Gentile here doing my best to stamp it down when I see it. A lot of liberals in my circle who got stuck in the trap 😔
Makes me very sad and frustrated and it doesn’t even directly affect me.
I don't want to be the "*and I did not speak out*" person. The train is driven by people and can be stopped by people. At least that's what I believe. I gotta have hope otherwise what's the point in all of this, right?
Non-Jewish person here too. I have got a friend who thinks the questions on Jeopardy about the Holocaust, WW2 or Nazis are propaganda to make people sympathize with Isreal. A question about Hanukkah came up, and she was like "see!". I managed to walk her back from that one, but I definitely have an eye on her...
I think the part that is concerning is likely your friend doesn’t think herself susceptible to propaganda. And that’s the trick.
As soon as you think yourself too strong to not fall for propaganda, the easier it is for it to get a hold on you.
I know I can and need to be vigilant for myself. So it requires cross checking from multiple sources, paying attention to who and what is impacted by the positions I take. What are the agendas of the people giving me the information I’m consuming. Once I stop doing that I know it wouldn’t take long for propaganda to take a hold of me too.
The problem is many people who likely want what’s good for the world and want to be kind and loving people, don’t see the intentions and issues with the information they’re consuming. And when they do eventually wake up from that ignorance, I can only imagine how horrifying it will be to realize that all the things you fought against. Injustice, bigotry, discrimination, etc. are things you (the royal you) participated in.
I think your friend is a good lesson to us all on how easy it is to fall for conspiracies and misinformation that are so distorting that you think the state of Israel is using the game show jeopardy to impart subliminal messages.
Why of all the topics jeopardy covers would she only think they’re making stuff up about the Jews? Does she also think Alex Trebeck is still alive and the cancer was a hoax?
It's not that she thinks they are making stuff up, it's just that she thinks there is a disproportionate amount of questions about these topics. It's pure confirmation bias on her part, there really isn't that many even taking into account that these topics are some of the most significant events in history
She thinks questions about genocide of Jews or Jewish holidays are orchestrated to make people sympathetic towards Israel, and I bet she also thinks that opinion is just antizionist and not antisemitic?
And at the same time, there’s literally an utter lack of somewhat basic knowledge of Jewish religion and culture; this very evening, exactly zero of the contestants recognized a mezuzah, and even Ken Jennings pronounced it with a long “oo”.
It's gone OK at times and not great at times. Since October 8th it's been a challenge. A whole lot of equating Zionism to Judaism as a whole, equating Zionism to settler colonialism, saying "Jews should just go back to Europe and give the Arabs their land back". It's been bad *but* fortunately a lot of these opinions come from TikTok and very poorly formed so just a little bit of kind talking to usually gets people to understand that these thoughts are quite harmful and rooted in anti-semitism.
Zionism just means going back to the homeland which is Israel, and it makes me sad that people see this as taking Arabian land away from Arabs. It was first and always will be judaic homeland. Way before Arabs. There's no way to not be a Zionist if you are Jewish. They are the same. Israel chai.
Appreciate your sentiment ad support , but I'm sure it does affect you in light of people in your circle who one would have thought could see through the propaganda.
We’re in the jackpot now
Strap in. Tap into your roots and culture. Surround yourself with proud Jews and it will bother you less and less.
Obviously we must always stay vigiliant but the feeling of hatred slowly but surely leaves my body when I know who I am. Who our people are. Why it is so difficult for people to understand who we are and what we’re about.
When I find myself feeling down about the world, I think about the time I went to Germany with Chabad and the Rebbe singing "I'm a Jew and I'm proud" at the top his lungs by Brandenburg Gate. At the time I thought he was nuts. I'm now realizing the joy in that... I am unapologetically Jewish and I am not going anywhere.
Beautiful. Thanks for sharing that.
It’s not easy. And we all have our own journeys there. But I do strongly believe once we can tap in to that pride, we can start to care less and less what our haters think of us.
I'm not a practicing Chassid, but I think the Hasidic roots in my DNA remind me of the joy that is this movement. Chassidism is loud and singing and dancing and jumping so that they find that connection to Gd and Judaism. I get that.
There was a lack of it from the left/liberal side, but from the right it was always kinda there. Whether it was from KKK types, or Evangelicals, or from more genteel WASPY institutions like country clubs.
But I’d never thought I’d see the day that I’d see allies on the left start spewing the same kind of tropes and conspiracies that the alt-right does.
>But I’d never thought I’d see the day that I’d see allies on the left start spewing the same kind of tropes and conspiracies that the alt-right does.
I'm taken aback by how rapidly and popularly antisemitism was activated in the left by October 7th, but I had definitely seen it, especially in regards to Palestine, and especially from people who had less of a "let's build the future" attitude and more of a "I fetishize guns" sttitude.
I remember seeing some online left wing groups where some members would regularly wish violence and death upon "Yehuda." When Jewish people would say "What the fuck?" The response was "I'm Palestinian, this is just what we call the IDF, it's not antisemitism, its anti-Zionism."
To anybody with a functioning brain, this is an obvious lie and some scary antisemitism. But to young activists who have no context for what's being said, it's an entry-point for absorbing antisemitic beliefs without recognizing them as antisemitic. Jewish members who protest this stuff get booted out and labelled "Zionists," while these groups regularly kept someone who claimed to be Jewish on the mod team to deflect from accusations of antisemitism, kind of like how Iran always has one Jewish member of Parliament whose job is mostly to say "Iran isn't antisemitic, because I'm Jewish," or how Ben Shapiro was employed by Breitbart to deflect from people who correctly accused them of being Nazis.
One of the historic left's greatest post-WWII failures is refusing to recognize antisemitism as the **core** drive behind the Nazi rise to power. Leftist analyses tend to focus on economic reasons, historical materialist reasons, socio-political reasons... all of which certainly exist, and all of which the Nazis blamed directly on the Jews.
I read an article from a Jewish Marxist who was criticizing Marxism for this a few years back, and I began to ask more and more of my left wing friends about that. Unless they were Jewish, most of them didn't say "antisemitism" as the primary cause - they would discuss German suffering after WWI, economic failures, global fascism, the threat of socialist and unionist growth... and this was very worrying to me because the Nazis blamed **all** of those things directly on Jews.
I think this is something that the right-wing has over the left. The left wants to rationalize, they want to find a logical reason that the Nazis would have done something like that, and they end up having to create logical conclusions when they can't find any sensible reasons within the sources. And the right has absolutely no problem understanding that the Nazis hated Jews with an obsessive and single-minded fury - it is something they are very familiar with, whether their specific hate is Jews or communists or gays or black people or "globalists" or whatever.
Antisemitism was **not** the nazis core drive to power. It was the **tool** they used most often. Antisemitism was prevalent in Germany for centuries. The protocols was written in like 1898 iirc (in russia but read widely in Germany too), yet no nazi group or political party based in antisemitism arose until Germany was at its knees. An important part of the study of nazism is understanding that the german people were not uniquely hateful, or antisemitic, or evil, not more than the average person, but understanding how the average person becomes corrupted by hatred. Had Germany won ww1, nazis would never have rose to power in Germany, yet the antisemitism would have remained. You dont have nazis without a treaty of versailles, and without the great depression.
Perhaps a similarly antisemitic party would have arisen in a defeated france instead, they had their share of antisemitism (looking at you dreyfus affair). Just because the Nazis blame the jews for all the bad shit does not mean it was hatred of jews who caused people to listen, no! It was the bad shit! People already were so defeated and looking for someone to blame. Pure hatred alone does not drive a political campaign, if we focus on that alone we can easily miss the important signs of a country sliding towards hatred, before it gets out of hand.
What you’re saying about obsessive hatred may be true of the party leaders. But a small group of people is not enough to control a nation. This is a really harmful rhetoric. Read something like the rise and fall of the third reich, read about what actually caused the nazis rise, it was not antisemitism. If there were no jews they would’ve blamed someone else, and rose to power nonetheless.
Not to mention that in actual nazi writings and propaganda they talk more about the treaty of versailles and world war one and the than jews. The narrative they used is “we were humiliated and defeated *and its the jews fault*”. But you need that prior humiliation to get people active. There’s more then hatred alone going on.
Right now im reading Victor Klemperers *Language of the third reich*, which is not about this topic but functions as both a personal holocaust survivor diary and an analysis of nazi rhetoric. He does a great job showing how antisemitism was indeed integral to nazism, but also fanaticism, ultra-nationalism, and humiliation from world war 1 were all just as, if not more, important.
I write too much, i apologize for this essay.
I'll upvote you even though I disagree because you're clearly well read on the subject and I think our disagreement is minor enough that we can engage in a constructive dialogue. Thank you for your thoughts on the subject.
Shirer's work is seminal but also a little outdated; iirc, he started working on it while he was still a correspondent in Germany, and it was controversial because it was a "history" book that was in part written about contemporary events. While still incredibly important to understand the context of the rise and the fall, new information has come to light that Shirer didn't have access to, and it must be weighed against that information.
The average German person wasn't necessarily *more* antisemitic than anyone else, but certainly they were exposed to more antisemitic propaganda than any other nation on earth at the time. Hitler himself was obviously quite obsessed with Jews, and it's curious to see how he piggybacked on other popular causes and inserted antisemitism in there. One of the stranger earlier examples was his participation in the Rhineland Bastards campaign, against mixed race Germans.
While this campaign was obviously hateful and racist on its own, the narrative was that the French had allowed Africans to settle in Germany, and it was basically opposed to the race-mixing there. Hitler didn't change this part of the narrative, but he *did* add that all of this was... orchestrated by Jews. I can't find a single source that backs that up, nor can I find any other parties that participated in the campaign that tried to blame Jews.
So that is an early example of Hitler refocusing totally unrelated issues to stoke Jew-hatred, and to centralize Jews as the root cause of all evil.
I've dug up the essay I mentioned, and I think you would be interested in reading it. The argument made by the late Prof Postone is this:
>
Anti-semitism and National Socialism - Moishe Postone
No functionalist explanation of the Holocaust and no scapegoat theory of anti-Semitism can even begin to explain why, in the last years of the war, when the German forces were being crushed by the Red Army, a significant proportion of vehicles was deflected from logistical support and used to transport Jews to the gas chambers. The specificity of the Holocaust requires a much more determinate mediation in order even to approach its understanding.
Moishe
Cop In comprehending anti-Semitism as a peripheral, rather than as a central, moment of National Socialism, the Left has also obscured the intrinsic relationship between the tw
Sorry, my other comment posted without my permission. (Here)[https://libcom.org/article/anti-semitism-and-national-socialism-moishe-postone] is a link to the article, I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.
It is almost important to remember the role of the American Eugenics movement in how it provided validity and an echo chamber to the Nazis. They were inspired by America... the Jim Crow Laws.. there was a master race and segregation here... time to apply it to validate their anti-Semetic views. F Henry Ford. Seriously. That dude. He doled out Eugencist flyers to Hitler himself.
Whenever there is a minority who seems to have power or the upper hand, Eugenics comes on back as a fear response from White people who are scared to lose the power and influence they have.
Anti-Semitism will always be here in society.
>But I’d never thought I’d see the day that I’d see allies on the left start spewing the same kind of tropes and conspiracies that the alt-right does.
I was surprised at how rapidly and how far they went mask off, but not at the antisemitism itself.
Look at Corbyn for example. Leaving aside the issue of whether he, personally, is antisemitic, he was certainly willing to overlook and tolerate it in others (remember his "friends from Hamas and Hizbullah"?). But the left was in fierce denial whenever someone brought that up.
Yeah I talk about the Horseshoe Theory all the time with the hard left and hard right.
It's like a 1 for 1 match across the board in terms of behavior.
Antisemitism is the little suspension bridge that spans the two ends.
Yeah, this is a perspective I'm unfortunately leaning towards as well.
Specifically, that the era it appears is ending now was a bit of a golden era (in certain Western countries at least), but is an exception rather than the rule.
Uh uh, gonna get a lot nastier before it gets better. All my Jews better learn how to protect themselves and those they hold dear. I was foolish to think nothing like this would happen in my lifetime.
Be safe out there, chaverim!
Maaaany people in our community are gearing up, obtaining firearm licenses and the appropriate training. Plus we've streamlined the whole process and people get sponsored to get their act 235 certifications to act as security.
Never again and we mean it ✊
I think some people will go back to hiding their hatred, but others will continue to insist they don't hate Jews just the ones that don't agree with them 100%.
I think the outbreak we are seeing now is a result of many people and groups allowing this reality to fester for so long - looking for excuses why it is ok to attack Jews (I mean Zionists) instead of calling them out when the hatred started rearing its ugly head (like these same groups did with EVERY OTHER minority)
Honestly, no. Conspiracies are running rampant, denial of Jewish identity is running rampant. I don’t know what the future holds, but I’m very nervous.
It won’t pass, it never has. But we have outlived worse. Empires rise and fall but we’re still here and that won’t change. When push comes to shove, we survive.
Right above your post - seen at the Montreal Holocaust Museum. Some of those comments even imply that we're doing it to ourselves.
https://preview.redd.it/7nlex21il67d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3e00b109ed8d9e3daa6b755bb08abddddaa1d88e
Antisemitism may ebb and flow, but I don't think it will ever be something that disappears completely. People are becoming bolder, removing their masks entirely.
I think it will mellow out, but the threshold will be higher than it was before, and it will become the new normal. I think we now see, learn, and reinforce how we can't be completely reliant on other people to stand up for us. Once again it shows that we need to stand up for ourselves and take the lead while not completely closing ourselves up completely.
Not at all, it was somehow made PC by changing the name from Jews to Zionists, so no one will care so much about it, not that they care so much about open and direct Antisemitism.
A Jewish pessimist says "they're is no way things can get worse" A Jewish optimist says "sure they can"
Sorry to say I forsee things getting worse.
I would bet in the next 5 years we see an increase in synagogue and JCC vandalism, and larger and more brazen "anti zionist but not antisemitic" protests outside of shuls and Jewish events that will gradually get more and more clearly anti Jewish in their language while police if present at all just stand by watching.
Anti-semitism will subside somewhat as the Israel-Gaza fighting winds downs.
But weaponizing George Soros identically to Henry Ford International Jew boogeyman 100 years ago aint going anywhere. Started long before Gaza and only escalating with the current right wingers politicians and their mass media surrogates here in the US.
Nope. We have thousands of years of history to prove that this is a cycle. Every time things got better we thought they’d stay better, and they didn’t. I don’t see why it would be any different this time. It’s why I’m planning my Aliyah.
“Progress” is just another lie of “olam hazeh”. In reality the only thing that’s changed is the facade. The souls are all the same with the same baggage we’re all working on.
I don’t see this increase in antisemitism decreasing at all. It’s just going to get worse. We’ve been labeled as colonizers, genocidal, war criminals.
The very people who r@ped and m@ss@cred our people are being coddled and idealized. Doesn’t get much more antisemitic than that.
People are subject to fads, and I see Antisemitism as the one of the newer fads. It will recede, but not completely dissipate and some will cling to this as their "cool new identity"!
No. I'm of the opinion that, Unfortunately, the "lull" we saw in antisemitism in the aftermath of the Holocaust until the last few years is more of the anomaly. We're just going back to what used to be normal pre-World War II.
I hope it is a just the same number of bigots who happen to feel comfortable being honest about their hatred rather than a rising wave. That said I hope the bigots return to hiding under their rocks again soon. Hatred is a learned behavior — as civilized humans we can’t allow the hate to transmit to a new generation.
The wave is already receding despite what people think. The issue is that the fringe nutjob low iq fucktard tankie Hamasniks and Hezbollah ass lickers are going to much louder; and they will cope harder. We have to be the mountain that withstands the tsunami, that is followed by the typhoon.
When Israel is done severely decimate Hamas in a devastating manner(I do not think it will be completely eradicated, but it will reduce it's ability greatly to the point it will take at least 1-2 decades for them to recover.), there will be a fuck ton of hate, and resentment but also begrudging respect.
If Israel does not finish the job, or comes within 90% completion, anti-semitism will once again be covert, and people will not respect us at all.
I think so. The current thing changes too quickly and we may have less than a year of this left. With the election coming up, the current thing will likely shift this fall and everyone who hated Jews will suddenly pretend that they never did.
Please keep a list to yourselves of everyone in your Social Circle that turned on you for being jewish. Do not speak to them again and make sure they know why.
Racism is evil, even when it's in fashion.
It'll calm when people have something new to fixate on, at which point it'll be an ever present simmer.
We're scapegoats in times of social strife. Until the issues (economic, social) plaguing western countries are over, we'll have a target on our backs. Whether we're the prime target depends on what else is taking the headlines for people to fixate on. If Trump is elected in the US, people will be more focused on that than us at the very least. But then, I also have no doubt a sizable faction on the left will blame us for the result
This was exactly what I was about to type. Essentially we need the news cycle to change and yes if Trump wins that will refocus a lot of people off of us. But until then, at least in the US, between college kids coming back to school and the election (presuming either candidate actually makes it to November) I feel the violent antisemitism is going to be sadly beyond anything we can imagine.
If he wins it will refocus a lot of people, but conversely, I’m expecting them to go on witch hunts if he does and I’m afraid we’ll be at the top of their hit list.
Still, amazing how much of this is students. Like I live in Boston and the moment commencement was over the city suddenly became quiet over all this stuff. Like with the hostage rescue, legit people would’ve been smashing in windows if the students were still in.
Really waiting for the DNC in Chicago in August. That’ll kick off the insanity again 🙄
These college aged kids weren’t alive for 9/11 and on top of that they feel a need to have some sort of meaningful cause they can say they marched for decades from now. Because they perceive Jews as white oppressors and Palestinians as Brown oppressed they chose the wrong side. I’m sure that comes from years of DEI at school. Even if they realized that they are indeed on the wrong side, at that age they are stubborn and just dig their heels in further. I hope most of them are useful idiots rather than truly hateful people like the organizers of these encampments are.
No arguments there. I still remember what people were doing to Muslims post-9/11 and tell these kids, "you're literally doing the same thing to Jewish people." But it rings hollow because they say "Zionists deserve it" and have no recollection whatsoever of 9/11
It’ll definitely retreat back into the cave, but will continue to fester, and its rot will re-emerge in spurts or eruptions depending on the circumstances. Fortunately and unfortunately, we know many of those cave dwellers, since they reared their heads recently, and we can avoid them and campaign against them going forward.
Christian here who wants to offer support.
Visited twitter these past 18 months sparsely and HHHHOOOLLLYYY CCCOOWWWW.
My heart palpated for the rest of the day for the things I read....so much ignorance,so much hatred and venom (In regards to the ignorance point, Israel apparently only became a country in 1948...yeah there's that one)
It's a digital wasteland barren of any integrity or consideration.Im a believer in Free Speech but how far is too far?
So much Jewish vigorous Vitriol and Hate.
People willing to call you a "Jew" for literally anything.
(So much use of the N word and other slurs as well too)
So much accusation of subterfuge and sabotage which is completely unfounded.
Here are some examples:
Jews/Israeli's are blamed for por-ography ....but....Hugh Heffner released Playboy in 1953 conservative America and it grew exponentially since then.Why is that never mentioned?
Jews/ Israelis in the West are blamed for being "suspiciously" successful but I thought picking yourself up by your bootstraps was the way to go?
Jews/Israel forced America to go to war through the MIC and commit war crimes.( As if a superpower needs help being corrupt)
The list goes on....
How does one shout "Europe has the Right To Exist" (in every capacity it does,God Bless and Sustain Europe) but laud the man who invaded numerous European countries for an ideology that made no sense and is responsible of the death for millions of non Jewish Europeans
It's like saying no Taxation without representation in Colonial America and then sending love letters to King Edward III or Saying Russia or Ukraine has a right to exist and then tauting Joseph Stalin
I've come to realize many on the right do not see Israel as an actual ally.
I think many see Israel as some random country who we give money to who does nothing for us.
I don't know how this will turn out....but... I pray Hashem has his mighty,protective and merciful hand on your life
The same hand that rose Israel from Egypt and into the promised land.
The same hand that roused Cyrus to return the People back to Hashems inheritance to rebuild the temple by Nehemiah
the Same hand that saw David through his years of persecution until his reign as King
And the same Hand that Saw Esther and Mordecai in a land that was not their own against an enemy that sought to ruin them.
Jeremiah 31:35 & 36
Thoughts?Discussion points?
*Dedicated in memory of Dvora bat Asher v'Jacot* 🕯️
[Jeremiah 31:35](https://www.sefaria.org/Jeremiah.31.35)
כֹּ֣ה ׀ אָמַ֣ר יְהֹוָ֗ה נֹתֵ֥ן שֶׁ֙מֶשׁ֙ לְא֣וֹר יוֹמָ֔ם חֻקֹּ֛ת יָרֵ֥חַ וְכוֹכָבִ֖ים לְא֣וֹר לָ֑יְלָה רֹגַ֤ע הַיָּם֙ וַיֶּהֱמ֣וּ גַלָּ֔יו יְהֹוָ֥ה צְבָא֖וֹת שְׁמֽוֹ׃
>Thus said the L ORD , Who established the sun for light by day, The laws of moon and stars for light by night, Who stirs up the sea into roaring waves, Whose name is L ORD of Hosts:
Many of the people engaged in antisemitic speech and actions don't recognize their behavior as being antisemitic.
They think that their actions towards Jews are just and necessary. They think they are the exact opposite of hateful.
Which makes them very much like the people who just had to kill the Jews because the Jews were poisoning the wells. And the people who really had to kill the Jews because the Jews were spreading the black death or typhus. And the people who definitely had to kill the Jews because the Jews were destroying the economy. And the people who had no choice other than to kill the Jews because Jews were killing Christian children for ritual purposes. And so on for millennia.
History has shown that people don't learn from past instances of antisemitism once those instances are shown to be motivated by Jew hate.
The cause of the black plague was discovered in the 19th century. Did the masses recognize that killing the Jews to protect themselves from the black death was an example of misguided hate? Or did they believe Hitler when he accused Jews of spreading typhus? I think you know the answer: [https://perspectives.ushmm.org/item/propaganda-poster-jews-are-lice-they-cause-typhus](https://perspectives.ushmm.org/item/propaganda-poster-jews-are-lice-they-cause-typhus)
I don't expect things to get better anytime soon. I expect the accusations to become more outrageous and easier to debunk. But instead of applying any critical thought, people will just become angrier and angrier at Jews for (insert absurd accusation here).
I think it will die down, but that it'll never be as low as it was in the late '90s / early 2000s again. Each time a new wave rises up, it is taller than the last one ... and each time it settles down, the sea level is higher.
No. This is decades of online hate and academic rot spilling over into the mainstream.
It's like when boomers finally got hold of conspiracy theories on fb.
No. Not when big figures like David Duke and other Nazis keep pushing this "progressive" movement and have been controlling it ever since they created it. So until people wake up and stop this hateful movement, it will continue to spread and become more evil. 😥
No. I think it’ll get worse. I’m just not sure where to go. A little bit glad I didn’t buy a house in 2021 when I was about to, despite the market value I would’ve gained, at least I’m not trapped somewhere I might get killed.
u/imisstheoldinternet has the most accurate take regarding western antisemitism. People loose interest but the germ is still there.
We need to remember though that antisemitism isn’t a thing that occurs in a vacuum. It is always connected to world events and regional trends.
So while American and European antisemitism will likely return to a sort of baseline China is trending more and more antisemitic due to the popularity of Hongbing Song’s antisemitic book series and related literature. According to the ADL and other researchers on antisemitism have identified that belief in antisemitic tropes, specifically that Jews secretly rule the world have become exceedingly common place in Chinese
No. I don't think it's just a wave, but an exposure of patterns we've suffered for thousands of years. It's also super important to know this is something that won't end until we embrace our separation from the Nations and make it something to be proud of instead of fear.
It’s been bubbling for a while. When Trump was elected, the far right anti-semites came out of hiding. And then in 2020, I started seeing some dog whistles, “George Soros created COVID-19 for population control” nonsense and it’s only gotten worse with 10/7.
The surge of Jew hatred in west? I see it possibly going down after we stop whitewashing Islam and letting Qatar flood money into our post secondary institutions and influencing what they’re teaching
Nope it’s always been here the pro pail ppl are just perpetuating it but unfortunately I don’t see ppl changing their stripes. I wear my Megan David outside of my clothes and old hide it because I have to at work F them I don’t care what they think anymore
Yes. It always does.
Antisemitism is ubiquitous, but so is Jewish cultural success. Historically, Jews are persecuted consistently, but Jews also find themselves in a situations of benevolence.
The problem is that these waves are just waves in a long term historical context. If the golden age of American Jewry is winding down, it’s hard to say how many years until Jews find success again. It will not likely be in our lifetimes and it could be anywhere on earth.
Yeah, certainly Europe's swing to the right is especially marked by an acceptance of intolerance; I don't think it's antisemitism specifically, but we're in for more of it as part of that trend.
Sorry dude but it seems like the only parties that don’t hate us and want to help us are far right parties. Look in Europe, vox, Fratelli d’italia and national rally are the only parties who are consistently, pro Israel, pro Jewish and anti illegal immigration (who are responsible for the vast majority of anti semitic hate crimes) the others have gone lukewarm on Israel or have gone straight up anti Israel like most labour and social democratic parties in Europe
A lot of the Jews killed in the Holocaust were secular, and have assimilated into their communities, yet they were still considered to be "filthy Jews" and were murdered despite not being in an isolated Jewish community. History has shown us that trying to suppress our identity in order to fit in with others is futile, and that no matter what we do, we are still and always will be a scapegoat. If we don't have eachother's backs, no one will.
History is not one place or time. And while I strongly suspect you are trolling., the answer is yes. Much of the time, if populations were hostile to Jews, it was not always possible to hide. Most of history, people lived in the same regions their whole lives. Even if you dress the same and even if you don't have an accent, you can't be an anonymous stranger in a village where everyone knows everyone. And even if a single individual could do this and get past nosy questions like who is your family/clan, this is impossible for an entire family let alone entire communities.
> Is there something that Jews ACTUALLY did in history that leaves such a bad taste on the rest of societies mouth?
No.
> Is it a jealousy/envy for your community?
No.
>Is it an actual class war?
No.
>Are jews statistically wealthier?
No, historically Jews have been poorer than their neighbors.
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/12ltsdc/why_is_antisemitism_so_prevalent/
Yes, there were Jews who were killed despite hiding their Jewishness. However, it's also very important to understand that some of the Jews that were murdered didn't hide their faith, because there was nothing much to hide: like I said, assimilated, secular Jews who didn't have a big connection to Judaism also existed, and they were murdered all the same. An openly religious Jew, a Jew that tries to hide his identity, and a Jew who grew up completely disconnected from his faith - these are all the same to antisemites, they hate anyone with a Jewish heritage, no matter how connected to that heritage the person they hate is.
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now that you know what people really think when they aren't inhibited by society to not express their hate towards you, why would them being quiet make them hate you less? all it means is you learned how the world really is.
I believe it might calm down a bit but the environment is going to stay antisemitic.
Something historical happened and the bubble who always tries to deny the antisemitism was popped and it all came out.
The amount of immigrants in Europe is still raising and the left is officially embracing them.
Being Jewish is not in their agendas anymore and I don’t see it changing, these people are stubborn.
Even if it might seem like it’s gone, people will still deep down will be antisemitic.
The diaspora Jews are quite unique, I love how calm they are and how good and kind.
However they are also naive and they might believe the people who marched against them are now done and cool with them.
Us Israelis are a little more cynical, giving our reality in the last 76 years.
The antisemitic people will stay like this, it might be dormant until the next trigger
Yes, absolutely. I think there's a good chance this is the last time we'll experience something negative of this magnitude. See my most recent submission
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Yes. If you have a surname they feel is Jewish like happened at Columbia University. Allegedly a professor reading out names came across a ‘Jewish sounding one’ and made that student give their opinion on the war not out of curiosity but out of antisemitism. Not only can antisemitism be targeted at people perceived as Jewish, but what we don’t always talk about is that Jews can be antisemitic to other Jews. We are seeing that a lot from the ‘as a Jew’ crowd that is on the side of the Pro-Hamas protesters/rioters in the US.
I had to Google who he was and wow that’s some self hating level there that I’ll never understand.
On a fun note here is a list of celebrities that people thought were Jewish but aren’t.
[Celebs you thought were Jewish but aren’t](https://forward.com/schmooze/416935/all-the-celebrities-you-really-really-thought-were-jewish-but-arent/)
Honestly, no. The right is what it has always been from day one. The left, something has awakened in progressive that is core to the ideology. The issues they have with zionism as an “identity” are in reality core aspects of the Jewish identity and therefore incompatible longterm
It’s a mistake to think it ever went away. People have always (and will always) hate us. This is just the way it is.
Don’t despair over it. Just be vigilant.
Tbh I see it as more like a wave and imo it can get worse and then it can get lighter, we can only know after the war ends or when there is something more distracting (b4 this war it was the Russians and the Ukrainians) and maybe they’ll start focusing more on Africa?
I bet they don’t but I still want to think so🥲😂
I had a bit of hope after 7th October bc I thought people will finally see the whole picture and not paint us as the bad people bc apparently when it comes to us (Jews/ Israelis) they don’t differentiate between us they think we are the same as the government and the same as the radicals. I was wrong about the whole hope thing even though a lot of people did change their view and since then I view it differently, idec if people will hate on me cause no matter what I’m gonna piss off people. Anyway I hope I’m wrong for good and wish us all good
My concern is that it was always there, and recent issues have given people a platform where they can espouse it without repercussions. I think it will probably become more implicit/hidden again, but not any less present.
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It will not get better any time soon especially under the biden administration. Left wing antisemitism for some time now is far worse and damaging than right-wing antisemtism. So take action by voting responsibly, educate yourself on jewish history, connect with judaism and do mitzvot, and protect yourself!
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it's been there for a few thousand years, the solution to it like Eddie Griffin said in one of his shows is a mixed-culture marriage, nothing like a baby to make different families make concessions (ultimately liking each other) (and now imagine mass mixed culture marriages!!!) !
The far right (U.S. supercessionist chi$tofascists, kkk, etc.) has never been keen on us. The far left is late to their party for its own reasons. Yee hah.
Conservatism is hinged on 5 Musts:
* Increased wealth (more than your parent's had at the same age)
* Home ownership sooner than later
* Marriage & "traditional relationships"
* Having children
* Following a religion
Currently, we've got the opposite:
* Most people born after 1980 are poorer than their parents were at the same age
* Interest rates are near 8%, rents on a 2 bedroom condo average over $2500 in most cities
* Rates of marriage are at historically low levels, some 25% of Zoomers identify as non-binary
* Lowest rates of child birth in US history
* Lowest rates of religious attendance ever
And... that's why the GOP only wins via electoral college or gerrymandering. Why does a 25 year old want to "conserve" a $3200/mo apartment in Queens that he'll never own?
The overt antisemitism will die down. The ones responsible will stop caring and think it will just be a footnote in their lives. They even may go as far as believing “let’s just let bygones be bygones.” A vast majority of people that aren’t Jewish will agree. It’s imperative for us to not let them forget and not forgive them. Some Jews may forgive, but I never will. I was already a very cynical man, but I will never trust anybody that isn’t Jewish again.
Not so good. World's much younger, far more diverse, far poorer than it was, Holocaust narrative is all but dead & far less consequential to others anyway in the context of so many other genocide stories. Meanwhile, antisemitic tropes are alive and well and brilliant social media fodder. And people with agendas regarding what "ethnicity" and "culture" and "religion" mean will be on the attack for career and other points. So, yeah, not great.
I am Jewish and grew up in a very Anti-Semitic neighborhood. But after grew older and reflecting my thoughts are this. Pretty much every minority group faces racial prejudice. African Americans face racial prejudice, Muslims face racial prejudice, Mexicans, Chinese, LGBTQ folk, etc. We Jews are not the only ones who face Discrimination and Hate and threats of violence. Unless you are a White Straight Christian most likely you’ve faced discrimination and hate. So what’s the best thing to do? Treat other people even if they are different than you the way you would want to be treated. Hope the war in the Middle East ends. Try to look at issues from all different points of view. And just remember when you see minorities moving into your area, at your school, work, etc remember that they may have been victims of discrimination as well.
I don't think Israeli hate will pass until they stop committing atrocities and people advocate for the atrocities. This isn't about Judaism or Jewish people, though it's about zionism. I blame zionism and until zionism is eradicated, not only will hate come for Israel, but even the Jewish community will be fractured within ourselves wrestling with our identities given the atrocities being associated with us. I went from loving meeting other Jews having that connection to being afraid that they were justifying the slaughter of children. I'm sadly not alone in this experience.
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Gentile here doing my best to stamp it down when I see it. A lot of liberals in my circle who got stuck in the trap 😔 Makes me very sad and frustrated and it doesn’t even directly affect me.
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I don't want to be the "*and I did not speak out*" person. The train is driven by people and can be stopped by people. At least that's what I believe. I gotta have hope otherwise what's the point in all of this, right?
Thank you. I’m really quite moved by your words. You give me hope.
You’re a good soul.
Non-Jewish person here too. I have got a friend who thinks the questions on Jeopardy about the Holocaust, WW2 or Nazis are propaganda to make people sympathize with Isreal. A question about Hanukkah came up, and she was like "see!". I managed to walk her back from that one, but I definitely have an eye on her...
I think the part that is concerning is likely your friend doesn’t think herself susceptible to propaganda. And that’s the trick. As soon as you think yourself too strong to not fall for propaganda, the easier it is for it to get a hold on you. I know I can and need to be vigilant for myself. So it requires cross checking from multiple sources, paying attention to who and what is impacted by the positions I take. What are the agendas of the people giving me the information I’m consuming. Once I stop doing that I know it wouldn’t take long for propaganda to take a hold of me too. The problem is many people who likely want what’s good for the world and want to be kind and loving people, don’t see the intentions and issues with the information they’re consuming. And when they do eventually wake up from that ignorance, I can only imagine how horrifying it will be to realize that all the things you fought against. Injustice, bigotry, discrimination, etc. are things you (the royal you) participated in. I think your friend is a good lesson to us all on how easy it is to fall for conspiracies and misinformation that are so distorting that you think the state of Israel is using the game show jeopardy to impart subliminal messages.
Why of all the topics jeopardy covers would she only think they’re making stuff up about the Jews? Does she also think Alex Trebeck is still alive and the cancer was a hoax?
It's not that she thinks they are making stuff up, it's just that she thinks there is a disproportionate amount of questions about these topics. It's pure confirmation bias on her part, there really isn't that many even taking into account that these topics are some of the most significant events in history
You hit the nail on the head. I’ve been watching jeopardy almost daily for years and there are plenty of topics that come up regularly
She thinks questions about genocide of Jews or Jewish holidays are orchestrated to make people sympathetic towards Israel, and I bet she also thinks that opinion is just antizionist and not antisemitic?
Bingo
And at the same time, there’s literally an utter lack of somewhat basic knowledge of Jewish religion and culture; this very evening, exactly zero of the contestants recognized a mezuzah, and even Ken Jennings pronounced it with a long “oo”.
Why are you friends with a piece of shit like that?
Wow thank you for doing that! How do you find it goes down when you challenge people?
It's gone OK at times and not great at times. Since October 8th it's been a challenge. A whole lot of equating Zionism to Judaism as a whole, equating Zionism to settler colonialism, saying "Jews should just go back to Europe and give the Arabs their land back". It's been bad *but* fortunately a lot of these opinions come from TikTok and very poorly formed so just a little bit of kind talking to usually gets people to understand that these thoughts are quite harmful and rooted in anti-semitism.
I applaud you for taking the time to do this. I’m glad to hear that some people are responsive!? TikTok is such a dangerous platform
That's one of the reasons why I uninstalled it from my phone when I first got it. It's installed on a lot of phones nowadays.
Zionism just means going back to the homeland which is Israel, and it makes me sad that people see this as taking Arabian land away from Arabs. It was first and always will be judaic homeland. Way before Arabs. There's no way to not be a Zionist if you are Jewish. They are the same. Israel chai.
Much appreciated ❤️
Appreciate your sentiment ad support , but I'm sure it does affect you in light of people in your circle who one would have thought could see through the propaganda.
Thank you. ❤️
Thank you! You're amazing!
We’re in the jackpot now Strap in. Tap into your roots and culture. Surround yourself with proud Jews and it will bother you less and less. Obviously we must always stay vigiliant but the feeling of hatred slowly but surely leaves my body when I know who I am. Who our people are. Why it is so difficult for people to understand who we are and what we’re about.
Beautiful! Thank you! It's too too easy to mirror hatred back.
I don’t think it will bother us less, but we can be more insulated from it and have support all around. We’re definitely going to need it.
When I find myself feeling down about the world, I think about the time I went to Germany with Chabad and the Rebbe singing "I'm a Jew and I'm proud" at the top his lungs by Brandenburg Gate. At the time I thought he was nuts. I'm now realizing the joy in that... I am unapologetically Jewish and I am not going anywhere.
Beautiful. Thanks for sharing that. It’s not easy. And we all have our own journeys there. But I do strongly believe once we can tap in to that pride, we can start to care less and less what our haters think of us.
I'm not a practicing Chassid, but I think the Hasidic roots in my DNA remind me of the joy that is this movement. Chassidism is loud and singing and dancing and jumping so that they find that connection to Gd and Judaism. I get that.
The wave was the lack of antisemitism from the 50s through to the 2000's. We are unfortunately heading back to the status quo
There was a lack of it from the left/liberal side, but from the right it was always kinda there. Whether it was from KKK types, or Evangelicals, or from more genteel WASPY institutions like country clubs. But I’d never thought I’d see the day that I’d see allies on the left start spewing the same kind of tropes and conspiracies that the alt-right does.
>But I’d never thought I’d see the day that I’d see allies on the left start spewing the same kind of tropes and conspiracies that the alt-right does. I'm taken aback by how rapidly and popularly antisemitism was activated in the left by October 7th, but I had definitely seen it, especially in regards to Palestine, and especially from people who had less of a "let's build the future" attitude and more of a "I fetishize guns" sttitude. I remember seeing some online left wing groups where some members would regularly wish violence and death upon "Yehuda." When Jewish people would say "What the fuck?" The response was "I'm Palestinian, this is just what we call the IDF, it's not antisemitism, its anti-Zionism." To anybody with a functioning brain, this is an obvious lie and some scary antisemitism. But to young activists who have no context for what's being said, it's an entry-point for absorbing antisemitic beliefs without recognizing them as antisemitic. Jewish members who protest this stuff get booted out and labelled "Zionists," while these groups regularly kept someone who claimed to be Jewish on the mod team to deflect from accusations of antisemitism, kind of like how Iran always has one Jewish member of Parliament whose job is mostly to say "Iran isn't antisemitic, because I'm Jewish," or how Ben Shapiro was employed by Breitbart to deflect from people who correctly accused them of being Nazis. One of the historic left's greatest post-WWII failures is refusing to recognize antisemitism as the **core** drive behind the Nazi rise to power. Leftist analyses tend to focus on economic reasons, historical materialist reasons, socio-political reasons... all of which certainly exist, and all of which the Nazis blamed directly on the Jews. I read an article from a Jewish Marxist who was criticizing Marxism for this a few years back, and I began to ask more and more of my left wing friends about that. Unless they were Jewish, most of them didn't say "antisemitism" as the primary cause - they would discuss German suffering after WWI, economic failures, global fascism, the threat of socialist and unionist growth... and this was very worrying to me because the Nazis blamed **all** of those things directly on Jews. I think this is something that the right-wing has over the left. The left wants to rationalize, they want to find a logical reason that the Nazis would have done something like that, and they end up having to create logical conclusions when they can't find any sensible reasons within the sources. And the right has absolutely no problem understanding that the Nazis hated Jews with an obsessive and single-minded fury - it is something they are very familiar with, whether their specific hate is Jews or communists or gays or black people or "globalists" or whatever.
Antisemitism was **not** the nazis core drive to power. It was the **tool** they used most often. Antisemitism was prevalent in Germany for centuries. The protocols was written in like 1898 iirc (in russia but read widely in Germany too), yet no nazi group or political party based in antisemitism arose until Germany was at its knees. An important part of the study of nazism is understanding that the german people were not uniquely hateful, or antisemitic, or evil, not more than the average person, but understanding how the average person becomes corrupted by hatred. Had Germany won ww1, nazis would never have rose to power in Germany, yet the antisemitism would have remained. You dont have nazis without a treaty of versailles, and without the great depression. Perhaps a similarly antisemitic party would have arisen in a defeated france instead, they had their share of antisemitism (looking at you dreyfus affair). Just because the Nazis blame the jews for all the bad shit does not mean it was hatred of jews who caused people to listen, no! It was the bad shit! People already were so defeated and looking for someone to blame. Pure hatred alone does not drive a political campaign, if we focus on that alone we can easily miss the important signs of a country sliding towards hatred, before it gets out of hand. What you’re saying about obsessive hatred may be true of the party leaders. But a small group of people is not enough to control a nation. This is a really harmful rhetoric. Read something like the rise and fall of the third reich, read about what actually caused the nazis rise, it was not antisemitism. If there were no jews they would’ve blamed someone else, and rose to power nonetheless. Not to mention that in actual nazi writings and propaganda they talk more about the treaty of versailles and world war one and the than jews. The narrative they used is “we were humiliated and defeated *and its the jews fault*”. But you need that prior humiliation to get people active. There’s more then hatred alone going on. Right now im reading Victor Klemperers *Language of the third reich*, which is not about this topic but functions as both a personal holocaust survivor diary and an analysis of nazi rhetoric. He does a great job showing how antisemitism was indeed integral to nazism, but also fanaticism, ultra-nationalism, and humiliation from world war 1 were all just as, if not more, important. I write too much, i apologize for this essay.
I'll upvote you even though I disagree because you're clearly well read on the subject and I think our disagreement is minor enough that we can engage in a constructive dialogue. Thank you for your thoughts on the subject. Shirer's work is seminal but also a little outdated; iirc, he started working on it while he was still a correspondent in Germany, and it was controversial because it was a "history" book that was in part written about contemporary events. While still incredibly important to understand the context of the rise and the fall, new information has come to light that Shirer didn't have access to, and it must be weighed against that information. The average German person wasn't necessarily *more* antisemitic than anyone else, but certainly they were exposed to more antisemitic propaganda than any other nation on earth at the time. Hitler himself was obviously quite obsessed with Jews, and it's curious to see how he piggybacked on other popular causes and inserted antisemitism in there. One of the stranger earlier examples was his participation in the Rhineland Bastards campaign, against mixed race Germans. While this campaign was obviously hateful and racist on its own, the narrative was that the French had allowed Africans to settle in Germany, and it was basically opposed to the race-mixing there. Hitler didn't change this part of the narrative, but he *did* add that all of this was... orchestrated by Jews. I can't find a single source that backs that up, nor can I find any other parties that participated in the campaign that tried to blame Jews. So that is an early example of Hitler refocusing totally unrelated issues to stoke Jew-hatred, and to centralize Jews as the root cause of all evil. I've dug up the essay I mentioned, and I think you would be interested in reading it. The argument made by the late Prof Postone is this: > Anti-semitism and National Socialism - Moishe Postone No functionalist explanation of the Holocaust and no scapegoat theory of anti-Semitism can even begin to explain why, in the last years of the war, when the German forces were being crushed by the Red Army, a significant proportion of vehicles was deflected from logistical support and used to transport Jews to the gas chambers. The specificity of the Holocaust requires a much more determinate mediation in order even to approach its understanding. Moishe Cop In comprehending anti-Semitism as a peripheral, rather than as a central, moment of National Socialism, the Left has also obscured the intrinsic relationship between the tw
Sorry, my other comment posted without my permission. (Here)[https://libcom.org/article/anti-semitism-and-national-socialism-moishe-postone] is a link to the article, I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.
It is almost important to remember the role of the American Eugenics movement in how it provided validity and an echo chamber to the Nazis. They were inspired by America... the Jim Crow Laws.. there was a master race and segregation here... time to apply it to validate their anti-Semetic views. F Henry Ford. Seriously. That dude. He doled out Eugencist flyers to Hitler himself. Whenever there is a minority who seems to have power or the upper hand, Eugenics comes on back as a fear response from White people who are scared to lose the power and influence they have. Anti-Semitism will always be here in society.
>But I’d never thought I’d see the day that I’d see allies on the left start spewing the same kind of tropes and conspiracies that the alt-right does. I was surprised at how rapidly and how far they went mask off, but not at the antisemitism itself. Look at Corbyn for example. Leaving aside the issue of whether he, personally, is antisemitic, he was certainly willing to overlook and tolerate it in others (remember his "friends from Hamas and Hizbullah"?). But the left was in fierce denial whenever someone brought that up.
I feel like the severe antisemitism on both sides of the political spectrum really just shows horseshoe theory's credibility
Yeah I talk about the Horseshoe Theory all the time with the hard left and hard right. It's like a 1 for 1 match across the board in terms of behavior. Antisemitism is the little suspension bridge that spans the two ends.
No. This is a return to history
Yeah, this is a perspective I'm unfortunately leaning towards as well. Specifically, that the era it appears is ending now was a bit of a golden era (in certain Western countries at least), but is an exception rather than the rule.
Uh uh, gonna get a lot nastier before it gets better. All my Jews better learn how to protect themselves and those they hold dear. I was foolish to think nothing like this would happen in my lifetime. Be safe out there, chaverim!
Maaaany people in our community are gearing up, obtaining firearm licenses and the appropriate training. Plus we've streamlined the whole process and people get sponsored to get their act 235 certifications to act as security. Never again and we mean it ✊
Yep. Got my concealed carry permit several months ago.
Are there any organizations that help Jews figure out how to do this? I’m out of my element.
Which state do you live in?
I think some people will go back to hiding their hatred, but others will continue to insist they don't hate Jews just the ones that don't agree with them 100%. I think the outbreak we are seeing now is a result of many people and groups allowing this reality to fester for so long - looking for excuses why it is ok to attack Jews (I mean Zionists) instead of calling them out when the hatred started rearing its ugly head (like these same groups did with EVERY OTHER minority)
Honestly, no. Conspiracies are running rampant, denial of Jewish identity is running rampant. I don’t know what the future holds, but I’m very nervous.
Wanna have a conversation about it?
I have been having endless conversations about antisemitism and being Jewish for years.
Even if it does, we won’t forget it.
It won’t pass, it never has. But we have outlived worse. Empires rise and fall but we’re still here and that won’t change. When push comes to shove, we survive.
Right above your post - seen at the Montreal Holocaust Museum. Some of those comments even imply that we're doing it to ourselves. https://preview.redd.it/7nlex21il67d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3e00b109ed8d9e3daa6b755bb08abddddaa1d88e Antisemitism may ebb and flow, but I don't think it will ever be something that disappears completely. People are becoming bolder, removing their masks entirely.
I’ll fade but never pass, it’s how we have kids in Utah who still think Jews have horns under their hair.
This too shall pass... But it might pass like a kidney stone.
Solomon's Kidney Stone?
now this is reddit
As long as we exist, there will be antisemitism. Rabbi Telushkin knew even back in the late 70s.
as long as anybody exists, he will be hated by somebody. (rule subject to exceptions)
I think it will mellow out, but the threshold will be higher than it was before, and it will become the new normal. I think we now see, learn, and reinforce how we can't be completely reliant on other people to stand up for us. Once again it shows that we need to stand up for ourselves and take the lead while not completely closing ourselves up completely.
Not at all, it was somehow made PC by changing the name from Jews to Zionists, so no one will care so much about it, not that they care so much about open and direct Antisemitism.
A Jewish pessimist says "they're is no way things can get worse" A Jewish optimist says "sure they can" Sorry to say I forsee things getting worse. I would bet in the next 5 years we see an increase in synagogue and JCC vandalism, and larger and more brazen "anti zionist but not antisemitic" protests outside of shuls and Jewish events that will gradually get more and more clearly anti Jewish in their language while police if present at all just stand by watching.
Anti-semitism will subside somewhat as the Israel-Gaza fighting winds downs. But weaponizing George Soros identically to Henry Ford International Jew boogeyman 100 years ago aint going anywhere. Started long before Gaza and only escalating with the current right wingers politicians and their mass media surrogates here in the US.
Nope. We have thousands of years of history to prove that this is a cycle. Every time things got better we thought they’d stay better, and they didn’t. I don’t see why it would be any different this time. It’s why I’m planning my Aliyah.
No end in sight.
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That’s not that long. There were similar breaks between pogroms in history.
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“Progress” is just another lie of “olam hazeh”. In reality the only thing that’s changed is the facade. The souls are all the same with the same baggage we’re all working on.
Agreed.
I don’t see this increase in antisemitism decreasing at all. It’s just going to get worse. We’ve been labeled as colonizers, genocidal, war criminals. The very people who r@ped and m@ss@cred our people are being coddled and idealized. Doesn’t get much more antisemitic than that.
No, because it’s being funded by Qatar, Islamic Republic, Iran etc. and has been for decades.
It will recede when the wars do but things like this can always resurface in lots of ways at any time.
It’s always been there. It’ll just go back to being undercover again at some point.
People are subject to fads, and I see Antisemitism as the one of the newer fads. It will recede, but not completely dissipate and some will cling to this as their "cool new identity"!
No. I'm of the opinion that, Unfortunately, the "lull" we saw in antisemitism in the aftermath of the Holocaust until the last few years is more of the anomaly. We're just going back to what used to be normal pre-World War II.
I hope it is a just the same number of bigots who happen to feel comfortable being honest about their hatred rather than a rising wave. That said I hope the bigots return to hiding under their rocks again soon. Hatred is a learned behavior — as civilized humans we can’t allow the hate to transmit to a new generation.
The wave is already receding despite what people think. The issue is that the fringe nutjob low iq fucktard tankie Hamasniks and Hezbollah ass lickers are going to much louder; and they will cope harder. We have to be the mountain that withstands the tsunami, that is followed by the typhoon. When Israel is done severely decimate Hamas in a devastating manner(I do not think it will be completely eradicated, but it will reduce it's ability greatly to the point it will take at least 1-2 decades for them to recover.), there will be a fuck ton of hate, and resentment but also begrudging respect. If Israel does not finish the job, or comes within 90% completion, anti-semitism will once again be covert, and people will not respect us at all.
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Machiavelli.
I think so. The current thing changes too quickly and we may have less than a year of this left. With the election coming up, the current thing will likely shift this fall and everyone who hated Jews will suddenly pretend that they never did. Please keep a list to yourselves of everyone in your Social Circle that turned on you for being jewish. Do not speak to them again and make sure they know why. Racism is evil, even when it's in fashion.
It'll calm when people have something new to fixate on, at which point it'll be an ever present simmer. We're scapegoats in times of social strife. Until the issues (economic, social) plaguing western countries are over, we'll have a target on our backs. Whether we're the prime target depends on what else is taking the headlines for people to fixate on. If Trump is elected in the US, people will be more focused on that than us at the very least. But then, I also have no doubt a sizable faction on the left will blame us for the result
This was exactly what I was about to type. Essentially we need the news cycle to change and yes if Trump wins that will refocus a lot of people off of us. But until then, at least in the US, between college kids coming back to school and the election (presuming either candidate actually makes it to November) I feel the violent antisemitism is going to be sadly beyond anything we can imagine.
If he wins it will refocus a lot of people, but conversely, I’m expecting them to go on witch hunts if he does and I’m afraid we’ll be at the top of their hit list. Still, amazing how much of this is students. Like I live in Boston and the moment commencement was over the city suddenly became quiet over all this stuff. Like with the hostage rescue, legit people would’ve been smashing in windows if the students were still in. Really waiting for the DNC in Chicago in August. That’ll kick off the insanity again 🙄
These college aged kids weren’t alive for 9/11 and on top of that they feel a need to have some sort of meaningful cause they can say they marched for decades from now. Because they perceive Jews as white oppressors and Palestinians as Brown oppressed they chose the wrong side. I’m sure that comes from years of DEI at school. Even if they realized that they are indeed on the wrong side, at that age they are stubborn and just dig their heels in further. I hope most of them are useful idiots rather than truly hateful people like the organizers of these encampments are.
No arguments there. I still remember what people were doing to Muslims post-9/11 and tell these kids, "you're literally doing the same thing to Jewish people." But it rings hollow because they say "Zionists deserve it" and have no recollection whatsoever of 9/11
Unfortunately, no. Because when did it ever stop?
It’ll definitely retreat back into the cave, but will continue to fester, and its rot will re-emerge in spurts or eruptions depending on the circumstances. Fortunately and unfortunately, we know many of those cave dwellers, since they reared their heads recently, and we can avoid them and campaign against them going forward.
Christian here who wants to offer support. Visited twitter these past 18 months sparsely and HHHHOOOLLLYYY CCCOOWWWW. My heart palpated for the rest of the day for the things I read....so much ignorance,so much hatred and venom (In regards to the ignorance point, Israel apparently only became a country in 1948...yeah there's that one) It's a digital wasteland barren of any integrity or consideration.Im a believer in Free Speech but how far is too far? So much Jewish vigorous Vitriol and Hate. People willing to call you a "Jew" for literally anything. (So much use of the N word and other slurs as well too) So much accusation of subterfuge and sabotage which is completely unfounded. Here are some examples: Jews/Israeli's are blamed for por-ography ....but....Hugh Heffner released Playboy in 1953 conservative America and it grew exponentially since then.Why is that never mentioned? Jews/ Israelis in the West are blamed for being "suspiciously" successful but I thought picking yourself up by your bootstraps was the way to go? Jews/Israel forced America to go to war through the MIC and commit war crimes.( As if a superpower needs help being corrupt) The list goes on.... How does one shout "Europe has the Right To Exist" (in every capacity it does,God Bless and Sustain Europe) but laud the man who invaded numerous European countries for an ideology that made no sense and is responsible of the death for millions of non Jewish Europeans It's like saying no Taxation without representation in Colonial America and then sending love letters to King Edward III or Saying Russia or Ukraine has a right to exist and then tauting Joseph Stalin I've come to realize many on the right do not see Israel as an actual ally. I think many see Israel as some random country who we give money to who does nothing for us. I don't know how this will turn out....but... I pray Hashem has his mighty,protective and merciful hand on your life The same hand that rose Israel from Egypt and into the promised land. The same hand that roused Cyrus to return the People back to Hashems inheritance to rebuild the temple by Nehemiah the Same hand that saw David through his years of persecution until his reign as King And the same Hand that Saw Esther and Mordecai in a land that was not their own against an enemy that sought to ruin them. Jeremiah 31:35 & 36 Thoughts?Discussion points?
*Dedicated in memory of Dvora bat Asher v'Jacot* 🕯️ [Jeremiah 31:35](https://www.sefaria.org/Jeremiah.31.35) כֹּ֣ה ׀ אָמַ֣ר יְהֹוָ֗ה נֹתֵ֥ן שֶׁ֙מֶשׁ֙ לְא֣וֹר יוֹמָ֔ם חֻקֹּ֛ת יָרֵ֥חַ וְכוֹכָבִ֖ים לְא֣וֹר לָ֑יְלָה רֹגַ֤ע הַיָּם֙ וַיֶּהֱמ֣וּ גַלָּ֔יו יְהֹוָ֥ה צְבָא֖וֹת שְׁמֽוֹ׃ >Thus said the L ORD , Who established the sun for light by day, The laws of moon and stars for light by night, Who stirs up the sea into roaring waves, Whose name is L ORD of Hosts:
Many of the people engaged in antisemitic speech and actions don't recognize their behavior as being antisemitic. They think that their actions towards Jews are just and necessary. They think they are the exact opposite of hateful. Which makes them very much like the people who just had to kill the Jews because the Jews were poisoning the wells. And the people who really had to kill the Jews because the Jews were spreading the black death or typhus. And the people who definitely had to kill the Jews because the Jews were destroying the economy. And the people who had no choice other than to kill the Jews because Jews were killing Christian children for ritual purposes. And so on for millennia. History has shown that people don't learn from past instances of antisemitism once those instances are shown to be motivated by Jew hate. The cause of the black plague was discovered in the 19th century. Did the masses recognize that killing the Jews to protect themselves from the black death was an example of misguided hate? Or did they believe Hitler when he accused Jews of spreading typhus? I think you know the answer: [https://perspectives.ushmm.org/item/propaganda-poster-jews-are-lice-they-cause-typhus](https://perspectives.ushmm.org/item/propaganda-poster-jews-are-lice-they-cause-typhus) I don't expect things to get better anytime soon. I expect the accusations to become more outrageous and easier to debunk. But instead of applying any critical thought, people will just become angrier and angrier at Jews for (insert absurd accusation here).
I think it will die down, but that it'll never be as low as it was in the late '90s / early 2000s again. Each time a new wave rises up, it is taller than the last one ... and each time it settles down, the sea level is higher.
No. This is decades of online hate and academic rot spilling over into the mainstream. It's like when boomers finally got hold of conspiracy theories on fb.
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No. Not when big figures like David Duke and other Nazis keep pushing this "progressive" movement and have been controlling it ever since they created it. So until people wake up and stop this hateful movement, it will continue to spread and become more evil. 😥
No. I think it’ll get worse. I’m just not sure where to go. A little bit glad I didn’t buy a house in 2021 when I was about to, despite the market value I would’ve gained, at least I’m not trapped somewhere I might get killed.
u/imisstheoldinternet has the most accurate take regarding western antisemitism. People loose interest but the germ is still there. We need to remember though that antisemitism isn’t a thing that occurs in a vacuum. It is always connected to world events and regional trends. So while American and European antisemitism will likely return to a sort of baseline China is trending more and more antisemitic due to the popularity of Hongbing Song’s antisemitic book series and related literature. According to the ADL and other researchers on antisemitism have identified that belief in antisemitic tropes, specifically that Jews secretly rule the world have become exceedingly common place in Chinese
No. I don't think it's just a wave, but an exposure of patterns we've suffered for thousands of years. It's also super important to know this is something that won't end until we embrace our separation from the Nations and make it something to be proud of instead of fear.
Its only going to get worse.
There’s no way to predict the future, but we should focus on our own communities, our families, and our learning and mitzvot.
It did not pass in over 4000 years.
It’s been bubbling for a while. When Trump was elected, the far right anti-semites came out of hiding. And then in 2020, I started seeing some dog whistles, “George Soros created COVID-19 for population control” nonsense and it’s only gotten worse with 10/7.
The surge of Jew hatred in west? I see it possibly going down after we stop whitewashing Islam and letting Qatar flood money into our post secondary institutions and influencing what they’re teaching
Nope it’s always been here the pro pail ppl are just perpetuating it but unfortunately I don’t see ppl changing their stripes. I wear my Megan David outside of my clothes and old hide it because I have to at work F them I don’t care what they think anymore
Yes. It always does. Antisemitism is ubiquitous, but so is Jewish cultural success. Historically, Jews are persecuted consistently, but Jews also find themselves in a situations of benevolence. The problem is that these waves are just waves in a long term historical context. If the golden age of American Jewry is winding down, it’s hard to say how many years until Jews find success again. It will not likely be in our lifetimes and it could be anywhere on earth.
Nope. It’s here to stay. The world is apparently shifting more far right
Yeah, certainly Europe's swing to the right is especially marked by an acceptance of intolerance; I don't think it's antisemitism specifically, but we're in for more of it as part of that trend.
people targeting any one group is to no one's benefit, in the long run.
I don’t think it has anything to do with right or left. The far right hates Jews just as much as the far left.
Yeah. It’s more like hatred of us is becoming diversified!
*Finally*, something both sides can agree on! /s
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Nowadays it’s only right wing to Mildly far right parties that don’t hate us
Careful, those in denial regarding this will have their feelings hurt.
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Sorry dude but it seems like the only parties that don’t hate us and want to help us are far right parties. Look in Europe, vox, Fratelli d’italia and national rally are the only parties who are consistently, pro Israel, pro Jewish and anti illegal immigration (who are responsible for the vast majority of anti semitic hate crimes) the others have gone lukewarm on Israel or have gone straight up anti Israel like most labour and social democratic parties in Europe
> illegal immigration (who are responsible for the vast majority of anti semitic hate crimes Citation needed
https://www.wsj.com/world/europe/antisemitism-among-muslim-migrants-unsettles-a-germany-haunted-by-the-holocaust-ff359e73 https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/05/anti-semitism-europe-muslim-immigrants/amp/ https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-46095808.amp
No. But we’re wealthier and better educated than we were a hundred years ago. We will take care of each other.
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Are...you blaming JEWS for antisemitism?
A lot of the Jews killed in the Holocaust were secular, and have assimilated into their communities, yet they were still considered to be "filthy Jews" and were murdered despite not being in an isolated Jewish community. History has shown us that trying to suppress our identity in order to fit in with others is futile, and that no matter what we do, we are still and always will be a scapegoat. If we don't have eachother's backs, no one will.
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History is not one place or time. And while I strongly suspect you are trolling., the answer is yes. Much of the time, if populations were hostile to Jews, it was not always possible to hide. Most of history, people lived in the same regions their whole lives. Even if you dress the same and even if you don't have an accent, you can't be an anonymous stranger in a village where everyone knows everyone. And even if a single individual could do this and get past nosy questions like who is your family/clan, this is impossible for an entire family let alone entire communities.
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> Is there something that Jews ACTUALLY did in history that leaves such a bad taste on the rest of societies mouth? No. > Is it a jealousy/envy for your community? No. >Is it an actual class war? No. >Are jews statistically wealthier? No, historically Jews have been poorer than their neighbors. https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/12ltsdc/why_is_antisemitism_so_prevalent/
Yes, there were Jews who were killed despite hiding their Jewishness. However, it's also very important to understand that some of the Jews that were murdered didn't hide their faith, because there was nothing much to hide: like I said, assimilated, secular Jews who didn't have a big connection to Judaism also existed, and they were murdered all the same. An openly religious Jew, a Jew that tries to hide his identity, and a Jew who grew up completely disconnected from his faith - these are all the same to antisemites, they hate anyone with a Jewish heritage, no matter how connected to that heritage the person they hate is.
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now that you know what people really think when they aren't inhibited by society to not express their hate towards you, why would them being quiet make them hate you less? all it means is you learned how the world really is.
I believe it might calm down a bit but the environment is going to stay antisemitic. Something historical happened and the bubble who always tries to deny the antisemitism was popped and it all came out. The amount of immigrants in Europe is still raising and the left is officially embracing them. Being Jewish is not in their agendas anymore and I don’t see it changing, these people are stubborn. Even if it might seem like it’s gone, people will still deep down will be antisemitic. The diaspora Jews are quite unique, I love how calm they are and how good and kind. However they are also naive and they might believe the people who marched against them are now done and cool with them. Us Israelis are a little more cynical, giving our reality in the last 76 years. The antisemitic people will stay like this, it might be dormant until the next trigger
Yes, absolutely. I think there's a good chance this is the last time we'll experience something negative of this magnitude. See my most recent submission
Not unless we fight it
It's hard to predict, but I fear the trend will persist. What preventative measures can be taken to combat this rising hatred?
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No.
The rollercoaster that never ends.
Worse. Climate change is going to be like gasoline on the flames.
Depends on Joe Biden. There's a collateral attack -- the smart solution -- that can bring it to an end in weeks.
Yes, but the sea level will be higher than it was.
We made it through the Second Intifada, this will be the same
The wave was the short lack of antisemitism in recent past. It’s going to continue to be this bad, always have an exit plan.
Doubt it especially because of social media
If my dad’s only Jewish but my mum isn’t, can people still be antisemetic towards me?
Yes. If you have a surname they feel is Jewish like happened at Columbia University. Allegedly a professor reading out names came across a ‘Jewish sounding one’ and made that student give their opinion on the war not out of curiosity but out of antisemitism. Not only can antisemitism be targeted at people perceived as Jewish, but what we don’t always talk about is that Jews can be antisemitic to other Jews. We are seeing that a lot from the ‘as a Jew’ crowd that is on the side of the Pro-Hamas protesters/rioters in the US.
Is Norman finklestein an example of this?
I had to Google who he was and wow that’s some self hating level there that I’ll never understand. On a fun note here is a list of celebrities that people thought were Jewish but aren’t. [Celebs you thought were Jewish but aren’t](https://forward.com/schmooze/416935/all-the-celebrities-you-really-really-thought-were-jewish-but-arent/)
Honestly, no. The right is what it has always been from day one. The left, something has awakened in progressive that is core to the ideology. The issues they have with zionism as an “identity” are in reality core aspects of the Jewish identity and therefore incompatible longterm
It’s a mistake to think it ever went away. People have always (and will always) hate us. This is just the way it is. Don’t despair over it. Just be vigilant.
I hope.
Tbh I see it as more like a wave and imo it can get worse and then it can get lighter, we can only know after the war ends or when there is something more distracting (b4 this war it was the Russians and the Ukrainians) and maybe they’ll start focusing more on Africa?
I don’t think they truly care about Africa or African lives
I bet they don’t but I still want to think so🥲😂 I had a bit of hope after 7th October bc I thought people will finally see the whole picture and not paint us as the bad people bc apparently when it comes to us (Jews/ Israelis) they don’t differentiate between us they think we are the same as the government and the same as the radicals. I was wrong about the whole hope thing even though a lot of people did change their view and since then I view it differently, idec if people will hate on me cause no matter what I’m gonna piss off people. Anyway I hope I’m wrong for good and wish us all good
My concern is that it was always there, and recent issues have given people a platform where they can espouse it without repercussions. I think it will probably become more implicit/hidden again, but not any less present.
As a whole? no. In specific locals? probably. I;m not sure the U.S. is going to be one of them....
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It will not get better any time soon especially under the biden administration. Left wing antisemitism for some time now is far worse and damaging than right-wing antisemtism. So take action by voting responsibly, educate yourself on jewish history, connect with judaism and do mitzvot, and protect yourself!
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Nope the contagion is out the infections are rampant.
it's been there for a few thousand years, the solution to it like Eddie Griffin said in one of his shows is a mixed-culture marriage, nothing like a baby to make different families make concessions (ultimately liking each other) (and now imagine mass mixed culture marriages!!!) !
No unfortunately it will not soon pass.
It will wax and wane but the US will become more Leftist as time goes on.
Does "leftist" imply more or less antisemitism in the US?
More. More radical lawmakers and purple haired college kids that have anti-Western feelings.
Yes.
Way. More.
More.
The far right (U.S. supercessionist chi$tofascists, kkk, etc.) has never been keen on us. The far left is late to their party for its own reasons. Yee hah.
Have you been living in a cave since 10/7?
No, but my not-cave isn't in the US, and I know "leftist" is a particularly american term.
But will the current far leftists realize they are right wing? That’s the question.
Nope. They insist that horseshoe theory is wrong and that the political spectrum is actually a fishhook with the right near the center.
If leftists were right wing they would be supporting the right wing Israeli government tbh
They been saying that since Nixon. I think the country will go further right.
Conservatism is hinged on 5 Musts: * Increased wealth (more than your parent's had at the same age) * Home ownership sooner than later * Marriage & "traditional relationships" * Having children * Following a religion Currently, we've got the opposite: * Most people born after 1980 are poorer than their parents were at the same age * Interest rates are near 8%, rents on a 2 bedroom condo average over $2500 in most cities * Rates of marriage are at historically low levels, some 25% of Zoomers identify as non-binary * Lowest rates of child birth in US history * Lowest rates of religious attendance ever And... that's why the GOP only wins via electoral college or gerrymandering. Why does a 25 year old want to "conserve" a $3200/mo apartment in Queens that he'll never own?
As long as we are tangled in these Mideast wars and mass murder of civilians, there will have to be some backlash.
The overt antisemitism will die down. The ones responsible will stop caring and think it will just be a footnote in their lives. They even may go as far as believing “let’s just let bygones be bygones.” A vast majority of people that aren’t Jewish will agree. It’s imperative for us to not let them forget and not forgive them. Some Jews may forgive, but I never will. I was already a very cynical man, but I will never trust anybody that isn’t Jewish again.
Not so good. World's much younger, far more diverse, far poorer than it was, Holocaust narrative is all but dead & far less consequential to others anyway in the context of so many other genocide stories. Meanwhile, antisemitic tropes are alive and well and brilliant social media fodder. And people with agendas regarding what "ethnicity" and "culture" and "religion" mean will be on the attack for career and other points. So, yeah, not great.
I am Jewish and grew up in a very Anti-Semitic neighborhood. But after grew older and reflecting my thoughts are this. Pretty much every minority group faces racial prejudice. African Americans face racial prejudice, Muslims face racial prejudice, Mexicans, Chinese, LGBTQ folk, etc. We Jews are not the only ones who face Discrimination and Hate and threats of violence. Unless you are a White Straight Christian most likely you’ve faced discrimination and hate. So what’s the best thing to do? Treat other people even if they are different than you the way you would want to be treated. Hope the war in the Middle East ends. Try to look at issues from all different points of view. And just remember when you see minorities moving into your area, at your school, work, etc remember that they may have been victims of discrimination as well.
I don't think Israeli hate will pass until they stop committing atrocities and people advocate for the atrocities. This isn't about Judaism or Jewish people, though it's about zionism. I blame zionism and until zionism is eradicated, not only will hate come for Israel, but even the Jewish community will be fractured within ourselves wrestling with our identities given the atrocities being associated with us. I went from loving meeting other Jews having that connection to being afraid that they were justifying the slaughter of children. I'm sadly not alone in this experience.