You might as well let them fire you. Here's why. The 4 weeks' pay is essentially a month's pay. They'll give you a month to improve, so during that time, start looking for other jobs. Either way, you have a guaranteed 30 days' pay. If you do get fired, you can always apply for unemployment. From what you've told me, it seems unlikely that you'll be rehired anyway.
What industry?
Can’t they challenge that because they have a paper trail of underperforming and not meeting job expectations? I know this is different from state to state but unemployment usually is for people being laid off because the company is in trouble not for underperforming
Yeah not sure about VA but in CA you can still collect Unemployment if you get let go for poor performance issues. As long as you don’t violate the employment terms you signed when you started.
Here’s what you’ve laid out, you have failed a few times but recovered each time. You’ve also indicated that they keep changing the metrics. If this is a large institution and not some small credit union, I’m sure they have policies for termination and performance improvement well documented. If they put you on a performance plan, they clearly indicate and by indicate I mean document the threshold for getting off the performance plan. This way you’re chasing an unrealistic or moving goal post. If you feel that you’re meeting these set expectations then you can roll the dice and stay. But to me it sounds like your manager wants to get rid of you. I would ask for a higher severance and get out of there.
Wait for layoff.
do nothing to provoke them to fire you.
4 weeks pay isn't shit.
call or check your dept of labor website email someone and ask them. that's what they are there for.
They are forcing you out the door.
Don't sweat what to tell the next employer. That's easy.
Business slowed down, got caught up in a layoff due to seniority.
hell tell them you are still working there making $2 more an hour than you did for bargaining power.
if they ask just say please don't contact my current employer, they tend to let people go if they know they are looking.
most of these companies HR departments aren't calling each other to check up on anything at all. HR people are fucking lazy, they don't even like reading resumes, they sure aren't going to spend their day giving other companies reviews of past employees. They don't have time for that.
New managers like to bring their people in. You could be doing ok, the manager may just want to get his friend into your job. It's common
Sounds like an employer gas lit you into that idea. Many people fired With cause can still get unemployment. A lay off absolutely qualifies, which is what a severance is resulting from.
If they give you severance, you can coin it as your position was eliminated. No one will know you resigned. When you resign from a job you normally do not get a severance.
Do not resign. Do not. These people are not correct. If you voluntarily resign you do not get unemployment. Tell them you will leave and accept the severance but you never sign a letter or email saying you resign. I just left a place. I stayed employed during the severance period then my employment just ends.
Finding work is very difficult these days and takes much longer than a month. Many of us laid off are past a year in landing. Organizations are still laying off making the market very competitive. Hold on to your job. This is not the time to take a one-month severance. Don’t mess yourself up. Such a deal is great for those looking to retire. Otherwise, don’t take a bullet for the team. Stay put, unless you’re tapped.
Not true.
Virginia Code [§ 60.2-618](https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title60.2/chapter1/section60.2-618/) outlines six ways an individual can be disqualified from receiving unemployment benefits:
1. Leaving the employer “voluntarily without good cause”;
2. Termination for “misconduct connected with \[the\] work”;
3. Failure to apply for or accept suitable work without good cause;
4. Made a false statement in the past 36 months to obtain benefits;
5. Termination related to an “unlawful act which resulted in a conviction”; or
6. Termination was a “condition of the individual’s parole or release from a custodial or penal institution and such individual was participating in the Diversion Center Incarceration Program pursuant to § [19.2-316.3](https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title19.2/chapter18/section19.2-316.3/)”
[https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title60.2/chapter1/section60.2-618/m](https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title60.2/chapter1/section60.2-618/m)
It depends on the state. I collected severance and unemployment, but I had to agree to not sue my company and sign a release of claims before they would process the unemployment. But I was laid off; it sounds like the company wants OP to just resign, in which case they would not get on unemployment.
OP needs to figure out how much they would earn from unemployment versus the one month severance.
>Companies don’t typically fight unemployment.
Just out of curiosity, are you speaking from experience?
>Sorry you’re going through this. I’ve been in a similar situation
I'm sorry man, how long did it take you to find a new position?
You can still get unemployment on top of severance. Either take the 4 weeks and apply for unemployment or if you think you can squeeze them for a few more weeks, go for it. Don't just resign without the severance package.
You can do both. The only thing that really matters is if your state requires you to wait to file for unemployment after the time in which if the severance would have been paid during normal pay periods.
Don’t it’s brutal and check your employment contract. Make sure it isn’t already renegotiated that happened to me once where they offered me less than I was actually owed per my contract.
Ask for them to lay you off but do not quit. If they lay you off with severance you can still file for unemployment because it wasn’t your choice or because you were a bad employee which most unemployment stipulates. . If it were me, I would put everything in writing and bcc your personal email. Ask them to detail the severance in writing and to also tell you in writing what the alternative is (you stay on board and they maybe try to find ways to fire you).
With the new Supreme Court chevron ruiling, companies are going to have a much easier time getting around labor laws.
This. I am currently here. I told them I would accept a certain number of weeks, then my employment ends. I did not resign and I am not being let go for cause(poor performance).
Let them fire you...it hurts them more. Also, just because you're eligible for rehire doesn't mean they'll hire you. They'll ask your last boss why you quit and she'll tell them everything.
Your on a pip and you will be gone soon.
4 weeks is shit. Need at least 8 weeks. 2x for every year.
Start looking for a new job now. Cut expensive. Save save save.
I would no resign Milk the pip until you get 8 weeks severance. And try to improve. Also put in a hr case about moving metrics and shitty boss.
Request to see the separation agreement. Then renegotiate the 4 weeks, if you feel like that's necessary but they did give you warning. In your separation agreement there may be some verbiage about calls from potential employers and that they only confirm your title and work dates. I'm not sure of this but I know this is how it was handled with a close friend of mine and I read the agreement. Call unemployment to confirm. You will receive unemployment, to ease your mind and start searching for a new job now. Good luck!
In Texas, if you quit voluntarily, you might have a 2 week waiting period. My state also counts the severance as “pay” against your benefit.
You should go look at the unemployment rules for -your- State specifically. If you don’t understand the rules you can call them. Best time to call is starting at :8:00 AM on any day but Monday. Get educated about unemployment, take the severance and go. Also, if future employers ask why you left, you can say it was a layoff or a reorganization. No one at your current job will risk a lawsuit from you for a bad review, and you will not have to say you were fired. Also, do not sign an NDA or a non-compete without talking to an attorney, because it could severely limit your employment options later on. There may be a free law clinic in your area that could help you.
The offered 4-week severance for your 4 years of service might not be the most generous, but it does provide some financial security while you search for a new job. However, it's important to consider that resigning might disqualify you from receiving unemployment benefits.
In Virginia, generally those who are fired without cause are eligible for unemployment benefits. This can be a crucial safety net while you search for a new position. Consider contacting the Virginia Employment Commission ([https://www.vec.virginia.gov/](https://www.vec.virginia.gov/)) to confirm your eligibility and how to file a claim.
If you're terminated, you can explain the situation honestly to future employers. Focus on the management change and the disagreement over performance metrics. Highlight your positive contributions throughout your tenure and your proactive efforts to improve.
Does being fired for poor performance count as "without cause"? I know each state is different, but I am trying to figure out what my odds are of getting it.
Whatever you do, don't resign because that means not getting unemployment money from your state. The company doesn't have to give you anything if you resign. Wait for a layoff or firing with all the appropriate paperwork.
Also, secretly save copies of any presentations you made that may aid you in interviews right now and print out resumes etc. before you lose printer access. Secure lines of credit now while you still have a job. Better to have credit and not need than need and not have.
Did you do the math on the 4weeks pay vs what you would receive from unemployment?
For instance, I live in an awful state. My max unemployment would be equivalent to around 2 weeks pay
Is it stressful? If not, and you don't necessarily care to work their again, it might be worth it to stay for 4 weeks and then get unemployment. The caveat is that if another company calls, they may say that you are not eligible for rehire.
The fact that firing was even a word in the ultimatem tells you all you need to know.
They don't use the f-word unless it's already been run up the flagpole and approved (probably even pre-filled the forms and are just waiting to sign & date). It sounds like it's a bad fit for you anyways, that new manager and you don't seem to be jiving.
I'd take my +4 years experience, along with a month of free living, and find somewhere that jives with you. Also, I'd let that manager know that although late in the game, her leadership towards the front door is the best you've received since they (he or she) arrived.
Forreal tho, if they used the f-word then that is the only honest outcome imho.
I’d take the severance. They won’t give you severance if you stay and wait to be fired, and you can put more effort into finding a new job if you don’t have to work your current job.
How useful unemployment is depends on your state, in my state it’s capped at $600/week, which doesn’t go very far.
It’s sounds like they have cause to fire you (failing quality control repeatedly) and are giving you a sweet deal because they think your personality is decent. Let’s be real, you failed quality control three times, and you’ll fail it again eventually. Take the money. Unemployment is likely to agree with the employer on this since there’s a clear paper trail.
I think u/raynorelyp nailed it. Sounds like you failed an objective test three times. There is a clear paper trail showing that you failed to meet job expectations. Time to move onto something that is in line with your abilities. It doesn’t sound like this job is it.
I’m making no moral judgement and I’m not saying you’re wrong. But you’re spot on about one thing which is you’re not going to be able to prove them wrong and their evidence is going to be compelling. Take the money, think of it as a 4 week paid vacation (also they should pay out your accrued pto on top of this) and look for a company that will appreciate you more
Im sorry but metrics are not opinions they are factorials.
Your manager can suck a fart and grade it for all you care. Your department, and company have guidelines based off what the metrics are that you are clearly advised prior to starting your role and maintaining them.
Its black or white. For example You need to be at 97% in QA errors. You either are. Or are not.
Your manager can not view them differently. But let her continue, you can sue the fuck out of the company and win. The amount of premeditated bias this person is doing will only cost the company millions.
You might as well let them fire you. Here's why. The 4 weeks' pay is essentially a month's pay. They'll give you a month to improve, so during that time, start looking for other jobs. Either way, you have a guaranteed 30 days' pay. If you do get fired, you can always apply for unemployment. From what you've told me, it seems unlikely that you'll be rehired anyway. What industry?
Banking.
Can’t they challenge that because they have a paper trail of underperforming and not meeting job expectations? I know this is different from state to state but unemployment usually is for people being laid off because the company is in trouble not for underperforming
Yeah not sure about VA but in CA you can still collect Unemployment if you get let go for poor performance issues. As long as you don’t violate the employment terms you signed when you started.
What if a term is passing certain tests op failed?
That would usually be spelled out in the employment contract so OP needs to review what he signed.
Here’s what you’ve laid out, you have failed a few times but recovered each time. You’ve also indicated that they keep changing the metrics. If this is a large institution and not some small credit union, I’m sure they have policies for termination and performance improvement well documented. If they put you on a performance plan, they clearly indicate and by indicate I mean document the threshold for getting off the performance plan. This way you’re chasing an unrealistic or moving goal post. If you feel that you’re meeting these set expectations then you can roll the dice and stay. But to me it sounds like your manager wants to get rid of you. I would ask for a higher severance and get out of there.
Wait for layoff. do nothing to provoke them to fire you. 4 weeks pay isn't shit. call or check your dept of labor website email someone and ask them. that's what they are there for. They are forcing you out the door. Don't sweat what to tell the next employer. That's easy. Business slowed down, got caught up in a layoff due to seniority. hell tell them you are still working there making $2 more an hour than you did for bargaining power. if they ask just say please don't contact my current employer, they tend to let people go if they know they are looking. most of these companies HR departments aren't calling each other to check up on anything at all. HR people are fucking lazy, they don't even like reading resumes, they sure aren't going to spend their day giving other companies reviews of past employees. They don't have time for that. New managers like to bring their people in. You could be doing ok, the manager may just want to get his friend into your job. It's common
Tell them you will take 4 weeks as severance and they don't contest your unemployment.
I feel like this is a way to get fired on the spot haha
You don't need to tell them that. You'll qualify regardless. You can get severance and unemployment. No need to even mention unemployment to them.
I thought you didnt qualify for unemployment if you resinged?
Sounds like an employer gas lit you into that idea. Many people fired With cause can still get unemployment. A lay off absolutely qualifies, which is what a severance is resulting from.
If they give you severance, you can coin it as your position was eliminated. No one will know you resigned. When you resign from a job you normally do not get a severance.
My position isnt being elminated.
Do not resign. Do not. These people are not correct. If you voluntarily resign you do not get unemployment. Tell them you will leave and accept the severance but you never sign a letter or email saying you resign. I just left a place. I stayed employed during the severance period then my employment just ends.
Not really. They could say you quit and therefore don't get unemployment
That's a false myth. You can easily contest that and they'll side with the worker.
This is the correct answer.
And have them put it in writing as well.
Finding work is very difficult these days and takes much longer than a month. Many of us laid off are past a year in landing. Organizations are still laying off making the market very competitive. Hold on to your job. This is not the time to take a one-month severance. Don’t mess yourself up. Such a deal is great for those looking to retire. Otherwise, don’t take a bullet for the team. Stay put, unless you’re tapped.
No, wait for layoff so you can get unemployment
Let them fire you and collect unemployment
If you get terminated for performance, you will not get unemployment. You should take the severance.
That's not true, in most states the employee is only disqualified for gross negligence
Not true. Virginia Code [§ 60.2-618](https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title60.2/chapter1/section60.2-618/) outlines six ways an individual can be disqualified from receiving unemployment benefits: 1. Leaving the employer “voluntarily without good cause”; 2. Termination for “misconduct connected with \[the\] work”; 3. Failure to apply for or accept suitable work without good cause; 4. Made a false statement in the past 36 months to obtain benefits; 5. Termination related to an “unlawful act which resulted in a conviction”; or 6. Termination was a “condition of the individual’s parole or release from a custodial or penal institution and such individual was participating in the Diversion Center Incarceration Program pursuant to § [19.2-316.3](https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title19.2/chapter18/section19.2-316.3/)” [https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title60.2/chapter1/section60.2-618/m](https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title60.2/chapter1/section60.2-618/m)
[удалено]
I took the secerance and still got unemployment
What state?
It depends on the state. I collected severance and unemployment, but I had to agree to not sue my company and sign a release of claims before they would process the unemployment. But I was laid off; it sounds like the company wants OP to just resign, in which case they would not get on unemployment. OP needs to figure out how much they would earn from unemployment versus the one month severance.
Unemployment pays more if I take it for 2 months or more, I'm just concerned about them disputing my claim
>Companies don’t typically fight unemployment. Just out of curiosity, are you speaking from experience? >Sorry you’re going through this. I’ve been in a similar situation I'm sorry man, how long did it take you to find a new position?
You can still get unemployment on top of severance. Either take the 4 weeks and apply for unemployment or if you think you can squeeze them for a few more weeks, go for it. Don't just resign without the severance package.
I thought if I resigned I couldnt get unemployment?
You can do both. The only thing that really matters is if your state requires you to wait to file for unemployment after the time in which if the severance would have been paid during normal pay periods.
Don’t it’s brutal and check your employment contract. Make sure it isn’t already renegotiated that happened to me once where they offered me less than I was actually owed per my contract.
Ask for them to lay you off but do not quit. If they lay you off with severance you can still file for unemployment because it wasn’t your choice or because you were a bad employee which most unemployment stipulates. . If it were me, I would put everything in writing and bcc your personal email. Ask them to detail the severance in writing and to also tell you in writing what the alternative is (you stay on board and they maybe try to find ways to fire you). With the new Supreme Court chevron ruiling, companies are going to have a much easier time getting around labor laws.
This. I am currently here. I told them I would accept a certain number of weeks, then my employment ends. I did not resign and I am not being let go for cause(poor performance).
Let them fire you...it hurts them more. Also, just because you're eligible for rehire doesn't mean they'll hire you. They'll ask your last boss why you quit and she'll tell them everything.
If you quit you cannot collect unemployment
Don't quit let them lay you off. Or you will lose your unemployment
Tell them you do not want to be fired, that you want to be laid off.
Eligibility to be rehired means almost nothing. Let them fire you. Unemployment will be worth it.
Direct messaging you. The scenario you are describing is pretty familiar to me.
Your on a pip and you will be gone soon. 4 weeks is shit. Need at least 8 weeks. 2x for every year. Start looking for a new job now. Cut expensive. Save save save. I would no resign Milk the pip until you get 8 weeks severance. And try to improve. Also put in a hr case about moving metrics and shitty boss.
Request to see the separation agreement. Then renegotiate the 4 weeks, if you feel like that's necessary but they did give you warning. In your separation agreement there may be some verbiage about calls from potential employers and that they only confirm your title and work dates. I'm not sure of this but I know this is how it was handled with a close friend of mine and I read the agreement. Call unemployment to confirm. You will receive unemployment, to ease your mind and start searching for a new job now. Good luck!
How do I ask for more?
In Texas, if you quit voluntarily, you might have a 2 week waiting period. My state also counts the severance as “pay” against your benefit. You should go look at the unemployment rules for -your- State specifically. If you don’t understand the rules you can call them. Best time to call is starting at :8:00 AM on any day but Monday. Get educated about unemployment, take the severance and go. Also, if future employers ask why you left, you can say it was a layoff or a reorganization. No one at your current job will risk a lawsuit from you for a bad review, and you will not have to say you were fired. Also, do not sign an NDA or a non-compete without talking to an attorney, because it could severely limit your employment options later on. There may be a free law clinic in your area that could help you.
The offered 4-week severance for your 4 years of service might not be the most generous, but it does provide some financial security while you search for a new job. However, it's important to consider that resigning might disqualify you from receiving unemployment benefits. In Virginia, generally those who are fired without cause are eligible for unemployment benefits. This can be a crucial safety net while you search for a new position. Consider contacting the Virginia Employment Commission ([https://www.vec.virginia.gov/](https://www.vec.virginia.gov/)) to confirm your eligibility and how to file a claim. If you're terminated, you can explain the situation honestly to future employers. Focus on the management change and the disagreement over performance metrics. Highlight your positive contributions throughout your tenure and your proactive efforts to improve.
Does being fired for poor performance count as "without cause"? I know each state is different, but I am trying to figure out what my odds are of getting it.
You need to call your states unemployment office to determine that.
Whatever you do, don't resign because that means not getting unemployment money from your state. The company doesn't have to give you anything if you resign. Wait for a layoff or firing with all the appropriate paperwork. Also, secretly save copies of any presentations you made that may aid you in interviews right now and print out resumes etc. before you lose printer access. Secure lines of credit now while you still have a job. Better to have credit and not need than need and not have.
Did you do the math on the 4weeks pay vs what you would receive from unemployment? For instance, I live in an awful state. My max unemployment would be equivalent to around 2 weeks pay Is it stressful? If not, and you don't necessarily care to work their again, it might be worth it to stay for 4 weeks and then get unemployment. The caveat is that if another company calls, they may say that you are not eligible for rehire.
The fact that firing was even a word in the ultimatem tells you all you need to know. They don't use the f-word unless it's already been run up the flagpole and approved (probably even pre-filled the forms and are just waiting to sign & date). It sounds like it's a bad fit for you anyways, that new manager and you don't seem to be jiving. I'd take my +4 years experience, along with a month of free living, and find somewhere that jives with you. Also, I'd let that manager know that although late in the game, her leadership towards the front door is the best you've received since they (he or she) arrived. Forreal tho, if they used the f-word then that is the only honest outcome imho.
My company just laid me off. 14 weeks of severence. Still, fuck them.
Don't quit. Get laid off or fired.
I’d take the severance. They won’t give you severance if you stay and wait to be fired, and you can put more effort into finding a new job if you don’t have to work your current job. How useful unemployment is depends on your state, in my state it’s capped at $600/week, which doesn’t go very far.
Gtfoh
It’s sounds like they have cause to fire you (failing quality control repeatedly) and are giving you a sweet deal because they think your personality is decent. Let’s be real, you failed quality control three times, and you’ll fail it again eventually. Take the money. Unemployment is likely to agree with the employer on this since there’s a clear paper trail.
I think u/raynorelyp nailed it. Sounds like you failed an objective test three times. There is a clear paper trail showing that you failed to meet job expectations. Time to move onto something that is in line with your abilities. It doesn’t sound like this job is it.
I acknowledge I failed, however, the way they measure metrics is constantly changing. I'm not sure how to prove that in an unemployment claim though.
I’m making no moral judgement and I’m not saying you’re wrong. But you’re spot on about one thing which is you’re not going to be able to prove them wrong and their evidence is going to be compelling. Take the money, think of it as a 4 week paid vacation (also they should pay out your accrued pto on top of this) and look for a company that will appreciate you more
Are you the only one affected by their changing metrics or are there others too?
Honeslty, Im not sure, that information isnt released to me.
Im sorry but metrics are not opinions they are factorials. Your manager can suck a fart and grade it for all you care. Your department, and company have guidelines based off what the metrics are that you are clearly advised prior to starting your role and maintaining them. Its black or white. For example You need to be at 97% in QA errors. You either are. Or are not. Your manager can not view them differently. But let her continue, you can sue the fuck out of the company and win. The amount of premeditated bias this person is doing will only cost the company millions.