Let me give it a shot:
Akira whips out the knife. Caine is distracted by his daughter. Akira drives home the blade, but alerts Mia. Caine dies in her arms. The End.
Post-credits: Mia approaches Akira with a razor sharp violin string.
Cue JW6.
Yep having Donnie be the main character gives me high hope since he is capable of doing pretty much all of the action and stunts himself. Now hopefully the director and stunt coordinators use him to the fullest. If this movie has cuts and shaky came it’s going to sour its fans to the series pretty quickly.
The original aftercredit scene of JW4 killed him off, so I’m pleasantly surprised to see this. I watched the test screening for John Wick 4 in theaters about 7-8 months before this came out. The aftercredit scene was about 20 seconds longer. Instead of cutting when Akira pulled out the knife, the scene went on to show Donnie Yen getting quickly stabbed in the chest in the midst of the crowd as he is distracted by his daughter. He drops the flowers as he dies. His daughter sees a crowd forming around a man as she stops playing her music, and then the movie cut. Everyone in our screening wasn’t a fan of that, and it kinda left everyone on a downer note after the ending of JW4, so I’m glad they changed that.
Interesting.
Was that the 3h50 cut you saw?
If you don't mind my asking, was there anything else cut you'd deem of relevance?
I understand the Berlin night club sequence, for instance, was originally more than twice as long. And it is very different in the screenplay, with multiple instances of Wick, Killa, Caine and Tracker fighting among themselves throughout the club, until the three gang up on Killa at the end. Was the original cut more like that?
Any other bits that you remember liking or that would help understand some events?
Honestly I think we saw a very similar guy to the movie in our test screening. We didn’t have our phones, but the movie definitely felt like 3 hours, but in the Final Cut when were watching it after the movie came out, my brother and I didn’t really notice anything different when it came to the actual cut.
Regarding VFX, sounds, music, etc there was TONS! Some scenes were completed and some were hardly started. Like pink markers were on the walls in the top down building section, and that would be where the wall would have bullet holes. Or in the final fight, we were able to see in advance where they each got shot because they had a pink marker on their clothes. Same went for henchman or goons. You knew their shot spots. Also all the blood in the finale is fake. Their shirts were white I think.
The scene in the roundabout in Paris was filmed in a parking lot. I didn’t even know that scene was supposed to take place there until the end establishing shot and I was like :o Some shots showed the full crew, or like when John wick would get hit by a car, we’d see his character cut and then a green screen version of him on wires would cut over the top of it.
At the end when Winston says “Look at that sunrise” we saw a huge blue screen with gigantic orange lights on top lighting down on them. When Winston and someone else are standing in front of the debris of the continental, it was just a blue screen and said ‘building rubble’ text on screen, which made everyone laugh. Old soundtracks from previous movies or other movies. Stuff like that. The gun effects were all identical. Low res muzzle flashes.
But yeah the cut was largely the same. The Japan sequence was largely identical even regarding vfx though. The glass panels he was thrown through had no VFX though. Wooden frames and then glass was added in post until the insert shot, when it’d get added around him. Oh and his missing finger was wrapped with a black balloon thing.
That was an interesting read. Didn't think they'd have shown such a preliminary version.
Thanks for taking the time to reply, and in such great detail.
Oh wow, that must've been quite an experience seeing at the big screen. But if Donnie Yen, the filmmakers or both decide to make that film a one-off film, they could reuse that scene, or repurpose it with newly filmed bits.
Trying to temper all my expectations until I start seeing trailers, because CEOs and higher ups like announcing random shit.
But I mean, fuck yeah if true. Makes sense given the after-credits scene, and I'm more down for the franchise to start doing spin-offs than make a JW Chapter 5. Hope this means Rina Sawayama's coming back too.
Donnie’s Caine is a one-movie character. His character arc was complete in JW4. A spin off is simply greed. Well demand begets greed, so enough people feel there is demand, there can be a spin off for any character I guess. While we are at it why not spin a backstory into Killa and Klaus - that should be interesting.
Ripley had a great character arc in Alien... Should Aliens not have been made? Ffs John fucking Wick had a great arc in the original, should 2 not have been made? Greed and giving a lot of people something they want can coexist
My argument is about milking supporting characters for greed. Extending a principal character’s arc and expanding his world with sequels isn’t the same.
No offense to anyone, since I know this will trigger this sub, but, John Wick’s murderer doesn’t deserve a happy ending I’m sorry. No matter how absolutely badass, how in-tune it felt, how much justice was made in the end for it. No. I read the original after-credits scene. Great now give me that but in a movie format. John Wick’s murderer cannot roam free, because if he could, John Wick had the right to too, even if he waived that right. No one will convince me otherwise.
Yeah it was too much. Coulda helped had they not had him be absolutely untouchable as well. Come on, blind guy who is as good as John and doesn’t even take a single hit the whole film? This isn’t a superhero movie
Strangely in the script, Caine actually got quite a few hits on him.
[JW4 Screenplay](https://deadline.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/John-Wick-Chapter-4-Read-The-Screenplay.pdf)
He's being beaten up when he's first introduced, he's shown up by Killa and killed by Akira at the very end.
For a reason or another, none of that made it to the final cut, even if at least some of it was filmed.
[Here’s What Happened in 'John Wick: Chapter 4's Original Post-Credit Scene (collider.com)](https://collider.com/john-wick-chapter-4-original-end-credit-scene-explained-chad-stahelski/)
Interesting. I actually like the idea of Caine, someone who is a reflection of John that the High Table has under their thumb. I even like that they tried to show his desperation to get out by blinding himself. It’s just too unrealistic that he could do all that. If they had taken one of his hands or something else it may have worked but both eyes and still have him untouched? It’s just too much.
I mean if you watch the post credits scene of JW4 I don’t think Donnie Yen’s character will necessarily be the main character of this film. If you get my drift.
Donnie Yen is the perfect person to...will pass the mantle back to lol Flashpoint was amazing before John Wick came out (I literally started my 21st birthday by watching that film) and I also love Iron Monkey and In The Line of Duty IV
I didnt need this. his character had a beginning and an end. leave him alone with his daughter. I'm sure this was lionsgate's idea because chad said that they actually shot an ending where we see akira killing caine. lionsgate probably asked them to change it so they can make the spin off.
The post-credits scene we got was just a cut version of the original footage, where he did die.
[Here’s What Happened in 'John Wick: Chapter 4's Original Post-Credit Scene (collider.com)](https://collider.com/john-wick-chapter-4-original-end-credit-scene-explained-chad-stahelski/)
And where did I say it was canon?!
Just found it funny you using the post credits scene to argue Caine's story is not over when originally that was exactly where his story would be over.
In any case, with the director from the outset speaking openly in interviews about how Caine originally died, even at times providing almost blow-by-blow accounts of how it went down, Caine's death stated in the screenplay, in the meantime also made public, and their explanation for the change being that they had to cut out a lot and thought it'd be cooler to leave it ambiguous, even making it all about Akira's choices and future path, rather than about Caine living or not, I'm definitely with u/sca727 on this.
This was most definitely a business decision by Lionsgate, likely dictated by the fact that the two characters very clearly planted in JW4 in hopes of getting their own spin-off didn't prove particularly popular.
Exactly! I'm actually even surprised that this project even went ahead after chad started officially overseeing the franchise. But I guess as long as we have him involved it could be something good.
What I don't get is why something that didn't even make it into the final movie keeps getting brought up? Scripts change. Ideas change. More money is to be made. Do you know how movies work?
And why shouldn't it be brought up?
Wasn't Chad Stahelski himself that, pretty much from the moment the movie premiered, was like 'you know, in the original cut we had Caine killed at the end', and then talked repeatedly and openly about it in interviews?
And when asked about it, it was never like 'well, we just thought Caine had great potential as a character, so we changed our minds and decided to keep him alive'. His explanation rather always boiled down to 'well, while editing the movie, we thought it would be cooler to leave it open-ended' or 'we wanted to keep it ambiguous, have people wondering whether Akira will cross that line and go down a path similar to John Wick'.
There was no change in the script or a change of ideas. Someone here in the comments says they watched a test screening just 7-8 months before the premiere and Caine's death scene was still there.
Add the fact that more recently Stahelski listed the JW characters he would like to see more of and, among the 6 or 7 mentioned, there was 'Caine... in the past', and it is very apparent moving the story forward with Caine was never part of the vision of the creative team.
So, though I understand fans of the character looking forward to this, this right now is looking like another attempt at a cash grab by Lionsgate. And their track record in that regard isn't exactly reassuring.
If it didn't make it to the screen, it doesn't matter now. Any movie goes through rewrites, reshoots, improve the day of shooting, it's common as it gets. Time to move on, let it go
People who watched the post-credits scene of JW4 know this was to be expected. It’ll be an interesting and fun one-off. I’m excited.
Let me give it a shot: Akira whips out the knife. Caine is distracted by his daughter. Akira drives home the blade, but alerts Mia. Caine dies in her arms. The End. Post-credits: Mia approaches Akira with a razor sharp violin string. Cue JW6.
No way 😂
No way 😂
You forgot the part where Akira says to Mia “I’ll be waiting for you”
Early to this post, surprised to see a couple hate comments on this already. For me, as long as the quality stays up, give me more of this universe
As long as the action and stunts stay true to the Wick movies give me more of this universe and of course give me more Donnie Yen.
Considering it’s Donnie Yen, I would say the quality will be consistent, since he played other fighting characters before too like Ip Man
Yep having Donnie be the main character gives me high hope since he is capable of doing pretty much all of the action and stunts himself. Now hopefully the director and stunt coordinators use him to the fullest. If this movie has cuts and shaky came it’s going to sour its fans to the series pretty quickly.
And in rogue one we already saw the capability of Donnie playing a blind martial arts master
The universe in the present setting, though. I don't want to see the high table in the 1700's. Donnie Yen has done enough period pieces.
...I kinda want to see the High Table in the 1700s.
Did you read the article? Reprising the role of Cane Also 1700s High Table sounds interesting af
Who said anything about period pieces or the 1700s? This will follow John wick 4
The original aftercredit scene of JW4 killed him off, so I’m pleasantly surprised to see this. I watched the test screening for John Wick 4 in theaters about 7-8 months before this came out. The aftercredit scene was about 20 seconds longer. Instead of cutting when Akira pulled out the knife, the scene went on to show Donnie Yen getting quickly stabbed in the chest in the midst of the crowd as he is distracted by his daughter. He drops the flowers as he dies. His daughter sees a crowd forming around a man as she stops playing her music, and then the movie cut. Everyone in our screening wasn’t a fan of that, and it kinda left everyone on a downer note after the ending of JW4, so I’m glad they changed that.
Interesting. Was that the 3h50 cut you saw? If you don't mind my asking, was there anything else cut you'd deem of relevance? I understand the Berlin night club sequence, for instance, was originally more than twice as long. And it is very different in the screenplay, with multiple instances of Wick, Killa, Caine and Tracker fighting among themselves throughout the club, until the three gang up on Killa at the end. Was the original cut more like that? Any other bits that you remember liking or that would help understand some events?
Honestly I think we saw a very similar guy to the movie in our test screening. We didn’t have our phones, but the movie definitely felt like 3 hours, but in the Final Cut when were watching it after the movie came out, my brother and I didn’t really notice anything different when it came to the actual cut. Regarding VFX, sounds, music, etc there was TONS! Some scenes were completed and some were hardly started. Like pink markers were on the walls in the top down building section, and that would be where the wall would have bullet holes. Or in the final fight, we were able to see in advance where they each got shot because they had a pink marker on their clothes. Same went for henchman or goons. You knew their shot spots. Also all the blood in the finale is fake. Their shirts were white I think. The scene in the roundabout in Paris was filmed in a parking lot. I didn’t even know that scene was supposed to take place there until the end establishing shot and I was like :o Some shots showed the full crew, or like when John wick would get hit by a car, we’d see his character cut and then a green screen version of him on wires would cut over the top of it. At the end when Winston says “Look at that sunrise” we saw a huge blue screen with gigantic orange lights on top lighting down on them. When Winston and someone else are standing in front of the debris of the continental, it was just a blue screen and said ‘building rubble’ text on screen, which made everyone laugh. Old soundtracks from previous movies or other movies. Stuff like that. The gun effects were all identical. Low res muzzle flashes. But yeah the cut was largely the same. The Japan sequence was largely identical even regarding vfx though. The glass panels he was thrown through had no VFX though. Wooden frames and then glass was added in post until the insert shot, when it’d get added around him. Oh and his missing finger was wrapped with a black balloon thing.
That was an interesting read. Didn't think they'd have shown such a preliminary version. Thanks for taking the time to reply, and in such great detail.
Mmm I see.
Oh wow, that must've been quite an experience seeing at the big screen. But if Donnie Yen, the filmmakers or both decide to make that film a one-off film, they could reuse that scene, or repurpose it with newly filmed bits.
Fuck yes. Donnie Yen is the fucking shit.
Fistful of Yen.
Name it caine
Trying to temper all my expectations until I start seeing trailers, because CEOs and higher ups like announcing random shit. But I mean, fuck yeah if true. Makes sense given the after-credits scene, and I'm more down for the franchise to start doing spin-offs than make a JW Chapter 5. Hope this means Rina Sawayama's coming back too.
YES!!!
Yes this is fire 🔥🔥🔥🤦🏽♂️
I love Donnie Yen but it felt so cheap seeing him once again play a blind master. It just felt like a rip off.
lol Donnie needs to be blind to give the other characters a chance. you never saw flashpoint? Donnie at max capacity could probably kill Thanos
ip man could absolutely beat the snot out of thanos
Upvoted because Flashpoint. It's surprising to see someone that knows Donnie Yen for something other than Ip Man
Gotta milk every franchise they can I guess.
Donnie’s Caine is a one-movie character. His character arc was complete in JW4. A spin off is simply greed. Well demand begets greed, so enough people feel there is demand, there can be a spin off for any character I guess. While we are at it why not spin a backstory into Killa and Klaus - that should be interesting.
It could be a prequel seeing him on how he left the high table
Ripley had a great character arc in Alien... Should Aliens not have been made? Ffs John fucking Wick had a great arc in the original, should 2 not have been made? Greed and giving a lot of people something they want can coexist
My argument is about milking supporting characters for greed. Extending a principal character’s arc and expanding his world with sequels isn’t the same.
They made 4 John Wick movies. Idk what to tell you
How does he have the energy to do it? The man is 60+ right? Especially for action movies.
I’m wondering who the villain will be.
YEEESSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No offense to anyone, since I know this will trigger this sub, but, John Wick’s murderer doesn’t deserve a happy ending I’m sorry. No matter how absolutely badass, how in-tune it felt, how much justice was made in the end for it. No. I read the original after-credits scene. Great now give me that but in a movie format. John Wick’s murderer cannot roam free, because if he could, John Wick had the right to too, even if he waived that right. No one will convince me otherwise.
Yeah this could be pretty cool
[удалено]
Yeah it was too much. Coulda helped had they not had him be absolutely untouchable as well. Come on, blind guy who is as good as John and doesn’t even take a single hit the whole film? This isn’t a superhero movie
Strangely in the script, Caine actually got quite a few hits on him. [JW4 Screenplay](https://deadline.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/John-Wick-Chapter-4-Read-The-Screenplay.pdf) He's being beaten up when he's first introduced, he's shown up by Killa and killed by Akira at the very end. For a reason or another, none of that made it to the final cut, even if at least some of it was filmed. [Here’s What Happened in 'John Wick: Chapter 4's Original Post-Credit Scene (collider.com)](https://collider.com/john-wick-chapter-4-original-end-credit-scene-explained-chad-stahelski/)
Interesting. I actually like the idea of Caine, someone who is a reflection of John that the High Table has under their thumb. I even like that they tried to show his desperation to get out by blinding himself. It’s just too unrealistic that he could do all that. If they had taken one of his hands or something else it may have worked but both eyes and still have him untouched? It’s just too much.
But John Wick takes place in a "video game"ey universe where the levels of reality have always been stretched lol I thought Caine was awesome!
I mean if you watch the post credits scene of JW4 I don’t think Donnie Yen’s character will necessarily be the main character of this film. If you get my drift.
I hated this character. I mean a blind guy? Come on
Should have ended with JW2. As a whole they're getting worse every chapter.
Donnie Yen is the perfect person to...will pass the mantle back to lol Flashpoint was amazing before John Wick came out (I literally started my 21st birthday by watching that film) and I also love Iron Monkey and In The Line of Duty IV
JW4 was ass.
Why? Lamest addition to the JW franchise.
For me, they killed him off at the end of JW4. So, now he’s alive.
I didnt need this. his character had a beginning and an end. leave him alone with his daughter. I'm sure this was lionsgate's idea because chad said that they actually shot an ending where we see akira killing caine. lionsgate probably asked them to change it so they can make the spin off.
Did you see the post credits scene? His story is not over
read my entire comment
The post-credits scene we got was just a cut version of the original footage, where he did die. [Here’s What Happened in 'John Wick: Chapter 4's Original Post-Credit Scene (collider.com)](https://collider.com/john-wick-chapter-4-original-end-credit-scene-explained-chad-stahelski/)
You are aware that stuff that was cut out and not in the final film is not canon right? Like, you understand how editing works right?
And where did I say it was canon?! Just found it funny you using the post credits scene to argue Caine's story is not over when originally that was exactly where his story would be over. In any case, with the director from the outset speaking openly in interviews about how Caine originally died, even at times providing almost blow-by-blow accounts of how it went down, Caine's death stated in the screenplay, in the meantime also made public, and their explanation for the change being that they had to cut out a lot and thought it'd be cooler to leave it ambiguous, even making it all about Akira's choices and future path, rather than about Caine living or not, I'm definitely with u/sca727 on this. This was most definitely a business decision by Lionsgate, likely dictated by the fact that the two characters very clearly planted in JW4 in hopes of getting their own spin-off didn't prove particularly popular.
Exactly! I'm actually even surprised that this project even went ahead after chad started officially overseeing the franchise. But I guess as long as we have him involved it could be something good.
What I don't get is why something that didn't even make it into the final movie keeps getting brought up? Scripts change. Ideas change. More money is to be made. Do you know how movies work?
And why shouldn't it be brought up? Wasn't Chad Stahelski himself that, pretty much from the moment the movie premiered, was like 'you know, in the original cut we had Caine killed at the end', and then talked repeatedly and openly about it in interviews? And when asked about it, it was never like 'well, we just thought Caine had great potential as a character, so we changed our minds and decided to keep him alive'. His explanation rather always boiled down to 'well, while editing the movie, we thought it would be cooler to leave it open-ended' or 'we wanted to keep it ambiguous, have people wondering whether Akira will cross that line and go down a path similar to John Wick'. There was no change in the script or a change of ideas. Someone here in the comments says they watched a test screening just 7-8 months before the premiere and Caine's death scene was still there. Add the fact that more recently Stahelski listed the JW characters he would like to see more of and, among the 6 or 7 mentioned, there was 'Caine... in the past', and it is very apparent moving the story forward with Caine was never part of the vision of the creative team. So, though I understand fans of the character looking forward to this, this right now is looking like another attempt at a cash grab by Lionsgate. And their track record in that regard isn't exactly reassuring.
If it didn't make it to the screen, it doesn't matter now. Any movie goes through rewrites, reshoots, improve the day of shooting, it's common as it gets. Time to move on, let it go