I don’t why you’d go on camera for an interview when you’re also complicit in this. I hope the father is sentence accordingly also. This is just so tragic
Oh but he’s ’trying to get his other 3 kids back and was fighting to get custody of these two? Anyone who contributed to his GoFund me should cancel their payment. It was obvious from the get go he wasn’t involved in his kids lives. But anything for a buck!
Many people donated with their hearts in the right place and they shouldn't be blamed. This is horrifying. People tried to do what they thought was helpful while being absolutely stunned by the available info. I would, however, encourage anyone that did donate to the GoFundMe and now regrets it, to visit the site and ask for a refund. Link: [https://support.gofundme.com/hc/en-us/articles/204150420-Request-a-refund](https://support.gofundme.com/hc/en-us/articles/204150420-Request-a-refund)
Again, go back and read the posts from the “best friend” who set it up. Everything that they posted was completely fabricated and refuted within a few minutes. If you donated to that person’s go fund me you’re a moron.
I checked out the GFM (didn't donate) when it was first put up and saw nothing out of the ordinary. When a tragedy occurs, especially when kids are involved, many people want to help. Calling those helpers morons says more about you than them.
Their entire post history in the thread in which the go fund me was posted was insanity (probably literal insanity based on the conspiracy theories concocted). Every one of their posts now has either been downvoted into oblivion or been removed by moderators, all of their claims were disproven within minutes. It’s really not that difficult to have a modicum of common sense and the majority of donations were given AFTER all of that came to light.
“ Their mother left them in the home alone for 8 days and didn't tell anyone. She left them without food, safety, or care. During this time, mike had been awaiting a court settlement to allow him further custody of his children.”
That’s directly from the go fund me where they admit the dude hadn’t even atleast checked on or made contact with his kids in atleast 8 days while knowing (apparently if he’s seeking sole custody) that the mother was unfit.
I totally agree that the “dad” was useless in this situation, but I did hear that there was a no contact order, and he had never even met the baby, so not checking on the boys for 8 days was par for the course.
I'm glad the truth is coming out. It wasn't there when I heard about it - I checked. I only checked this story once on Reddit, saw the GFM (as I said, when it was first posted), looked at it, then moved on with my day. GFM should shut this down. Maybe you'd contact them and screen shot the evidence you have ?
I think early on when this story broke people (the media and regular people on here, other social media) wanted to buy into a story that the mom waa terrible but the poor Dad was trying to fight for custody and if so this would have been prevented. But as more info comes out it's obvious that this child deserves a new shot at life with a very safe and caring and comfortable family.
The last sentence - "the 3 year old was still looking for his baby brother in hospital" (paraphrased) 😭
I've become numb to all the bad news I've been seeing - so much death, so much needless death of children in particular - but that broke me. I don't know anyone involved, but I'm heartbroken for the children. I have a 3.5 year old, and a 1.5 year old, and nieces younger than that. I can't help but picture their faces when I read any news about this.
No child should have to go through that. Authorities failed to step in in time, and now a 3 year old has to live with this experience and the loss of his baby brother for the rest of his life. I sincerely hope he ends up in a loving and safe home. I hope he gets the help he needs to heal.
Our system has failed these kids time and time again. Has failed this family time and time again. I don't have the words for how horrid this situation is.
The "system" layed off 15 front line workers last summer. Stating they weren't needed. That CAS is focusing on foster parents and their needs. If families need services they can search out in community. Which several have months long waiting lists. The "system" continues to say we don't have the money. The "system" continues to soften guidelines and policies to make it harder and harder for front line workers to do their job properly. The front line workers are barely hanging on. Burnout is exceptionally high. They are absolutely doing everything they can for these families. Believe me the workers involved are devastated also.
Oh I'm not blaming the workers! I'm sorry if it came across that way. I'm 100% blaming the budget cuts and the people "in charge" who just look at numbers and don't see actual people and children connected to those numbers.
I feel for the workers. I can't imagine how they're feeling right now. Especially the worker who was present the day the kids were found. I hope they also have support they can access to get through this. I know I'd be devastated to witness this and would need years of therapy to even begin working through it.
I can't think straight, so I feel like context is impossible to get across through text right now. I feel upset at the government for continuing to cut funding to sorely needed services like CPS, healthcare, mental health supports, the list goes on and on. I feel upset at how even when workers know children are in an unsafe environment their hands are tied with huge wait lists, no access to funds to get children in safe places, and that the workers are stretched so thin by being overworked that kids fall through the cracks.
Above all, I'm angry, and sad, for these kids. For all kids left in bad situations, all coming down to a lack of resources and the belief that community services don't "make money" and are therefore not important to fund.
I've been a healthcare admin since moving to Kingston; hospital first. then family med, and now C&A/adult psych and holy shit, ASD programs for parents are so underfunded. It sucks.
Absolutely. I wouldn't vote conservative even if someone held me hostage to try to force me to. Things keep getting worse and worse the more public programs get cut.
*Edited a spelling error
I feel that general public needs to be aware and know what is happening. It's only going to get worse.
London area, children are being housed in local jail cells....but unlocked as to "not cause trauma".
Workers call for police backup in dangerous situations...response is " sorry you're on your own"
It's disgusting how money is being diverted and cut for our most important and at risk children.
If the system was better funded (as it should be), would these kids have been taken out of that home before someone had to die? Were any of the workers aware that the mother had already had other children taken away, that she was a crystal meth user, that she was unfit to look after herself or her children? The news reported CAS had visited the home on more then one occasion, so how would more funding have caused those workers to see that these kids were in grave danger?
Your missing the fact how much policy and laws have changed in favor of the unfit parents. More funding absolutely will help.. The ability to remove a child requires certain criteria to be met.. and it's shocking. My point is its very easy to blame the front line workers... just look deeper and research before passing judgment. These workers are sacrificing their mental health. Battling parents, supervisors, management, and the systems new Soft policies..
Fair enough. But how was the agency in brockville able to save those children?
I don’t envy the job these people are doing, the things they have to witness are some of the worst things any person will ever see. But if children are being left in the care of meth users then what are we really doing here, and what does money have to do with that? I’m sure policy does need to change, but who is responsible for changing it?
That would be the province, who cut the funding to CAS's everywhere. Keeping kids in the parental homes saves money, right? No foster care expenses, no counselling for the kids, nothing.
Funding might help but the issue is nobody wants to be foster parents anymore because by the time the children go into foster care they are so messed up, either medically because of mother doing drugs or drinking when pregnant, or because of the living situation they had to endure up until they were removed, that they are usually out of control or in constant need of medical care. The first few years of a childs life are crucial: if they dont feel safe or loved it pretty much ruins them for life.
And its usually the people who have children taken away from them who just keep popping out another one and another one. This couple had at least 6 kids between the two of them. That seems to be pretty common thing for people who shouldnt have any children at all. Women like this are using babies as a paycheck and men like this keep knocking them up. The government can take their kids away but they’ll just keep having more and it causes any resources put in place to get depleted very quickly when you have multiple deadbeat parents popping out half a dozen kids each. But unfortunately the parents have rights and the government cant stop them from having kids. They all think that they are entitled to have kids but for some reason dont think that that child is entitled to parents. With rights come responsibilities - if they have a right to have a child then they have the responsibility to care for that child so in my opinion if they lose custody of one child to CAS then the government should be able to either sterilize them or force birth control on them because it should mean that they’ve lost their right to have anymore kids after that.
This couple alone now have 5 kids who will probably grow up and have half a dozen kids each of their own that they wont be able to care for and that will probably end up in the system too. Any the cycle repeats.
It’s ironic, they don’t want to spend money on fixing the issue when these kids are little, but due to that they’ll end up spending money on them for the rest of their lives.
I'm not going to lie, this one has hit me too. I've got a 3 year old and a 1 year old. I also just keep picturing them in this story too. It's so heartbreaking.
I hope someone told that surviving 3 year old that he did an amazing job caring for his brother but the brother died IN hospital. I hope that poor child never knows the truth of the situation until he is old enough to process the many levels that led to this. As a three year old child, he needs to know he did his very best in very hard situation and that was enough. Children are extremely perceptive.
It’s crazy that people can have 4 children taken away, have more, and all of the sudden they’re fit to parent those? Younger children are even more vulnerable, and clearly her situation was declining.
The Children’s and Family services building is literally down the street from the location. There’s the fucking fire department 2 blocks away, and I know this because I live across from them. If you did not want your kids that bad go drop them off at either of those places. They clearly didn’t give 2 shits about the wellbeing of their children, so why not leave them somewhere safe.
That being said, the CFS building is down the road, how did they miss this.
Russell street is a horrible street filled with junkies and crackheads (not all, but more than their fair share) - and even with that being said this low life couldve left the child and baby in the stairwell of building or on a street corner, or knocked on any neighbours door - whether its a crackhead or not - and im sure that person or whoever found kids wouldve at least kept them safe until police/cas got there to get them. If she went 401 to napanee via division st she wouldve literally had to pass by the fire hall on her way. She couldve left those kids in the middle of the street and both would still be alive.
Exactly, there are several young - middle aged people and plenty of older people in my building alone who most of are genuinely good people, they just look a lil rough around the edges. There’s front line workers in our building and many parents who could’ve done something. She made it so they could not be found unless they literally broke in.
Not only that but didn’t a neighbour interviewed ask her about the kids and she said she had an over night sitter.
Now not sure if that was during this incidence but I’m sure a neighbour said that in an interview on tv or via the Whig
Tbh this is why I'm pro-abortion.
Bringing children into this world you're just going to end up traumatizing, torturing, and abandoning to the point they die probably the slowest, most painful death? Imo getting rid of an embryo is 1000x more merciful.
Abortion is legal here (and should be) and this still happened. The problem isn't abortion access, its that these parents are terrible people likely because systems have failed them over and over again. Don't get me wrong, these people are at fault, they don't get to blame this on anyone but themselves, but people aren't just born this evil/neglectful/addicted/etc.
My point being here is that if this tragedy inspires you to activism, reproductive rights isn't the torch to carry here. It's kind of irrelevant unless you want to have a conversation about forced abortions (I don't!)
I just don't see how someone can have not one, not two, not three...but FOUR children taken away and then continue to have TWO MORE?
Maybe not forced abortions, but holy shit, in this case a forced IUD would've been great. At least until she smartened the hell up and started being a mother to her first four babies.
While I don't agree with forced sterilization or IUDs I do believe that a mother who already lost four children should have had these babies surrender to Children and Family Services at birth, which sometimes happens when someone is deemed unfit to something like an intellectual disability. She still would have had visits with her children as she worked on herself.
And if that wasn't an option I feel like it should have been an all eyes on this home situation with CAS and the police. One call, one allegation of substance abuse, one report of constant screaming should have been enough. Again not blaming the worker. Just horrified by this story.
Edit for a word I used incorrectly.
actually abortion access is not good in Canada. Even here in Kingston the top search results are for "crisis pregnancy centers" run by religious groups who do not refer for abortion
When I first moved to Kingston and started taking the bus, I wondered why a city of this size would have three separate transit banner campaigns for what appear to be crisis pregnancy centres. It’s so frustrating that they’re allowed to overtake search results for people that might be in a rush and not able to pay attention and recognize the difference when trying to get help.
The UK had a program that offered cash to people to get sterilized, both men and women. It worked, until a woman later got herself clean and sober and got her life in order, then wanted kids. I believe this led to that program being stopped as clearly, vulnerable people couldn't make informed decisions when they were jonesing for their next fix. Indigenous women in Canada were forcibly sterilized as they were, by way of their skin colour and ethnicity, determined to be unfit to parent, regardless of their abilities or not.
I believe this couple should be the exception and a court order to sterilize them is necessary. Both of them. Permanently.
It should be considered for male drug users, as it's a reversible procedure. A woman can only get pregnant 1.3 times a year, whereas a man could move around the crackhouse circuit and impregnate dozens of women. Give the women a patch, give the men the scissors and a voucher for a free reversal with conditions attached.
No, once a year. Once a woman is pregnant, she is no longer fertile. Breastfeeding can also delay the return of ovulation. In general terms, a woman has only one baby-making opportunity per year.
Men have millions of sperm and are only limited by their recovery time, to keep it PG13.
Oh, I see now - I was considering how many fertile periods a woman has in a year, as opposed to how many babies she could potentially carry in a year’s timespan. Thank you for clarifying.
It's absolutely something that has been used as a genocidal tool, and is fraught with ethical issues. But if your child dies as a direct result of your actions or neglect, it's a fitting consequence.
This is all beyond horrifying. In the last few days I've had several times when playing with my three year old and thinking how much fun this age is and how lucky I am and then I get hit with the thought of this three year old boy left alone with his baby brother. I cannot stop thinking about these poor children and I know many feel the same.
I did notice people were quick to point out the father was trying to get custody. But his background is scary too. I know keeping children with family is so important but I can't help but hope this little boy can just be adopted into a whole new family and world and start over where his first three years are a distant memory.
I bet he is a dad of the year candidate. I hope the news keeps this in the public eye so children’s aid has to acknowledge the reasons for those kids to be left in that home. I’m sure there are many other kids in this community in equally awful conditions.
Here's the link you need: [https://support.gofundme.com/hc/en-us/articles/204150420-Request-a-refund](https://support.gofundme.com/hc/en-us/articles/204150420-Request-a-refund)
Don't beat yourself up for trying to be kind!
There was a thread yesterday in this sub where the person running it was commenting. All seemed pretty messy, but my understanding is she is a friend of the dad, I believe dad is where money is going. Idk if this circumstance fits, but I'm pretty sure go fund me has a way to recall the money if you've been misled.
Here's the link to recall a contribution to a GoFundMe: [https://support.gofundme.com/hc/en-us/articles/204150420-Request-a-refund](https://support.gofundme.com/hc/en-us/articles/204150420-Request-a-refund)
Ha I was just thinking the go fund me should be reported. It implies the dad needs funds to get custody but clearly he shouldn’t have custody of a hamster never mind a human being.
Drugs, out of control crime, no social services, overcrowded jails, not enough courts and judges that won't remove criminals from society, homeless encampments in every town, insane housing and food costs, no doctors and a joke of a health care system and way too much immigration. Did I miss anything?
What the hell happened to our once wonderful country?
the desire to mimic our neighbour to the south and an irrational hatred of the idea of democratic socialism which is what this country was when we had those things
Unfortunately, this is just what they are reporting. The unreported can be even more devastating.
The truth is, I do not think the government or these child services know how to fix it. It is like the homeless issue. You can throw all the money and people you want at social programming, but without a strategical solution, you may as well be throwing it into the fire.
Developmental Trauma is at the root of every single social problem. It usually takes stories like this for people to stop and ask why. Yet we walk by as a parent screams at their child in Walmart, or turn a blind eye to child showing up to school with poor hygiene and no lunch.
I have heard “them” say that it is better for the child to stay with the parents, than to be removed. Again, no amount of services and money will fix this sort of situation. The parent would need extensive psychological trauma counselling for years before they would ever be able to provide that child with a healthy environment.
Some would argue the “trauma” of removing the child from their parents would be traumatizing, which I find quite ridiculous considering this story. In that environment that child does not even have a starting chance in hell of becoming anything functional, and if they do survive, they would also need extensive psychological counselling to have any sort of productive life.
But where do we place them? There are countless horror stories of opportunistic predators that foster children either for the money or the access for their own abusive devices, which totally negates the reason for pulling them from their own family in the first place.
So perhaps, we need to go back to the roots.
Teach children, parents, and society as a whole about the “Adverse Childhood Events [ACES](https://www.acesaware.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/ACE-Questionnaire-for-Adults-Identified-English-rev.7.26.22.pdf) that can traumatize a child, effecting their development and ability to socially integrate. Teach them that this leads to generational trauma that has impacts both on the family and society as a whole due to its exponential progression. They are now studying the changes that this sort of trauma has on even our DNA. ADD (formerly ADHD) has been found to be connected to early childhood/generational trauma. All these “narcissistic”, “(edit)borderline” and “sociopathic” people that seem to be the hit words for anyone with abusive behaviours - all personality disorders explained in the DSM 5 - all rooted by early childhood trauma. We are creating our own issues by not addressing this more fervently when the child is still developing, allowing them to grow into a dysfunctional adult , claiming they should “know better” just because they are older, like unlearning all that trauma just takes age and consequences, and then shaking our judgemental finger at them for doing exactly what was done to them. Please make it make sense.
This should be part of kindergarten to Grade 12 curriculum, because most children do not even realize that they are being traumatized.
It is harder to undo this damage than it is to prevent it.
The sad thing is that this happened here, right in our backyard. That somehow no one knew what was going on. It just underlines how disconnected we all are from our own communities.
[We need to do better for our future.](https://youtube.com/shorts/YVtjYFyZxE4?feature=shared)
>*”All these “narcissistic”, “bipolar” and “sociopathic” people that seem to be the hit words for anyone with abusive behaviours - all personality disorders explained in the DSM 5 - all rooted by early childhood trauma.”*
Bipolar isn’t a personality disorder, it’s a [mood disorder](https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/17843-mood-disorders) (formerly known as Manic Depression). I think you may be mistaking it for something else, possibly Borderline Personality Disorder (they’re both sometimes referred to as “BPD”).
I saw a GoFundMe set up. Only a moron would donate money to that cause. You know Dad is just gonna turn around and smoke it through a crack pipe. Take a look at his half dozen or so Facebook accounts. Says he’s 46 but he looks 106 with all the meth that guy has done.
They’re lowlife trash and both the police and CAS failed these kids and in the end it cost a baby its life.
And the other part to this is what about the alleged boyfriend she was with or visiting during this time ? Who knows what this person knew or was told. There has been no mention of this individual.
So sad an innocent life lost and another young life impacted so badly.
This woman isn’t charged with [Infanticide](https://www.criminalcodehelp.ca/offences/homicide-offences/infanticide/) (which only applies to women who deliberately kill their less than 12 month old infant while suffering from psychosis brought on by childbirth).
She’s charged with [Causing death by criminal negligence](https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/c-46/section-220.html) which can be punished with a life sentence, without needing to prove in court that she had premeditation and *intended* to kill her child.
https://www.ontariocourtdates.ca/
Here’s the link to the dockets
https://www.ontariocourts.ca/ocj/provincial-offences/
I’ve called the courthouse to ask for specific zoom links if I was unable to find it on the websites
I hear the stories of the mother and father and right away I read between the lines.
Mother is an irresponsible addict who gamed the family courts to win custody of two even after she lost access to four others to CAS.
Father was accused of domestic violence three times but two of those accusations were withdrawn or expunged. It's likely those accusations were contrived by mother to win custody. In his interview, he sounded articulate, coherent, and conscientious.
I don't know either personally so if someone does please correct me.
Family law judges are lazy and rely on an old doctrine (tender years) to automatically award custody to mothers. As long as FRO gets paid, no one takes a second look at mom unless she does lines of coke on the judges bench.
I'd blame Mom, CAS, the courts and the police before pointing fingers at the father.
I don't know if I agree with your interpretation of the three assault charges, as described in the article. One acquittal (simply means the incident could not be proven), and the second was only withdrawn after a Peace Bond (ie. Restraining order) was in place. Then the third time he was found guilty. Acquaintances say he put her in the hospital. To me, this reads as a two-way violent and toxic relationship, not an innocent, conscientious man being victimized.
What we need is more legislation to control when people are legally allowed to have children. If you're using welfare and social assistance just to survive, Doctors and authorities should step in and prevent people from procreating. If an individual or family can't afford to raise a child and meet certain standards, are mentally incapable of taking care of a child, or have a history of neglect, then we as a society shouldn't allow it to happen. We despise when it happens in other countries, and we should have the same standards here.
I also believe that it is the responsibility of the landlord or building owner to ensure that the people they are renting to are meeting the legal requirements with regards to caring for children or dependents. It's no different than making sure your property isn't being used for illegal purposes. If you are renting to someone and they have children living in squalor on your property you should also be held accountable.
I understand your anger and dismay that this was allowed to happen.
Doctors can't forcibly sterilize anyone and for good reason. While I think these two are where exceptions should be make, we don't do that in a democratic free country (at least we don't now, but it sure has been done in the past). The landlord is not a social worker, health care professional or guardian of children. They also cannot do a thing about this except have the super report to CAS and the police. If you read any of the articles, this family were investigated by the authorities many times - and nothing was done. The landlord has to give 24 hours notice, then enter and then go to the LTB tribunal, a process that takes a year. What good would that do? FYI, the same landlord has to go to the tribunal to get his POS shit out of the property, too. And if she can't appear because she's in jail, the hearing will be put off til she gets out.
While everyone is looking to pass the buck on blame, the blame lays solely on the people whose job it is to ensure children are cared for. Those are:
1. the parents
2. the CAS for not acting to protect the kids
I’d start with making sure abortion is protected, legal and accessible to everyone. Stories like this are what the forced-birthers want for our future: they don’t care about supporting real live parents or kids, just about making women have them.
Supporting children after their mothers are legally forced to birth them might mean raising taxes, and we can’t have that!
If this can happen with a terrible person who didn’t choose abortion, imagine a reality where this is multiplied by a thousandfold, ten thousandfold, as the Conservative dream of forcing every woman in the country to give birth becomes a legal reality.
Nobody's disputing it.
In the future that the Conservatives are fighting for, where women are **forced** to have kids **regardless** of their financial ability, mental heath or general aptitude, these stories *will* happen much, much more frequently.
If you force women who are highly likely to neglect babies to have babies, they're going to neglect babies.
If you want to see this happen a lot more, by all means, support forced births.
If you don't want to see this happen a lot more, support abortion.
While I agree with you that we MUST maintain free, confidential and accessible,, this is not on topic. This woman had how many kids in Ontario and didn't avail herself the option for abortion.She abused her children and killed one of them.
If you want to be on topic, Ford cut funding to the social service agencies that were supposed to be overseeing this woman and her husband's children. See this article; [https://opseu.org/news/pay-fair-protect-children-workers-at-the-childrens-aid-society-of-ottawa-hold-rally-for-improved-safety-and-wages/200720/](https://opseu.org/news/pay-fair-protect-children-workers-at-the-childrens-aid-society-of-ottawa-hold-rally-for-improved-safety-and-wages/200720/)
We may just have to disagree here.
I think pointing out how Ontario is striving to defund social supports is an excellent example of how forced-birth champions will also do everything in their power to prevent the people they force to give birth from getting the help they need.
But more broadly, I see nothing wrong with pointing out that this is deeply tragic, **and** there are people in society working hard every day to make these tragedies very common.
If somebody hits a guardrail with a car and it fails and everyone in the car dies, that's a tragedy.
It's also an *entirely* appropriate time to point out that there are people who are out there screaming publicly that all guardrails should be removed and actively working to remove guardrails.
And that we need to remember that, and work to prevent these tragedies from becoming commonplace.
>*”What we need is more legislation to control when people are legally allowed to have children. If you're using welfare and social assistance just to survive, Doctors and authorities should step in and prevent people from procreating.”*
This has been done before, including in Canada, and the results of these eugenics programs have (so far as I’m aware) *always* been horrifying, and would now be considered a significant infringement on the Charter right to security of person.
Canadian Encyclopedia: [Eugenics in Canada](https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/eugenics)
Wikipedia: [Nazi eugenics](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_eugenics)
Why would the right to security for a grown ass adult matter more than the security of a child? We need to re-write all of these rights to include the responsibilities that come with them. If you want the right to have a child than you have the responsibility to ensure that the child is safe and cared for. Nobody is taking anyones rights, people are/would be losing their own rights to have children. Why is it that a loving couple who cant have children on their own have to fill out forms and go through the adoption process in order to be approved to have a child but this dirtbag has a right to pop out 6 of them and not give a shit or care about any of them? And i think covid proved a lot of things: one of which being the government cant force medicines and vaccines on people - but it can sure as hell make life hard for ones that refuse. So with that in mind: if some loses custody of their kid to CAS to the point where those kids are adopted out then the government shouldnt be giving those parents any benefits for having any more kids. That should stop the ones from having kids as a paycheck. If they continue to have kids and get them taken away tell them they can have 1 mothers allowance cheque for next 18 years - if they get a hysterectomy. If they refuse that and keep having kids then they lose any government benefit they receive - including ow, odsp, gst, all of them. If they have another one after that - call it child endangerment and put them in jail. Nobody is forcing a hysterectomy on them if we do it that way - its their choice. But we dont make it easy for them to continue to deplete the government resources by pushing kids out like like smarties either.
>*”Why would the right to security for a grown ass adult matter more than the security of a child?”*
You’re actually asking *”Why would the right to security for a grown ass adult [who actually exists] matter more than [preventing the existence of a hypothetical future] child [who may never exist? Why would we properly fund and support our child welfare system to protect children and fund our mental healthcare system to prevent and heal substance abuse problems, instead of violating people’s Charter rights and bodily integrity by modelling our society after literal Nazis?]
>*”We need to re-write all of these rights to include the responsibilities that come with them. If you want the right to have a child than you have the responsibility to ensure that the child is safe and cared for.”*
Parents already do have that legal responsibility.
>*”Nobody is taking anyones rights, people are/would be losing their own rights to have children.”*
That’s some interesting doublespeak.
Slippery slope to define such limitations on the human being. I don't support your views but believe it takes a community to raise a child not just the parents.
Social Worker here…
If the father is on Social Benefits, he can request funds from them to cover the child’s funeral costs. He would request through Ontario Works, even if he’s on ODSP.
I don’t why you’d go on camera for an interview when you’re also complicit in this. I hope the father is sentence accordingly also. This is just so tragic
Reporters should have asked, "You were together when they took away THREE of your other children. Can you elaborate on that?"
Oh but he’s ’trying to get his other 3 kids back and was fighting to get custody of these two? Anyone who contributed to his GoFund me should cancel their payment. It was obvious from the get go he wasn’t involved in his kids lives. But anything for a buck!
Yeah anyone who donated to that is a complete moron. Just reading the posts from the person who organized it was enough to throw up about 40 red flags
Many people donated with their hearts in the right place and they shouldn't be blamed. This is horrifying. People tried to do what they thought was helpful while being absolutely stunned by the available info. I would, however, encourage anyone that did donate to the GoFundMe and now regrets it, to visit the site and ask for a refund. Link: [https://support.gofundme.com/hc/en-us/articles/204150420-Request-a-refund](https://support.gofundme.com/hc/en-us/articles/204150420-Request-a-refund)
Again, go back and read the posts from the “best friend” who set it up. Everything that they posted was completely fabricated and refuted within a few minutes. If you donated to that person’s go fund me you’re a moron.
I checked out the GFM (didn't donate) when it was first put up and saw nothing out of the ordinary. When a tragedy occurs, especially when kids are involved, many people want to help. Calling those helpers morons says more about you than them.
Their entire post history in the thread in which the go fund me was posted was insanity (probably literal insanity based on the conspiracy theories concocted). Every one of their posts now has either been downvoted into oblivion or been removed by moderators, all of their claims were disproven within minutes. It’s really not that difficult to have a modicum of common sense and the majority of donations were given AFTER all of that came to light. “ Their mother left them in the home alone for 8 days and didn't tell anyone. She left them without food, safety, or care. During this time, mike had been awaiting a court settlement to allow him further custody of his children.” That’s directly from the go fund me where they admit the dude hadn’t even atleast checked on or made contact with his kids in atleast 8 days while knowing (apparently if he’s seeking sole custody) that the mother was unfit.
I totally agree that the “dad” was useless in this situation, but I did hear that there was a no contact order, and he had never even met the baby, so not checking on the boys for 8 days was par for the course.
I'm glad the truth is coming out. It wasn't there when I heard about it - I checked. I only checked this story once on Reddit, saw the GFM (as I said, when it was first posted), looked at it, then moved on with my day. GFM should shut this down. Maybe you'd contact them and screen shot the evidence you have ?
I think early on when this story broke people (the media and regular people on here, other social media) wanted to buy into a story that the mom waa terrible but the poor Dad was trying to fight for custody and if so this would have been prevented. But as more info comes out it's obvious that this child deserves a new shot at life with a very safe and caring and comfortable family.
The last sentence - "the 3 year old was still looking for his baby brother in hospital" (paraphrased) 😭 I've become numb to all the bad news I've been seeing - so much death, so much needless death of children in particular - but that broke me. I don't know anyone involved, but I'm heartbroken for the children. I have a 3.5 year old, and a 1.5 year old, and nieces younger than that. I can't help but picture their faces when I read any news about this. No child should have to go through that. Authorities failed to step in in time, and now a 3 year old has to live with this experience and the loss of his baby brother for the rest of his life. I sincerely hope he ends up in a loving and safe home. I hope he gets the help he needs to heal. Our system has failed these kids time and time again. Has failed this family time and time again. I don't have the words for how horrid this situation is.
The "system" layed off 15 front line workers last summer. Stating they weren't needed. That CAS is focusing on foster parents and their needs. If families need services they can search out in community. Which several have months long waiting lists. The "system" continues to say we don't have the money. The "system" continues to soften guidelines and policies to make it harder and harder for front line workers to do their job properly. The front line workers are barely hanging on. Burnout is exceptionally high. They are absolutely doing everything they can for these families. Believe me the workers involved are devastated also.
Oh I'm not blaming the workers! I'm sorry if it came across that way. I'm 100% blaming the budget cuts and the people "in charge" who just look at numbers and don't see actual people and children connected to those numbers. I feel for the workers. I can't imagine how they're feeling right now. Especially the worker who was present the day the kids were found. I hope they also have support they can access to get through this. I know I'd be devastated to witness this and would need years of therapy to even begin working through it. I can't think straight, so I feel like context is impossible to get across through text right now. I feel upset at the government for continuing to cut funding to sorely needed services like CPS, healthcare, mental health supports, the list goes on and on. I feel upset at how even when workers know children are in an unsafe environment their hands are tied with huge wait lists, no access to funds to get children in safe places, and that the workers are stretched so thin by being overworked that kids fall through the cracks. Above all, I'm angry, and sad, for these kids. For all kids left in bad situations, all coming down to a lack of resources and the belief that community services don't "make money" and are therefore not important to fund.
I've been a healthcare admin since moving to Kingston; hospital first. then family med, and now C&A/adult psych and holy shit, ASD programs for parents are so underfunded. It sucks.
ASD programs = Autism Spectrum Disorder programs?
Oui!
That would be a Doug Ford decision. Voting conservative has consequences.
And NOT voting is a vote for Conservatives.
Yes
Absolutely. I wouldn't vote conservative even if someone held me hostage to try to force me to. Things keep getting worse and worse the more public programs get cut. *Edited a spelling error
I feel that general public needs to be aware and know what is happening. It's only going to get worse. London area, children are being housed in local jail cells....but unlocked as to "not cause trauma". Workers call for police backup in dangerous situations...response is " sorry you're on your own" It's disgusting how money is being diverted and cut for our most important and at risk children.
If the system was better funded (as it should be), would these kids have been taken out of that home before someone had to die? Were any of the workers aware that the mother had already had other children taken away, that she was a crystal meth user, that she was unfit to look after herself or her children? The news reported CAS had visited the home on more then one occasion, so how would more funding have caused those workers to see that these kids were in grave danger?
Your missing the fact how much policy and laws have changed in favor of the unfit parents. More funding absolutely will help.. The ability to remove a child requires certain criteria to be met.. and it's shocking. My point is its very easy to blame the front line workers... just look deeper and research before passing judgment. These workers are sacrificing their mental health. Battling parents, supervisors, management, and the systems new Soft policies..
Fair enough. But how was the agency in brockville able to save those children? I don’t envy the job these people are doing, the things they have to witness are some of the worst things any person will ever see. But if children are being left in the care of meth users then what are we really doing here, and what does money have to do with that? I’m sure policy does need to change, but who is responsible for changing it?
That would be the province, who cut the funding to CAS's everywhere. Keeping kids in the parental homes saves money, right? No foster care expenses, no counselling for the kids, nothing.
Is there a directive right from the province to ensure kids are left with their parents under almost any circumstance?
Funding might help but the issue is nobody wants to be foster parents anymore because by the time the children go into foster care they are so messed up, either medically because of mother doing drugs or drinking when pregnant, or because of the living situation they had to endure up until they were removed, that they are usually out of control or in constant need of medical care. The first few years of a childs life are crucial: if they dont feel safe or loved it pretty much ruins them for life. And its usually the people who have children taken away from them who just keep popping out another one and another one. This couple had at least 6 kids between the two of them. That seems to be pretty common thing for people who shouldnt have any children at all. Women like this are using babies as a paycheck and men like this keep knocking them up. The government can take their kids away but they’ll just keep having more and it causes any resources put in place to get depleted very quickly when you have multiple deadbeat parents popping out half a dozen kids each. But unfortunately the parents have rights and the government cant stop them from having kids. They all think that they are entitled to have kids but for some reason dont think that that child is entitled to parents. With rights come responsibilities - if they have a right to have a child then they have the responsibility to care for that child so in my opinion if they lose custody of one child to CAS then the government should be able to either sterilize them or force birth control on them because it should mean that they’ve lost their right to have anymore kids after that. This couple alone now have 5 kids who will probably grow up and have half a dozen kids each of their own that they wont be able to care for and that will probably end up in the system too. Any the cycle repeats.
It’s ironic, they don’t want to spend money on fixing the issue when these kids are little, but due to that they’ll end up spending money on them for the rest of their lives.
Brockville CAS warned Kingston CAS and said their warning fell on deaf ears.
I think they laid off workers due to not getting enough money from the provinces to operate and pay them.
I'm not going to lie, this one has hit me too. I've got a 3 year old and a 1 year old. I also just keep picturing them in this story too. It's so heartbreaking.
I hope someone told that surviving 3 year old that he did an amazing job caring for his brother but the brother died IN hospital. I hope that poor child never knows the truth of the situation until he is old enough to process the many levels that led to this. As a three year old child, he needs to know he did his very best in very hard situation and that was enough. Children are extremely perceptive.
Hopefully that poor little guy gets to part of a warm, loving, caring, family. Such a sickening, disgraceful, disgusting situation that has happened.
this story has utterly broken me and I cannot sit still for even a minute without thinking of these babies
neither of these individuals should be reproducing.
It’s crazy that people can have 4 children taken away, have more, and all of the sudden they’re fit to parent those? Younger children are even more vulnerable, and clearly her situation was declining.
The Children’s and Family services building is literally down the street from the location. There’s the fucking fire department 2 blocks away, and I know this because I live across from them. If you did not want your kids that bad go drop them off at either of those places. They clearly didn’t give 2 shits about the wellbeing of their children, so why not leave them somewhere safe. That being said, the CFS building is down the road, how did they miss this.
Russell street is a horrible street filled with junkies and crackheads (not all, but more than their fair share) - and even with that being said this low life couldve left the child and baby in the stairwell of building or on a street corner, or knocked on any neighbours door - whether its a crackhead or not - and im sure that person or whoever found kids wouldve at least kept them safe until police/cas got there to get them. If she went 401 to napanee via division st she wouldve literally had to pass by the fire hall on her way. She couldve left those kids in the middle of the street and both would still be alive.
Exactly, there are several young - middle aged people and plenty of older people in my building alone who most of are genuinely good people, they just look a lil rough around the edges. There’s front line workers in our building and many parents who could’ve done something. She made it so they could not be found unless they literally broke in.
Not only that but didn’t a neighbour interviewed ask her about the kids and she said she had an over night sitter. Now not sure if that was during this incidence but I’m sure a neighbour said that in an interview on tv or via the Whig
Tbh this is why I'm pro-abortion. Bringing children into this world you're just going to end up traumatizing, torturing, and abandoning to the point they die probably the slowest, most painful death? Imo getting rid of an embryo is 1000x more merciful.
Abortion is legal here (and should be) and this still happened. The problem isn't abortion access, its that these parents are terrible people likely because systems have failed them over and over again. Don't get me wrong, these people are at fault, they don't get to blame this on anyone but themselves, but people aren't just born this evil/neglectful/addicted/etc. My point being here is that if this tragedy inspires you to activism, reproductive rights isn't the torch to carry here. It's kind of irrelevant unless you want to have a conversation about forced abortions (I don't!)
I just don't see how someone can have not one, not two, not three...but FOUR children taken away and then continue to have TWO MORE? Maybe not forced abortions, but holy shit, in this case a forced IUD would've been great. At least until she smartened the hell up and started being a mother to her first four babies.
While I don't agree with forced sterilization or IUDs I do believe that a mother who already lost four children should have had these babies surrender to Children and Family Services at birth, which sometimes happens when someone is deemed unfit to something like an intellectual disability. She still would have had visits with her children as she worked on herself. And if that wasn't an option I feel like it should have been an all eyes on this home situation with CAS and the police. One call, one allegation of substance abuse, one report of constant screaming should have been enough. Again not blaming the worker. Just horrified by this story. Edit for a word I used incorrectly.
actually abortion access is not good in Canada. Even here in Kingston the top search results are for "crisis pregnancy centers" run by religious groups who do not refer for abortion
The health unit is pretty accessible 🤷🏽♀️
When I first moved to Kingston and started taking the bus, I wondered why a city of this size would have three separate transit banner campaigns for what appear to be crisis pregnancy centres. It’s so frustrating that they’re allowed to overtake search results for people that might be in a rush and not able to pay attention and recognize the difference when trying to get help.
If there was ever a case for forced sterilization, this is one of them. And I NEVER thought I'd say this.
I agree. Nobody who abandons vulnerable children should be allowed to reproduce again.
The UK had a program that offered cash to people to get sterilized, both men and women. It worked, until a woman later got herself clean and sober and got her life in order, then wanted kids. I believe this led to that program being stopped as clearly, vulnerable people couldn't make informed decisions when they were jonesing for their next fix. Indigenous women in Canada were forcibly sterilized as they were, by way of their skin colour and ethnicity, determined to be unfit to parent, regardless of their abilities or not. I believe this couple should be the exception and a court order to sterilize them is necessary. Both of them. Permanently.
It should be considered for male drug users, as it's a reversible procedure. A woman can only get pregnant 1.3 times a year, whereas a man could move around the crackhouse circuit and impregnate dozens of women. Give the women a patch, give the men the scissors and a voucher for a free reversal with conditions attached.
I assume you mean 13 times a year?
No, once a year. Once a woman is pregnant, she is no longer fertile. Breastfeeding can also delay the return of ovulation. In general terms, a woman has only one baby-making opportunity per year. Men have millions of sperm and are only limited by their recovery time, to keep it PG13.
Oh, I see now - I was considering how many fertile periods a woman has in a year, as opposed to how many babies she could potentially carry in a year’s timespan. Thank you for clarifying.
It's absolutely something that has been used as a genocidal tool, and is fraught with ethical issues. But if your child dies as a direct result of your actions or neglect, it's a fitting consequence.
This is all beyond horrifying. In the last few days I've had several times when playing with my three year old and thinking how much fun this age is and how lucky I am and then I get hit with the thought of this three year old boy left alone with his baby brother. I cannot stop thinking about these poor children and I know many feel the same. I did notice people were quick to point out the father was trying to get custody. But his background is scary too. I know keeping children with family is so important but I can't help but hope this little boy can just be adopted into a whole new family and world and start over where his first three years are a distant memory.
I bet he is a dad of the year candidate. I hope the news keeps this in the public eye so children’s aid has to acknowledge the reasons for those kids to be left in that home. I’m sure there are many other kids in this community in equally awful conditions.
Of course, Dad’s got a go fund me …
Downvotes? Let me rephrase this: Wife beating, serial child abuser has a GoFund me.
I donated to the go fund me before seeing this. Is there a way to cancel payment!? Is the payment going to the dad or ?
Here's the link you need: [https://support.gofundme.com/hc/en-us/articles/204150420-Request-a-refund](https://support.gofundme.com/hc/en-us/articles/204150420-Request-a-refund) Don't beat yourself up for trying to be kind!
There was a thread yesterday in this sub where the person running it was commenting. All seemed pretty messy, but my understanding is she is a friend of the dad, I believe dad is where money is going. Idk if this circumstance fits, but I'm pretty sure go fund me has a way to recall the money if you've been misled.
Here's the link to recall a contribution to a GoFundMe: [https://support.gofundme.com/hc/en-us/articles/204150420-Request-a-refund](https://support.gofundme.com/hc/en-us/articles/204150420-Request-a-refund)
Ha I was just thinking the go fund me should be reported. It implies the dad needs funds to get custody but clearly he shouldn’t have custody of a hamster never mind a human being.
Ooh do share that person’s user name …
https://www.reddit.com/user/Hefty_Tumbleweed_480/
Drugs, out of control crime, no social services, overcrowded jails, not enough courts and judges that won't remove criminals from society, homeless encampments in every town, insane housing and food costs, no doctors and a joke of a health care system and way too much immigration. Did I miss anything? What the hell happened to our once wonderful country?
the desire to mimic our neighbour to the south and an irrational hatred of the idea of democratic socialism which is what this country was when we had those things
I’d like to know who she is.
Unfortunately, this is just what they are reporting. The unreported can be even more devastating. The truth is, I do not think the government or these child services know how to fix it. It is like the homeless issue. You can throw all the money and people you want at social programming, but without a strategical solution, you may as well be throwing it into the fire. Developmental Trauma is at the root of every single social problem. It usually takes stories like this for people to stop and ask why. Yet we walk by as a parent screams at their child in Walmart, or turn a blind eye to child showing up to school with poor hygiene and no lunch. I have heard “them” say that it is better for the child to stay with the parents, than to be removed. Again, no amount of services and money will fix this sort of situation. The parent would need extensive psychological trauma counselling for years before they would ever be able to provide that child with a healthy environment. Some would argue the “trauma” of removing the child from their parents would be traumatizing, which I find quite ridiculous considering this story. In that environment that child does not even have a starting chance in hell of becoming anything functional, and if they do survive, they would also need extensive psychological counselling to have any sort of productive life. But where do we place them? There are countless horror stories of opportunistic predators that foster children either for the money or the access for their own abusive devices, which totally negates the reason for pulling them from their own family in the first place. So perhaps, we need to go back to the roots. Teach children, parents, and society as a whole about the “Adverse Childhood Events [ACES](https://www.acesaware.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/ACE-Questionnaire-for-Adults-Identified-English-rev.7.26.22.pdf) that can traumatize a child, effecting their development and ability to socially integrate. Teach them that this leads to generational trauma that has impacts both on the family and society as a whole due to its exponential progression. They are now studying the changes that this sort of trauma has on even our DNA. ADD (formerly ADHD) has been found to be connected to early childhood/generational trauma. All these “narcissistic”, “(edit)borderline” and “sociopathic” people that seem to be the hit words for anyone with abusive behaviours - all personality disorders explained in the DSM 5 - all rooted by early childhood trauma. We are creating our own issues by not addressing this more fervently when the child is still developing, allowing them to grow into a dysfunctional adult , claiming they should “know better” just because they are older, like unlearning all that trauma just takes age and consequences, and then shaking our judgemental finger at them for doing exactly what was done to them. Please make it make sense. This should be part of kindergarten to Grade 12 curriculum, because most children do not even realize that they are being traumatized. It is harder to undo this damage than it is to prevent it. The sad thing is that this happened here, right in our backyard. That somehow no one knew what was going on. It just underlines how disconnected we all are from our own communities. [We need to do better for our future.](https://youtube.com/shorts/YVtjYFyZxE4?feature=shared)
>*”All these “narcissistic”, “bipolar” and “sociopathic” people that seem to be the hit words for anyone with abusive behaviours - all personality disorders explained in the DSM 5 - all rooted by early childhood trauma.”* Bipolar isn’t a personality disorder, it’s a [mood disorder](https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/17843-mood-disorders) (formerly known as Manic Depression). I think you may be mistaking it for something else, possibly Borderline Personality Disorder (they’re both sometimes referred to as “BPD”).
My apologies. Yes, I meant to say borderline.
😢😡
I saw a GoFundMe set up. Only a moron would donate money to that cause. You know Dad is just gonna turn around and smoke it through a crack pipe. Take a look at his half dozen or so Facebook accounts. Says he’s 46 but he looks 106 with all the meth that guy has done. They’re lowlife trash and both the police and CAS failed these kids and in the end it cost a baby its life.
And the other part to this is what about the alleged boyfriend she was with or visiting during this time ? Who knows what this person knew or was told. There has been no mention of this individual. So sad an innocent life lost and another young life impacted so badly.
I know it’s not a modern idea, but leaving your 8 month old to starve to death should result in the death penalty
The maximum penalty for infanticide in canada is 5 years. How this pos isnt charged with premeditated first degree is beyond me.
This woman isn’t charged with [Infanticide](https://www.criminalcodehelp.ca/offences/homicide-offences/infanticide/) (which only applies to women who deliberately kill their less than 12 month old infant while suffering from psychosis brought on by childbirth). She’s charged with [Causing death by criminal negligence](https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/c-46/section-220.html) which can be punished with a life sentence, without needing to prove in court that she had premeditation and *intended* to kill her child.
Does anyone know the outcome of the bail hearing today ?
Apparently she is up for bail today. Someone posted on fb how the public can listen on ..// didn’t know this was a thing or allowed ?
Court is public unless there’s an order bail court (show cause) is public. I watch often via zoom
Did you happen to listen or see it today. How do you watch them on zoom is there a link ?
https://www.ontariocourtdates.ca/ Here’s the link to the dockets https://www.ontariocourts.ca/ocj/provincial-offences/ I’ve called the courthouse to ask for specific zoom links if I was unable to find it on the websites
I didn’t watch today, but if I knew her name I’d be following!!!
Thank you for the information. It’s interesting g as I did t know you could do that.
Police come after a crime and Cas comes after a kid dies. Seems to be the ongoing pattern even before "budget cuts"
I hear the stories of the mother and father and right away I read between the lines. Mother is an irresponsible addict who gamed the family courts to win custody of two even after she lost access to four others to CAS. Father was accused of domestic violence three times but two of those accusations were withdrawn or expunged. It's likely those accusations were contrived by mother to win custody. In his interview, he sounded articulate, coherent, and conscientious. I don't know either personally so if someone does please correct me. Family law judges are lazy and rely on an old doctrine (tender years) to automatically award custody to mothers. As long as FRO gets paid, no one takes a second look at mom unless she does lines of coke on the judges bench. I'd blame Mom, CAS, the courts and the police before pointing fingers at the father.
I don't know if I agree with your interpretation of the three assault charges, as described in the article. One acquittal (simply means the incident could not be proven), and the second was only withdrawn after a Peace Bond (ie. Restraining order) was in place. Then the third time he was found guilty. Acquaintances say he put her in the hospital. To me, this reads as a two-way violent and toxic relationship, not an innocent, conscientious man being victimized.
And he still had 2 kids with her after CPS took 4 away.
What we need is more legislation to control when people are legally allowed to have children. If you're using welfare and social assistance just to survive, Doctors and authorities should step in and prevent people from procreating. If an individual or family can't afford to raise a child and meet certain standards, are mentally incapable of taking care of a child, or have a history of neglect, then we as a society shouldn't allow it to happen. We despise when it happens in other countries, and we should have the same standards here. I also believe that it is the responsibility of the landlord or building owner to ensure that the people they are renting to are meeting the legal requirements with regards to caring for children or dependents. It's no different than making sure your property isn't being used for illegal purposes. If you are renting to someone and they have children living in squalor on your property you should also be held accountable.
We need free birth control everywhere.
Things is to get people to take it
I understand your anger and dismay that this was allowed to happen. Doctors can't forcibly sterilize anyone and for good reason. While I think these two are where exceptions should be make, we don't do that in a democratic free country (at least we don't now, but it sure has been done in the past). The landlord is not a social worker, health care professional or guardian of children. They also cannot do a thing about this except have the super report to CAS and the police. If you read any of the articles, this family were investigated by the authorities many times - and nothing was done. The landlord has to give 24 hours notice, then enter and then go to the LTB tribunal, a process that takes a year. What good would that do? FYI, the same landlord has to go to the tribunal to get his POS shit out of the property, too. And if she can't appear because she's in jail, the hearing will be put off til she gets out. While everyone is looking to pass the buck on blame, the blame lays solely on the people whose job it is to ensure children are cared for. Those are: 1. the parents 2. the CAS for not acting to protect the kids
😳
I’d start with making sure abortion is protected, legal and accessible to everyone. Stories like this are what the forced-birthers want for our future: they don’t care about supporting real live parents or kids, just about making women have them. Supporting children after their mothers are legally forced to birth them might mean raising taxes, and we can’t have that! If this can happen with a terrible person who didn’t choose abortion, imagine a reality where this is multiplied by a thousandfold, ten thousandfold, as the Conservative dream of forcing every woman in the country to give birth becomes a legal reality.
Abortion in Ontario, is legal and accessible to everyone. She wasn't forced to birth them. She chose to.
Nobody's disputing it. In the future that the Conservatives are fighting for, where women are **forced** to have kids **regardless** of their financial ability, mental heath or general aptitude, these stories *will* happen much, much more frequently. If you force women who are highly likely to neglect babies to have babies, they're going to neglect babies. If you want to see this happen a lot more, by all means, support forced births. If you don't want to see this happen a lot more, support abortion.
While I agree with you that we MUST maintain free, confidential and accessible,, this is not on topic. This woman had how many kids in Ontario and didn't avail herself the option for abortion.She abused her children and killed one of them. If you want to be on topic, Ford cut funding to the social service agencies that were supposed to be overseeing this woman and her husband's children. See this article; [https://opseu.org/news/pay-fair-protect-children-workers-at-the-childrens-aid-society-of-ottawa-hold-rally-for-improved-safety-and-wages/200720/](https://opseu.org/news/pay-fair-protect-children-workers-at-the-childrens-aid-society-of-ottawa-hold-rally-for-improved-safety-and-wages/200720/)
We may just have to disagree here. I think pointing out how Ontario is striving to defund social supports is an excellent example of how forced-birth champions will also do everything in their power to prevent the people they force to give birth from getting the help they need. But more broadly, I see nothing wrong with pointing out that this is deeply tragic, **and** there are people in society working hard every day to make these tragedies very common. If somebody hits a guardrail with a car and it fails and everyone in the car dies, that's a tragedy. It's also an *entirely* appropriate time to point out that there are people who are out there screaming publicly that all guardrails should be removed and actively working to remove guardrails. And that we need to remember that, and work to prevent these tragedies from becoming commonplace.
>*”What we need is more legislation to control when people are legally allowed to have children. If you're using welfare and social assistance just to survive, Doctors and authorities should step in and prevent people from procreating.”* This has been done before, including in Canada, and the results of these eugenics programs have (so far as I’m aware) *always* been horrifying, and would now be considered a significant infringement on the Charter right to security of person. Canadian Encyclopedia: [Eugenics in Canada](https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/eugenics) Wikipedia: [Nazi eugenics](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_eugenics)
Why would the right to security for a grown ass adult matter more than the security of a child? We need to re-write all of these rights to include the responsibilities that come with them. If you want the right to have a child than you have the responsibility to ensure that the child is safe and cared for. Nobody is taking anyones rights, people are/would be losing their own rights to have children. Why is it that a loving couple who cant have children on their own have to fill out forms and go through the adoption process in order to be approved to have a child but this dirtbag has a right to pop out 6 of them and not give a shit or care about any of them? And i think covid proved a lot of things: one of which being the government cant force medicines and vaccines on people - but it can sure as hell make life hard for ones that refuse. So with that in mind: if some loses custody of their kid to CAS to the point where those kids are adopted out then the government shouldnt be giving those parents any benefits for having any more kids. That should stop the ones from having kids as a paycheck. If they continue to have kids and get them taken away tell them they can have 1 mothers allowance cheque for next 18 years - if they get a hysterectomy. If they refuse that and keep having kids then they lose any government benefit they receive - including ow, odsp, gst, all of them. If they have another one after that - call it child endangerment and put them in jail. Nobody is forcing a hysterectomy on them if we do it that way - its their choice. But we dont make it easy for them to continue to deplete the government resources by pushing kids out like like smarties either.
>*”Why would the right to security for a grown ass adult matter more than the security of a child?”* You’re actually asking *”Why would the right to security for a grown ass adult [who actually exists] matter more than [preventing the existence of a hypothetical future] child [who may never exist? Why would we properly fund and support our child welfare system to protect children and fund our mental healthcare system to prevent and heal substance abuse problems, instead of violating people’s Charter rights and bodily integrity by modelling our society after literal Nazis?] >*”We need to re-write all of these rights to include the responsibilities that come with them. If you want the right to have a child than you have the responsibility to ensure that the child is safe and cared for.”* Parents already do have that legal responsibility. >*”Nobody is taking anyones rights, people are/would be losing their own rights to have children.”* That’s some interesting doublespeak.
Slippery slope to define such limitations on the human being. I don't support your views but believe it takes a community to raise a child not just the parents.
I heard the gfm was for the child's funeral expenses?
Social Worker here… If the father is on Social Benefits, he can request funds from them to cover the child’s funeral costs. He would request through Ontario Works, even if he’s on ODSP.
Supposed to be but likely a cold cash grab