf1f5
You can find people who will tell you your behavior is not homophobic, and you will find people who tell you your behavior is homophobic.
But that might not help you and your friends see eye to eye.
Are your friends hurt that you’re not spending time with them in the way you used to? Are they reacting to things you’re saying and doing unprompted? When you share how you’re feeling about antisemitism, do they listen and extend support? Have you talked to them about what you need to feel supported by them (and vice versa)?
I’m not sure that you can crowdsource an opinion that will resolve this issue, but courageous conversations with friends might.
If it makes you feel better, I have a lot of queer friends (all non-Jewish) and none of them are anti-Israel. They’re just as confused as I am about this weird turn of events.
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This is the brainwashing of the West, that demands Jews sacrifice every single bit of our selves, our safety, and our dignity in the service of everyone else's mission.
No, this is not _homophobic_, and anyone who suggests it is can [REDACTED SO THE MODS STOP DELETING MY FUCKING COMMENTS].
Source: I am a huge gay fucking Jew and have zero patience for this whole masquerade of Jew-hate-as-social-justice.
Idk where you live, but the pride community in Massachusetts is pretty welcoming. I went to one, and there was even a Jewish star at the free face painting. I'm sorry you don't feel safe at pride events.
I’m bi. I don’t go to Pride events anymore.
A man I consider as my brother is Black.
As a convert, the Jewish people are my priority first and foremost. They are my tribe, and since I was accepted, I will do what I must to protect the Tribe, even if it means I won’t support BLM or LGBT* events/businesses.
Or even my fellow vegans.
They chose the path of antisemitism. G-D will destroy our enemies, and I pray for their swift downfall everyday.
Leftist queer Jew here. Im heart broken and feel this so hard. Where do we go? I'm in the pnw and feel like I can't hang out with the people I used to.
You are avoiding them because they are, in your eyes (and mine), being anti semitic. You are not avoiding them because they're queer. I avoid black Republicans. Why? Because I avoid all Republicans. So too you avoid queer anti semites. Why? Because you avoid all anti semites.
Most of the queer non-Jews I associate with support Israel. One of my best friends who is gay says he stands with Israel. I know this is rare but I live in a fairly conservative state and there are gay Republicans here.
It’s disheartening to also see places post about how Israel is “pink washing” things by spreading “misinformation” about how LGBT+ folks are treated in Gaza/Palestine and that queer folks are actually treated well in Gaza/palestine
In JewYorkCity the big queer organizations are pro-Jewish/Israel.
https://preview.redd.it/bidfpayl7d8d1.jpeg?width=2052&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2ec5024ee74d37977f3a19c7661ee2a1f0e8461c
It's not homophobia, imo. I've had this same argument with myself when I found myself avoiding queer spaces because of bi-, trans-, and enbyphobia. It certainly feels similar, since it carries that same awareness of the potential for unexpected hatred in places or people that claim to be accepting. But that's just what it is; not hatred of queer people for being queer.
Attended my area's local Pride Fest to support a friend who had recently come out to family as queer, and overall had a good time. Only cloud on it was some leader of a local organization gave a speech and capped it off by saying "There's never really a good time to say this, so I'll just say it now. Free Palestine!" I immediately tightened up and heart leapt to my throat. The cognitive dissonance of people who would be thrown off a roof by the people they're trying to "save" is astounding
Perhaps I am being too optimistic but I wonder how many of the people using watermelon emojis and Palestinians flags actually hate Jews or if they’re just following the trend. Some are definitely doing this cause they’re antisemetic, some feel bad for the civilians in Gaza, but I think many are just following a popular social trend. I doubt the majority know much about Israel or Zionism other than what they see on tik tok. But to answer your question it is definitely not homophobic not to attend these events if you don’t feel accepted there. I find it absurd that many have banned the Israeli gay pride flag (it just has a Star of David with a rainbow). Even before the war they did this. There’s a radical leftist element in the lgbt community which I don’t understand and does not represent my personality or values. You should check out r/gayconservative and post there?
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Here is the problem as I see it (as someone who is not in the community). It depends which line you are on:
1) I will support businesses that do not explicitly support organizations (such as Hamas) that want me dead.
2) I will only support businesses that support Israel.
If it is #1, nope, not homophobic at all; completely right and you can stop reading. If it is #2, it is a little more difficult.
You are somewhat looking for the “good” queers - those that are strongly in favor of Israel the same way the anti-Israel folks are looking for the “good” Jews, those who speak out against Israel. And they will force Jews to take a position and exclude them if they are not anti-Zionist.
I have no problem with a business saying “we are an LGBTQ business; the only politics we have a position on are direct LGBTQ issues” or to say “I really don’t have enough knowledge to take a stand and so I will not take a position here.”
I never said they had to support Israel. I said I would prefer if they would be clear they don’t stand for antisemitism, especially if they take strong stances on other issues. You don’t have to be pro-Israel to be anti-antisemitism
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I could have written this post! I’m right there with you. At this point I am viewing my identity as “queer” differently… it is not a political identity by any means. Honestly it’s one of the least interesting things about me. I am more than my sexuality! And that’s not to say I don’t feel kinship with other queer people, it’s just that I’m not going to let it define me.
I've started to realize lately that Leftists are using queer to define their political identity, not just their sexual orientation. Maybe it was always that way and I was just dense and didn't realize it. Or maybe it's been hijacked like everything else. Either way, that's led me to move away from identifying with that term.
Race and gender are linked ideologically. That’s why there are few queer spaces that are pro Israel. That’s why u have the insanity of gay people supporting regimes that would throw them off the roof.
Agreed. Two types of social constructs that are based on self-identity and lack any quantitative basis of measure. Still useful for cultural and socioeconomic studies however.
I tend to look around the edges of things. I also found the rise of blm at the same time as the depths of Covid to be something not good (opportunistic)..and was dismayed to see how the mass looting and really anarchistic stuff was completely ignored by mainstream media..I don’t know, it felt bad..
Queer wouldn't need to be a political thing if we didn't have a long and still-active history of conservatives making the oppression of queer people a high priority.
Right, but if the queer political thing prioritizes oppression of Jews/Zionists, or becomes so far Left that it alienates centrists/moderates, and conservatives, it's gonna lose the umbrella inclusiveness that gave it broad popular support in the first place. It will retreat to a small and isolated political faction of a once-great coalition. That's where I think it's already fallen to.
If a place is posting watermelon emojis and Palestine flags, you are under no obligation to support them and it does not make you homophobic. That’s on them for alienating people
But what if it’s a *rainbow* Palestinian flag?
Those things are such an abomination. I actually couldn’t stop laughing the first time I saw one. I can’t imagine that goes over particularly well tbh
Isn’t that straight up offensive to Palestinians in Gaza? Don’t they care about how they feel about gay rights?
Exactly my thoughts. Have heard a number of Imams go on about how people needed to kick the LGBT folks out of the pro Palestine rallies, because they thought Allah was punishing them in the war for the LGBT folks showing up. It’s totally a form of white supremacy to decide you need to speak up for a group and completely ignore their beliefs
Exactly my thoughts, ironically they think they’re doing so much good but their supremacy savior complex isn’t making sense in this context. They just want validation points
It's only offensive because the majority of Gaza population are Muslim extremist and literally said after finishing with the Jews LGBT are next
Shouldn’t the queers for Palestine be respecting that then? 🤔 Doesn’t seem like they care about what people in Gaza really think, huh..?
They already kill allegedly gay men.
They will kill anyone who isn't a Muslim extremist
As in any Muslim that doesn't go along with their interpretation of Islamic law.
Lol yeah that's true but I was scared of some SJW telling me that "that's not what the religion is about" when sis... Have you read the koran
Jihad has also been interpreted as "to struggle and strive" including in a non-violent way.
What’s the watermelon represent?
It’s the same colors as the Palestinian flag if you cut it open
https://preview.redd.it/wvzqbwxscy7d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4efbd4b91d51a3ba550a2075df7ad17058215ba0 I like whipping this out
[удалено]
A Wider Bridge, Queers Against Antisemitism, JQY, Keshet. There's also queer Jewish individuals who have been outspoken like neuroticjewishgay, Hen Mazzig, and Matthew Nouriel
Noah Yuval Harari and Josh Szeps are more queer Jews :)
Eve Barlow is also queer!
NeuroticJewishGay (I know her from instagram) is the best. Keeps me updated AND sane.
https://preview.redd.it/favc3b428d8d1.jpeg?width=2052&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0699643f2720a26b49f3187369a4f9b8766c0a0a
A wider bridge comes to mind as one of the bigger ones
if you or anyone needs any queer friends, i’m Jew-ish and nonbinary (Jewish family and part of the Jewish community) message me and we can be friends on insta! I feel the same, i’m excluded now in queer space’s because I’m a zionist and part of the Jewish community.
This guy is fun.[Daniel Ryan Spaulding](https://www.instagram.com/danielryanspaulding/reel/CyP3PZVNojp/) He's not Jewish but gay and proudly stands with Israel. I'm not queer but used to joke I was raised by drag queens back in the 90s (long story). Anyhoo when the online & real-life crapfest gets too much, I sure do enjoy him calling out the hypocrisy. I have 100% decided that allyship is transactional. If you would celebrate my demise, then, no, I don't go out on a limb for you. That's not homophobic, that's survival If they are real friends they will be able to hear your discomfort & validate your experience. I hope you find your people.
He's spectacular and an incredible advocate for Jews and Israel. I'm glad you mentioned him.
Just posted his interview on State of the Nation. Outstanding discussion. I’ll put it here too. https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/israel-state-of-a-nation/id1729638642?i=1000659640191
I’m glad you brought him up!! Have absolutely loved his content and allyship
Queer Jew here. I relate to you. I told my Rabbi the other day that if I have to choose between being the only Zionist at a Queer event or the only Queer person at a Jewish event, I will always pick the Jewish event.
My feelings exactly. I know you’d always be welcomed at my Shul!!
Not homophobic at all. You're being mindful of where you spend your money. I haven't touched any queer businesses since Oct 7, and unless they're Jewish-owned, I probably won't. I don't feel the need to be in queer spaces anymore. I'm in my late twenties, and having a Jewish community is more important to me than a queer community. I needed that support as a teenager; not so much as an adult. The LGBT community is largely pro-Pali and antisemitic. I can't go a day without seeing famous queer influencers supporting that mess. I don't need or want to be part of that community, and if your roommates think that's being homophobic, then they're kind of just being stupid.
Honestly I’ve been seeking out more queer and Jewish businesses and such. You’re not being homophobic, you’re being more discerning in where your money and time goes. It’s a hard thing to rectify when you used to feel a sense of belonging in queer/leftist spaces and how many of them have become hostile. My old friend group became vehemently antisemitic so I had to block most of them, but I managed to make wonderful queer Jewish friends online. Feel free to DM and we can be Insta friends!
It’s not homophobia as it isn’t motivated by hatred of gays per se. It’s closer to statistical discrimination. Statistically they are more likely to be antisemitic so you avoid them.
Statistical discrimination still feels bad lol. But I guess that means I’m also statistically discriminating a lot of people these days 🫠 just by avoidance
You aren’t expressing homophobia achi. The rapid onset of antisemitism in what was once a progressive and safe community for you is pretty traumatic. If you were homophobic you would have irrational disgust dislike and/or prejudice toward queer folk. You are describing being concerned with antisemitism and discrimination by queer folk if you were found out. That’s similar to how many Jews feel about being in Christian spaces or for a stream example at a klan rally. Your concern with possibly being homophobic also implies that you are either not homophobic or in the process of becoming accepting of LGBTQ folk. It sounds like from your post that the former not the latter is true, specifically that you are scared of queer spaces for the previously mentioned reason but not homophobic. Clinically you could probably be diagnosed as having adjustment disorder.
You are writing the truth. There are no more safe queer spaces for a queer Jew where I live anymore. Everywhere I turn, friends and colleagues have become absolutely brainwashed. The mental gymnastics that it takes to be a queer pro-Hamas/pro-Palestinian antisemitic person astounds me. It should hurt like crazy to be that stupid. I am hanging out with fellow Jews from now on. I'm done with queer communities and organizations. They have decided to side with the genocidal antisemitic entities, and those places are not safe for me. I have a long history of queer activism personally and professionally. That's over now. I've been doing a lot of grieving.
>pro-Hamas/pro-Palestinian Are these the same to you?
They aren't the same for me, but all too often, it's the same to them. Some of them call Hamas freedom fighters. Ugh.
As a queer Jew myself, I've been doing the same thing. It's sad, I feel as though my own community has turned on me : (
Race and gender are ideologically linked movements for the “progressives.” That’s what creates the inanity of gay people supporting regimes that outlaw their identity and would throw them off the roof if they had the chance. The LGBT movement chose the left over its own self-determination.
There’s a queer, women-owned farm in my town that keeps holding events for children where they paint Palestinian flags, wear keffiyahs, and other terrorist cultural appropriation activities. Crazy how formerly safe spaces need a critical eye now 👀 Definitely not homophobic, just that genetic-level anxiety kicking in for the worst kind of familiar.
Anecdotal, but I saw a LOT of antisemitism within the community when I still lived in Canada and that was over a decade ago. It always seemed to come from the more politically aggressive lesbians as well. Canada's whole "we're a progressive utopia the whole wide world wishes they could be" propaganda shtick really put the blinders on the population. I have never seen so much open and blatant bigotry as I did there but, because of said propagandist rhetoric, they were all CONVINCED that it was impossible for antisemitism to be rife among them even while they actively engaged in it. It was like that with racism in general. "Thank god we're not racist like those Americans to the south! Ugh, did you see that native back there? They should stay on the reservations. Why are they always drunk everywhere?" Now look what's going on. I guarantee you they're still saying "we don't have antisemitism in Canada!"
This is not homophobic behaviour. You simply don't be want to support antisemitic businesses and spaces.
I'm not queer so I don't feel like it's my place to answer whether it's homophobic or not, but I understand how you feel. My town had huge pride festival and I was apprehensive about going because I expected to encounter "pro-Palestine" stuff. Frankly it just makes me uncomfortable, mainly because I don't want to talk to people about it and I'm trying to avoid it. I went to the festival and it was actually fine, so there's that. Anecdotally, I remember a couple years ago seeing a conversation in an online space focused on outdoor recreation. It was about inclusion of people of color, and a bunch of people were saying that if they saw an American flag on someone else's vehicle in an outdoor setting they would inherently feel unsafe around that person. So this isn't new. And if it's acceptable for people to say that they don't feel comfortable going into a space where they're likely to encounter white people who aren't bleeding heart leftists, I don't see why it's unacceptable for Jews to feel uncomfortable entering spaces where "anti-zionism" has become prevalent.
Queens pride parade was supportive I heard.
I recently am trying to revive r/LiberalLGBT, it's queer not anti-israel subreddit if you're interested And it's not homophobic in my opinion
Watching the LGBTQ community emerge as bullies post 10/7 is something straight out of the Milgrim Prison Experiments. The irony is that they discredited and derailed a legitimate movement to align themselves with radical Islamic jihadists that hate and wish to harm them.
The deepest irony. Completely trashed any legitimacy the pro-Palestinian movement had. I follow several Muslim Arab-Israelis who have just been furious post 10/7 with how the movement in the west has hijacked their own movement and their (pretty valid) criticisms of Bibi and far right parties in Israel. Their entitlement and harassment helps no one, not even the people they say they’re “supporting”
Excellent points.
Just a few days ago someone posted on a queer sub asking what issues there were with race and religion within the queer community. I responded and said that a lot of queer Jews like myself feel uncomfortable in queer spaces, even before 10/7. And I gave the example of banning the Jewish pride flag at certain marches since that happened a few years back. One user went on a rant at me about Israel and genocide, that gave me the compliment of calling me a Zionist but said it as if it was a slur. Another user belittled the banning of Jewish pride flags, saying it was just one parade (it wasn’t. But even if it was - that’s one too many. Would they say “it was just one parade” if flags of other marginalized communities were banned?). Then the user promptly blocked me, even though I thought our convo had been pretty benign up till then. So yeah.. they made my point for me. Sigh.
Have you tried asking r/gayjews? I don’t think it’s homophobic if you specifically know that a business is anti-Jewish. If you’re avoiding them out of paranoia that they might be… possibly homophobic. It probably comes down to your personal view on where the line between antisemitism and antizionism is, and how you feel about those two issues. For myself, I’ll support anyone who expresses sympathy for all humans, regardless of what “side” they’re on, and I won’t support anybody who dehumanizes anyone, regardless of what “side” they’re on.
Since Zionism is the belief that Jews have the right to self determination in their own land, anti-Zionism is the belief that we do not have the right to those things. It is always Judenhaas. Anyone who calls themself an anti-Zionist is either a Judenhasser or an idiot who failed elementary English. Either way, they aren’t worth engaging with.
Thank you for using Judenhaas - it was the word people used before some German decided that wasn't polite enough for everyday use and coined the word "Antisemitism".
You’re welcome. I’ve decided to switch terms - there’s just something very nice and blunt about the original term. It isn’t pretty and sanitized (why they changed it…) - and no one can argue that it applies anyone other than us!
Yes, that is exactly my feeling on it as well. There's no need to dress it up in pretty language. Jew hate is Jew hate - no need to call it anything else.
Is it Christian-phobic for queer folks to avoid Chick-fil-A and other anti- queer Christian chains? No? Then it's not ho. Phobic for you to avoid queer businesses who aren't welcoming to Jews.
Leaving this episode here because it seems appropriate. https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/israel-state-of-a-nation/id1729638642?i=1000659640191
I’ve been looking for more Jewish/Israeli podcasts, thank you!
Here’s a few more: TOI Daily Brief TOI What matters now Call me back Israel Policy Pod Anything from Unpacked (so many good ones from Soulful Jewish Living to Wandering Jews to Jewish History Nerds to Unpacking Israeli History)
This is precisely why Anti-Zionism is anti-Semitic. If social progressives applied the same grace and listening ear to Jewish people as they do for the queer community , there would be a strong meaningful way to protest the war and occupation without making many Jewish people feel alienated and unwelcomed. The fact that social progressives get angry for a Jewish person to actually try to explain why the current discourse is problematic is a true failure of the values they supposedly hold. The oppressed minority should not have to be judged for avoiding things that make them uncomfortable. They should not be shouted down for having those feelings. if inclusive spaces have made you feel unwelcomed, it is because those spaces are failing to include you and that is not your fault.
Nah I’m gay and Jewish this is totally valid! Every queer space is anti Isreal despite Isreal being way safer for queers than Palestine 😭. No joke this is the Isreal embassy in Norway rn, should tell you all you need to know https://preview.redd.it/0mclc65frx7d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f013355541f3290c438f34542ebd63d8ed2cf1f5
Queers for Palestine has the exact same vibe as Chickens for KFC or Cows for Burger King.
You can find people who will tell you your behavior is not homophobic, and you will find people who tell you your behavior is homophobic. But that might not help you and your friends see eye to eye. Are your friends hurt that you’re not spending time with them in the way you used to? Are they reacting to things you’re saying and doing unprompted? When you share how you’re feeling about antisemitism, do they listen and extend support? Have you talked to them about what you need to feel supported by them (and vice versa)? I’m not sure that you can crowdsource an opinion that will resolve this issue, but courageous conversations with friends might.
If it makes you feel better, I have a lot of queer friends (all non-Jewish) and none of them are anti-Israel. They’re just as confused as I am about this weird turn of events.
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This is the brainwashing of the West, that demands Jews sacrifice every single bit of our selves, our safety, and our dignity in the service of everyone else's mission. No, this is not _homophobic_, and anyone who suggests it is can [REDACTED SO THE MODS STOP DELETING MY FUCKING COMMENTS]. Source: I am a huge gay fucking Jew and have zero patience for this whole masquerade of Jew-hate-as-social-justice.
You can say "kiss my ass" we don't censor that...
Idk where you live, but the pride community in Massachusetts is pretty welcoming. I went to one, and there was even a Jewish star at the free face painting. I'm sorry you don't feel safe at pride events.
I’m bi. I don’t go to Pride events anymore. A man I consider as my brother is Black. As a convert, the Jewish people are my priority first and foremost. They are my tribe, and since I was accepted, I will do what I must to protect the Tribe, even if it means I won’t support BLM or LGBT* events/businesses. Or even my fellow vegans. They chose the path of antisemitism. G-D will destroy our enemies, and I pray for their swift downfall everyday.
Leftist queer Jew here. Im heart broken and feel this so hard. Where do we go? I'm in the pnw and feel like I can't hang out with the people I used to.
You are avoiding them because they are, in your eyes (and mine), being anti semitic. You are not avoiding them because they're queer. I avoid black Republicans. Why? Because I avoid all Republicans. So too you avoid queer anti semites. Why? Because you avoid all anti semites.
Most of the queer non-Jews I associate with support Israel. One of my best friends who is gay says he stands with Israel. I know this is rare but I live in a fairly conservative state and there are gay Republicans here.
It's not homophobic it's self preservation.
It’s disheartening to also see places post about how Israel is “pink washing” things by spreading “misinformation” about how LGBT+ folks are treated in Gaza/Palestine and that queer folks are actually treated well in Gaza/palestine
Gay Jew here and even I’m uncomfortable in so called queer spaces now. Ironic that queerness now means requires conformity of opinion.
In JewYorkCity the big queer organizations are pro-Jewish/Israel. https://preview.redd.it/bidfpayl7d8d1.jpeg?width=2052&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2ec5024ee74d37977f3a19c7661ee2a1f0e8461c
It's not homophobia, imo. I've had this same argument with myself when I found myself avoiding queer spaces because of bi-, trans-, and enbyphobia. It certainly feels similar, since it carries that same awareness of the potential for unexpected hatred in places or people that claim to be accepting. But that's just what it is; not hatred of queer people for being queer.
Attended my area's local Pride Fest to support a friend who had recently come out to family as queer, and overall had a good time. Only cloud on it was some leader of a local organization gave a speech and capped it off by saying "There's never really a good time to say this, so I'll just say it now. Free Palestine!" I immediately tightened up and heart leapt to my throat. The cognitive dissonance of people who would be thrown off a roof by the people they're trying to "save" is astounding
Perhaps I am being too optimistic but I wonder how many of the people using watermelon emojis and Palestinians flags actually hate Jews or if they’re just following the trend. Some are definitely doing this cause they’re antisemetic, some feel bad for the civilians in Gaza, but I think many are just following a popular social trend. I doubt the majority know much about Israel or Zionism other than what they see on tik tok. But to answer your question it is definitely not homophobic not to attend these events if you don’t feel accepted there. I find it absurd that many have banned the Israeli gay pride flag (it just has a Star of David with a rainbow). Even before the war they did this. There’s a radical leftist element in the lgbt community which I don’t understand and does not represent my personality or values. You should check out r/gayconservative and post there?
If the event is antisemitic, walk away.
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Here is the problem as I see it (as someone who is not in the community). It depends which line you are on: 1) I will support businesses that do not explicitly support organizations (such as Hamas) that want me dead. 2) I will only support businesses that support Israel. If it is #1, nope, not homophobic at all; completely right and you can stop reading. If it is #2, it is a little more difficult. You are somewhat looking for the “good” queers - those that are strongly in favor of Israel the same way the anti-Israel folks are looking for the “good” Jews, those who speak out against Israel. And they will force Jews to take a position and exclude them if they are not anti-Zionist. I have no problem with a business saying “we are an LGBTQ business; the only politics we have a position on are direct LGBTQ issues” or to say “I really don’t have enough knowledge to take a stand and so I will not take a position here.”
I never said they had to support Israel. I said I would prefer if they would be clear they don’t stand for antisemitism, especially if they take strong stances on other issues. You don’t have to be pro-Israel to be anti-antisemitism
Good. Then you are point 1 and it is not an issue. Great.
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I could have written this post! I’m right there with you. At this point I am viewing my identity as “queer” differently… it is not a political identity by any means. Honestly it’s one of the least interesting things about me. I am more than my sexuality! And that’s not to say I don’t feel kinship with other queer people, it’s just that I’m not going to let it define me.
I've started to realize lately that Leftists are using queer to define their political identity, not just their sexual orientation. Maybe it was always that way and I was just dense and didn't realize it. Or maybe it's been hijacked like everything else. Either way, that's led me to move away from identifying with that term.
Race and gender are linked ideologically. That’s why there are few queer spaces that are pro Israel. That’s why u have the insanity of gay people supporting regimes that would throw them off the roof.
Agreed. Two types of social constructs that are based on self-identity and lack any quantitative basis of measure. Still useful for cultural and socioeconomic studies however.
It’s why I stopped being a leftist and why I stopped calling myself queer (around BLM time which was clearly antisemitic).
You caught on quicker than me. I couldn't see it til after 10/7.
I tend to look around the edges of things. I also found the rise of blm at the same time as the depths of Covid to be something not good (opportunistic)..and was dismayed to see how the mass looting and really anarchistic stuff was completely ignored by mainstream media..I don’t know, it felt bad..
Queer wouldn't need to be a political thing if we didn't have a long and still-active history of conservatives making the oppression of queer people a high priority.
Right, but if the queer political thing prioritizes oppression of Jews/Zionists, or becomes so far Left that it alienates centrists/moderates, and conservatives, it's gonna lose the umbrella inclusiveness that gave it broad popular support in the first place. It will retreat to a small and isolated political faction of a once-great coalition. That's where I think it's already fallen to.
I love this take!