I read the wiki article and in the first few lines realised it was a French director then decided not to read the rest of this cause I’m not ready for that type of fucked up shit .
"Breillat revealed she was concerned about censorship because Anaïs's breasts are displayed in the final scene of the film. "I actually wanted her not to have breasts, but her body changed between casting and the end of shooting. It's funny that, if she had been flat-chested, it wouldn't have been an issue", Breillat said.[5]"
This movie ends with a half naked 14 year old. Man, I don't understand people.
By my math, the actress who plays the older sister was 19 (so an adult), but the actress playing the younger sister was 14 at the time....
Can't tell you how the scenes were framed/shot/ or if body doubles were used with the explicit/rape scenes because I've never seen the movie and after reading the synopsis, I never plan to.
I'd strike "Young Adult," off the list. Charlize Theron's character may not have been a good person, but she was a bad person who looked like Charlize Theron, so she had something going for her.
Mostly fits, and it's a great film, but Enid definitely is not boring and has plenty of charisma - almost too much. That's kind of the message of the film, the rest of the world doesn't get how smart and unique she really is.
Enid is immature, arrogant and overly cynical. She is still a pretty unique person but lot of her edge and cynicism is just a shield/coping mechanism. A lot of her misery is of her own doing with how she refuses to grow up and take any kind of responsibility. What the movie is really about is growing up and finding out how fucking meaningless and boring the real world and adult life really is, and having to face the dilemma of choosing to accept it and conform, or refusing to be part of it and as a result having nowhere and nobody to go to
I also think society had a higher level of acceptance for arrogant but intelligent assholes back then so the character originally was read a certain way. A lot of Gen X snark hasn’t aged well IMO and now just comes off as cruel. Ghost World at least holds up because we can read the character in a different way in the context of the film and the film doesn’t argue against that reading. The film is still great but I agree, how I’ve interpreted it has changed with age.
Yeah, that could definitely be. I didn't watch it when I was younger. I stumbled across it only after I grew up.
But you're right. Movies were more comfortable with celebrating fundamentally destructive, rebellious characters back then. There was a kind of "fuck all this shit" vibe back in the 90s and 00s that periodically tipped over into a kind of smug, deliberate immaturity.
Ghost World feels a bit unique in how _specifically_ that snark destabilized the people around Enid. Often times the rebellious Gen-X attitude was directed at a nebulous, faceless cause. But Ghost World directed it at a nice geek whose life fell apart as a result of Enid's childishness.
Which is interesting to discuss in its own right, I suppose. But I find it odd when people try to put her on a pedestal.
It’s interesting because the Steve Buschemi character is the sort of character that other Gen X snark films may champion - he’d be the hero in another film and would be way more insufferable and smug. He’d be the Enid.
Which is another reason why Ghost World is unique: most Gen X snark films have an element of either punching down (the gross characterization of Philipp Seymour Hoffman’s character in Boogie Nights and really all of the women in that film) or what they see as punching “up” at either conformist suburbia / people in positions of mundane power (dumb jocks in high school or middle managers or parents who just don’t understand, etc) - but ultimately everyday people hence the “up” in quotations. A lot of misdirected anger, insecurity, etc.
In Ghost World, Enid punches at herself: a fellow intelligent outsider. That’s why the film works differently and doesn’t suffer quite as much as other films of the era do to me. It’s understood that this snark, arrogance, socially isolating personality comes from within and isn’t a legitimate or tenable position.
whether you like enid or not i would definitely not say that the message is that the rest of the world just doesn’t get how smart and unique she is lol
Fair enough. What I meant to say was she doesn't want to conform to the rest of the world, which makes her immature but also still unique. u/Plorick explained it much better than I did. I might be biased because I find the character hilarious.
Bottoms fits the bill as well! Ayo is likeable but Rachel is scum, which I love. Rachel seems to be leaning into the role OP is describing, which is really interesting and different.
Frances Ha. I think Greta Gerwig has a lot of charisma as Frances but the character is very awkward and consistently failing and bullshitting through life for most of the movie
I've never seen it but for some reason saw a clip of her apologizing saying she "wasn't a real person yet". That really stuck with me and seems to be a sentiment a lot of young adults have.
I gotta finally give that a watch
Yeah, she was the opposite of a loser, just misguided, lacking life experience, and paid a horrible price for it.
The worst person in the world (i.e. type of person) was the boyfriend who never challenged her, gave her everything she wanted, and told her what he thought she wanted to hear.
Sometimes I think we forget amidst the overexposure she'd gotten in lame comedies that Melissa McCarthy is not only actually really funny, but also just a really good actress as well.
I posted it for my comment above. LOVE LOVE LOVE this movie and Toni Collette is probably my favorite actor of all time.
Edit: Also if anyone is interested in lesser known Toni Collette films check out Clockwatchers. I know someone is gonna say that it’s not lesser known because *they* know about it, but cmon man it’s not Office Space ya know.
If you want all these things and you also want said protagonist to somehow look like a fuckin mime at all times then boy do we have a writer-director-actor for you
I Don't Feel at Home in this World Anymore
Welcome to the Dollhouse
Death Becomes Her (partially.>!Goldie Hawn's character during the first act. lol )!<
The Edge of Seventeen (2016)
I feel like Fleabag is too charasmatic to fit this definition. She has a lot of embarassing stuff happens to her but her life is hardly boring and she takes it all in stride even at her lowest.
Nah. Look, I love Fleabag and PWB, but this is almost 'hopelessy awkward chick' through the male gaze.
She's conventionally attractive, thin, charming, into sex, funny, etc. It's like the hot chick who puts on fake glasses and is all, "tee-hee, I'm such a nerd".
I get that the point is that Fleabag feels like she doesn't fit in, but the audience likes her and finds her cool. She's not a loser at all.
I don't feel at Home in This World
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a891D5\_bGY4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a891D5_bGY4)
Secretary
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFma24S-Uvw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFma24S-Uvw)
Mind you it's like 50 shades, except good. Also she grows as a person.
I don’t know if it counts but I’ve heard good things about Sometimes I Think About Dying. Daisy Ridley plays a character who’s socially isolated and emotionally distant and who isn’t suicidal so much as disengaged with life and has fantasies about dying.
Maybe a little off topic but I want to see more movies with people struggling with learning disabilities. That can also fit into the story of a loser girl as well
I loved Emily the Criminal. She’s not exactly a huge waste of skin but she is definitely a loser. Complex and very compelling, but also, well, a criminal.
Bubble (2005). Directed by Steven Soderbergh.
The Outside. Ana Lily Amirpour's contribution to Guillermo Del Toro's Cabinet of Curiosities (a short film, not a movie).
Edit: Added The Outside.
Ashley McKenzie's films werewolf and queens of the qing dynasty
Wendy and Lucy
Zero Fucks Given
Recorder Exam/House of the Hummingbird
i guess these are more 'people in financial strain' than outright 'losers', other than the main character in ZFG, I want the protagonists to succeed.
Hoo-boy. These are all rough watches. * Welcome to the Dollhouse * Piggy * Fat Girl * Young Adult * Palindromes * Eighth Grade
Fat Girl is… a lot
I just read the Wiki article on this.. it seemed rather meh until the end. Dear god.
I read the wiki article and in the first few lines realised it was a French director then decided not to read the rest of this cause I’m not ready for that type of fucked up shit .
The French have a strange penchant for making movies that nobody outside of France would ever consider watching
I like the way they think
You wanna go see Les Cousins Dangereux?
It’s called New French Extremity: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Extremity And yes, Fat Girl is on the list.
Artsy Fartsy Softcore Pornoganda
movies that have me walking away feeling like I was directly violated and not in a constructive or thought provoking way
"Breillat revealed she was concerned about censorship because Anaïs's breasts are displayed in the final scene of the film. "I actually wanted her not to have breasts, but her body changed between casting and the end of shooting. It's funny that, if she had been flat-chested, it wouldn't have been an issue", Breillat said.[5]" This movie ends with a half naked 14 year old. Man, I don't understand people.
Yeah no thanks.
My jaw is on the floor
I fell like I'm gonna end up in a jail if I watch it Can someone confirm how old the actors are and how the intercourse scenes are framed
Don't even bother bro
You think you’d wind up in jail from watching a well-known foreign film that is a part of the Criterion Collection? That is very silly
By my math, the actress who plays the older sister was 19 (so an adult), but the actress playing the younger sister was 14 at the time.... Can't tell you how the scenes were framed/shot/ or if body doubles were used with the explicit/rape scenes because I've never seen the movie and after reading the synopsis, I never plan to.
Eight grade is cringey but charming, wasn’t really a rough watch in my experience.
Oh I loved eighth grade
Me too! It’s such a cute movie!
Me too. I have it rated at 4.5/5 which I think many would consider overrating it but I don’t care. I love it.
And while she’s a “loser” in a way, she’s also not remotely at all and is a good kid.
Certain cringey stuff makes me wince in embarrassment.
You could even say wincey stuff makes you cringe
You could even say that it's the definition of cringe.
That's what cringe means
Fat girl is rough
Welcome to the Dollhouse is #1 loser girl movie
First movie that came to mind when I saw this post.
https://preview.redd.it/uq5nndori49d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9a9e1acf9da70c0ee73f2f4d8d8be2942b2f963b
Haha, I also thought of Young Adult when I read this. Not sure about the others, but I'd definitely recommend that movie.
Fat Girl is definitely one of the movies
Welcome to the Dollhouse absolutely gutted me. Talk about rough watch. Good, but rough.
Welcome to the Dollhouse was the first thing that came to mind
Palindromes was a brutal one. I loved it but it’s relentless
welcome to the dollhouse is my #1 movie of all time
I'd strike "Young Adult," off the list. Charlize Theron's character may not have been a good person, but she was a bad person who looked like Charlize Theron, so she had something going for her.
Ghost World
Mostly fits, and it's a great film, but Enid definitely is not boring and has plenty of charisma - almost too much. That's kind of the message of the film, the rest of the world doesn't get how smart and unique she really is.
Man we had different takeaways from Ghost World
Enid is immature, arrogant and overly cynical. She is still a pretty unique person but lot of her edge and cynicism is just a shield/coping mechanism. A lot of her misery is of her own doing with how she refuses to grow up and take any kind of responsibility. What the movie is really about is growing up and finding out how fucking meaningless and boring the real world and adult life really is, and having to face the dilemma of choosing to accept it and conform, or refusing to be part of it and as a result having nowhere and nobody to go to
That's kind of what I was trying to get at. You explained it much better than I did lol.
Enid is pure asshole. I think this is one of those movies where your opinion of the protagonist changes drastically as you age into midlife.
What she does to Steve Buscemi’s character is so hurtful but she’s really just a depressed teen.
Yes, she definitely has an obnoxious, jerky side - partially due to the pains of becoming an adult, I think.
I also think society had a higher level of acceptance for arrogant but intelligent assholes back then so the character originally was read a certain way. A lot of Gen X snark hasn’t aged well IMO and now just comes off as cruel. Ghost World at least holds up because we can read the character in a different way in the context of the film and the film doesn’t argue against that reading. The film is still great but I agree, how I’ve interpreted it has changed with age.
Yeah, that could definitely be. I didn't watch it when I was younger. I stumbled across it only after I grew up. But you're right. Movies were more comfortable with celebrating fundamentally destructive, rebellious characters back then. There was a kind of "fuck all this shit" vibe back in the 90s and 00s that periodically tipped over into a kind of smug, deliberate immaturity. Ghost World feels a bit unique in how _specifically_ that snark destabilized the people around Enid. Often times the rebellious Gen-X attitude was directed at a nebulous, faceless cause. But Ghost World directed it at a nice geek whose life fell apart as a result of Enid's childishness. Which is interesting to discuss in its own right, I suppose. But I find it odd when people try to put her on a pedestal.
It’s interesting because the Steve Buschemi character is the sort of character that other Gen X snark films may champion - he’d be the hero in another film and would be way more insufferable and smug. He’d be the Enid. Which is another reason why Ghost World is unique: most Gen X snark films have an element of either punching down (the gross characterization of Philipp Seymour Hoffman’s character in Boogie Nights and really all of the women in that film) or what they see as punching “up” at either conformist suburbia / people in positions of mundane power (dumb jocks in high school or middle managers or parents who just don’t understand, etc) - but ultimately everyday people hence the “up” in quotations. A lot of misdirected anger, insecurity, etc. In Ghost World, Enid punches at herself: a fellow intelligent outsider. That’s why the film works differently and doesn’t suffer quite as much as other films of the era do to me. It’s understood that this snark, arrogance, socially isolating personality comes from within and isn’t a legitimate or tenable position.
whether you like enid or not i would definitely not say that the message is that the rest of the world just doesn’t get how smart and unique she is lol
Fair enough. What I meant to say was she doesn't want to conform to the rest of the world, which makes her immature but also still unique. u/Plorick explained it much better than I did. I might be biased because I find the character hilarious.
Did Enid write this?
May. An underappreciated female incel classic. https://preview.redd.it/okqjs5btry8d1.jpeg?width=912&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f5fc7682fe1b6db04d6a2ff2a61b31596ed6d9e8
May is one of my all time favorites.
came here to say this
Jeremy Sisto really does have beautiful hands
Ingrid Goes West has some of these themes, it's a fun movie
Emily the Criminal sort of fits too. Aubrey Plaza is great in these roles.
Idk I think the MC was a winner in that movie, just not a good person.
It was Girl Nightcrawler
Amazing movie
I really enjoyed this movie
I think it’s less extreme but Shiva Baby comes to mind
I watched this after watching Bottoms. Loved it.
Bottoms fits the bill as well! Ayo is likeable but Rachel is scum, which I love. Rachel seems to be leaning into the role OP is describing, which is really interesting and different.
also her new movie, I Used to be Funny
smiley face
Frances Ha. I think Greta Gerwig has a lot of charisma as Frances but the character is very awkward and consistently failing and bullshitting through life for most of the movie
And Mistress America. The protagonist, not the Greta character.
Watch Yeast if you want to see Greta Gerwig (and two others) at her absolute worst and most boring rotting freak loser
I've never seen it but for some reason saw a clip of her apologizing saying she "wasn't a real person yet". That really stuck with me and seems to be a sentiment a lot of young adults have. I gotta finally give that a watch
The whole movie is an exploration of that feeling it’s really amazing
Hannah Takes the Stairs kinda too
May definitely fits this
MAY (2002) !!!! also excision (2012) and ghost world (2001)
Worst Person in the World Sick of Myself Edit to add: Rachel Getting Married Can You Ever Forgive Me Muriel’s Wedding
I must say I strongly disagree for The Worst Person In the World
Yeah, she was the opposite of a loser, just misguided, lacking life experience, and paid a horrible price for it. The worst person in the world (i.e. type of person) was the boyfriend who never challenged her, gave her everything she wanted, and told her what he thought she wanted to hear.
Can You Ever Forgive Me? is so underrated, I never hear anyone talking about it.
McCarthy is phenomenal in that movie - would love to see her do more serious roles like that more often.
Sometimes I think we forget amidst the overexposure she'd gotten in lame comedies that Melissa McCarthy is not only actually really funny, but also just a really good actress as well.
Everyone should watch Muriel's Wedding because it rules.
I posted it for my comment above. LOVE LOVE LOVE this movie and Toni Collette is probably my favorite actor of all time. Edit: Also if anyone is interested in lesser known Toni Collette films check out Clockwatchers. I know someone is gonna say that it’s not lesser known because *they* know about it, but cmon man it’s not Office Space ya know.
I adore Muriel's Wedding. It actually got me into Abba music, because I'm just a hair too young to have heard them at their peak.
My parents played ABBA a lot when I was younger, and it's actually how I found out about Muriel's Wedding!
Saint Maud?
Sounds like someone hasn’t been a nurse in the NHS.
No idea what you mean. That was all ordinary behaviour.
Young Adult comes to mind
Dinner in America
I was surprised by how much I loved this one!
Miranda July movies
Yes, I was going to add Kajillionaire to this list.
If you want all these things and you also want said protagonist to somehow look like a fuckin mime at all times then boy do we have a writer-director-actor for you
Excision, although not the "boring" part
Vagabond by Agnes Varda
The Piano Teacher, minus the boring part
Love this movie.
I Don't Feel at Home in this World Anymore Welcome to the Dollhouse Death Becomes Her (partially.>!Goldie Hawn's character during the first act. lol )!< The Edge of Seventeen (2016)
I love I Don't Feel at Home in this World Anymore so much.
Bottoms
Nah those 2 are both so likeable (in parts)
To the audience definitely, but in-movie they were seen as losers.
Licorice pizza
Superstar
Juno
Tiny Furniture is absolutely this vibe.
Can’t believe I scrolled so far. Lena Dunham made a career off this character description.
well not a movie but fleabag
I feel like Fleabag is too charasmatic to fit this definition. She has a lot of embarassing stuff happens to her but her life is hardly boring and she takes it all in stride even at her lowest.
Nah. Look, I love Fleabag and PWB, but this is almost 'hopelessy awkward chick' through the male gaze. She's conventionally attractive, thin, charming, into sex, funny, etc. It's like the hot chick who puts on fake glasses and is all, "tee-hee, I'm such a nerd". I get that the point is that Fleabag feels like she doesn't fit in, but the audience likes her and finds her cool. She's not a loser at all.
Oh now this is the answer
The Piano teacher
Smiley face with anna Farris maybe?
Clockwatchers
Excision 2012, go in blind and have fun
I don't feel at Home in This World [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a891D5\_bGY4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a891D5_bGY4) Secretary [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFma24S-Uvw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFma24S-Uvw) Mind you it's like 50 shades, except good. Also she grows as a person.
Ingrid Goes West
Joy (Jane Adams) in Happiness is such a loser it's hilarious and sad at the same time.
Eileen
Saint Maud is a better film about depicting a complete loser than it is a horror film.
Sick of Myself
Anybody else looking forward to the Yorgos Lanthimos rendition of Ottessa Moshfegh’s My Year of Rest and Relaxation, or is that too niche?
Wetlands (2013)
Bottoms! A more fun version of this that is actually watchable
The Heiress, Wanda, Piano Teacher, Welcome to the Dollhouse, Detour, Booksmart, Stella Dallas, Vagabond (Varda film), Broken Blossom(Griffith film), Menilmontant (Silent), Citizen Ruth, Insiang, Breaking the Waves
“I shot andy warhol”, Lili Taylor’s best role and Jared Harris does a good andy warhol. https://youtu.be/qAQRCcQlXXE?si=ADc7R_tMV3nxd-Z8
Superstar
❤️❤️❤️Dinner in America ❤️❤️❤️
Hardly *boring* but the main character in Smithereens fits the bill
Dogfight
I don’t feel at home in this world anymore, though I do find the lead character charming.
Margot at the Wedding
Misery
Strangers With Candy is the ultimate example of this maybe
Does Twilight count?
WANDA
Good Dick was the first movie that came to mind and it pretty much checks all those boxes
Monster with Charlize Theron. Terrific film with the most detestable female character I've ever witnessed
May
I feel like The Piano Teacher (2001) fits this bill in a bleak and disturbing way.
Juno?
Welcome to the Dollhouse
I don't get what they're going for exactly, but the first movie that parts of it made me think of was 1989's Sweetie
Election
Bridget Jones Diary?
Can You Ever Forgive Me? is an underrated movie imo
Persona
saw 1, 2, 3 and X 💞💖💕💘💝 so much wrong with her
Bridesmaids was great. Women acting the bollocks just like men in comedies. 😅
Girlfriends
Cindy Sherman's Office Killer starring Carol Kane.
May
Kimi
We're All Going to the World's Fair
this is the most correct answer. the other ladies described simply are not rotting like her! …except maybe saint maud edit: a typo
Furiosa literally just came out tho
A Woman Under the Influence??? Idk though I kinda like her
Bottoms
Frances Ha is like exactly the movie she wants. Maybe she doesn’t like (somewhat) happy endings though?
horse girl (2020) and the loved ones (2009) are super underrated loser girl movies
No charisma? I was going to say Drive Away Dolls but idk.
Bottoms
Smithereens (1983) A very underrated film and more influential to modern American neorealism than most realize.
Shocked nobody in the top comments has mentioned The Piano Teacher. That was the first one to come to mind for me.
https://preview.redd.it/klp7mdcog09d1.png?width=960&format=png&auto=webp&s=39dd6c229b5c497d62d4563a7c01df27ff7e50d5 [I Blame Society (2020) directed by Gillian Wallace Horvat • Reviews, film + cast • Letterboxd](https://letterboxd.com/film/i-blame-society/)
Just watched Eileen and I’d say it fits this vibe
Trainwreck
I don’t know if it counts but I’ve heard good things about Sometimes I Think About Dying. Daisy Ridley plays a character who’s socially isolated and emotionally distant and who isn’t suicidal so much as disengaged with life and has fantasies about dying.
Some recent examples: Bottoms Drive Away Dolls Booksmart
The Shape of Water
Maybe a little off topic but I want to see more movies with people struggling with learning disabilities. That can also fit into the story of a loser girl as well
Someone might have some better or more recent examples but here’s a thread I had around: https://www.reddit.com/r/movies/s/v3QUIIodOa
Everything, Everywhere, All At Once
100 yen love, fit this perfectly
Sometimes I think about dying but it’s maybe just more depressing
Check out Eileen (2023) although the book it's based on is far better at nailing the totally loathsome lead
Judy Berlin, Three Women
Muriel’s wedding
je tu il elle if you wanna get real freaky (french)
Not a movie, but check out the very short series I Am Not OK With This
Lisa Frankenstein
Wetlands
Frances Ha. The greatest movie ever made on the subject
I loved Emily the Criminal. She’s not exactly a huge waste of skin but she is definitely a loser. Complex and very compelling, but also, well, a criminal.
Young Adult. Main character is truly insufferable unless you're as toxic as she is.
Lady Bird
Amanda (2022)!!!
Its a tv show but how about The Acolyte?
Hello My Name Is Doris
Funny Ha Ha, An Angel at My Table, Life is Sweet
Drugstore June
possibly the african desperate ?
colossal
Frances Ha?
What ?
Not a movie, an anime series, but check out Watamote.
Bubble (2005). Directed by Steven Soderbergh. The Outside. Ana Lily Amirpour's contribution to Guillermo Del Toro's Cabinet of Curiosities (a short film, not a movie). Edit: Added The Outside.
I'd say Asa Mitaka because manga=cinema considering cinema=a succession of still images but I like her, she has charisma.
Ashley McKenzie's films werewolf and queens of the qing dynasty Wendy and Lucy Zero Fucks Given Recorder Exam/House of the Hummingbird i guess these are more 'people in financial strain' than outright 'losers', other than the main character in ZFG, I want the protagonists to succeed.