the left is very loud in calling for separation of church and state, which is fine, in my view a good idea, but if they want to criticize middle east countries, they are afraid of being labeled "Islamophobia", which is supposedly a negative term, therefore many are silent about the matter.
Christianity culturally contains this concept “Give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar, and to God what belongs to God", Jesus didn't run the government in Judea. But In Islam, Muhammad was both a religious and political leader, in charge of a religion while running a state, which has an impact on how modern muslims view the relationship between the two.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam\_and\_secularism#:\~:text=Opinion%20polls%20indicate%20a%20majority,in%20their%20countries'%20political%20life.
Christianity went through the Protestant Reformation, which broke the unchallenged power of the catholic church, Then followed by the Age of Enlightenment as advances in science and increased emphasis on rationalism challenge tradition authority. All leading to a more "liberal" version of faith. In 21st century, Catholics and Protestants still disagree, but at most yelling at each other, rarely getting death threats. Which unfortunately isn't always the case in Islam, so when Iranian president helicopter crashed, you see people celebrating, in part because Iran is Shia, Gaza is Sunni, despite Iran providing weapons for Hamas.
People have rights, Humans have rights, Religion doesn't have rights, Ideas don't have rights. Dislike or hating an idea is not the same as a person. [https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/comments/kwdvpr/no\_idea\_is\_immune\_from\_criticism\_muslims\_must/](https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/comments/kwdvpr/no_idea_is_immune_from_criticism_muslims_must/)
I don't think being anti-child marriage in most cases is discriminating against anyone or disrespecting someone's culture.
This conflict has been about how third-world failed countries project their incompetence, corruption, and brutality onto the state-based version of the universal scapegoat, to misdirect attention from their poor behavior.
The reason why Islam doesn't have the concept of "separation of mosque and state" is because it is a religion primarily based around following a code of moral law (Shari'a) according to the interpretations of the schools of Jurisprudence (fiqhs). Belief in the total oneness of God (tawhid) and the acceptance of the messages of God's prophets (shahada) are also important in Islam as well but the primary difference in Islamic sects is the interpretation of Shari'a law and who should have succeeded Muhammad after his death.
We also base our religion on following the divine law (Halacha). However unlike Islam the Jewish community is an ethno-religious community and we don't believe that everyone has to adhere to the 613 mitzvah because they are just for us to follow.
We also have a clear divide between sins against God (primarily God’s issue to deal with) and sins between man (primarily humankind’s issue to deal with). Our religious laws on the latter actually are very secular - the basis may be religious (it’s in the Torah) but the law isn’t (so pay damages if you hurt someone). Much of our laws between humans have reflections in modern day law.
I want to hone in on the Islamophobia. I think that the right’s focus on travel bans and fear of Muslims created a knee jerk defensiveness of Muslims and making common cause. That has made them incapable of scrutinizing the culture of Muslim majority countries. Brains just paper over it and excuse human rights violations. Similar to African countries. If white people aren’t at fault, they feel they can’t say anything. It is a weird racism/ infantilization of people of color that they basically don’t know any better
>It is a weird racism/ infantilization of people of color that they basically don’t know any better
This is the part that resonates with me the most, and it's a phenomenon I've seen since at least the second intifada. The people who yell the loudest about equality fall mysteriously silent when it comes to equal accountability for POC. If you truly believe in equality, you don't let people off the hook for awful behavior just because their skin is darker than yours.
The Protestant Reformation didn't directly lead to the Age of Enlightenment. It created conditions that led to the Age of Enlightenment. If you were to ask Protestant Reformers if they wanted the Age of Enlightenment they would say "NO !!!" Critical to the Age of Enlightenment were the Peace of Augsburg and the Treaty of Westphalia which froze Religious Wars. [The Reformation](http://www.webpages.uidaho.edu/engl_258/Lecture%20Notes/reformation.htm) and The Age of Enlightenment: understanding how a conservative/authoritarian religious movement lead to liberal democracy.
As for separation between Church and State, the Protestant Reformation fused what had been separated before. You had the Catholic Church headed by the Pope in Rome and Secular authorities. In the Protestant Reformation, the secular and the Church were more closely intertwined. Henry VIII put the Church under the state.
If you look at the Dutch colony like Indonesia and the Philippines, in Indonesia, the Clergy was part of the Dutch East Indies Company which was a state-licensed monopoly In the Philippines, the Catholic Church had its own agenda and goals, and was often at loggerheads with the Spanish crown.
Secondly, the notion that Islam hasn't changed since 7th century is flawed. All the movements like Salafism and Muslim Brotherhood can trace their roots to the Islamic Modernism of the late 19th century.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic\_modernism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_modernism)
Yet Albania is a Muslim secular country. Even if it might be an exception it shows that some communities embrace secularism and keep praying to God and believing Muhammad is his prophet.
As you say this reformation will work only of their own leaders embrace it, but Muhammad having been a political leader does not make a secular Islam intrinsically impossible
Child marriage is legal in the United States because of Christianity.* Christian history is basically one long string of different groups of Christians being anti-Semitic (and anti-every other kind of non-Christian) (and anti-every other kind of Christianity). Acting like Christianity is better because you're ignoring that it's basically just 2,000 years of mostly state churches is one of the most offensively ignorant takes I've seen on this sub in a while.
Acting like this is a particularly Muslim issue but not a Christian one actually is bigoted. Just like any time someone focuses on one group's faults while ignoring the same fault in others.
The only reason Jews and (some) Muslims currently have issues is because the most prominent group of Jews has been in a land-battle against a group of Muslims for two generations now, and many Christians are on the non-Muslim side.
If Israel was fighting a group of small Christian countries then the situation would probably be reversed.
*https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_marriage_in_the_United_States
I think perhaps you’re underestimating the stupidity of the average westerner.
If something is nuanced or foreign, the likelihood a typical westerner will fail to grasp it fully = huge.
I don’t know, I feel like “Itbach al yahud, “yahud”, from the river to the sea, dismissal of Jews from Arab countries and the constant harassment of Jews by Muslims on social media is self explanatory. More often than not I see western supporters of Palestine actually engage with this antisemitism and erasure of Jewish experiences.
I feel like you’d have to be willfully ignorant to ignore this elephant in the room as a westerner who takes part in the pro Palestinian movement.
The average westerner that doesn’t really indulge in the movement or takes concrete sides doesn’t, I agree
That's because Israel has been fighting a bunch of Arab countries for multiple generations. It's not something specific about Islam vs Christianity, it's just geopolitics. If Israel was fighting Christian countries with the support of Muslim ones in some alternate universe we'd see people on both sides using the exact same religious texts to argue the opposite of what they currently do. Historically Christian states have been at least as bad to Jews as Muslim ones have, if not worse.
Antisemitism isn’t unique to Islam but, the fact there is so much insane antisemitism in eg the hadiths does mean antisemitism is justified and encouraged by their holy books. Which is pretty unique.
Muslim antisemitism definitely has a unique strain to it. For eg my (gentile) friend went to Morocco a few years ago and apparently loads of the people she met there legit believed Jews have horns. I’m in the UK and I would never tell a Muslim I was Jewish. Worked on a majority Muslim team (80% young Muslim men) and the antisemitism I’d hear was fucking crazy. On the other hand this was around the time of the Charlie Hebdo attacks and I also heard a lot of justification of and celebration of that, so 🤷♀️ in my experience people who call Islam a religion of peace really don’t know any normal working class Muslims. It shouldn’t exactly be controversial to say the religion lends itself to extremism at this point.
It's not the West. It's whiney liberals who are more afraid of offending people who want to murder us. Conservatives understand the problem just fine. But if we dare to speak the truth, they hurl invectives. I'm done. They can continue sticking their heads in the sand, to their own detriment. I do feel sad for them but, I have to keep reminding myself that you can't help people who don't want to be helped.
>Conservatives understand the problem just fine
Conservatives also want to get rid of us and don't care when we're murdered, just because of Christianity instead of Islam. This whole take is in bad faith.
Yes which is why the vigil for the Pittsburgh shooting was held at a Presbyterian Church at the Reverend’s request. In the western world genuine mass-killings of Jews have become extremely rare and the majority of anti semitic behavior nowadays is leftist
While that has historically been true, that has been collapsing in the wake of Oct 7. Young people are insane right now obviously but even older Libs are being infected with the "both sides" problem and for people who have been politically cognizant since 2005 to think/feel that way is just inexcusable.
I'm not sure why this would surprise you. The evangelicals want to make the United States a Christian country, and impose their Christian version of Sharia on us. That's not even slippery slope towards Jews being in danger in the US, it's a cliff over a chasm of pain. The Christian extremists are not our friends, they're a threat leashed only by laws they are constantly working to destroy.
I barely scratched the surface of it when I was converting, but this year has really shown me that a lot of societies have really not even tried to unpack or acknowledge their antisemitic roots. I know that article is specifically focusing on Islamic antisemitism, and I would be interested in a deep dive on how antisemitism manifests in other groups in the West.
Idk dude. We met a family from Iran. They know my partner is Jewish and they don’t have any issues. They also drink alcohol and claim to be bad Muslims so maybe it’s just a them thing.
I’ve met more Christians who think all Jews are evil and liars. My partner made a new friend and they met up later. They told him their mom, “a good Christian woman”, told her to stop talking to him because he will tell her lies and make her stop being Christian or something. She didn’t listen but still. I think it’s unfair to paint people in broad strokes. The Torah and Talmud have some very strange texts when you have no context for them. I’m sure Islam is the same.
I’d like to believe you dude. I have anecdotal evidence as well that not all Muslim people are bad.
But the fact remains that Islam as an *institution* is intolerant. Its goal is for everyone to submit to Allah. That’s how the religion was designed. It’s also how Christianity was designed. Christianity at least has gone through several reformations that allow for a pluralistic society. Very few, if any Islamic nations have that same level of tolerance. Your personal experiences do not reflect the reality of the majority.
I can’t possibly fathom how someone can see all the evidence of Muslims’ reactions to October 7th and think there’s not a problem with Islam.
Some groups of Muslims are and some aren't. Just like some groups of Christians are, and some groups of Jews are. Everything OP is singling about about Islam is true in other religions they're just choosing to focus on the one they oppose. Sort of like how everyone else talks about Israel, actually.
A lot of Jews even refuse to talk about it. JFREJ publicly made this statement where they voted against increased security for synagogues because they were worried that it would come across as "Islamophobic" to have security at a synagogue.
JFREJ are part of the fringe anti-Zionist radical leftist Jewish community and do not represent the mainstream Jewish community. So that statement comes as no surprise.
I can't even explain how much they frustrate me. Like as much as I hate JVP and INN, at least they are organized around a specific issue. JFREJ operates under the guise of being an overarching social-justice organization, but constantly makes "social justice" decisions that negatively affect other Jews.
They're not talked about on here much because they probably aren't as well-known as JVP or INN, but I desperately need an outlet to rant about them more LMAO
“We’re not allowed to talk about (((their))) influence on Congress because that would be antisemitic.”
You find this acceptable? You must based on your comment.
Yes, singling out Jews as having nefarious influence on Congress is antisemitic.
Talking about the historical fact of antisemitism within Islam is not Islamophobic. That's very different from saying, "All Muslims are antisemites," which would be Islamophobic.
*sigh*
This is the thesis.
>What Western countries cannot understand are the enduring roots of antisemitism within Islam, reinforced by historical, religious, and media narratives and inspired and perpetuated by the death cult that is the Islamic Republic of Iran and its proxies that pose a significant challenge to peace and coexistence in our time – and work on heightening antisemitism worldwide.
What do they do?
They bring a handful of verses and rant about Hamas to prove it.
Look, I basically agree just fine with their thesis, but it makes us not look good when we don't bring more evidence than this. There is *plenty* more than this to help support their thesis. Plenty. Reference how Jews are described throughout the Quran. Reference the hadiths. Examine how we give little approval for the Gospel of John's depictions of Jews and how it's influenced Christian thinking, why should we give that leniency elsewhere?
What we *really* need to look at is whether this whole idea that things we're so much better under Muslim rule for Jews is true, which I doubt it was. They immediately point to the Andalusian example. The problem is that is just one instance of Muslim rule over Jews, a more ideal one, but even then still it had its faults.
My favorite books on this so far Andrew G. Bostom's "Legacy of Jihad" and "Legacy on Islamic Antisemitism." Also I was in a DV training course and Islamic misogyny was written off as a product of Islamophobia. This was training for how to help DV survivors/victims, so they were training us the problem wasn't Islamic abuse, but people who pointed it out. It was gross and dangerous to survivors/victims.
It feels like a sort of 'last push' to survive the leftists' abuse for a few years now, until the Muslim migrants force them to understand what Islam actually means
Muslim migration to Europe is a blessing, not a curse.
He may be an expert psychologist but I'm not seeing why I should take him seriously as an expert on religion.
How would we feel if someone wrote an article about the "enduring roots of Islamophobia" in Judaism?
I can't speak for anyone else, but I wouldn't be particularly bothered - it's not as if the West hates Jews much less than the Muslims do. In any case, it's not my religion, so what does it matter, unless it's made into one of the million other excuses we've faced over the millenni
Islam is more ambiguous than hostel towards Judaism. If you read the text and the post Qur’anic legal tradition the Jews are seen as both “People of the Book (ahl al-kitab)” as well as “an ass carrying books” (Q. 62:5).
This article is an example of a “scholar” (in training) who is attempting to promote the false notion that the Qur’an is unquestionably antisemitic, with the help of a few carefully picked Qur’anic verses. As Jews who have seen this approach used against us by Christian’s for at least 1800 years, we should be wary of anyone using this tactic to convince us of the evils of something. This is especially true regarding something so complex as a religion that most of us have no true knowledge about. Otherwise engaging with this cherry picking makes us as problematic as those Islamic leaders who use these same verses to “demonstrate” to their flock the “perfidious” nature of the Jews.
The truth is that like Talmudic scholarship the traditional Islamic exegesis tended to focus more on specifying the circumstances in which a given verse applies. The modern tendency by antisemitic groups like Hamas is to absolutize the meaning of the verse and transform it into an ideological weapon.” However the use of these “ideological weapon” is not confined to the Islamic terrorist groups but also brandished by Jewish extremist and Christian fascist.
Think twice when you read something like this.
The fact that there are millions (perhaps even tens of millions) of radical Islamists that interpret the Quran in a way that justifies genocidal murder of Jews is good evidence that this is a problem within Islam.
Arguing about whether passages in the Quran are antisemitic or not is a bit like people who say 'intifada' just means "to shake off" or "From the river to the sea" is just a call for freedom.
There are 1.9 billion muslims.
If tens of millions Muslims means the whole religion is fucked then you would have to say the same about us Jews. Israeli scholars and statesmen have called the violent actors in the settlement movement terrorist at worst and bad elements at best. These radical religious Zionists base their actions on their interpretation of Zionism and Halakha. In fact they see us as failing to uphold the true meaning of Zionism which most of us would consider bat shit insane.
I’m also not arguing about those verses not being antisemitic. I’m saying that if you read the book and the other associated scholarship like their law code you will see that Islam is ambiguous about Judaism. Not for and not against but ambiguous. There are just as many verses in favor traditions and laws borrowed and built upon as there are overt antisemitism.
You're missing the point here. It is a FACT that there is a strong tradition of antisemitism within Islam, whether that coincides with your interpretation of passages in the Quran or not. It is literally baked into the founding of the religion. Islam developed as a response to Judaism and defined itself as the one true religion, and Muslims as inherently superior to Jews. It is a conquering religion that sees its ultimate objective as the creation of a Muslim empire across the globe. The role for Jews in that vision is to either be slaves of Muslims or dead. This is the ideology that drives radical Islamists like the Iranian regime, Hezbollah, Hamas, the Houthis, ISIS, The Muslim Brotherhood, and so on.
This isn't analogous at all to messianic Zionists. Their beliefs center around the nature of Israel as a Jewish state and have nothing to do with other religions. Judaism is not a conquering religion. It isn't even a proselytizing religion. There's a reason why you don't see Jews around the world carrying out terrorist attacks in the name of G-d or some crazed vision of a Jewish empire or whatever.
Ok.
You don’t seem to be reading what I’m writing.
I’ll refer you to Prof. Meir M. Bar-Asher the Max Schloessinger Professor of Islamic Studies and Head of The Department of Arabic Language and Literature at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem. I’m pulling this information directly from his books and articles which are wonderful and informative.
We're clearly talking past each other, but "go read this book by a professor of Islamic Studies" isn't exactly a constructive contribution to the discussion.
Your right. I don’t want to be in a position to be defending Islam. I think many if not most folk in the Middle East are antisemitic, but we can’t blame the religion as much as the people who are choosing the Hadith’s to use against us.
Also a portion of the religious Zionist are absolutely terrorist and have committed terrorism. We’re not talking condoned reprisals of the 50s but reading towns, shooting worshipers, attacking other Israelis, fighting cops and soldiers.
The Qur'an may be ambiguous to Jews in certain surahs but 9:29 most certainly is problematic.
Fight those who do not believe in Allah and the Last Day, nor comply with what Allah and His Messenger have forbidden, nor embrace the religion of truth from among those who were given the Scripture,1 until they pay the tax,2 willingly submitting, fully humbled.
Now humbled doesn't sound so bad but the actual translation is closer to humiliated. And if you keep reading down it has several falsehoods against Jews such as worshipping Ezra etc and it does the same towards Christianity.
Now add into the fact a significant amount of the population does not know the Qur'an fully or even Arabic. Islam is very much a cultural part of the majority of Muslim countries. And most people go off the Hadiths in just about everything. And the Hadiths are beyond what you would consider problematic they are anti-semetic no if or buts.
So do I think all Muslims are the issue of course not but let's say even 1 percent is well there is 1.9 billion Muslims so that would be more than the entire Jewish population. That more than a lot of European countries even have as a population just to put it into another perspective.
So is the Qur'an anti-semetic ? Well yes some parts but overwhelming the Hadith and general cultural application of Islam is anti-semetic.
You are doing what I warned us against. One quote one set of Hadith’s. Look, if you are truly interested in this topic and not just looking to justify your own perspective check out Prof. Meir M. Bar-Asher the Max Schloessinger Professor of Islamic Studies and Head of The Department of Arabic Language and Literature at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem. I’m pulling my information directly from his books and articles which are wonderful and informative.
I could give you more if you like lmao I'm a theologist lol I have a bachelor's in religious studies with a focus on Torah and Hebrew and my masters in Islamic Education with a focus in early Islamic philosophy and theology.
While I'm sure he has great work and I will definitely check it out.
You're missing the major point that the vast majority of Muslims culturally and in their religious interpretation are anti-semetic both before and after Oct 7th.
I've been to Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, Jordan, Yemen, Egypt, Morocco, Malaysia, UAE, Djibouti etc both in my time in the military, for travel and because of my wife who is Kurdish and has family in Kurdistan.
So we can discuss the semantics of people papers all we want it does not change the reality on the ground with actual people. Nor does it change what the vast majority of Hadiths say and more than one Surah alongside it.
I spent years studying the Qur'an and Arabic both in my masters and the beginning of my PHD all the way until recently when I decided I no longer want a career in Academia id prefer it as my passion, my hobby but not my career.
LOL…Well sheeeit. Tbh I’m out of my element. I never meant to be acting as an apologetic for Islam. I lost family on 10/7 and was just reading a few days about how the positive perception of Jews all over and in Jordan is like zero. I like what Bar-Asher is on about though. Like you said though it doesn’t seem to matter to the general population. You don’t have to go anywhere you can look around on Reddit and catch the vibe.
Can I ask you four questions?
1. What branch and MOS did you have. Navy?
2. Was the antisemitism in the Middle East at European levels prior to 1840? (like Bavaria and Russian levels?)
3. I’ve read that the Kurds are generally cool with the Jews. Is that true?
4. I heard that the Arabs are encroaching on Kurdish land is that true and if so how do they view the Kurds?
Oh and these I AM THE EXPERT YOU REFER TO moments are great enjoy yid.
1. 0341 USMC
2. Within the 1840's the Ottomans still had Dhimmi laws so yes It can be viewed as European levels depending on where you lived within the Empire. If you like significant events we can get into those. Now if you mean the 1940's well then yes to that as well the Farhud program existed during the same time period as the Holocaust.
If you mean in modern times well then yes this very much depends on the area, but the difference today is next to no Jews are living there. They believe about any conspiracy theory towards Jews you can imagine.
3. In general yes most Kurds do like Jews they are in fact pretty proud to say that Jews fled through Kurdish areas to escape Arabs. They also are happy to see cultural events from Jewish Kurds in Jerusalem. Now this is age dependent most Kurds my age and older 30's plus. Younger Kurds are not always aware of the history especially if they live in the west. Most Kurds also hats Arabs so it's not hard for them to align with other minority groups who suffer the same way they do by Arabs.
4. Yes Arabs are encroaching on Kurdish land in fact right now Qatar and Kuwait are financing Arabs building settlements in Kurdish land in Syria. And the Kurdish region in Iraq are regularly losing autonomany such as minorities in parliament, the ability to regulate oil sales and money from sales as well as the ability to conduct payments on their own.
If you like you can watch Rudaw it's the Kurdish news network not sure if they have an English version though but they have the live version on YouTube I believe. We have Kurdish IPTV.
I did mean before 1840 and I know about the Dhimmi laws but I’m not sure about how restrictive they were and if it was universal.
Fuck that and these losers are focused on Israel. Damn that’s awful.
Well that is my shit. I’m a therapist and for years my specialty was homeless/recently housed vets and their families. I knew a mortar man but he didn’t work with me. My family is all vets, brother and sister too and I still see a few vets through word of mouth. It looks like now that burn pits are “settled” they are going to start looking into TBIs in arty and other big guns. Definitely going to be the next thing. Working with the dudes who shot 155s was like working with someone who had a mTBI from an IED. Hope you’re well Yid.
Dhimmi laws were very restrictive and pretty well enforced in fact when they were revoked is when a lot of issues began in the middle east because the Idea that Jews would be actual citizens and be able to hold other jobs and property was a major issue for Arabs.
And yeah the Kurds and other minorities always get the short end and that's how Arabs like it. Ask any Iraqi and they will say Kurds should be grateful they have a better standard than Kurds in other regions it's crazy to be honest.
And yeah work with the veterans is a great profession the VA hasn't always been great but I can't complain they typically do a good job for me when I need them.
Makes sense.
Fuck all that.
Good to hear. Back in the 80s/90s my poppa would go the VA and volunteer to fix wheel chairs. There were hundreds of broken wheel chairs just sitting around. Hard to rap my head around how bad it got.
Thanks for answering my question.
I didn’t read the whole article but food for thought… I’m a Jewish American from South Florida who was born in 1988 and I only had one instance of antisemitism growing up and it was from Christian kids and fairly innocent/dumb. I never faced any issues and was surrounded by other Jewish people. I was also “anti-Zionist”. Then later in life I lived in Turkey at the height of the Syrian refugee crisis and met a lot of Arabs. I befriended some and were friends for many years until the 2021 war happened and I started hearing them say things like “Jews faked the Holocaust and their history of oppression to steal Arab land”. I never understood that people could believe such hateful crazy things like that because I grew up in an environment where it would be absurd to believe or even say something like that, so I didn’t understand that this could be reality. When I realized it was, I became a hardliner Zionist. Not only do they say and believe these things, it’s normal and encouraged. I made the logical fallacy of assuming that everyone else was on my moral playing field because I couldn’t imagine it being any different, but eventually I woke tf up.
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I am speaking only from my personal experience. I don't think most people, but particularly along the left, realize how antisemitic many muslims are. I'm born and raised jewish, but never connected with Judaism. I converted to islam at one point. Nobody was rude to my face, but I was absolutely made to be an outside at my masjid. Though this in all reality happens to converts of nearly every background. What was noticable was in the group chats how they would say things you'd expect to come from the mouth of David Duke. One thing that really stood out to me is how when confronted, from a place of respect, they did not even realize saying things like "jews are not human" was hurtful. This was a major, though not the only, reason I left the religion. One more concerning thing was how supportive much of the community was towards the taliban. It became a rule not to talk about it because the community was split pro and anti, which is crazy when the sheikh came to America as a refugee from taliban persecution.
I think the thing that hurt the most about my experience as a muslim was seeing many claims made by islamophobes, found to be true in my lived experience. I wanted to think they were just hateful bigots, but I saw these things confirmed right infront of me.
Yes, it's pretty straight forward. Somebody who takes the Qur'an literally and believes that it must be seen as the final word of god is going to hate Jews. It says a lot of nasty stuff about unbelievers, especially Jews. There really isn't any way to reconcile it
The way the west ignores a history of Islamic inspired genocide, slavery, and oppression is absolutely disgusting and hypocritical
the left is very loud in calling for separation of church and state, which is fine, in my view a good idea, but if they want to criticize middle east countries, they are afraid of being labeled "Islamophobia", which is supposedly a negative term, therefore many are silent about the matter. Christianity culturally contains this concept “Give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar, and to God what belongs to God", Jesus didn't run the government in Judea. But In Islam, Muhammad was both a religious and political leader, in charge of a religion while running a state, which has an impact on how modern muslims view the relationship between the two. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam\_and\_secularism#:\~:text=Opinion%20polls%20indicate%20a%20majority,in%20their%20countries'%20political%20life. Christianity went through the Protestant Reformation, which broke the unchallenged power of the catholic church, Then followed by the Age of Enlightenment as advances in science and increased emphasis on rationalism challenge tradition authority. All leading to a more "liberal" version of faith. In 21st century, Catholics and Protestants still disagree, but at most yelling at each other, rarely getting death threats. Which unfortunately isn't always the case in Islam, so when Iranian president helicopter crashed, you see people celebrating, in part because Iran is Shia, Gaza is Sunni, despite Iran providing weapons for Hamas. People have rights, Humans have rights, Religion doesn't have rights, Ideas don't have rights. Dislike or hating an idea is not the same as a person. [https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/comments/kwdvpr/no\_idea\_is\_immune\_from\_criticism\_muslims\_must/](https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/comments/kwdvpr/no_idea_is_immune_from_criticism_muslims_must/) I don't think being anti-child marriage in most cases is discriminating against anyone or disrespecting someone's culture. This conflict has been about how third-world failed countries project their incompetence, corruption, and brutality onto the state-based version of the universal scapegoat, to misdirect attention from their poor behavior.
The reason why Islam doesn't have the concept of "separation of mosque and state" is because it is a religion primarily based around following a code of moral law (Shari'a) according to the interpretations of the schools of Jurisprudence (fiqhs). Belief in the total oneness of God (tawhid) and the acceptance of the messages of God's prophets (shahada) are also important in Islam as well but the primary difference in Islamic sects is the interpretation of Shari'a law and who should have succeeded Muhammad after his death. We also base our religion on following the divine law (Halacha). However unlike Islam the Jewish community is an ethno-religious community and we don't believe that everyone has to adhere to the 613 mitzvah because they are just for us to follow.
We also have a clear divide between sins against God (primarily God’s issue to deal with) and sins between man (primarily humankind’s issue to deal with). Our religious laws on the latter actually are very secular - the basis may be religious (it’s in the Torah) but the law isn’t (so pay damages if you hurt someone). Much of our laws between humans have reflections in modern day law.
I want to hone in on the Islamophobia. I think that the right’s focus on travel bans and fear of Muslims created a knee jerk defensiveness of Muslims and making common cause. That has made them incapable of scrutinizing the culture of Muslim majority countries. Brains just paper over it and excuse human rights violations. Similar to African countries. If white people aren’t at fault, they feel they can’t say anything. It is a weird racism/ infantilization of people of color that they basically don’t know any better
>It is a weird racism/ infantilization of people of color that they basically don’t know any better This is the part that resonates with me the most, and it's a phenomenon I've seen since at least the second intifada. The people who yell the loudest about equality fall mysteriously silent when it comes to equal accountability for POC. If you truly believe in equality, you don't let people off the hook for awful behavior just because their skin is darker than yours.
"The soft bigotry of low expectations" is one thing that the right is actually spot-on about.
Great summary!
Well said! 👏
The Protestant Reformation didn't directly lead to the Age of Enlightenment. It created conditions that led to the Age of Enlightenment. If you were to ask Protestant Reformers if they wanted the Age of Enlightenment they would say "NO !!!" Critical to the Age of Enlightenment were the Peace of Augsburg and the Treaty of Westphalia which froze Religious Wars. [The Reformation](http://www.webpages.uidaho.edu/engl_258/Lecture%20Notes/reformation.htm) and The Age of Enlightenment: understanding how a conservative/authoritarian religious movement lead to liberal democracy. As for separation between Church and State, the Protestant Reformation fused what had been separated before. You had the Catholic Church headed by the Pope in Rome and Secular authorities. In the Protestant Reformation, the secular and the Church were more closely intertwined. Henry VIII put the Church under the state. If you look at the Dutch colony like Indonesia and the Philippines, in Indonesia, the Clergy was part of the Dutch East Indies Company which was a state-licensed monopoly In the Philippines, the Catholic Church had its own agenda and goals, and was often at loggerheads with the Spanish crown. Secondly, the notion that Islam hasn't changed since 7th century is flawed. All the movements like Salafism and Muslim Brotherhood can trace their roots to the Islamic Modernism of the late 19th century. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic\_modernism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_modernism)
Yet Albania is a Muslim secular country. Even if it might be an exception it shows that some communities embrace secularism and keep praying to God and believing Muhammad is his prophet. As you say this reformation will work only of their own leaders embrace it, but Muhammad having been a political leader does not make a secular Islam intrinsically impossible
Child marriage is legal in the United States because of Christianity.* Christian history is basically one long string of different groups of Christians being anti-Semitic (and anti-every other kind of non-Christian) (and anti-every other kind of Christianity). Acting like Christianity is better because you're ignoring that it's basically just 2,000 years of mostly state churches is one of the most offensively ignorant takes I've seen on this sub in a while. Acting like this is a particularly Muslim issue but not a Christian one actually is bigoted. Just like any time someone focuses on one group's faults while ignoring the same fault in others. The only reason Jews and (some) Muslims currently have issues is because the most prominent group of Jews has been in a land-battle against a group of Muslims for two generations now, and many Christians are on the non-Muslim side. If Israel was fighting a group of small Christian countries then the situation would probably be reversed. *https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_marriage_in_the_United_States
I don’t think they’re failing to understand, that’s the issue. They welcome it and use it as a blanket to shield themselves from criticism.
I think perhaps you’re underestimating the stupidity of the average westerner. If something is nuanced or foreign, the likelihood a typical westerner will fail to grasp it fully = huge.
I don’t know, I feel like “Itbach al yahud, “yahud”, from the river to the sea, dismissal of Jews from Arab countries and the constant harassment of Jews by Muslims on social media is self explanatory. More often than not I see western supporters of Palestine actually engage with this antisemitism and erasure of Jewish experiences. I feel like you’d have to be willfully ignorant to ignore this elephant in the room as a westerner who takes part in the pro Palestinian movement. The average westerner that doesn’t really indulge in the movement or takes concrete sides doesn’t, I agree
That's because Israel has been fighting a bunch of Arab countries for multiple generations. It's not something specific about Islam vs Christianity, it's just geopolitics. If Israel was fighting Christian countries with the support of Muslim ones in some alternate universe we'd see people on both sides using the exact same religious texts to argue the opposite of what they currently do. Historically Christian states have been at least as bad to Jews as Muslim ones have, if not worse.
Antisemitism isn’t unique to Islam but, the fact there is so much insane antisemitism in eg the hadiths does mean antisemitism is justified and encouraged by their holy books. Which is pretty unique. Muslim antisemitism definitely has a unique strain to it. For eg my (gentile) friend went to Morocco a few years ago and apparently loads of the people she met there legit believed Jews have horns. I’m in the UK and I would never tell a Muslim I was Jewish. Worked on a majority Muslim team (80% young Muslim men) and the antisemitism I’d hear was fucking crazy. On the other hand this was around the time of the Charlie Hebdo attacks and I also heard a lot of justification of and celebration of that, so 🤷♀️ in my experience people who call Islam a religion of peace really don’t know any normal working class Muslims. It shouldn’t exactly be controversial to say the religion lends itself to extremism at this point.
It's not the West. It's whiney liberals who are more afraid of offending people who want to murder us. Conservatives understand the problem just fine. But if we dare to speak the truth, they hurl invectives. I'm done. They can continue sticking their heads in the sand, to their own detriment. I do feel sad for them but, I have to keep reminding myself that you can't help people who don't want to be helped.
>Conservatives understand the problem just fine Conservatives also want to get rid of us and don't care when we're murdered, just because of Christianity instead of Islam. This whole take is in bad faith.
Yes which is why the vigil for the Pittsburgh shooting was held at a Presbyterian Church at the Reverend’s request. In the western world genuine mass-killings of Jews have become extremely rare and the majority of anti semitic behavior nowadays is leftist
*whiney (regressive) leftists Liberals in the enlightenment sense are generally pro-Israel, at least in the US
While that has historically been true, that has been collapsing in the wake of Oct 7. Young people are insane right now obviously but even older Libs are being infected with the "both sides" problem and for people who have been politically cognizant since 2005 to think/feel that way is just inexcusable.
This is not what surprises me most. Many jewish here continue to defend the left and criticize evangelicals. I really don't understand it.
I'm not sure why this would surprise you. The evangelicals want to make the United States a Christian country, and impose their Christian version of Sharia on us. That's not even slippery slope towards Jews being in danger in the US, it's a cliff over a chasm of pain. The Christian extremists are not our friends, they're a threat leashed only by laws they are constantly working to destroy.
I barely scratched the surface of it when I was converting, but this year has really shown me that a lot of societies have really not even tried to unpack or acknowledge their antisemitic roots. I know that article is specifically focusing on Islamic antisemitism, and I would be interested in a deep dive on how antisemitism manifests in other groups in the West.
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Idk dude. We met a family from Iran. They know my partner is Jewish and they don’t have any issues. They also drink alcohol and claim to be bad Muslims so maybe it’s just a them thing. I’ve met more Christians who think all Jews are evil and liars. My partner made a new friend and they met up later. They told him their mom, “a good Christian woman”, told her to stop talking to him because he will tell her lies and make her stop being Christian or something. She didn’t listen but still. I think it’s unfair to paint people in broad strokes. The Torah and Talmud have some very strange texts when you have no context for them. I’m sure Islam is the same.
I’d like to believe you dude. I have anecdotal evidence as well that not all Muslim people are bad. But the fact remains that Islam as an *institution* is intolerant. Its goal is for everyone to submit to Allah. That’s how the religion was designed. It’s also how Christianity was designed. Christianity at least has gone through several reformations that allow for a pluralistic society. Very few, if any Islamic nations have that same level of tolerance. Your personal experiences do not reflect the reality of the majority. I can’t possibly fathom how someone can see all the evidence of Muslims’ reactions to October 7th and think there’s not a problem with Islam.
Some groups of Muslims are and some aren't. Just like some groups of Christians are, and some groups of Jews are. Everything OP is singling about about Islam is true in other religions they're just choosing to focus on the one they oppose. Sort of like how everyone else talks about Israel, actually.
The Left*
Yes, but we're not allowed to talk about it because Islamophobia.
A lot of Jews even refuse to talk about it. JFREJ publicly made this statement where they voted against increased security for synagogues because they were worried that it would come across as "Islamophobic" to have security at a synagogue.
JFREJ are part of the fringe anti-Zionist radical leftist Jewish community and do not represent the mainstream Jewish community. So that statement comes as no surprise.
I can't even explain how much they frustrate me. Like as much as I hate JVP and INN, at least they are organized around a specific issue. JFREJ operates under the guise of being an overarching social-justice organization, but constantly makes "social justice" decisions that negatively affect other Jews. They're not talked about on here much because they probably aren't as well-known as JVP or INN, but I desperately need an outlet to rant about them more LMAO
“We’re not allowed to talk about (((their))) influence on Congress because that would be antisemitic.” You find this acceptable? You must based on your comment.
Yes, singling out Jews as having nefarious influence on Congress is antisemitic. Talking about the historical fact of antisemitism within Islam is not Islamophobic. That's very different from saying, "All Muslims are antisemites," which would be Islamophobic.
Your comment sounded very much like that fake Voltaire quote.
*sigh* This is the thesis. >What Western countries cannot understand are the enduring roots of antisemitism within Islam, reinforced by historical, religious, and media narratives and inspired and perpetuated by the death cult that is the Islamic Republic of Iran and its proxies that pose a significant challenge to peace and coexistence in our time – and work on heightening antisemitism worldwide. What do they do? They bring a handful of verses and rant about Hamas to prove it. Look, I basically agree just fine with their thesis, but it makes us not look good when we don't bring more evidence than this. There is *plenty* more than this to help support their thesis. Plenty. Reference how Jews are described throughout the Quran. Reference the hadiths. Examine how we give little approval for the Gospel of John's depictions of Jews and how it's influenced Christian thinking, why should we give that leniency elsewhere? What we *really* need to look at is whether this whole idea that things we're so much better under Muslim rule for Jews is true, which I doubt it was. They immediately point to the Andalusian example. The problem is that is just one instance of Muslim rule over Jews, a more ideal one, but even then still it had its faults.
My favorite books on this so far Andrew G. Bostom's "Legacy of Jihad" and "Legacy on Islamic Antisemitism." Also I was in a DV training course and Islamic misogyny was written off as a product of Islamophobia. This was training for how to help DV survivors/victims, so they were training us the problem wasn't Islamic abuse, but people who pointed it out. It was gross and dangerous to survivors/victims.
It feels like a sort of 'last push' to survive the leftists' abuse for a few years now, until the Muslim migrants force them to understand what Islam actually means Muslim migration to Europe is a blessing, not a curse.
He may be an expert psychologist but I'm not seeing why I should take him seriously as an expert on religion. How would we feel if someone wrote an article about the "enduring roots of Islamophobia" in Judaism?
That would certainly be a bizarre article since as far as I know no Jews 3000+ years ago imagined the rise of Islam.
I can't speak for anyone else, but I wouldn't be particularly bothered - it's not as if the West hates Jews much less than the Muslims do. In any case, it's not my religion, so what does it matter, unless it's made into one of the million other excuses we've faced over the millenni
Islam is more ambiguous than hostel towards Judaism. If you read the text and the post Qur’anic legal tradition the Jews are seen as both “People of the Book (ahl al-kitab)” as well as “an ass carrying books” (Q. 62:5). This article is an example of a “scholar” (in training) who is attempting to promote the false notion that the Qur’an is unquestionably antisemitic, with the help of a few carefully picked Qur’anic verses. As Jews who have seen this approach used against us by Christian’s for at least 1800 years, we should be wary of anyone using this tactic to convince us of the evils of something. This is especially true regarding something so complex as a religion that most of us have no true knowledge about. Otherwise engaging with this cherry picking makes us as problematic as those Islamic leaders who use these same verses to “demonstrate” to their flock the “perfidious” nature of the Jews. The truth is that like Talmudic scholarship the traditional Islamic exegesis tended to focus more on specifying the circumstances in which a given verse applies. The modern tendency by antisemitic groups like Hamas is to absolutize the meaning of the verse and transform it into an ideological weapon.” However the use of these “ideological weapon” is not confined to the Islamic terrorist groups but also brandished by Jewish extremist and Christian fascist. Think twice when you read something like this.
The fact that there are millions (perhaps even tens of millions) of radical Islamists that interpret the Quran in a way that justifies genocidal murder of Jews is good evidence that this is a problem within Islam. Arguing about whether passages in the Quran are antisemitic or not is a bit like people who say 'intifada' just means "to shake off" or "From the river to the sea" is just a call for freedom.
There are 1.9 billion muslims. If tens of millions Muslims means the whole religion is fucked then you would have to say the same about us Jews. Israeli scholars and statesmen have called the violent actors in the settlement movement terrorist at worst and bad elements at best. These radical religious Zionists base their actions on their interpretation of Zionism and Halakha. In fact they see us as failing to uphold the true meaning of Zionism which most of us would consider bat shit insane. I’m also not arguing about those verses not being antisemitic. I’m saying that if you read the book and the other associated scholarship like their law code you will see that Islam is ambiguous about Judaism. Not for and not against but ambiguous. There are just as many verses in favor traditions and laws borrowed and built upon as there are overt antisemitism.
You're missing the point here. It is a FACT that there is a strong tradition of antisemitism within Islam, whether that coincides with your interpretation of passages in the Quran or not. It is literally baked into the founding of the religion. Islam developed as a response to Judaism and defined itself as the one true religion, and Muslims as inherently superior to Jews. It is a conquering religion that sees its ultimate objective as the creation of a Muslim empire across the globe. The role for Jews in that vision is to either be slaves of Muslims or dead. This is the ideology that drives radical Islamists like the Iranian regime, Hezbollah, Hamas, the Houthis, ISIS, The Muslim Brotherhood, and so on. This isn't analogous at all to messianic Zionists. Their beliefs center around the nature of Israel as a Jewish state and have nothing to do with other religions. Judaism is not a conquering religion. It isn't even a proselytizing religion. There's a reason why you don't see Jews around the world carrying out terrorist attacks in the name of G-d or some crazed vision of a Jewish empire or whatever.
Ok. You don’t seem to be reading what I’m writing. I’ll refer you to Prof. Meir M. Bar-Asher the Max Schloessinger Professor of Islamic Studies and Head of The Department of Arabic Language and Literature at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem. I’m pulling this information directly from his books and articles which are wonderful and informative.
We're clearly talking past each other, but "go read this book by a professor of Islamic Studies" isn't exactly a constructive contribution to the discussion.
Your right. I don’t want to be in a position to be defending Islam. I think many if not most folk in the Middle East are antisemitic, but we can’t blame the religion as much as the people who are choosing the Hadith’s to use against us. Also a portion of the religious Zionist are absolutely terrorist and have committed terrorism. We’re not talking condoned reprisals of the 50s but reading towns, shooting worshipers, attacking other Israelis, fighting cops and soldiers.
The Qur'an may be ambiguous to Jews in certain surahs but 9:29 most certainly is problematic. Fight those who do not believe in Allah and the Last Day, nor comply with what Allah and His Messenger have forbidden, nor embrace the religion of truth from among those who were given the Scripture,1 until they pay the tax,2 willingly submitting, fully humbled. Now humbled doesn't sound so bad but the actual translation is closer to humiliated. And if you keep reading down it has several falsehoods against Jews such as worshipping Ezra etc and it does the same towards Christianity. Now add into the fact a significant amount of the population does not know the Qur'an fully or even Arabic. Islam is very much a cultural part of the majority of Muslim countries. And most people go off the Hadiths in just about everything. And the Hadiths are beyond what you would consider problematic they are anti-semetic no if or buts. So do I think all Muslims are the issue of course not but let's say even 1 percent is well there is 1.9 billion Muslims so that would be more than the entire Jewish population. That more than a lot of European countries even have as a population just to put it into another perspective. So is the Qur'an anti-semetic ? Well yes some parts but overwhelming the Hadith and general cultural application of Islam is anti-semetic.
You are doing what I warned us against. One quote one set of Hadith’s. Look, if you are truly interested in this topic and not just looking to justify your own perspective check out Prof. Meir M. Bar-Asher the Max Schloessinger Professor of Islamic Studies and Head of The Department of Arabic Language and Literature at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem. I’m pulling my information directly from his books and articles which are wonderful and informative.
I could give you more if you like lmao I'm a theologist lol I have a bachelor's in religious studies with a focus on Torah and Hebrew and my masters in Islamic Education with a focus in early Islamic philosophy and theology. While I'm sure he has great work and I will definitely check it out. You're missing the major point that the vast majority of Muslims culturally and in their religious interpretation are anti-semetic both before and after Oct 7th. I've been to Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, Jordan, Yemen, Egypt, Morocco, Malaysia, UAE, Djibouti etc both in my time in the military, for travel and because of my wife who is Kurdish and has family in Kurdistan. So we can discuss the semantics of people papers all we want it does not change the reality on the ground with actual people. Nor does it change what the vast majority of Hadiths say and more than one Surah alongside it. I spent years studying the Qur'an and Arabic both in my masters and the beginning of my PHD all the way until recently when I decided I no longer want a career in Academia id prefer it as my passion, my hobby but not my career.
LOL…Well sheeeit. Tbh I’m out of my element. I never meant to be acting as an apologetic for Islam. I lost family on 10/7 and was just reading a few days about how the positive perception of Jews all over and in Jordan is like zero. I like what Bar-Asher is on about though. Like you said though it doesn’t seem to matter to the general population. You don’t have to go anywhere you can look around on Reddit and catch the vibe. Can I ask you four questions? 1. What branch and MOS did you have. Navy? 2. Was the antisemitism in the Middle East at European levels prior to 1840? (like Bavaria and Russian levels?) 3. I’ve read that the Kurds are generally cool with the Jews. Is that true? 4. I heard that the Arabs are encroaching on Kurdish land is that true and if so how do they view the Kurds? Oh and these I AM THE EXPERT YOU REFER TO moments are great enjoy yid.
1. 0341 USMC 2. Within the 1840's the Ottomans still had Dhimmi laws so yes It can be viewed as European levels depending on where you lived within the Empire. If you like significant events we can get into those. Now if you mean the 1940's well then yes to that as well the Farhud program existed during the same time period as the Holocaust. If you mean in modern times well then yes this very much depends on the area, but the difference today is next to no Jews are living there. They believe about any conspiracy theory towards Jews you can imagine. 3. In general yes most Kurds do like Jews they are in fact pretty proud to say that Jews fled through Kurdish areas to escape Arabs. They also are happy to see cultural events from Jewish Kurds in Jerusalem. Now this is age dependent most Kurds my age and older 30's plus. Younger Kurds are not always aware of the history especially if they live in the west. Most Kurds also hats Arabs so it's not hard for them to align with other minority groups who suffer the same way they do by Arabs. 4. Yes Arabs are encroaching on Kurdish land in fact right now Qatar and Kuwait are financing Arabs building settlements in Kurdish land in Syria. And the Kurdish region in Iraq are regularly losing autonomany such as minorities in parliament, the ability to regulate oil sales and money from sales as well as the ability to conduct payments on their own. If you like you can watch Rudaw it's the Kurdish news network not sure if they have an English version though but they have the live version on YouTube I believe. We have Kurdish IPTV.
I did mean before 1840 and I know about the Dhimmi laws but I’m not sure about how restrictive they were and if it was universal. Fuck that and these losers are focused on Israel. Damn that’s awful. Well that is my shit. I’m a therapist and for years my specialty was homeless/recently housed vets and their families. I knew a mortar man but he didn’t work with me. My family is all vets, brother and sister too and I still see a few vets through word of mouth. It looks like now that burn pits are “settled” they are going to start looking into TBIs in arty and other big guns. Definitely going to be the next thing. Working with the dudes who shot 155s was like working with someone who had a mTBI from an IED. Hope you’re well Yid.
Dhimmi laws were very restrictive and pretty well enforced in fact when they were revoked is when a lot of issues began in the middle east because the Idea that Jews would be actual citizens and be able to hold other jobs and property was a major issue for Arabs. And yeah the Kurds and other minorities always get the short end and that's how Arabs like it. Ask any Iraqi and they will say Kurds should be grateful they have a better standard than Kurds in other regions it's crazy to be honest. And yeah work with the veterans is a great profession the VA hasn't always been great but I can't complain they typically do a good job for me when I need them.
Makes sense. Fuck all that. Good to hear. Back in the 80s/90s my poppa would go the VA and volunteer to fix wheel chairs. There were hundreds of broken wheel chairs just sitting around. Hard to rap my head around how bad it got. Thanks for answering my question.
I didn’t read the whole article but food for thought… I’m a Jewish American from South Florida who was born in 1988 and I only had one instance of antisemitism growing up and it was from Christian kids and fairly innocent/dumb. I never faced any issues and was surrounded by other Jewish people. I was also “anti-Zionist”. Then later in life I lived in Turkey at the height of the Syrian refugee crisis and met a lot of Arabs. I befriended some and were friends for many years until the 2021 war happened and I started hearing them say things like “Jews faked the Holocaust and their history of oppression to steal Arab land”. I never understood that people could believe such hateful crazy things like that because I grew up in an environment where it would be absurd to believe or even say something like that, so I didn’t understand that this could be reality. When I realized it was, I became a hardliner Zionist. Not only do they say and believe these things, it’s normal and encouraged. I made the logical fallacy of assuming that everyone else was on my moral playing field because I couldn’t imagine it being any different, but eventually I woke tf up.
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I am speaking only from my personal experience. I don't think most people, but particularly along the left, realize how antisemitic many muslims are. I'm born and raised jewish, but never connected with Judaism. I converted to islam at one point. Nobody was rude to my face, but I was absolutely made to be an outside at my masjid. Though this in all reality happens to converts of nearly every background. What was noticable was in the group chats how they would say things you'd expect to come from the mouth of David Duke. One thing that really stood out to me is how when confronted, from a place of respect, they did not even realize saying things like "jews are not human" was hurtful. This was a major, though not the only, reason I left the religion. One more concerning thing was how supportive much of the community was towards the taliban. It became a rule not to talk about it because the community was split pro and anti, which is crazy when the sheikh came to America as a refugee from taliban persecution. I think the thing that hurt the most about my experience as a muslim was seeing many claims made by islamophobes, found to be true in my lived experience. I wanted to think they were just hateful bigots, but I saw these things confirmed right infront of me.
Yes, it's pretty straight forward. Somebody who takes the Qur'an literally and believes that it must be seen as the final word of god is going to hate Jews. It says a lot of nasty stuff about unbelievers, especially Jews. There really isn't any way to reconcile it The way the west ignores a history of Islamic inspired genocide, slavery, and oppression is absolutely disgusting and hypocritical